Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1123 | SWAT Officers Interrupt the ‘Unashamed’ Podcast & the Mystery of the Divine Council

Episode Date: July 9, 2025

A surprise visit from SWAT officers interrupts the podcast—but what starts as chaos quickly turns into a powerful reflection on legacy, parenting presence, and the kind of moments that shape a life. The guys challenge the tendency to paint Jesus as a passive victim, digging into John 10 and Psalm 82 to highlight his divine authority and bold claim to be one with the Father. Zach and Al dive into the mystery of the other celestial beings who make up the “divine council" mentioned in the Bible. In this episode: Revelation 14, verse 4; John 10; John 15, verse 22; Psalm 82; Psalm 89; Ephesians 3, verse 10; 1 Kings 22 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed, as I told you in the last podcast, which for us has been 10 minutes ago. Yeah. People don't know. We just did a podcast. We're actually doing the next one. But so we got back from New Orleans.

And Jay says, I've noticed, like, so we had a trip there plan for Lisa to go to the doctor. But around that, there's always a grandkid opportunity. now because mine are a little bit older than yours, so they want to go with us in the summertime they're out of school. Yeah. So they want to come and go as much as possible. So we had to work the doctor visit into a trip to New Orleans visit. So we had to do the aquarium, the zoo, the New Orleans stuff. There's a place. Oh, so you took the grandkids. Yeah, grandkids were with us. And Alex went along to take care of them when we had to go to the doctor. But so we go to this place called Dave and Busters

and it's just a giant I tell you what it is I discovered it when I was sitting there it is a casino for kids oh wow I'm not sure that's a good thing well I'm just saying it's what it is because you you know how you walk into Vegas into one of the big casino we've been out there for shot shows

and it's the lights and the noise and people get excited what is that but it's all for kids it's like an arcade so you know they got all the so now you have to let their parents spend the rest of their life getting that out of their system. Oh, you never do. But the one thing I say about these people that they get that most places like this don't is they've got a restaurant right in the middle of it

where you can see everything that's going on. So we sat there and ate a nice meal in New Orleans while the kids are doing all the machines and devices. See, I have a different approach. I have grandkids, but we have little man that I talk about every once a while. And I'm not sure what we are title-wise. I guess we're like the godparents. because that's, you know, I'm trying to infuse. And really, I don't exactly know where that term comes from exactly. I know it's somehow tied in with Catholicism, but you guys are literally what that meant.

I mean, that is a God thing that turned into Godparents. Came out of a difficult situation, and we're helping his mom and all. But, you know, I'm pretty much, you know, the only man in his life. And we get him pretty much every weekend or just a couple days during the week because our schedule was crazy. I was in here whining about how busy I've been this week. But we had a little man. And so I stopped my life every week, you know, for this little guy. And so I'm like, you know, I want to teach this boy to fish.

But so we get up before he goes to school because we had him during the week this week. And he was so excited, which really caused, you know, a problem with Missy and I, because I think I shared before, she did, came up with this alarm clock because kids that when they're three years old, and he's whatever he is, three and a half, you know, they don't want to, they don't want to sleep and then they get up and they don't want to stay in their bed. Well, what if it's three o'clock in the morning, you know? So you have to go through this training of, how to manage that.

And she came up with this alarm clock, which was awesome. It's like when it turns green, it's red. It doesn't make a sound. It just, when it turns green, you can get up. And, well, that worked for, you know, a month or two. She felt like she's a genius. You just say, so if he gets up, you just put him back in the bed, said, nope, the light's not green.

That's it. Well, that worked, you know, at three. Now he's three and a half. It's no longer working. Now it works because he was tired when we got him. We had picked him up from his little school, but he's so excited because he gets to do all this fun stuff. And we're just stopping our life, and it's like... Which is exactly what my grandkids love being with us.

Every minute is spent doing something, you know, fun or adventurous and all this. And he's a wonderful little boy. It's just as sweet, you know, I mean, he's just a really good kid. I'm really, really proud of him. And so even when Missy picked him up from school, she said, how was your day? And he said, I made a lot of good choices. He's three years old. That's impressive.

Dude, you need to go speak at some of the things that I've been speaking. I think we could get him maybe on a preschool speaking to her. Is that work on that? I mean, what a thing to say, three years. I made a lot of good choices today. That's awesome. So I'm like, man, so the problem is, Missy and I, I'm not going to call it an argument,

but we got into a little bit of a tiff because at 5.30 in the morning, he's supposed to get up at 6.45. That's when the lights turning green. At 5.30, he comes walking into our room, and he's like, J. Rock, let's go. Well, you know, I jumped up because he was so excited, and he was just happy.

And I thought, because Missy, she doesn't, you know, She doesn't do her. We need a Lazarus experience to get her up. She's in that down a little. I don't even think she knew this happened. And so when I walked out, I was like, buddy, has your light turned green? And he's like, no, but I was just so excited. I wanted to make some good choices.

Yeah, well, you figure, me some bacon, you know. And I'm like, I had to make a decision. I'm like, do I try to get into this light turning green? This kid is excited about being here. I'm probably not going to see him for a few days. He was so excited. I just thought, let's make some make him. We, you know, play with the little dogs, and we ate breakfast, you know,

and he's like, on right on the golf cart. We do that. I took him. He jumped on the trampoline, you know. Usually I jumped with him, but, you know, it was just getting daylight, and I hadn't done any stretching. But so we do all this, and it's like he usually leaves. around 7.30.

So at 7.15, I'm like, well, I need to get him back, you know. And because I was assuming he missed he was up by then. So as soon as we pulled back in, he's like, well, Jayrock, we didn't go fishing. And I thought, now this boy's brought up, he wants to go fishing.

I was like, you know what? I looked at 715. I'm like, we got time. So I grabbed the rod and reel. And look, most of the time, we only fish for five minutes, because that's basically his attention span, and if we don't catch any, you know, he's ready to go.

So I was like, you never know. We might catch a fish. So I take him, go to Willie's Pond. You know, I figured he's not going to get mad because I'm taking a little boy fishing here, you know. So we get up on a little bridge, you know, I throw out first cast. And what we do, his fishing experiences, because I'm on this bridge,

is I'll catch the fish. and then he'll help me take him off the hook and he'll throw him back, you know. If we catch a crappie, he knows. That's going into an ice chest. But so that's kind of, but he feels like I'm a part of this. I mean, he puts gloves on, you know,

because I'm actually allergic to any kind of scale fish, which is really weird. You know, I can eat them and I do eat them. But if I touch the outside of a scaled fish with my skin, I immediately start sweating, my nose starts running, starts sneezing. It takes me about two days to get over.

So it's perfect because he puts his gloves on. And look, that boy, he'll grab them, you know, and he'll kind of show it to the, if I'm filming it, they'll show it, then he'll throw him back. And he's like, you know, high five, we did it. Yeah. That's kind of our mode. First cast, I catch a little bass.

So I'm like, perfect. I didn't have much time, you know. And so I have the little fish. I took a picture. He's holding it. You know, I was like, great, we got the experience. And he's like, I think we have time to try to catch another way. This kid is working.

This kid don't want to go to school. I feel like he's playing a delay. Yeah. So I know this is a long story, but it's worth it. I throw out there again. I mean, I'm using two-pound test line with a jig that's almost microscopic. Because those fish, you know, they're hard to catch, especially in the summertime. And all of a sudden, I just, he was distracting.

to me and my drag started pulling. I look out, I kind of set the hook lightly because I thought this seems like a little bigger fish. Set the hook and then I feel the power. So I immediately opened my bell

because I thought if I, this is something big. Yeah, that's the line. That fish took all my line. It went to the middle of the pond. As much line as I had on, it just all gone.

And at that point, I said, well, I've got to try to turn him, but I had a lot of slack in my lines. There's no way I'm going to land whatever this is. 25 minutes later. Now I'm late. I'm sure Missy has called 911. I was trying to see where all the problems this week are coming in with Missy. This is all coming together, Zach.

It's all making sense now. So now the beast surfaces. because I'm now, it took that long because I'm not horsing this fish whatsoever. You're going to break your rig. And he is riveted, which it's hard to keep a three-year-old riveted. Because he's like, what is it, Jayrod? What do you have? What is it?

I was like, I don't know. And he finally came forth, and it was as big a bass as you've ever seen. Because he's got some horses in there. Guessing eight pounder. And I have it on two pounds. test line. This is the thing people go all over the country for and try to catch, and I have it with a little man

here. The problem is I'm on a bridge. How are you going to get this fish? There's no lifting. As soon as I tried to lift it, the line's breaking. So I'm looking. Well, there's some rock formations on both ends of the bridge.

And I'm like, I think, I said, I just got to scale these rocks with the fish on. I got to get to his lip. is the only way I'm going to, and I basically, you know, the fish is exhausted. And so as I'm taking a step, I mean, he's like, Jay Rock, he calls me Jay Rock, what are you doing? Don't fall in the water. This is dangerous, Jay. This is dangerous. Don't fall in. You're making bad choices. You're making bad choices.

What am I going to do if you fall in, it's the play-by-play, you know, that was making me uncomfortable. I was like, it's okay, it's okay. I was like, look, if I fall in head first. Don't do what I'm doing, whatever you do. Yeah, I was like, if I hit my head on a rock, can you make it back to Jay Rock and Lou? So that was kind of created more drama until finally I ease him up there. And look, in between that, he went literally, Jay Rock, there's a snake, which I jumped because I thought he would never say that if it wasn't true. And literally down in the rocks, a snake had peeled its skin off.

It was a snake skin. It was four foot long, which then caused me a little consternation here. Because something shed that. Yeah, I'm in a vulnerable position here, but I thought, you know what? I don't think it's poisonous. I was like, it's not poisonous. So I lip the fish, come up. He just goes crazy.

This thing. and I actually took a picture with it with him and the way I had the camera because the fish is in between me and him and the camera. Well, it made the fish look bigger but it was a huge, I mean, eight pound bass pretty big and I'm like this

it looked the exact size as a toddler in this camera. Of course he's grinning from ear to ear. So I make it back Of course, Bissy is standing in the driveway, you know, not literally, but just as soon as I came in, she's like, where? I was like, we just got the world's largest bass, you know. And believe it or not, she was, she understood, I was like, look, because I wanted to show her to the picture, she was like, oh, my goodness. I said, it took me 30 minutes to land the thing. I mean, he will never forget this the rest of his life.

I was telling her this, well, he's listening. And he's like, yeah, can you? Can you show that picture to my friends? I was like, buddy, I can't. I don't have time to come up there and show your friends. He's like, no, there's. And he started describing something that Missy's like, he's crazy. You know what?

He was right. They have a little group message that you can submit pictures to it. And I was like, in our world technology, this three-year-old knew that there was some place where his friends could see this fish. Exactly. And I was like, this is when you realize how a three-year-old. old is smarter than you are. So it made his day look like the hero, and I was just saying I have a different approach

to passing down, you know, memories. Yeah. Because to me, he became the coolest kid in his close. But you nailed it. It's something about the older we get, the more that the childlike wonders motivate us. Yeah. It's like when our kids were little and we were younger, we had so much going on. It's not that I wasn't aware of their wonders, but with my grandkids now, like, that motivates me more

than anything else. Just like us being New Orleans, there's nothing I wanted to do more than leave New Orleans. I wanted to get out of there, get home. But then when they're like, you know, Pat, we want to go to the zoo. And I'm like, oh, man, walk around in New Orleans and the afternoon to go to a zoo. It's the last thing I wanted to do. But then Pearl, my youngest was like, I'm so excited about getting to see the animals. I'm like, let's go.

And then she made a video to your point and said, have you checked the compound text this morning? That's what we call it when we text each other because she knew. And I said, no, and I wouldn't watch the video. It's her telling about what she's expecting of the zoo. Well, that was it. That was like, zoo bound we are. Well, as kids, though, you had these monumental experiences.

You know what you asked me during all that process? He was like, well, how come we never called him before? Which was, you know, it's a kid-like question. Yeah. I said, we've gone 50 times. Yeah. This hasn't happened. Right.

And I was like, that's why it's called fishing. You never know. And you know what I thought in that moment? I thought when he gets a little older, because I had the picture to prove and to bring back this experience and the fact that he's wanting to share this to the world, I thought I'm going to use this one day as a basis to say, look, you remember how cool that was?

Well, we're fishers of men in Jesus. It was a foundational experience. which shows you that the greatest, you know, time that you can spend with your kids is the time spending with your kids. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. It's that simple, isn't it?

That is it. If you keep going out there and taking them and try to build things into their life, guess what? You'll have something that they'll never forget. Yeah. And the most important part is we're together. He, you know, he had somebody a father figure in his life. And, you know, the last time I think I brought him. We ate, you know, donuts together.

It was, I was the father figure with the donuts with dad day. And that's why even the moments you take away, Zach, you're fixing to go on vacation with your crew coming up soon down on the Gulf Coast. That's why you do that, right? I mean, that's why you take those moments where you can have those memories because they do come back. Yeah. I might send them over to your house so you can be their father figure for a few minutes. Exactly.

I'll make sure that I'm not there. The only problem of that story is, is now the bar is really high. That's been saying. The next time you don't catch anything, it's going to be. But that's how you get hooked. It's like that one, you had that memory and always trying to get back. Oh, he'll be there one day. Yeah, the first fish I actually remember catching, I was three.

And I landed an eight-pound bass, you know. And saw us next again. Well, let's get back to John. Jason, the last podcast, you finished by reading Revelation 14, 4, which I love now. follow the lamb wherever he leads and i apologize because i wanted to get there i've been studying revelation a lot and uh i just wanted to make the practical application when jesus said you know they hear my voice i know my sheep and the whole thrust of that which revelation revisits that because persecution not only was going to come on jesus not only was it going to come on the

followers but it has continued to happen yeah since jesus was he was going to come on the followers but it has continued to happen since Jesus was here. And I told you my thoughts on Revelation, it was built and written with this Roman oppression that was going to persecute the saints in horrific ways. And I was going to make the practical point

that you don't, you know, that sounds like such a beautiful statement with the good shepherd I told you in the Greek. When you look at that word, it's more than good. It's beautiful. It's, you know, he's it's beyond what we can really grasp how great it is to be in close connection with the

Lord and the creator of the universe which I think was his point but I said all that to say that's why it's difficult that that's why Jesus was having so so so much difficulty is because when you surrender to Jesus and you have this I'm going to follow him wherever he goes well some of that's going to be very difficult where did Jesus go well not far after John 10 he's going to wind up on a cross and look he's going to be mistreated he's going to be betrayed and that happens in our life and that's why it's so difficult for us to not only surrender but to live the life that God has called us to do because some of these things are going to be really difficult when you're following wherever Jesus goes I like it in fact one of my favorite verses I quote often

is Revelation 1211, which says, we overcome the evil one by the blood of the lamb, word of our testimony. The fact, we don't love life so much we would shrink back even from death. But now I'm going to add Revelation 144 to that. What does that look like by following the lamb wherever he leads?

That's the transformation. And I went through all that just to show you that the backdrop for why John 10 is here is he's clearly defining the opponents, which Revelation does also. Yeah. I mean, it's basically the beast, which I believe is wrong,

in cahoots with the evil one, against the Lord and his people. That's what the whole thing is about. And that's what this whole picture in John 10 is about. I mean, don't think, oh, there's some fluffy sheep on the side of a hill, and there's a shepherd, isn't this cool? Well, show the times when there's a wolf trying to, you know,

get to the sheep, and what happens when he does. Oh, it turns into a horror show. You know, sheep, running, you know, the shepherd is there. I mean, it's a battle that's going on. Which is why Zach mentioned Psalm 23 in the last podcast. You get that picture, your rod and your staff, they comfort me. The comfort comes from not only the ability to keep you in line and pull you back from

danger, but also to beat off whatever it is, it's attacking you. Exactly. I mean, that was the idea by the rod, you know. I want to read you a verse before we go back, and then I want to read that back half of John Tim, as we kind of bring that John Tend to. close because there's a couple of really cool things in there we want to talk about psalm 82 being one of them but this was a verse when y'all were talking the last podcast it just popped right into my brain hebrews is probably the best explanation of everything in the old testament in one package and i love

at the end of hebrews 13 when whoever wrote this because we're not sure some say paul some say others when he says i urge you to bear with my words of exhortation for i have written you all only a short letter, you know, probably the most comprehensive understanding of the whole Old Testament, the book of Hebrews. But listen how he closes it before he makes that statement. He says, in relation to us thinking about John 20, I mean John 10, may the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead, our Lord Jesus, and then catch this phrase, the great shepherd of the sheep, equip you with everything good for doing his will,

and may he work in us what is pleasing to him through Jesus Christ, to him be glory forever and ever, amen. That was his way to close out that book, which basically took the whole entirety of the Old Testament, said, if you look at the Old Testament, all of it points to this one man. Excellent point. Jesus comes.

I actually had that somewhere in my notes, but I'm glad you remembered to read it. All right, so back to John 10. I want to read this last half of the chapter. It's going to lead us into 11. And as I do, at the very beginning of it, he says, then came the feast of dedication, which we know is Hanukkah, which would have been in the winter because he says it was winter.

So we know that was the one that's now celebrated in December. And that's verse 22. Verse 22. And I want to mention one thing there. It was interesting. You brought this up because somebody that I was reading, brought up the happening. It was in

167, so it would have been obviously about 175 years before what we're reading here. But it was when the Maccabees Judas Macb... Yeah, the revolt that was there. Because at this point, the Greeks were in control. This is pre-Roman just before.

And, you know, they had defiled the temple. And they were doing all these false idol worship and sacrifices in the temple of the Lord. And so there was this great revolt. And this guy, Judas Maccabees, is the one who led the revolt. And basically they took back the temple. And so this dedication was to that event, which was interesting.

So whoever I was reading that brought this up said, you know, in the people's minds, that would have been recent news. That was a big deal. The reason we're all coming to Jerusalem to celebrate. because this Judas came in, he took over. And his dynasty only lasted 100 years, because then the Romans took over, and that was the end of him.

Which is why we went through Daniel 2 and 7, talking about the four kingdoms, which would be Babylon, Medes and Persians, Greek, then the Romans. And then the Romans. But it was interesting because here Jesus is about to talk about being a shepherd king in the context of this great revolution that brought the temple back. So again, in the Jewish mindset, they wanted that kind of key.

Right. They wanted the guy to come in, overturn, and then put us in charge. And remember that in John 2, he's already said, remember after he went into the temple and cleared it out? Yeah. And he's like, I am the temple. And they're like, well, you're talking about it? It's taking us 46 years to build the temple.

Exactly, which is huge. He's like, no, you destroy me and I'll come back in three days, you know, and they thought he was talking about the temple and he was talking about his body. So we just had a rare literal break-in to our programming because we got word as I was just finishing up with that story that there were 25 SWAT guys here. When Maddie first said that, I thought, oh, no. We're under attack. We're under attack.

We're under attack. We're under attack. Oh, yeah. Martin just stepped in and said there's 25 SWAT guys here. I'm like, wait, what? I think this is the first time. Yeah, we've ever stopped mid-podcast. But I think that was a reason to.

So it wasn't an emergency, folks. It was they just wanted to meet us and take a picture. So we went and met these guys. They were from Birmingham, Alabama, but they were doing training in Dallas. And so they were on their way back through. They stopped by Duck Commander. Just to say, hey. We're not normally here on a Friday, which is where we are today.

But we were. So we stopped, took a picture with them. First of all, I looked at this group and I was like, I wouldn't want to mess around with these men. Were they in full uniform? Oh, yeah. I mean, look, you would have thought, and they somehow... I never felt more secure as that than I did five minutes ago. Yeah, they were somehow crowded in the duck call room,

and we had to exit so we could take a picture because there wasn't enough room. But, you know, July 4th around the corner, this will probably be airing somewhere in that time frame. But the conversation just made you kind of proud to be in America. Well, and then our chief of police, Jason Pleasant, was with him. He brought him over here, which was great to see him. He's a friend of us, and obviously takes care of us. But, look, law enforcement, you guys are amazing, and Jay's told them rightly that, you know, we appreciate what you do every single day.

So, uh, I went into detail. I was like, you know, you're guys that rushed to the fire and, you know, the firestorm and bullets. And you just think it takes a certain person to be able to do that. Same to serve in the military. It's just a mindset. And my little speech that I. I wasn't prepared for, but I launched into, I was basically, you know, given this picture of

that they don't, they just go where they're told because of love of God, country, people, and people getting along. You're like, well, sure, they get paid for it, but they're not asking any kind of agenda-like questions. They just put their lives on the line for us. And I think it's one freedom that we take for granted, that when you call the police, they show up. You know, there's some countries you go, and there's just nobody to call. And so we're real appreciative of them. Good, good guys.

A lot of Alabama and Auburn fans in there, Zay. Yeah, we started to big. I'm just like everybody safe. Yeah, we're all good. It didn't sound good at first, but they could. So we're back now. You didn't even know we left, but we're back. We're back at John 1022.

So let me finish this text. So we set that up kind of against the backdrop of Hanukkah. year, which is what's happening. It was winter, verse 23, and Jesus was in the temple area walking in Solomon's colonnade, so he's in the temple. The Jews gathered around him saying, how long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ or the Messiah, tell us plainly, which is interesting, because how many times did he have to say it? Jesus answered, and Jace read this last time, I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my father's name speak for me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. So it's back to that

idea about they're in the wrong pen, right? My sheep listen to my voice. I know them and they follow me. I give them eternal life and they shall never perish. No one can snatch them out of my hand. My father, who has given them to me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of my father's hand. I and the father are one, which we talked about that quite a bit on the last podcast. again the Jews picked up stones to stone him jays there's those stones again but jesus said to them i have shown you many great miracles from the father for which of these do you stone me now that's a and that's a scathing rebuke right you're gonna you're gonna kill me now because i've done all these amazing things we're not stoning you for any of those replied the jews but for blasphemy

because you a mere man claimed to be god and really the that is the heart of the matter. That's the crux. And it's still there today. If he's not the son of God, then you don't want to have anything good. Exactly. Which, by the way, is another question Jesus asked in verse 32. I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me? And it's a hard question to ask yourself and how it applies, but I think it's a good one. It's a sobering question. I'll add that to our list of questions. Because we get to the end of this.

I got the thing about, Jay's, that would be a fantastic sermon series. The questions Jesus asked. Oh, I agree. I mean, are you a living stone or are you actually on the other side? Because there's only two sides to this. Are you picking up rocks to stone Jesus? Or are you acting like a living stone in Jesus? So Jesus answered them when they came back with his charge of blasphemy.

Is it not written in your law? I like it. It's your law now. I have said you are gods, little G. And by the way, that's a quote from Psalm 82, which we're going to talk about in just a minute. I have said you are gods. If he called them gods, little G, to whom the word of God came,

and the scripture cannot be broken, what about the one whom the father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? So I wonder what he's talking about. Yeah, which is another question. It is. What about the one that the father sent? Right.

Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said I'm God's son? Do you not believe me unless I do what my father does? But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles that you may know and understand that the father is in me and I am the father. So Jesus keeps coming back to the same thing. how could I be doing this if I wasn't who I said I was? And he keeps going back to the father in his relationship to him. Again, they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp. I don't even know what that means, but I'm sure that was something to behold.

Then Jesus went back across the Jordan to the place where John had been baptizing the early day, so we know this is more wilderness now. Here he stayed and many people came to him. They said, though John never performed a miraculous sign, that John said about this man was true. And in that place, many believed in Jesus. So he kind of removes back out of this super public safety. I think it's, I mean, just when you read that and put it all together, I think it's just

powerful that he goes to where it all started in this ministry back to John the Baptist and how the connection and all this was true. And he prophesied, he's there not by accident of what you called Hanukkah, the Feast of Dedication. he's walking through the temple. And he knows he's fulfilling that. And they're asking him questions about, are you the Christ? I mean, it's all coming together just from a literary standpoint on how John wrote this, which is why the Bible is the greatest selling book of all times.

Because when you really look at how all of this is coming together mid-story, I mean, you just can't make this up. It makes you think, oh, this is this is the, the spirit of God writing this down for us. And the irony is that he's in this setting where they're ready to kill him. And he came here to die, but not the way that they were ready to kill it. I mean, that's the irony of the whole thing. Zach, you read it last time.

I was like, oh, no, I'm going to give my life. You're not going to take it. Which I think is a very profound, hard to understand thing, because he keeps saying the father, I only do what the father says. I only do what the father says. I only do what the father says. And then he's like, but don't misunderstand this. I give my life freely, which is why I brought up the two questions.

I mean, which is why I brought up the two statements about I'm the good shepherd. He seemed to say, although we're one, the shepherd will lay down his life for the sheep, I'm also the image of God in human form. and I will give my life for the sheep. And it's by my own free will and choice. That's right. I always said that we can measure the love of God by the height of how we see his transcendence or sovereignty. And so when you think about this whole thing that's happening here,

they're like the whole thing is about the incarnation of Christ. and they're having a hard time understanding how a man can also be God. They just can't grasp that. But I think that sets it up when he does say that, like we're not, Christ is not a victim.

Like I think we propose it that way and see it that way a lot, but I mean, that song we sang as kids, he could have called 10,000 angels. Yeah. I mean, he could have called 10,000 angels. He could have wiped us off the face of the planet.

He could, I mean, he could do, he could do whatever he wants. He is in full of, authority. And so when we think about how high up he is, however high you can see God, then the higher you see him than the further the distance that we understand that he traveled, so to speak, to condescend and to be put in a human body ultimately crucified on a cross, by his own submission, by his own will, by his own authority. But that is the depth of his love. The depth of God's love is measured by the height of his glory. And his glory is infinitely high,

which means that the distance that he came is an infinite distance was that. So the depth of his love is infinite. It's an infinite chasm that was overcome by Jesus, and it's just so profound to see it here playing out. And they only have themselves to blame. I want to read you this first before you read Psalm 82, because I want to get into that God and little G. God. Let's know what Jesus is going to say later, which we'll get to,

but I just want to read it in our context here because he's going to bring this back up. This is in John 1522. if I had not come and spoken to them, and he's talking about the very people where he's talking about right now, back in chapter 10, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin. He who hates me hates my father as well. If I had not done among them what no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. But now they have seen these miracles, and yet they have hated both me and my father. But this is to fulfill what is written in their law, they hated me without reason. Yeah. And so I love the idea. What he says is it always has pointed to me being here. And look, by the same excuse of the same token, we don't have any excuse now because

he came and did what he said he was going to do. Yeah. I'm so glad Zach said that and brought us into that because it makes difficult passages, make more sense, even though it's very complex to wrap your head around. Like Ephesians 1, you know, when he's, when Paul's right. this letter and he's like praise be to the god and father of our lord jesus so he's using the same yeah same words as as jesus is using about the father here and he's like he is blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in christ and then it says for he chose he chose us in him

well in christ which we're now reading the what christ is representing here right with his relationship with the father and him, one, coming here to do what the father wants, but also saying, I give my life on my own. Nobody's taking it from me. But it says he chose us in him for the creation of the world to be holy and blame us. And then it says what Zach, the point he brought up, in love, he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ. And it's really hard to wrap your head around how deep that love is.

is while having this much sovereignty and authority. Yeah. And being able to do this. That's why that little phrase in Christ is really the key that unlocks all that. Right. Which is what we're doing here. We're getting to know him better. Right.

And it also, that idea of Shepard King. All right, let me read Psalm 82 because Jesus quotes it. And I think you should set up why he's quoted. So they're saying, right on the hills of this. I mean, because I think what will help you, because this is fixed to get deep. But you're like, why would he bring up Psalm 82?

But they were viewing him as a mere man saying, and what he's portraying is that he's the son of God. Because they just asked this question, if you're the Christ, tell us plainly. And then it's like, we're going to stone you for blasphemy, me because you are a mere man. So I think once you've set the foundation on why he's bringing up Psalm 82, because Psalm 82 is probably the least preached Psalm in all of the Psalms,

because we're fixing to read it and you'll see why. Because you're like, wait, what? This is a wait, what moment in the Bible. You're fixed to read this and a lot of people listen to this have probably never heard Psalm 82. And Jesus quoted it. Because nobody knows in our religious world what exactly is Psalm 82 about. And we're not going to come across as experts, but we'll give you the options.

All right, here we go. Psalm 82. And this is not David, this is ASAP that wrote this. God presides in the great assembly. He gives judgment among the gods, little G. but it's the same word. I will have you, I will note that when you say, oh, it's a little G, so it must be a different Greek word. Now, the people who translated it put it into little Gs because we know that there's only one God.

That's all over the place in the Bible. That's why people don't talk about this. But Jesus quoted, so we're going to wait in here. He gives judgment among the gods. How long will you defend the unjust and show partiality to, the wicked. Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless. Maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed. Rescue the weak and needy. Deliver them from the hand of the wicked. They know nothing. They understand nothing. They walk about in darkness. All the foundations of the earth are shaken.

I said, you are gods. You are all sons of the most high. But you will die like mere men. you will fall like every other ruler. Rise up, O God. Judge the earth and all the nations are your inheritance. So why would he bring this up? Because it gives you a picture of evidently, I mean, what the Psalm is about is God bringing justice. Right.

What we all immediately go to is is what a lot of people call in the religious scholarly world, this divine counsel. And so it seems to imply that not only is there a human family, but there's a celestial family called Sons of God, divine counsel. Are there any other phrases? You know more of the phrases than I do.

It's the idea. Yeah, it's like the little lower- case G. gods, it would be Elohims. Well, I get it, but I was just saying that divine counsel is, I think, the phrase of the day. So it's like,

and I'm going to introduce this. So there's some other obscure passages. When I said Psalm 82 is probably the least read. Well, Psalm 89 kind of validates what we just read. And I'll just read

a couple of passages from Psalm 89. This is verse 5. It says, the heavens praise your wonders, oh, Lord, your faithfulness to in the assembly of the holy ones. So at first you think, oh, well, he's just talking about people. But watch what it says. For who in the skies above can compare with the Lord? Who is like the Lord among the heavenly beings? Well, this same idea. Heavenly realm, heavenly assemblies. Listen to verse seven.

In the council of the holy ones, God is greatly feared. He is more awesome than all who surround him. Oh, Lord God Almighty, who is like you. So it seems to validate what I just got through saying. And I don't think it's something that we should stay away with. I mean, why is it not where God, who wants a human family, because he is love,

why and he's given us responsibility to do what to image him we're supposed to reflect he he didn't create us without a purpose in fact when he created man he actually gave man authority remember over the beast of the earth so i believe he did the same thing in the celestial world i think they all had jobs to do i believe that was the original purpose for satan when you read ezekiel 28 And to read another passage that goes along with this, even in Job 1, I don't know if you all studied this in preparation for this, but just the conversation itself that led to the story of Job seems to give what he's referring to here some legs. I'm going to look up where Job is. Esther, Joe, I'm seeing that song in my mind. It's way back because he's one of the most ancient one. So while you're looking that up, Jay's, I'll say this.

Another couple of examples to what Jay's is talking about is, you read about it, Luke 15, where there seems to be an interaction and a thought process from the heavenly realms and the beings there with earthly beings. Remember what it says when a sinner returns, the heavens rejoice, the heavens, angels in joyful assembly rejoice. So there's this connection. I thought about Ephesians 310. The church is the manifold wisdom of God.

that the heavenly realms would look down and see the purpose of God. So there's this idea that there's two different species is not a right word. Dimensions. Well, it goes back to what we've been talking about, even the nations. So the interpretation you guys are talking about is that the divine counsel in Psalm 82 is in the gods. I've made you guys when Jesus says that. He's talking not about human beings, but about the divine counsel,

these celestial beings that were. put in charge and had certain types of authority. So when you go back to like Genesis 6 and also Genesis 11, where the sons of God, they had sex with the women and created these, you know, whatever species. I was going to get to that. Just before we get to that part of it, because the point of Psalm 82, the reason we need to address the point.

Why did he go there? And he was basically saying that, there are lesser gods. Now remember, when I'm using that term, that's what it says. But they're celestial in nature from the God space world who were obviously created for a purpose, and I believe to help humans reach their potential. So I think it's like a three-legged creation system where you have God, you have the celestial beings, and you have the humans, and the celestial beings have a role. Even Satan, when you read Ezekiel 28,

had a role, he was supposed to guard. He was the cherubim guard in the garden. And the pride of having that role, which led to his demise, you know, could have contributed to that. Which, which does that. Yeah, I think the point of Psalm 82 is just real simple, simply put, is that it's a, the Christ, the Messiah is going to be the one who will inherit

the dominion and the authority. He's like it's like God's taking that dominion and authority that was given to the divine counsel, which they butchered, by the way, right? And he's moving that to Christ. And that's why it says at the end, oh God, judge the earth for you shall inherit the nation. So when we talk a whole lot, you mentioned that Ephesians passage, of the manifold wisdom of God. But that's all about the nations, right? The inheritance of the nations that Christ will inherit the nations. The Christ will establish the kingdom.

The Christ will have dominion and authority. And so when you get to John 10, you're seeing Christ take his rightful place, right? He's taking his rightful place in the calling of the nations, that Christ is actually going to be the one who is going to take the place of all of these Elohims. Which I think is why it's. back when he said, I am the gate, that's the significance of that. Because think about it, you mentioned it.

Satan was a gatekeeper of sorts in the garden. But unfortunately, he became a gatekeeper to a death choice instead of a life choice because of his influence. But they were referred to as sons of God. Now, look, there's only one the son of God, which was Jesus. And I think he was making a point. Well, you don't have a problem reading Psalm 82 and saying, well, there's other sons of God. I'm just telling you, I'm the son of God. I'm just telling you, I'm the son of God that came from the father.

Yeah, good point. Yeah, I think that was his point, because I don't want to get off into this where we lose what his point was. But he also said in Psalm 82 that these gods who did not, which obviously they had the same choice system that humans have, and they chose not to do their role that God created. And guess what's going to happen? He said, they will die like men, mere men. Which tells you that they're not mere men because they're going to die like mere men. Exactly.

It does kind of make the way. We're not creating this. Jesus is the one that sent us back here, so I think it should be addressed. I did want to read this Job 1 because I think it shows you what their roles were supposed to be. This is verse 6. It says one day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord. Well, here we're back to the divine counsel idea. What are they doing presenting to the Lord?

And Satan also came with them. The Lord said to Satan, where have you come from? And you got to remember his name means accuser. So like somewhere in his role, he's bringing accusations to test the validity of humans. And Satan answered the Lord. Listen to this. From roaming the earth going back and forth in it. So evidently, that was his role in some capacity, whatever.

Then the Lord said to Satan, have you considered my servant, Joe, there's no one on earth like him. So I brought that up because I want to give you in the short minute that we have left, there is an interesting story in First Kings 22, and we can just introduce all this, and then in the next podcast maybe put a bow on it. But everybody that I've ever read this to when they ask me questions about the Divine Council, because it goes to the place where Zach is going,

where there is obviously a celestial being rebellion that happened in Genesis 6 that nobody's talking about. We only talk about the human. But there's also this rebellion where some of these gods, little G, they go to the nations, which is another rebellion against doing what God said to do, which is fill the earth and multiply, which is how the nation of Israel was formed in the first place. You have other nations with the little G gods, and they're all in cahoots, and what happened? A lot of evil.

Yeah. So, but I want to, I just want to mention this, First King's 22. Read that story because there's this issue about a king, and he's wanting to check with a prophet to see if he was in good standing with God, it's a couple of funny lines in there. He's like, I don't want to use that prophet, because every time he tells me something, it's something bad that God has in store for me or whatever.

So this, in the middle of that story, All of a sudden, this prophet from God tells a story about where he got his information, and it's a divine counsel setting where a bunch of spirits are presenting ideas to God. It's not that God didn't know everything, but he chose to use a counsel to come up with ideas. And they basically come up with an idea in this divine counsel gathering with God that actually worked, And it led to a king losing his life, which was God's will because the king was not exalting God as the true God. But read the story, and that way, if everybody reads it and gets on the same page, we can finish this up. All right.

We'll pick it up there next time. God versus God's Unashamed. Yeah, that's a good theme line on how to look at it. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on. Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.