Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1129 | Willie Mistaken for Bigfoot by Jase’s Grandkids & Love Is God’s Greatest Power

Episode Date: July 18, 2025

Jase is running on fumes after a week of wrangling grandkids who get freaked out just by the sight of Uncle Willie. Zach and Al are willing to humor Jase's claims that we’ve all missed the boat on John 11 after a revelation during a late-night Bible study session. The guys explore Psalm 136 and whether love is not just one attribute of God, but the very reason behind His power, justice, and mercy. Plus, Jase takes a page from Phil’s book when dealing with distracted teens during his lesson on Jesus. In this episode: John 11; John 3, verse 16; John 3, verses 31–35; Psalm 136; 1 Corinthians 13; 1 John 3, verse 16; 1 John 4, verses 7–18; Ephesians 1, verses 3–5; Micah 7, verse 18; Jeremiah 3, verse 12 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? All right, Maddie. I think I'm ready to get this ship going. Go it. Let's start steering this ship. I feel like we need a sound effect. You know how when the ship leaves you got...

Foghorn? Maddie, put that in. We need foghorn. Foghorn. The ship is now... Pulling away from the dock. Welcome back to Unashamed. We've been having quite the pre-podcast conversation with Jace

because Jace has not been sleeping apparently. No. And so I don't know that he's wired together by caffeine and whatever. But he's in rare form. He is in rare form. And the cruise ship leaving the dock or whatever. He came in hot, wanting confrontation. He's already told me that I've missed the boat.

on John 11. I mean, we missed it. No, we all missed it. Hey, we're in the boat together. We,

they say, you know, there's a, there's a saying in our family that all ships rise together because we got, our family got so big

and God gave us this opportunity as a platform. He put us on TV despite me and my dad saying this will never work. Mark my words. I was actually the amen guy. Yeah.

Phil was like, this will, never work. I was like, amen. If only you said, well, well, but he's given this opportunity. But on this case, yep, we missed it. And it's, but we found it last night. So, and I'm going to. Well, first of all, you know what I'm even going to say.

We have no idea, but we're weighted with bated breath. Well, I made a line that caused humor. Yeah, I'm going to tell you, because my wife has become an expert in creating in an atmosphere where difficulty thrives. I so wish she was here. And you got to remember, this is my, we're one. This is me. Me and her are one.

We're 34 years into this. Creates an atmosphere where difficulties flourish. Yeah. I'm going to write that down. Write it down. I don't know. I've never heard it before, but it popped into my brain. I'm going to use it in marriage counseling.

Because this week, because one member of our, what are we, what are the people all together in a ship? What do they call that? Sailors. One of the three sailors, which is us, I'm talking, we're now sailors because the ship's pulling out here. The ship's pulling out. Yeah, and we miss something in John 11, and we, a lot of people probably are like, this is

going to slow. You're too bogged down. all of a sudden, we missed the forest for the trees in John 11. And so we're going to get into that today. If y'all would divulge me, if you disagree with me at the end of this, you can say, okay. But in the meantime, one of our sailors, I don't know which one of you, they have to have a week off because they're going somewhere or something. So every time we have that happen, we have to do an extra day of podcasts during the week.

So it goes from... Because we love our sailors so much, don't we that? Yeah, so we do four podcasts a week. I think it was interesting. This is how the sausage is being made. So this week we're doing six. And I had my second trip to the great state of Arkansas and spoke to the Bible school.

I don't know what they... What would you call them? Bible school. They're thinking about going to the Bible school. You sense like a camp for potential preachers. Yeah, I think that's what it is. And the first round was last week, you know, and I thought it was fantastic. I mean, because my philosophy is to gauge the audience.

It's only about three dozen of them. And so I asked questions. They give answers. And I thought that first bunch, I thought, okay. Yeah, I mean, because the questions that I was asking were just, you know, basic human questions. How did you get on the earth? what are you doing here and you know what's next how are you how are you leaving or what happens after did you get this style from jesus and all the questions he asked yeah that's that's

that's uh that's my ministry you know it's i'm impressed i call it doing jesus stuff yeah and so uh and i ask another question i was like when you close your eyes and picture god what do you see well the first first round awesome answers because they pretty much got it right off the bat. It was some version of a 30-year-old Jewish carpenter. I'm like, yes. Because think about it, if we didn't have Jesus, would we really know what God is like?

Mm-hmm. It's true. Think about that. That's very profound, I think. But anyway, this round, the answers that they gave, it was they were uh thinking of the word well i'll say what i said they they i went around because they kept giving me answers and i was like anybody else anybody else because they were strange answers and i said well that was embarrassing and they were looking kind of bewildered

and i was like oh i'm not embarrassed for you that that is how you're summing up life and you you're part of it and your vision of God. I mean, it was embarrassing. Oh, my goodness. So I was like, but the good news is now I know why I'm here. And so it was just way more intensity. And there was a couple guys on their cell phones, you know, had none of that the whole time. And it took probably 30 minutes for them to put that cell phone out because I kept looking at them.

And I'm like, are you coming up with a better idea? I went Phil style on that than what I'm giving which everybody's looking like who's he talking to? I was looking at them two guys on their cell phones I was like are you coming up with a better I'd raise my voice

well then they would look up and they'd look at me and say are you coming up with something better on that box than what I'm giving you about life and finally how'd they receive that well they went back to their phone

for the first 30 minutes. And finally, I just kept raising the intensity, raising the bar. And they finally put it down. I thought, well, we've connected. They were probably watching cat videos or something. Well, I just, boy, you're talking about annoying. But anyway, so the reason I said about the difficulty

is because you have all these things going on. And then Missy, which is beautiful, but it's difficult. She's like, oh, hey. by the way, I decided to take all the grandkids and they're going to stay with us this week. Well, let's throw that into the mix. You know, day one was exciting, you know, day two is I miss my mommy. You know, day three, when are we leaving? You know, it's been that kind of train.

And we've just done various adventures and all that. But it's very difficult to sleep with all that going on or steady. prepare. So that's what I meant by the atmosphere of difficulty, but good difficulty. Just because it's difficult doesn't mean it's not great, but it's filled with distractions. And it's hard to take a nap is what I'm getting out. Well, Jay, I want to just say on the record that thank you for, you know, diplomatically articulating my everyday life. Yeah. Because I never realized what Lisa was doing, but you have nailed it, my friend. it is creating scenarios where there are difficulties.

They flourish. That's every day of my life. I mean, because last night when she finally put on the bed and she came down, because usually I take a nap because I don't sleep at night much, I take a nap every day. Well, we're getting on to the later part of the week here. There's been no naps. No.

Because, you know, we have a handoff system because we have little man that we get, you know, frequently and often. And we just have a routine where it's like I can tell when it's time for me to take over and take them on an adventure. So we go all over, you know, the neighborhood and we do various things. And yesterday I took them fishing. We went to various playgrounds. And, you know, we just, we had an adventure. And so we saw Uncle Willie, which, you know, the little, little David, he was terrified because I was like, he looks like big.

foot, you know, to a kid. And they're like, I said, yeah, I know what you're thinking. Because he was a, oh, I said, you think we found big foot? I was like, but it's actually my brother. It's Willie. But it's not just that. It's kind of new people because he acted like that with me the first two times. But then once he warmed up to me, we were, we were.

Yeah, well, he never warmed up to Willie. I was like, we're on his property. I was like, you need to be nicer, David. We're on his property. these fish he thinks they're his you know they are so we're catching them oh it's funny it's good times so yeah that was kind of where we started so you discovered in your now whatever state you're in with the constant difficulties and you're not sleeping much and apparently you stayed up into the wee hours of the night and you have you have

Zach and I this morning, before we started, that we missed something crucial in our five podcasts of John 11, as we're getting near the end of it finally, that we miss something crucial or vital. We, myself included. The sailors. The sailors. It's all together. So what I did, you know, because what we do, Zach, is, you know, we tend to categorize

things and try to sum it up. Yeah. We do that. But, you know, I just actually did something. that's, you know, simple yet was revealing. I just said, let me just read it again. The actual Bible. Yeah.

And so when I read John 11, I thought, I think it came from me, you remember when we talked about why Jesus wept? Yeah. Because you don't really know. We just have all these theories. And I think the theories are probably accurate. You know, the question is, why is Jesus crying when he knew he was fixed to raise him up?

And had actually even said it already. Like he's been, yeah, saying it. It is a strange. It's an odd thing. So people, you know, say, oh, I know what it is, you know, and they say whatever. But, you know, we really don't know. But I think just me thinking about why did he wait two days? You know, they're like the one who you.

love is sick. Well, that should have been the first clue. But, you know, I've said many times when you read the book of John, there's three aspects of God, kind of like his DNA. And they all start with the letter L. Do you remember what those are? Love, life, and light. Yep.

Well, what I found fascinating is I'm putting sunglasses on to try to read. you need reading glasses. You got dark, which just shows you right there, the difference between light and darkness and seeing and being blind. So I read this when it says in verse three, I guess, so the sister sent word to Jesus, Lord,

the one you love is sick. Well, there hadn't been a whole lot discussed about love up until this point. Would you agree? And you're talking about it in the book of John? Yeah. Well, you got John 316. Well, and John 335.

That's why I'm bringing this up. I think I have this pulled up somewhere because I did a little Google search on that. And even John won, he mentioned more life and light, to your point. Exactly. So John 3 is, well, what? I don't think it's an argument. It's probably the most famous verse in the Bible. Bible. John 316, for God so loved the world that he sent his son. And John the Baptist kind of doubled

down on that when he says kind of in that, uh, in that little riff he gave in the end of John three about the baptism. You know, he's like, well, hey, he's, he's baptizing more people than you, which actually it wasn't Jesus baptizing. But, and so John the Baptist, like, pull back. And all of a sudden, he starts giving this vision between him being God's representative on earth, but him being from the earth, and then Jesus being from heaven. So it's a crazy narrative, but he brings up this aspect of love.

You remember when he said in verse 31, John 331, the one who comes from above is above all, the one who's from earth belongs to the earth, the one who comes from heaven is above all, verse 32 he testifies to what he's seen in her but no one accepts his testimony because they're like god became a man what the man who who has accepted it has certified that god is truthful for the one whom god has sent speaks the words of god and gives the spirit without limit the father and then so he brings this up after he says for god so loved the world jesus

said that in John 316. We're here John the Baptist says the father loves the son and has placed everything in his hands. So it's mentioned a couple of other times, I think, before chapter 11. But what I'm going to tell you is this was a shift because all through John, you had these little theme lines that keep coming up like light and darkness and truth versus lies and life versus death, you know, life versus darkness. But you also have this love aspect of kind of that DNA. Because after this, this conversation, this story, love has mentioned 31 times from here

to the end of the book. 31. That's a lot. There's not many. You know, we're almost at the end of the story here. Yeah. So I think this is kind of that from John's literary style, all of a sudden he brings up love because I want to bring up the verse that when I went, oh, I think we should have talked about this. Y'all tell me what do you think about that.

It's verse five. So then in verse four, he says, when he heard this, Jesus said, this sickness will not end in death, notice for God's glory so that God's son may be glorified through it. and here we go. This is the one thing that we should have said, this is a big from John's writing, this is what this is about. Jesus love Martha and her sister and Lazarus. And so when you think about the attributes of God,

this is the rabbit hole I went down through this. so most people which i think is is actually a mistake because i'll just tell you what i came up with and then i'll get your comments on it we're fixing to see a display of god in human form his power he's going to raise a dead man from from the dead and he come back to light well so when you think about God's power. There's a lot of things you could talk about. But we tend not to think about love as powerful. When we think of God's power, what do you think? He's healing diseases. Yeah. There you go, Al. Creation. We're like, oh, there's the power of God. And then over here we have the love of God. Well, that thought is where I thought, I think we're missing something here.

And the more I studied and the more I read, the more I was like, oh my goodness, I think we've missed something. Here's what I came up with. When you look at God's power, and I'm going to show you the verses that prove this, you do see the creation, you do see redemption, but you also see even in Israel's history, where other nations who tried to take on God's chosen people, the Israelites,

you saw God's power where he gave them the ability to overcome despite being outnumbered. I mean, think David versus Goliath. You're like, well, that's God's power. He's giving them into his hand. What I wrote?

Remember when he told Gideon, he said, I'll take 3,000. He said, nah, you just need 300. Yeah. same same point and I think the what I'm fixing to present here is when you talk about love and I think the reason we missed it is is it's kind of like what we do when we tell our loved ones you know I love you or you know I love you or you think about the world's definition of love which is usually either sex or you know I love this book or yeah we say these same

these statements like that. But just think about how can you really love a book? I mean, the book's not going to love you back. We're just using that word, and that's not what that means. Yeah, I love fried chicken. You know what I mean? It's like, well, yeah, that's good, but how does that really help you in the long run? So then you think of like things like 1st Corinthians 13.

Well, see, these people had the Apostle, had laid their hands on them and they had this power to do miraculous gifts and they got hung up on the displays of the power and what did paul do in first christians 13 he starts talking about oh you think you have all this special knowledge and you you have all this these displays of the powers of god and he gives them a definition of love does he not He does. And he's like, you don't have that. You know what you have?

Nothing. And so I started thinking, what is love's, why is love being introduced from John's point of view in a relational way? And I'm like, you know what? We're answering the why question in love. So you have, I know you have other verses where it says God is, you know, something. but when you look at love and when it says God is love, first John four, God is love.

And when you read passages like I want to read, this is a, I miss this, but I'm going to read it to you. In Psalm 116, I'm going to read this. And look, I read this before and I thought, oh, isn't this cute? You know, so I'm not, not, I'm being sarcastic of myself. So if y'all turn to 136, you're going to see my point about this power, how power displays it and why God displays power

and how as humans we can miss, we can like categorize God with all these qualities because people love to do it. You know, if you start naming the qualities of God, they start, just start naming them. What will they say? He's eternal. He's omnipotent.

He's an abnipitous. We have all these qualities. Well, look, guess what? They put love in there with all the quality. Oh, yeah. loving also and and they'll say always also uh he gets angry and that's another quality you know he he's well i think we miss something with that that mode of uh trying to discuss god and i'm gonna try to prove it from first christmas 13 john 11 and psalm 136 and a lot of passages like

that so Psalm 136 it starts off and it's like give thanks to the Lord for for he is good. And then there's a line. I'd love to know what Zach's translation is on this little phrase. There's various ones I look up. Sometimes it says his faithful love endures forever. Then I.V. just says his love endures forever. What is your say?

His steadfast love endures forever. Yeah. Or his faithful love. What is your say, Al? Mine's in IV, so it just says his love endures forever. So it says give thanks. And it's like, oh, this is like a song or something. You know, it doesn't really have a title.

Some of them have, give you the details. Then it says, give thanks to the God of God's. Well, we've talked about that before. His love endures forever. Give thanks to the Lord of Lord, his love endures forever. We're talking about power now. He's the God of all gods. He is the Lord of all Lords.

And he's good, which would mean better than anybody else, since there's no sin, there's no, you know. But this would include heaven and earth, you know, because of his description. Why does he keep saying his love and theirs forever? Now, look, he's going to do that 26 times because there's 26 verses. But watch where this goes. Verse four, to him alone does great wonders. Well, we're getting into God's display of power.

Well, how does God display of power? his power, which is another question I probably should have asked. Because it's not like us. We have to, you know, we'll go work out or, you know, pump some iron, and then we'll say, hey, watch this. I'm fixing to display some power. We like pick up a, you know, you see these guys doing, you know, these strong. Tear the phone book in half, yeah.

Oh, look at me. Powerful, powerful, powerful. Well, how does God do that? Because we have an eternal being who doesn't, he's not made up like us. obviously. How does he do it? And I'll go ahead and answer it because if you find the rabbit holes on,

he wills it. All he has to do is will it. Just like let there be light. Boom. He just wanted light and there's light. I mean, it's pretty crazy if you think about it. But we get hung up on the results of him willing things in powerful ways.

the list is long. So who by his understanding made the heavens, but then you see the next, what does it say? His love and durers for it. Why does this keep happening? I mean, have you ever thought about this? Why does he keep repeating that? I mean, it's crazy.

Who spread out the earth upon the water, his love endures forever. Who made the great lights. We're definitely into creation now. You know, thanks start, his love endures forever. the sun to govern the day, his love endures forever. The moon, the stars, his love endures forever. To him who's funny, Jay's last night.

We were sitting out on our dock here, full moon, and we were marveling at God making the moon, reflecting from the sunlight, and how beautiful. We're all taking pictures on her cell phone, to prove your point. Exactly. So look, then, so in verse 10, we start feeling uncomfortable

because so far it's like, oh, his love, he's doing this all in love, which is the point, I think you have to assume. But then verse 10 is like, to him we struck down the firstborn over Egypt. You're like, well, wait a minute now. His love endures forever. That doesn't seem very loving. Yeah. But you start thinking about the context of that.

and enemies arose by their own choices who were not acknowledging God and not believing that he is the God of all gods. And by the way, it had 10 chances before this happening to do the right thing. So then you can take a quality of God that God is just or he's a protector or he's going to do what's right. and so all of a sudden, enemies start doing really bad things to other people that God has made. And he moves in. So we think, okay, we're getting it.

Love is the root of God taking on his enemies. So we keep going. And brought Israel out from among them, his love endures forever, with a mighty hand, an outstretched arm, which is the, again, all this powerful language. To him who divided the Red Sea, remember how powerful that was? Imagine the greatest sea and all of a sudden it parting and brought Israel through the midst of his love endures forever.

But swept Pharaoh and the army into the Red Sea, his love endures forever. You know, a little uncomfortable, but we're like, I'm just going to trust him that it was in love. to him who led his people through the desert his love endures forever who struck down great kings his love endures forever and killed mighty kings another uncomfortable moment his love endures forever the king of the amurites his love endures forever the king of bashing his love endures forever and gave their land as an inheritance his love and deers forever an inheritance to his servant israel's love and deers forever to the one who remembered us in our low estate

which I think is very profound verse. His love endures forever. And here we go and freed us from our enemies. His love endures forever. It's a... And who gives food... Look, and who gives food to all creatures. His love endures forever.

That's the sack of life there, dude. Well, even though these ones that just died because he was taking on. on his enemies and the enemies of other people. But at the same time, he's given food to all creatures. Well, that includes all humans. Give thanks to the God of heaven. His love endures forever.

So thoughts of where we're at here, because you basically have the power displayed in creation and redemption and freedom of people in that section. but the theme line that the psalmist wrote was his love endures forever and that's why i said there's the why why did you got to do all this the whole creation the people that exactly and and that is the thread and i think when you get to something like uh john 11 and you're like well what did you miss well i know from other verses that we've already read the last enemy to be destroyed death. But I know one thing from reading Psalm 136, and all over the place, about enemies who take

on God, whether it be celestial powers or people who are in cahoots with celestial powers, acting like their powers, or bowing down to other gods and all this, God takes them all on because of that relational aspect of him with people in love. And it's deeper, then just, oh, I love you. I mean, it's a love that while we're in lowest state, while we're steeped in sin, while we're being oppressed, you know, whatever the context is, he's coming to take on the enemies and save humanity.

It goes back to John 316. And I think that's why he introduced it here. Just the whole scenario about God being relational at its core and wanting to have this family, of humans, him dwelling in their presence forevermore. And here he's become a human, you know, and got into these situations. Not only what I'm saying now, but it would be a pattern that all his disciples who got to see this, that's why that little section is, he said, I'm glad you're going to get to

see this. Remember? And Thomas was like, oh, well, we'll go die with him. But he was wanting him to see this, because when you fast forward this and get to Peter, you remember what he says at the end? He's like, do you love me? Do you love me? It's post-resurrection.

Do you love me? And then they start talking about the death that he was going to die. I mean, he's showing them, this is going to be extremely difficult. They're going to be tears. There's going to be suffering. But this is the crux of why I'm here

because God's love endures forever. And I am God. Me and the Father I want. Yeah, it's hard for people, I think for us humans to, get our mind around that, and you can look at a lot of the debates over the centuries, have centered around what you called the DNA of God. Another term for that is attributes, the attributes of God. And there are, when you think about God's attributes, love being, obviously,

one of them. There's others you mentioned, wrath, justice, you mentioned those two, his invisible qualities, you know, Romans calls it his invisible qualities. power, omnipresent, meaning he's everywhere at the same time. He's not located in one place. He's everywhere. He's omniscient. He knows everything. There's all these attributes of God that are the DNA of what God is, and different confessions have tried to sum that up, and one of them is the Westminster Confession of Faith, which then they wrote some shorter versions of that. And I always had a problem with the definition that they used of God primarily because the word love is nowhere to be found in when it says what is God. It doesn't say the word love. And I always found that to be troublesome.

And I kind of understand why they may have left it out in some regard, but I don't think you can separate to your point. I mean, it's such a beautiful passage in Psalm 136 because the psalmist is attaching the attribute of God's love to all these other things that God's. God does like justice and wrath and mercy. And for me, it's been helpful to understand even wrath as a function of love. Because why would God, because that's the question, why does God have wrath? I mean, well, I think about my own family. And if you hurt one of my children, then you would experience the wrath of Zach, because I love

my children. And so my wrath, if I walk in and you're hurting one of my kids, then you're going to experience wrath. Where's that wrath coming from? It's coming from an intense love for my children, right? I love them deeply and you've hurt them. And I think that's one of the ways that we're made in God's image, and we actually reflect his character and his nature, that if you mess with God's people, he's going to be upset about that. Why?

Because he loves his people. but then there's this other problem that that also flows from love is that the people that are hurting God's people guess who they are are God's people right God so then there's this whole thing about mercy where God's now he's going to levy out mercy which is these are communicable attributes that God like they only kind of make sense in the context of how God interacts with his creation and so well why does God give mercy on those that he gives mercy on because he loves them so mercy and so mercy and wrath both flow naturally from who God is. And I think that's why that First John passed to it says two times in First John

four. It says that God is love. And I don't, I think that that's what he's talking about. The centerpiece of who God is is love. And to your point, you can love fried chicken. But the problem with that is, fried chicken can't love you back. Exactly. Well, you went the same place I was going to go. I was going to, I discovered a couple things. But that first John three, 16 says this is how we know what love is. Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. Well, that's what we just read in chapter 10 when he said, no one takes my life from me, but I give it and I lay down my life for the sheep. And so then in 1 John it says, and we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.

And so here, I think he's using that moment with Lazarus because he loved them. And it was really the crux of the whole reason why he's here, is this is all based on love. And we've defined it, and I say we, as in God being one with Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Because then when you read 1 John 4, it says this, this is 4-9. I mean, really, I feel like I need to start in seven. I'll start in seven, four, seven, dear friends, let us love one another. For love comes from God.

So just think about everything that is love on this planet. If you believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, you know where that came from? And I'm saying the definition of love like 1st Corinthians 13, not the way we use it. You know, love is patient, love is kind of. I mean, I think we should read it, but it says for love comes from God. And you're like, well, how could it come from him? Well, he answers it. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

Whoever does not love does not know God because God is love. Yeah, he is love. It's a, which the, I think the. You can't make it, Zach, to your point, you can't make it an attribute alongside the other attributes. And I try to explain that because it's the why. It answers the one question

everybody can't answer. It is the why all these other attributes are being displayed that you're like, oh, look at this power. But the greatest power is why he did it because he is a lover.

And love means nothing without a being displaying it. And love means nothing without a lover and a beloved, which is so then we're getting into the very nature of God now. Because now you're thinking about, well, how can God love, but how can it be love? Who's the lover and who's the one that's beloved?

Well, if your God is one person, then, yeah, God's not love. But if your God is three persons in one being, now you can actually say God, so rooted in the very framework of the triune God is this concept of that God is love. and I would say this, that I've heard people push back on maybe God's attribute of love because they fear, the fear is this, is that if I overemphasize God's love at the expense of his wrath and justice, then you end up with some form of like universalism,

which is basically, hey, everybody's going to end up with God. Doesn't matter where all roads lead to him, kind of this postmodern, you know, relativistic thing, right? and we're all on the same journey, different pathways, but guys love. But the problem with that, it might say. Well, the problem is that, Zach,

is that that would be the same as me saying, I don't want to go fishing because I might catch a gar. What do you mean? Well, I'm saying, it's like, you said they come up with this idea of love, but they're scared that it's going to lead to something else. And I'm like, well, I love fishing. I'm going to go catch an opulose.

his cat, but you can't go because what if I catch a gar? Yeah. Well, that's also, it's bad logic is what I'm saying. It's bad logic, and it's like we, like, this is the actual. Exactly. Think about Hebrews 12. God loves those he disciplines. So it's a very narrow understanding of love if it doesn't include discipline and

wrath, as you described earlier, and every aspect of who got it. It also flows from the problem that Jace is mentioning. and I've actually had this discussion with a lot people who are a lot smarter than I am, but I disagree with good people on this. But you can only have that problem if you separate these attributes from each other. If you separate God's love, and then you have a whole point. That's my whole point. That's the only way you have that dilemma.

If wrath is necessarily flowing out of love, you can't separate them. So there's no such thing as over-emphasizing love. It's just that's what, I mean, no, you. you emphasize it to the furthest degree that you can, and what's going to happen is your probably, you're going to actually increase your understanding of God's wrath to you, but you're also going to increase your understanding of God's mercy as well. So it's all of it.

It's who he is. It is God. Well, that's why I think Psalm 136 addressed that subtly. If you read it again, all of a sudden he starts taking down kings and his love in there's forever. It's like, well, find that. You're not going to find a Psalm with 26 verses and say, His wrath endures forever. His wrath endures forever. Why is he picking love?

You see what I mean? And I'll tell you why I think this. I'm going to give you a silly illustration after I read this. But it's not, I'll let you decide whether it's silly. But I heard it somewhere, but I think it's good. So when you go to Ephesians 1, where he kind of goes back to the whole scheme of redemption, and he starts off, I mean, y'all are familiar with it, I know, but I just want to point out those two words when it says Ephesians 1-3.

Because there's been so many doctrines come out of this that I disagree with because I think they've detached different aspects of God kind of to fit a narrative. But if you just read it and when he says, Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us, he's taught, you know, he's writing to people who are in Christ. Jews and Gentiles, and he makes a whole point about that in chapter 2. But it says, we've been blessed in the heavenly rounds with every spiritual blessing in Christ,

and he chose us in Christ, which is the display in human form of his love, which we wouldn't grasp who God is had he not come. But then he says, before the creation of the world, to be holy and blameless in his sight. This is the plan. But then there's two words there right in the middle of this. In love, he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ. Well, there's the overarching, which lines up with Psalm 136, makes total sense. You're like, yeah, but what about all what had to happen for that to happen?

Well, it doesn't matter to the point we're saying right now, but I know why. he did it, and there's two words. I know why he did this from the beginning. Would you agree that it was in love? Because he is love. Well, let me read these three Old Testament verses, to your point, because the idea is there a verse that says his wrath endures forever? I don't think there is one.

No, I mean, is there a Psalm where it says it in succession? Don't you think that's a weird song? I think it's weird. Why would he say the same thing 26 times in a row? Listen to Psalm 35, for his anger is but for a moment, but his favor is for a lifetime. Or Micah 718, who is a God like you, pardoning iniquity and passing over transgression for the remnant of his inheritance? He does not retain his anger forever because he delights in steadfast love, which is what my translation said in Psalm 136. and then Jeremiah 312,

Returned, Faithless Israel declares the Lord. I will not look on you in anger, for I am merciful, declares the Lord. I will not be angry forever. And so I think the scripture is pretty clear when it talks about the thing that is enduring is God's steadfast loving.

That is so true. Even you see it in the New Testament. He says, these three remain, what does he say? faith, hope, and love in the Corinthian letter, right? Oh, we're going to read it. These three remain. And the greatest of these, it's the greatest.

Why would he say that? Why would he say that? Why would he say that? Why he said the greatest? Look, this rabbit hole, we're going to have to have a part two because I know we don't have much time. But I want to get out this illustration because I heard it. I'm going to apply it. And look, it's an illustration. It's not found in the Bible, so you can take it or leave it.

But I'm going to give you like a riddle. So, and I use fire on purpose here. So let's just say a fire station, a group of people at a fire station who they make money, you know, to put out fires. And do we love and need? And I'm using the word love. Do we love and need these people? Yes, they're doing sacrificial acts. They're not worried about who the people are, what they go in there.

and go rush and put their live, they're willing to lay down their life to save others. And you're like, well, they get paid and all that. They don't ask what political party they are. They don't ask what race they are. They don't ask. So that's not minimize it. We love firemen, right?

So I'm going to make an illustration with that vein. Let's say a firehouse full of firemen, they start going out and setting fires so that they can then go to them and put them out and get paid to do it. Now, what would you call that? What would you call that? Corruption?

You could use the same illustration with the police force. Police force, same thing. They go out, encourage people to do crimes so that they can then go and lock them up. What is corruption? And I feel that's the same narrative when you start off with the quality that, you know, anger or wrath from the beginning.

It's like, because you have to go back to who's creating the scenario. Yeah. So if God started the fire and then said, oh, and now I've got to come down so I can put it out. Well, well, now how is our view of God? Well, that seems corrupt. He's not a very nice person. And maybe he's not good, you know?

Isn't that what Jesus said? when they said you have a demon and he says well how can I have a demon if I'm casting out demons absolutely same same same point and what was blasphemy was yeah that was what he called blasphemy you're saying that I'm actually doing the work of of God I'm performing miracles and you're attributing the work of God to the work of the evil one yeah we never want to attribute you evil to God that's not our God to evil that's that's a dangerous That's a dangerous same. So I think it's a good illustration. I don't know if y'all agree, but I think it, I think looking at it like that, you're like, okay, because what you said is people are

scared to focus on love being the driving force and during forever through all situations. And then Jesus comes and explains God, John 117. He makes him known. But all of a sudden, when you start reading about Jesus, you start seeing moments like John. 11. And you're like, wow. And it makes people feel uncomfortable because they're like, well, how can it say the Lord is a warrior? And now all of a sudden, he's over crying. You know, us as men, you know, when I first read that, I thought, ugh, I didn't really like that because, Al, you know how we were raised, you know. Yeah. You don't cry. Never. Never, which is so funny because years later, you know the spirit indwelled feeling it took a while you can't keep us from crying yeah and all of a sudden

you know the last 10 years of his life you know i saw a lot of tears you know and not because of uh necessarily sad things i would seem just just get teared up over something joyous happening you know remember the episode where we gave the home to the lady that we all loved and knew growing up dad just broke down. No doubt. Out of generosity, which was very powerful. All right. But I wanted to say this one last thing for you, close us out when we get to the part two

is when Wall Ago and Zach made that argument about people that are fearful that if they focus on what the Bible says is what I'm saying, that love is flowing out from God. But later on in 1 John 4, he says there is no fear in love. that's verse 18. But perfect love drives out fear because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. And I would like to go down that rabbit hole in our next podcast on the word perfect. It's mentioned 18 times in the New Testament.

That's where we're headed. And I agree. We miss something big. Chase was right. I'll give him credit. So we'll pick it up next time. I'll know the shame. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast.

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