Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1128 | Jase Claps Back at a Guy Who Tried to “Correct” His Sermon

Episode Date: July 17, 2025

Jase challenges the traditional view of Heaven’s golden streets and gets into a grocery store showdown with a Goliath fact-dropper. Zach shares the powerful story of a listener whose life was changed through the podcast and his baptism at Zach’s church. The guys reflect on Phil’s resurrection hope, the oyster review that scarred him for life, and how the Prophets, baptism symbolism, and the song of Moses all point to the true treasure of being planted in God’s presence through the resurrection of Christ. In this episode: Exodus 15, verses 11, 17–18; Romans 6, verses 3–10; Romans 8, verses 6–23; Hebrews 12, verses 22–24; 2 Kings 13, verse 21; John 10, verses 17–18; Revelation 5, verse 9; 1 Peter 3, verse 21; Acts 2, verses 22–24; 1 John 3, verse 2 —  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So welcome back to Unashamed. We're down here in Gulf Shores. Zach, you heard any good sermons lately? I did. My dad preached one yesterday that I thought was, man, I said, I told him after. So y'all rotate through and you're preaching, kind of like we do back on? Yeah, we got four guys that rotate through. We got one guy. that's kind of our paid guy who does about half of it, and then the rest of us kind of rotate through.

But dad preached on Exodus 15, coming out of the parting of the Red Sea, and it's basically the song of Moses. The Lord is a warrior. Yeah, and he preached on that. And I told him afterwards, I said, I got to tell you, you finally stuck to the text, and it was good.

He did not like that. He literally turned around and walked off. He said, you're such a butthole. And he turned around and walked off. I was like, I'm just telling you. It's better when you stick to the text, you know. The classic Dasher compliment. Yeah, it's a backhand.

Well, Jayce does it all the time. Jason is, well, I mean, I'm a little surprised. That was actually not horrible. That's Jason's compliment. I never said that. Thanks, Jace. I appreciate that, buddy. For everyone listening, I've never said that sentence in my life.

Yes, you have. That's not horrible? You would say something like, I'm surprised. That wasn't the worst thing I've ever heard, which is your way of saying. I like that. That was great. The way I was raised when you say, hey, that's not bad. That means it was really good. I know. It doesn't mean it was the greatest thing. No, I'm just interpreting for the people that if you ever run up on Jason, he says something like that. No, that's a compliment. Like, that is actually a raving endorsement. My dad had two categories, especially when it came to food. Not bad and not much. One of them means really good and one of them means really bad. So you figured that out. He was a victim of that.

There's that story that Ben tells of he went to get oysters. He said, our grandma, a granny, when she was living with my parents right next door to Philly Kay. She said, I want some oysters. I want some fried oysters. And so Phil drove all the way over to Captain Avery's and called him and said, hey, let me know when you're getting a fresh batch of oysters in. I'm going to send somebody to go there and get them.

And then I'm going to cook them for my mom, who was our grandmother. And so, I mean, it was a whole, like, half-day deal, sending somebody over there, getting the oysters and feed them. I mean, he did a whole thing, made her a fried oyster poboy that she took one bite, and she said, not much. and he was so mad because he'd spend half a day cultivating this cuisine for his mom and for her to respond yeah not not much not much i remember the verse i was thinking about when you brought up exodus 15 is when he says in verse 11 who among the gods is like you oh lord

remember when we talked about yeah from so 82 right yeah the celestial world so oh that's good well that's it that's why when you get to revelation we're back on revelation oh boy al i keep saying we're going to study that one day by the time we get finished i think we are studied it well it's like zach said that uh before we started when gordon preached a sermon he was talking about streets of gold and what was his take on the streets of gold probably the most it's top five at least top five misused phrases in the Bible. His main point was essentially we're viewing heaven as a place, which it is a place, but he said it's not, that's not the purpose. He said it's a person. Is it a place or is it a space?

What do you mean? I just ask you a question. It means what I said. Is it a place or is it a space? I don't know. I feel like there's a setup. Think about that. Let that simmer. It's not a trick question. I'm not, I'm not dipping my toe in that answer that until I know what you mean by that. I feel like I've been set up for something. Well, I mean, my point is God is not bound by place or space. Yeah. So really, we're trying to come up with a phrase. I want to setting you up a little bit. Because we use it as God's space. I've heard it used as that, you know, but it's a dimension where God is. And it's viewed as heaven. But in the beginning, he created heavens, the heavens and the earth.

Yeah. But it was kind of interlocked in that if you look at it where God is and where humans are, and because of the sin and death, separation occurs, however you want to define that. But the problem is then people started thinking, well, God's a million miles away. and that's not that's just not true. Yeah. Well, that's his point was like heaven is heaven because it's where the presence of God is. But we had that.

That's where I was going. It's the person. It was interesting though yesterday at church because I got an email from there's a, I don't know. I don't know who puts this email out. I don't even know what it is, and I should because I run all the production side of this. But there's an email that people from. the show, send stuff to, and I don't know what it is, but somebody sent an email into the show and they live in North Carolina, this young man, and I mean, it was, I mean, someone sent it to me,

and I literally was like, this is one of the most heartfelt emails I have read in a long time, and I won't get into it too deep, but it basically was like, made a mess in my life, kind of in a moment of crisis, had some stuff going to, down in his marriage, just a pattern of just habitual sin struggle that he's never really turned over to the Lord. And he basically said, I've been listening to this podcast for years. And finally, he said, I'm ready to turn myself into Jesus. And I want to be baptized and asked if I would baptize him. And I typically don't do that. I typically will try to find a local church. I think it's best to be baptized into a local church.

But his church, they stack up the baptism so they don't do them but like four times a year. And he's like, I'm ready to roll. So I sent word back. I said, you come to church Sunday. We're actually having baptisms on Sunday. And I will baptize you. And mainly because of the confession that he gave in the email was clearly he understood the gospel.

And he clearly understood that he wanted to die and to be born again. I mean, he got it. And he got here and he said, one of the things that I thought he said made me so proud to be a part of this podcast. I want to tell you guys this. He said I listened to y'all's podcast

for years and he said I would get convicted by the Holy Spirit through what y'all are saying and I would just get mad and turn it off and I'm not listening to that crap anymore. He said that podcast crap? Oh yeah. He may not say crap

but he was like I may be reinterpreting it. That's how I remember it. And he said but then I'd basically turn it back on. I think he said, like maybe the stories kind of brought him back in or whatever. He said, listen again. I can't listen. Turn it off. But he said this last time and some things that happened in his life, he was like, I'm tired of running. I'm tired of hiding. And I want to live for Jesus. I want to put this sinful life behind me. He said, I want it to die. I want it to be gone. I want to be a father to my son and the one that's in my wife's womb and I want to be the husband

that I've never been, and I want to repent, I want to turn from my wickedness, and I want to, I want to go with Jesus. I thought, man, that's powerful. And it kind of hit me, man. Like, that's, that's what we've been talking about is we're not just hanging on to some, like, you know, promise that we're going to get a long time from now. Like, Christ wants to enter into your life right now today. He wants you to experience deliverance right now.

He doesn't want, I mean, yes, it's going to be a full deliverance later, but he wants you, he does not want us to be held in bondage by sin like that. And it just hit me talking to this young man, beautiful, beautiful family. I thought this guy's life's going to be forever changed because of that decision that he made to submit to the Lordship of Christ right now in 2025. We hear those kind of stories a lot. I got a package down here from a man in Georgia. that he makes coffee.

And so he sent me some coffee. I got some of that, too. I got some of that coffee. Yeah. And he just said the nicest note about the impact dad had had on his life. And going back to happy, happy, happy, you know, he first read dad's story. And he's same, similar to what your guy said, that, you know, it just has been a concept for him. And it reminded me that you were talking about the Psalm of Moses.

And, you know, Paul uses that same. you know, thing that happened when he, when he's writing in 1st, Corinthians 10. And he uses the metaphor of them being baptized, you know, when they went through that sea, because he said, you know, the clouds on top of them, he got water on both sides. And so he compared it to that, this idea of newness, that they were coming out of slavery into the promises of God. Of course, a lot of those people didn't make it out of the desert, you know, because they couldn't give it up. They couldn't give up their old ways. And so then you had that second thing we talk about in Joshua, you know, another miraculous crossing.

But it is amazing how you see even across the spam of thousands of years of history, this idea of being delivered and being resurrected. So, you know, we've been talking a lot about the resurrection. But, you know, when you see Jesus talking about it, that conversation you have with Nicodemus and John 3, I mean, he was saying this literally is a new birth. Yeah. This is that opportunity to get it right here and now. And you're right. You don't have to wait until, quote, unquote, heaven. You can understand so much of it here,

which then prepares you for that final journey when you cross over to wait that resurrection, which is what we call us, why we call it the Great Crossover, because that's all this happening there is, you know, eternity. Well, they crossed over in Exodus 15. They just crossed over from the Red Sea, right? And so I'd preach last one. week on what that man, and I made a direct correlation to baptism, you know, and, and then when dad preached, one of the things you said, you think about, because think about what we're saying

here in this podcast, we hit on it a lot, but it's not, Jayce talks about it all the time about our understanding of grace, he did that in the previous podcast, like, it's not just being forgiven from something, like you're being delivered into something, and so listen to the language of the song of Moses here. He says, you have guided them by your show. strength to your holy abode. What does that mean? He's guiding them out of slavery into his abode, into his house, into where he lives, into where his presence is. And so the crux of, I would say, the entire Exodus story, and maybe the entire Bible could be summed up in Exodus 15, verse 17 and 18, which says this, you will bring them and plant them on your own mountain

the place of the Lord which you have made for your abode, for your house, for you to live in, for your dwelling place. That's the promise. And then you see that language. Think about that mountain. Think about the mountain in Isaiah chapter 2 where all the nations are coming up to worship God on this mountain. That's where God lives. He lives on this mountain. He lives on Zion. He lives there and he's planting his people in the place where he lives according to Exodus chapter 15 verse 7. and it says you have, which you have made for your abode, the sanctuary, oh Lord, which your hands have established, the Lord will reign forever and ever. And so when you read Exodus 15, it's this promise that God's going to take his people and he's going to bring them into his house. And so if you

think about the whole Exodus story, the book of Exodus is only, it's not the whole story of Exodus. is not the whole story of Israel from escaping Egypt going into the promised land. Actually, the book of Exodus is only about the establishment of the tabernacle and the building of the first kind of that mobile temple structure that looked a whole lot like the Garden of Eden and then what, you know, David or Solomon would later build in First King 6. But the whole point of it is that God is building a house and God is going to make a his home with people and he's going to have his people live in his house with him. That's the picture.

Yeah, and I love the Hebrew writer after Hebrews 11 and mentioning all these people from the area you're talking about, Zach, we call it the Faith Hall of Fame, all those people that believed in him. When he gets over to chapter 12, I love this passage. It says just what you just said. The Hebrew writer says it, but you have come to Mount Zion to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels and joyful assembly,

to the church of the firstborn whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel. I love that picture of the person of God in the presence of God, all rolled into one. I mean, that's the power of what this whole thing is about. And no matter where you study in the scriptures,

you're always going to come back to that idea of presence, to the space, Jase, that you were talking about. Who is God? So many things to correct here. First of all, you just read that the church of the what? Firstborn. Firstborn. Remember the little firstborn rabbit hole we went down?

Jesus is the firstborn of creation. first born of the dead so i wanted to say i brought that streets of gold up and uh when when zach said you know he'd rather them be baptized into a church which i'm not necessarily disagreeing with that but i'm thinking roman six that you're baptized into christ himself no no i agree with that i don't i know i know you Yeah, I was, no, I don't think you're baptized into a church. I would 100% agree. I just think it's, I was just saying, I would prefer someone to be baptized, meaning like, not into the church, but amongst their church community so that you have those, those witnesses, if you can.

I don't disagree with that, but I was just clarifying. Because what I'm going to read, so I read Revelation 20 while back in a different podcast, talking about the first resurrection, which are those in Christ, second resurrection, with are those who are not in Christ, ends well for those in Christ, does not end so well. But the next chapter, Revelation 21, you know, it's another vision, and most people take this literal, and what we said about Revelation, that's a danger. It's an image revealing a truth. And so this image is you see a new heaven and a new earth, just think new environment, and you see this holy city, the new Jerusalem.

Now, you just read that in Hebrews 12. Yep. Well, who is the new Jerusalem? Who is the new Jerusalem? I say we are the new Jerusalem. Yeah, people who are in Christ, coming down out of heaven, prepared as a bribe, beautifully dressed. He goes on to say in verse 9 in the second part of it. It says, come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the lamb.

Well, who's that? That's a church. Yeah. So, and he's going to give you an image of what that looks like, and here's the mountain, and he carried me away in the spirit to a mountain, great and high, and show me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down. of heaven from God. Do we all agree, based on what we've read here, that that is the church of the firstborn? Well, when you look at it, he starts describing walls because it's imagery and all these

precious stones. And then he gets to verse 21. And he said, the 12 gates were 12 pearls, each made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was a pure goal. So it takes. It takes a me back to the first time I heard a sermon about heaven has streets of gold. And it was a guy preaching very passionately. He was like, heaven is expensive. Streets of gold, pearly gates. And then he had Peter at the gate, which is another misunderstood concept. Because when Peter said in response to Jesus, who do you say I am, Matthew 16?

you're the Christ, Son of living God. And on that rock, I will build my church. And the gates of Hades or hell shall not withstand it. And so that church, that gate opened a few chapters later. It sure, yeah. And Peter wasn't the rock it was built on. It was the confession of Peter. That was the rock.

Peter is not the rock. It's the confession. symbolizes the rock, but he's not the rock. Speaking of weird arguments about the rock, so I'm in the grocery store. I'm telling you, it just hit me. Guy comes up to him. He's like, yeah, I enjoyed your podcast about, you know,

David, and he picked up the stone, and he slayed the giant, you know, overcoming the powers and all that. He's like, but he got five stones. He said, you should have said because Goliath had four brothers. And I'm like, okay, I guess I wasn't sure that was in the Bible, but I was like, it's very possible. Is that in the Bible? I've never heard that before. Yeah, well, he said that.

So I immediately, you know, kind of, I was kidding, but not really, said, well, but the rock represented the rock. same rock that Peter you know that laid the foundation you know who the rock of the church is the cornerstone oh yeah

if your rock is Jesus you're gonna win yeah well that's a great point because think about the and those Daniel passages the rock the stone that came out of out of the mountain and then the Jews

stumbled over the stumbling rock or the stumbling stone so that's actually Yeah. I even think of Jacob's ladder. Where did he lay his head after this wrestling with God? And we see this temple and heaven and earth being united and angels descending. And it's called Bethel, the house of God. Where did he decide to lay his head on and then leave it there?

Yeah, a rock. You think that's random? And then you read in 1st Peter, we're living stones built on the foundation, the cornerstone. So I just wanted to bring that up. And number two, when you brought up baptism and being baptized into Christ, and here we are in John 11, you know, what does this have to do with anything? A thought hit me, which is, you know, Jesus makes the cross special because of who was on the cross. I made that point many times. And who came out from the dead was different from everybody else that had come from the dead.

And which, look, when you read in the Old Testament, and this sets up where we're at John 11, which, this famous statement that Jesus is fixed to say. And you'll read the whole section now, is I'm the resurrection in the life. You know what I found fascinating? Just looking at other people who were raised, he had Elijah. Remember Elijah trained Elijah.

And he did all kind of miracles, and they were kind of in cahoots. You know, if you just summed it up. You know, Elijah, he didn't die. He was just whirlwind up into how. heaven and chariot of fire yeah and then here's elisha who actually brought people back from the dead and i thought one of the craziest stories that i ran across about this i don't know if you've read this lately but in second corinthians 1321 and it there's a whole another story going on

and all of a sudden it says elisha died and a skirmish broke out right after he died And some guys were going to bury a guy who had died. And they looked up and a raiding party was coming toward them. You can read this. Second King's 13. So here comes a raiding party. And they're at a funeral. They're just think about it.

Put yourself there. You're at a funeral. There's people, you know, they're upset. And they're grieving. And it's a gathering. And all of a sudden, here comes a raiding party. Well, funeral over because you can. could have a lot of funerals if you don't get out of the way. So instead of them burying this

fellow, they just put him in the tomb where Elijah was buried. And when his dead body touched the bones of Elijah, he came back to life. That's power. Ooh. Now that's, look, I read that last night and it really stopped me in my tracks and because I thought you know we always think when somebody dies well that's all that well here's a guy

a man of faith prophet of God who obviously had had God's special attention because God was doing miracles through him and by raising other people from the dead and here's a dead guy who you know you're talking like catching a break what a movie this

would make, you know. And what I like about it is, you're like, oh, I'm going to read that story. It's two verses. It doesn't elaborate. It just, I just love how the Bible throws in things like that. But, yeah, that happened. Now, unfortunately, for him, he died later. But I'm sure somebody probably said, maybe we need to look in who Elisha was and figure out however he was because his dead body is literally still affecting people in powerful ways. Yeah, his dead body is giving life to other bodies. That's pretty pretty bad. And I think it's a foreshadowing.

Read that. I keep saying St. Corinthians. Second Kings, 13, 21. So my point is, is I wanted to get to Romans 6. Well, let me say this before you do. All right, go. Goliath, I think, did have four brothers. Okay. Do you look that up?

Yeah, 2 Samuel 21, 15 through 22, and then First Chronicles 20, verse 4 and 8. And ironically, you know who killed them all? Who? David. Yeah. He killed them all. So he got them all.

Yeah, he got them all. Well, my whole point was, I think the fellow in the grocery store, he was missing my point. And it's kind of like, I think the Jewish leaders are missing the point of Jesus when he raised Lazarus. from the dead. Your response shouldn't be in the context of David. Oh, send his brothers.

He just killed the greatest warrior of their time who's transcended thousands of years. We're still talking about a giant with a rock. You know, he's got his armor. Come on. I'm like, if you can do that, don't mess with him. There's some super-nostic. force on his side. And they're doing the same thing with Jesus.

Their immediate response is, well, we need to kill him. That wouldn't make sense in every battle of the world, except if someone said, I'll tell you what, we're going to try. We're going to try this. We're going to try a maneuver. I got to tackle, this is a great war tactic.

We're going to bring a guy back from the dead. Well, you can pull that off. You're now in charge of the war. world. Your response shouldn't be, oh, we need to kill him. It doesn't make sense to me. And then it leads to wanting to kill Lazarus. But I want to say all that to say this. What is the difference in Jesus coming back from the dead and every other occurrence in the Bible? I mean, I came up with that Second Kings 13, just to land, and of all places, in the context of the context of the of baptism, which I think I'm going to make a point about this. But I want to read 9, 6, 8 through 10.

So it's Roman 6, 8. It says, now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. But I want you to focus on 9 because it's not that we believe in the resurrection. It's who was raised is what makes this special. verse 9 is very very powerful for we know that since christ was raised from the dead he cannot die again well now we have a difference here he cannot die again death death itself the power of death and it is a power that the evil one uses but it's coming to all, 99.99.9999,99, 9,99, except Jesus. Death no longer has mastery over him. The death he died, he died to sin once for all, but the life he lives, he lives to God. I've already made the connection

about that sin and death in 1st Corinthians 15. But that's what separates everything. So here's what I wanted to say, because that is coming off the hills of baptism where he says, what shall we say then? shall we go on sinning so that grace be increased. By no means we died to sin, how can we live in any longer? Don't you know that all of us who were baptized? Here's the key phrase, into Christ Jesus. It made me think about the comparison of John 10 and 11, where Jesus said, I give my life.

Nobody takes it from me. And people have the same argument of baptism. They're like, hey, do you think we have to? And I'm going to what you're baptized into, which is Jesus. I think it's the same response that Jesus had. He chose to do this. He chose to trust God in death so that God would raise him up. And I think we do the same thing in baptism.

It's not whether you have to or you're making it some requirement or I think that is the visual image that you should be thinking about. I'm going to trust God and I'm going to die. just like the Red Sea Cross now. It's one thing to say, oh, yeah, they knew God was going to rescue them. Pretty hard to jump in the middle of a sea. What's interesting about that is that,

because I preached on this last week, and I'm really glad that you corrected me, even though you weren't really correcting me because I agree with you, but I did. Well, I was. I was just being nice about it. Well, no, I mean, I agree with you, though. You corrected what I said, but not necessarily what I believe

because I did say baptized in a church, but I actually said in my sermon. I was like, if you look at what's happening in the Exodus story, there's a whole lot in this, but even like I got into this whole idea of God hardening favor of his heart, which is a whole controversial thing around that. But if you read it in its context, there's a reason why God was doing all that. And it's very, very clear in the book of Exodus that God has an intention. He says that Exodus 6 that I did not tell, he's talking to Moses.

He said, I didn't tell anybody else my name. He said, when I appear to your foretuce, he said, forefathers, Abraham, Genesis chapter 12, Isaac, his son, Jacob, his grandson. He said, when I appeared to those guys, he said, I did not tell them my name. I appeared to them as God Almighty. He said, to you, I'm actually telling you my name. I've never done that before. You're the first one that knows my name. My name's Yahweh. I am what I am. I am that I am. Exodus chapter 3. You know my name. And so the intention of God in the entire Exodus story, one of the main intentions of God is to make his name known,

and he says, I want my name not just to be known to you, but I want you to take my name, and I want it to be known throughout the entire earth. And so part of the picture of what God's doing here is he's taking his name, Yahweh, and it's spreading across all the globe, and the Gentiles one day will also know the name of God. And so when they go through that Red Sea moment,

that's a picture. It's a prototype of baptism, because they go through water, They're actually saved through water. They go through the water to find salvation. And all of their problems, their sin, which would be Pharaoh and the Egyptians, get swallowed up in the water. That's a metaphor of us.

Then you got Joshua parting of the Jordan River. Same thing. They enter into the promise, and they go through the water. Then you got Noah. They go through the water to find salvation. So there's this idea, continue throughout scripture. You're going through the water. But when you get to the New Testament,

where all this lines up is you go through the water, but when you're baptized in the New Testament, you're not baptized into a church. You're not baptized into a movement. You're not baptized into an idea. No, you're actually baptized into what? A name. The person.

You're baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Of a person. And so the name of God, Yahweh, Jesus is Yahweh. He's the Word of Yawah. He has a name. His name is Jesus. So now we're baptized into a name, into a person, which is why what he says in 2nd Peter, when he talks about baptism, he says it's not the water. Like you get, don't get hung up on the water part. It is the water. It's part of it. It's not the water doesn't make you clean. He says it's not the removal of dirt from the flesh. What is it then? It's an appeal or a pledge of of a good conscience to God, toward God. But my conscience isn't good towards God. So how do I pledge a conscience that I don't have?

That's why I like the word appeal better, because as me coming to God said, my conscience is not clean God because I know what I've done. And I need it clean. Well, how are you going to do that? Well, oh, we'll do that by connecting you with the resurrection of Christ. It saves you, Peter says, by what? The resurrection of the Christ.

The resurrection of the Christ. I had this written down in the notes. I mean, I was headed there. Because I think when you think, oh, it all stopped at the cross, that's why people don't understand baptism. It's about the resurrection. Yes. You're trusting the Father.

Because think about everything Jesus did, and you don't notice this unless you read the book of John verse by verse. It's all about vindication on him being here from the Father. father and only doing what the father has planned. He's trusting the father. Well, what's humans' problems? Why do we get into, why do we choose sin? Well, we're not trusting the father. That's why he did it perfectly, which is amazing. And, Chase, you know, the crux point, you look at Matthew 3, when Jesus went to John in the desert and said, you need to baptize me and John didn't want to do it. He said, well, I mean, you're way better than me, you know.

I mean, he recognized, you know, who Jesus was in that moment. And Jesus says, we're doing this to fulfill righteousness. And you know what happens when he comes out of the Waters Act? The voice of Yahweh says, this is my son. Yeah, good point. Yeah. You know, it's actually kind of crazy to think about it. But, Jace, can you imagine if we just, if we really, if we really, like, pushed out the logic of, of how we typically talk about baptism as being only about the cross, then here's the picture of baptism. You die in the watery grave of baptism and, well, you just die. Well, that's not the full picture, though. Like, it is a death, it is a funeral. Like, that is partly true, right? When we bury someone in baptism, yeah, we do bury the old

man, but it's also a birth. And so the resurrection is the resurrection of Christ matters because not only are we buried with Christ was Romans 6.8, we're also raised with Christ to do what? To live a new life, to be free from the bondage of sin, to live with him, to have the, to abode

with Christ to use that song of Moses language. That's why I keep bringing up this John, Tim. Maybe I should read it in verse 18. where Jesus said, no one takes it from me. You just said, the reason my father loves me is 17, 10, 17, 18. The reason my father loves me is that I lay down my life, only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord.

I have authority to lay it down, an authority to take it up again. This command I receive from my father. And I think when you read Roman 6 and it says, we're baptized into Christ Jesus, we were therefore buried with him into death in order that just as Christ was raised from the death through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Then it gets into what I read about, he can never die again. Death no longer has this mastery over it. I mean, when you put all that together, I mean, you should be running. I mean like oh I get to do this and I think that's that's powerful and then when I think you get to Romans 8

which is only two chapters later he then explains it furthermore all in the mind of the resurrection because he says Romans 8 and verse 6 listen to this the mind of sinful man is death just take that statement The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the spirit is life and peace.

The sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those who are controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. That's why we're fixed to read all these things when it says they have ears and don't understand, and they have hearts, they can't see, they're in darkness, what's the problem? They don't want to see. They have their own view of God, and it's not Jesus at the center. And then it says, you, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature, but by the spirit.

If the spirit of God lives in you. Well, when do you get the spirit? That's a good question. And if anyone does not have the spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body's dead because of sin, yet your spirit is a life. alive because of righteousness. And then of all the places that he goes, he goes down to this, this back to the slavery, the same picture y'all are talking about in Exodus and Pharaoh.

Look what he says. It says in verse 13, for you, if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die. But if the spirit, you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. because those who are led by the spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear. Well, immediately, where do you go back and think? The liberation that occurred in the book of Exodus. Yeah.

But this is a better liberation. Yeah. This is not just to be freed from some earthly force in Egypt. This is from death itself. That's why I read the Roman 6. because they went back to it. I mean, think about the Israelites. Even after they went through the Red Sea,

the future is not bright. You know what I'm saying? Well, exactly. So I want to get to verse 23. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the spirit. First fruit, Jesus was the first fruits of the resurrection. He poured out his spirit.

And then we became, we have the first fruits of the spirit. we grown inwardly, look, as we eagerly, as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. So it's all tied into the resurrection now and later. We have God's spirit because we are participating in Christ. We've become Christ through our death, our burial, and resurrection. And one day we will have the redemption of the redemption of. of our body. For in this hope, we were saved. Of course, then it goes on to say, verse 29, for those God for new, he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his son, that he might be the firstborn among the brothers. I mean, I think when you put all those

things together, you see, one, the problem with these people saying the resurrection's already taken place. Because I'm looking at a picture of Jesus' resurrected body. Sure he raised Lazarus, but that was a sign. That was a miracle. He died later. But when Jesus came back, what came back?

They go in and they believed in what they didn't see, which was his body. Where was the body? It wasn't there. In chapter one, it starts off, when Jesus' first words, come and see.

well then Mary at the tomb said come and see I can't find his body and then it says they believed based on what they saw but it's what they didn't see that's what they saw they didn't see the body yeah and they're like the clothes are wrapped up and how you made a point uh I think you were going to make a point in the notes about the difference in Lazarus's death and resurrection in Jesus what were those you yeah so it was like One was four days and one was three. And I think there's some reasoning for that because the Jewish people believe that your spirit hug around for maybe up to three days to make sure you were really dead. And this isn't in the Bible.

This was just anecdotally what was believed. So, you know, that may be one of the reasons why Jesus delayed. But of course, Jesus's was three days. And he came back. one's temporary, one's eternal, one's flesh and blood mentioned, you know, in the text, and one's flesh and bone, which was interesting the way that Luke describes Jesus when he came back. And then also I was thinking the, you know, when Lazarus came out of the tomb, he's all wrapped up like a mummy, you know, and they're like, Jesus like, get the, get all those grave

clothes off, you know, because they wrap you up and all these spices. And I mean, you know, he's wearing a suit that probably weighed 100 pounds. worth those stuff on him. But when Jesus, to your point, all it was in his tomb was a neatly folded burial cloth. Yeah. And he was gone. The body was out of there, which, you know, and that's the difference, you know, for any of us. Jay's, it's interesting because you and I, it hit me when we were at, we got the honor to speak at, at dad's, you know, homegoing.

I guess you'd call our crossover. And it just, we both, we all kind of realize that we all mentioned that that we were in the same space, the same spot that 50 years earlier, we were standing there in front of a baptistery that's not even there anymore and watched him, you know, totally surrender himself to God when he was, you know, 29 years old. Now 79 years old, he, that same body is laying in a box. 20 feet away from where he died and was resurrected in newness and righteousness. And so, I mean, I don't know about you, but I left there feeling full of hope and full of renewed life. That, man, when that resurrection happens, when that final crossover happens, that's going to be a great day. Exactly. Well, I wanted to go through that Romans 8 because when we started off with Exodus, the song of Moses. But when you get to Revelation 5, here we go again,

that you get to, and this is all talking about the lamb, chapter 5, the lamb, the lamb. He's seeing this vision of the lamb. We all know who the lamb is in heaven. But what I love is in verse 9, as they're looking at this lamb looking as if he had been slain, but he's back. It says they sang a new song.

Jesus, the song to Jesus is better than the song of Moses. Yeah, they sang a song to the lamb. They did. Worthy as the lamb. Worthy is the lamb. It says worthy, but it also says for he purchased. There's your liberation, which is their word for, you know. When you see that, they were bought at a price.

And their day in wartime and all that, you could be a prisoner just because you lost a war or whatever. made you a slave and you know liberation is what god pulled off getting them out from under you know pharaoh which they don't even use the pharaoh as a name because it was a it was a legacy of powers that set themselves up as the authority of god god's like no there's only one true authority and i've given you this i've given you this ability which they were supposed to be doing it in in honor of god it was the whole reason god came but after he purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation. That's why it's not.

When we say, you know, people, places and things, what matters in the Bible are people and God. Where are we going to be? And that's why I did the whole bit on the streets of gold. What you should be, the picture God is giving you a revelation is you get up in the morning because of what Jesus did for you. And you're like, I'm a street of. of gold. Not I'm walking on one. I am the street of gold with jewels and I'm expensive. And you know, you're getting to Jesus purchasing you is why you're expensive. I mean,

you see where you did that? Remember you did the thing about the light, the pure light that shines through the stones? Well, I thought that would do it, but evidently not. You know, I mean, we're still waiting to go on some street of gold. I mean, I'm a treasure hunter. I'd love to uncover a street of gold. Well, oh, why are we going to day? But it's way better for me to realize God has made me a street of gold. Well, I love that you brought that up.

Dad, that's what Dad, he ended with just what you ended with there, that there's a better song than the Song of Moses. And it's the one they end up singing, that we all end up singing at the end. And it's the song of the Lamb. It's the song of victory. It's a song of Jesus.

And I mean, that's, I mean, that's, that's the hope right there is what, is what you just said. Well, I know we're going to have to have a part three on this resurrection because we're almost out of time. But I was just going to go ahead and hit Peter at the gate. Yeah. The gate, he unlocked the gate in Acts 2.

And he started talking about Jesus of Nazareth in verse 22. And he said, look, he was a man accredited by God. And you go back to Acts 1, when Jesus went to the right hand, remember the clouds were up there, it said, this same Jesus, whom you. you've seen. I'm making a big point of this because it's the same one that ate fish, that hugged Mary, that appeared to the disciples. He had a new body. There was no body. The resurrection hasn't occurred. Jesus's resurrection has, and the implications,

especially from 1st John 3, that when we see him, when he appears, we will be like him. So in our version. But when Peter preaches that sermon, in verse 23, it says, man was handed over to you by God's set purpose. Verse 24, God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was not possible for death to keep its hold on him. That's why he's different.

That's why that moment is salvation in its purest form, sin and death, and the fact that he's still alive right now. representing us. So that's where the gate was unlocked at the pearly gates, and that was the rock that the church was built on. I love it. We are out of time, but we will pick it up.

The resurrection goes on. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube, and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.