Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1130 | Jase Shows His Age in Some Embarrassing Ways & What Does ‘Perfect Love’ Even Mean?

Episode Date: July 21, 2025

Jase shows his age with a few embarrassing “old man moments,” ending with a failed bribe attempt that proves $20 doesn’t go far anymore. Al’s “walk of shame” in New Orleans has the guys thinking about launching a new “Phil Says” segment to share classic Robertson one-liners. Jase then dives down a rabbit hole to explore what the Bible says about being “perfect,” exploring 1 Corinthians 13 and 1 John 4 to reveal how God’s perfect love casts out fear, transforms relationships, and changes lives. In this episode: 1 Corinthians 13, verses 4–13; John 11, verses 1–5; 1 John 4, verse 18; Matthew 5, verses 43–48; Matthew 19, verses 16–22; Romans 12, verses 1–2; Romans 13, verses 8–10; Romans 14, verses 5–9; 1 John 4, verses 13–18 —  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashame. I'm still down here at the Southern Largerjays. I got a house full of Texans this week. There you go. Hook them horns. Yeah, we've got some Texan friends that have come over. So we're entertaining this week. Are they Aggies or they longhorns?

No, they're all longhorns, this group. Yeah, they don't like the other Texas people. I noticed they're all very clannish with their sports stuff over in Texas. But, I mean, if you pull for Texas Tech or the Aggies or the Longhorns or the this one or that one, they're very serious. I usually use these kind of rivalries of worldly activities as a way to say, you know, the only way we're going to be able to get along is if you know and understand a guy named Jesus. It's a really good icebreaker. That's good. And they're like, oh, oh, just because we're reading for the hogs or the longhorn doesn't mean we don't follow Jesus.

And I was like, well, it's beginning to wonder. You know, because people get upset over these things and they start acting in ways that are not Christ-like. Well, we share this podcast with a gator, and you know how we feel about them. But we love Zach anyway, like in spite of his weaknesses. But I'm saying, you know, competition, happy. I actually had a weird encounter on the golf course. One of my buddies, I mean, he just showed up angry. And, you know, he was getting mad after every swing.

And at some point I just said, I thought this is supposed to be fun. And he was looking at him like, what do you mean? I was like, you're not having any fun. And so I think I kind of offended him then. But a day later, he sent him me a text and said he was wanting to go play golf again. and I was like, hmm. And he said, I'm going to fix my attitude. And I actually introduced our podcast.

I said, maybe you need to start listening to our podcast. We deal with. Has he never heard the podcast? Well, evidently not, because if you're getting mad and acting like, you know, you miss a shot. But it did make me think that golfing. encounter that we need a new segment. A new segment on the podcast? A new segment on the podcast.

I keep getting it. A drum roll please. Well, look, but we don't ever have a drum roll. I keep telling Maddie, we need these little music clips and like. Like last podcast it was the ship heading out of the harbor. Exactly. Like when we start, every once a while, just sound off a horn. Look, or a train.

There we go. okay good Maddie has done it she's finally done Maddie I've been wanting you to push that button for four years now so no what I thought was because something happened

I mean look we're not getting any younger Al and Zach even though you're the youngest yeah so I guess I was disturbed because I was like what's wrong my buddy he's just you know he's in a bad mood or whatever

and I was distracted And I'm trying to play golf. It's supposed to be a healthy distraction, you know. So I got on about number 16, and I'm like, where's my golf glove? And he's like, oh, I don't know, it must have fell out of the cart. And I was like, well, do you think we can go back and look for it? And he said, I'll go do it because I think he's feeling guilty, you know. So he goes back and he's looking.

He comes back, you know, and I'm like, I just bought that glove today. and he said, well, is it the one on your hand? And I looked down. It's on my hand. Oh, geez. Oh, wow. This is just beginning. So then I go reach to find my range finder, you know, to see how far I am.

Well, I can't find it. I was like, he's like, well, it's not in your pocket. Ah, ha, ha, you know, looked at it. No, I've lost it now. And so, and it was. not recovered. And so after the round, and this goes in with the new segment I want to do, but after the round, I figured out where I had last used it. And so I went over there and looked not there. I went to the clubhouse. I was like, is anybody turned in, range finder?

No, what's it look like? I said, it has my name on it. I put my name on because I've lost it many times before. Usually people turn it in. Went down to the cart barn, you know, nothing. But there was very few people there. So I was at my truck and I was like, I can't believe I've lost this rain finder. I don't want to go have to buy another one. I mean, surely. So I look, and there's three cart guys sitting on a bench because there's nothing to do. They're just sitting there.

And I said, hey, I said, do y'all work here? Which I know how that sounded because they were sitting on a bench. And they said, yeah. And so I used a line, and this goes in with the new segment, I think, that Phil, when I say this line, you will remember him saying this hundreds of times. I said, I've got a crisp $20 bill for one of you guys who ever finds my range finder. I lost it. I said, I looked in the cart barn.

there wasn't anybody in there I thought maybe that's where y'all would be but you're sitting on a bench I checked at the clubhouse I know where I left it whole number six somewhere around the green I said it's a Chris $20 bill

it has my name on it I'm Jace they never moved I could tell you why when we were kids in the segment that I'm offering is Phil's sayings or story segment. Because do you remember that, Al? I remember that. Sometimes it was a crisp $100 bill.

Well, it evolved. That was the story I was going to tell. My dad started off literally with, I have a crisp $1 bill for whoever finds whatever he had lost. Then it went to a five. Then it went to a 10. You know, we caught more fish. The duck calls.

It went to a 20. Now I'm saying it was years where it would evolve. And when Duck Dynasty hit, it turned into a crisp, $100 bill for whoever five. Inflation. Yeah. But what I thought, you know what I thought, Zach, is my dad, if this was true, which it's false. But my dad, he would be rolling in his grave, which he's not there. And that body will come out.

Oh, yeah. if he saw that these guys never moved. They never moved to muscle. But you were $20. I mean, your dad and my mom, she did the same thing, by the way. The same exact, there was a crisp, whatever. So it's a Robertson thing. It was a Robertson thing.

And I will say this, they were early adopters. And I feel like they got to a crisp $100 bill. They got there quick. The problem is they stayed there for too long. And so then the jobs that would be like, my mom was doing that back when I was, you know, 16 years old when a $100 bill, that was a big, now, the work, she never kind of got what the inflation had happened. So I think you're suffering from an inflation problem. You're not recognizing. Well, I know this, is that when my kids were that age, these were 14 to 16 year old, that's what they look like, somewhere in that range.

when my kids were there and I would say a Krift's $10 bill, they all took up running. And I mean, I started to say it. Well, let me ask you this. What are you doing? You're just standing there.

But the money was for them to locate the, I said, whoever finds it, I will give you. Well, they're getting paid. How much was the range finder? That's what you can't offer 100. It's not irrelevant.

Because $100 will buy a new range. That's what I'm saying. But if they got, what if they got? Well, if they got a range finder, if you got a range finder that's worth 80 bucks, they can sell on eBay for 80, you're often earned 20. Well, it has my name on it. So that it's probably worth more then. That makes it worth more than.

That's a well-known person. That's $120 any. Well, I appreciate you saying that because that proves you're more of a pessimist than I am because you went to crime. I went, there's a problem in our society now. It's young teenagers who are not being motivated. Look, Zay, well, you're leaving out one key point. They're sitting on their butt doing nothing.

You've got to pay the play these days. That's part of it. Doing nothing. And I said, here's $20. Call it a competition. There's three of you. You've got to pay up, doesn't he? No, I know.

He costs me cheap. I would have offered at least three months. I agree with Jays. I agree with Jays on this point. And I've got in in the light of this new segment, I've got another Phil saying that actually ties into this story. So we went to New Orleans recently and they parked my car because everything down there, you can't like, you can't park your own car because all the hotels have ballet parking.

And so we're getting out that got kids, all this while I leave my wallet and my computer in my truck and they parked it. So I got to go back down for the walk of shame and this poor guys down there trying to park all these cars. And I said, dude, I said, I got to get to my truck. And he kind of just looked at me. His face kind of fell. And he said, I left my wallet and my computer. He said, come on, man. And so I said, man, I really appreciate you doing it. And now he's just doing it. Like, I haven't said anything about a tip or anything. He's just taking me to where the cars are parked. And I put the line on him, Jace. I said, you know what my dad would say for you helping me out?

And he looked at me. He said, what's that man? I said, you're a gentleman and a scholar. We should have the segment, maybe have some CCR vibe, CCR vibe music. And then it's like three rapid statements from Phil, you know, like, give me a break. You're a gentleman and a scholar. Chris $20 a bit. I don't know if he said that on a podcast. We can't get him.

Oh, you're saying once he's said, yeah, actually. Yeah, yeah, it's like that's the, you know, you need a, I'm trying to get that. When I said that to the parking guy, he lit his face. He had the biggest smile on his face. He took me to my truck. We got my stuff. I actually rode with him over in another car, which you're probably not supposed to do. And we got my stuff and came back.

And then guess what I gave him, Jason, a crisp $20 bill to just tie that story up. Well, it was disappointing. And I started when they didn't move, I cranked my truck up and they were still sitting there. And I thought, should I just do this now? And then Missy called me. It was like, come help me with these grandkids. They're driving me crazy. So I was like, well, we'll leave it to another.

Because we found out on the last podcast, Missy likes to create environments where difficult circumstances thrive. Yeah. True. It's, Al, what it is, love. You know, we've been talking about love. Yeah. We had an epiphany, and I laid it out there.

and which reminds me I need to promote something that I'm going to be at because look you can't make this up I'm fixed to promote a place that I'm going that's called the city of brotherly love Philadelphia

I'm taking this as a sign maybe we need to jingle for that when something ironic happens so let me get this in here so on August 8th from 4 to 9 the Calvary Chapel of Philadelphia. Now doesn't that sound like a place

where brotherly love is happening? They're hosting a men's event. Bring your sons and friends for tailgate, barbecue, games, and a message from Jace. That would be me. And I'm pretty sure what the message is going to be about. We'll have some fun. I'll tell some jokes.

But then the next thing you know, you're going to be hearing about the creative of the universe and how much makes me want to go to your event because you know Philadelphia was could I hang out in the green room if I came to your event I'm sure I can cut you I like the Calvert Chapel guys I like I like what they're doing that's a good crew for you to be rolling with they'll line you out well Zach I'm so glad you approve seriously I've had a few events because I don't care what the venue is some of them are not Christian people but then so then you're you're

You're giving the same message, but with a lot more intensity, you know. Yeah. Which I always appreciate places that, you know, don't always line up sometimes on the, you know, political side of things and all this, but that invite us to come in areas because it's just a great place to share Jesus. So I love it. I love it with Philadelphia. That'll be great, Jay. So Augusta, yeah, I'll be there.

So you brought up in the last podcast, and you were right, I'll give you credit where credits do, that we had missed a really big point in the beginning part of our study in John 11, and you went back and highlighted it when the setup was in the first three to five verses of John 11, that the one who Jesus loved is the way John described Lazarus was sick. And then later, John says he loved Martha, he loved Mary, and he loved Lazarus. So you made a point that he really highlighted that, which we didn't make a reason when we were back there. And then that led you down a rabbit hole that we looked at a lot of verses the last time. And I was thinking when you mentioned 1st Corinthians 13 because it was hard for me to get in there.

You and Zach had so many good points last time. But the whole time you were talking about this big picture, this like depth of the love of God. And now, and I think you're right. It's more foundational than his attributes that we typically apply to him. It's the why. You know, it's the why? Why do you do this? Exactly.

And I just thought about it immediately as a person who deals with people at a lot of times, an individual level of difficulty in relationship. If you're a pastor in a church, a preacher, you know, a leader, elder, you're going to deal with people at their worst. It's a lot of times as siblings to parents, as siblings with one another. It's two members in a church. It's mostly husband and a wife. And so it's all these relationships situations. And I couldn't help but think about it, Jay's, because love is the foundation for all of those relationships as well.

And it can be a godly love, which makes it better. But it's an earthly love as well. When two people decide to get married, you know, you're seeing them at their best. I mean, everybody's got their best foot forward. Everybody's talking about love. When Lisa and I meet with a premarital couple, man, I mean, they have nothing but dreams ahead of them. And they're not even thinking about the possibilities of difficulty. And so that same couple who I could have sat with Lisa and I for six weeks and then me do their ceremony and they're saying the right words and they're making that vow and that pledge to one another.

We have that great moment. But that same couple can be sitting in my living room or my office, you know, six months later, a year later, five years later, and saying, I don't know why I married this person. Yeah, I think I married the wrong person, you know, because now difficulty or some situation or some selfish act or, you know, some whatever has entered into the picture. And guess what diminishes every single time we get to this place of impasse is the love that they started with. And one of the people we use a lot in our counseling, our premarital counseling, calls it a Love Bank. And he says, it's just like your bank. If you diminish all the funds, then you're NSF. You know, you don't have sufficient funding.

It's the same way with love. And so when you were talking about First Corinthians 13, which is a passage about God and us, people, the church, in particular, Paul is talking to the Corinthian Church. think about listening to these verses from four to nine that really lay out exactly what we have in every single relationship. It starts with God, but then the same thing goes with us. Love is patient. Verse four, love is kind. It does not envy. It does not boast.

It is not proud. When I start reading this to somebody that's having these struggles, they start looking at each other like it's every single thing. we're not doing. It is not rude. It is not self-seeking. It is not easily angered. It keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with truth. It always protects. It always trusts. It always hopes. It always perseveres. Love never fails. At the end, he says, in Zach quoted this last time, when you have three things left, faith, hope, and love, the greatest is love. And so to further add to your point about the love of God, you see the exact same thing in human relationships.

When love is diminished or when it's abused or when it's forgotten or when it fades, then what you're going to see is it becomes very quickly replaced by anger with all the things we read the opposite in that text. And eventually it'll be hate. I mean, you have to create a scenario where this person, you hate this person. and therefore I want the marriage to be over. I want the relationship to end. I don't want to talk to you anymore.

I'm moving on. I'm moving away. And that's where it ultimately ends up, which kind of becomes that contrast of good and evil. So the whole time you were talking last time, I just immediately linked into just where every single one of us out there who's living, which is why we try to get people back to a relationship with God and talking about physical earthly relationships,

because if you can understand a little bit about self-s, sacrifice and love and empathy and all the things that Christ brought, then you get away from the idea of hate which leads to nothing but division. Yeah, and that's why I think he brought it up here because just think about what he went through. He was willing to get blamed for what happened because, Al, you went through marriage, but I mean, how many funerals have you done since you've been a pastor? How many?

A hundreds. You've done hundreds. And look, you see people in their most vulnerable, emotional. I mean, just think about all the funerals that we've gone to, just where kids were involved. And, I mean, just horrific situations. And it's so difficult to have these conversations. And people are mad, sad.

And very seldom, you know, glad. But, and I'm not joking about that, you know, because it's just some people, they're like, Gee whiz, I'm glad they're gone. You know, just angry. Because they call, you know, everybody has a funeral. I mean, I think it's actually against the law. Because you remember another Phil segment story?

He's like, no, Jay's, he told me this probably 20 years ago. He's like, when I die, he said, and they're all talking about the funeral. He said, just take my body and just go dump me in the river. I was like, Phil, as disturbing as that is, I actually. think that's against the law. And he went, is it? He wanted a Viking funeral. Yeah, he wanted the flukers. Put me on a raft. Set it on five. And he would say, look, wherever I wind up, if I'm like caught in a snag or something, you know, that's where I wind

up. Put a net right below me. He said, because the catfish will, they will come there. I can guarantee you there. Oh, I know. It was just like, and I remember Ms. Kay just rolling her eyes. She's like, oh, I'm not sure why. I've stayed with you this long with those kind of crazy ideas. I think when you think about John 316 for God's to love the world. Well, for us, that's like, oh, that's awesome. Most quoted verse in the Bible. But then all of a sudden, in John 11, he singles out these three individuals.

And John does. And why is he doing that? And I think it shows you how personal God's love is. And we've said before, nobody's ever going to love you like Jesus. I mean, that's a true statement. But I think the fact that he's making this personal, in view of the resurrection and the power and the pain that people go through in death and the blaming of God, I mean, they're basically all blaming him.

If you had been here, this had never happened. I thought you loved this. And that was the, you're right, that was the reaction he got from Martha and Mary, whom he loved, was if you had been here, this wouldn't happen. Yeah, I thought you loved him. I mean, I thought you loved us. I mean, this, and so that whole struggle, I think, is showing you the extent of Jesus showing God's love because it is personal. Yeah. You know, very seldom, I'm getting an amen from the heavens here. It's literally thundering as I'm saying this, which is, it actually gave me chills. But I think

that is our most difficult and vulnerable times. in life, you know, I mean, I literally stopped life for about a year, you know, when my best friend from high school got killed just randomly. It was the most spiritual person I knew. And I'm like, now, why are we doing this? I mean, because I'm riding with God and I'm thinking, well, this doesn't make any sense. And I think, you know, if I'd have heard maybe what we're talking about, what I would have understood really the plan of God in a unique way, because it becomes so personal that you realize that Jesus is setting up what he's fixed to go through. Yeah.

Pain, the suffering. He's literally entering the realm of the dead to take out death itself and the one who has the power of that, which he says, is the devil. Hebrews 2.14, 1st John 3. I mean, that's what it says. But what does he do by doing that? Well, I don't know how many people's been on the planet. I'm sure that's in a Google search near you.

I think it's over $100 billion. But he's now made it available for all these people who have died, all those pains, tears, to now be freed from death itself. And I think when you add all that up and the weight of all that and who he is, he didn't deserve to die and all this, you know, he's literally weeping with those who weep, over the death of a loved one. And I think it makes more sense when you look at it in that vein. Yeah, I think, too, it's thinking of it as a liberation from death,

which is coming, which Christ will accomplish as the final enemy to be destroyed, which is death. But you've got to think about the question is why is death an enemy to begin with? and ultimately why is the final enemy that needs to be destroyed. And because I think the answer to that question is actually leading us right back into the very thing that God is. The reason why death needs to be destroyed is because death separates relationship. That's what it does.

It's like we're not like I no longer can talk to my mom right now because she died. We're not talking to Phil. We talk about Phil. We tell stories. We laugh. We remember. But we're not, Phil's not sitting at the podcast table anymore because death. has separated us from him, and ultimately we're going to experience that same fate,

you know, unless the Lord comes back before then. So the reason why death has to be destroyed is what, because what God is ultimately after. It's not just, it's not just that Christ is like, you know what, I think I'm going to kill death. I'm going to go destroy death. No, he's destroying death for a purpose, and the purpose of the destruction of death is so that God may then, or probably say it this way, we may then dwell. with him. It's the song of Moses, right? About the construction of the mountain where God's people, where God will abode, his house, God's house, where God dwells, his abode is home. And so when you get to a place like John 15, which is a further continuation of the story that we're in right now,

because we're in John 11, just a few chapters later, Jesus says this, as the Father has loved me, so have I loved you so now you're seeing that love what does I have to do with with dwelling and living with him and being in his house well he says it abide make your home abode live in my love abide in my love this is what we're being caught into is escape from death but abide in god's love if you keep my commandments you will abide in my love just as i have kept my father's commandments and abide in his love these things I have spoken to you that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be full. So this is really an invitation, invitation into real everlasting joy, which is found in relationship with God by interacting and participating in the divine nature, to quote from Peter.

This is my commandment that you love one another. Well, how do we do that? Well, love us, I love you. And this is it. This is the whole point of what he's talking about in John 11, one of the reasons why he's weeping to your point. Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends, if you do what I command you. Jesus will go to the cross.

Jesus will conquer death. Why? Because he loves Lazarus. He's weeping because it's his friend. He knows that I'm going to lay down my life for my friends to conquer death. so that we can actually be in a house together and we can live together and we can be in community together. Which is why I think you see that, Zach, when you look at the resurrection we have in this

life, when we talk about being renewed to live in that love, that's why when I was talking about earlier, all the situations that in relationships, his love is big enough to where he can carry us across that past people's weaknesses, past other people's sins, past other people's things that they do to betray and hurt us, we can still do that because Christ is so powerful. I mean, Lisa and I are living examples of that of what happens when everybody says, no, this can't work anymore. You're just saying, no, it can because I'm telling you, the one who destroyed death also shows us a way to love beyond even the biggest relationship deal breakers there are out there,

which is powerful. I thought about at the end of your mom's lives, Zach, and our dads, both of the them suffering from Alzheimer's, they said and did things that were hurtful to us. I mean, over the course of their last few months and years, but none of us wavered in our love for them because we understood what they were afflicted with. And nothing like that could ever go past our love for them and our realizing that they were in Christ and we were brothers and sisters before it was mom and son or dad and son. And so I don't know about y'all, but I never just said, everything. Well, my dad doesn't love me anymore because, you know, he got all mad at me for this

thing that was a crazy thing that wasn't even true. I never thought like that. I just loved him and said, you know what, that's going to be okay. God's going to restore all things in the resurrection. We would tell him that consistently, even if he was mad at us in this frame of mind that he was in. Why? Because what we're a part of is so much bigger than hurling insults or anything like that. That's why Jesus showed us that even on the cross. He was bigger than everything they threw at it, and it was love. I think you'll find this fascinating. Last podcast, I promised to go down this rabbit hole on this word, perfect.

And I read 1st John 4 where it says, there is no fear in love. Yeah, perfect love cast out all fear. Last time I quoted that verse in 1 John 4, where it says, there is no fear and love, but perfect love drives out fear. Well, you see that word perfect? Well, if you do the Greek lexicon of that verse, you'll find that that word perfect is used. Let me look, 19 times in the New Testament.

This is very fascinating because one of these verses is probably the most talked about. where it's used and discussed and theorized in what does it mean what does it mean what does it mean what does it mean and the verse that i'm referring to is first christmas 13 which how you read that while ago you skip the verse where it says this which rightfully so because people are like well what does this mean and so i'll quoted or read first christians 13 4 through 8 where it says you know the end is love never fails and then verse nine Now watch what this is For we know in part

And we prophesy in part But when perfection comes Same word And where is it found In the context Of love And then it says It kind of gives you a vision

And people are like What is this perfection That's coming? That's the debate. The imperfect disappears. And then it says, when I was a child, I taught like a child, I thought like a child, or reasoned like a child,

when I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror. Then we shall see face to face. I know in part, then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. And now these three remain, faith, hope, and love, but the greatest of these is love. And so I'm offering you that perfection is about understanding God's love. And I'm going to prove it to you. The first time that word is used, this perfection, is in Matthew 5 in verse 48.

It says, be perfect, therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect. Well, the first time I read this as a new Christian, I thought, well, I'm never going to be. that's it it's over and people read that and they're like what can I do well nobody's perfect that's a saying that we have

what does he mean well I've just read you two of the references and what was the context of it love love what is the context of this paragraph if you back up and look at verse 43 you have heard that it was said love your neighbor and hate your enemy

but I tell you love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your father in heaven. Well, now it starts making sense, tying in with John 11. You want to know what perfection is. It's understanding God's love and becoming a lover, which is when you brought up the marriage illustration,

people can't get along. You said, what is the answer to that understanding God's love? And then that getting a hold of you, and it turns you into even something, that we haven't even talked about, which is the last thing I want to do in this planet, which is love my enemies. But even Jesus on the cross, what was one of the last things he said? He's like, forgive them. He's like, I mean, God's love, you talk about it. Oh, yeah, I know God loves me. Oh, do you? Oh, it's way deeper to put into practice. It's radical. It's radical

forgiveness. I mean, it is like, I mean, to your point out, I mean, like you, your test, testimony so powerful, and I tell people, I point people all the time to you and Lisa's story, because there was radical infidelity that was, like, crushing, right? And you think in that moment, I mean, I remember kind of that time period, it's kind of hard to actually go back to the despair of that moment because I've seen what the Lord has done. It's hard for me to remember, probably is for you, too, in some degree, like what God has done in your life since then. but I was thinking about what you're experiencing now post-resurrection of your marriage is life. And so there's this, it's not that Christ accomplishes.

We've got to be careful to make it sound like that the resurrection in and of itself is the prize, because it's not. It's not the resurrection in and of itself that's the prize. It's that the resurrection leads to life because John 5 says there will be two resurrections. Right. One group will be raised to live. Another group will be raised, they will rise to be condemned. The prize is to live and to live is to love and to love is to be participating and partaking in the divine nature. Father, son, spirit. Come in. Come into the party. Come into the relationship. Come into the dance. And I love how you describe it with the idea of abundance.

Remember what he said in John 1010? I've come that they might have life and not just life, but abundant life. Oh, yeah. And until there becomes this idea of embracing the radical love of Christ, especially when your life is on the wrong path, as Lisa and I experienced, you never really understand how good it can be, how abundant life could be. And so, you know, you're looking at, from my perspective, you're right, say, 25 years later, you look back and you think, oh,

my goodness, what if we had succumbed to not being able to express that love? Look at what we would have missed in 25 years. And so I say that to people out there who I know are listening, who are on that precipice of saying, I just, it seems so hard. I just don't think I can do it. Jason is exactly right. I'm telling you, the love of Christ can change it at its radical core to a place you can't even imagine right now. But I'm telling you, it's there because I've lived And you know what else, Al? I'll say this real quick, is that there's a harder part, that it's not just from your perspective, that if you're listening to this podcast, like, before a holy God, I mean, think about it, before a holy, infinitely glorious, pure, unadulterated God, we, everybody stands equally as fornicators, adulterers, what I, name that. None of us, like compared to who he is, it's all of our story. And Christ died for the sins of the world for God so loved the world that he gave

his only begot and the sun. So we're in the world. So then if you start to think about the model, John 15, and he's like, love like I loved you, well, man, we start thinking about how he loved us. Really, we're all guilty. Yeah. Well, I want to bring this up, the next time it's used, because what you're saying, which is what's crazy, because y'all have a.

y'all haven't gone down the rabbit hole but it's like every verse where those 19 times it's exactly you're giving the practical application and I'm like yep so look the next one is the is the conversation with the rich young ruler so in Matthew 19 you know there was a man came up to Jesus and said what good thing must I do to get eternal life well look that that's resurrection phraseology, eternal life. Yep. And Jesus said, well, why do you call me good? Jesus replied, there's only one who is good if you want to enter life, obey the commandments.

Now, why is he bringing this up? And this is, I never understood this until I understood this rabbit hole. Because if you just stop and think about it, how did Jesus sum up the commandments? Love God, love your neighbor. Well, what's the common theme there? Look, so watch what happens. And here's why I think we missed it or didn't think about it like this. He says, which ones?

The man replied, and Jesus said, so he starts naming all the commandments. Don't murder. Don't commit adultery. Don't steal. Don't give false testimony. Don't honor your father and mother. Look, if you think about all those commandments, you're doing somebody else wrong. We're looking at it like sins.

But it's relationship busters. Every one of them. You steal somebody, what happens? If you cheat on your life, what happens? If you give false testimony, you're severing relationships in every one. And that's why he says, and love your neighbor as yourself. Well, look, here's what the, and here's why I missed it. He says, and all these I've kept, the young man said, what do I still like?

and then I'm going to put in a verse that's not in here, but it's a thought because Jesus, by his next statement, will prove what I'm saying. You know what's the thought here? Have you? He said, all these I've kept, have you? Because watch what he says. If you want to be, and there's our word, perfect. The same one he said, as the father's perfect, be perfect.

The same one he said in 1st, Corinthians 13, when the perfection comes. the same one in 1 John 4. Perfect love drives out fear. He says, if you want to be perfect, go sell your possessions and give to the poor. Well, we're back to relationship with people and reflection of God's love. So that's why his answer was, have you kept those commandments? He thought he had, but he was not a lover. He was looking at it like, you know,

however he was rationalizing, which is what Zach just said. At the end, you look at all your sins and they're there, but somehow he had rationalized that he had kept the commandments without being a lover. And that's why Jesus starts talking about it's impossible. You know, when the disciples heard this, they thought, well, this seems kind of hard because they were missing it too. And he was like, with God, all things are possible. And you're like, why would he say that?

Because he's a lover. and if you get his love, you'll realize that all things are possible, even life after death, the relationship can go on and on and on and on and on. And so I'm going to give you another place. Let me mention this where you leave there, Joe. It's so good because what Jesus could have said was what he told the other disciples that asked, not that exact question, but a similar question. He could have said, just leave everything and follow me.

That's what we told the rest of them, because in me is where the perfection is. but he knew this guy and so the series of questions he asked him and the way he went about it was the same thing you told the others leave everything and follow me he just said it in a different way that this guy was thinking performance base which is exactly what people think when they think perfection they think what can i do to be perfect and the point is you can exactly and what what's so frustrating to me and why i'm so passionate about this is i've heard a hundred lessons on the Rich Young Ruler, and I've never heard love highlighted on what love is. And that's the whole point. Yeah. He missed the whole point. But you know, and I found it because that one word he uses perfect

that's always tied to love. So look, another, you're going to be shocked at where this. Real quick, you know, you don't often hear in that same preaching that I think flows directly from what you just said about the Rich Young Ruler is we typically preach that text with what's the point that you've got to sell all your stuff. You've got to get rid of it. You can't be rich. Oh, exactly. It's sell everything you have and then and come follow me. And so apprenticeship to Christ directly flows from Christ's love of us. And then we embody love as I love, John 15. And I think that gets into this whole idea that

that's what we're predestined to do. We're predestined to be conformed into the image of the sun. Which is the embodiment. of love which you can't understand because it originates from God. That's why all these crazy doctrines went off. They quit looking at Jesus because they're not looking at it. He is the embodiment of what love is because he is God in a human body. Which shows your point is right because when we get to John 12 in the next chapter,

one of the disciples says, well, this person should have done this. They should have sold it and given it to the poor. And Jesus says the poor you'll always have, but me is who you won't always have. Exactly. Same concept. I had the same thought when I went on to Reddit, and I thought, well, I understand why he talked to that rich young ruler now. Well, look. Hold on one more thing.

One more thing. So people say this about us a lot. I love it. It's like they can't quite figure out what camp we're in. And you've said it quite a bit, James. We're not in camp. We're in Camp Jesus if we're going to be in a good. That's the one we're in.

Oh, I like that line. The camps, the camps, they result because of a fear. We're afraid of what something might lead to. But here's the thing about love. What does Jesus say? Love cast out all fear. That's what the Bible says. Love cast out all fear.

We didn't receive Romans 8 a spirit of fear or timidity, but we received a spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, Abba father. What is a spirit of sonship? Love. It's love. It's community, it's relationship. And it's not defined by us, and it is beyond our understanding, which, by the way, half of the words translated perfect that I'm looking up out of the 19. The other half are all in the context of becoming mature.

But it's the same word as perfect in Christ. You're like, oh, that's a crazy thought. And it's because Jesus did this, this whole idea about. Jesus taking on the enemies of us, which is why sin and death, physical death, are always linked together because it goes back to the garden. And all these enemies that go down when they tried to take on Israel, and you're like, oh, they're enemies, we've got to take on our enemies. And then all of a sudden he gets to the cross himself and he says, forgive them, for they not know what they're doing. In Matthew 5, he's like, love your enemies. And you're like, well, wait a minute. You know what that takes

to get to that maturity, time. It's very hard because our view of love never has that involved. We always want to alienate the enemy, you know, in humans. But I think that's why you start understanding verses like Ephesion 6 where it says, you know, our struggle's not against flesh and blood,

and you start understanding the weapons we fight with or not the weapons of the world. And the greatest weapon we have is this understanding of love and being complete. It is the ultimate weapon. But I want to bring this up before we close because we're almost out of time.

Because this was the most fascinating one. Of all the ones I've already shared, which I'm really passionate about, this one was the most fascinating one because I thought, well, I never thought about it. And it's in Romans 12. I mean, I have heard thousands of sermons on Romans 12, one and two.

But I didn't realize that one of the 19 times, that this word perfect is used is in Romans 12 too. And I just wonder, I'll read this. I know we all know this by heart, but therefore I urge you brothers in view of God's mercy to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God. This goes into the laying down your life. We're back to the John 10. We're, you know, the same concept. This is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is. Remember the last podcast?

I brought up this idea about how God displays his power. He wills it. Well, here it is again. And look what he says. His good, pleasing, and there's that word. Perfect will. And every time you see that word, it is. linked to love. And even Paul

in this writing in the next chapter, he addresses all these arguments that are happening among the brothers in Romans 13. And I want to read it. Look at 13.8. Let no debt remain

outstanding except the continuing debt to love one another. I mean, because they're arguing about he owes me money. They're having a practical conflict. And he he starts going into love, this perfect will of God, by the way. The commandments, do not commit adultery, do not commit adultery, do not still, sound familiar,

well, now we're back to Matthew 5, be perfect as your Heavenly Father's perfect. And whatever other commandment there may be are summed up in this one rule, love your neighbor is yourself, love does no harm to his neighbor. Therefore, love is the fulfillment of the law. But the most interesting thing is when he gets to chapter 14 and he gets into these other arguments. Look, he ties it back to the same place where in John 11, which is the resurrection. Watch what he says in verse 5. One man considers one day more sacred than another, so they're having these arguments.

Another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day a special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat. They were having arguments over that, you know, meat given to idols. But it says eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God. And he who abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. The key theme is the Lord.

For none of us, here's the key little phrase. None of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. That's why death is an enemy, as Zach pointed out. If we live, we live to the Lord. And if we die, we die to the Lord. So whether we live or we die, we belong to the Lord. For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life. He didn't just die.

He returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. You then, why do you judge your brother? Because that's that contagious love that we get from God. or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. And people read this to say, oh, there's the fear. Oh, you got it backwards. Oh, you're going to stand in confidence like 1 John 4 said right before he said there's no fear in love.

You're going to stand in confidence. That's the last verse I'll read. First John 4. Listen to how this says and then we can end. 1 John 4 13 we know that we live in him and he and us because he's given us his spirit then verse 16 says we know and rely on the love God has for us God is love whoever lives in love lives in God God in him in this way love is made complete among us watch this so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment because in this world we're like him that's what Paul was trying to that was his point and you really don't get it to you understand why he's using that perfect love that's coming from God and just filling you up that's pretty good stuff a preach chase we'll welcome the Holy Spirit rabbit holes through you any day and uh we'll try to flesh that out a little more as we continue our journey in john 11 next time on the show

Go love somebody in the name of Jesus. It's the greatest experience in life. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.