Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1103 | Jase Sees Phil’s Legacy Spark a Gospel Fire in His Own Son

Episode Date: June 4, 2025

Jase didn’t expect to get emotional during the new ‘Duck Dynasty’ premiere—but one powerful scene wrecked the whole room. Al reveals the backstory behind Phil’s final filmed moment, and Zach shares why Sadie’s prayer hit him so hard. Reed delivered a gospel gut punch to Jase that proves the next generation of Robertsons is ready to carry the torch. Jill accidentally settles a podcast feud, and the guys remember Phil’s chainsaw “remodeling” days at the very beginning of Duck Commander. In this episode: Revelation 12, verse 11 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashame. Jill, welcome to Unashame. We always love having you on the podcast. Thank you. She's been a breath of fresh air. She doesn't realize what goes on here every day.

And she just, she bumbles and fumbles her way into asking questions that I've been asking for years. And then all of a sudden it gets to. quiet because they think in that moment, Jace was right. I can't tell you what it was about, but Jason and I've had a, I would say, an ongoing argument.

I had no idea, by the way. And so Jill asked a question, and it has to do with the way we, some of the production stuff on the podcast. And Jill said, well, why don't you do it this way? It seemed to line up with what I've been saying.

Four years. But Jason's over there on his phone, completely obtuse, out of, he's not engaged, he's whatever, he's doing whatever he's doing. I was looking up a Bibleburst. He's looking up a Bibleburst. Me and Jill are having our own side conversation. And I kid you not, when he heard her say that, it was like, it was like the whole posture, he postures up, like a head comes up like a, I mean, the best way to describe it is if I was swimming in the ocean and I barely pricked my finger and a, I mean, just a microscopic A microscopic piece of blood started to come out of my hand and the shark, the senses of the shark pick it up.

And it's like, yeah. And he was just, he was ready. Yeah. I mean, he came to, you came to life. Yeah, it's the predator. Boom, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. It's the jealousy. Yeah.

I will break this tension with, with, say, I have a deeper understanding. Every once in a while, you have to get an understanding of where we came from. Mm-hmm. And so I had an embarrassing moment during the funeral because I was a bit in a fog, and we've talked about that. But your dad came up and I hadn't been around in your dad in a while. And so I guess I was, I was vulnerable. And so I said, hey, how's it been going, you know? And he made some joke. Then I realized, okay, I forget that 90% of what he says is a joke. Am I? Was it like a middle school joke? Yeah, it was junior high level. I don't even remember what it was. Yeah. And then I

I was like, how you've been doing it? And then the embarrassing moment, I said, did you ever marry that old gal that you were dating? Well, then in that moment, he looks to his left, and then I realized this is his new wife. Oh, my word. And she kind of turned a little red. And I'm sure I turned a little red because I thought, gulp, that was this too much. She was standing right next to her, and I didn't recognize it. What is that?

Well, he then went into typical Gordon mode because he, like you said, I had a little blood of embarrassment coming out. So then I said, oh, so you said yes. I wonder why. And she was fixing to answer, but Gordon interrupted and said, well, she married me for my sexual prowess. Oh, wow. And, which I looked back at her and she said, exactly.

Oh, wow. Yeah. She says it. Oh, yeah. And she said, you know, he almost died on her honeymoon. That is true. That is true. He had to get a pacemaker put in.

Oh, yeah. I'm like, what are you doing, man? And he said she's grown to love this pacemaker. Yeah. And I was like, okay, Gordon, that's enough. I can't. So then, but then deep down. down when I sat and reflected, I felt a lot more sympathy towards you.

Yeah. So maybe I am too hard on it. It's hard. It was hard. Yeah, it was hard. Oh, this is a moment. I think y'all just, that was just a moment. We had interesting fathers, both of us.

You know, obviously my dad's still with us, but I think about their relationship, too, was very interesting. And watching those two interact was quite the, quite the pair as well. Well, I mean, it was a journey of, like, when you put a yuppie on a fart, extreme side when you put a wilderness man on the far extreme of the other side and then Christ in the middle yeah and it probably took 20 years for that to become one new humanity yeah it's been worked out but it really it really did uh they became you know sitting on the porch type of friends oh yeah well one of my favorite exchanges uh every time gordon would come in he

dad would say uh dasher you got to look about you. You've got to look about it. And he says that in a way that's not, it's not really a compliment. That's not endearing. It's like, you're looking. And then Gordon would always say, you're telling me about the way someone looks like you're, you're making a comment about looks. Have you seen yourself? But it was just that in later. He'd say, we're in the airport. And being you're walking to the airport, people look up and they say that and they point to me and say, that guy's got to look about him. I remember Gordon came in one time and he said,

Huh. And Gorham was like, huh. And they, because Gordon didn't know why he was going, huh. But I mean, that's not usually how you greet someone you haven't seen in a while. And he said, what's, what's huh? And Phil said, I'm trying to figure out why a man would wear that shirt in the woods. It was a pink, a colored shirt. And he said, so you woke up.

this morning and thought, okay, I'm going down to see old Rob in the woods. I think I'm going to put this shirt on. He said so. That's why I went. You can't make this up. That's hilarious. I just would apologize for the interaction you had. That was, that was.

Yeah, it was awkward. I was kind of embarrassed. Well, I wish I hadn't heard about it, be honest with you. Well, and, you know, look, you. you never know, like, you know, Jan was so beloved to us. And so when I first heard that Gordon was dating somebody serious, you know, he called me. I mean, we, we're pretty tight too. And just, you know, we had a serious conversation, which are rare with Gordo, but, you know, about it.

And I said, well, Gordo, you know, I don't know. You know, I mean, my first thought is, I mean, if you need to get married, get married. But at the same time, you know, you're bringing another family into your life. I mean, there's a lot of, I was just very honest about it, just like I would do with anybody that's like thinking about a second marriage late in life. And then I met her. And I was like, oh, my goodness. Like, she's got the perfect personality to work for Gordo, you know, because and not sure. And so I love her in a whole new way, so different from Janet.

What I love about the most is we can talk about jam, which we do often, especially her influence of dad and, you know, and everything like that. And she asked questions. Like she never seems like it makes her feel weird. No, she's great. She's so good. Yeah, I love her. Well, Gordon's best qualities, he's unoffendable. You can't opinion.

Yeah. And I feel like that's a safe place to be. I mean, even as embarrassing is what I did. He never missed a beat. And he dishes it out, but he can take it. Oh, yeah, take it. That's a good quality. I mean, yeah, Reed came over.

because I guess the night before we got here, they were already here, and apparently there was a gathering, a family gathering, I think at your house, Al. Well, the gathering is still going on. Well, I mean, there was one gathering. Since I've been gone, there's been,

I've received so many texts of people that are at my house. It's such a bizarre thing. We're staying a house house right now, and it has been a revolving door of, well, our house is a revolving door. We come to Louisiana, and the place we stay at in Louisiana is a revolving door. Yeah, we came to get away, but then it's like,

but it's kind of fun because, like, Reed shows up this morning. I'm cooking breakfast, and he walks in with the three kids. I mean, it's like, well, see, last night I had a film moment because I thought, well, Bill's not here anymore, and I guess I'm going to have to be the guy that just says things that needs to be said. Yeah. And I had one last night.

What did you say? Well, they were, you know, I was going to study for the podcast. And I thought, you're studying this place. I mean, there's kids everywhere. And it's all hours of the night. And the compound is just a revolving door. And I just finally got quiet for one second during the LSU game. And I just said, look, don't take this the wrong way, but I got a question.

So everybody turned around, including the kids. I said, when are y'all going to leave? I mean, this is the most loving way possible. When are leaving? Chase, you should have asked Shane and Shane if they know that country song. How can I miss you if you never leave? I was. Shane, he stayed with us last night. And it was just funny thinking about like how many, I'm like, he's getting to witness it.

But then Gus, Jep's kid comes over yesterday with. with a couple of your grandkids, Al, y'all got a, y'all, you eat healthy, but your pantry is like, we call it the diabetes.

Oh, it's like the diabetes corner. It's like the toys are us for kids snack addition. And I mean, when I tell you, Jace, every kid in the neighbor, it is a compound.

Like, I mean, that part would bother me probably having that many. I mean, you got to spend a fortune. I mean, they were coming there

and they were just wiping out. You like the locusts. Yeah. Just one, I mean, about every 15, 20 minutes a new kids coming in.

And some of them are so small. Some of these kids are so small that they literally have to climb up a cabinet. And they're just like, it's like a free-for-all. That's what this week is, man. I sent Cole. Oh, man, you know, he's engaged. Yeah. I was like, we're out of garbage bags.

Because what happens is you've got so many people, the volume of food being just gone. It's crazy. You don't think about little things, like going through, you know, a 30. bag garbage 30 gallon bag yeah we're just going through them

run out of places to put the garbage that's another thing I'm hauling garbage around the back truck clothes yeah truck clothes

so I send call I figure you know he's grown man I was like go buy some garbage bags he comes back you know because he's making

it on his own you know he buys the cheapest mom you're like I didn't realize that he puts it

the garbage. Well, then they fill the garbage. By the time I get up in the morning, it's ready to take out again. I recent grabbed that thing, and it was a disposable garbage bag. It didn't even make it out of the box. When I pulled it up, it just went everywhere, just garbage in every direction. And so I said, nope. I looked around.

I looked at them little bags he bought. I could just rip them by hand. And I took off. to the store. I went and bought some quality garbage bags and go back. Missy's like, where are you been? I was like,

I send our grown man to go. He just, he hadn't figured it out yet. I still haven't. Certain things you can't. I'm pretty cheap. I'm pretty cheap. Garbage bags is wonderful.

Yeah. There's some things you can't do generic on. Yeah. You know, Jill, I will tell you that. Well, it's funny you say that because our first fight,

although we're not going to talk about our fight. Don't bring it up at this one. But I, I do remember. Tell us, Jill. Tell us about your first fight. Our first marital fight, I was 20 years old when we got married. He was 23.

Was in the grocery store. And you've got to keep in mind. I had dreamed about this moment. I wanted to be a wife my whole life. I feel like I was just ready. I couldn't wait. And so going grocery shopping. This is foundational.

It's foundational. And I never lived by myself until we got married. So I didn't, you know. Which means she never. I had a budget. I had a dorm room. No budgets. We're not there yet.

And so I was so excited. We're married. We've got our grocery cart. We're just going down the aisle. Ooh, Doritos. I got a bag of Doritos. Put it in there. He took the bag of Doritos, put it back on the shelf,

and he got the fake Doritos. Oh, my. Oh, they're fake Doritos. Fakes. Sam's choice. Sam's choice. Like the off brand. I overlooked that.

You then realize that this marriage is going to be difficult. Well, not yet. Not yet. I'm still trying to be sweet. I would have taken it right there. Still trying to be sweet, Jill. You know, I have a, you know. And I'm like, okay, I'm just dismissive wife.

We'll get the fake Doritos. So I get a couple more items. Daisy sour cream. Sour cream's important. Yeah. Get the Daisy sour cream, put it in the grocery. He takes the Daisy sour cream out, puts it back on the shelf, and gets the Sam's choice.

or daisy sour cream and that was it the daisy sour cream is with her and she's like we're not like it was the daisy sour i learned what her idol was can i speed up this story yeah she was right yeah i left i left the cart i just said okay and i just high-tailed it in my high heels out of that grocery store because i was also chastising her and i was like let me tell you how this works in the real world But at the time, I didn't have any diplomacy. You learned diplomacy later in marriage. So I'm like, like, I'm going to get my way by, I'm going to just marginalize her. And so, yeah, I just like, let me tell you the, I'm the balls.

Well, it's more like, let me tell you how this works. Your daddy's not running the show anymore. You don't have daddy's credit card. Yeah, this is like my phone. Yeah, I mean, like, I'm working hard. You know what's fascinating by this story is that was also one of our first flight. but I was in your role. I was, and she was taking it out.

She was good. But she ran the money, though, didn't she? Well, she was like, we can't, we don't have any money. Yeah. And I was like, you're buying name brand product. Yeah. So my approach was a little different. I was just like, let me tell how this is going to work.

Because then I went the Zach role. Let me tell you how this is going to work. We will save money on all items of life except one. food. Because I said where I come from, we live to eat. So we're not, we're not skimping. I mean, this is this is the last wall of defense for our integrity as human beings. Well, I mean, I will say Jill won because we are a daisy, we only do Daisy sour cream now. That's the only one we do. Well, from a and from a marriage perspective, the reason both of you as couples and families have have managed and done well is because one of you kind of had those tendencies.

I was thinking about when you all were describing that Lisa and I, neither one had those tendencies. So we just built a mountain of debt and ate whatever we wanted to. You need somebody like saying, you know, maybe we need to like watch out for our peas and cues and our pennies. So in a marriage perspective, it's good to have that balance. But yeah,

you grow through. It's always been fun at your house that, Al. That's true. I know it. Our house is fun. There's no doubt about that. which I don't know if so I wanted to talk about the show too because so they ran old episodes all day

and it looked like to me just from watching it they kind of centered on the kids because this is kind of a next generation show and so I have to admit I mean like we have friends over and I had set to record I was just going to watch it later but all our friends were we watching the show and I was like yeah of course but so I turned it on and we watched about three old episodes and there was one on their jays that Reed was in with long hair And I didn't even remember that episode. Like you're teaching him how to, I don't know, like do his music and stuff.

But I just found myself like lost in the whole thing. And of course, you know, dad's so central and everything. And so I was kind of just fighting emotions. And then the new show came out. I thought it was really good. Loved it. Love the kickoff, which is kind of, is just a great transition to me having the opening scene with Jason and Jeff and sigh and Willie.

I just, I loved it. I thought it as a fan, you know, because it's kind of as a fan watching it. I don't, but what was your own state? I didn't see it, but I sent my representatives, read and right, and they went to the premier party. But that, that was their tape. They said they did a tribute with Phil at the end. Oh, man. Did you see that part, Al?

Yes, yeah. I had a house full of people, so I was trying to lose it. I can give you the backstory on that. I don't know if they revealed it. But, you know, Phil was in decline then. But Willie was kind of seeing the, you know, the tea leaves here that Phil was just really struggling. And but he's like, I want to give, because he came to me and asked, he said, I want to give, I want to give Phil a speech about the future. Duck Commander, do you think he'll, like, be with me?

Because I spent more time in the past few days. And I said, no, he's not, you know, he just wasn't doing really good. And I said, but I think Phil is understanding more than people think. I said, so if you give the speech, I think he will give you a response one way or another. And so basically he did. And just the cameras came in behind Willie, and I think he was oblivious to all that. So Willie gave the speech. And then Phil's response, that's the one little scene they showed.

And that's all they filmed. He gave a response. And I don't know if I want to say it, but I guess since it premiered, you know, it's out there. I didn't want to ruin the same thing. Yeah, no, he gave him a thumbs up. Which is, yeah, Phil would, which we grew to love those thumbs up during this process. Because as much as you didn't think he was with you, he would give you a thumbs up.

Yeah. That's, yeah, I didn't, I had seen the original cut, but that wasn't in there. the one I saw that wasn't in there and so I hadn't seen that I had not seen that footage and so we're sitting there watching it because it says yeah it's stuck dying and see it's funny

has that vibe to it but man when I saw that our whole table was just like whoa okay yeah read said everybody kind of choked up and they even included a scene before that where you know Corey did an interview bite

about you know how it had affected Willie and, you know, just it was, it was a serious moment, which the show is mostly lighthearted like it was. But, you know, so I immediately was touched when they did that. And then I kind of forgotten, because I was hoping they would do something, maybe to have some kind of something with that. And then when they did, I had forgotten. And then it caught me off guard. It was like, oh, wow, that was really special to me. So powerful.

It started for me just a little bit before that because Sadie, ends the show with a prayer. And, you know, Phil always ended the show with the prayer of that dynasty. And so there was like this moment of, well, one, realizing, okay, he's physically not here anymore. Yeah. And so the tears started to come, but then the realization of the generations that he is passing down on two. And the tears started to come. And then they showed that scene.

and I almost ugly cried. I mean, I literally, they threw some tissues across the table. I just, it just was, it was very, it was beautiful, and it was honoring, and it was, I don't know, I thought they did a great job. Well, the grandkids, I mean, I look even like, we got to spend a lot of time with Reed and Brighton this week. And I'm like, I told him, I said, if you had asked me, which of all the grandkids has the least chance of turning out to be an incredible man?

I mean, I was skeptical on Reed. I was like, I don't know how this is going to turn out. But I'm like, I look at this man. I'm like, this guy, I mean, I'm so, I got to tell you, Jace. Like, I had, like, and I've spent some time with Reed and Brighton over the last few years. And I'm telling you, man, that guy, man, he's a good man. And Brighton is an amazing young lady. I just think of the, that's why if you listen and you're like, man, my kids or whatever, I mean, you know, I would just say, you know, you, that faithful witness.

It's huge. You tend to have to, well, you'll back up one day and you're like, okay, all that time was worth it. Yeah, I mean, because he just turned out to be a fine. Very proud. And they are so on fire for the Lord. Yeah. This was a really good catalyst. I mean, they were already on fire for the Lord, but it's just like, it's really on fire now.

Yeah. Well, and it's a leadership thing, too. You know, Reed is the oldest, you know, grandson with mom and dad. And Phyllis' son is a couple of months older. So he's sort of like me and our role that I was in our family. But, you know, it takes a while before you read to step into that role as a leader. And you just don't know when it happens, but it just does. And so that's happened in the last few years with Reed.

And it just came to life during these, you know, last like couple of weeks on the trying stuff. And it's just amazing because they were down here. and we just had some really rich conversations. And then he immediately came down there to be with, and got in the bed with a mom, you know. And we talked about this when he was on the thing. It's just such a touching thing, you know. And one of the things about the show I was going to mention, too,

I don't know if you guys picked up on this, but earlier in the show, they had mom pray, which I thought was really neat. As far as I know, she never prayed on the original show, but I felt like, and then when that Sadie prayer at the end, I felt like that was another one of those things. And I felt that way about that. but I also felt that way about mom and dad.

I thought, you know, look at their patronage and their legacy. And there was an episode that aired a couple before the actual show. And Jason, I don't know if you remember this one, it was Cy and dad babysitting the girls. It was Jep's girls and Mia was in there and Bella. And, you know, they just, they were little bitty, you know, girls. I don't know. They probably weren't like in their elementary for seven, five years old. and just watching the inner eye, I laughed out loud and dad sprays them with a water hose and they're squealing.

And I just, you know, then not only watching the show, but just watching everybody these last few weeks in the process of their love and down on their knees next to dad holding his hand or next to mom now, you know, providing comfort. And it's just, I don't know, it's just a beautiful, special thing to watch and to see your kids thrive and, you know, basically take stock in their own life. It's incredible. And then, you know, as I mentioned before, the worship, your kids, Zach and Jill, you know, just the talent they have and they're willing just to use it for God. It's just a very encouraging thing. Yeah, what's funny is our week, you know, I was kind of saying when y'all going to leave. But the number one thing we've done this week is study the Bible. They've asked me more questions.

We've had just hours and hours of Bible study just on an excitement level. just and a lot of singing and because you know when reeds there and mea's there and missy's there they they're just continually they they just break out in the song over something there the pianists play the next thing you know it's just this beautiful harmony you know and everybody else is just sitting there like okay let's go i'm not sure where we're going but let's go it's just very uh encouraging so but you al you said that story about the kids also it brought back a lot of memories that one scene. That's one of my favorite scenes in Doug Dynasty's

when Phil built the playhouse for him or whatever. But he grabs that chainsaw because when I'm on the window, but as a child, that's the way he used to do. Maybe he would go cut down the tree, you know, but a couple times it was like too big. And next thing you know, the chainsaw is coming in the house.

And Kay's like, oh, don't saw down my, you know, whatever. And, I mean, it just was so scary because you're like, the man has a chainsaw in the house right now. Well, our dad was good at a lot of things, but he was not a builder or anything mechanical. He could do none of that as well. And so it was usually, when he came home, we went all the way to New Orleans and picked up all the equipment for Duck Commander off a boat, off a ship. And it was just this big trailer load. This stuff weighed thousands and thousands of pounds. We get back to the place.

we were going to put it as a, huh, like for the first time it hit him, none of that's going through the door. Yeah. And he had not even thought that through. And so, guess what he did? He takes a chainsaw and he cuts out the side of the building. Well, after he had it winched, the side of the building went to a little Jeep. And he's sawing with someone winching simultaneously.

I mean, it was a Duck Dynasty episode, 30 years. He cuts a hole in a house? Oh, yes. He cut the whole... The house to the shop. The whole... But it's a house. I mean, yes.

It was a house that he turned into a shop and he just ripped the whole side of it off. And like when it all just crashed into nothing, you would think, well, that didn't work. Because he destroyed it. And he's like, now we can get it in there. He was excited. So he had to come along in the winch and he put all the equipment in there. And look, he nails all the equipment in there. And look, he nails all the...

boards back up but then there's a gap the length of the chainsaw all the way around that stayed there for the entire time that we had the shop so stuff's coming in and bugs and snakes and everything else you know what's the most funny part of that whole story is then one of the piece of boards that used to be the inside of the wall yeah he got it and it wasn't even a square it was just a piece of scrap now this trash. And he painted on it. He wasn't let anybody see and he painted something. And then he took a hammer and he tacked it up. And it wasn't even straight. It was crooked. You remember? Sideways. Yes, sidewise. And it said, Duck Commander, worldwide. It did. Right above the door. Right above the door. That's how it started. And he had like 14

customers and was way in debt. And it had just destroyed the building that. That was used to howls at all. That's how it started. Well, and, you know, we tell the story about Gordon, you know, be happy with his middle school humor. But in some ways, dad always had like this, I guess you'd call it this need for approval for what he was doing. And so that's why he did that.

And then he told the story, I think it's in one of the books of when he came in and told Granny and Paul, and me and Jace were playing Dominoes. with Granny Paul, and he came in and said, you know, I'm fixing this duck call business going to take off, you know, and I'm going to make a million dollars, you know, or make a million dot calls. I can't remember exactly what he said. I'm going to make a million dollars selling it.

A million dollars. And everybody looked at him and nobody said a word. And Paul just played and said 10, like on the board. And dad just walks away, you know, just with his shoulders. No affirmation whatsoever. Nothing. It was like, we acknowledged this. a statement and then it was like, my grandpa was like, let's get back to the game.

Well, give me 10 while he's going to make a million dollars, which it was not even $10. It was just 10 points. 10. Yeah, 10 on the board. But it just, you know, he knew he had a vision for what was going to happen. That's why we included so much of that in the funeral. And our comments as well as the stuff we showed was because it meant so much to him that what happened with an idea.

And he just, it mattered, you know. And so he always, he was always just, someone said he was like, had a PhD of marketing, which of course is funny that he, that they say that. But he did have a way, uh, just whether it was a turn of phrase or tell something. And just he drew people in. And so I think that was a big, you know, obviously, you know, kingdom wound up being great. But like, even just from a business perspective, he just had a way. Well, that's why it was funny when I got back home from the.

funeral. Missy, he's like, I had never heard that story about the first sermon he had preet. I mean, I've been married to this woman for 35 years,

and I was like, Jason, I don't think I'd ever heard that story. I don't think I've ever shared that. And I said, but the only reason I remember it is because a week later, I came to the Lord.

Yeah. And because I was nervous for him because he was studying somebody. I could tell he was nervous. It's really the first time I've ever seen him nervous. But, and so if you have it,

if it's the first time you're listening, And basically, I was so shocked because when he got up, I'd seen him study all week. And he just said, I got some bad news and I got some good news. That was his first line. Yeah. But that was the same thing he said to every person that he ever studied with. Yeah.

They had walk in or they would just bumble off the street or he'd see them fishing or their motors broke down and he'd bring them in and, you know, all from a meal. And he would be like, what's your? story. And so he had a way of getting deep down into the souls of people sharing their innermost secrets, usually from the sinful persuasion. And then he would say, oh, I got some bad news and I got some good news. So when he started that sermon, I thought, well, what was he preparing for? Because the whole sermon was the gospel presentation that he had given hundreds of times to people on the couch and over the middle. Yeah, it heard. So why was it? So why was it? it wasn't the actual, because you'd heard the word, it was the testimony of the consistency.

You're like, wait a second. That's what made me think for the first time, because you know what it did? I didn't say this in my speech or the first time on the podcast when we shared about it. What he did for me was he connected what was going on at a church building to actual life. Because I didn't like church. You know, he had started going to church. I wasn't listening. And they had some old preacher, you know, that had the, what do you call it, the preacher tone.

It's like when he started talking. The holy tone. I thought, it's impossible. He wouldn't say, he would say baptized. Well, it just, there was the linga, you know, it was kind of an old kind of crusty church and people around there. And my dad didn't seem, you know, I mean, we sang, I'm sure the singing, I mean, it was 30, 40 people out there in the middle of nowhere. But my dad was living for the Lord. outside the church building.

And I just always thought, what are we doing here? Because it just wasn't that exciting. I mean, they didn't have a kids class, you know, you're just kind of in there. And I was bewildered by it. It didn't seem real or authentic in any way.

But what I was seeing, that did seem authentic. I thought, these people are crying on the couch. He keeps baptizing people in the river. And it was just hard for me, you know, as a 14-year-old to make that connection.

So that's when I thought for the first time, I need to study my Bible. You know, because he's talking the same story. I was like, I'll just want to read this for myself. But it was after that sermon that I thought, oh, there's a connection. That's the same God, but it didn't because it seems so. That's quite the realization, though. And you came out of it just for context.

I mean, and one of the reasons why I know this context so well is because I did all the interviews for the movie of the blind. And so I got to sit with, or they all of y'all. Yeah. And it was kind of like a therapeutic in a way. It was painful. I think you mentioned this at some point, Reese. I heard you say. Everything starts to blend together.

I don't know if we said it on the podcast or private conversation or at the funeral, but I know you said something about how difficult that was to tell that story. And even like just to go back in that, but like when I sat down with you particularly, I was like, I left your house and I thought, who, I didn't realize what you, what you had personally been. through. Yeah, and I think, you know, Al and I have documented this many times. We, you know, you respond differently. He was older. You know, I hid myself in self-righteousness. That was really my coping, which I know a lot of people don't struggle with that at an early age, but that was kind of my, I mean, I'm sure it came from the evil one. But that was just, I just thought, I'm going to be

better than you. I'm better, you know, I don't like these people. But at first I was skepticism. You were like, well, skepticism, right, what I'm, I learned is you can, I don't even think that was premeditated. It just goes with being self-righteous. You just tend to be a skeptic. And so I was skeptical of the Bible because I thought deep down this man can never change. He was too bad, even though, because it was bumpy, you know, it just wasn't an immediate. He still had moments where he, I thought, well, back to living like the devil.

He'd get mad and frustrated on the river, you know, he's throwing fish, you know, just mad. and I thought, well, what happened to all this Jesus stuff? You know, it just, you, you tend to look at life through those eyes when you're into that. And so, yeah, I didn't want to revisit that, but because a lot of trauma moments, you know, as a kid, I mean, I didn't go to a counselor or anything, but I have the Holy Spirit. And it's just, I didn't want to, I wasn't ready to relive those things. So I told you that story about when I visited him. Of course, they had it in the movie like it was, I think, me and out.

Well, we changed it a little bit. Yeah, it was just me. Yeah, and it was Tommy. And it was Tommy. But, man, I thought I wanted to see him. And when I saw him, I thought, no, this guy's completely lost his mind. You described that scene. That's why I knew we had to get it in there because I was like, that was.

Well, it's hard to, you know, it wasn't like you were not telling the truth. It's just, it was based on a true story. It's hard to capture what I saw. Yeah. Yeah. Man was barefoot. had a pile of dead carcasses there living without electricity, just drinking whiskey, you know,

and there was just a big pile of whiskey bottles and a bunch of dead carcasses, and he was just a wild, crazy-eyed human that had been away from society for months. And, boy, I thought, I don't want anything to do with this guy for the rest of my life. Well, you make that decision. That's a powerful decision.

How old were you? I didn't know, seven or eight, I guess. It was in 75, so you were a six. six actually. Yeah, six years old. Wow, that's pretty you'll never forget it though, because it's just like he came out

and I thought, you know, it just looked like he had some kind of demon. I mean, and how, and it really did. And how old were you when you came to Christ? I was 14. 14. That's what I'm saying. And he came to Christ,

so seven years after, I mean, I'm six or seven, whatever the, I'm not sure what the exact years are, but about that long was his first sermon. Yeah, that's about right.

It took him about that long. Yeah, to give us first. I love that, though, because so many times we think someone comes to the Lord and they're going to have everything figured out. They should know all the rules. It wasn't like that. And it's like, no, like grace. Like, man.

Well, it's a growth. These verses that never made sense to me early in my Christian life now do. Like that one in Galatians forward says until Christ is formed in you. Like, well, there's a process here. Oh, yeah. Or that wouldn't be in there. Or like Ephesians 4 when it says the church until we all grow up in Christ.

There's a process that we're all in. That's why I finally realized I'm not going to put my faith in religious groups of people because they're all in that process. So you're going to see. That's why I was like some of these people, they missed it, you know, even though we're in a building. It was funny, Jays.

It's always about perspective because so when you came to Christ, is when I turned away from Christ, when I was 14 years old and began just this dark wandering. And it would be 18 years old when I would come back, you know, come back home and literally come back to Christ. And what was interesting is Lisa and I got married, not too long after that. And so you guys were already at this little church. Now, I'm brand new Christian and had been in the world and have been living like dad had lived and worse to me, you know, from my perspective. And so when I came into these group of people, the crusty people you're talking about, it was, even though it was like, I mean, all the years I would serve, I would never do things the way that we're done. But I loved it.

I loved the people because for the first time, it was like I had, I was free. And so which shows you about the power of the gospel because dad, I mean, I knew the gospel. I knew it backwards and forwards, but my heart wasn't ready to cross over and embrace what the gospel means. what the gospel meant until finally I was broken to a place where then I was ready. And so I was leading singing out this little place. And of course, it was funny

because you don't really lead singing on a situation like that. It was two sisters that would take over and you just hoped that the right one got it. Because if the one that couldn't sing took it, we were going right off the cliff. But it was my experience. It was really hard.

We all went back to White Sperry Road, which is the best thing we ever did. But it was hard for Lisa and I, because we had found community in that little place. And even though it wasn't very dynamic, it was just all about being in a place where finally we had newness. And so you and I both talked about that in the last podcast, we talked about that,

but our perspectives on how we came to Christ were so different. And yet it was still wrapped up in the same man with the same message. Well, it's funny because when they decided to leave, I was like, what took you so long? Let's go somewhere with some fire. You know, and really it was a catalyst to me growing because when they moved to WFR and all of a sudden, here's other teenagers who were on fire for the Lord. And I'm like, now that's when I felt like, okay, because to me, I just was struggling with that. I thought, you're not living in attitude, the thrilling nature of, gee, I was thrilled by it.

And so was Phil. and Phil was trying to get them fired up but I was like all these people are too far gone because you're immature and you're wanting everybody to be thrilled by it but that's why I'm thankful that I got to see God in not a church building setting you know I mean Phil's story happened in the world

and through him trying to be a better dad to me you know he's taking me hunting and now I'm kind of tying the creation with, you know, what the Bible's saying also. And I'm like, this is the God that we're following. Oh, he sent Jesus. But I was having these create. My moments really were in creation where I was thinking about God,

which led me to studying the Bible. I love that. I think it's encouraging, too, if you're listening, and you're like, man, I don't know the Bible would have. How do I share my faith? Because we get that question a lot. How do we? And I want to share my faith like you guys.

But like, if you hear like your testimony is, it wasn't even what Phil had said. You had heard the gospel, the simple gospel. Oh, yeah. It was when it was connect. I think what you... It didn't connect to me with a church building, you know? It just, what that was...

Which is funny that it was in the church building there that you heard. Exactly. He's saying everything in here that he's saying out there. And it was like, Phil was, for you, was erasing what's called the secular, sacred divide. And he was like, and Phil was like, and that's all sacred. It's all his.

This is my father's world. You know what had helped me really understand fundamentally that I think a lot of religious people can't get. What's that? Is that God uses people, you know, and he lives in people through His Holy Spirit, despite their baggage and struggles of, you know, keeping the old man away. It really helped me understand that. And I think it's the same problem with Jesus.

I know we were supposed to be in John 8 today, but this has been, you know, a good preview of it, is that they were struggling that God could be a human. And I think we still see the same struggle today Because we're like, oh, we're so bad You know, God could never use us But oh, he does He makes us into new creations We have the Holy Spirit and he uses us

But you have to realize that That it's, you know, there's a messiness That comes along with it Because we are people and we are humans And we get it wrong, you know, as far as like from a theological standpoint Yeah. I mean, why do you have to talk in a holy tone

to tell me how good Jesus is. It just seems so embarrassing to me. I can't listen to anything. God says it's not authentic, is what I thought, because he'll walk out of the building, and then he would talk right. Yeah, you're like, what's real, which I think is like the passage that popped up in my mind

was Revelation 12. It says, and they conquered him. This is how they conquered him. By the blood of the lamb and by the word of their testimony. And I thought, man, what, like, what is the testimony? And the testimony is that, yeah, I'm not equipped. Yeah, I'm still... Well, right.

It's like Acts 1 says the same thing. And I heard... I think I mentioned this before, but... Because I heard a sermon by your buddy Tyson on this. And he did something really funny. Because, you know, here's Jesus. He's fixing a leave. He provided, you know, all the proof, gave many convincing priests that he was live.

But then he's like, but what did he say? He said, I don't want you to leave because I have this, the spirit I'm going to pour out. I'm going to give you power to do this. And then it says the same thing, and you will be my witnesses. It goes to that testimony. Yeah. But he did something funny in it because he said, I think we read this like with a British tone. It's like, you know, don't leave, you know.

It's not time yet. And he's like, no, he was saying, I'm going to give you power to testify. You know, about me. Of course, he did the imitation, you know, better than I could do. And you don't have to have all the right words because my spirit is going to dwell in you. Exactly. It's his power, not our power. You're fixing to take over the world.

You're going to be me in the world. And there's going to be a bunch of you. And it's going to be contagious. And so it's more of a movement type thing than we're. And, you know, here we are setting up these little buildings. And you're like, this is not, I think, what he had in mind. No, the kingdom is in our midst. It's where.

And you can see it and feel it when you're a monk. When you're among the kingdom, you know you're among the kingdom because you can feel the spirit. So that's why I always, when people have bad religious experiences, I'm just, because they happen because it's filled with messy, sinful people. And it's like who are maybe immature or have a detached view of God working, you know, in people. It's like they're not seeing their lives. And I'm like, you've got to be patient here. This is,

this is the way he chose to do this. You're never going to find some perfect, you know, group that you go in and say, oh, you know, they all have this baggage. But you walk in, like, you kind of know when you're like in certain settings and you just feel an authentic move of the spirit. Like you just feel the Holy Spirit is in the room. He's present.

He's active in the ministry with you. there is a power that comes from that type of authenticity and sincerity. And I think the reason why it's authentic and sincere, which is our testimony, is not that we manufacture it, which was Paul's point. I didn't come to you with wise and persuasive words. Exactly. It's a demonstration of what? The spirit's power.

Exactly. That's the thing. Because I kept going back to Phil's lifetime. I was like, something happened. As bumpy as it was, it was like it was a drastic, this. This is so drastic. It has to be super. I was looking for a text you sent me.

I can't find out where it's at, but it was something I said, and I forgot how you said it. I sent you a text, I wouldn't feel past, and you had responded to something like, I don't know, this is me paraphrasing, oh, it's on.

It was something like, like this has been a wake-up call. This is, this is re-invigured. No, I said, I think, I was struggling because what I didn't like, I mean, look, if you said this to me, don't get offended.

But people came up and they were like, we're so sorry for your loss, you know, and I get it. They're trying to encourage me. But I thought, there's nothing lost here. Not zero. Yeah. You know, I want to read you this. You just said, this perfect, because I've gotten hundreds of text and emails and stuff posted. It's really been great for me.

But this one described exactly how I was feeling, and you just said it, is from one of our favorite people, Jay's being you both, Anna Tomlinson, just an amazing woman. But she always has a way. And she said, I'm praying for you and your family. We love you tremendously. Can't only imagine the whirlwind of emotions you felt over the last months the past week. So grateful for the obedience of Jan and Bill and then feels, which changed the trajectory of your family, which then influenced the changed trajectory of y'all's marriage, which then changed the trajectory of hours, and that's a long story. Wow.

I've thought about the different emotions felt after a loved one passes, but for Phil, the only emotion I keep thinking of is the emotion you would feel after watching someone you love cross the finish line of a marathon race. Such pride and excitement and celebration and well done. You know it wasn't always great. You know he got tired, but he never wavered. His eyes always on the finish line, and then she put in all caps. and he has crossed it.

And, you know, I just captured the emotions I've been feeling because I just haven't been sad. I felt like the race was run so well, you know, and it was just, you know, and I'm excited about it. I remember the quote, I told you, because I said, what it has been is a celebration of Phil's life and how God used him and a call to action. That's what I'm called action. Yeah.

And I think that's what it is. And look, you brought up Reed, and I'll circle back to the. put a button on that. That's what he's mostly said. He said, boy, people in Nashville have no idea when I head back. His response to when are y'all going to leave, which everybody thought, Jays, how could you say that?

His response was, he said, the people have no idea what's in store for them when me and Brighton go back to Nashville. And he said through the gospel of Jesus. I mean, he just, it ignited, you know, the same fire that's been there. But he thought, okay, man down, and people in the family need to stand up and carry the torch. It's been a next generation thing.

When he said that, I said, when Reed said that, I said, now we're talking. Now we're talking. And that call extends to the Unashamed Nation. It's a call to action for the Unashamed Nation. You guys have been with us from the beginning. I said, we're ready to roll. Boots on the ground. It's taken us a while to get back.

Into the groove, understandably, I think. Yeah. But John 8 is a humdinger. And thank you, Unashamed Nation, for your patience and letting us, you know, have these conversations with you because it's good for us too.

So we love you guys. And we'll see you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications

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