Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1134 | Uncle Si Thinks Heaven Will Turn Him Into Superman & Building Faith Worth Dying For

Episode Date: July 28, 2025

Uncle Si, Jase, Al, and Phillip explore John 12 and Jesus’ prediction of His death, highlighting that His sacrifice was a willing act of love, not something taken from Him. The guys connect this moment to Old Testament prophecies and how true kingship is revealed through surrender, resurrection, and victory over sin. Jase shares the chilling story of being threatened with death while preaching in Ukraine, leading into stories of modern-day believers who face persecution for their faith. Guest Todd Nettleton from Voice of the Martyrs joins to share powerful testimonies of Christians around the world who choose Jesus over fear. In this episode: John 12, verses 20–33; Romans 9–11; Isaiah 52, verse 13–15; Numbers 21, verse 9; 1 John 2, verse 1; Revelation 12, verse 11; Zechariah 9, verse 9; 1 Corinthians 13; 1 John 4; Ephesians 2, verse 6; Isaiah 53, verses 4–5— Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. Maddie, our wonderful producer, had a big idea. So since we just got here so fast, we decided a whole side. We did a podcast that seemed like five minutes. To us. But you listened, it was really an hour. It was really an hour, so just so you know.

But we decided to hold you guys over for a little bit of this, this next podcast because we felt like we got up to the pivotal moment that we've been talking about and that's the death of Jesus. So thank you all for coming back for a few more minutes. Because, you know, on our podcast, we just kind of, one discussion picks up from the next one. So like, Phil, you know, you and I may not talk for weeks, you know, but then when we talk, it's like we picked up the last conversation. Absolutely. Because you have a relationship and friendship.

And so in this, we're talking about Jesus predicting his death. and I had loosely mentioned it because I want to get into the name, meaning of names, that this really is a huge moment because when these Greeks, and these are, by the way, probably proselytized Greeks, in other words, they... Well, so they became, they were Gentiles, but they became Jews through a purification process. The only reason I think that is because they were there to celebrate Jewish holidays. Where is Zach, by the way?

I called you, Zah. Zach is on vacation this way. He's on the beat somewhere. So he'd be proud that you use the word proselytize. It's a hard word to say and spell, by the way. So they became Jews, but they weren't born. Right. A good example of a proselytized Jew is Rahab from Joshua 3.

Remember she was in Jericho, but she saved her whole family because she believed. Well, later she became part of the Jewish heritage because she was in the lineage of Jesus, you know, in the physical part. So there's a lot of examples of that. So that's who these guys probably were. So just like, Al, we're all, the Gentiles are all grafted in like wild olives anyway. Exactly, which is Romans 9, 10, 11. So this is a big moment because the Bible doesn't, John just mentions it in like two little verses in 20 through 22.

So there were some Greeks among those who went up to worship at the feast. This is John 1220. They came to Philip, and we talked about the lover of horses, who was from Besseda and Galilee with a request, sir, they said we would like to see Jesus. Philip went to tell Andrew, which means manliness, Andrew and Philip in turn told Jesus. And it doesn't say anything else.

And the whole thing we read last time and talked about was Jesus' response to that request. And it was interesting because the Bible all through the Old Testament, there's these little glimpses that show us that the Gentiles are going to have the opportunity. Isaiah 56 is a great one to show the idea that the gospel has always been more than for the Jewish people. I mean, you know, it came through the Jewish nation, but it's for everybody.

And aren't we glad it is? You know, 2,000 years later, here we sit, you know, as Gentiles, now in the kingdom of God because of these opportunities that were there. And so Jesus' response about the Son of Man, the Son of Man came for everybody. Not wanting anyone to perish, Peter said in Second Peter, two, so, and three.

So the idea is it was for all of us. And I just, this idea, he says the son of man must be lifted up, which again uses that same phrase theology. And the people asked when he said that, they said, well, who is the son of man? Yeah. In other words, it's back to that same question.

Yep. Who is he? Who is he? Who is the man? Yep. Now, we've talked about Jason's phrase before must be lifted up. And, of course, we know he's talking about he was lifted up on a cross, which was, you know, a public execution. come up with by the Romans to be the worst possible death you could do.

And it was really to shame someone as much as anything else. The idea was you don't want to wind out like one of these guys. You know, you're nailed to a cross, which is basically death by asphyxiation. Which a lot of religious people end at the cross, which is a mistake. You can't have the gospel without the resurrection. Exactly. So it's weird that you mention that. So a lot, he references Isaiah in chapter 12 a couple times,

and we can get into that at another podcast. Yeah. Because I did a whole thing on Isaiah, but I did want to read this one. In Isaiah 52 in verse 13, he says, See, my servant will act wisely. And he uses Israel as a nation sometimes in Isaiah, referring to the nation of Israel.

Right. Because they were under captivity, starts off with Assyria, and Assyria was famous for brutality and, you know, thank warriors and all that, and also Babylon. So he's writing to them saying, I'm going to give you comfort, but he's also giving you this foreshadowing that Jesus would come and be what Israel should have been as far as reflecting God's faithfulness and promise. So you have that going on in Isaiah, which is why it's difficult.

to read. But I think this is fascinating because when it says, see my servant will act wisely, he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted. Well, what does that sound like? I mean, how did Isaiah? So that's why the Bible is so fascinating. But just think about that statement. He'll be raised, lifted up. In this case, he has that raised and raised. And lifted up and highly exalted. I don't think you can take one without the other. So just remembering John 3, right before the most famous verse ever for God so love the world, remember the story about Moses lifting up the snake, the bronze snake in the desert?

What does he say about himself? Just like Moses lifted that, I will be lifted up. That's where he first gives us that little clue. But it's more than just the cross, even though that's one implication. and Jays is right, the resurrection and then ascension, because he was raised up, because he literally left the plan. Now you're back to that human in the presence of God and representing us. So just think 1 John 2, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense.

You know, what's he saying? Just the fact that he's there, a glorified human, in the presence of God, in our defense. There's a way to make it in the presence of God forever. And let's face it, Jay's. Why do we love Superman so much? Why do they keep making it? They just made the 14th Superman in my lifetime. So makes me nauseous.

Why do they keep doing it? You know why? Because he looks like a man, but he can fly. Yeah. Like, he just, there you go. He lifts up off the ground and takes up. They're like, come watch the man for $14. He's got a red cape, but he can fly.

Yeah. You know, he's not really from here. Well, no, because you think of that, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, Jesus ascended bodily and sat down at the right hand of the father. Yeah, and a cloud hit him from their sight because they were looking up saying, it's a bird, it's a plane. Nope, it's Jesus. He's at the right hand of the father.

But see, hey, here's back to about, okay, we could not look at God because we had die. Okay, well, Jesus came so that we could see God. Have that relationship, yeah. Okay, and now he's up there with the father, and every time I mess up. up. That's right. Jesus just points to the father and said, hey, put that on my towel. Father, forgive him.

Yeah. Look, I was reading that, Isaiah 52, and you literally just quoted the next verse. I read the part where it says he will be raised and lifted up. And then first 14 says, just as there were many who were appalled at him, his appearance was disfigured beyond that of any, you know, he was just beaten and tortured and put on a cross. So will he sprinkle many nations. there's your point about he wants everybody. Yep.

And kings will shut their mouths because of him. Because look, if you're a king who can't die, you're going to be able to overthrow every other king. Yeah, but watch. Look, but this last verse of Isaiah 52, for what they were not told, they will see. And what they have not heard, they will understand. That's what Jesus.

Jesus is saying, if you've seen me, you see him. They say us. Yep. And the reason why, and we didn't even read this section leading into it, because there's the triumphal entry, which was him coming in on the donkey. Right. As a king. But remember.

But that's a good thing to read. Zachari 9-9 says that. Exactly. It's predicted. And he quotes that. Right. But think about what he's doing. The son of man, he's a king, but he's a servant king.

So every time you read the son of man, what about it says the son of man didn't come? to be served, but to serve. So that's the part they did. They thought, well, I thought he's going to whip everybody. And he's like, oh, I'm going to whip everybody. Yeah, don't worry. If they don't trust in me. But I'm first displaying my love.

And that's why I think the Bible gets tricky. Because God does overthrow kingdoms who oppress people. Like the whole book of Revelation is about that, which we've documented. But no deed is loveless. it's all coming from God's love and look I want to read a verse before you come in well you said okay but that's why you got to three

faith hope and love okay greatest of these are love greatest one's love exactly and faith and hope are pretty good well you can't do without them you've got to have that you got to have faith and look at faith in the son of man yeah yeah well look

Isaiah 6 is quoted in in John 12 Well, have you read John Isaiah 6 lately? I want to read a verse and make a point that's hard to make, but I think we've gone here, so I want to. So in Isaiah 6, and they're under, I think at this time, Assyrian captivity, and he says, in the year of this king, he died,

I saw the Lord seated on a throne. So he sees another vision, which is not unlike Daniels, He sees the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of his robe filled the temple, which we've talked about all this temple language. He would become the temple in John 12. We would become the temple of God through his spirit. But watch.

Above him were seraphs, or seraphim, which are angels. They had six wings, and the wings covered their faces and their feet, and they were flying around. And they were singing, calling out to one another. their holy holy holy is the Lord God Almighty and all this next phrase is really baffling to people the whole earth is full of his glory and when I read that I thought you know people have a hard time with that they think well that because that causes questions well how could the whole earth be filled with God's glory if there's so much evil and so much pain and

but what I would suggest is that's what they were singing, and I know that to be true, and Isaiah wrote it down. So that's why I said, whatever happens, I know it's not a loveless act by God, because the whole earth is filled with his glory. And so then he goes on to say, you know, I am ruling, woe to me, because it scared him when he saw this vision. He's like, well, who am I to be representing you? and for I am a man of unclean lips because when you get this vision of God and him being in the midst of his enemies and offering his love well it makes you feel pretty sinful you know he's like well who who am i of unclean lips and my eyes have now seen the king lord almighty because he was saying i see him in a vision and so then it

goes on to say he said here i am send me and he's like go tell the people you know the people people because be ever hearing but never understanding, be ever seeing but never perceiving, make the heart of these people callous, make their eyes dull. And it's all these difficult passages that he mentions in John 12. But the whole point was for them to realize that he was who he is, and this is just not how you viewed God. Jesus had a new way of view in God. He became a human, and they couldn't wrap their head around it. And so what that did was it caused some of the Jews to rebel, but that rebellion caused some of the Gentiles to say,

hey, this is good news. God became a man, because they didn't have all the tradition and the heritage to keep them from seeing God becoming a man. Well, when I was getting ready for this, I read somewhere, and I can't find it now because I went everywhere. You know, it said God talking, that I've glorified. it and I will glorify it again.

Yeah, well, that was the voice of... That was the voice of Yahweh speaking... That's right after. Thundering to Jesus. Well, just read it. Just read it, read it, Al. I think he says it. Well, because I was wondering,

and when you say the glory of God, okay, I take that, you know, the creation. Well, here's what he said, size. So he says in verse 28, he said, Father, glorify your name. So he says that right after he tells exactly what's going to happen.

And he says that in response to him saying that he was troubled in his heart. It's almost like he's giving himself the peptop. And then he said, Father, glorify your name. In other words, I'm doing this because we're doing this. Then the voice came from heaven. I have glorified it and will glorify it again, meaning what? My name, because that's what he said, glorify your name. The crowd that was there heard it and said it had thundered.

others said an angel had spoken to him. So in other words, they knew it was something supernatural, but they didn't quite know what it was. Well, that should make you pause and say when God speaks something, and you think it just thundered, you've missed it, which I think that is his point in there. And he glorified him, but think of the other time that he spoke. Remember at his baptism?

Yeah. When Jesus received the Spirit? Right. Well, he was glorified, just like we are. Right. I think we get off on this because we have this narrative that Zach talks about that I agree with, this now but not yet, because we're glorified. When you get the Spirit, well, you have passages like Ephesians 2 that says God seated you with Him.

Yeah, at your conversion. And people are like, well, I haven't officially been seated. Well, from God's perspective, he just is. But from ours, we're like, oh, I have the Spirit. And, Cy, you're right. It is the creation, but Jesus is introducing a new creation. Well, no, no, because I've told people that. I said, hey, look, when I go to heaven, I'm going to ask Jesus, hey, look, can I take

about two years off and go to rest? See the rest of your creation? I said, because, hey, we just think it. Why not 2,000, say? I think he's going to. I think he's going to. I said, I've got to turn it to you. You're on the clock, sigh.

No, you know what I make a prophecy? I think he's going to say, hey, sigh, think bigger. Think longer, think bigger. You don't need oxygen anymore. You can go right into the outdoors. You don't need an atmosphere. No plane. No plane.

You're going to fly. You're a Superman. So when I was looking over this, it's so exciting. And before we leave Isaiah, I want to just say, 750 years before this took place, Isaiah is saying in 53, surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows. Yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten him by him. and afflicted, he was pierced for our transgressions, crushed for our iniquities. The punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds, we are healed.

And so what we're seeing, and when Jesus is riding in on that donkey, this is fixing to take place. Oh, exactly. And then I also, I was thinking about the nard that Mary poured on his feet, you know, and I thought, I started looking at that. And if you go back to the song of Solomon, that perfume is, talked about in there. It's like the finest of the finest, this perfume. Very expensive. Very expensive. And then also, while Jesus was going through all the things he was going through, the torture, getting beat, you know, and then even hanging on the cross, I wonder if he could smell that fragrance. Yeah. You know what I mean? That Mary had poured on it.

Well, and he even said she had it for the day of my burial, but then she was doing it ahead of time because she recognized a moment that was happening, which is why he loved her so much. You remember then he had that little spat with Judas about it, who was a follower of the evil one. And so you see that picture clearly. And I do want to bring that up because of the discussion for the rest of this podcast,

is that Jesus said, remember he said, now the plot is we're going to kill him because they're even rightly saying, one man needs to die so that we don't all die. That's what they kept saying. Well, they didn't realize why they were saying, that, but they were right. But you remember what Jesus said?

No one takes my life. To me, that's the catalyst. That's the catalyst. That's why that Isaiah said, we considered him like that. But he clarifies that when he got here. He's like, you know, God's not punishing me. I'm giving my life for you.

No one takes it. No one takes it. I'm giving it. This is a gift that I'm saying. Yeah, you couldn't take it if you wanted to. Right. But you know what that means? because I think the most important passage in this John 12 is when he says after he hears the voice

and he says now is time for judgment on this world now the prince of this world will be driven out but when I am lifted up from the earth will draw all men to myself well there's the love draw it's a draw of love that the same reason she poured out that perfume on him she realized he came here to give his life because that that's what I was trying to say when I said okay this this is the son of man look at all the times and what he faced knowing he fixed to die a horrible death

and he still does it yeah yeah and everybody's got this is this is not the son of God this is the son of God this is the son of man that sticks to do this. Well, it is the son of God, and it is the son of man. But in his humanity, he was filled with sorrow. And like Jason said many times on our podcast before, it's counterintuitive to look at a

situation and say a conquering king, the first thing they do is surrender their life. I mean, you were a military guy. You know, surrender is usually not the first thing we think of doing when we're in warfare. But in this particular warfare, when it came to sin. When it came to consequence, when it came to eternal life, we all have a fear of death. It's exactly what we had to have, a martyr of Lord. But that goes back to when I said, I want military on you. Jesus' mission.

His mission, that's what it was for. Exactly. For us. It was the only way we could survive. It was the only way we could come back to God. Yeah, exactly. Well, and it defined love for us, you know. Then you're getting back into those passages in Revelation where it's like they didn't love

their life to shrink back from death. But they, because really, if God's eternal. Well, that's why. And resurrection is viewed as a narrative that is now. It just is when you read it. I always tell everybody, I said, hey, look, a human being, a man will not die for a lie. He's not going to do it. He ain't got it in him.

Not purposefully. Not purposely. Yeah, that's a good point. And I said, and yet, hey, 11 out of the 12 did. die and they died Paul was crucified upside down Peter, I think

Yeah Well, yeah Peter They all caught it though Someway side But in a way They cut off Paul's head Yeah

Yeah Yeah, because that's one of the prayers That I say When I am really Tested Father and Son and Holy Spirit Give me the boldness

Yeah If a guy puts a pistol On my head 357 and says Hey you're going to deny Christ Christry, I'm going to blow your head I'll waste your bullet fool

I said because I got this to tell you I know the man that raises dead men Far away Well and everybody had their own agenda I mean think about it I mean because the humans were like Okay the Jews were like let's let's get Jesus in here Let's build up this physical kingdom

And we're fixing the whoop everybody right I mean and even Judas was like don't put that that the cologne perfume don't put that don't use that

let me have that money we'll do something else with it which maybe going his pocket he's going to be more suicidal I mean come on no but everybody had their agenda but Jesus had his agenda too and he wasn't going to turn back from that

well this young mayor had done something with the kids when he was at the church yeah white fairy Jays yeah when he was teaching He asked him, close your eyes and then tell me how do you picture God? What's your vision of you?

And it's a good question because that's what problem the humans have. Okay, number one, we can't look at the father because the light would be so, it'd kill us. So back to the mission, you know, the father gave Jesus, his son, the mission, hey, go down there and hey, here's what we're going. Here's the plan. Yeah. Picture, you know, an Israelite from Nazareth, who's a carpenter, just a young guy. That's some image that you should be getting that was representing the father. Yeah.

I mean, that is the vision. Well, I know, are you going to. No, I was going to wrap this. I thought, I thought this was when Philip, it triggered a thought that I think is just very profound, why people can't see this and everybody has their narrative. it's interesting that they want to kill Lazarus and they want to kill Jesus after this but in verse 19 of chapter 12

the Pharisees said to one another this is getting us nowhere but they make a statement that I think you know should really be pondered on they said look how the whole world has gone after him well that that is why he came It's like they see it but can't see it.

They see it as a negative. They're jealous. They're jealous. And this is what we want. So I think when you go through life just as a human being who claims to be surrendered to the king, you need the world coming after you in various ways. Good, bad and ugly, mad, glad, and sad. Thank you guys for coming back on for another half of podcast.

We're going to continue this discussion about persecution and martyrs. them for the rest of the podcast. Thank you all for being on. Thank you for having us. And that was an hour and 20 minutes or more. That's right. And you're ready to come back next up. Oh, I think so.

It's ready. All right. We're going to take a break. We'll come back. We'll talk some more about this. I don't know how to describe what just happened. We're recovering over a podcast and a half with my uncle. We had Uncle Salah in Phillip on.

But now we've brought some calmness and some integrity. And I don't know what all. We brought Todd Nettleton on. Todd, welcome to, Anishane. Thanks so much. Todd is a guy you've heard us talk about for on the podcast because we've done a lot of ads for Voice of the Martyrs, Todd, in your book, when faith is forbidden, 40 days on the front lines

with persecuted Christians. And so, first of all, just thank you and Voice of the Martyrs for partnering with our podcast, which has been a great pleasure. It's our pleasure. Thank you. And you may be the only sponsor we've ever had, Matti, I have to check me on this, that you are actually offering something to our listeners,

For free. For free. Which I love. Yeah. That rarely happens. It kind of reminds me of God's grace. Well, you know, we talk about the voice of the martyrs ministry to persecuted Christians in 70 plus countries. And yes, that is part of our ministry.

But part of our ministry is to American Christians to tell the stories so that we can know what's happening with our family around the world. And so we can be encouraged. When you read about someone who says, I would rather go to prison than deny Christ, the inevitable question in your own mind is, well, would I rather go to prison than deny Christ? And so that forces us. It blesses us. It encourages us. But it forces us to ask some hard questions.

Like where am I at in terms of what would I give up for the gospel? Well, when I first read your book, when we first got it to kind of prep ourselves for you guys being a sponsor on the podcast and a partner, yeah, I immediately always think of Revelation 1211, which is one of my favorite passages, that says. says we overcome the Eve one by the blood of the lamb, the word of our testimony, and the fact that we don't love this life so much we would shrink back from anything, even death or prison or, you know, there's other things too. And so it's always impacted me. And we've talked about this before, Todd. So I'm so glad you hear today that the idea that we understand martyrdom because it started

with our martyred king, Jesus. And we were just on the podcast with Simon Philip where you got here talking about how he said, no one takes my life, but I give it as a gift, you know, for you. And it became his way then to introduce the divine to humanity was the giving of a life, which then transforms us and, of course, shows us eternal life. And so it really is just a continuation of that. And you're right, I think as Americans, we sometimes don't realize what's going on around the world. And you have been around the world in many places, which was the point of this book. But tell us a little bit just so the artists can get to know you a little bit, because we had breakfast this morning,

so you told me a little bit of your story, but you know, you being a missionary's kid, kind of how that shaped you and all that. Tell a little bit about how that happened and how you came to Christ to begin with. Yeah, so I grew up my early years in Southern California. My dad was a pastor there, and when I was 12 years old, my parents felt the call to go to Papua New Guinea as missionaries. And I had one brother at that time. I have another brother since who was born in Papua New Guinea, but we kind of had a family conference like you do. Oh, hey, we think God is to Papua New Guinea. Where exactly is Papua New Guinea? I don't even know where that is. Just north of Australia. So it's in the South Pacific. And so they went around the family. Do you think

we should go? And yes, yes. And I was the no. I was like, nope, I'm getting ready to go into junior high. I can finally play sports at school. This is not a good time for me. Let's stay in California. is the worst time for any kid to be disrupted. I have to say that. Yes, there you go. So, but, you know, at the end of the day, and I said at the time, if this is what the Lord is calling us to do, let's go do that. And so we got on the plane, and like I say, I was not very excited about it.

So you're what, 12? I was 12. Okay. And we went and spent four years in Papua New Guinea, and it was hard. It was very hard when we moved. It was very hard when we came back to reintegrate into American society at 16. but as I look back on that now at 55, I see all the seeds that God planted in my life during those four years. And, you know, I wrote a book.

Well, in Papua New Guinea, we didn't have a television for four years. And so I learned how to read for pleasure. Like, that was my entertainment. Well, if you want to be a writer, you better be a reader. And so that seed was planted there. I love getting on a plane and going someplace I've never been before and figuring out, okay, you know, what do you eat? What do you not eat? How do you find a bathroom? All those things. I love doing that. That's an adventure to me. And that was, that seed was planted when we got on that plane and moved to Papua.

So Papua New Guinea was very isolated, like kind of cut off from the world kind of place? It was at that time. It is less so now. But it is, so Papua is half of the island. The other half is West Papua now. And I think it's part of Indonesia. But Papua New Guinea, if I'm remembering correctly, has 700 languages. So literally you would like go over the mountain range and there would be a new people group with a new language. And so there's lots of Bible translation. Very tribal setting. Kind of jungle setting? It's very jungley along the coast.

It's kind of mountainous in the middle, but also tropical. I mean, you know, rainy season it rained every day and the dry season it rained every other day. So it was never good. Did you learn what varmets to be afraid of? We lived in a city, so a city of about 13,000 people, and my parents were the missionary kid hostile parents. So the kids whose parents were in the bush, they came and lived with us during the school year.

So we had about 15 around our table most days. That sounds a lot like I were upbringing, Jason, out on the river. There were always a lot of people around our table, too. So, but like I say, so many seeds that God planted during those four years. And again, I didn't want to go. I was not excited about it, but God used that to plant seeds that now are bearing fruit for the kingdom. You were 12-year-old Jonah, but you finally got swallowed up and loaded in the belly of that plane. So were you introduced to the persecution there?

You know, one of the books I read there was about a persecuted Christian, actually from the Soviet Union, from Russia. And I remember that story. The other thing that my dad did super well is he would read to us. My brother and I, he would read us stories before bed every night. It was story time. He would read a book. And some of those books were the stories of missionaries and martyrs. And Bruchko is one.

I remember very well. A book called Lords of the Earth by Don Richardson. He read about Stanley Dale. And so from a very young age, it was heroic to me to be a missionary, to be a martyr. And so that's another one of those seeds that the Lord was planting, and now we see the fruit of that. But yeah, and those heroes, and when I get a chance to talk to parents now, I encourage them, hey, your kids are going to have heroes, and some of them are going to be great basketball players or great football players, and that's fine.

Make sure some of their heroes are gospel heroes, are people who sacrificed for the gospel, followed Christ wherever he called them. make sure your kids think that is heroic because that's going to impact them their whole lives. Yeah. Well, I remember when we were in school in the late 80s, Jason and I were in a school of preaching together. And Jason had come across Justin's Book of Martyrs somehow, somewhere. And I had never heard of the book. And he had—

I think I was just—we had to do chapel lessons. Yeah. And I was immature at that time of life. Because I was, we were so in the weeds of the Bible, but I was so thrilled with just the story of Jesus. And it just didn't seem thrilling. So I was trying to like, these people need to be more excited. And so I was like, this is good news. These people gave their life, you know.

I was looking at the end of their lives. Like, if we're going to be preachers, I want to be like these guys, which, like, led to them all but John being martyred, and he had multiple, he probably looked like, you know, scarface and he had endured being bold and old. I mean, just imagine what he looked like. And so that's how I discovered it, because I was like, I wanted to get the details. And so we would drive back and forth, and so we would practice our chapel sermons on each other, you know, to see how it worked. And so he was laying that on me. And I didn't. never heard of it, but it, talking about seed planning, it planted is something to me,

because Jace wound up going back to work for Duck Commander, and obviously our paths, you know, diverged, and I went up in full-time ministry at the church, but I never forgot about that concept of martyrdom. And so one of our dear little sisters at our church that has since crossed over, she came to me one day with one of, a VOM newsletter, Voice of the Martyrs, a little magazine, and she said, have you heard of this group? And I said, boy, what is a VOM? She said, the voice of the martyrs. I said, no.

And so then I listened to some radio, and then we wound up even hosting a conference here years and years ago. You and I talked to it this morning. And so I was intrigued, and I thought, man, I don't, I didn't realize, like most American Christians, I didn't realize what's going on around the world. And so it really impacted me in a powerful way. And it's always reminded me to pray for my brothers and sisters. And we were talking on a recent podcast about Israel and Iran and,

the conflict that's recently been happening in our culture. And we talked about the idea of looking at countries in different ways because the kingdom being there. And you and I talked about it quite a bit this morning. So you do a radio show as well. Yep. That's all across, which how would folks find? Is there just, VOMRadio.net is the website. You can find a radio station. You can find a podcast stream. You can access it multiple ways. So you, and you were telling me this morning about just having a guest on. So tell us a little bit about that, because it really, me, it's so, when you started telling me this morning, I thought, oh, man, that's just what we were talking about on the podcast was the idea about sometimes you look at countries as just the regime

that controls a country, and you forget about the people there. So tell me about the ones. Well, fastest growing church in the world is in the Islamic Republic of Iran. So this is good news. Fastest-est-ststowing church in the world. Did you know that? Islamic Republic of Iran. But I contributed in, or the Lord put me in a situation. where I got to speak to some underground churches via technology. When was that a couple of years ago? From Athens, Matt, too.

Yeah, from Athens. And it was very exciting. But I just wanted to say, for you, finish your story, they told me, oh, old Larry Bowes, and he said, no, you realize if you do this, you're probably going up on a bulletin board somewhere. And you were talking about planting seas, but it made me think, you know, I did start work,

working for Duck Commander, you know, after the school. But I did take one trip to the Ukraine in the early, I guess it was 1991. Right around 90, yeah, late 80s early 90. And I was kind of like your experience. I didn't really want to go. But I was like, hey, you know, the walls come down. These people need Jesus. So I went there.

And we were having little groups every night. And it was a whole, you know, three. weeks of handing out food. We got ways to handle the... You're trying to introduce small groups into a culture that where groups were outlawed because of communism. We did the same thing in Romania. So they were very nervous about meeting,

even though now they were free to do. Oh, it was. That's why I'm getting to this punchline story. But we also played basketball at a gym. They only had three gyms in the whole country, you know, and they thought we were... Because I looked like, you know, LeBron James to them, because none of them could play.

They just weren't very good. And we spoke at their English-speaking university, and we just shared Jesus. But they came to the class. It was full of standing room only every time because they wanted to hear, they were learning English. But then they realized, if you're from Louisiana, that's not necessarily the right way.

Anyway, that was kind of the ministry. But one night we were in a group, and so we're speaking through interpreters. and we had somebody show up that didn't like what we were doing. And he basically said, if you keep talking about this, you're going to wind up dead here. But he said that, and I was like, no, what did he say? And when the interpreter said that, he basically said, he says, if you keep preaching Jesus, someone's going to kill you here.

And I don't know, it was just like, it hit me like a ton of bricks. And I thought, well, do I believe this or not? Yeah. I mean, it was a really good question. And I said, well, you tell him, we're ready. We can't die. And just, I kind of got chills even saying that thing because I thought, this is real. I mean, this is part of the equation for following Jesus.

But I've always had an appreciation for people who go into those countries because you can say, oh, well, you know, nothing happened to you as good. But in the moment, I'm in a foreign country, and I'm being threatened here. and I've got to draw a line in the sand and we're drawing it. Yeah. I so appreciate our VOM staff that do that all the time. And we're also very conscious, though,

that the risk for us is less than the risk for our brothers and sisters that we're meeting with. Because, you know, I have a blue passport and I have a ticket home. Right. They're still going to be there. Exactly.

And so it takes a lot of courage for them even to come and meet with us. Like you said, to gather together. But so we just had Sister Neda on VOM radio, and she lived in Iran, grew up in Iran. She actually married the goalkeeper for the national soccer team. So he was very well known.

His family was very devout Islamic family, but their marriage was in shambles. It was really heading in the wrong direction, and she was frustrated. And she said she would turn on her vacuum cleaner so that no one would hear her, and she would vacuum, and she would yell at Allah. She'd really like, Allah, I've been following you,

my marriage is in shambles. You're not helping. helping me, when are you going to show up in this? And just really frustrated with Islam, which is very common in Iran. The government of Iran says, we're running our whole country, according to Islam. And you have one of the highest drug addiction rates in the world. You have an economy that's in shambles. And the people of Iran are like, well, if this is what Islam does, you know, this is not working very well. So NATO's in that boat. She's frustrated with Islam. about the time she's running her vacuum and yelling at Allah, one of her relatives who lived in Europe

and had come to faith in Christ had a dream. And God said, go back to Iran and share me with your family. And so he got on a plane, flew back to Iran, which is, as a Christian, is a dangerous thing for him to do. Neda talked to him, and he led her to faith in Christ. And her heart was changed. So much so. Now, she didn't want to tell anyone this because her husband's from this devout Islamic family, like, what are they going to say? This is going to not be good for me. But about two or three weeks later, her husband looked at her and said, what happened to you?

Like, you have totally changed. And she said, he actually said, did you become a Christian or something? Yeah. And she said, you know, I didn't want to deny Christ. And so she's like, yeah, I did. I became a Christian. I'm following Jesus. And within a week, he also had come to faith in Christ.

They began ministry, underground evangelism. even out on the streets of Angelism, very bold. One of the things she talked about in the interview was dealing with the fear, especially as a woman. It is common in Iran if you're arrested, sexual assault, sexual abuse happens in the police station, in the jail. And so she said there was that fear of what's going to happen. Like, I'm doing something that I know is going to end up with me being arrested, and I know what happens to women who are arrested. but she talked about how God relieved that fear from her. And one of the ways he did that, interestingly,

was with a story of a persecuted Christian that she read, that actually VOM had been able to publish and print in Farsi. And so she read the story of this persecuted Christian who was courageous, even though they were fearful. And she said, that encouraged her. That was one of the ways God took away the fear. And she said over about a two-year span, the fear was completely gone. And she would just do the ministry.

and like I say, they're out on the street, they're talking to people, they're striking up conversations. That's a good way to get arrested in Iran. Earlier this year, they finally had to flee. They finally got to the point where it was kind of closing in, and it's like, okay, we better go. So they are now, she's in America and still doing ministry back into Iran. You mentioned technology. They're using technology to still do that ministry. But just an amazing testimony. And I love that we get to share this on VOM Radio, because people are, you know, people like you and me, they're driving in their car and they're hearing this testimony from Iran. And then the next time Iran comes on the news, they'll think just what you said.

They say, oh, wow, I have family in Iran. I have brothers and sisters that live there. Well, I mean, when you say that, you know, everybody, we're all mindful of, you know, destroying Iran's nuclear capabilities. And everybody's like, oh, look at this power. And it's great. we don't want them blow up the whole world. But real power is what you just described. We have a message that literally changes the hearts and minds of people.

Because then you don't have to worry, oh, what if they build it again? You know, what Jesus has to offer is the greatest power. That's why when we talked about the kingdom earlier before you got here, we were talking about when Jesus, or one like the Son of Man, would set up his kingdom and it would crush all other kingdoms. It itself would endure forever. forever. And that's what I think. Well, we're part of the greatest kingdom. The world has ever known, Jesus's kingdom, and it has that power to transform hearts and minds, and I'm glad

we're a part of it. Well, in Christianity, even from the first century forward, the beautiful thing about reading the Bible, is you see all of our early fathers and the faith, all the disciples, and then those that they touch, were living this life that you're describing that you've seen around the world. And what did Christianity do in that first? century under this Roman rule and this also Jewish persecution. It thrived. It exploded. It went everywhere. And you remember in Acts 8, I mean, the minute they killed Stephen, it exploded even further because it kept pushing them out. And so because once it's in your heart, it never changes. And the sister you described, she understands being set free now. And so she

wants as many people as possible that she loves to be set free. So, but I think it forces us to think about this when we look at geopolitical stuff that's going on, that God's working all around. And so that's what I love about your book. So your book is basically your 20 plus years with VOM and the places you've been. And you kept a journal and you have a lot of that in the book, which I found fascinating when I read it. And it really just tells a lot of stories of a lot of people, right? I mean, that's pretty much how you do. The premise of the book, you know, often I would go on a trip, I would sit down with persecuted Christians and hear their stories. And I would come back and in my Wednesday night Bible study or in my Sunday school class, I would say, oh, wow, I just got back

from Eritrea, and I met this pastor, and somebody would say in the course of that conversation, man, I sure wish I could go with you on a trip. So that's why I wrote the book. The book is an invitation. Yes, come with me. Let's take a trip together. Let's spend 40 days. Every day we're going to sit down with a persecuted Christian. We're going to hear their story. And my promise to you, the reader, is on day 41, your faith will look different than it did when we started the trip. because you can't spend 40 days hearing stories of people who got beaten up or they had a family member killed or they were locked in prison and they still joyfully serve the Lord. If you spend 40 days hearing a story like that every single day, again, day 41,

your faith is going to look different because you think differently, you pray differently. When you open your Bible, you say, wow, this is an amazing privilege. There's brothers and sisters who don't have Bibles. And I have multiple Bibles on my phone. So everything looks different after you spend time with our persecuted brothers and sisters. And I go, I'm an American Christian. I've never been persecuted. Nobody's ever put a gun to my head.

So I go as a learner. I go and I want to bring you along on that trip. And there are journal entries. I typically journal in the early years. I journaled as a gift to my wife when I would come home from a trip. I would hand her the journal. And that was the way she. could experience the trip as well. So those journals came in very handy writing the book.

There's journal entries of great spiritual import and impact. There's journal entries about how much I don't like squatty potty. There's a lot of variety in these journal entries. Because we all have those stories. So I'm wearing a hat that you gave me today because we love hats here. I'm not ashamed. And it says smuggler on here. And I have been a smuggler because I've been on many, many mission trips, and I've taken stuff into countries for people I love that may or may I could get it any other way, including Bibles. Tell about this, the hat, because you tell about it that. Yeah, so the Bible smuggler resources from Voice of the Martyrs, when you buy that hat, when you buy a T-shirt, there's actually a Bible smuggler Bible you can buy as well.

Part of the funding that you've just given for that hat funds a Bible to be smuggled into a hostile area or restricted nation. So when you put on that hat, you are a Bible smuggler because you funded a Bible to be delivered. And Voice of the Martyrs the last several years has delivered over a million Bibles a year to places where you can't, there is no Walmart, there is no Bible bookstore. And so this is a way. This is clever. Yeah, this is a way for you to be a Bible smuggler. And every product you buy is funding a Bible to be delivered on the other near the line. And can you get to that through VOM's website? Yes, Bible smuggler.com is the website. Bible smuggler.com, all that Bible smuggler product is there. And you know, you buy a hat, you buy a t-shirt, that's two Bibles. And we don't understand how valuable these Bibles are. Like most of us have multiple Bibles on the shelf. We have a Bible. On your phone. Yeah, on your phone. I've talked to brothers and sisters who say, I prayed for 10 years that I might be able someday that God would allow me to have my own copy of the Bible. That's a different perspective.

That's exactly. The reason why your ministry, I think, is from the Lord and needed is because when you hear these stories, just like when I went to Ukraine, I mean, you can't help but say, man, I'm just pathetic. You know, because I think the great. That's not the goal. Well, I think it's a good thing. You look at yourself and you realize, you know, our biggest problem, I think, in America,

from an evil one perspective of temptation is comfortability. You know, you're comfortable. You don't want to get out of your comfort zone. And it's kind of like the separation of church and state. It's okay for you to believe. Just don't... Keep it to yourself. Yeah.

Don't make any hay. And you know that's from the evil one because our whole mission is to declare Jesus as Lord. That's why we're here. And so I think a little bit of that is needed and good, and it makes you appreciate what we have. The danger for most of us in sharing the gospel with our neighbor is an awkward conversation.

Yeah, exactly. Like, worst case scenario is this conversation is going to get a little awkward. My neighbor's going to stop waving to me when they pull out of the driveway. Probably they're not going to beat you up. Almost assuredly, they're not going to shoot you. And we need that inspiration to say, hey, even if they did shoot me, it would be worth it to share the gospel with them. But as an American, that's probably not going to happen. Yeah, when your worst persecution is a bad social media post, you know, we're not quite there with the rest of the world.

Todd is so good having you on the podcast, and I appreciate what you do. And we just want to thank you for partnering with us with what we're doing because so many people are listening to Unashamed podcast because of our intensity about the Bible. And so, you know, we go together with what you guys are doing. Well, we appreciate you guys too. And I'd love for people, more people to get the book, not because I wrote the book, because they get to meet persecuted Christians. And that's really what Voice of the Martyrs is about is developing that fellowship in the body of Christ. And getting more smugglers. More smugglers.

Come on, Unashamed nation. I'm going to get one of those hats just for a conversation piece and say, I'm a smuggler. And they're like, what do you smuggle? Well, I'm fixing your Jesus. There you go. Just like the gospel. Oh, look. You've already, Maddie's got you with.

Oh, there we go. Boy, she got fired up. All right. Well, we'll see you down the road. I keep doing what you're doing, brother. Thank you. Tell everybody at VOM. We said, hey, check them out, Unashamed Nation.

voice of the martyrs. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.