Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1096 | Jase & Al Investigate the Mysterious Lights Hovering Over Zach’s Place

Episode Date: May 22, 2025

Zach spots a bizarre stream of lights in the North Carolina sky during a blackout and wonders if he’s witnessing an alien invasion—but the night takes a holy turn when Jill hosts a flashlight-lit baptism in their backyard pool. Jase and Al explore the trap laid for Jesus in John 8, where a woman caught in adultery is brought before him, and unpack the tension between grace, truth, and judgment. The guys explore what it means to walk in the light—and why every knee will bow when the true light appears. In this episode: John 7, verse 53–John 8, verse 11; Deuteronomy 22, verse 22; Matthew 5, verses 27–30; Romans 8, verses 1–11; John 3, verses 16–21; 1 John 3, verses 8–10 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So welcome back to Unashamed. We are back in our boxes, as I like to say. Jason, what did you say? Jason has a Trinitarian feel to it when we're separate. We're separate and yet we're one. We're in three places, but we're also together doing the Unashamed podcast. I would have not made that heretical joke. Just just, just, just, just, We just want to lay that out there. It was a joke. It was not, we're not claiming we're God.

Well, quite the opposite. That's why I said we all have a Trinitarian feel. It is true. In our belief, well, but our problem is our three aspects are me, myself, and I. Yeah. True. Which causes a lot of problems in life. So if you get that times three is my point.

Yeah, that's a problem. Zach, you were telling us before we came on, you had, we have a lot of experiences this last week to talk about before we get rolling today. We were finally going to get back to John 8 today. It's going to happen. So I'm going to make sure that. But before we do, there are some things that happen. Well, we don't have to get into everything. But I do have a story that I'll tell you that I'd love to get your thoughts on because I'm not a conspiracy theory guy.

Let me just start by saying that. Like, I'm the opposite of that. I don't buy into a lot of them. I'm very cynical when it comes to conspiracy theories. But I had a moment this weekend where I thought this might be an alien invasion. Really? Oh, boy. Does this have anything to do with Bigfoot?

No, no, but I got something. Were there any blurry creatures involved because we had those guys? You know what? That's who I should have called. You know, I called Chad. That's who you call. I called Chad Robesha. I should have called Luke, one of those guys, Luke Rogers.

but I called Chad Robes Show because he's working on like a paranormal documentary type show. And so I called him to ask his thought. But so this is what happened. It's Saturday night, actually Saturday afternoon, the power goes out in all of like our area of Western North Carolina. I'm not sure what happened. Like it's, I mean, it's out everywhere. And later on, we had some baptisms that night. It's the whole other story.

maybe I'll tell on the next episode. But that night, the power didn't come back on to probably 1130. Well, about 9.45, it was pitch dark. And there's no light. You can see the stars because there's no light pollution. Yeah. Okay, listen, there was a steady stream for, I'm going to say probably 45 minutes in the sky of these green lights. They looked like airplanes, but they were like, they weren't.

blinking and all the lights were green and they really looked like like stars that's probably a better way high up but not quite outside the atmosphere and they were in a like a single file line at first and for 45 minutes just one after another of just probably 70 or 80 of these green lights just they just crossed the sky and the same and then and then i started to see them come from other directions where they would kind of intersect but i bet i saw a total of a hundred and 45 minutes green little small green lights what do you think that means well i have a couple of questions that i think would be helpful all right number one did you have your glasses on i did not have my glasses on oh because but i see a theme but i had witnesses i had a bunch of young

there's about about eight or ten teenagers outside who have great eyesight and i'm like what is that yeah because it's like when we had the blurry creature guys on yeah on one of to ask something, but I thought they might get offended. What were you going to ask? Well, I really wasn't going to ask it. I was just going to make a statement just at some point when they got into some of this stuff. Yeah. I wanted to say, have you ever thought about trying glasses?

Yeah. Because you know, blurry creature. I mean, when things are blurry, I put some, like right now, these words are a little blurry, but look, when I put my glasses on, yeah. It's clear. Clear. Clear it right up. But here's the thing.

So I saw it. In Black Mountain, they have this, which this needs to be a reality show. It's called the Black Mountain Exchange. It's like a local Facebook page. I don't get on Facebook, because they canceled my account. That's a whole other story. But it's like an exchange where all the local community gets on to have conversation and swap things and sell things. Well, that's a great place to figure something.

Now, internet chat room. Oh, yeah. So it was a chat room. There's a thin line, there's a thin line, very thin line between finding out right information and pooling ignorance. Well, they never came to the conclusion, but it did at least other people saw what we saw because it was a conversation. And so I'm thinking you have a blackout, you've got some unidentified objects in the air. I'm thinking EMP attack by aliens. Yeah.

And this is, we're fixed to, we're about to get into something. Well, it just kind of goes against the theme of the Bible. I don't ever, I don't ever read that place where all of a sudden we're going to have an alien invasion. Yeah. What's ironic though, Zay, I read a series because I like some of that like post-apocalyptic, you know, series. And there was one that was based in Black Mountain, North Carolina, Montreat, actually. and it was a three-book series, I think, and it was about an EMP. Oh, that's called One Second After.

You know, they're making a movie out of that. Really? Yeah, I know the guy who wrote it. The book series is outstanding. And it was a – but in the book – well, I don't want to spoil it for everybody, but it's a country that does it. And, you know, like we're under attack, so that's kind of – Well, my take – oh, I never gave him my official take.

That was just one question. What was your second question? Were you going to ask you – Yeah, the second – it's kind of like – Look, I'm not known as a very intellectual type person. So I'm going to use you an illustration. I'm going to use an illustration that I think is helpful. And because a lot of times when we're duck hunting in a duck blind,

we have a lot of arguments over the same question. Why do ducks flare? And because people start saying, you know, the ducks, they'll make two circles, and they won't come in. And so all these theories, these conspiracy theories come up about why they won't come in. And I mean, you should hear these things. Oh, you're right. Al, how many arguments?

Oh, my goodness. I'm talking about infinitum. I mean, it just, they never end on what it is. And dad was the king of the conspiracy. Oh, yeah. But I made a rule, and I don't know if I got this. I'm not saying it was from the, Holy Spirit, but maybe the spirit of the wild based on my hunting experience.

The spirit of the wild. I said, at the end of the day, there's only two reasons, two things that ducks flare. Do you know what they are? The two things. Movement. Movement would be one. There's two reasons why Doug's flare, and two reasons only. I would say maybe movement and some kind of coloration of something.

Men are humans. Yeah. And equipment. Things that humans make. So if you think about it, these are things that come in that is not in their setting. It's not natural. It's not natural. Yeah.

To their habitat. So what's the connection? I don't understand the connection. Well, you don't see that connection. I can already see it. simple. I came to you with such a simple explanation that it literally went over your

head. I don't get it. So when you look at the sky, you have two options. Oh, what is that? Well, I'm going to give you the answer. It was either men or equipment, perhaps both. Well, it's not

men by themselves. There may be men in the equipment that men made. So you think it was some type of Air, it wasn't airplanes. I mean, I'm thinking maybe drones. No, no, no, no, no. You jumped to airplanes.

I gave you the answer. It was something by man's design. Oh, it was definitely by man's design. I'm just trying to figure out. I don't think it was aliens. Let me just stop. Well, he said that, right? You said that at the beginning.

Well, I think I've proven my argument here. But what kind of man would put 70 to 100 flying objects like what's the agenda what's behind that that's weird I'm sure it was probably a meeting of men that produced what you saw there was a meeting

hey I got an idea let's get and whatever the equipment was you line them up and go take care of it was it did they ever solve the was it an extension of the East Coast issue North of Yous Act

you're talking about the New Jersey Jersey situation. Yeah. What good they ever say that was? There was, so then there was another object that came through that looked like the one in New Jersey. I don't know, I don't, because one of the kids brought that up and said, look at the picture of this. And I said, that looks exactly why the big one that came out. There was a big one, and then there was about 80 to 100 small ones. Could it have been?

Could it have been equipment that men had made? Well, I think it was equipment that men made. the question is, who made it? Who made it? That's a lot of traffic to be coming over your house at 9.45 at night. That was the question the New Jersey people had. And then the other thing I thought is, is this happening all the time, but yet the light pollution has prevented us from seeing it?

And now I'm just seeing it for the first time, which I'll preach. There's probably a story right there. No, it's probably, you know, too many sci-fi movies as a kid and alien-type movies. You are of that generation. You're either being influenced or you're influencing. So my question for the audience, though, is I know that have you seen something similar in your neck of the woods? And here's the next question. Do you know what it is?

Yeah. I'm curious. Yeah, we want to hear your responses, unashamed nation. Go to your places where you get information out that we eventually find. We want to hear that. because I'm sure there's some interesting theories out there among our crew. Since I've already given you the answer that kind of took the sting out of that. We know what it was.

We're trying to figure out what men, Jay's, what men made it. I was like, I have no idea where you're going with this connection. Could it be that somebody built this and sent it? On the flip side of it, though, on the good side of the evening was we did, Jill got a call right before it turned dark because the power went out. And these girls were having a retreat at Ridgecrest Conference Center. You want to go ahead and give them the address so they can go take it out? What, Ridgecrest?

No, we're not going to give an address. But they... You have a lot of details, right? No, I was like, I always think back to my dad when he used to give his address out in any kind of... Oh, Madison on television. Yeah. Like, Phil, won't you go ahead and invite them for supper? They showed up at his house, too.

But now, these girls came over. They knew Jill, and the girls as a ministry where she ministers to college aid students. They had a retreat, and they were having a bunch of baptisms, but the power went out at the camp they were at. So then she called Jill and said, hey, can we bring some girls over and use y'all's pool to do some baptism? So we end up having about five or six girls get baptized in the pool at our house on Saturday night. Then we had another group that got baptized after church on Sunday.

So we had a whole baptismal weekend as well. I like baptismal weekends. Was there all? Baptisms in the dark? Baptisms are that they all took their phones out and turned their light, their flashlights on. And everybody, you have 50, 60 girls shining the light into the pool and the collective lighting. actually lit up the pool. Well, see, look, if a neighbor happened to see that, right now, they're having a different

conversation. They're like, I saw something that I can't put my finger on. It could be an alien invasion. There were these little flickering of light, like fireflies. Oh, yeah. But then I heard this huge sound of like splashing water. And then singing. and cheering and singing.

It was like some kind of weird supernatural phenomena which would be technically correct. And there was an invasion from the Holy Spirit. It was an invasion. That's where I'm going with it. That's pretty good. I like this.

Turns out it was some women giving their life to the Lord and they were lighting it with their phones. It was powerful. It was a cool moment. Well, you know, it's funny, Zach, you said that because Phyllis is down here. she and her Missouri siblings.

And I'm not sure what I told me yesterday that says, weird what to call you because we're not really connected, but they're, they're siblings in some way. And so she was telling me about a new painting that Tony is working on. And so our old friend, Cade,

who's the new guy at Duck Commander Building Duck Calls, who's from your area. He's from Lake City, Zach. Yeah. And I don't know if you've met him yet, but he's a great kid. nose duck calls, just, you know, super, super kid. But he's kind of got a beard and long hair.

So Tony got him above the water. And then Tony got in the water. And he said he waded himself down where he would have to go to the bottom. And he took pictures of Cade reaching into the water. He's trying to produce a painting, ultimately from a photograph of Jesus reaching down to pull Peter, you know, out of the water. when he's sinking, you know, in that famous scene. So just her description, he wasn't quite ready to show us yesterday because we FaceTime him. He's not here.

But I'm intrigued, you know, I'm like, oh, man, what an awesome perspective. Like from Peter's perspective, I've sunk in the water, but Jesus is reaching into the water to pull me up, which is pretty cool. Yeah. Which makes me think there's a thin line between capturing a picture of Jesus rescuing someone out of the water and dying. at sea. Trying to capture that picture.

Because you're right. If you wait yourself too securely. Well, I heard the millstone tied around the neck, but I'm going to try. There's another story about that. Well, it's funny. Because Kay, Tony, he said, well, Tony, if you would just let all the air out, you'll sink.

And Tony said, yeah, but I need that air. He just get some scuba gear, man. I don't know how you. He's taking pictures in the water in Louisiana. The water, I mean, that water is like black. Exactly. He must have a clarity issue. He must have been in a pool.

Flood. Flood towns, which we have. Hey, he is, hey, what's the guy's name again? The guy. Cate. Toney. Yeah, they need to go back down to Cade's neck of the woods. You can get out of one of them springs in North Florida.

The water's crystal clear. That's where you take that. Oh, that's beautiful down there. You're all right. Well, John 8. Are we doing John 8 out? We're doing John 8. Let's do John 8.

You don't want to? Let's go. You know, John 8th, it's a handful. It is. Well, let me reset. It's pretty deep.

You know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, there's a lot of deep. What, I think the, uh, scholars call them hyperlinks. There's like thread lines here that go all the way back to Genesis. And you're talking about the whole chapter. Yeah, just in various places. It's like, wait, what? I mean, I think. think I've studied this for a few days, because you just keep going down rabbit trails that are very enlightening.

I say that because light is going to be a very one of those themes here. I thought about that when Zach said that a minute ago about the lights and the baptism. Light is such a big theme here. By the way, I met a guy in an event, which I'll tell you about the next podcast, a veteran event, and he makes these track chairs for disabled. He had a kid that was disabled, but he makes these chairs. And so a lot of military guys get him as a wonderful guy, but he's a huge, unashamed listener.

And he told me, he said, you guys and what you're doing, especially in this study in John, to tie in the Old Testament, has been the best study of my life is the way he put it. So I thought those. Thank the Lord, because it's so much work. I've learned more about the Old Testament in the past year than the previous 30-some-odd years of, I don't even know. But it is amazing how it's all there. You know, it's eye-opening for all of us because I'm seeing some things I had never seen before either.

Well, what happens is when you go back and read, you know, part of you're like, dang it, I didn't even know this. Yeah. It's just embarrassing, really. but yeah light which i have a rabbit trail on light when we get there but i'll let you well let me let me reset first because we i want us to kind of be fair with this first text which because the last is to my memory because it's been a few podcasts because we had a lot of really great guests on the last few podcasts but we had uh we were talking about this section from john 753 through 811 which was

the woman called an adultery. And we never really dealt with the text. We just talked about why it's a little bit controversial as to whether it belongs here. And some other texts was it part of the original canon. And we kind of came up with two sort of things that have been settled on. One is that maybe with some of the early church leaders, they were a little concerned about people getting the wrong idea by what Jesus meant. So they left it out of the canon for that reason, which may or may not be true. Or the second one, which I tend to believe is true, is that this was a story that was recognized from the first century that it happened.

But it didn't necessarily happen in the narrative of the gospel writers. And so they just stuck it here because sometimes it's in Luke, sometimes it's here. But it belongs because, you know, God decided to put it here, which is what NT writes said. He said, I'm not sure where it goes, but it really is a great story. Yeah. that fits the narrative of who Jesus is. And so that's where we kind of left off, you know, by at least setting that part of it up. And then, but I feel like we need to read it and then talk about it a little bit before we move on to the light,

because that's where he's going to go from here is that. Is that all right with you? Yeah, go for it. All right. So he said, so remember he's been in the, this was, he went to the Feaster Tabernacles, and he spoke, and his brothers had said, you know, you need to get out more. and I'm paraphrasing everything, but he goes and he teaches for this eight-day period. And then it says in verse 53, then each went to his own home.

So they sort of put it in the context of that that was over. But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. At dawn, he appeared again in the temple courts where all the people gathered around him and he sat down to teach them. So it's a teaching setting in the outer courts at the temple. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in on a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group.

So this is obvious, this is a shaming terrible situation, and said to Jesus, teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the law, Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now, what do you say? And it's interesting, because I went back and looked in Leviticus 2010 and also Deuteronomy 22, 22, which are the two law passes here. And it doesn't say in the law passes that it's just a woman. It says if a man is caught in adultery, he's to be stoned and the woman along with him.

So I just thought it was interesting how they were applying this law, which was incorrect. But he didn't even go there, but that's what happened. They were using this question as a trap in order to have a basis for accusing him. And by the way, they didn't have any legal standing to do executions anyway. They're under Roman rules. So really trying to enforce the Torah. Correct. Or the law.

They're using it as a trap because they're threatened by what he's representing. So that should really take out any concerns about this was some kind of sincere basis for trusting God's law as an Israelite. Yeah. That's what it says. They were using it as a trap. which look religious people today do the same thing you know all the time yeah most arguments you're you're just ripping verses out of context and yeah just to try to make an argument to show that you're wrong and i'm right but think about jays even outside of a spiritual context

and a biblical context about law it happens every day in our culture you know most people in government especially in Congress, or lawyers, and they split hairs and misapply and use bad intent for laws every single day to push an agenda.

So, I mean, it's so obvious how much it happens, which in my outline, I put, is it adultery or hypocrisy because that's where we get to, I mean, really quick. Well, you kind of see what I think we said

on the previous podcast is they were wanting to stone her, but the trap was for Jesus. And then when Jesus didn't answer to their liking, now they're trying to stone him. Correct. So that should put it in the perspective that maybe they had a heart problem. And I thought about Jesus.

I looked up the other Matthew 12 and Mark 12 and Luke 20, the one where they set a trap for paying taxes to Caesar. and because it's the same framework. In those contexts, Jesus, knowing their intent, he said, you hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? So to me, it's the same application, you know, to this situation here. You see the heart of Jesus here, too, that it's, I just think it's interesting. She is caught in the act of adultery.

I mean, she is, you know, acting out and living in sin. Correct. That's true. So when you read the part where Jesus says at the end of it, he says, where are you basically your accusers, where are your condemners, has no one condemned you? And she said, no, no one, Lord, because obviously they had seen their own sin in that moment. In some regard, Jesus had read their mail and set it up this way. But then he says, neither do I condemn you.

Go and sin no more. And I think that's a hard passage or hard phrase to kind of wrap your mind around because it's almost like he's saying two things that almost kind of are the opposite of each other. Because there is like, there's no condemnation here. I don't condemn you, but it's not like, go do whatever you want. Everything's fine. Go, you do you. There's no condemnation in this world.

Like, I'm just accepting everything. He doesn't do that. He does not bring condemnation, but at the same time, he gives the instruction to go and send them more. And I think this is indicative of, you know, how we come to Christ. we often put limitations on people, and we had this conversation privately now recently, about when people come to Christ, what do they have to have together in their life before they come to him? Because we're dealing in a situation where we live where we are constantly having Bible studies and interactions with people who are not coming from a Christian perspective whatsoever.

We live in the deep south, everybody at least, has this kind of cultural Christian context. But then when you get into areas like where we live, a lot of the people here, they don't even have a context for what it means to follow Christ. And so the initial coming to Christ, I mean, if we, I don't, I mean, we simplify that down to, really, do you know you're a sinner? And do you know that Christ, that God came in the flesh in the form of Jesus Christ and that he suffered death on the cross for your sins, and he was buried and raised on the third day, and now he sits at the right hand and mediates for you,

and will he be the Lord of your life? And what that means for that person in that moment, that's going to change quite a bit as they walk with him. And I think the same is true of this woman. She probably had no context of what it would mean to actually follow Jesus in a meaningful way, but she would find out over the course of her life. At this moment, it's just like,

You're just coming. And, Zach, what you're describing is most of the New Testament, everything Paul wrote, because here was a Hebrew of Hebrew, Pharisee of Pharisees, guy who knew everything inside and out about Judaism, now tasked with sharing the good news of Jesus with the Gentile world who knew nothing about all that. I mean, nothing. They had no background.

So when you're talking about the Passover and sacrifice and all these things that if you understand, in Jewish history, you would get it. I mean, these people didn't know anything. And so all these letters are written about now look. You know, you can't have these food sacrificed idols. You can't do this. You can't do that. I mean, he's constantly trying to shape their mindset.

But it's once they've embraced Christ is what's got to happen first. You know, do you try to teach them through everything they've ever learned wrong? Or do you teach them about who Jesus is? Where do you start? Well, that's why this is difficult. But you got to remember this is the same Jesus. who said in Matthew, you know, after he talked about salt and light and the beatitudes and, you know, all that narrative, he then talks about he came to fulfill the law.

And then he gets into all these things that, you know, murder, adultery, divorce, and oaths telling the truth. But that adultery one, when he said in Matthew 5, You have heard that it was said do not commit adultery, but I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. And then he, like, goes to this graphic language. You know, if you're right eye,

causes you to sin, gout it out, and throw it away. You know, it'd be better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell. So, I mean, it's interesting that part of the reason that this story had trouble finding its way in the Bible was because it seemed to be scandalous. Yeah. Of someone caught in adultery, but I'm saying, how could you be any more blunt? Yeah.

He's like, yeah, you're hung up on adultery, but if you just look at a woman. So the standard was way above what they're saying, even though it wasn't like, let's stone them. He was like, let's start plucking your own eye out so that you won't even head down that road. I think what Jesus is teaching there, too, is actually pretty profound. It's almost like he's using the term as argumentum absurdum, which is you push the logic. There you go. He's looking for the whistle. I thought you were looking for the crickets.

Argument, I'm absurd. And where you push the argument, you push it out to its logical conclusion, and you see, is this absurd? Like what we're saying? And so when Jesus actually says, if you're right eye, or if your eye causes you to sin,

gouge it out, the point is that your eye doesn't cause you to sin. What causes you to sin is what's in your heart. Yeah. And so the sermon of the mouth. It wouldn't do any good to gather that. I was just simply making the point that people who say this story is in here that somehow Jesus was making light of adultery is kind of ridiculous. Because where I was going with that is when he talked about light, which he's fixing to talk to in John 8.

When he talked about light in Matthew 5, there's a connection here. He ends that little phrase by saying, people will see your good deeds. Where's that, Matthew 5? Because he's like, do you take a light and in the same way? Yeah, yeah, in verse 16. Yeah.

In the same way, let your light shine before men. Of course, he had just talked about the beatitudes, that they may see your good deeds and praise your father in heaven. Well, we start getting into good deeds we're getting he goes to the law the him being the fulfillment of the law and then i do think you're right he he uses all these illustrations uh and some illustrations in absurd ways because he's saying it's basically this is coming from your heart but what i was going to say i think you're going to see

that same connection when he says i'm the light of the world i mean that's the next i think that's why they put it here but i was going to to read Romans 8 to answer your question about when he said, neither do I condemn you, go now and leave your life of sin. Because we know what he's actually going to do. He's actually going to die for the sins of the world, be raised, you know, conquering sin and death. But then he's also going to pour out his Holy Spirit. And I think you see a glimpse of that in Romans 8. I was having a conversation with one of my buddies the other day. And he's like, when he was coming to Christ and all the studies,

he's like, yeah, I mean, he was obviously hooked on Jesus. But someone read Romans 8-1. And boy, he said, when I heard that verse, I was like, here we go. Because he had come from a religious background where he just thought, I'm never going to be good enough. I can't, there's no way. He kind of got the conviction of sin to a point of, There's no way out of this.

And so Romans 8-1, therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Because he says that. When he says, woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you? Neither do I condemn you. There's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus because through Christ, well, then he starts talking about this law again. the law of the spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death for what the law was powerless to do in that in that it was weakened by and this word is hard to translate into english there's various versions by the flesh or human nature sinful nature god did by sending his own son in the likeness of human nature sinful man flesh to be a sin offering.

And I think this is the key phrase. And so he condemned sin and sinful man. Think about this woman. He condemned the sin and sinful man through his death on a cross eventually in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us. And then look at this phrase, who do not live because he said,

go now, what does he say? Either do I condemn you. Go now and leave your life of sin. So you go to Romans 8 here and you see who do not live according to the sinful nature, the human nature, the flesh, however you want to,

your take on that. But according to the spirit, those who live, to the sinful nature or flesh, have their mind set on what that nature desires. But those who live in accordance with the spirit have their mind set on what the spirit desires. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind controlled by the spirit is life and peace. The sinful mind is hostile to God.

It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. those controlled by the sinful nature or the flesh cannot please God. So you, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature, but by the spirit. And if the spirit of God lives in you, there's that live again. And if anyone does not have the spirit of Christ,

he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. righteousness and then he makes the point about the resurrection at the end and if the spirit of him who raised him from the dead is there it is again living in you he who raised christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his spirit i think that's the i think that's the echo of kind of the story of exodus is in that what you just said too that um i preached on

Exodus 3 Sunday. And one of the things that I had never really seen before in Exodus 3, which is one of the most important texts in the entire Bible when Moses is at the burning bush. And this helps me frame this up where I can read John 8, particularly the story of the woman at the well, and kind of see where do I have Pharisee tendencies to be like this? And the tendency is that I want to separate myself through a system that I developed to make myself believe that I'm more righteous than somebody else. But I think the Burning Bush is a great way for us to kind of all come to grips with the reality that Moses at the Burning Bush was actually living on the run when he has the encounter with God at the burning bush. Moses had he killed the Egyptian.

He had fled to Midian. He was working for his father-in-law, Jethro, who he was tending to his sheep. So he's just kind of like coasting, living off of his father-in-law's wealth. He's not like this great guy. He doesn't have like any of the credentials. He had a speech impediment. It wasn't a great speaker. We really don't know about his moral character.

And he'd been doing it for 40 years. It's not like it was 40 days. No, he'd been out there for 40 years. Like this is not the guy that you call to this. But God did call him. And so when he has the encounter with God, then there's a whole thing there about God revealing himself as the great I am and Yahweh in that moment. But Moses, when he sees the bush that's burning and yet it's not being consumed,

he's like, wait, why is the bush not being consumed? Like fires consume things. That bush is self-generating. It doesn't need fuel, which is a picture of who God is, right? But when he sees that, he is so overwhelmed by the power of God's glory that Moses says, who am I that I should actually go lead these people out of Israel, I mean, out of Egypt. He understands that he's not equipped for it in any capacity. He doesn't have the moral fidelity, the intellectual capacity, the ability to communicate.

He's not the guy for the job. Which is totally different than 40-year-old. Moses, by the way. Totally different than that guy. He had been like kicked in his face, humbled, knocked to the ground, not the guy. And God's response to him is so telling because God never says, I'm going to build up your, let me build up your self-esteem and tell you how great you are. Let me give you all your credentials. Let me tell you why you're the guy. He doesn't do that. The only thing God says in response to the question, who am I is, here, here you are. I'll be with you. He says, I'll be with you. And that's all the credentials

that you need. And so I think what happens in this moment with these Pharisees is we tend to all want to separate ourselves in degrees of righteousness as we approach the great I am. But in reality, if you could fast forward to the day of the second coming when Christ returns in his glory, here's what's actually going to happen. Everybody is going to hit the deck. And we are going to, we are going to collapse under the weight of the revelation of the glory of God, because we're all going to see that it like flattens everybody's righteousness or whatever you think you've built. Because anything that you think you've done before an infinitely holy and good God, it's just, it really is pretty much all filthy rags, the Bible says. Well, back to your original story you told, you won't have to wonder. if it's the moment.

Yeah. You wonder what is those lights in the sky? But you'll know when this happens because every knee will bow. Well, I was just going to say one of the reasons I think they put this in here, which he had already brought up Moses several times, you know, John 5, where. He's mentioned him almost every chapter, yeah. Yeah, John 1, John 3, remember the pole, the snake, with snakes, in John 3, and then John 5, he was like,

do not think I will accuse you before the father, your accuser is Moses on whom your hopes are set. If you believe Moses, you believe me, for he wrote about me. Yeah. And so, but then when he gets to 7, when he brings up, you know, about David being in the, or they bring that up when he said, Yeah, he said from Bethlehem.

John, the writer, you know, is putting that in there. It's like, in first of the, verse, where is that, 742, does not the scriptures say that the Christ will come from David's family, which will come up again. And then here we have another law of Moses issue here in chapter 8. Because it's like, in the law Moses commanded us to stone such women. But what do you say? It's going back to all the other time, John 5.

But then later on in John 8, well, then we have Abraham. brought up. It's like all these characters, which the reason John keeps bringing them up in the conversation and Jesus keeps bringing them up, and the Pharisees, they keep going to these guys. And he's like, yep, I'm fulfilling everything that they were pointing to.

I am, yeah, I am the fulfillment. And isn't it John 8 that he actually says before Abraham was? I am. Yeah, that's how he is it. I mean, we're getting to that. Well, I was just making the point. They keep going back to these characters. And he's like, yeah, this is, here I am.

This was the result of all that. I think the practical application of this for us is like, okay, you elevate yourself up and we all do it. Like, we all puff ourselves up. And look at, man, look at how good I'm doing. And I think that's like you're missing the whole point. Like it's not about doing good and in the sense of like I'm ascending, you know, I'm getting a higher level of spiritual, maybe higher consciousness. It's not that. It's actually coming to the realization.

It's being in his presence. I mean, that's really what it is. And if we're in the presence of God, all the bragging rights. just seemed to like go away and all of the sectarian garbage and just the haughty spirit of the Pharisee and the scribe here, it just gets evaporated. I mean, it gets absolutely evaporated in the presence of a holy God. It just like consumes. His presence just consumes it all. And I think that's what Jesus is pointing to this all-encompassing mercy. So they're, They're going back to the law of Moses, but they don't understand what Moses.

They're like, you're so far from what Moses was doing. I mean, like, are you kidding me? Jesus, you guys miss this whole thing. Moses is the guy at the Burning Bush. Go read that. Go read that story. And do you embody that type of humility? And do you also have a desire for mercy, which is also what Moses said in the Old Testament

as well, that, you know, God said he desires mercy? And I think that they're not displaying that at all. Well, that's the dirty little secret. What they didn't plan on on their way to entrapping Jesus was that they were actually confronting the only person on the planet that could condemn this woman or them or anyone else. Yeah, good point. And yet he chose not to. Jason, when you were reading Romans 8, immediately I went back to John 3 because this is where Paul's inspiration was for writing what you read. because we all know John 316, right?

For God so love the world, he's in his only son. But 17 says, for God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he is not believed in the name of God's one and only son. And here it is. Here's where we're going to John 8.

This is the verdict. Light has come into the world. But men love darkness instead of light, because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, will not come into the light for fear this deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light so that it may be plainly seen that what he has done has been done through God.

Which is kind of the point, right? The light comes on. And so when the light comes on, that means it illuminates reality. And so now you can actually see what's in the room. And then when you look in the room of your own heart and your own life, you're like, whoa, wait, he's holy, I'm not. I'm going to worship this God. That's what it elicits.

Well, I think that's why it's hard to wrap your head around when I said John 8 is a doozy. Because by every impression that you have, the narrative seems like they're putting Jesus on trial. This was a trap. And then you're going to see that in the next couple of paragraphs. But what happens because Jesus is the light of the world, they become on trial. that's it without really noticing what just happened that is it

all of a sudden be careful when you said a trap I used to use traps in various forms and all of a sudden you realize that you you get caught by your own trap like the story where it's like if man you know be careful when you

dig a pit because you might fall in it that's right or roll of stone it may roll back on you but that I think the role Romans 8 contrasts is, you know, I get it, the law is a part of this, and Jesus fulfilled it, but he kind of introduced this concept of the law of sin and death being conquered by the law of the spirit of life. Yeah. And so that's why I think the evil one here is introduced in a bigger way, because this,

this, what Jesus is fixed to get into, this argument, seems harsh. I mean, it's like he takes the gloves off. And we're kind of trying to prepare you for what we're fixed to read because it's like very blunt. But he's, well, I think he's introducing, you know, the evil one here because at the latter part, or I guess the middle part of John 8, when they're like, hey, we're Abraham's children. They keep going back.

We follow Moses, you know. We're looking for the seed line of David and all this. And he's like, let me just lay this. this out here, you're children of the devil. That's harsh. Well, yeah, it's like, well, how come, how did he, what's he got to do with anything? What are you talking about? We're all believers in God.

But I think you see that theme start here in John 8 and then it's revisited in John 12 and then it's revisited in John 16. Yeah, he's going to keep coming back. The evil one has a, you know, it's like, think First John. which is a passage people don't like to read because they're uncomfortable with it because it says Jesus came to destroy the work of the devil that's the whole reason he came and people like well that's that's kind of taking it too far but I'll read that just I've read this verse before and people people are shocked that that's in the Bible but I'm going to

read that where is that at 1 John 3 verse 8 he who does what is sinful is of the devil because the devil has been sinning from the beginning the reason the son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work no one who is born of God will continue to sin him because God's seed remains in him he cannot go and sin him because he has been born of God which is a very difficult passage to kind of wrap your head around. But I think you'll see what he means by that as we go on because this whole claim about being Abraham's children

and then Jesus saying, your children of the devil, which is kind of what he's doing here? Because they're like, they're wanting to what? Because of sin, they're wanting to stone, kill this woman. But verse 10 of verse John 3 says, this is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are.

Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother. So I simply said all that to introduce the idea that he brings up this concept, good and evil, the kingdom of the evil one, the kingdom of God. I mean, when you tie all these theme lines into this, and you're seeing Jesus fulfill what God's plan all along was, and the resistance, he starts. introducing the idea of this is from the evil one. Yeah. And I think that's exactly why this text is where it is, because it's a good place to put it, which is we're going to see that contradiction in the next part of the text. So we're out of time. We'll pick it up right here next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast.

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