Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1127 | What Jase Learned About Grieving Phil from Lazarus

Episode Date: July 16, 2025

Jase makes a passionate case to become the nation's first "duck czar" after hearing about a waterfowl poop crisis at a public park. Al and Jase recall the time Phil raised 500 ducks for a conservation project, only to have the government storm the property and take them out in an unfair operation. Jase shares an unexpected God moment with a grieving stranger, which ends up being an encounter that helps him process some of his own grief over losing Phil. The guys explore the meaning of Christ as the “firstborn from the dead” and how that ties into creation, authority, and our spiritual identity. They emphasize that resurrection is more than an event—it’s a status Jesus uniquely holds, which shapes our understanding of salvation and eternal life. In this episode: Revelation 14, verse 4; John 11; Colossians 1, verse 15; Genesis 1, verse 26; John 1, verses 1-3,14; Romans 8, verse 29; 1 Thessalonians 4, verse 13 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Let's break the fourth wall on this one. Just no introduction. Well, welcome to the, yeah, we'll do it. Welcome to the Unashamed podcast. You couldn't stand it. You had to put that fourth wall back up.

I had to do it. But I need advice. And I think that, Jace, you're the guy. Oh, boy. And I should go to with this. Be careful what you is for, because I think you will attest. I will tell you the truth. And I got that from a guy named Jesus.

In love. Then relayed to a man named Phil. Speak the truth in love. Now, Phil, look, when he gave you his advice, it was bumpy sometimes. Well, I know me asking you this and telling you my situation of what we're going through right now. I know it's going to elicit some sort of ridicule and insult from you. I'm already prepared for that part of it. And yet you're asking anyway.

I'm asking anyways because he's desperate. I've been a part what we used to call duck court in the duck call room. Yeah. Temperors would flare, people, you know, any kind of work environment, people just have trouble getting along. And so, and it was actually size idea. He's like, let's just have duck court and settle it. Yeah.

Like, man, and we'd do it. Yeah. And sometimes they got loud. And Sa'i overdid it, you know, every time, like, because he was always the judge. Yeah. He got to. Just think about that. No matter what happens, Cy will make the decision.

When Sae is having a conversation like that, he gets very passionate about this decision. He gets fired all right. So let's hear. So here's my situation. Our house has kind of been Grand Central Station for church parties, but the church is outgrown. that we can't do the events at the house anymore. And so we got an event coming up and we reserved the whole pavilion

down at the local park, which is it within walking distance from my house. You walk down, it's like a pond that has a track around that's got tennis courts. It's got, it's a great place for a party. I walked down there yesterday. And when I tell you that the entire picnic area when I say covered in feces,

I mean, it's geese every, geese and ducks have taken over, over the thing and, and they just poop. I mean, it's the most disgusting thing you ever seen. So I'm like, Jill, we can't have a function down here.

You can't even, there's nowhere to walk. And so I called the town of Black Mountain, the parks and recreation, about, hey, what are you guys going to do? I said, we clean it off every morning, and there's nothing.

that we can do to get rid of these animals. It would be illegal for us to remove them. And so I'm curious, I mean, about the irony of it's thick, because I know you had a bat infestation, you figured out how to get rid of them. You are an expert in waterfowl. But we're in the city, so what's the... Well, let me start before Jay's answers that,

while he's contemplating, that Zach, just to already get... give you a little bit of chatting. Your house has been Grand Central Station for everything for as long as I've been coming to your house. So it's more than just your church functions. Your house is Grand Central Station. That is true.

Just know that right off the Lasson. I want to clarify that a little bit. I need to move to the park, but I need a legal way of getting a legal way. Yeah, that's a problem. I think I could take care of the problem,

obviously. And a few my friend. And I do not like the domestication of these wild animals. Because it leads to major problems. They're not designed for that. They're supposed to be moving on south. I mean, Canadian goose in Louisiana, you can only hunt them for five days and you can only shoot one. And no other season is open. And yet they're a plague to certain parts of our Well, that's the problem. You know, so they, you know, there's a greater problem there. But you're not going to be able to win that. I think what I would recommend is

I would divide into different houses. I would get smaller to get bigger. But, you know, I get it. You want to all be together. But that's a one party. I thought, I wondered if the town. If it's just one party.

But could the town, when I'm more, it's more about the town. I care about my town. So I have a different advice then. Okay. If it's just one. I thought you were going to make this a frequent occurrence. If it's just one time, do they have a water hose? They're a water hose. Yeah.

I think I would just have the party and then everybody line up when they leave at the water hose. It'd be fun. Fun for the kids. It's summertime. Am I right to say that to migratory birds? It's all regulated by the feds. But if the town, if the town did one day, they did a one-day done. season, goose season.

Well, I've already told you they should do that. But the problem is, and I do have some connections in that. I did offer in the current political administration, I'm not kidding. I offered to be the duck and wild foul czar. But, and I brought it up again. It still hasn't been. They didn't take you up on it. They didn't say no.

You know people whose last name. sounds a lot like the president's last night. And I was like, they just ignored the comment. They addressed out of the other, this was through a text. And, of course, I thought, I don't think they think I'm serious. Because they just put ha. Ha. I was, I was being serious.

You are offering your, like Elon Musk, you were offering your services, but I was wanting to say, look, I'm smarter in that world than you think. Yeah. And, you know, I was part of a. program that happened years ago, a small part, I was the only eyewitness, I guess, that when my dad got hooked up with some politicians and they were going to do a test to see if you could raise wild ducks in the states where wild ducks no longer visit, like Mallards in Louisiana, they don't come here anymore in mass, but they used to. And so, and they did this, a similar

test in South Carolina? No problem. But that ended poorly. Oh, did it end poorly? I thought about that. Well, I'm going to say this. The test. I'm not sure.

The statute of limitations. I never signed anything. But my dad and his neighbor, they raised 500 mallards. And what they did was they took a wild drake. And then they had a hen that was like, 99% while. I don't know all the biology of it all, but they did. What are they doing in South Carolina? And so they literally raised them. And they had a pond, but they never, and they fed them, but they never had human contact. Right. They just raised them up. And about the time they could fly,

somebody in the government didn't want that test. And I mean, the governor got involved. But the governor had backed it. She had backed it. Well, she did, but pressure. You know, I don't know all the details. Yeah. But I know this. They put a hit out on those poor ducks and sent representatives of the government, and they shot them. And which is all. They killed them all.

Well, they tried. No, no. No, they didn't kill them all. They, because I saw all the reports and all. And look, they donated the ducks to food shelters and all. So nothing, you know, as graphic and barbaric as that sounds. Because you tell people that are like the government. But I was thinking you would think they would at least let the duck hunters who raised them. If somebody was going to do some duck killing, they didn't get them.

I know one of the game wardens that got in on the hunt. So here's what's crazy. Well, they made some kind of arrangement. I wasn't involved. I'm just the son of the man he was involved and my dad is dead now. So that's the only reason I'm having this conversation. They're not going to come get him unless they do it Lazarus style. But, and look, and the other guy, his partner is, he's dead too.

So I think we're good. I forget the statute of limitations. We got, yeah, they're not, they're not penetrating the grave. So I was the only witness because they made some kind of deal because they were threatening my dad. My dad was hot. You know, he was like, well, it's not even duck scene. You're going to go down there on our property and shoot these poor ducks. But here's what how.

You kind of smack in the face of everything. And this is years ago. But here's the part that my. dad did like because these ducks had never been hunting they could barely fly they were young ducks they only killed 360 of the 500 so 140 you know what they did they said let's get the heck out of here and they flew off and we would and they had bands on them all so they those bands were turned turned in for years or hunters it actually worked I mean they were how far away did they that they go.

Wisconsin, Minnesota. They just went into the pool and took off. The test worked. Yeah. Wow. And we, of course, we shot the most bands that were turned in. Yeah, because a few that hung around. Well, they hung around, yeah.

And I think we got, I probably have about 20 to 30 of those bands. Of course, we didn't know they were those ducks. It was in duck season. Right. They come in, I'm like, double banded, you know, whatever they had. They had two bands on them. And so it worked. And guess what?

They tasted just like the rest of it. So it actually worked. And that's why my dad, he's like, boy, I tell you, you got to watch his government bunch. So that's why I'm saying when you bring up this issue, they, for whatever reason, they all have agendas on all this. And one of them, unfortunately, is the Canadian goose has become, they're not scared of humans.

And so they go to golf courses and tear them up, and they tear up crops and all. But they won't let you shoot them. And it's just a problem. Well, and think about this, to the greater issue, this is a classic government situation because because they're migratory and they cross state lines, they want to become in a federal situation. But when states don't handle them individually, this is what happens. And the federal government changes every four years.

So that's why you have so much of this wide-ranging craziness that happens when it comes to ducks and geese. The guys are there's nothing we can do about it. I said, oh, there's something you can do. do about it. He said, well, legally. I was like, my family, I didn't tell him, I was thinking, my family literally started a business that specializes in the solution of what the problem is here. That's a great point. The government bureaucracy, and I could not connect the two. I could not connect the solution to the problem, even though it exists. Well, it's like, you know, when they came up with the sanctuary system, well, it just, we, we shoot less ducks now because the government

bought all the prime real estate. Because they're like, well, we need a happy place for them to survive. Well, the Ducks figured that out. So my dad tried to propose legislation that it didn't work. Because he said, let veterans and kids, you know, they have a, in Louisiana, they have a Veterans Day. It's after Ducksies. Before and I take veterans and kids every year. Week prior, week after.

He said, all you need is to open up two days. in the sanctuaries and just let the veterans and the kids, you're not doing it. You're only doing it to keep the ducks wild. You don't want them domesticated. That wildness, they need that. So it's like your golf course or your park. Just let the veterans come in there and hunt one day.

Guess what? They'll move back. Problem solved. Yeah, they're not going to be pooping up there in the grass if you just fired some shots at some of them because they say, oh, I mean, they are supposed to be wild, and part of our job is to keep them wild. And I get what you're saying

because, Jay's, you remember we were playing golf down in Florida, just across the Alabama line one year, and there's all these Canadians that were living on this golf course, and they were mainly living on one green, and they were 17 green, and when you would hit your golf ball up there, it was like somebody

had taken a 10,000 pound bag of Tutsi rolls and poured it on that green. Oh, it's a problem. You couldn't even play golf. Well, look, and contrary to what you may or may not know, and some of who are like, oh, you shouldn't even mean hunt these animals. I mean, when you go back

to Genesis 1 and 2, the Lord put us humans in charge of the animal world. And, you know, all of us who are wilderness people, there are things that happen that you have to control the populations and they get out of hand from

raccoons to coyotes. I mean, it becomes a problem. And people like us are taking care of that for you so that everyone can function in life. Because if you didn't, and the government does the same thing.

They have special groups of people that go around and help control the population and take care of these things. There's a reason that every time like an alligator, which we did that last podcast, because one, every life is meaningful. So one every three years, there's still one life. But you know what they do?

They shoot that alligator. They take them out if they kill a human. or bear or anything else, which I'm grateful they do. But that's just the fact of life, because most of these people, they're like, oh, I just want to go live on a hill with the wolves. Guess what happens? They eat you. The bears maw you.

I mean, that's what happens. It's God designed this with an order. So that's what they should do. They should be more open to that. I would happily be a consultant. Because Hunter, Conner is that they're harder conservation is first because Exactly. Phil would say it's not about conservation.

It's about things dying, but he made a – he got out of – But he was joking because he – Yeah, but what he's done more for wildlife and waterfow and the habitat than hundreds of these kind of wildlife. No, but what he said one time to me was interesting. He talked about letting the Department of Agriculture actually run it because he said that their end goal is not conservation. maximizing of harvest. And I think about, like, that's a different goal. I think of what Jay's done on y'all's property.

I mean, you guys hunt deer on your property, but since Jay's been managing the deer population, the actual health of the population and the quality of the deer has dramatically in. Well, you know, it's quadruple. So, you know, the difference, the oversight of that is the state of Louisiana, which recognizes that. Yeah. And therefore, we as an individual group of people manage our property.

So, but the government doesn't allow you to do that, the federal government. So that's because it's the Department of the Interior to your points, Zach, that this is over. So you have swerved into quite a big thing. You know what? We may be on to something here. I think, I think, Jason, you should, I think you do need a role in the administration. Water files are. Push that through.

So here's what I say. Here's my advice after all that. My advice is you take all these yuppies down there and y'all stomp around in the poop Because until you, the outcry of the people is what has to happen. So don't try to say, oh. You got to get in the poop. I'm not leading a poop stomping. Oh, yes, you are.

Oh, yeah. Oh, you're doing it. If you're, I mean, you ask the advice. You've got to be willing to listen. I mean, Revelation 14.4, we follow the lamb wherever he goes. Well, you need to follow Jace. If you want to change the law. You've got to create an outcry from people that say, you know what?

I don't mind directing people to snobping the poop. But I'm not leading them into the poop, that's what I'm saying. I'll stand back from a distance. Well, Moses said the same thing, and God changed his mind. So be careful. A weird dream may be coming to you. You better give God glory and strike that rocks out. Because it is out of whack.

We're in charge of the animals. If they've taken over a park for humans, guess what? In Black Mountain, the animals are in charge of the people. Exactly. That's what happened. Yeah, we've given the dominion. Yeah, we have God-given dominion.

Let's go back to Genesis guys. But it's not as bad as us living like animals, which is then you're getting into sin and that kind of line of thinking, which we talked about in spiritual warfare. Yeah, which is good. All right. Well, I'm going to tell you a better story to lead into this.

So this happened a couple weeks ago. This is a better story. Well, I saved it. I was thinking, we're going to get into the resurrection. And y'all know me. When I was speaking at the college the other night, I was really, yeah, Hardy. And I was real happy when I got finished that one of the question was,

or was centered around, which was the point of my speech, which is, have you thought about what is Jesus doing now? Because most religious people say, what would Jesus do? Or it's so awesome what he did. And we always view it as a past thing that, or in that same light, viewing God is a million miles away. I wonder, yeah, I'm sure he's up to something.

Well, I asked that question. I said, what is he doing now? Crickets. I mean, because they were a vocal group, didn't have an answer on that. And I said, that's a bad sign. I mean, I was being blunt. But in that vein, I had this happen. So I'll just tell you this story.

It seems unbelievable. I wouldn't make this up because it's kind of a heavy story. But I'll just tell you what happened. And so we were struggling with my dad. So I'm going back a few weeks when my dad was struggling. But one day I went to a driving range and was going to hit some balls. And I was basically just, let's do something else. Yeah, just get your mind.

Just get away. Yeah, and I was hitting the ball terribly because I hadn't been playing golf. And there was a guy there who's won the club championship eight times, seven or eight times. And I knew him but didn't really know him. And he's like, you mean to help you? I mean, it was literally an act. He's a nice guy, yeah. act of mercy.

And so, he said, let's go play nine holes. So we did. And I got his phone number, and I thought, eh, he did help me.

Well, the next day, I'm back to doing, I think I was actually doing a podcast, and I get a text from another buddy, and he's like, hey, did you hear

about this guy dying? Well, it was the guy who I played nine holes with met the day before. I thought, and I mean, this guy was like health-wise,

and the way he looked. And I mean, I was like, what happened? I was so shocked, you know. And it was upsetting because I remember that night. This is the first time even here. I had no idea. Yeah. So I looked at this number and that I had just gotten this number.

I was like, do I delete this number? I was like, I'm not doing it. I said, there had to be a reason for that conversation that. So, but it was just, and I think with Deilo and my dad, It was just a weird thing. It's like I didn't have really time to be that upset about it because I'm like, well, my dad's at desk door here, you know. So that happened.

And I just went on. So now we get to about a week ago. And kind of the same scenario. I was real busy. I was going to play golf on Saturday. And I was so busy that we did podcast. And I did other things. And I wanted to play golf.

because I didn't want to embarrass myself in the Saturday match, you know. So I said, I'm going to go play nine holes. That was like 6.30. I didn't even know if I could play nine holes. And so I'll go up to the golf course. I was like, can I play nine holes? And they're like, there's no one here. Yeah, you can play.

And so I'm getting my cart, and I felt like I was being watched. There's just a feeling kind of coming out. Oh, look, well, there's a guy standing there who kind of like this first guy I met. I was familiar with. I knew he was really good at golf. And he was just standing in the parking lot. looking at me and I said hey what's going on and he said what are you fixing to do which I thought was a weird question I'm literally getting a golf cart you know I said I'm fixed to play nine holes

and he said can I play with you I thought that that moment I stopped and I thought because he looked kind of sad just and I thought this has got to be a god thing because nobody else is this guy's a good golfer where did he come from and And why is he wanting to play golf with me? Yeah. So I said, sure. And I thought, well, I'm not going to be playing golf because I don't know what this is about. But just, I think it was the Holy Spirit.

I thought there's something here. So as soon as he got in the cart and he said, you heard about me losing my best friend, huh? And I said, no, I hadn't heard about that. Because I wanted to say, I don't know who you are. I mean, I knew him. Yeah. I knew him. But you wouldn't know who his best friend.

No, I didn't know his best friend. Well, he knows. named the guy that I told you I played the nine holes with and I thought now this is weird yeah and uh so we got out there he said I hadn't been able to play since he said uh we've been playing golf together for 35 years and best friend we've won multiple tournaments you know he said I'm into a routine where I go to his grave site and he said then I come up here and I just sit in the parking lot and he's and what he does he teaches kids how to you know play golf yeah and uh But he said, I know you just lost your dad,

and I saw you walk across the parking lot, and I thought, well, maybe he can help me. And so it was an uncomfortable, weird conversation. And throughout the nine holes, which we wound up playing like seven because there were people in front of us when we went around them. And look, he parted every hole in Bertie, the last hole, which was nine.

But we talked about Jesus. We talked about life. And look, shockingly, I didn't say much. I just let him talk. The first shot was hard for him. I said, you all right? Because he kept, you standing over the ball. And I was like, he just literally could not make this.

So he did not play golf since the guy died. And the smartest thing I did, because finally I said, you got to get back on the horse here. Do it. You know, take a swing. And so he did. But at the end, well, I think the best thing I did is about five or six holes. I was actually playing pretty good,

but he said, do you want me to help you with that pitching shot? I was like, dude, that is my worst shot of my game. When I get 60 yards and in, I just, and he said, let me show you this. And so I did it, hit three or four, you know, and I said, that feels a lot better. I'm going to try that.

I appreciate it. But I noticed he came to life because that's his specialty, you know. So that broke the ice. Kid you not, we get to nine. knocks one in there a foot for a birdie and I hit his little pit shot to about five feet but I missed mine and the wind started blowing and I looked and there was a storm coming and I turned around and looked back in the fairway look at it was the most spectacular rainbow you have ever seen in your life and so I said his name and I said look over my shoulder and when he did I said and if you

need a sign I said I'm not saying God did that for us I said, but I think you reached out to me because you knew deep down, you need to get back on the horse and live life. And helping people play golf, it brings joy, you know. Yeah. And I'd already given a pretty good Jesus. And he was very, you know, that was not a problem. I mean, he talked about, you knew Jesus, but it's just like, I mean, he was screaming.

It wasn't like it was a faith crisis. He's just grieving. He was just grieving. He was upset. This was his best friend, you know. And I kind of explained there's a little difference because I told him, I was like when my dad died, I was actually relieved. I said, but I went through what you're going through this past duck season.

I said, because I've hunted with my dad for 50 years. Exactly. That it was rough. Just duck hunting, and I'd look down there and go to say something and he wasn't there. I mean, it was really difficult for me. So we talked about all that. And I'm trying to stay out of the details. I didn't tell him I was going to tell this story, but I thought, if you came to me and knew who I was,

you know, pretty much everything happens. But when he saw that rainbow, he just burst into tears, like, I think, in a good way. He needed to grieve, you know. And then we hugged, and then it kind of hit me. I thought, somebody rides by. They're like, here's two grown men standing on number nine green, in tears. I just thought. And so I got back.

That five-foot birdie puttudge business is, you know, now they're weeping. And I didn't know this was going to turn in. such a long story but it's so moved me because you know when i got in the truck i it just i was overcoming the motion and i thought this is what god does yeah that's good this this is what he does and i and i and so i'll go back home and missy's missy was like well how'd that go i said well let me sit out she was like i thought you just went to practice i said oh no it was way more than that and i talked her turned into a god moment and she was like i think god's in him in your life and i was like, oh, babe, I've already passed that point.

I was like, I was like, but you know what? I said, I think God's in him for me, you know, because it was probably the most I had talked about Phil in that way. I was like, you know, I kind of, I was, it was what we needed. But it made me think of the resurrection in John 11 and how we're like looking in the past and boy, I wish I'd have said this and I wish I'd have done that. So I got to tell the end of the story because this is the best part. So the next day, you know, I go play my god.

golf round. Hitting the ball terrible. Because now it's competition. We're playing by the rules. I've actually paid $20 to get involved in this, whatever they call this, skins game. So there's 30 people in it. The only way you can actually get your money back is if you win a hole that nobody else wins.

So it's like, you know, when I, actually when I handed the $20, I said, bye. Because it's all the best golfers at the club. but so on number six I wasn't I wasn't playing that good on number six I hit my drive down the middle shocker and it's a pretty short hole I was like 48 yards I think to the hole uphill and I said I'm going to try this little pitch shot it's the first time I had it out I hit that pitch shot it bounced in front of the pen hit the pen and went in for a two which you want that skin oh oh oh I do I Jay, old Jay's got paid. I played terrible, but guess what? The Eagle will get you paid in a huge skins game.

And so here's what's funny. When I get to number nine and I teed off, I had the same feeling that I was being what? I turned around. That dude was standing behind me. He wasn't in the game. But he was at the range, which is better than the parking lot. Right.

And I actually hit a good drive. And he's like, yep, you got it going. And I said, you're not going to believe this. I said, you remember that pitch shot you taught me? I said, I'll hold it on number six, my second shot. That dude was so excited. And I just thought, well, here, this is what happens, you know. You got back to doing what, you know, God gives us all gifts.

Golf is not mine, but it's his. And so I just thought it was a neat story. So two things in response. This is amazing story. One is you just described my entire golf career. because when I play golf, they call me the copperhead because a copperhead or just lay there and not do anything most of the time. For sometimes weeks out.

Weeks and never do anything, which was Al's golf game. But every once in a while, if you get too close to him, he'll strike you on the foot. And so they call me the cover head because I would make a shot like that about, you know, every few rounds. But the second more serious thing is I love what you did. it's great advice for people out there listening because you wonder what all do I need to say if someone approaches me in a moment but you you showed the best thing sometimes you just have to be have to listen let people talk some yeah and then that opens the door for what to say don't don't try to do the platitudes that people you've heard all your life I had no cheesy

I gave no cheesy slogans such good advice and look it wasn't that I planned that I actually told myself, I thought, I'm not qualified to have this conversation. Right. I thought that in my mind while he was talking. And then I thought, well, the Holy Spirit is called the counselor. I have the Holy Spirit. And you got two ears and you got one mouth. Yeah.

And I just, you know, I tried to do the best I could, you know. And I think God used it. It's that passage in James that says we should be quick to listen and slow to speak. and I think more than any other place that's valuable when people are hurting. But that wind up helping him, but it helped you, as you said, and in a weird way it even helped your golf game. You know, in a weird thing, I mean, I'm being real vulnerable here because I'm not a touchy-feely type of guy.

But I remember thinking, I thought, you know, I didn't know this guy? And now I love this guy. Absolutely. Y'all become a friend, your friends for a lifetime. I mean, you know, the man was broken. Yeah. He just broken. And, I mean, he lost his best friend.

And I thought, this guy is just, he's just letting it all out to a complete stranger. I mean, in an effort to just, he realized, I need, I got to do something. Exactly. Well, it is the John, what you see in John 11 of, you know, Jesus does, he does get emotional at the death of Lazarus, even though he knew he was going to raise him from the dead. Yeah, that's in the third act. That's right. And I just thought, man, how, but, you know, because I think sometimes that, like, we, I think wrongly as Christians say that we shouldn't mourn death. And, I mean, Phil said it.

You know, there's a viral clip, and I agree what he said to him. Jay said it on the interview last night. Well, he's using, he's getting that. I like your point where you're going. The verse says, First Eston is 413, we do not grieve like the rest of men who have no, hope. Well, to think about that statement, he didn't say you don't greet. That's right. He said, you don't agree like this. Exactly. Look, I can make that analogy and everything. I don't drink alcohol like the rest of men either. You have no hope. But I'll take an occasional,

you know, glass of wine or whatever. But I have to, every time I say that, that seems to be a sticking point with people. Because I've actually had 10 people tell me in a convenience store, I can't believe you sip that bourbon. I was like, But I said I hated it. I said he hated it. I said I hated it. That's what I'm saying. They're like, yeah, but you broke the cycle.

And you know what I said to the last person who told me that? I said, I knew there was going to be somebody like you that come out of the weeds, you know. I said, who needs a little more grace. I said that. Yeah. He's looking at it. I said, but the next time you take some NyQuil when you're dog sick, I'm going to say, I can trust me. There's some alcohol in there.

It is. Or vanilla extract. I knew you should have that to do it. Well, it hit me because I used to say, you know, I never took a drink of alcohol besides one little sip of whiskey when I was nine years old out of a trash pile because I lost a bet. But I used to say, there's, you know, never been a drop hit my lips. And somebody asked me, they said, have you ever taken an alcohol? And I was like, what's I got to do anything? He's like, it's got alcohol.

70% of it. I was like, it does? I mean, I didn't know. So that's what I'm saying. People with legalistic tendencies tend to be that way. Well, I want to give them a little rabbit hole, because we don't have much time left. But I want to introduce something

because I introduced the idea of Jesus being the firstborn from the dead. Have you all gone down that rabbit hole? Not specifically. I have. So, well, if you think about it, in the Old Testament, firstborn is all over the place. Correct. So, Al, you probably have a better explanation of the idea behind that.

Well, and a lot of it is because from the Jewish mindset, you don't read a lot about afterlife. I mean, there was a belief in the resurrection, but I'm not saying that wasn't there. But the idea was it was all about passing along heritage. And so the firstborn and a family, firstborn son, had a double responsibility to take care of the family once the patriarch was gone. so he got a double share of the inheritance. So that was the idea. He's supposed to make sure it could be. And it was all based on this kind of king idea that you pass on the royalty to the first end line.

What's fascinating about the Bible, and I don't know if y'all have studied this. I have, you know, maybe I should have tried that study first. But God seems to turn that on its head over and over, because what caused a lot of the problem, and all the wars was basically sibling rivalry. Think Kane and Abel. Well, which one did God, you know, like? He liked the younger one, not the older one. Same with Jacob and Esau.

Oh, you're going to go down a whole list, and this is called, think David, you know. I mean, here's, you know, here's that. You think, well, Jonathan's the one's going to get, oh, no, we're going down here with David at the end of the ladder of that line. And even Samuel, the man of God, looked at Elihu, the oldest son, and said, now, here's a king. Look at this guy.

And it was all a shadow of what Jesus would become in that he had a different kind of power. He didn't take that trying to keep that power and fight with other brothers. There's a lot of sibling rivalry going on. And that's why you introduced, think Philippians 2-5 in following, what Jesus has the firstborn,

because it's not only the phrase firstborn from the dead, but in Colossians, one says, he's the first born over creation. And I want to read that. Yeah, and while you're looking that up, I'll make this comment that it's interesting about Jesus because we're reading these Jesus, reading these spiritual connotations of him the firstborn of heaven, the father. And he was the first born in his family, remember, because Mary was very young.

But he always seemed illegitimate within his own family because he wasn't really the son of Joseph, which is very interesting. He was both firstborn as of the son of God, but he didn't feel like he was the firstborn as the son of man, which I think. And too, when you think about our own baptism, if our baptism is connection with his own death, burial, and resurrection, he was the firstborn in that capacity as well. So he's always, it's always the preeminence in the supremacy of Christ

that I think you're seeing with decided to be a person. Well, okay. You're going. We're tracking. We're tracking because. first born, I think, doesn't mean what you think it means. That's why I wanted to go through the history. When we think first born, we immediately think the first one born.

You're the oldest. But that's why I said, God kind of turned that on its head on who he's picking to pass down this line. Because it also means a status. And that's how Paul used it in Colossians. You know, the title of it is the supremacy of Christ. Well, that's a title. You know, he's supreme. He has the authority.

Just think of it like that. So this is Colossians 1 15 where it says, He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Well, we know Jesus wasn't the first born because Jesus is God. We've already read that in John 1. one through three that that would be very hard to understand which look by the way in previous

religious groups this was the big argument back in the day because they said oh but Jesus is not God he's first born there's a whole there's a whole group that believes that now well probably so and so they missed the point because John one one and two is pretty clear and so you say well what what what does that mean he's the firstborn overall creation I think I stumbled up on something that and this is all coming from in John 11 when he says I am the resurrection and the light so think of the word I am before Abraham was I am and think of the John I feel like we need to read John one and two before I read what I think I stumbled on is really good in the beginning was the word the word was with God and the word was God he was with God in the

beginning. All right. So then in verse 14, the word became flesh and made his dwelling. So, you know, when you think, I think most people when they see first born, they're thinking, oh, when he was born a Mary, well, how was he the first? There were people being born.

The reason I went down this road, and I'm going to stop here just to explain this, is because when you get to later passages, especially in Revelation, you get into Revelation 20, and it starts talking about there's a first resurrection,

It doesn't say a second resurrection, but it says they won't partake in the second death. And I'm not going to get into Revelation today, but we will. I'm introducing this. What happened is people took like what happened in John 11 and other places where other people were raised. They're like, why does it say Jesus was the firstborn from the dead? Because other people were raised before him. You see what I mean? So you think, oh, that's no big deal.

People have made whole doctrines over that. They have people being resurrected all through the course of time, you know, and developing doctrines on what they think the resurrection is, and it ends in there not being a bodily resurrection. So I hate to call those people out, but I don't know what else to do. And they even take the verse in 1st Corinthians 15 that talks about resurrection, baptized resurrection of the dead to prove a point that later disproves the point. I know a lot of you who are new in the faith, you may not realize all this stuff, but that's

why I'm painfully going over this because I'm saying when you read the title, he's the firstborn from among the dead. It probably means something different than you think. Because when I first thought that, I thought, well, yeah, he was the first one from the dead. But, well, Lazarus came back from the dead, you know? And there's other examples in the Bible. And some in the Old Testament as well. Yeah, so that's why I brought it up. But I wanted to have. handle this first born over the creation first what does that mean well i want i want to read first corinthians eight and this is an interesting passage and it goes in with the spiritual warfare study we did about the gods uh the psalm 82 yep and psalm 89 because look i have psalm 89 written down

here because i have i have this first born in the greek in the context of colosians one means preeminent special status authority and i have psalm 89 2 through 4 and 14 through 29 to prove that because it mentions the firstborn in the davidic line that jesus would come and he talks about having authority it's a beautiful passage in between all this sons of god and heavenly counsel stuff so you remember that study that we did so that's why i'm coming to 1 Corinthians 8 and this is this is fascinating i think he says now about food sacrifice to idols we know that we all possess knowledge so he's talking about a situation that developed in the corinthian church about is it right or wrong to eat this food that were sacrificed to idols because there's only one god

well how paul answers this i think has something fascinating to what we're talking about it says the man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. But the man who loves God is known by God. So then, watch what he says. So then about eating food sacrifice to idols, we know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one. So there's only one God. These celestial beings and, you know, fallen celestial beings who are deemed gods, he addressed them in the next verse, verse five. For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords that produce idols, is my point. Either they're fallen celestial beings or they're made up

gods by humans. Yet for us, now watch how this statement, this is an incredible statement, there is but one God, the father from whom all things came and for whom we live, and there is but one Lord Jesus Christ through whom all things came and through whom we live so you one see a connection with them from the beginning like John 1 1 through 2

and you see how they operated the word became flesh through Jesus he was the vehicle in love and so what was the result the result was all those passages that he kept saying, me and the Father won, me and the Father One, me and the Father One, me and the Father One, every chapter in John we've hit that.

Every one. Well, you know what it hit me? It hit me where when the verse says in Colossians 1 15, Christ is the image of God. Well, what does that sound like? If you go back and read Genesis 1-26, and just keep in mind all the verses we did about the son of man, God becoming human. Well, Genesis 1-26 says that God created man in his own image. Well, who's the image of God? Jesus. Jesus. Well, we're created in his image,

but Christ is the image of God. And so every time we read that verse, and I wrote this down, so I'd get it right, I want to read it. So you have Colossus 1, 15 compared to Genesis 1,27, with John 1, 23, and this First Corinthians 8 in mind. Is verses in? So here's what I put. Here's what I wrote down. Granted, it was about 2 o'clock in the morning, so I want to make sure I get this right. The point is, Jesus is the image of God, and the image humans were created to be.

And that's why I think when you think about that statement, we always, just use it as, well, if you want to get to know God, look at Jesus. But he's also the human that we should be. And you say, well, what was Jesus like? He was one with the father. What happened to every other human once they reach the age where they start making decisions? Well, they want to be their own God. Right.

You know, but Jesus showed us what we should be. So we get to experience what it means to be truly human as, God intended, and that's where Jesus comes in. It shows us who God is and what it means to be truly human in Jesus. And so I think it's a really good way to look at him being the firstborn of creation, because that's what we're supposed to be. And so then I think when you get to firstborn from the dead, it's the same concept. Even though other people were raised, most of them were, and I say most,

just because some of them I'm not really sure what happened. But I do think that God views all people as alive. So some of them, they die. And even now, like Phil, it's the same question we talked about on the last podcast. Well, is Phil good right now? Absolutely. You're like, well, has he been raised? And so I want to get into that next time.

His body hasn't come back, but he's good. So those are the few, when it talks about resurrection, you know, I'm not real clear on. But I think when it says he's the firstborn from the dead, it's showing that he is the preeminent. He is the ideal where other humans can live eternally. You see where I'm going with that? Yeah, I think it's a really good point. And I think it will help you understand what you just said. will help you frame out our understanding of salvation in a much broader term beyond just our justification

because what you just said I was thinking about that helps me understand concepts like predestination which is a super controversial. I was thinking the exact same thing. That's what I was saying. Let me read this first in Romans because we get the seven in the left. But for those whom he forek knew, he also predestined. He said, what did they predestined to do? What tells us?

To be conformed into the image of. his son in order that he might be the first born among many brothers. I had it on the list. It was coming to a theater near you. This was the conversation I just had with my granddaughter about predestination because she was presenting me the concept that she was being presented that individuals are predestined based on their own situation with God. I was like, no, you missed it there. That firstborn is in that text for a reason, Zach. And I noticed that, too last night. I had it down and a few others. And look, also, we're going to, you know, we're going to launch off from here into what this means in understanding the resurrection and who he is.

But I think you've got to get this point down. What does it mean for him to be the firstborn of the dead and what that implies? And I think you can relate it to the firstborn of creation. it's how God intended to get his family back. Because that's why I brought up all the sibling rivalry and all this. And what do we become? Sons and daughters of the Almighty. That's so good. All right.

So we have really opened a good package. But it's in the perfect context because we're in the context of life and death. So we'll pick it up from here next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating. and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click the little bell

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