Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1121 | Willie’s Daughter Sets up a Photo Op & Jase Turns It Into a Safety Hazard

Episode Date: July 4, 2025

Jase coincidentally becomes the star of Bella’s impromptu commercial with back-to-back wins—and Willie misses the shoot entirely, even though it’s in his own yard. The guys wrestle with living lives that reflect the answer to whether Jesus is just a man—or is he God? Jesus redefines power and flips the world’s expectations of kingship, and Zach challenges listeners to think beyond transactional faith and step into a relationship that reflects the intimacy between Jesus and the Father. In this episode: John 10; Deuteronomy 6, verse 4; John 4, verse 23; John 11, verses 11–13; 2 Peter 1, verse 4; Revelation 14, verses 1–4 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So welcome back to the unashamed podcast. I'm excited to be back in studio with you, Jays. You're not alone anymore. What caused that, Al? It got awkward. When you weren't there, it got awkward. Well, I know we had the ladies on. I missed a lot of stuff while I was gone. Well, I hate to confess something. I did not know we were doing podcast today until last night. Because in our world, you know, if you want a week off or something, that's not allowed unless I feel like I'm angry this morning. We've already, just so the audience will know, we've had about a 10-minute counseling session leading into this podcast.

Maddie has been a counselor on set. I'm treading lightly over here. I sense that I'm a thousand miles away. You know, Zach, are you tread lightly today? I'm tread lightly today, not tread lightly. I sense that as soon as I put my, because Jace was over there without his earmuck. Well, it's a big week. It's hard.

We got a lot of podcasts this week we're doing. There's a big event that by the time this airs, it'll already have happened. But the big Faith family, Freedom Event is this weekend. That's this weekend, which my wife is heavily involved in. And then there's a reality show going on. Oh, yeah. Oh, by the way. These people are following me around seeing if something interesting is about to happen.

And then they're like, hey. Hey, can we film this? I mean, it literally is to that point. Reality TV, folks, is not what it's cracked up. I got my head on a swivel now because you have that feeling like you're being followed. You do. And so it's getting weird. And then our favorite little niece, Bella, who's the only one who could pull off what she did yesterday, almost, I guess.

She sent us all a text, apparently individually. Yeah, I did not know you were going to be there. I know, and none of us did. And so she said she had these new things. Duck Commander Golf shirts, which I'm wearing one today. And she said, well, y'all come over and take a picture on Willie's golf green. Because it's in the neighborhood. It was last night.

I said, well, sure. For you, Bella, I'd do anything. So I show up and there's Jeff. And then Jace comes up. Oh, yeah. I realize that I've been part of a coup. Because we used to have a rule in our family that if you have an idea, okay, go see if the idea will work.

And we kind of had an understood rule that this is not going to involve any other family member participating until we know this will work. And it's part of the unspoken Robertson code that we didn't know we had, but it's apparently in our DNA. The problem is the next. When you say work, what do you define work? What do you mean? Well, it's like if you have an idea, so okay. So here's my niece, you know, she comes to the idea. Oh, I'm going to design these golf shirts.

Well, I'm like, well, go see if they'll, go see if the idea resonates with the people. And because if you have another idea, it's like, well, let me get you to wear it. And then we'll see if it'll sell. Well, then it becomes confusing. Because now is it you the son? Are people behind it because they saw Uncle Jace with the one on or Uncle Al? Or is it because they really like the shirt? So, but we have a problem because the next generation, they weren't part of that meeting that said,

look, if your best idea is to get me to promote your idea, let's not do that. Because what we'll do is spend our time trying to see if all your ideas work. Well, we kind of have that agreement. We do. But all those people who are doing that now, they were all little kids. They're kids. So they didn't get it. It really is, it really is the next generation.

It is a revival, Jay. So let me tell you, I hijacked that operation. Now, we were there for what? Five minutes. Five minutes, which is my kind of photo shoot. It didn't take a lot of time. It was hot yesterday. Well, and she was like, you know,

wear your golf shorts and all that. Well, I came, and I had a pair of slacks on because I thought, I ain't putting my bony little leg. What little legs I have, you know. There's a thin line between promoting something and horrifying the world. Because Jay's has the good, That burn genetics that dad had, but he does have the bird legs to go. Oh, yeah.

So I had a little pair of slacks on, you know, I look, I mean, I felt uncomfortable. You know, I do play golf. Jay's shirt was tucked in. Me and Jeff, not so much. By the way, Jeff is now the fat one, which everybody's taking a turn, I guess, but Jay's, and he never will, of being the fat brother. So now it's Jeff's turn. So he told me he's just waiting to make his moves.

I don't know. You never know. I got a plan for him. You need to tell him about the old Ph.D. weight loss. I know. I told him. He's watching me. Well, I mean, you got a member, though. I'm active, Al. Yeah. You are. After this podcast, I'm going to go pick up my two chainsawls because I've had a number of trees fall in my yard.

And my neighbor, who's from California and has yeppy tendencies, every time a tree falls on his property, he calls me, which kind of goes back to the same principle. If your best idea of cleaning up your yard is calling me. Maybe we need to have a conversation. So my chainsaws were in need of repair, and I got them all fixed up. But that equals 10 pounds that I will lose just by fixing the chainsaws. So that'll take care of that whole bag of chips you ate yesterday. I told you that. I was bringing up all my.

I hadn't eaten a Zaps crawledator in a while. And, look, it's Missy's fault. I went in there, she went grocery shopping, and she bought two of the biggest bags of Crawlton. She knows I love them, and I was so happy. They need to sponsor the podcast. I took a nap. I took a nap after I had done the reality show, you know,

that I didn't even know I was doing until the last minute. And I woke up from now, I was tired. And you know how when you just sleep, like, where you think you're, you're literally coming back from the dead. I mean, John 11 here, you know. It's like, am I dead or did I take a nap? I was so hungry, and I just went in there and grabbed, I said, I'm going to eat a couple of these out,

just to get a little taste. I mean, five minutes later, I had eaten that entire bag, which got a response of, did you just eat that whole bag? I said, yeah, I'm picking up my chainsawes tomorrow. it would be all right and she was like i have no idea what that means you're saying it's hard work i mean you and he's going to have his brunt boots on he's going to be out there working right now

in louisiana if you walk outside you just start sweating profusely oh yeah so to finish my story al so here's what happens because what happened yesterday in our little oh let's take two pictures it was very easy very quick i was there early so i finished and left i left y'all there Right after you left, I'm walking to my golf cart. By the way, Willie never showed the pictures. It was supposed to be the four brothers. He never showed us. It was supposed to be the four brothers.

It was three brothers. That his daughter organized. At his house. At his house, which is a short golf cart ride for me. And so, well, they had the cameraman there, which I don't know why he was there. The little cameraman for Duck Commander, he films Duck Hunts. And I was like, what are you doing here? And he's like, well, I just thought something crazy may happen.

So anyway, we literally were there five minutes. took two pictures. I thought, why would you film this? Yeah. And so I'm walking to my golf cart, and then she said, oh, Bella said,

oh, how about we get one picture of you actually hitting a golf shot, you know? Well, the cameraman was ours. I said, turn that on. You never know what's fixed to happen. So I dropped a ball besides Willie's Green. And I was like,

get right behind the hole. I mean, what if I make it? And he was like, I'm not sure. I was like, oh, the last time I chipped some golf balls around the green, which was in Omaha. I played terrible. I was like, I sculled every one of them. So, but I need this. I called a couple yesterday. I need this pressure to try to fix these chipping yups I have. So he got behind the hole. So the first chip, I was, I was over anxious about not hitting, like, you know, putting him in the hospital because he's literally. Oh, so you're hitting right at

him. Oh, I'm hitting right at him, 25, 30 feet away. I'm like, I'm like, five yards off the green. The pin is probably 15, 20 feet on, and he's right behind the hole laying down. So I dropped another ball and I said, okay. Did he not know the danger he was in? I warned him. I said, look, I've got the pitching yips and I'm trying to fix it. I would just wonder if the Duck Commander cameraman job included getting sculled. So, my second attempt, I flopped that thing out of the heavy rough on the green it's in the hall made it

so now it's on camera oh and I mean I'm fist pump I got the cup well there's the shot well then I know what shot Bella's going to use young Bella looked around and said I think we have something better than so listen to this the story gets better

so I'm like I think that'll do it if that won't sell them I don't on on. There's no trick photography. I literally just made it. And so one of the assistants there, as I'm walking up to the golf cart, he said, I can't believe that just happened. And I said, you want me to do it again just to show you that that wasn't an accident? Oh, no. Oh, yeah. And I was backing it? I was kidding. But I just thought, why not? Who know? I literally dropped my bag, grabbed a ball, plopped it down, hit it. It's in the whole. It's in the whole. again from twice as far.

So they think you're some kind of... I don't know if they filmed that. I mean, surely someone had the camera going while that was in. All you needed was a camera on you. So I made two out of three pitch shots. Well, you may have fixed your yips by the photo show. That's what I'm thinking. Yeah.

That's what I was thinking. And so now... Because there's so much feel, you know, that that shot, what you're talking about is all feel. And it's easy to lose it. You know, the pros, I guess they just get so... locked in. They never had it. Well, the second one I have to admit, there was some luck,

because it was harder struck. It went in the hole. It basically hit the back of the pin and went in. It just looked more lucky. The first one looked perfect. I mean, it just rolled up there and just fell in the hole. And he had the camera, because I said, I want to see that. He literally could not have been zoomed up anymore.

You see the shot, the ball just looks huge. And it's just coming toward the hole. And you're like, it just at the last. second started to tail off and just, whoop and all. So I'm sure that's coming to an internet video. We call that the money shots that. Yeah, what's the update?

You were in New Orleans. So I missed the podcast on the last one she did with the ladies because Lisa and I were in New Orleans, which is where she had her breast cancer surgery a little over a year ago. And so we've been back once for a checkup. What happens is within three years of breast cancer, there's the highest chance that you may get it back is within the first three years. So they see you pretty often to do that.

And so we had our one-year checkup. And, you know, we've been confident through this whole process, but at the same time, you know, you always have a little bit of angst. But tests turned out great, no cancer. The doctors were great. And as soon as I walk in, the first thing, both we have like a, there's a plastic surgeon person that kind of puts you back together and then also an oncologist. And the first thing they said to me,

me is, man, what happened to you? Where's the rest of you? So there you go, PhD. But then we had a great conversation. Both of them talked about dad and the influence he had had on them and the world, which I thought was really neat. They were both very appreciative of his work, too. And so one of them said, well, I watched the funeral. And I said, well, you and a few me and others, I said, Dad wanted one last chance to get the gospel out, which he did. So, which is pretty powerful. So thank you for all the prayers out there. You guys are awesome. praying for that. Well, I thought the girls did good on the podcast.

Yeah, I want to know how you guys, so y'all dipped a little bit ahead into John 11. Missy, she does a little program where she mentors women. I think there were, what did she say, in between the ages of 20 and 30, somewhere in there. And she does a little bit from John 11, kind of from the Mary Martha perspective. So it was good.

And then we had, which, ironically, I had to interrupt her one time because she did most of the talking because she had this little lesson. Well, one time she had gone on about a seven, eight minute rant like I do all the time. I was insane.

It's all in the family. But I thought, you know, at the end of the day, this is a conversation. So I kind of interrupted her, you know. Did she give you that look? Yeah, she gave me that luck. She got the luck.

So I had to explain. Which is why they don't do, which is why they don't do, do appearances together, by the way. Well, and I'll tell you what I didn't do. I did not take the opportunity or seize the opportunity to stoke a controversy between Jason and his wife

like you guys did with me when I had Jill on. Well, I was waiting for it. What you don't realize is I was waiting for you. If only I had been here. And if you would have gone that road, I had a line that I was ready to do. But you, fortunately, for you, didn't go down that road. So you were going to reverse it on me.

I was. You know what I was going to say? I was going to say, because I never mentioned this to Zach until now, but I'm doing it in a friendly way. The difference in me and you, I was going to say, is when you went to the national championship run in basketball with Florida, and didn't invite your wife. You left your wife at the house, and I, when I went to the LSU national championship run, she was sitting right next to you. Right next to me. all snuggle up with the greatest seats in the world.

That would have worked. And so whatever you were going to say, that was my comeback. You had a Trump car. That would have been a rebound right back to you. Jill's face would have turned red. And oh, by the way. Crimson red. That's good.

I don't, you know, I don't read the comments and things like that. I deal with real people. But I went out in public yesterday. And I mean, literally. seven out of eight people. I guess this episode we did about the bat is out there. And I get it. If I put a grate on my chimney,

that would stop the problem. I've already addressed that. We're having that done. It's like everybody I bumped into, they were like, here's what you need to do. I got a guy who can put a grate on your chimney. And then the next person I meet, they're like, here's what you do about the bat.

I get it. I should have thought of that. It never registered that, well, maybe if we keep the bats out of the chimney, that would help the problem. Well, it's basically since you've had it before. Yeah, they're just... Well, but they didn't come in the chimney before. Yeah.

The first time my daughter left her door open. Okay. That was a whole different scenario. Okay, I didn't know. This was one big... The time before was a one big group, a flock of bats that flew in my house, synchronized for three days. Yeah.

So this here was just bats coming out of the fireplace every couple of hours. They were way more in attack mode than the first. I thought about it because night before last when we got home, when I went to open my door, there was a bat that was lit on the wreath on my front door. Seriously? Yeah, and I started to open the door. And it flew out right by my face. and I was like, oh, what a chase his bat.

So he was trying to get in my house, but he did. There's definitely been an influx in plagues on Louisiana this year with bats and flies. I mean, everybody I've talked to, they've seen more bats and more flies this year, so I'm not sure what that means. I don't know what it means either. Well, I love it anytime the ladies are owns. I hate I missed it, but I'm sure they filled in and did a great job. I don't know what all you guys got done in John 10, but.

Well, do you really ever get it done? You don't. I mean, maybe if you pick up, I noticed a couple of interesting things. Did y'all talk about just the imagery idea of, you brought it up, Jay, so last time I was on the podcast, maybe two or three podcasts ago, about the idea that the ideal king seems to be modeled by a shepherd more than a kind of what the world sees in a king. We brought that up And because when you think a power I mean just think of like a CEO I mean now in America

You think when you think a powerful people You think about Celebrities or Or CEOs Or government officials Well what happens is they're They become untouchable Right

You can't You can't get access to these people Right And it's a power thing So When you think about Jesus being a shepherd for the sheep, I mean, he's taking that idea of power and turning it on its head because he's out there with the flock. He knows them by name. When he says them, you know, it's like a CEO.

Just think of a, I don't know, pick a CEO of one of the world's largest companies. He doesn't know the employee's name. He's like, who are you? Yeah. You know, they're way down the ladder. and so I think this is way more personal and it's way more powerful when he's like

and I lay down my life for the sheep so and I also think it's this idea of dependence on God because if you think about it the two biggest examples I think of and I think of this imagery that Jesus brings up here

the first one is Moses which Zach you're right in the middle of this and you're preaching is you know Moses was raised in the house of Pharaoh, learned how to be a king of the greatest dynasty on earth at the time, the Egyptians. At 40 years old, he thinks it's his time to rule because he's been raised for this moment.

He goes out here and he has this moment. He kills this guy that's, you know, abusing this Hebrew person. And he thinks this is his moment to seize the day. And it doesn't work at all. And so he winds up down in the desert doing, guess what? herding sheep for 40 years before that call comes in the burning bush. And so I think about that example. And then I also think about David because Saul was made king because he was a head tall

and everybody else. He looked apart. The people wanted him. And God told Samuel, he said, he's not the man. But you know what? If you want him, you got it. And he was the most counterculture, untrusting, weak person you can imagine. You just go back and read about Saul. And then guess who God picks? He picks this young guy outtending sheep, the rut of the family. And Samuel even got fooled because in 1st Samuel 16, you know, when the sons come out, he says, ooh, this Eli – the oldest one, Elihu, he's there. Got to be the guy. Look how big and strong he is.

And guys like, nope, you're still looking at the wrong thing. And it winds up being David. So I just – when I look at this imagery, part of it, I – I think it's like you say, Jay, it's just the relationship with the sheep. And then part of it is a dependence on God. In other words, the power is then not my ability to be king, but the idea that I have a dependence on God, which Jesus has no problem saying I and the father are one, you know?

We talked in the last podcast about how in, like, when Jesus is defining himself as the shepherd, or what we said was is that the reason why we typically don't trust Jesus, is because we don't believe that he's powerful enough to do what he said he's going to do, or we don't think he's good. And so this picture of the good shepherd, I mean, think about, like, if you go back to Psalm 23, that says, the Lord is my shepherd. He should not want.

David, right, exactly. By whom? He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me besides still waters. He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his namesake. So you read that Psalm, and he's talking about Jesus. And Jesus is saying, I'm the, I'm the Lord, I'm the guy, I'm the shepherd from Psalm 23.

That's me. That's right. I'm the one. And I'm good. Don't you think it's interesting that, because they had that show, what was the show they had? What was it called? The House of David? Yeah.

And really, they kind of tell the story. But it all culminates, I guess, when David and they just built this up so much. when he went and got the five stones out of the river and here's Goliath and the crowd had the same response toward David what are you going to do? You think you're going to defeat this giant who's just taunting, which kind of used that to his advantage

because he underestimated his opponent because he didn't realize that if, you know, if God is fighting the battle, the giant's going down. But I think it's interesting. And it's an analogy, Jay's, it's been used for thousands of years since. David and Goli, how many times do you hear it? But what I'm saying is he rose to greatness with one stone that hit the giant. And you say, what's your point?

Well, here's Jesus coming in the seed line of David, the lion of Judah. And then he tells this beautiful illustration about shepherding sheep. I lay down my life and I'm from the father. And then what were the people's response to that? You see this in the back half. Well, I'll read it. They pick up stones and they want to stone him. And so like in verse 31 of chapter 10, again, the Jews picked up stones to stone him.

Wasn't that in this ironic? Where he came in the seed line of David, who picked up a stone at God's command and defeated the enemy. And now here's Jesus, who is the fulfillment of David and a greater king and a greater prophet and person than Moses. Right. Because you brought up Moses, but think about it, he, yeah, God used him to part the sea, part the water.

Well, Jesus walked on the water. Yeah, exactly. I mean, remember when Moses struck the rock? Yeah, yeah. And they said that rock was Christ, well, Jesus would say in John 7 they'll be living water come out from within you

I mean not just like a rock over there on our trail and oh he's you know that's a sign that Christ is with us he'll be in you and living streams will bubble up from within your body through his spirit I mean which is better is what I'm saying so they pick up rocks

gonna stone him and I wanted to read this because it just popped into my head. And Jesus, but Jesus said to him, this is verse 32 of chapter 10, I have shown you many great miracles from the Father, for which of these do you stone me? And they said, we are not stoning you for any of these, replied the Jews, but for blasphemy. And here's the point, because you, a mere man,

claimed to be God. And that was their view of, he was just a mere man. He was from the wrong place. Yep, wrong side. He didn't have the right look, which goes into your illustration about David. He hadn't picked up a stone and defeated some major, you know, oppressive force, which was Rome. In their mind, if you want us to follow you, how about go go for Rome with a few rot, David style, and then we'll follow it. So I just think it's interesting.

No, and I think it also shows you, Jace, the dichotomy that exists with earthly. even one like David, who God loved, who established his covenant through his offspring, that the Messiah would come. David picked up five stones, which a good warrior will do, you know, just in case I miss for the first and I got four more behind it. But with God, it only takes one. And so that's what's amazing about Jesus. And I thought about this verse in Deuteronomy 6, verse 4,

Hero Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Even way back then, at the very beginning before any, anybody was realizing that he was saying there's a oneness in God that will then be seen through Christ that's different. And that's what makes Jesus so different. He knows already that he's the one that's supposed to be the king. And that was, because, you know, David was such a warrior, and he was a warrior for the Lord, but he was such a warrior that when he wanted to build the temple, God said, nope, too much blood on your hands. You, too much bloodshed. He said, it'll have to come through your son, which it did.

So even then, it shows you the weakness of human kings that it becomes a bloodlust and a thirst for power. Even the greatest of our kings cannot be the king. Even the ones after God's on the heart, right? You mentioned, Jason mentioned how Jesus is really overturning the power dynamic here and the power structure. And what I think is interesting about this passage, too, is he does establish both his goodness and his authority. So he, Jesus establishes I'm the good shepherd in verse 11, but then he says,

for this reason in verse 17, the father loves me because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me. That's quite the statement that nobody takes Jesus' life from him, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my father. In this passage, Jesus is establishing both his sovereignty and his power and authority, and he's establishing his goodness. And it made me think of that passage in Ezekiel 34, where Jesus, or I say, where the Lord really chastises shepherds who are not good. They may have authority and power, but they're not actually good, and they treat the weak with oppression, and they take advantage of them.

And this is what it says. It says, the word of the Lord came to me, Son of man prophesy against the shepherds of Israel. Prophesy and say to them, even to the shepherds. Thus says the Lord God, ah, shepherds of Israel, who have been feeding yourselves. Should not shepherds feed the sheep? You eat fat. You clothe yourselves with wool. You slaughter the fat ones, but you do not feed the sheep.

The weak you have not strengthened. The sick you have not healed. The injured you have not bound up. The stray you have not brought back. you, the loss you have not sought, and with force and harshness you have ruled them. This is the authority structure that's being turned over. So they were scattered because there was no shepherd, and they became food for all the wild beasts. My sheep are scattered.

They wandered over all the mountains on every high hill. My sheep are scattered over the face of the earth, and no one, there would no one to search for them or seek for them. Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the Lord. As I live, declares the Lord God, surely because, my sheep have become a prey and my sheep have become food for the wild beasts since there was no shepherd and because my shepherds have not searched for my sheep but the shepherds have fed themselves and have not fed my sheep therefore you shepherds hear the word of the lord thus says the lord god behold i am against the shepherds i will require my sheep at their hand and i will put a stop that they're feeding the sheep

and then he basically in the very next part says i'm going to be the shepherd i'll feed my sheep i'll find my sheep I'm going to be the shepherd. And so Jesus is establishing that he is going to overturn the entire power dynamic, and he has the authority to do it, and he has the good intentions for what's best for us. Yeah, I think a good question to ask yourself is, is my life reflecting Jesus just as a mere man? Yeah. If you look at your life, the way you're, you know, live in your life.

life. Is he just a mere man? Or is he who he said he was? Because I think the most important part of this that I've gotten out of this is that, you know, he starts off saying, I tell you the truth, I tell you the truth. He said, I am the truth. And I had a whole list of verses that go back to John 1 when he's like, the law came through Moses. Grace and truth came through Jesus. And he's, think of the woman at the well. He's like, the true worshippers will worship the Father in Spirit and in truth. He keeps bringing this up.

Because we tend to think truth, oh, I've got to go find out, you know, which doctrine is right or which, you know, rabbit hole put all this. It's just like random words and philosophies. And here's Jesus saying, oh, I am the truth. The truth is a person. It's not just a mere man. He embodies truth. Well, he does the same thing with the resurrection on the I am in the next chapter.

When he starts talking about, oh, Lazarus, you know, he's just asleep. I'm going to wake him up, you know, and then he eventually says, I am the resurrection. Because she starts talking about philosophy. Well, we know that he'll be raised at the last day. So all I'm saying is, he's saying resurrection is a person. Yeah. It's not a, I'm not a mere man. I'm embodying these principles.

And I think it really changes the way you study the Bible. Because at the end of the day, you go back to a person that is embodying this. It kind of helps you with trying to figure out all the times and dates and all the arguments over, well, when the resurrection is going to occur and all the detail. And the same thing with truth. It's like if his lips are moving, truth is just being unveiling. in mighty ways that should really stop you in your tracks. And I wanted to bring up one other thing just to ask you all about this.

I look this up with all scholars because, you know, every once while you read something, you think, well, this is weird. So I want to go see what everybody says about it. Crickets. But I want to ask you all. So I'm putting you on the spot here. I think it's really interesting that the wording in verse 11, he says, because he repeats. repeats himself. He says, I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

But then in verse 15, or 14, he says this again, I am the good shepherd. I know my sheep, and my sheep know me. Just as the father knows me. So, because Zach had just mentioned this, this is why I wanted to bring it up. And I know the father, and I lay down my life for the sheep. Well, now did he say the exact same phrase? If you look at it closely, this is what I looked up. The first time he says it, he says it generally. He says, I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

But the second time he says it in verse 15, he makes this comparison in the vein of, I'm not a mere man, because me and the father are one. You know, just as the father knows me and I know the father. and I lay down my life for the for the sheep so he goes from general to real personal so I thought is he actually saying that in general the father this is a reflection of his love is laying his life down for the sheep through me and then he's like and I'm laying down my life for the sheep because he did it in the vein of me me and the father I'm here I'm getting my authority from that. I don't know if y'all have ever thought about that. But you see the difference in the sentences? The sentence breakdown is,

I'm the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down. What all the scholars said was, because they were intrigued by it like I was, but they didn't know what it meant. And they were like, well, it's just he was making a general statement. And then he was saying, I'm making a personal statement.

But I thought, but he's doing it in the context. of him and the father doing this as one. Yeah. So it seemed like to me he's like, this is the father's plan, and I'm the manifestation of the plan. Yeah, which, you know, it's like the, was it, Mike Tyson said, everybody's got a plan until you get hit in the mouth. Yeah.

And, you know, the plan was there, but when Jesus is actually here on the earth as a man, then that makes the plan even more real than it ever was. I think that's the point. I think I've stumbled on something that maybe the scholars have missed because they're detaching it from the father. But I'm like, when his whole point was saying, I'm from the father, it's always that rule when the Bible repeats itself.

You're like, well, wait a minute, let me read that again. Because I thought, why did he just say that? Here's what I think proves that you're right. When you fast forward into the garden on the eve of when it all is fixing to go down, and you see this wrestling match that the son of man is having as the son of God with God. So I'm saying? Like, it's about to happen the anguish of the moment. There's anguish there.

I mean, you see the wrestle that goes in of any man knowing that they're about to make a huge sacrifice. We would all know that experience, but nothing like he was doing because all of his divine nature was about to be on display in a terrible way, in an abusive, awful way for people to watch. So I think that proves exactly what you're saying. There's the decision to do something, and then there's the decision to make it happen, and those are two different ways. I think that was from the father's perspective

the first time in verse 11, and then it was from his perspective in verse 15. And look, the reason I had this, it wasn't like I had the idea. I read the whole chapter numerous times. And so when he gets to where we haven't covered in verse 20, Because they said in verse 24, the Jews said, how long will you keep us in suspense?

If you're the Christ, tell us plainly. Well, what does he, where does he go with that question? Jesus answered, I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do, look, look what he starts talking about again. In my father's name, speak for me. It's back to this oneness with the father. But you do not believe because you're not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice.

I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one can snatch them out of my hand. My father, who has given them to me, is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of my father's hand. I and the father are one. Back to that, John Romney, pass it, yeah. I think it's the same point of this connection,

which when you get away from this, you get into all sorts of doctrines. Right. That are crazy to me. But I think that was his point, because they thought he was a mere man and he's like, you don't understand. I'm the son of the father. The plan is he wants to lay down his life.

Which he's actually anchoring his coming death. He's anchoring the cross, which is actually really profound as I'm thinking this out here. He's anchoring the cross itself in the very nature of God. And so it moves it from a transaction. because if you think about like a sheep, the sheep analogy only goes so far, right?

Because, I mean, at the end of the day, I mean, I'm going to take care of my sheep, but it's really a transaction. I'm a shepherd because I'm actually going to sell them at some point. I'm not like in a... Well, he made that point when he said, when a wolf comes, the hired hands, they take all running.

But if you own them, if these are reflections and images of you yourself that you made, well, it's a little different story. Because he's elevating it in that second statement when he says, I am the good shepherd. I know my sheep and my sheep know me. Well, what does he mean by that? Well, he explains it.

Just as the father knows me and I know the father. So now he's talking about real intimacy. This is actually unabridged or unadulterated intimacy between the father and the son, which is completely perfect. Like it's an intimacy between two persons that's so pure that they're actually one person, or one being, sorry. And so that's what he said, and I lay down my life for the sheep. He's anchoring that, that laying down the life in the very nature of who God is.

And it makes me think of that second Peter passage where it says that we've been invited to partake in the divine nature. This is a beautiful picture because he's actually elevating what it means to be a sheep. To be a sheep with Christ is to have the intimacy that Christ has with the father we have with Christ. And you really see that play out through the entire book of John, particularly when John 17, it kind of flows. all into that idea of unity. Exactly. I was going to the same place. And I just wanted to bring up,

the reason I'm bringing this up is because people go here to try to make arguments about, they're reading this part about the father who has given them to me is greater and no one can snatch them out of my father's hand. And they try to make doctrines on, well, this means once saved,

always save these little pithy statements. Yeah, and they get that because, you know, from verse 9 when it says, I am the gate, whoever enters through me will be saved. When we see the verse, I mean the word saved, we immediately think, well, there's a transaction that happened. But there's a little letter by that word saved, and you look down and it says, or kept safe.

Yeah. And you've got to look at the big picture here. It's not a one-time kind of thing. That word, when you look at that word save used here, and look at how many, times that's used and I encourage you to do that go look up that word in the Greek and look every every saved in verse 9 10 9 and look everywhere it's used because you know what you'll find fascinating that same word is used by the disciples in chapter 11 that same word is used when when

Jesus said in verse 11 after he had said this he went on to tell them our friend lazarus has falling asleep but I'm going there to wake him up his disciples replied Lord if he sleeps he will get better well you say that phrase he will get better same same word that's used in john 10 and what I found fascinating is that word is used all over the place in the gospels where it says do you want to get well remember when he asked uh I forgot which story that was but when he I think that was the guy that had been hanging out in the pool and he said do you want to get well well. Same word.

Yeah. Get well, restored, made whole. Yeah. Saved. It's used in a lot of different ways, kept safe.

And my whole point of bringing this up is this picture of the shepherd and the sheep and Jesus being the shepherd, I know my sheep, he's like, there's an enemy.

There are powers. To Zach's point, he is saying that my power is going to be shown in a different way. But there are other powers who are going to attack you. They're going to try to lure you. And we know one, at least, is the evil one.

Which he mentions here in verse 10. Yeah. And that's the context of John 10. So when he says, no one's going to be able to snatch you, because there's other powers who are out to do you harm. Yeah. And they blind you, they lie to you. They'll kill you. They steal. They'll take you. They'll use you for something. And then you look up and they're gone and you're suffering the consequences. And I'm only saying I'm not trying to make some big philosophical argument. I'm just trying to say, this is the context of what he's saying. And you see the same thing in the book of Revelation, but go ahead while I'm turning there. No, when you think about that, the use the phrase, once saved, always saved,

or like a piffy statement like that. I grew up, man, having those discussions as kids and, you know, you believe it once saved, always saved. And I'm like, man, it seems like that, even that phrase, I mean, it, just reduces the entire gospel to something so trivial to me. Because if I'm asking that question, do I believe, once saved, always save? What I'm saying is, do you believe that I do this thing one time? And okay, I'm good now. I'm good. I'm secure. And it kind of misses the whole point of what Jesus is saying here in verse 9. He says, I am the door on the gate. If anyone enters by me,

he will be saved and will go, this is the part they leave off, and will go in and out to find pastor to find those green pastures, he makes me lie down and pastors green. Psalm 23. And so the picture here really is, I'm thinking of like Jacob's ladder in Genesis 28 where heaven and earth meet. That's the access point, right? Where heaven and earth meet. And what Jesus is saying here is like, I'm the entry point. I'm the access gate. I'm, because the presence of God is behind this curtain here, what you're being invited into is not simply a thing that just says you're secure. what you're being invited into is something that's relational. And if I apply the same logic to my marriage and everything that I did was just to make sure that

me and Jill, okay, we're secure, we're secure. Like, that's not really what a marriage is about is making each other feel like no one's ever going to leave. Or, you know, it's the point of a marriage is to find connection and intimacy. Well, the word is, Zach, you didn't marry Jill as a transaction. you married it as a transformational life. And that's why you've grown together as a couple and will continue to until the moment that you breathe no more.

And it's the exact same thing with Christianity. Is Jesus and his sacrifice transactional for you or is it transformational for you? That's the difference. Because that's where he's going to John, right? We want to get there today, but I mean, he's actually moving the conversation into the oneness that he has with the father.

So he's building the case here for what a real intimacy is. and intimacy beyond the transformation beyond just a transaction. Yeah. What I wanted to say is I told how I did this. I studied the whole book of Revelation in the last week. And I gave a little preview of that on one of the podcasts where I kind of summed up the first seven chapters because there's a lot in here about the lamb and the lion

and becoming a lamb and yet being the shepherd. And so I have this fresh on my mind, and I'm not going to go, because we're going to save the book of Revelation for our last hurrah when we go through it. But the reason I was drawn to it is because the same idea, it's all about this,

you know, what I believe, Revelation being, the church being persecuted at the hands of Rome, and he writes to these seven churches, and they're going to attack, this power, just think, it's a power struggle.

Right. You have the evil one, in cahoots with some earthly power dishing it out toward people who have put their trust in Jesus, which is the greatest power. And I just wanted to read this one section in chapter 14, because I think it's very powerful. And he looked, and it says there before me was the lamb.

We're back to this lamb exalted at the right hand of God. And with him, 144,000 who had his name, and his father's name written on their foreheads. And so immediately people get distracted. But I'm just going to tell you this now, and we'll revisit this later. But it's imagery representing the whole people of God. And what I find fascinating is in Revelation,

every time the followers of Jesus are depicted, they're always viewed as heavenly. It's like heavenly people. And every time you see the inhabitants on the, the earth or dwellers of the earth. It's always the people who are not in Jesus, which I find very interesting. It's like that's how the imagery depicted, which comes back to this, he won't allow anyone that the father's given him to be snatched out of his hand. But then he goes on to say, so I know I made that without giving you all the details on why that represents the entire

group of people. But one day when we go through Revelation, I'll show you. Then he says, and I heard a sound from heaven like a roar of brushing waters and like a loud peel of thunder. The sound I heard was like the harp is playing their hearts. And they sang a new song before the throne

and before the four living creatures, which is representative of the angelic world, and the elders, there's the humans. No one could learn the song except the 144,000, who had been redeemed from the earth, which kind of proves my point.

This is the whole totality. It's like 12 times 12 times 1,000. These are those who did not devolve themselves with women. And he's not being literal about anything. He's just saying they're trusting the voice

of the shepherd. But they kept themselves pure. They follow the lamb wherever he goes. That's the sentence I was trying to get to. And so, that is the picture of what we have in John 10. No matter what the enemy is, whether it's Rome, whether it's the Jewish authority of Judaism

who are wanting to stone Jesus or the temple that had turned corrupt that Jesus would pronounce judgment on, in which I believe that he's pronouncing judgment on Rome, these different powers through the work of the evil one in his entourage that come up on Christians. Our battle cry is he's not just a mere man. We're following him wherever he goes. And that's why I think John's vision depicts those as heavenly creatures and heavenly beings because he's at the right hand of God. He's won.

We're victorious. The church is victorious. And most people have made bad about the future, but we believe it's about the now. All right, I got a good follow up verse for that. But I'm going to save it for the next podcast. So we'll see you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts.

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