Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1141 | Jase Tackles a Tough Question About Alcohol & Substance Abuse

Episode Date: August 8, 2025

Jase poses two big questions from listeners: Is Jesus truly God, and why did He turn water into wine? The guys dive into the biblical perspective on alcohol, emphasizing self-control and grace rather than prohibition in many cases, and recommend that Jesus always be at the center of any discussion on difficult subjects. They explore the symbolism behind the water-to-wine miracle at the wedding feast, highlighting the arrival of God’s kingdom and the new covenant. In this episode: Genesis 1, verses 1–3; John 1, verses 1–14; John 6; John 13, verses 1–17; Exodus 11–13; Ephesians 5, verses 18–19; Galatians 5, verses 22–23 —  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. Still down here at the Southern Lair. Zach still coming in from North Carolina. Jace is all alone in the Unashamed studio. Jase, I noticed, so the last time we did podcast, which for us is a couple of days, you know, the audience, they kind of keep rolling out.

So you were making one of your sale points. You had done a deep dive on. something and I was tracking with you, you know, interested in everything you were saying. And you and I both noticed we look in our little boxes because we're all little squares, you know, looking at the monitor. And Zach is in the middle of like a big yawn. Like whatever you're saying, it was sleepy time. I actually was saying the aspect of time in the Bible in the New Testament uses two different words.

and one of them is what is the significance of the time. And I was literally making the point, this should be thrilling, that we're not just letting time pass us by, or all the idioms that, you know, I'm wasting time or doing time. I mean, all these little slogans that we have, I'm like, for us in Jesus,

the time we spent has significant value, only to the planet, but for all of eternity. And it wasn't that I noticed it out. I heard even, and look, I don't, it's hard to make me angry. I was hot. I looked at Maddie. So when you're on your eyes. I said, well, I mean, look, I mean, that's a young man's game. I got a four-year-old at the house that's keeping me up at night. I've got all my kids in from car it's just i'm not sleeping well but hey and this is not a promotional for any particular thing but i do have this on set today and i's got the monster drink jays uh that's that's why i noticed this because we that was one of the last conversations we had off camera

and i noticed he had the giant energy drinks well you know when i was in westman road we were uh i think we've told you all we're doing uh we have a fifth episode coming out on august 29th we're to start adding a fifth episode with Hillsdale College. We're actually taking a course on Genesis. And so we have a Christian, Sadie's husband, and then John Luke are doing it with us. And so they come in, Duck Commander, and I've been so tired lately

because I've been just running like crazy. I had a monster energy drink, and I walked by, and Christians, who is the help not, he looks at me and goes, Monster energy drink. I said, yeah, he goes, huh. And just, it's interesting. Yeah, interesting. I know some of you

probably are judging me right now, I think, you know, especially those are horrible for you. And I know they are, but, Jace, I want to please you. So I will not be on in today because I have this. Since you brought it up,

when does that Hillsdale, does that, that August 29th is the first episode. Yeah, you can go to, if you want to, so if you want to sign up because you can take the courses for free,

I'm actually, they're really good. We just started doing it, Genesis. We're going to do Genesis. I think six, lectures on the book of Genesis. But you can go to

Unashameforhillsdale.com and you can sign up and take... What I hope you'll do is like take the course with us. Yeah. And if you, in that way, each episode on Friday, Hillsdale or Friday, will be us discussing the content, which was really

good. It was really, the professor that does it is fantastic. And, you know, what's interesting, Zach, I kept thinking about our mentor, my mentor, especially Bill Smith. You always used to tell me, don't stop studying. And, you know, I've taught Genesis several times. I'm very intimate with the book in terms of knowing the themes of it.

But, you know, anytime you listen to someone else teach, you learn something you didn't know. That's true. Dr. Jackson is the guy's name. But it's well worth taken. It's free, which is fantastic. So I definitely encourage you to follow us along. I think you're going to love it. But, Jace, I won't be yawning today, okay?

That's okay. I apologize. My therapy, the last two days since I've seen you, because your name comes up, because you're in our family. And so people's names come up. So I referred to you the last two days to my lovely wife as the yawner. The yawner. And so then I got to tell her the story.

Of course, it's so funny. There was the I row. I guarantee you that I'd tell you about my wife. She's always going to take my side, So which is, you know, that's good. We're married. She's, we're one. And I think her line was, that's ridiculous.

How embarrassing for him. I said, well, nobody saw it. I said, nobody saw it because he, his whole point was, well, when the camera shot is on you, they're not looking at me, but I was like the morale factor at that moment, which made me think we need a yawning button. I wonder, because we get these little appliances from our local dollar generals from people who listen. And that would be, I don't know if they have a yawning button or not. All right, Unashamed Nation, you've been giving a challenge.

Find us a yawning sound. Yeah. Because I would use it when people start arguing about things that are not related to the Bible being about a person or Jesus, specifically, where they got all worked up. and it has nothing to do with anything significant, speaking of that time aspect. And so, okay, it would be fine to press the yawning button. But that was my point. That was like the exact wrong time to be.

But you can't choose when you yawn, though. That's the thing. And it has less to do with the moment you're in and more to do with the moment you came out of. And so the moments that I came out of were moments, where I have not been sleeping. You know, it's just chaos. You know, I guess with all I've read it.

It's like me. The night before I'm going to do podcasts, I don't schedule anything. Therefore, I can have a good night's sleep, so I'm not yawning. You don't, well, when you got a four-year-old, you don't schedule when they're going to be up. Well, I have four of them under four in various times. So I get it. I understand that. I feel like I should get out my little mini violin and start playing them, man.

Well, I'm kind of on a, I mean, it made me change my pattern. Usually I studied the night before I didn't last night because I was involved in so many other Bible studies. Yeah. And they just kept it through text. And one of them's a new Christian. I think I told his story. He's 18. But the other guy who was on our podcast, maybe seven, eight podcasts ago.

Blake? Yeah. Blake Cook, yeah. Because I was so impressed with him, but he's basically a new Christian. He's only been in a couple years. And when we finished, he's like, man, I learned more in that little session just from going through a few Bible verses. And I was like, you need that Bible as a foundation. I mean, I get it. It's about Jesus and you're all in on Jesus. So we started a Bible study. And so I was like, read the book of John, which we're doing that in the podcast. But we have a propensity to get deep in the weeds, but we're doing that because the first time we studied, John, what would you, how would you describe it, Al? The difference in then and now. Well, I think just probably the depth of us doing all the other Gospels and the Old Testament, what happens is when we come circle around six years later, I just think there's a deepening of the, we've dug a lot deeper into the entire Bible itself and this theme of Jesus. So, I mean, it's definitely richer and better from my perspective, both on the teaching side

of the learning side. So it's, it's. Well, we're also connecting. Yeah. Jewish history, the Old Testament fulfillment. Yeah. Which even like where we're at right now, John 13, it says, you know, he specifically starts that off by saying it was the time of the Passover.

and well he's doing that on purpose well if you don't know what the Passover was about yeah and you know you you go to i think it's exodus probably chapters 11 through 13 there yeah where it discusses that then it's gonna you're gonna be limited in understanding how powerful what jesus did i just think when you look at at the details because it was basically Israel's liberation. And think about the liberation that Jesus is offering now from sin itself and death, not just because some nation has control over you. I mean, that would be horrible.

You'd be oppressed and you'd be very thankful if you were liberated from that. But we're talking about sin and death itself and the evil powers that are against us. Yeah, and you know, Jay, as I was thinking about, when we did your lovely wife and I think it was Lindy and maybe some other people collaborated maybe 10 or 12 years ago they did a they wrote a sort of drama slash musical project called the Crimson Gospel and I helped a little bit on the project and because I was kind of tying in some of those pieces but the idea that there's a picture and it really starts back in the garden but then it goes through the Passover, through Rahab with the scarlet cord,

and all throughout Jewish history, you just see these little glimpses of this. And the idea was this color red, which ultimately would describe the blood of Jesus, which really saves the entire planet. But the pictures of it are all throughout. And so that whole musical, which we all went down to Orlando and some very famous, really good Christian artists, performed that thing. You remember that, Jay's? And it was super powerful. But I just love the idea. There's so many different ways to tell this story and these stories that they're just rich. Every time you get into it, it's rich, you know, because it just, it brings, to your point,

it brings Jesus out every time. Well, I agree. And in view of Zach's yawning and these two questions, the first two questions, so that's what I did with one of these brothers here. I was like, read the book of John. I mean, they're both doing this at the same time, but one of them's ahead of the other. So they read the book of John and just ask yourself a question, who is Jesus? Who is this Jesus?

Have that vein. Of course, what happened was in both cases, well, they start reading it, and since they don't know the history or the big picture is what I'd like to call it, they get distracted by the story, the small things that they don't understand. And so here was his questions.

He was like, I'm six chapters deep in the book of John. I have two questions. What does it mean that Jesus is the Word? Ah. And that he was with God and was God. Is Jesus God? Well, when I read that, that's the first question asked three different ways,

but I thought, well, I figured you would have got that. You know, I mean, we did a podcast, because he's listening to the podcast too, and I think there's a danger when you get kind of so deep into things, you just kind of miss some of the simpler. Yeah, what was that? What does that mean? And so the second question, you'll get a kick out of this.

I thought you'd get a kick out of this, which I love that first question. That's a great question. But now, just think about it. How do you respond to that in a text? I was about to say, this sounds like a conversation. Well, I'll tell you, after I sent my text in response, I said, I'm normally not this long-winded, which may or may not be true. I said, but that was a hard thing to explain.

The second question, because he got this from John 2, if alcohol is bad and drunkenness is a sin why did jesus turn water into wine so others could continue to party and get drunk that's a good question that's a good question so those were the two questions so i thought i would get your opinion in how to answer that in the spirit of not being yawners or to grasp the big picture So what say you? And I'll give you my response. On the alcohol question first? Well, either one.

I think they're a good question. Well, the alcohol question, alcohol is not bad, clearly, because Christ did, I mean, I think that's a good text. So Paul's there, because when I got to the second question, I said, here's the short answer. Alcohol is never said to be bad in the Bible. All right? So continue. We have that exactly.

I said the same thing. All right, go ahead. drunkenness is is considered a sin. All right. Well, my second sentence was getting drunk is always bad. But there are many substances that you can get drunk on. Yeah. Because I was giving him a subliminal message.

It's not just alcohol. Yeah. You can get the right kind of mushrooms. Marijuana mushrooms. I mean, there's all kind of ways. Prog poison. Prescription drugs are as big a problem as anything. Let me tell you, from what I've heard,

you can drink enough Nykel, which I guess that is alcohol. But, you know, cough medicine, whatever. But be careful of that because that'll ruin your liver

because it's got acet of cinnamon in it. Michael does. Be careful. You get Tylenol overdose. Okay. Dr. Health. Yeah.

See, that would have been a perfect place for a yawn. Yeah. Acetaminopin. Well, as he sips on this giant monster energy trachies.

Oh, it's because I've been shamed. I've been shamed by Jace. But the same guy that half the time I'm talking, he's looking at his phone. He says he's looking up a scripture. I don't know if I believe that. I think he's got ongoing Bible studies now with all these.

He might, they. Yeah. So I'd then put on the alcohol question, I put, I think Ephesians 518 and 19 is a pretty good picture of the question you're asking, which is don't get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Yeah, that's a good verse.

you know, but instead be filled with the spirit, sing, make music in your heart, you know. So, and then I put Galatians 522, I put not getting drunk as a fruit of the spirit. Galatians 522 has self-control as a fruit of the spirit. So basically you see what I was saying, which I think is an interesting word. You have the spirit, but one of the fruits of the spirit is self-control. because everybody's like, well, there's nothing you can do. There's not. Self control is a fruit of the spirit.

You have an opportunity not to get drunk to exercise self-control because of the spirit of Christ that's in you. Now, now, I think this is the funny part of what I said. However, after all of that, what Mee and Zach just basically said, this has nothing to do with John 2, nor is it the point. No, that's correct. whatsoever. Jesus is revealing a picture of who he is and what he's going to do, which was my original question in why you should read John. But I get it. I asked the same question when I was two years

in the faith, because I'm like, what's this changing the water to wine? We, we as, I think, especially in America, tried to make everything apply to us, and we kind of look at the Bible, which I went on to say this in my text, as a rule book. Just like we're taking a college exam, read the book of John and ask me any questions. He's like, well, here, you know, since I've had a problem with alcohol in the past,

this just seems like something that's not good. So why was that in there? I would advise Blake or anybody, because Blake, I mean, he shared his testimony pretty openly. Yeah, I don't think. I don't think he shouldn't touch it. at all. I mean, so there's people that I would say, hey, you probably shouldn't touch that stuff because you got a history with it, and you didn't really learn how, you know, maybe

stay away with that for a while. I agree with that assessment. And also, if, I mean, I wouldn't, I wouldn't have a drink around somebody that I knew had an issue with it. Yeah. Yeah. I've said before many times. I mean, I'm, I'm like the poster child for, you know, controversy on that because, I mean, I don't think drinking's wrong. And I've, never been drunk. I mean, I could, I would be one who could make a case. Hey, you should never do that because I've never had a problem with that, you know, but I don't because the Bible says the exact opposite. I mean, you remember the passage in Timothy where he's like, I hear you're having stomach problems, you know, drink a little wine and that, that'll help you out or

it's somewhere in Timothy. But, uh, yeah, but that's not the point. My, my, my, what I want to, I think this is an interesting conversation. That's not. what that's about. Yeah. Whatsoever. Which I think that's such a smart point because you properly showed that when any of us, especially come out of the world, this situation, in other words, we didn't just kind of come to fade through our youth, but lived a time among the world and, you know, had some of these same things that you read about, some of the New Testament conversions. And obviously, you're looking at everything through that lens. I'm trying to stop doing one thing

to start doing something different. But the more you get to know this Jesus and what he is really not only offering you, but what he's given you, that you just hadn't realized the gifts yet, the more that becomes part of your walk and your existence, your day-to-day, it becomes not the do and don't do, but this is who I live for. So I think you're properly showing the process that happens. And that's this idea of discipleship. And you also have the, I mean, you get these Old Testament passages about,

like in Psalms that wine makes the heart merry. The context of the ceremony that they're in as a wedding, right? So there's a celebration aspect of it. There's joy. This isn't like a bender fraternity party where everybody's just, you know, funnling beers till they're just completely blitzed. That's not the scene. This is a celebration of a union.

And so I think that the story, too, of this, of Jesus turning water into wine is directly connected to the new wine that Jesus says he's bringing. The kingdom is breaking in. So it's no accident that he's doing this miracle making new wine at a wedding ceremony, right? Because we're the bride of Christ. There's all kind of imagery here that's being played out. And so I think this is not a text. Good point, Jay.

It's not a text on a for or against alcohol consumption. it's bigger. So I mean, it just kind of was an awakening for me having these conversations because I'm like, man, we're talking about all this stuff. And it's not resonating. And just like what you just said, we're participating in the greatest party of all parties in Jesus. This is a way greater party and has nothing to do with being drunk. it's way better than that, which is what people, that's what they're drawn to.

They're like, oh, we're just going to be free, party, get hammered, and do whatever our instincts tell us to do, and then wake up, recover a day or two, and then do it again, and call that living in life. And so I think within the grand scheme of God, the earth, the planet, human beings, eternity, I mean, here you have this story. And what should be being revealed to you when you hear the story of Jesus is, wow, I'm a part of this global purpose of God. And like there, I eventually am married to Jesus. You know, and I got into the passages in Ephesians 5. You know, we were talking about husbands and wives, but he used to the end.

he's like, but I'm talking about you in Christ. You're married to Christ, which is what he's introducing here. You're part of the greatest party ever. And the other point, if you want to get into it, but that's what I did was give the overview of what he was pointing to. And I actually used our reference that we used a lot of his podcast about the time thing, because that's where he first said, my hour has not come. He said that to his mom at the beginning of the wedding.

venue. And so I explained that. I was like, Jesus is going to predict and always go back to that segment of him being born of a woman, being baptized, humbling himself, receiving the spirit, and then doing all these great things to humanity, all these displays of God's character. You know, I talked about the life, love, light, and just healing. showing compassion, forgiving sins. And then he's always pointing to his death, the defeat of his enemies, his resurrection, proof of the resurrection. Then he poured out his spirit.

He went to the father. That process of when he said, yeah, being glorified. Well, he poured out his spirit in Acts 2. When the spirit of God came down in tongues of fire and the whole, we've talked about this before, it's the rectifying of the Tower of Babel story because people could hear each other talking in their own native tongues.

But what do the people around them think they were? They thought they were drunk. And so you get decided... That's a good point. That's a good point. What are these guys up to? What kind of wine are they on? It's the new wine.

And so you see in the story of Jesus turning the water into wine, it's the breaking in of a new reality into our space, right? A new reality is coming in. So one way you could look at it is the old law is the water. And then the kingdom of God is the new wine, which is breaking into our story now. And you really see it in Acts 2.

I mean, that's like because the spirits come then. Now, then it's like on. I mean, then it is on after that. Well, in which to Jason's point, Joseph's point, Ephesians 5, that's what Paul makes that distinction. He's like, look, you know, you want to replace the spirits, you know, whether they're evil spirits or the spirits, you know, that you find in a bottle. Replace it with the Holy Spirit, then you really got a jackpot party going on. This is true jackpot. Exactly. And we're kind of burying the lead, which I put in my

text response. I was like, I think you're taken too lightly that there was a human being on the planet claiming to be God that changed water to wine strictly because of a thought. Yeah. He willed it. He didn't like come up with some concoction. He just did it. I was like that kind of being that's a human who can make that kind of change with the physics involved that's impossible just to, you know, not even have to blink.

well, he's giving you a picture. If you want to know how to change something, I'm your guy. You know? Yeah. I mean, how many people in their life, all of them, at some point said, boy, I wish I could make this change or do something different. Well, I know a guy who's really good at changing stuff. And he literally can go outside the laws of nature.

themselves. And so I think that's what I'm trying to say is not, I mean, I'm using his vulnerability and being young in the faith, because I was exactly in the same point. I've had more arguments about John too, or whether it was, you know, some people say, well, I don't even think that was fermented one. Yeah. Yeah. It's all these arguments come out. And I'm like, meanwhile, we've missed the exciting big picture of what's happening here and how you can be involved in the scheme of God's redemption. But you get an agenda that you're trying to hold to because you have a way you think the world should be,

and then you start looking at the text, you start having to read into that text, which to say that is, I think, to read into the text to say it wasn't fermented, and it misses the big point. Well, think about this. You start making stuff up. Think about this.

Think about the faith of his mother. How many times it's your mom says, hey, you need to make some wine? I mean, his mom believed in him enough. She said, do something about this wine situation. I mean, that blows me away that she had enough faith in who he was in the moment to think he could do something, which he did. Which he did. And so I realized I've hijacked the podcast, what we're going to do. with these two questions.

But I just think, you know. What was the first question? Well, it was about the word. And look, I really struggled in how to make that short. But what I did was, I did the same principle. I said, well, let's just think about the overall view. And I told him, I know y'all have been studying Genesis in your other podcast. I said, go read the first three chapters of Genesis.

right now because John 1 starts saying in the beginning was the word and I said find the word in Genesis 1 through 3 well I realized that sounds easy if somebody has taught you but you know it was more difficult than I thought because I was thinking he would notice like as soon as it starts off in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth and then it's like And God said, let there be light. Well, when you say something, what do you use? Words. That's kind of where I was going.

And I even mentioned, I gave a few hints when you get, and he says it all over the place. He kept saying, and things kept happening. He'd say things kept happening. Well, now we have two humans, and what did he do to them? He told them something. Well, what did he use? Words. He said, don't eat of that tree, eat of this tree?

Well, then, don't you find it interesting? What was the first thing the evil one says? Did God really say? Did God really say? Yeah. So why is God using words? And who is that word where that's coming from? Yep.

Well, in the beginning was the word, the word was with God, the word was God. I just think that was the communication aspect of the Godhead, the son. He just hadn't become flesh, and I had that down. First 14, now he became a human. And verse 17 says he explained God because no one's ever seen God. Well, that's what words do. The word became flesh to explain. So that's where I went.

But when I got to the end, I thought those words that God spoke, which led to him choosing a nation, Israel, to be his representation to other nations. And God spoke words to him. He gave them a promise of blessing or a promise of curse. And what was the catalyst for that, the result of that? Either you trust what I say or you don't. And so then the word becomes flesh. So not only did Jesus use words, he lived it out.

He lived the words. So that explained God, which is how the word become flesh. But it's still the same agenda. Are you going to trust Jesus, who is the word of God saying, trust what I say? Because if you think about it, if I'll just make a blanket statement, if you would trust what God says, no matter whether he said it from the father, using the son as the voice in the Old Testament, or whether he's saying it in Jesus as a human,

nothing bad would ever happen to you. Nothing. If you just trusted him, every time he said something, you're like, you know what I'm going with it well what bad could happen to you nothing and you say well sure there's going to be bad things that happen well your sins forgiven you can't die what what other problem can we come up with you're like well somebody else you know die well you're going to see them again or evidently not know about it so you know I just that's the that's the angle I went But think about it, Jay's even the written word, Peter makes the claim that the Holy Spirit was engaged and involved in that.

Men spoke these prophecies as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. So even that nature of the word, the written word, because we have the spoken word, the revelation, remember from one was one. And then we have the written word, which is thousands of years of history that sinks up the perfect story about the perfect man. and those men were carried along by the Holy Spirit and women who share that story over time. So it keeps coming back. Remember John we read in the last podcast, John 15, 3, I think it is, when Jesus told the disciples, he said, you've been cleansed by the word I've spoken to you, which is in the context here of what he's talking about, this cleansing because he's doing this washing of their feet.

But the word has always been there. And it is. It's so central to every. thing. But what happens in John is that that word becomes flesh. And I think what is interesting about those two questions is that they're deeply, deeply connected, actually. Understanding Jesus is the word and then this whole idea about why did he turn water into

wine. If you think about, there's a documentary film that you should watch, I love it, I watch it probably 10 years ago, maybe 15 years ago, called For the Life of the World. letters to the exiles. It's super. I mean, this thing is so well done. It's kind of like a weird, artsy film, but it's written, and based off of John 6th,

when Jesus says, I give my flesh for the life of the world, it's what we talk about on this podcast all the time that Christ didn't just save us from our sin. He also saved us to life. And so when you watch this documentary, it's like a story, and this guy's like going around, he's asking these questions about, you know, reality, about the purpose.

of life and every expert that he asked a question to, they'll say, well, let's go, go down the hardware store with me. I got to get some stuff. And they're talking the whole time. You don't really understand what's going on until the very end. But they go buy a wheelbarrow, and they buy like a shovel and some rakes. And then they go to this like place that's like off, it's like thorns and thistles. It's just like a wild like garden. And they start to, you know, cultivate this thing. And so the whole process of, the whole film is they're asking the question, what did Jesus die for?

And then at the end of the film, they're answering the question as they're doing this work, well, at the end of the film, what you realize is, is that, spoiler alert, that they're actually preparing for this incredible party. They're preparing for this feast, for it almost looks like a wedding ceremony. And I think it's related here because that's what Jesus,

when you said the word became flesh. and then when you go to John 6, Jesus said, I give my flesh for the life of the world. Well, that party that Jesus is at, that wedding ceremony, that's the picture of the kingdom breaking into our present reality, because what we're saved to is actually the party, the life in Christ, the celebration, the wedding ceremony. It's life and life abundantly, which is why when Jesus comes on the scene here, what you see in the new wine that he creates out of water is it's joy and abundance, joy and abundance. And I think that that's a powerful connection. So what I'd like to do is when you get to John 13, just to give you kind of an overall

big picture like we did with the word, like we did with the changing the water to the wine, when you read these first three verses in John 13, it says it was just before the Passover. Jesus knew the time had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father, having loved his own who were in the world. He now showed them the full extent or the end of his love, the uttermost of his love. The evening meal was being served, and the devil had already prompted Jesus to scare it,

Son of Simon, to betray Jesus. Jesus knew that the Father had put all things in his hands, hands and that he came from God. He had come from God and he was returning to God. So he got up from the meal, took his outer clothing and wrapped a towel around his waist. After that, he poured water into a basin and began to wash his disciples' feet, drying them with the towel that was wrapped around him. What I was going to say is the big picture of the Passover, I went back and read Exodus 11 through 13. So, and you know what I found fascinating? Is, because you think about what was the Passover celebration that Israel, and by the way,

they're still doing it today. This is still going on, this observance of what happened at the Passover. And the sad thing is, Jay, is they missed it because, We didn't need any more after this one right here. We're reading about it. Yeah. So look, if you go back to Exodus, and y'all can fill in the blanks, because I'm not going to read all four chapters, but just the heading in Exodus 11 is the plague of the firstborn.

And you remember the story there. Al, I mean, do you want to share that? Exodus 12 is about the Passover. You have the plague of the firstborn. Well, that firstborn does that not sound familiar? Yeah. Well, Jesus would become the firstborn of the dead. And he was the first born of the creation.

But go ahead, Al. Yeah, it was just, it was the 10th plague, and it was the most costly of all, because every firstborn, both human and animal in all of Egypt, died in one night except for Israel, who was covered by the firstborn, which is a really question. Well, exactly, because Israel sacrificed lambs and would put the blood on the doorposts. Does that sound familiar? And this is how they were liberated.

And look, the greatness about that story is it actually worked. They were liberated. But it only worked for a short time because death only got their attention. Yeah. But then they realized, oh, and then they chased them, which eventually led to the parting to the Red Sea. But Jesus, him being the firstborn of the resurrection, that'll change you forever in your participation in that. But here's what I, here's what I wanted to read as far as big picture. Because when it says that God had

placed all things in his hands, well, when you get to Exodus 13, I find this fascinating. And it's talking about the consecration of the firstborn and this observance. He's like, you will observe this throughout history, this feast, this meal that Jesus chose to reveal the full extent of his love and the character of God. We're going back to Exodus 13, the ramifications of this liberation that would be celebrated. But I'm going to read four verses out of Exodus 13. because you're going back here and you don't have to get the point you can read all four chapters and see what Al just talked about.

But in verse three, it says, Moses said to the people, commemorate this day, the day you came out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. Now, here's the key point. Because the Lord brought you out of it with a mighty hand. Then he gets to verse nine. This observance will be for you like a. sign on your hand and a reminder on your forehead that the law of the Lord is to be on your lips. There's the word, for the Lord brought you out of Egypt with his mighty hand.

And you read verse 14 of Exodus 13. In days to come when your son ask you, what does this mean? Say to him, with a mighty hand, the Lord brought us out of Egypt. out of the land of slavery. Verse 16, and it will be like a sign on your hand and a symbol on your forehead that the Lord brought us out of Egypt

with his mighty hand. I think you get the point. And so when you read John 13, and now fast forward, however many hundreds of years, and you think about what happened back then, liberation for God's people. Now here is the Jew of all Jews, the perfect Israelite,

coming to redeem not only them but us and everyone. He says, when he made that statement, John, Jesus knew that the Father had put all things in his hands and that he had come from God and was returning to God. Well, why did he come? Why did he return? It's the establishment of a new creation. a new liberation, perfect freedom, not just from oppression, but from sin and death.

And they're in his hands. Well, what did he eventually do with his hands? He had nails driven in them. He then made a point, and it's fascinating when you read all the verses. You know why after the resurrection, what did he continually do? He's like, look at my hands. in my feet. So even the scars on his hands

speaks liberation. Yeah. Because look, I was dead. They nailed nails in my hands. And when you think the whole Roman act of crucifixion, it was to show that you don't mess with us. You know, they put the crown of thorns, you know, and we talked about what thorns represent, you know.

It's a power play. It's things that cause pain. It's a barrier that we're stronger than anybody, you know. So they put big thorns up around their fortresses, you know, like these big stakes with their, it's just a huge thorn. You say, why? Don't mess with us. We're the most powerful nation in the world.

And they nail him up on a cross to publicly humiliate him. I mean, it wasn't just that they killed him. They were making a statement saying, And this is what happens when you take us on. But him showing his hands that are now have been resurrected and glorified is showing you this is ultimate liberation. And of course, then he puts his hands on them. Think about all those statements about that. And so that's why I think when you look at the big picture, it does have more meaning.

to us here today. Did I tell you, that in the movie, the passion, which Mel Gibson directed, that when it came to the scene, if you watch when they stretch Jesus' hand, you just see his hands.

And then there's a Roman, you know, hand that has the little, you know, cuff thing on the leather cuff and it's hammering in that first nail. And someone said that, I read somewhere that that was actually,

Gibson wanted that to be his hand. because we all had a hand in doing that. And I thought it was a powerful image, once you kind of knew that behind the scenes, if that really happened, that we all had a hand in this idea. And I love the picture you're talking about the mighty hand in the same scene we're seeing here being watched

because you remember the final scene of the liberation, the escape was when they went through the Red Sea. And then all of Egypt, who was chasing them, were drowned. in the same water. And Paul said in first reading his 10, that was their cleansing because there was a cloud above them. There was water on both sides. In essence, that was the cleansing of coming out of Egypt, even though that same generation, the oldest generation, died in the desert on the other side of the water because they kept wanting to go back to Egypt. So to your point, you still have to embrace by faith what God is doing.

Well, you see here the cleansing ritual, right? Jesus is washing the feet. And what is, he says, if I don't wash your feet, then you have no share with me. And it's like that participatory phrase that like you're like you're participating in this with me. But it's also like a covenantal phrase as well that God's making a covenant with these guys. And that is also connected to the Jesus turning water into wine at the wedding. Because what's what ultimately is happening here is he is he's in the, the wedding feast, when he turns the water into wine, he's almost like announcing himself as the

bridegroom. And then when you get here, he's talking to the bride. And he's telling the bride, I got to present you holy and blameless, right? And so if you don't let me wash you, then you can't actually be participant in the covenant with me. So the washing then becomes the way in which that we enter into the covenant, which goes back to that Genesis 15 passage, that when God makes the covenant with Abram, and he basically moves alone through those dead animals to say, it's a one-way covenant. But we are invited into participate.

So God accomplishes, he actually accomplishes both sides of the covenant, and then offers that to you. But you have to come in and be washed by the sacrifice of the covenant, which would become his own sacrifice, that's the blood. Then it's new wine. What's the new wine? His blood is the wine. They're literally taking the last supper here.

They're reenacting the last supper, which will become the Lord's supper, which we take every Sunday at our church, and we drink what? Wine, or the fruit of the vine. We're drinking the wine, which symbolizes his blood. So you can kind of see all of that running through the gospel of John, but it is centered on a relationship that is built on a covenant. that's what Christ is doing. It's bridegroom and bride.

And the bridegroom is actually accomplishing both sides of the covenant, both the demand for faithfulness and who he is faithful on his side and the rectifying when that faithfulness is broken when the adultery occurs. He makes both of them right. I mean, that's pretty powerful. Yeah. And what did he wash their feet with, you know, his hands? Yeah.

So when he gets to verse 14, of John 13, and he says, now that I, your Lord, and teacher have washed your feet, you also should wash one another's feet. I have set you an example that you should do, as I've done for you. That's why when people will say, which I agree with,

but I think we take it too lightly, when we say, oh, we're the hands and feet of Jesus, well, that is quite the standard. Yeah, yeah. No, think of the scars Because I had another Bible study this week And they were talking about something came up Which they were

I thought too depressed, you know, to be a son of God And I was like, look, scars matter That means you You're still here. You're back. You survived it. This is speaking resurrection. You came from the dead.

You come through the pain. all these different things. And so when something brings that up that reminds you, you can then, you know, take hope in what Jesus did to accomplish this. It's not saying this is a pain-free life, but it's speaking to the new creation and the new liberation that he was fixing to offer, but he set the stage right here in how we are to operate.

And he gave you the catalyst by, That's why, you know, elsewhere in this chapter, he's like, you don't understand this now, but you will. You'll get this because I think he was having the cross in mind that it was an act of love that was unconditional, which is really revealing the character of God himself. And that would pass on to us as being his representative. Well, and I love the idea, right, that then we carry that narrative. And you see that a lot of the New Testament epistles. the idea of what our hands do, but also our feet. I think about Romans 10, how beautiful a feat of those who bring good news. Good point. There's a lot of really rich symbolism in this, and we've got a lot more to talk about, but we're out of time.

Speaking of time, so we'll see you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube, and be sure to click the little bell. and choose all notifications to watch every episode.