Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1125 | Jase Confronts the Evil We're Dealing with, Self-Destructive Behavior & the Devil's Schemes

Episode Date: July 11, 2025

Jase gets unexpectedly convicted by a handwritten “Thou shalt not steal” note from a co-worker, while Zach wages war against a household rebellion centered around a broken toilet. The guys delve into an often-overlooked biblical discussion about fallen celestial beings and the cosmic battle between good and evil. They explore Genesis 6, the Nephilim, and how spiritual rebellion in the heavenly realms impacted human history. In this episode: Genesis 2, verse 10; Genesis 3, verse 15; Genesis 6; Genesis 9; Genesis 11; Genesis 12; Deuteronomy 32, verse 8; Numbers 13; 1 Samuel 17; Isaiah 14; Colossians 1, verse 15; Colossians 2, verses 12–15; Ephesians 3, verse 10; 1 John 3, verses 7–10 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. Zach in the last podcast, Jason was talking about being Dashered with the showing up of a large group of young people that invaded his home. We didn't mean that as a slight, but you are a Dasher. Yeah. And yet you were telling us you've been Dashered. I got Dasher, too, yeah.

I just got Dashered. Tell us about that. Yeah. Yeah, the way, it's like locust, you know, like going back to the X-IS. They descend, the dashers, and I don't do this, but it's my kids. I think it's really more Jill's influence. They descend on a location, and it's like. There's actually a story and revelation about locust within the context of judgment on oppressors.

So is that what you mean by locust? Well, he means basically they started in one end of your snack cabinet, and they finish on the back end. Is this another homogenous, the last podcast, Zach brought that word up. And my instinct was to say, what does this have to do with milk? And so I said that after the podcast, and Zach was like nothing. And we looked it up and out, was I right? You're right. It's homogenized.

It means there's two meanings. It's an adjective of milk, meaning subjected to a process in which the fat droplets are emulsified. And the cream does not separate. That's homogenized milk. Because if you take milk, before you go through the homogenation process, it separates. But give the alternate definition. Alternate definition made uniform or similar, a homogenized society. So you were both right.

Yeah, that's what it does to the milk, though. So the verb, homogenize, you're homogenizing the milk because you're bringing it, it's not separating. It's all I get it. It's e pluribus unum. In the spirit of my dad. In the spirit of my dad. hey, I get it.

I was just wondering why you were bringing up milk in the middle of a spiritual warfare conversation. At least he knew that it had something to do with milk, Zach. That's good. That's a positive. Yeah, so I got dashed because during the hurricane, we did not have water. And so the way we would flush our toilets

is we would go out to our pool, which is a saltwater pool. And so I'd get a little bucket, thogallet in a bucket. I'd haul it inside and you pour it. Oh, by the way, you're not supposed to pour it in the, like, the container at the top that holds the water. You actually just pour it in the bowl. Oh, so the salt would tear down your system back there.

Yeah, so they were pouring it upstairs in the upstairs bathroom. They were poured the water in that, in like, the tank that holds the water. And so... There's a lot of little small metal parts in there. And the rubber. So now the toilet leaks. Oh, yeah. And so another problem with the storm is you can't get a plumber out here because, I mean,

it's, well, you can't get handy, man. It's just crazy. Did it ever occur to you to maybe just walk outside in the woods? I mean, I don't mind doing that. I mean, and I would do that. He lives in the middle of town. I do live in the middle of town. It's not like where I lived in Louisiana on 50 acres.

You can pee off your front porch. Well, in fact, I never peed in the toilet until I moved here. I find something freeing about the world being in my urinal anyway. So, yeah. Oh, if Fred's outside peeing off the porch, I'm like, Fred, you realize we live in the neighborhood. Like, people can see you doing that. Like, I had to train my kids.

No, you pee at the toilet. Yeah. But anyways. I forgot you lived in town. But I live in town. The toilet broke. James would know that if he didn't just blow the horn from the interstate. If you actually stopped at your house, he might know that.

Well, he would know that. Well, I put a, anyways, I put a sign on my toilet. And because I'm waiting for somebody to come fix it. And the sign says, well, I started off with a toilet broke. don't use. And I put a sign. Like I taped it on the, they take that off and then they pee in the toilet.

So then I'm like, so then I like up the game. Then the next sign I did was under no circumstances are you to pee in this toilet? Yeah, guess what happens? They still pee in the toilet. So the last sign I'm saying, I'm serious now.

I'm serious. I think we have an authority. We have an authority issue. Oh, it's an issue. I put stop in red, like a red stop sign, danger. Do not use toilet. Danger, danger, danger. And that was the sign that was, and I wrapped it around both the toilet seat and the cover, toilet cover.

And so it's like taped. Like, you have to like, that's a whole thing. And I get up there this morning and there's fresh pee in the toilet. like fresh pee in the toilet and I'm like so I go wake all the kids up it's like 630 in the morning I'm like did you pee in the toilet and I'm like what what what dad did you pee in the toilet that I told you not to pee in and I went to every room and everybody's like they didn't do it so then I go downstairs I'm like Jill like like nobody says they peed the toilet but there's clearly pee in the toilet like somebody peed in the toilet and then my daughter comes

downstairs so I didn't think to ask because she's in town And she's an adult who's married now. She's an adult who's married. She takes the sign off the toilet and pees in the toilet. And then, I'm like, what's that? You know what the sad thing is, Zach, at the end of the day, you can only blame yourself. It's poor parenting somewhere in the line. It comes back to you.

I don't think it's me. I mean, I'm saying if your adult children are still defying you, then you fail. It's a parent. Don't pee in the toilet. At some point, it's your. fall. You got out of them. But I did it. There was that moment like, like in this 80s sitcom, I'm complaining to Jill and then everything just freezing, but you got Dashered. I got Dashered by my own kids. I got a dasher got dashered. Yeah. Well, it's like Jay, remember when he had the little. I was thinking the exact same thing, the sign on the refrigerator. He did that in the duck call, right?

It said Exodus 20, Thou shalt not steal. That worked. Did it? So, yeah. Sometimes you just got to go straight to the commandments. Wait, what was happening there? Well, people kept, we had a little refrigerator in the duck call room, and you know what happened. People were taking his drinks out and drinking. I was guilty of it.

I'd open up the refrigerator. I'm like, ooh. Coal water. Well, whatever it was, you know, this was before the sign. Now, once he put the sign on there, I thought, oh, this wasn't for everybody. I just assumed somebody here.

He went right past man and went straight to God. thou shalt not steal. Exodus 20, whatever the verse is. Nobody ever touched it again. Well, I think he up the game. I think that goes into what we're going to talk about today when we left off a couple podcasts ago with this divine counsel. You have to understand that there's a cosmic battle going on. I mean, the defiance of peeing in the toilet,

that's not just like a random act. That's part of the cosmic battle or the stealing of the drinks out of the fridge. That's part of the cosmic battle. Yeah. And somehow we try to line, things up at the lower level. So good segues that. We were in the last time we were in John chapter 10, we'd gotten into this Jesus quoting Psalm 82. We read the Psalm and had this idea about the gods and we got into this idea about spiritual beings. And we just barely got into us.

So we want to finish that discussion because a lot is in Hebrews about this idea. Remember when Hebrews 1, Jase, when it talks about Jesus being made a little lower than the angels. And so you get this idea that there's sort of a, there's a hierarchy in terms of creation and the impact into humanity. And even Jesus himself subjected himself lower than heavenly beings when he became a man. I mean, that's a powerful statement when this is the literary of this other guy. Well, and even like in Hebrews 13 where it says, some of you have entertained angels without knowing it.

Yeah, so it said be kind to strangers. you never know. And so that tells you right there that there's still an interaction that goes up. Well, and that kind of goes back to the Genesis 6, which is probably the most neglected chapter in the Bible. Because it's like the sons of God

had sex with the daughters of men and produced the giants. The Nephilim. Yeah, and then you see this, well, you know, when you carry that all the way through, I think even Joshua, they took out a lot of the giants that came from that. it's mentioned in there, but then even David and thank Goliath.

So, because that Genesis 6 said, and they will be on the earth. Because you think, well, the flood that took care of that, but there's a kind of a reference, and I think it's six four, six four or five, that they did it again. It was like, yeah, it's like they did it again. Yeah, they just. It wasn't a one-time thing. And you see that, like, remember in the story of Sodom and Gomar? So two angels were there, but they looked like me.

because all the people, the city was so corrupt and sinful that they were banging on the door, wanting those, what they thought were two men. And it actually, the Bible was very graphic there. It says so they could bring them out so we can have sex with them. Yeah. And so, and then it's kind of a, the story gets a little weird because Lot was like, well, I have two daughters. And, I mean, I actually just think he's with two supernatural representatives.

So I think he was more thinking. they will handle this in whatever way, but I mean, I'm not sure. I don't know how you all feel when you read that text, because it's an ancient text. Obviously, it was a long time ago. But when I read that, it embarrasses me for humanity. Yeah. And I see the same thing today. When you're watching a parade of individuals and one of our major cities here in America,

I'm embarrassed by some of my countrymen. The way they act is so animalistic in nature. It's like, I'm embarrassed. various of humanity at times. And because those are the sort of things you see. And so it's like, hey, we got representatives here from another realm, and you're going to act like this? You're going to try to call them out to have sex with them in the street.

And I think if you put it into context, what we're kind of asserting is there's obviously something to the celestial divine powers, which it's a little more easy to understand, I think, in the New Testament, because by Jesus's death, bound resurrection, there was a disarming, there was a limiting of their powers. And even in Ephesians 3, when he talks about the church speaks this truth to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, I mean, which is quite the thought. That's Ephesians 310.

And the disarming is the Colossians 2. When in chapter 1, remember, he said, maybe I should read that. But what I was going to say is, when you go back and look at Genesis, it's like a progression. You have this evil spirit looking like a snake

or is represented like a snake. But obviously not the kind of snake we imagine because the curse, he was then, the snake slid on the, so this is something was up walking around. I mean, this is... Well, right, it was some form. But not unlike, well, you know,

what about Sodom and Gamar? They thought they were men, but they weren't. Or the one where I read in Joshua 5 on the last podcast, where he comes up on the guy, he's got a sword, he thinks he's a guy from Jericho. Well, yeah, this is some celestial being here. The commander of the army of the Lord, whatever that means.

So what I was going to say is you see the progression, though, of how everything deteriorated. Just think about it. You know, Adam and Eve sinned, but God, you know, came to him and had a conversation. Now, granted, there were some curses that he issued to the evil one, which is where we get the whole birth of the son of man coming, Genesis 315. And then there's then this idea with the woman, remember, and it says your desire will be for your husband, but he will rule over you. So you kind of get the different roles established between the husband and the wife, which I think is a neglected passage. Zach's dad reads that verse all the time in a joking way.

but just when he's in the pro talking about his wife you know you're talking about when he whistles and tells her to hop up in the truck you know yeah all that and he's like hey genesis three the curse you know i'm ruling over you you know he gives a whistle and he's a hop come up get hop in the truck but i don't think but he but he is joking he is joking don't take that the truth is is is that he was he that my mom was the alpha he he is he is and i'm saying i don't think it means what we you know, think it means, but I do think it's, we have different roles in our relationship, especially in the husband and wife. And then even with Adam, he makes this deal about, you know, the ground being cursed and thorns and thistles. And then it's like you'll eat the grass,

kind of like what the animals were supposed to do, to your point. Because you were supposed to rule over the animals. And now you're acting like one. You're based on instinct. And look, that thing continues. through that. If you really look at all the details of that, but then you see, well, how so much so that you get to Genesis 6 and it had fallen apart to the point where he says, you know what, I wish I hadn't even made you, it's time for a massive flood. All right. I mean, that's how bad things go. But then he still said, okay, here's the new plan. And then, but what happens next?

Well, then it evolves, you know, downward in that Kane kills Abel. Well, now we have murder. Yeah. And what I find fascinating about that statement is when God said sin is crouching at your door? Well, it gives you the idea of the animal again, like crouching sin is this crouching animal, you're acting like animals again. Well, then when you get to Genesis 6, you see the celestial fall with humans. So evidently now somehow they can get together and it produced giants, but then it just got worse because then it led to the flood.

Because it's like when he looked around the whole world was filled with violence. And I think these people are right who have studied this in detail. It's like when you look at what happened with the celestial influence, kind of like what the evil one did with the humans, humans became way worse, which led to the flood. And he did inference that they would be here after the flood, which they were, which is why I think you have the story of the giants. And even Jesus went back in First Peter, in Peter's writing,

and remember when he said he went back to the spirits of those who were disobedient in the days of Noah? Well, what's he talking about? He's talking about this fall of these celestial beings and their influence on humanity, which, by the way, I've said this before at some podcast. He then starts talking about baptism, which I heard somebody do a lesson on that that say, you know, baptism for the Christian is an act of spiritual warfare, because he tied that in with Jesus going back to the spirits, and then he used that as an analogy,

which is really powerful if you look at that. Because what are you doing when you're baptized, being baptized, you're basically saying surrendering yourself, but you're also telling the supernatural celestial world, I'm done with you and your influence. And the spirit moves in, which is what I think, the message that Jesus was speaking to the spirits of the dead, Yeah.

These, because Second Peter talks about these celestial beings being locked up. Yeah. Until their time of the dungeons. And look, all this makes sense. Even think about the pigs, you know, when he cast out the demon and he has this conversation with the demonic forces. But remember what they said? They said, well, send us into the pigs because, you know, our time has not yet come. So they were, they had some idea that their time was limited.

Well, to piggyback on that, Jays, you remember the conversation that Jesus had. was Satan himself, when Satan was tempting Jesus in the wilderness after that 40-day fast, he proudly proclaimed as he looked around to the splendor of the kingdoms, which would include Rome and every other power of that day. And he said, they belong to me. So before Jesus even completed his mission on earth, Satan was like, I got humanity. I got them. They're in my pocket.

To think about the correlation of baptism, I just thought about this, but this is actually pretty powerful. If you read the story of the Exodus, there's a part, and not just in Exodus, but the whole story. Moses sends spies in, I think in Caleb as well, they send these spies in to go spy on the promised land, which is where the Canaanites are at and these other groups of people. And so when they came back to report this, I think it was in numbers, let me look it up, I think it's numbers 13. it says that they went in and they're like, yep, we confirm,

it is the land flowing of milk and honey, but there's a problem. The nephalum are there. There's a lot of giants. There's no way we can take them out. And so they did not go. 10 out of 12 said we can't do it. And they didn't go in, and they didn't do it.

And so, but then you fast forward, right? And then there's this moment in Joshua that symbolizes baptism now that they go through the Jordan River, which goes back to the whole baptism in the Jordan River. Exactly. The Israel goes through the Jordan River, like we go through the waters of baptism to find salvation. They went through the Jordan River

when it parted to find salvation. But you know what they did when they went through the Jordan River right after they got them the other side? They went to battle, and they did the thing that God told them to do the first time, and they killed every single one of those people. And you think, well, man, that sounds so harsh. Well, what you have to understand is that it was Nephlem.

there was these other these, I don't know what you call them, but they went in there and they killed every last one of them because it was a spiritual battle. It was part of God's cosmic plan. And the only place that they didn't really go to was the area like where the

Philistines would live. And I think it makes sense then when you fast forward then to David's time and you see Goliath who was also a descendant from the Nephalome. That's why he was there. Because Joshua and them did not go into that territory. But I think it's It's important, and there's so much symbolism, not symbolism, not saying the right word.

There's an overlay in the New Testament of God is actually accomplishing all the things that went wrong in the Old Testament. He's accomplishing in the New Testament. So these places that he goes to, that Christ goes to, these are like territorial disputes that Christ is then conquering by casting out demons. These are like territorial disputes. It's a cosmic battle, and I think this is important for us to see because things aren't just happening like in a vacuum. Like there is a divine strategy on the part of Yahweh. And there's also a lesser divine strategy on the part of the lowercase Elohims. And there's a cosmic battle. And we're actually involved in it. We are actually involved in that battle. So it kind of raises the stakes for us,

I think, to think of it that way. It's funny. So you didn't know this, but you went there naturally. Yesterday in my sermon, I started in First Kings. in that story in 1st, King 17, of David and fighting Goliath. And the reason why is because it was his first act as the secretly anointed king of Israel. Nobody knew he was king, but God. And what tied the two stories together was that David declared, as he was about to go to battle

with Goliath, the battle is the Lord. Which was the same concept you got earlier in Joshua. So my point was the Joshua setting that you described was the precedent for the fighting of anybody of the people of God going forward. And you're right, including the destruction of the Nephlin, which was a little bit of the leftovers from this earlier deal. So that's very good. Well, I wanted to bring up before I read the Colossians, because Zach made me think. Another passage that's used in this is Deuteronomy 32. I don't know if you've studied that

day. Yeah. Well, I did whenever I read the Heiser book, because he calls his whole kind of thesis the Deuteronomy 32 worldview. Oh, yeah. And it goes back and looks at what happened at the Tower of Babel. There's some interesting verses in here. But everything we've been saying is basically, which that led to this, which is them under these rebelling gods, sons of God, the celestial beings with humans, to them building a tower,

to make a name for themselves. That's Genesis 11. So that's what I said. You can see how this thing de-escalates. Well, in Deuteronomy 32, he says, I'll read a couple of verses of this, and you'll see why I'm reading this. He basically, I don't know where I should pick up. I'm trying to get to verse 8, which is the verse of...

I start at verse 7 then. Yeah, let's try that. Remember the days of old. Consider the generations long past. father and he will tell you to explain this. Yeah, verse 8. When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, when he divided all mankind. Well, that's Genesis 11.

Yep. He divided all the nations and what Heiser and others think on the celestial beings, that some of these celestial beings became like, I guess, the rulers of the nations, which is why they became so corrupt. And then out of that, God picked Israel. But that was the forming of the nation. But when you finish reading 8, well, it doesn't make sense unless you kind of look at the Hebrew.

It says when he divided all the mankind, he set up boundaries for the people. And watch what this says. According to the number of the sons of Israel, well, Israel hadn't even been established at that time. Right. So there's a little letter beside Israel, and when you look at what that means,

and look at the Hebrew, well, guess what it says? Sons of God. Sons of God. And so his whole point for years, people are not making that connection that these celestial beings were with the humans and they divided the nations.

And when Jesus, who became an Israelite, God's chosen, from God's chosen nation, does what he does when he gets on the planet, redeems Israel through his death on a cross, and is resurrected. And then what does he say?

Well, now go into all the world and prays the gospel. to all nations. So it wasn't just that he was redeeming Israel. He's redeeming all the other nations that went off to follow other gods, even though they were celestial in nature and had a purpose to do who abandoned their post. And it also shows you our human infatuation with extraterrestrial alien. We're all fascinated by it.

And the reason why is because it's all over the Bible. Well, that's what I'm saying. At some point when you read it, you're like, I mean, it's turned into big-eyed, big-headed things, but in the ultimate thing, it's all over the Bible. It's giant people. It's just what can humans digest. They like the idea of David whooping a giant, you know, with the rock.

But they're like, but they don't like really how the giant got here. Exactly. But if you. Well, I think, don't you think it helps so to understand, like, because one of the big questions that I've had is, as reading the Bibles, man, like the whole Canaanite genocide. I mean, like, that's like, that never really sat well with me. And I've always kind of, well, it's got...

I read it yesterday. It's hard to read, right? It's even hard to read. People who don't know what you're talking about. I mean, there was whole cities that were wiped out by God's judgment and all this. But that's what was happening. You have these celestial beings just satisfying human cravings and, you know, where we all struggle. but it just turned into an evil that was so corrupt and was so anti-God that judgment

you know, happen. And that's when you trust God sovereignty. Well, yeah, because we're imagining it as like, you know, like small town USA, we're just out there going down there and having a soda pop in Mayberry. That's not the culture of what we're talking about. Like, we can't even comprehend it because it's a, it is a, it is a, supernatural, like, evil that's permeated and mingled in with humanity. It's things that we can't comprehend, like, how horrible these places were. And so it does help me to kind of process,

at least, not that I need to give God approval for how he wants to run the world, right? Right. But it does help me to understand God's strategy. He has a divine strategy in human history, and he is accomplishing that, and there is a cosmic battle going on. I mean, it's like any other war that would happen. Like, yes, would it be best to not have the war? Absolutely in a perfect world, but we don't live in a perfect world. And sometimes evil is there, and it has to be eradicated. And so that's what God's doing.

Well, and then even he says at the end of the Jericho incident from my sermon yesterday, that he says, don't rebuild this. This is done. Like, this is over. If you do, it'll be at the cost of your own children. Well, guess what? We get over to First Kings 17 in the days of Ahab, and some guy comes along and says, well, I know what was said, but I'm rebuilding the city. And guess what?

He lost his kids. And it's exactly even what we see to this very day, and I made the illustration, that people will live in such a way that they don't care if they sacrifice their children. And look, we see that in our culture today. We had a former first lady just within the last two months that said women being pregnant has nothing to do with children. Yeah. I mean, how do you even get to that point of view that you'll say that and believe that, and yet that's where we are? And what do you see there, which is Satan's tool, and it's all over the Bible, about him using death? He's a murder from the beginning. Still, kill, destroy, right? We just talked to bring. Hebrews too, it's like Jesus came to destroy him who had the power of the death. That's right. Of death. And all these references.

of, you know, the evil one, the accuser being Lord of the realm of the dead, those under the earth. I mean, all these references are all over the Bible. Let me say this real quick, though, that when you read, because you were talking about Noah, in Genesis 1, when God creates humanity, he tells them in verse 28, he blesses them. So I think this is interesting. So what, because what you're talking about is the opposite of a blessing. It's a curse. It's a curse.

to bless them and God said to them, be fruitful and multiply and subdue the earth. That was his blessing. And so then in Genesis chapter 6, when God, actually chapter 9, when God blesses Noah, this is what it says. This is after he destroys the earth with the flood. And God blessed Noah, same language as Genesis chapter 1, verse 28, and his sons, and this is how he blesses him, be fruitful and multiply or fill the earth, subdue the earth.

And so it's the same, and then you get to Genesis 12, which is right after Babel, and he essentially tells Abram the same exact thing, be fruitful and multiply and subdue, fill the earth. And then you get to Exodus, and it says what Exodus did, in the first little paragraph of Exodus, it says that the Israelites were fruitful,

and multiplied and filled the land. And so Pharaoh comes in in that moment as the, that's the agent of death. Pharaoh is the agent of death. What he hated about the Israelites was that they were fruitful and they were multiplying and they were filling the earth. So that's always the battle.

So I don't think it's a, it's not a coincidence that you have someone in such a position of power, Al, that would attack the very foundation of life. That's what we're trying to say. This is not random. This is orchestrated by the cosmic realm of evil. You're right.

I was trying to wrap this up, but now he's opened up a rabbit hole that I must go down because I'm going to lay something on you. Zach opens a new rabbit hole for days. A theory that I have, and I wasn't planned on giving this, but he went to Genesis 9. Well, Genesis 9 is my world because the first four verses is the birthplace of hunting. But I want to put a theory out here for you. Up until that time, no animals were dying. Remember, he said, y'all eat the seed-bearing trees and plants.

But now when they send, he said, okay, now you're down to grass. And even that. The animal world will have a dread of you. Well, but then you get to Genesis 9 where that happens. And you're like, well, why is he introducing that they can now kill animals? Well, think about what's going to happen. animals will become sacrifices that, where's that verse, where it says they will be gifts of God during the sacrifice. Leviticus, I think it's Leviticus 17, 11, maybe.

It's in Leviticus somewhere. And that's what they turned into, and I believe it's because, okay, now there can be food for you. And I think he was setting a precedent that they would be, they're given their life so you can live, which would be a shadow of the sacrificial system of animals being. sacrifice, which would be a shadow of Jesus becoming our sacrifice. And now we're back to the sheep becoming a shepherd through his death and resurrection. And to your point, the reason why you're right about that is because at the Passover, when they were leaving out of Egypt, the blood was sacrificed on the doorpost to save their first

born, but then they ate that lamb because they were fixing to hit the road. So the idea was it linked from that point forward as a meal but also as the blood of sacrifice. So the animals got the raw end of this deal because they became sacrificing. Hunting began in Genesis 9. I mean, you read, I've read it a thousand times I could quote it to you. But he said from now on they will fear you and dread you. All of a sudden you're like, what happened? Because he was introducing the idea of death.

You've brought death into the world through poor decisions because you left out one verse. when the evil one, after God told the couple in the garden, he's like, if you eat of it, you'll die. Yeah. Well, what's the evil one say? You will not die. You will not die. Lie.

Lie. Which is why Jesus said he was a liar from the beginning. Because by that decision, he could now control people through that death, which is what he did. He wanted the power. He wanted to be God. That's basically the problem with the celestial world and our world. That's why we do so many self-destructive things. And become our little G-Gy God.

The animals, which we were supposed to subdue and rule over, we started acting like them. So then he let us kill them so we would understand there's got to be some kind of sacrifice. This is good. This is good because think about this. Think about in the world when, when, someone comes into an organization with that type of agenda. As Satan came in, he came into an organization, the earth, the world, the creation, and he had an agenda.

But he could not have, he could not have the power to create life. All he could do is have the power to do the death works. And I think that that's why when you look at like these infiltrations in the systems, like particularly like, like, you see it in churches, you see it in government, the bureaucrats will come in and what they'll do is they'll siphon off the life that was created in the thing, right? And all they can do is to bring death. It's like I heard someone say this about liberalism in churches. It said liberalism is like a cancer.

It can't grow anything. It can only grow in something. And I think that's the point, right? It's the death work. Like evil is always the death work. It's like cancer. It can't grow anything. It can only grow in something.

And as it grows, it grows a work of death that feeds off of the life. Well, God, God is... You gave the illustration years ago, and I brought it up on the podcast before, Zach. I never forget it about your boys when they were young. You said one of them will build this beautiful Lego village in hours just baking this amazing city. And his brother comes in and destroys it in two minutes. Yeah.

And to destroy something is fast and furious, to create something. is time essence, and it builds something that's of value and importance. Only God can do that. So it's a realm. The evil one introduced a realm of sin and death that the humans believe the lie and did. And that's why these verses that I'm fixed to read now make sense. So I've been waiting to read the rest of this for five years, but I think we're in a place that we can digest this. this rabbit hole to get to where you're going to go to. After John, we're going to get to First John. And some of First John is very confusing to believers.

Oh, yeah. Because they're like... But you're going to be reading out of Genesis 9, correct? No, I'm not going to read. I'm going to assume everybody... If you've been following me, I literally quote Genesis 9. I quote it yesterday. I have quoted that thousands of times

because it is the birthplace of hunting, and I am a hunter. But you set me up for a way to explain my theory. that I believe it's the truth, you know, because animals weren't dying up until that point. So, well, you're like, well, I think I explained that. But now, if I read 1st John 3, because this is the good news, when it says, dear children, this is 1 John 3, 7, do not let anyone lead you astray.

He who does what is right is righteous just as he is righteous. Now just watch where he goes with this. He who does what is sinful is of. of the devil. Why would he say that? Well, we just described how that happened when he said, if you eat of the tree, you'll die. And the evil one said, oh, no, you won't die. Well, that's what sin and death had its origin. So watch what it says. He who does, what is sinful, is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. Well, where's the beginning? We just read it in Genesis 2. It's our beginning. He was lying. And the human,

were disobeying God. Correct. And watch what this next verse is. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. That makes sense. So then here's the part that's hard to understand, but in the context of everything we just said, it kind of becomes clear. No one who is born of God.

Well, now we're getting into Jesus created the scenario where we could be a new creation, a new humanity in Jesus. Because he destroyed, what, two powers? Sin and death. Not just sin and death, but the power of it that the evil one contributed to, which is a spirit that is at work and those who are disobedient, Ephesus too. So then it says no one who is born a God will continue to sin. Well, here's why people are saying, well, what do you mean? Because I still sin, even though I'm born again.

But he's talking about that ramp, you're free from the dimension. of sin and death. Think where it says, Jesus said the law of the spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. You're now free from that power. You've been forgiven. So God knows your heart.

He's moved in. You're like, oh, I messed up. But I'm not under that dominion. Grace is now able to cover what you did, what you're doing, and what you will do because you're out from under that realm. He disarmed it is my point. And to your point there, if you see in a practical situation where you say,

maybe say you treat your wife terrible and then you say, man, I'm convicted because the Holy Spirit convinced, I shouldn't have done that. And you go back and say, honey, please forgive me. I mean, that's a completely different reaction of a new realm than what you would have done if tomorrow you do the same thing and the same thing and the same thing. Now, I realize people listening to this are probably pushing back, said, oh, but I'm, I skipped over the first three chapters of 1 John. He basically explains what my position through that, because he's like, Jesus is at the right hand of God. We have an advocate. We have God's spirit. And he actually

says, if you claim to be without sin, you're a liar. So somewhere in there is an explanation. And if you're wondering if this is practical, just follow somebody around that once was in the other realm and now was in a new realm. Tell me if they're different. You'll see it. So suspend your arguments until we get to first John. But we read all that because we wanted to read the good news. But this is why I'm going to read these three in succession and we'll move on and introduce John 11, which is about what? Overcoming death. Resurrection. He raised a dead man. That's why we're spending so much time on this. He references 82. He brings in the celestial world. He says, hey, I'm the son of God. I'm the son of God. Remember the criticism. You a mere man. That's what started.

came here to destroy the power of sin, death, and the celestial powers that are contributed. I am the son of God. There's only one God. All these other entities were created for a purpose. They, like the humans, left their posts. Which shows you it's really the best argument ever for why people and celestial beings have a choice in the matter. Which is key to everything. Because we're created in the image of God. He has a choice. He created us in his... We have a choice. Celestial world included. Correct. He didn't make robots out of celestial beings or humans.

And so he knew we would choose that. So guess what? He chose love. So I want to read this. That's why these verses that are hard to figure out make sense. When he says Ephesians 6, that be strong in the Lord and his mighty power, put on the full armor of God

so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. But then he says this, for our struggle is not against flesh and blood. well look most people think that their struggle is against another human look at all the humanly conflicts and now here god is saying through paul's writing feel the holy spirit oh no no no it's deeper than that how many times have you both talked to a couple that were embroiled in such conflict and you say the simple truth of your wife is not your enemy well now here i mean that but you can get to a place where you wake up every morning you think the person

and laying next to you is your enemy. Now here's where we have to have a disclaimer, because some people read everything we've talked about, and they go too far, and they lift up this celestial world to a godly status. They're created beings. Correct. They're not making you do anything.

Correct. So what the picture is, they're in cahoots humans with the celestial powers that are unseen to your eye. But we all know, even the unbelievers in this world, world. Even people who don't believe, when you say, is there seem to be an evil presence in our world, even those people will say, oh, yeah, there's some evil. When you start looking at

serial killers and people, you know, drowning their babies. Genocidal dictators. Something is happening that is demonic in nature. And they're like, and I don't even believe in God. I'm like, I think you do. Yeah, that was the easy one. The hard one is, is then to think, do I, do I participate with the demonic and James would say that we all do. He would say that each one is dragged away and enticed by his own evil desires. So I think that's a great caveat. But I do think that what for me, understanding though that yes, I have my own evil stuff I got to deal with with me, but understanding that there is another realm that seeks to destroy me, it does kind of up the game and the ante for me and it ups the stakes of the game that there's a Hebrew's two

passage is very scary too, but it also goes to your point, because I think what you're saying is actually, I mean, I wish we had more time to really unpack this idea about power. Well, it's just unpack. But I think that's where we've missed it in American modern culture is because everybody says, well, okay, the first thing you've got to do is admit you're a sinner. Oh, it's deeper than that. There's a realization, and you especially see that in the book of John as we're going through. How come he keeps bringing up the evil one, and it's time for him to be condemned? We'll get to all that. Now darkness reigns.

Hebrews too says explicitly what you're saying. It says since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity. I'm talking about Christ for this reason. So that by his death, he might break the power, to your point, of him who holds the power of death. That is the devil. And free those who all of their lives were held

in slavery by their fear of death. Well, and that's very explicit. Back to my marriage illustration, and when Lisa and I sit down with a couple, the first thing we have to establish is this is like a tennis match, but you're not playing against each other. It's doubles tennis.

It's you and your spouse, and you're against sinful humanity and the evil forces in the heavenly realms. That's who's on the other side of the net. You've got to remember, this is the battle we're facing. We're in this together. And so if you don't fight this battle together,

you're never going to make it as a couple. Well, I think first of us, Solonians 2, the verse in there comes into play because it says, those who believe the powerful delusion have been taken captive by the evil one. That's the verse. It's generally what it is. And I think there's a realization not only that I'm a sinner,

but there's a realization that I've been the wrong camp here. Yeah. You know, when I was contemplating whether to give my life or Jesus, I had that thought. And it wasn't because somebody told me, I was reading the book of John, and I thought he keeps bringing up this evil power. I mean, at 14, I didn't know a whole lot about the celestial world. But you know what you knew about your buddies and what you saw.

And I thought, there's an evil power out there that if I listen to the lies, because it's a delusion. Somebody's not riding down the road saying, oh, I'm under the power of the evil one. But when you look at what Jesus has to offer and you think about the two dominions out there of sin and death, which everyone participates in that's at the age of accountability or they just die. You start saying, well, this is making way more sense. There's two sides. Which side am I own? And then when you look at your life, it becomes pretty clear which side you're...

Well, Jeff tells a story about when he was first started getting into the double life and getting into the worldly stuff when he went into a local bar here in town. and there was another person that goes to our church at White Sveyor Road, and he saw him there. And at first when you see somebody, you know, it's like, uh-oh, you know, we're out here, but we're both in the wrong place. And he went up to this young man, and the young man said, we've been waiting for you to get here.

Yeah. Well, that encapsulates. I mean, that really just captures that argument that, like, the evil Rams are saying, come on in. Don't ever doubt it. Look, the world is just as to use a. Christianese word is just as evangelistic. And they love when someone who's been going to church and they're like, oh, come on and

join us. Because I think the delusion is if it's a bunch of us, maybe God wouldn't punish it. I mean, what's he going to do? Punish us all? Right. Yeah. It's happening. Because without Jesus, what are you left with?

Your sins and your death. What's your plan B to death? So we're almost out of time. But I wanted to skip back and read Ephesians 316 because it's very powerful. And it says the church, which now we're getting into why God chose us and gives us his spirit. Because we make known the wisdom of God to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly realms. That's our job is to go out and say, look, there's a new creation. There's a new humanity that Jesus has formed.

he disarmed the powers, which gets to Colossians 2, and I want to read it. I'm going to read chapter 1 in verse 15, Jesus is the image of the invisible God, for by him all things were created. Now listen to this carefully. Things in heaven and on earth visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities, all things were created by him and for him. And this is the good news. All these powers that we're discussing, the evil one, the celestial beings, the fallen,

celestial beings that were leading humans to do sinful things and are still doing that, they're all going to bend the knee to Jesus, Philippians too. And Colossians 2 says this when it says, and here we go back to baptism, tie that in with First Peter 3, you have the same concept. It said all of those who were circumcised in Christ have put off the sinful nature, the flesh, that the evil world is using to tell you a lie and get you to do bad things. but it says but Jesus cut that off

verse 12 having been buried with him and baptism raised with him through your faith and the power of God so here's this idea new creation new humanity when you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature

God made you alive with Christ which is the opposite of being dead in your sins and under the power of this evil world he forgave us all our sins he canceled the written code so we're not under the law, which leads to sin.

He took it away and nailing it to the cross, and then this next verse, Galocean 215. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them triumphing over them by the cross. I love it. So powerful. We're out of time. I went to say this on the last podcast,

but I mentioned that Unashamed Nation, those of you that came for the Faith Family Freedom, your stories inspire us to do what we do, and you all told me, you know, we love it. We love being a part of the Bible study, and thank you for that. Because without you guys, we wouldn't have anybody listen to these discussions.

So we love that. We love that we are now in the realm of the kingdom of God. That's what we're trying to do. So your life change stories are amazing. Next podcast, we'll get to John 11, and also, on his way to speak to seminary students tonight. And so I cannot wait to hear what he will lay on these young people who are there.

So we'll get an update. Just imagine 36 young Zaks in a room. And they've invited me, because I had to ask the question. I was like, why did y'all invite me? They're like, well, we noticed that you keep Zach in line. So we have 36 18-year-old Zax. that you need to simplify the mission of God and the purpose. So we cannot, we will be waiting, we will be waiting with Beatty breath to hear that.

Yeah, I'll pray for those young victims. All right, so we'll hear about that next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.