Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1118 | Jase Gets Bumped on Live TV & Phil’s Unreleased Recording Brings the Family to Tears

Episode Date: June 30, 2025

Jase gets a last-minute wake-up call—literally—when his live Fox TV interview gets canceled just minutes before airtime, after hours of prep and a full camera crew setup. While Jase pulls back the curtain on the chaos and inconvenience of showbiz, the guys laugh about what Phil would’ve said if he were here. Zach reveals he discovered a never-before-heard 90-minute voice recording of Phil teaching on the kingdom here and now. The discussion returns to John 10, where Jesus calls himself the Good Shepherd, and the guys dig into why that image still hits hard today, especially when you realize the one watching over you once walked in your shoes. — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. We're in our boxes, Zach. Yeah. You're in North Carolina. I'm in Gold Shore. Jason's in West Monroe. We have much of the country covered today. So what's been going on in your world of North Carolina? That's what I want to know. North Carolina is rolling. I did have a very interesting discovery. Jason, you got me thinking about it because you mentioned that you had discovered some notes that Phil had written.

Well, yeah, a guy Phil brought to the Lord and part of, you know, Phil was real big on, you know, once you're, this is not just about getting in. Yeah. This is, you are now a member of the kingdom of God. Yeah. We are to image the glory of God. and we have the Holy Spirit in us. So he was all the time trying to disciple the young Christians. Well, this fella, Bradley, is his name, lives in northeast Arkansas now.

He was asking Phil for, you know, because, you know, my dad, he didn't, like, read commentaries and all that. So he was like, the guy wanted something. Internet. Yeah, he was looking. He also had no computer to, like, keep notes. Like, I've got detailed notes for 20s. 20 years, but dad, everything he did is on a yellow notepad. So he literally takes his lesson out that he had just given,

and it happened to be on the kingdom, and gave it to him. And so then he's sending me a picture wanting to get a handwriting expert to see if that was my dad's handwriting. But I knew it immediately. I said, oh, yeah, that's it. I've heard that sermon many times. Well, you got me thinking when you said that. It's so funny because, like, we talk about the kingdom a lot.

And on some level, like, I think we've like figured some stuff out and like you kind of pat yourself in the back. And particularly because like at the end of Phil's life, I don't know if you guys remember we had several conversations with Phil on the kingdom. He's like, yeah, you boys, y'all taking this to another level, like almost like he couldn't engage in the conversation anymore. Now we know why because he had dementia. But I'm like, you know, we've talked about this. But how much of this stuff do we actually get from sitting with Phil? Well, I have all these recordings on my phone from like years ago that I, just conversations that I recorded with Phil, like for book writing, all kind of stuff. And I'm just like, you know what?

I forgot I had all of these recordings that have, I've never even listened to them. And they've never been heard from anybody. And so I said, I know I asked him one time to tell me your whole spill on the kingdom. I remember I asked him that. So I probably have, I got hundreds, maybe thousands of voice notes on my iPhone. And I started to scroll through to find it. And here's the irony of the whole thing. I scroll all the way to the very first voice note that I had on this particular phone, which is 2016.

And it was titled Phil Kingdom. And it's an hour and 34 minutes of Phil giving me. the whole, like, Bibb, and it is, and I listened to it. I listened to the whole thing. I was like, dang,

this is exactly what we're talking about every single week. And it was so encouraging this to think about, you know, that he arrived at a lot of the same conclusions that a lot of people arrived at that we listen to now with no commentaries, no internet,

just, I'm just reading the Bible. It is a, at some point I need to figure out a way to release that because it is such a, I mean, it is like, it's gold.

I need to say awesome. Exactly. He did have the Holy Spirit of God, as do we. And so that's why the same one that wrote this Bible. So I think there's your connection. There's your time. Well, it's true. I made a point in the funeral saying that, you know,

what I saw in my dad was him becoming like Jesus. You know, because Jesus had no formal training or, you know, anything like that. And then we, you know, I read that first time four in the funeral about in this world, we are like him. And Phil always was proud of the fact that he was a lot smarter than he looked. And it was just from sheer Bible study. I mean, what do you do on a riverbank

when you have no computer, no cell phone? He didn't really watch TV much, you know, until his later years. I mean, so it's like in between hunts or getting ready to hunt, he just sat there and studied his Bible. I mean for years, didn't he? I mean, he went through Bibles, like a lot of people go through wardrobe, I guess, you know?

Yeah. Because even though most of his wardrobe had holes and all that, it just became more cool, I guess, in his mind. Well, the recording is like, hey, Phil, give me your spill on the kingdom. And then he just, he opened up his Bible. And, I mean, he just, I mean, at first he's like, he started in Genesis. And then he went through. I was laughing because he got to Genesis 6 and he says, oh, hey, I mean, the world got wicked.

I mean, hey, it was just a free-for-all. You say, was it a free-for-all? We had a good feel moment. We were trying to, I had a story that happened that I'll share. Look, you want to know how the sausage is made and what they call the show business world? I'll tell you what happened. but then to break the tension and for all parties involved,

we had a moment when we're like, what would Phil have said about this? Because what happened, so we're a couple, not quite a couple weeks removed from Father's Day, but we have a new season of our show Duck Family Treasure coming out on Fox Nation. And so they dropped the first episode of the new season, on Sunday Father's Day.

So look, they reached out to us and said, hey, how would y'all like to be on Fox and Friends? And we'll do a little tribute, you know, to your dad because it's Father's Day. And y'all can talk about the new show. So what am I going to say? No, I thought, oh, that's great. You know, even though I don't have to do that, I thought, I love the show. I think it's a good show.

And I thought, you know, I think it's time. You know, we're celebrating Phil, and I don't mind having a conversation. So me, Jep, and our wives, Missy and Jessica, all agree to do this. And so they're sending a camera crew from New Orleans. So, but the spot was going to be at 6.50 a.m., which means that we basically have to get up at 5 because the camera crew is coming at 5. And a funny story on that, I set my alarm, but it didn't go off. And so at 515, I just awoke.

And there's a camera crew just like bumping into each other behind my house where, you know, I have a little pool in the pitch black dark. Because I looked out and saw their cars, and I'm like, where are they at? And so they had tried to call me, but, you know, I didn't have my ringer on. So I opened the doors. Hey, it was so funny there. I was like, I can't believe y'all didn't fall in the pool. But anyway, they come inside, they start getting ready.

You know, you think you got Missy and Jessica, they're doing makeup, all the, it's early. It's a Sunday morning Father's Day. Go through the whole thing. We sit down. We're in the four chairs. They get the set right. We have the earpieces in. literally hearing the producer when they said two minutes till airtime, my phone goes off,

because now I had put my ringer on and I thought, duh, I need to put my ringer off. What if that goes off while we're filming? And so when I reached down, well, somebody had sent me a text message. Of course, it never occurred to me. Who would be sending me a text message at 6.50 on Sunday morning? Well, it was the powers that be. They said, we're so sorry due to the war. we're going to cancel your bit.

And I was like, wait, what? I'm talking to a producer. So I was like, I got a message saying we're, I mean, just like two minutes before. And of course, Missy was like, this war has been going on for days, which it had. Yeah. A war started eight days ago or whatever. And so, you know, the part I was saying, because Missy was like, I cannot believe, two minutes before. And, I mean, it never happened.

And then the next day, they sent a text that, how about next Sunday? And Missy's response was so funny. She was like, to them. She's like, let me sleep on that and get back to you. And by sleep on it, I mean sleep till 7.30 in the morning. She's still sleeping, Jay. She's still sleeping. Think about, look.

You got bumped. You got bumped. This camera crew got up at midnight, drove from New Orleans, you know, and all this. And turn my house into a studio. I mean, it took them an hour just to deconstruct something that never happened. Who did you get bumped for? Who was the, who was the altru? No, it was just the war, the ongoing Iran-Israel conflict.

But Missy's point was, this is. this had been going on for three days, you know. Well, my thing, look, we all do production. And by the way, Jays, this has happened to us before with dad. We flew to New York and we're there waiting in a green room. And all of a sudden they come out and say, sorry, guys. Oh, yeah, it's happened. Yeah, that's why.

But here's my tape. I mean, we're all in production. How hard would it have been for one of the hosts who's not covering whatever was breaking in the moment to go ahead and do the interview? And then you can stick it in whenever you want. to. And the guy who was going to do the interview, which he probably never even knew what was going to happen. I mean, he was probably getting ready. And then they said, no, we cut that. You know, it was Joey Jones. He's been on it. Yeah, I think it was Triple J. Yeah. And so,

anyway, it never happened. But the reason I saw that about Phil is because, you know, I said, you know what he would have said if that happened. Because here's it, we're going to do a tribute for you, you know, and we're going to announce your new show. the new season, it's excited. I could hear Phil saying, you know what he would have said? That. He would have said that bunch. Yeah.

Because he's... Good. I mean, that's just pitiful. I mean, we got all ready to go here this bunch, you know. So, anyway, no hard feelings. It's part of what they call show business life. But I am proud of the show, and if you want to watch it, there's probably a couple new episodes out there.

I'm seeing it all over my Instagram feed. So they're definitely marketing it. Yeah, and I mean, it's just the nature of live TV. You know, things happen. And look, I'm not, I mean, I realize there's a war going on. So I was wondering why we were doing it in the first place, you know, even though I think it was like day three or four of it. But, I mean, they were just, because we brought that up in the talks.

I was like, well, are you sure this is the right thing to be, you know, doing while there's a war going on? But so we were only upset that we got that far down the rabbit hole of, you know, a ruined Sunday. Oh, yeah. And getting up early, you know. So it happens. Well, they tried to contact me during the – I did a couple news hits during the storm that hit here. But then after they canceled the first one, then they tried to probably schedule six more with me.

I'm like, I'm not getting up at 5 a.m. to do a news hit. Yeah, well, that was – Knowing that it's about a 20% chance of you're going to bump me for something else. I said, if it's like mid-morning, I'm open, you know, but that's a hard deal. Well, it's the whole, Jay's is right. It's the sausage-making process. We used to say the worst ask in the world is to ask one of our friends to be an extra on the duck show. Because that meant all day filming for about two and a half seconds of you walking by in the background.

Or you might not even make it. I've told this story before, the former mayor of Monroe, we actually not just filmed a little clip, two whole scenes that he was involved in and was gracious with this time. And they were funny scenes. I mean, he went and shot Skeet with my niece Sadie. And then somewhere in the cutting room floor,

those scenes never made it to the air. And he, you know, I saw him one time at an event, and he was like, hey, whatever happened to? me, duck man. I was like, what do you mean? What happened to you? I was thinking, because he was no longer the mayor, so I thought, I didn't have anything to deal with that. I didn't know what he was talking about. He's like, I don't live in mudra. He's like, no, those scenes I did, they were, they, I watched them all. I was never shown. And I was like, you weren't? I mean, I wasn't aware. And I said, hey, welcome to show business.

For whatever reason, they just ran something else. I mean, there's, I keep thinking, whatever happened to the footage, like there's many missing scenes, including I know at least one entire episode that was never aired. And I'm like, is that going to be like, when we're all dead and gone,

somebody comes up and it's like, the Lost Duck Dynasty episodes, you know? I think it's an interesting. interesting question i've got a ton of footage not duck dynasty but i've got a ton of stuff out i mean just that stuff i found with phil i'm going through looking at all that i'm thinking my goodness i have hours of content that it's never been released we did we did uh we did about 15 or 20 podcasts with me with me dad and dan oh i'm sure they'll surface somewhere dan the butler i've got that lost episodes yeah i forgot about because at the beginning of the unashamed podcast jason wasn't involved right

It was you. Well, that sounds like I chose not to. I didn't know you were doing it. No, no, no, no. It was, no, actually, the first one, we just watched. And it was good, but it was like, this is going to get old quick. We need more interaction. So you're basically saying, I'm a guest that never left.

It's just kind of true. Well, I'm a host that never left because I was just a producer. I was just kind of helping out because I wasn't sure dad could do it. That's funny. Well, to tie up that story about the Lost Duck, dynasty episodes, what probably happened? This is just my theory, conspiracy theory, is, you know, we had this problem

when we were filming our duck movies for years, you know, that people still watch. I guess they still find BCR somewhere because I think they were VHS. But somehow they got on the internet, so I don't know, they somehow transitioned them digitally. Well, they can do that, Jay.

But what I was going to say, some of the greatest scenes that ever happened when we were filming that, the cameraman had his camera on, and then when the action started, he turned it off, in essence, not recording. And so when we get back to watch the footage, it was just a gray screen of nothing.

So, I mean, that could even happen. You know, they might have had camera problems or who know. You know, you don't know what you don't know. So there's probably a reason those episodes didn't. Because they were, you know, I mean, I thought they were good. good episodes. They just,

they just, it's a brutal process that one of my worst memories is the family reunion episode of Duck Dynasty where we all showed up at K& Phil's house

for a family reunion in a wrestling match and it was so cold and, I mean, it was, that was shown, yeah,

they aired that. It was brutal. They aired it, but it was, it was, to your point on the, if you come on the set, you know,

production is a hard thing. It's a brutal process. But we got to, We got a lot of good stuff out there. This is easy. What we do here is easy because we just getting here and talk about the Bible. Exactly. What's what we do anyways?

It's easy for us. Maddie might disagree. That's true. We'll leave that for another day. One quick thing before we get into the study, I do want to tell everybody again, remind y'all you get a few more days. If you want to sign up at hayjack.com, we're going to give away a $500 voucher for anyone that signs up for a free account.

If you want to boat travel, there's tremendous savings. So go sign up today. That's free. And enter to win the 500 bucks. So I want to get back to the discussion that we started and talking about the Son of Man, which we got into a little bit deeper on the last podcast. We're still kind of fleshing this thought. It's so rich because to me it's such a great tide.

And by the way, where we're headed in John 10 is then a whole new picture that's very Old Testament-driven. So I think that's the reason John is working all this end to his narrative that Jesus says this, because he's going to go from Son of Man to Shepherd in the next one. Jay's, that's all over the Old Testament as well. Well, exactly, and I just wanted to interject. We did, John, a few years ago. I think it was the first book that we did. It was actually the first book we did on the Unashamed Pocket.

What's different is we're looking at it this time with more of that Old Testament history. So if you hadn't figured that out by now, that's what we're doing. Which really brings a lot of stuff to light. Because I'm pretty sure the first time through, we just read the verse that, okay, do you believe in the son of man? And so what we tried to do on the last three rabbit holes is to really look into what that means. Because when you realize it, you come out of that rabbit hole ready to run through a wall for the Lord on this earth. now.

And I wanted to, before you give us the, just the practical applications, Al, I had just yesterday a buddy of mine, Chad, the nurseman. I think we've talked about him before. He had an interesting conversation with a fellow about Jesus, and he called me because we're setting up a Bible study. But the question he asked, because what happened was, you know, here he is, a guy asking him a question and about Jesus. Well, he just wasn't, you know, you don't have that happen very often. And so then he kind of started looking back on what he said. So he called me and he's like,

what should I have said? Or he was asking my opinion. Like when you have these conversations come up, but the guy asked this question, which I thought was really interesting, and I wrote it down so I'd get it right. He asked the question, how do I know for sure? who Jesus was historically, which, you know, I told Chad, it's a compliment when you're living a life where someone that you don't know very well comes, reaches out to you and asks you this question. You know, that was the first thing I did. I was like, look, I no longer believe in accidental arrangements and encounters with people because I think that's what God uses us to do. And so he said, I didn't really know where to go off the top of my head, and I thought what he did was fine.

But when I heard that question to go in with our study, I said, I think if someone would ask me that specific question, how do I know, because he's asking about Jesus, who he was is historically accurate. I said, I would have had to bring up at some point, what about who Jesus is? Yeah. And, you know, we've been studying about I am. And I said, because those kind of questions come from God being a million miles away, or he was here a long time ago. And presently, people tend to view, especially in America,

that God's out there somewhere a long ways away, you know. Yeah. And so I was just going to bring that to light, all this son of man and this kingdom stuff, and Jesus at the right hand of God. I mean, he's ruling now. And we have his spirit. And therefore, since we have surrendered to the king, we are his ambassadors here on earth,

which gets into that verse, you know, when Jesus prayed, I pray that your kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven. And I believe that's happening because we're following the king. And I love how you make that, those spiritual conversations that you can have wherever you run. to people or you have those opportunities. I was wearing this shirt that I'm wearing today on the podcast if you're watching on YouTube.

It says, Speak Jesus, which is a, it was a theme one year from our One Kingdom Sunday. And I was checking out in the line here at the local grocery store in Gulf Shores. And I said something about she's asked me where I'm from, which is typical because there's so many tourists down here. And I said, well, I'm from Louisiana. I said, but I have some property here. And we live here too. And then she looked up at me and she said, are you?

Are you one of those Duck Dynasty people? I was just the way she framed it. And I was like, yeah, I'm what's left of one of them. Yeah. And she said, I knew it. I recognized your voice and I saw you had speak Jesus on your shirt. I knew you had to be one of those people. And I thought, man, what an ultimate compliment that you would be a Jesus person, you know,

just because of something you wear or something you want. And then we had a great conversation as we're checking out about that. The reach is broad. We had a lady come in from California from L.A. And she said she found our podcast during COVID. Her sister lives on a hippie commune here in Asheville. So she was in town visiting her sister. But she had, I mean, just totally turned her life into Jesus.

I said, I listened to y'all's podcasts, every single one. I started back in 2020. I've caught up. And she's in a great church there. And it was kind of encouraging just to hear, you know, the tentacles. He said, now there's not a lot of people like y'all in L.A. She did tell me that. I don't know if that's shocking you are or not.

But I think those I speak Jesus people, they're all over the country. So it's kind of, it's always fun to be able to find them. So let me kind of take what we've been talking about the last couple of podcasts because we did quite the deep search on this idea of son of man. But, Jay, at the very beginning of the discussion, you brought something very interesting that I didn't realize to you asked us. The two things that Jesus referred to himself, one was the son of man, which we just did a deep dive on.

The other one was the I am. And I've always looked at it in a practical sense that it just boils down to Jesus being God. And that's what the I am part of that means is he is God. He and the Father are one, which comes up a lot in this text. But he is us. He is also man and humanity. And so one of the texts that I didn't know if you were going to bring it up or not was Hebrews 2, where the Hebrew writer who goes back and does so much of this Old Testament shadows and things and brings it forward,

he directly addresses this idea about the son of man. And here's the way he put it in Hebrews 2 and verse 5. It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come about which we are speaking, but there is a place where someone has testified. And then he's going to quote Psalm 8. And he says, same thing. What is man that you are mindful of him, the son of man, that you care for him? So this is, again, a prophetic passage about this coming son of man.

You made him a little lower than the angels. You crowned him with glory and honor and put everything under his feet. And then it goes on to describe the rest of that text with some other Old Testament references. And then, of course, the part at the end of that chapter, he says, since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their hair humanity. So that by his death, he might destroy him as the power over death. So in a very practical way, you understand that when he refers to himself as the son of man, he's saying, I came here to live and to be one of you and to give my life for you so that you may have eternal life. So, I mean, it's just the super practical side of that's really what it meant all along. I think that's a great point.

And I was going to make a point, you know, during the Son of Man rabbit hole, that there's not a lot of references after the Gospels, but that is one of them. And when you read Psalm 110, I was going to bring up, you know, what he said in Hebrews too. And I just wanted to read a couple of verses in Psalm 110 because I didn't realize how it kind of hyperlinked up until you read that. But just listen, I'll pick three verses out of Psalm 110.

The first verse says, The Lord says to my Lord, this is David, saying, sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet. Well, you just read that in Hebrews, too. Well, you know what Psalm 110 in verse 4 says? the Lord has sworn and will not change his mind. You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.

Well, where's that at? That's in Hebrew 6 and 7. You know, where it's impossible for God to lie. And the reason Jesus came to be priest and a representative, it was not based on a regulation. It's one of my favorite verses in the Bible. But it says it was based on the fact of having an, indestructible life.

And then in Psalm 110 and verse 5, it says, the Lord is at your right hand. He will crush kings on the day of his wrath. He will judge the nations. And so, I mean, you see this judgment. You see this at the right hand of God. You see why he's our priest. You see why he became a human.

And the only other verse I wanted to mention, and I think it's very powerful. after the Gospels. As you remember when Stephen was stoned after he kind of went through the whole idea of who Jesus is and that he didn't live in temples built by hands,

implying that he was the temple and he's like, y'all can't even keep the law and so they stoned him. And I want to just read this. This is Acts 7 and verse 56. And this is right, or I'll read 55. But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven,

and saw the glory of God and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, which it all goes back to this Daniel 7 and exalted. In verse 56, look, he said, I see heaven open and the son of man standing at the right hand of God, which is incredible because now this is post-death-barrel resurrection. This is post-Jesus referring to himself as the, the son of man, 80 to 100 times. And Stephen, he's still making that connection that look.

That's a good point. The son of man, and he wasn't just sitting, he was standing, which is the only time that's ever mentioned in the entire Bible. And you can make the practical applications of that, but I mean, you can't help but think when somebody is willing to give their life for Jesus, it makes Jesus stand up and take notice. And I just think it's very powerful. And that's why we wanted to go down the rabbit hole

because you just realize how powerful this is right now that you're surrendered to the king of kings. This is, I have a mission to do. I have a job to do. I mean, let's go. Which I think that that Acts 7 passage that Stephen says, I see the son of man standing. at the right hand of the father.

I think that's what he's talking about in Mark 13, and they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. I think that's what he's talking about. Again, we want to associate everything with the end times when a lot of what's happening in the Gospels is a lot of it. Most of it is more about the kingdom that's coming right now. Right here. The end times in the Old Testament.

That's why I pointed that out in Daniel, too. That phrase was used as Jesus coming to earth. And then what he was going to do. Like the Old Testament, when you go from Hebrew to Greek, it's like the same words, which is that eschatol, the end of times. So that's why people get confused and go down into so many different kind of theologies and doctrines. Because just like when you said that, when you say end.

in times, people immediately say, oh, well, that's the end of all times. Yeah. But there's a lot of phrases in the Bible that use end times as when Jesus would come, that would be the end of those times. And you have the same vein when he gives those predictions about the temple being destroyed in AD 70. And even the new heaven and new earth, there's many times that phrase is used, not speaking of the very end, but it would like be a new heaven and new earth, a new world

for the Jewish community post-Jesus resurrection, right hand of God. That's a great caveat. But you also said that if you hadn't caught on yet, the way we're going to the book of John this time is we're going back to the Old Testament references and hanging out in there. So that's why we honestly have stuck so long in John chapter 9, because that phrase, son of man, I mean, I read over it for years. And I just limited it to mean, well, there's the Son of God, his divineness, and then there's the Son of Man, which is His humanity.

But I don't think I ever interpreted it in its full context coming out of these prophets like Daniel and Ezekiel. But it really does change the way you're going to read the scripture. And so the more that you think about that question, do you believe in the Son of Man? Now, every time you see that word son of man in the Gospels, it's going to elicit, if you listen to the last four podcasts we've done, it's going to elicit in your mind, oh, that's that Daniel 7 thing. That's what he's talking about. It's going to change the way you read it. It also helps you with the concept, and Jason, you and I've talked about this before, of the power of the ascension of Jesus. You know, it's kind of one of those lost elements of his story. A lot of times in people's minds because they think, well, he just left. And, you know, we're just waiting. around to hopefully he'll come back instead of saying, wait a minute, we now belong in the other realm because he brought that realm to us as the son of man. I mean, that really changes your whole perspective on living for the kingdom while you're here, which is part of that

practicality that we just mentioned there. I mean, he was made like us in every way. And so when you see that moment in Act 7, you're seeing the moment of Stephen looking up and saying, we belong now because of the son of man, even at the point of death, because they were about to kill him, and he knew it. Well, right. And I wanted to say this. I've been wanting to say this for four podcasts. So if you don't, if you haven't listened to the three before this, go back and listen to them and then fast forward to this point. Because it's not going to do any good unless you've listened to the last three. You like how I'm doing this, Maddie? I'm trying to create viewers for you. Because I want to make this segue, and Al, you tried to do it.

Because we're going to go to John 10. And I just want to read something in John 10 that we're going to get to. So this is one of the I am statements. This is John 10, 11. He says, Jesus says, I am the good shepherd. And you're like, oh, yeah, well, isn't that, the Lord is my shepherd? You immediately think Psalm 23. 23, yeah.

But look, if you go back and realize the whole reason we're doing this son of man thing, when John the Baptist saw Jesus, you remember what he said in chapter one, he said, look, the lamb of God. Look, the lamb of God. Well, so some of you who may be new to this, well, you're like, well, which is it? Is he a lamb or is he a shepherd? and I think that's why he zeroed in on the Son of Man idea is because what you read in Hebrews too, he became a human.

So when you go to Hebrews 4, it's like we have a shepherd, a priest who's been tempted in every way just as we are, yet was without sin. So he's able to help those. What's crazy about this is God wanted you to see in Jesus that he became a man. my son became a human. And it's a fascinating thought. God became a human. And why?

Because he would, you know, it shows his humility. We went through those three things, those kind of three legs. He would suffer and die and give his life, you know, because he loves us. For God so loved the world that he sent his son.

And he would turn out to be a lamb that was sacrificed. But it's like, well, he's a sheep. He became a sheep. And you just go, go study. the characteristics of being, you know, of what a sheep is. And it's quite revealing to see the comparison to way humans are. But then he, he's the shepherd also exalted. So I just think it's,

what would you call that? It's, it's an illustration that he's using that has a lot of thought-provoking material for you, you know, to wrap your head around. who God is. And remember, the context of what we're talking about here is people who should know better. We said this from Nicodemus in John 3, because now he's talking about spiritual blindness in our context, and he was like, you claim you can see, but you can't see. And then all this evidence is there. Another one that we didn't even get into, which we've talked about before, which I've

always thought was really powerful, was the two different genealogies. You know, in Matthew 1, you see the one that goes from Abraham down to John. Joseph, kind of that royal lineage, you know, through the promise, which is kind of that I am promise. But then you get over in Luke 3 and you see the link to Adam, which I believe it goes back through Mary's line, which is physical line because he didn't really have a father on earth. And it goes all the way back to Adam. But it shows you that he's always been prepared, both as our king but also as a man to do what he did.

And there's just, there's so many pictures. It's hard to believe it was missed. in the first century when it was missed. But that's the point of the end of John Chapter 9. Well, right. And when you get into John 10, it really is a perfect kind of segue of the argument that Christ is making when he asked the question, do you believe in the son of man?

Because the picture that he's painting there is a picture of sovereignty, power, which you say, well, is it just a submission to him? Is he just saying, do you believe that I'm in control, bow down before me? Is that kind of like, is that the vibe he's going? I don't think it is because if you read John 10, he's going to make the argument. He switches from Son of Man to Shepherd. Actually, first he says, I'm the gate, which is kind of interesting.

I'm the gate and I'm the shepherd and I'm the lamb. He's like all of them. He's like all pieces of it, right? But when he makes his argument in John 10, he's actually saying that you want the shepherd. You don't want just a hired hand. You need the guy in charge. You want the son of man because whoever, is running the show, you want him to run the show because if he's running the show, that means he

owns the sheep. And if he owns the sheep, that means he cares about it. He really cares and he's invested in the sheep. It's just like when I go to a restaurant here, Jill and I figure this out, if you go to a restaurant that is owner operated and the owner is there, the majority of the time that the restaurant is operating, the quality of food, the quality of service, the quality of of the experience is going to be a thousand times better than if somebody just owns it, but they'd ever show up and it's just ran by somebody else. It's just not the same. Anytime that the owner is present in the actual operation, everything's better because he's really, he or she are very invested in it. And I think that's the point he's going to be making in John 10,

is that you need to be glad that Jesus is in charge because the one that's in charge, guess what? It's owner operated. He's going to be in. I mean, to make a stock market portfolio segue application, you're like, wait, what? One of the prerequisites when you're choosing companies, because it's very hard to do, and everybody knows, I do my own. But that, when a company is founder-led, that is top 10. the qualities in my companies that I bought as far as the best companies, a lot of them are founder-led because not only are they invested, then you look and they just,

they own like tons of shares. And I'm like, this guy has got his hat turned around backwards here. It's not a business. He's like, I'm all in. Well, you know what? I'm with you, buddy. You know, let's get on this. I'll buy a few shares and see where we go.

Because I just know that, you know, he's not going to do anything that's going to jeopardize the quality of this company. He's giving it all he's got, you know. So there's your stock tip. If you talk to super savvy investors, and this has been probably the number one piece of advice that I've gotten from super savvy investors who have done very well in their careers. and they all, every one of them I've ever sat and asked, how do you choose what to invest in? They would say, if you come to me with a,

like a business plan, the first question I'm going to ask is, do you have skin in the game? That's what they want to. Does the guy running the company, whoever's going to run the operation, and I love that, does he have skin in the game?

And with Jesus, I mean, you're going to see, not only, I mean, he got skin in the game. I mean, he, you know, would you bleed for the company? And they're like,

I'm going in with that guy. And I think there's a lot of comfort in that. And what we're seeing in the Son of Man, in the incarnation of Christ, is literally he put on skin so that he would have skin in the game. He came in the flesh. He has flesh in the game. Well, it's like, you know, somebody's asked me, you know, what's the secret to being a great duck hunter?

And I always go back to the ducks themselves. I'm like, when I teach somebody how to blow a duck call, I'm like, the way to learn is not to watch a YouTube video and try to imitate somebody, you go find some ducks and you listen to them. And so when you think about what makes Jesus the great shepherd,

well, he became one of the sheep and lived it. And so I'm like, give me a shepherd who used to be a sheep, which in our minds, well, that's not possible. But in the world of humanity, God made it possible. God became a human.

I mean, so you don't think he knows what it is. That's why I looked, and I know we'll get into this into detail. But when you look at sheep, they can almost see like a duck, which I found fascinating, 360. But they're seeing so much, guess what? They have a tendency to wonder, and they don't have a sense of direction because they're driven by, you know, real nice patches of green grass, you know. And so you'll read articles where a thousand sheep, there was over a thousand sheep, that fell off a cliff to their death, because they were all following who, you know, the sheep that was leading them took them to a cliff. And they all just went off, you know, they don't, even though they could, they thought they could see, because they can see incredibly well. but they tend to follow a leader

and in temptations and things, you know, next thing you know, they're falling off a cliff to their death, you know. So there's a lot in the Bible about sheep illustrations. Think Luke 15, and you get into these, at the end of it, you know, when he's talking about finding his lost sheep and carrying it, you know, you're like, well, why would he put it on his shoulders

and carry it? Because they don't have a sense of direction, you know. You look up, they're headed back out. But at the end of that, the point I wanted to make when he got to the sons, he got down to the end and was like, we have to celebrate because he was lost, the son was lost, and he's found. He was dead and he was alive. Well, that takes us back to John 9.

You remember what his overwhelming argument for following Jesus and taking up for him for him was? He was like, I was blind, but now I can see. I mean, that was the big statement. Just when you think of all the transformational statements in the Bible, and that's why we went down that rabbit hole because Jesus is the ultimate shepherd, because he knows us better than anybody. And to transform us would take someone like him, God in human form saying, follow me, and I'll lead you.

That's also the conclusion of the argument that broke out in John 10 when they got to argue. And again, they are saying Jesus is demon possessed. This guy's, what's he talking about Shepard and Gates? And he's possessed by a demon and a fierce argument broke out among the Jews. And a lot of them are like, demon can't make somebody unblind. They can't heal the blind. So that power of God displayed for those who have ears to hear and eyes to see, pun intended, they'll receive the power of God and they'll submit to that because they'll see it as good.

And here's what he said, Zach. He said, do you believe in the son of man? and ultimately the man who now can see said, I believe. I mean, that's the answer we're looking for. Let me read the first 21 verses. I'm going to read the first half because we don't have much time left in this podcast. I'm just going to introduce it. And then we'll get into this on the next one.

Because you can see the transition out of this idea of spiritual blindness. Jesus says in chapter 10, verse one, I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheet pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name, and he leads them out.

When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them and his sheep following because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger. In fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger, your voice. So Jesus just goes right into a parable about sheep. And then John gives us this little thought in verse six. Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling him. So again, the parable's gotten past his audience. So Jesus says again, I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did

not listen to them. I'm the gate. Whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I have come that they may have life and have it to the full. I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. Jack, there's your analogy. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs. runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. And now he says again, I am the good shepherd. I know my sheep and my sheep know me. Just as the father knows me and I know the father and I lay down my life

for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. Uh-oh. I wonder who that is. I must bring them also. They too will listen. listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. The reason my father loves me is that I lay down my life, only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and authority to take it up again. This command I received from the father. At these words, verse 19, the Jews were again divided. many of them said he is demon possessed and raving mad. Well, I listen to him.

But others said, these are not the sayings of a man possessed by a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind? And then there'll be a whole second segment to this. But I thought at least in that first segment, you get the idea that you see the transition back to the previous discussion because they're still in that moment of like who's blind, who can see, what's he talking about? and then he just goes right into this next analogy, which is fascinating. Well, it's a fascinating analogy because he's shepherd and the flock.

And in their culture, everyone was real familiar with that. I mean, I think in the next podcast, we need to do a breakdown of sheep in general because it's fascinating. I've already looked at it. It's so fascinating. And you know why he picked sheep.

Yeah. To have this analogy, just the odd facts about sheep. Well, and Jace, there's almost as much, when I was kind of doing a deep dive on, there's almost as much about the idea of shepherds and God using that reference to himself in the Old Testament,

Yahweh being a shepherd, that it's that same kind of idea that you see from the Son of Man. It's no wonder that he shifted over to that because it's all over the Old Testament about shepherds and sheep. Yeah, and the one theme that you, just by reading that whole section, I mean, how many times did he say he lays down his life? Yeah.

of the sheep over and over. And I love the fact that he says, you know, kind of a let me be clear. No one takes it from me. Yeah. But I'm laying this down on my own accord. And I have authority to lay it down, an authority to take it up again. And the father's the one that gave him that authority. No, that's good.

And we've described this is a very hostile situation that's ongoing, but he's telling them clearly what's coming. So we'll pick this up a lot of great stuff to come on under shit. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.