Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1146 | A Miss Kay Health Update & Did Jesus Love Even Judas?

Episode Date: August 18, 2025

Al shares an update on Miss Kay’s recovery as she enjoys her first night out to dinner with the family in a while, laughing and soaking up every moment around the table. Jase jumps in with his own food opinions, insisting his cast-iron skillet still beats any restaurant. Zach is blown away by what an app called Levels is telling him about his health, and it's a real eye-opener. The guys dig into John chapter 13, where Jesus identifies his betrayer while breaking bread with him. They wrestle with hard questions—does God hate, and did Jesus die for Judas too?—while exploring how God’s love, sovereignty, and human choice all meet at the table. Check out https://levels.link/unashamed In this episode: John 13, verses 18–30; Genesis 3, verse 15; Genesis 25, verses 19–26; Genesis 32, verses 22–32; Genesis 33, verses 1–11; Malachi 1, verses 2–3; Romans 9, verses 10–18; Romans 1, verses 18–28; 2 Corinthians 5, verses 14–15; 1 John 2, verse 2 —  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashame. Jay's, I think the number one question that I get asked. In fact, I got it this morning when I walked in this room from Maddie, our lovely producer, is how is your mom? You know, because everybody's just curious. Mom has not been in the best of health for a bit the last, you know, a couple of years. but then she got a lot better, I think, you know, not too long after her dad crossed over. But then she had a setback because she had to have surgery, which I think we talked about it on the podcast.

We haven't given an update lady, but she's doing well again. The surgery was a success. And I noticed when I, because I just got back into town for a couple of days. And so part of the reason I came home was to check on her because I've been gone for a while. And she looks great. And, you know, we've had some really good kind of. is the last day or so. And then last night, we had a little outing because Sage, who is Stone's youngest daughter,

turned 11 this week. And apparently in my particular wing of the family, every time somebody has a birthday, we got to do a big to-do, which is usually going to eat out and all this, which I don't like to do much. But, you know, for the family, I do it. You do it for the kids. I do it for the kids. Well, I have a birthday coming up, and I'm not eating out. Right.

And I would never even see, you and I have the code. I would never even think to ask you to go. I mean, what would you say if I said, Jay's why don't I take you out for lunch on your birthday? What would you say if I said that to you? I would say, I've always had a problem of going out and eating something in a celebration context. That's going to be worse than what I could do myself.

That's right. And it's almost... You're saying the food's better at home. Oh, it's much better. I'm not saying that. I'm commanding that. There you go. We don't just call dogs that.

command. I thought the same thing. That's why when you see me taking the three items to a deserted island, one of which being a black cast iron skillet, I think that tells you all you need to know. You're not taking him out for your birthdays. No, I'm not. That ain't going to happen. But so Sage, so it's funny because, like my great.

I want to make one comment for you. When I got home from the podcast where Missy said, don't throw me under the bus, when I got back, she said, well, I'm. I said, I didn't throw you under the bus. I threw you under a black iron skillet. That's a good line. It actually opened and closed that podcast. So Sage is funny because my grandsons,

they want to go out and eat. You know, it's funny because they don't eat out a lot either because Alex cooks, but they're always wanting it. Let's go to Wingstile. Yeah, teenagers are in pre-teen. They're weird about that. They discover, oh, there's food in places you can. can go and they think the experience is cool.

Because I went through the same thing. Me and Willie used to go to town. Oh, yeah. And have all our money in a bag. I remember the first time I was with y'all the first time you did that. And I didn't know because y'all were a little bit younger than me. So I was just happened to be riding along for some reason. Y'all were both teenagers.

And we were in the size little black Nissan. Remember we had that truck? Oh, wow. Yeah. Well, multiple fights over who was going to be driving that. And I was in a little jump seat behind you. The reason I say our money was in a bag, because it was all. coinage. That's all the money we had.

This was both got leftovers and looking under couch cushions. In our age of technology and being overall spoiled as a culture, maybe, Willie and I were like, can you believe they have places that will cook for you? All you have to do is give them some money. So I've told this story before, but I'll tell it again because it's worth it. They, Jace and Willie would buy as much food as the money they had would buy. In other words, it wasn't like, yeah, I'll take a number one. Like now we got a number which limits you. They were like, okay, I can get three of these.

I can get two of those. And what if I have less? So you're getting a running tally. They would look down and they would have like 47 cents left and say, what can you give for 47? Yeah. Can you add a small French fry? Yeah. We were single-handly responsible for putting.

the drive-through process to the test, to the ultimate test. Well, that's... People would be cursing you today. Wow, that's why we got so unhealthy. We grew up eating all the junk. I mean, I was the same way. We were eating like sweet buns and all the fast food. I mean, once you kind of got access to that.

The cherry pie, McDonald's, I used to love it. Yeah, it's great being raised in the wilderness, but there is a period of time when you discover a shiny. It was a shiny moment. Civilization that you realize, oh, this is... amazing you know so so so last night i'm home and so i'm like okay i missed the birthday so so i take wherever you want to go take the whole family and so i sage doesn't really have a place and so she said well i want to go to walk-ons which is drew breeze owns a series of restaurants

very familiar they have one item there that i just absolutely love they have several good things there yeah and we love drew breeze he was so great playing for the saints but anyway so i was like wow walk on. She said, well, I ate my second cheeseburger there. I said, your second. She said, okay. That's where we're going, walk on. So we went there last night, and mom was so excited for the outing. Like, now that she's feeling

well, again, she's like, I want to go. And I said, well, mom, you think you can get in my truck? Because Anna's been taking around this little car, because it's kind of easier for her to get in. I was like, my truck is here, are you ready? Because she can climb into it pretty good when she's feeling good. And she did. She scampered up in my truck.

And we went over it. She had a big time. It was a dayluse rain. We got there. We had to wait for the rain to settle. But she's really doing well. And so I just wanted to let Unashamed Nation know because I know you guys worry about Mom, but she's doing fantastic. Right now she's living with my daughter, Anna, kind of right in the middle of the compound so everybody can stop by and see her. And, you know, it's all working out really well. So appreciate all the prayers that you do. But, you know, health is important. You know, we all get to that place, right, Zach? Well, what did you eat, Al? What did you?

So I stuck with my PhD. I had redfish they had a redfish tacos with some slal in there. Very good, very PhD friendly. I was hoping you would pick the best thing they have but you did. No, I have to instead of getting

waffle fries on the side, which is what it comes with, I got broccoli. Why would you think that whatever I was going to tell you had something to do with waffle fry? What I was going to tell? Because you, the stuff you, Jace, you're a walking anomaly. You're skinny, you always have been, but you eat some of the worst stuff that's for people. Do you not, are you not curious about what I,

you know, as much as I hate fast food, I don't eat it, I don't go out. There's one thing, and I'll just, like Missy will say, do you want me to go by walk-ones and pick you up separate? Well, we don't have to, we know what this is. We know what this is. The devil on horseback shrimp? No. Okay. That's pretty good. I'm just so disappointed. What is it? What is it? It's called, and I got it by accident the first time. Missy got a salad, and I said, I think they have a seared tuna salad. Oh, yeah, yeah. Somebody got that last night.

Well, that's not it. That's what I ordered. Well, when she brought back the little box. It's like I'm pulling teeth here. When I got the little box, I thought, this doesn't look like a salad. I thought I told you to get the tuna salad. And she's like, I told them what you told me, and that's what they gave me. And so I opened it up, and there's this tuna over rice.

Oh, yeah. With I'm out. Mango. Yep. I'm out. And it has some beans. You know, you got that last night,

BK got that very dish. See, I couldn't eat that. I've got a little hack I'm doing now. I signed up for this thing called Levels. And actually I'm aware. You didn't tell me about this, Zach. Oh,

this thing's awesome. It's a whole app, but it's a whole. I would love to know why you couldn't eat that because it's one of the best things I've ever eaten. And it's very healthy. Yeah, it's healthy.

So I've been studying what I eat. And I can tell in real time, what I'm eating, what it does to my blood sugar. And then I have a glucose monitor that I wear, and it's actually eye-opening. So I don't, the mangoes, out, the rice, out, the tuna I could do. If I touch that rice, though, you're talking about sending my blood sugar through the roof, fast food, out.

But there's a lot of things that can eat. So I've actually learned. So you're telling me you can eat something and then instantly know that you didn't react, your body did not react well to whatever you just ate. Yeah, because what I figured out about me, I didn't know this, but I was actually, my blood sugar was a little high, and so I got a whole thing I'm doing with the doctor now. A pre-diabetic type situation.

A little pre-diabetic, because you get to, I mean, I'm looking at my blood sugar, and it's supposed to, like, pop up and pop back down, and mine would stay up. I've ran my blood panels. I found this out. This is actually interesting. My biological age, according to the levels of that is I'm 39.

So I'm in decent shape. I mean, I'm not bad. I have some things I need to work on. I had a little deficiency of omega-pre fatty acids. I mean, I know my body. body the levels. For me, it's been a big motivator. And I actually, they're going to sponsor our podcast.

But I joined up before that, before they even were a sponsor just because I'd heard about it. I saw them on another podcast and I've been trying it. It's been awesome. But that's going to help me then, because I'm getting close to what they call maintenance. And I need a way to, like, track. So that's going to go. It'll track.

Yeah. It's, it's the next level. It's biohacking. You couldn't. So he's a biohacker. It's a phrasy. A biohacker. heard. And what I also noticed is he's kind of like the weather. They'll give you a temperature

and they'll say, but it feels like it's 97. I'm 47, but I feel like I'm 39. I feel like I'm 39. So I've always thought that you had a certain days. I always thought that if this doesn't work out for you, you could be like a weather guy. They're like, trust me, it's not 97. You think it's 97, but it feels like it's 102. Levels. I'm telling you, This thing's a game changer, and it's been like the best thing I've done. Al, you need to try it. I would say you should try it, yeah, because it sounds like something I could use for sure. So they're going to do something for our listeners.

They're going to give two months free if you do like an annual membership. Levels.com slash Unashamed. That's the website. I don't know how long they're going to do the offer. It's been awesome for me. I was talking to my counselor, my PhD counselor this week after my trip to Ireland. And I told her, I said, you know, because I don't eat a lot of bread here in the States because it's so processed. And I was telling her about the bread I was eating in Ireland, which is not.

They make everything fresh. And look, we had bread that was made, it had seaweed in the bread. And I was like, well, you don't get any more natural of that because they're living on the coast. And it was delicious. I could not believe. Well, I've always joked that, because I've used this illustration before when people say, oh, I can't eat bread. because I'm like, well, what are you going to tell Jesus about that little thing where he fed five, fowl, and had like leftovers.

And look, you know what they said, Zai? They said, well, you'd have to get the recipe first. Well, that was a different kind of bread because it was like the, it was whole grain. It wasn't genetically modified. So there's, look, I'm telling you all, I've been, I've watched this stuff kind of skeptically about biohacking and just metabolic health. But I'm telling you it levels. It's real.

I'm watching it in real time. I'm seeing what I'm eating. And it's legit. Well, speaking of bread, there's my segue. Speaking of bread, I didn't plan on segue and into John 13 this way. But it actually fits well because we're at a moment in John 13 where Jesus has mentioned in Psalm 41, he brings up the quote, that the one who he's going to share. some bread with is the one who's going to betray him. Yeah.

Is this moment. But you read it beautifully, Jason, the last podcast, that David's Psalm 40 leading up to Psalm 41 is this beautiful picture of the love of God and just how powerful it is. And tying in with that question that we originally asked three or four podcasts ago, when he said, do you understand what I'm doing for you, how the will of God translates to the love of God? Yeah. And which I had way more stuff on that.

You know, you can do your own rabbit hole. But I do think that that question helps you understand some of the more difficult themes and verses in the Bible. And I'll give you a couple of examples before we move on, you know, to Judas's role in this. Right. You remember when he prayed, he taught him how to pray and he said, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. And you remember when he's praying later before he's going to die on the cross, and he's like, not my will, but your will be done. When you tie that with love, those verses start making sense.

It's like, yeah, he's looking around. This is rough. God becoming a human. Can you imagine? You're the creator of the universe, and you take this on in this world with the evil one roaming around and all the things. And it's almost, like he's said that one of the world. the times he said that. Remember, it was in the garden when he was like sweating drops of blood and just like having this human moment about what he was about to face. And that's what he came back to.

It's almost like he was reminding himself that, look, the reason I'm here is because of our love for these people. I mean, it's like a reminder. Well, and it's just so inspiring to us because in our broken world and our broken families and all this, you know, you run upon Jesus. You know, you run upon Jesus. and then you realize, oh, he's running after me. And there's a moment. There's a clarity that you're like, I might have been unloved as a human, just based on my environment and having bad parents or whatever.

And now all of a sudden you discover, oh, I've been loved all along. Right. And I think the contrast of what we're about to see here with Judas, because of him using this quote from Psalm 41, and him using this idea of the heel analogy, it's interesting because David brings it up way back there in Psalm, but then Jesus says it here,

we've already made the link back to Genesis 315, which is this idea of evil is there. Because look, if you don't, to understand love, you have to also understand the antithesis of love, which is hate. And for whatever reason, the evil one hates us. I mean, he does, because every action he's ever had from the very beginning was not love, but was done in hate. I'm glad you brought that up because I think the last couple

podcasts have been beautiful about why did Jesus come, you know, because he loved us. But also, there's another answer to that question, and you see it seen here through Judas. You're like, well, who moved? If God has been loving us all along, who caused the separation? Right.

And trust me, this separation that you're fixed to see with Judas, it didn't just occur right here in this moment. It had already occurred in his heart. Right. And it was leading up to him declaring, and there's a peculiar phrase there. It was like at that moment. Yeah.

Satan entered. Yeah, the way it's framed and phrased. So I want to bring up one other thing before we leave this heel analogy, because this is something Zach and I are doing, along with Christian John Luke, some stuff for Hillsdale. podcast because of their courses they do. And so we've done one on Genesis, which we're excited to present to you guys. And in that, Zach, I don't know if you remember, we talked about Jacob and Esau in Genesis 25. And Jacob, so this picture is a great picture. And again, the Bible

doesn't do anything accidentally. Jesus is there, even in this idea of watching the birth of Jacob and Esau way, way back. Because you had these two nations, you know, jostling inside the womb of their mother. And that was the idea of these two sons that would come forward. And Jacob, you know, he was going to be the one that carried the blessing and all the things that happened. But he didn't come out first. Esau didn't. And so his name means the deceiver, but it also literally means he who grasped the heel. So imagine this baby is born. And all of a sudden, Jacob reaches out, this is in childbirth. Yeah. And it's like he grabs Esau to pull him back.

I was like, no, I'm going to go first. And so they spend the whole part of their early life in this back and forth of deceit. And it's a great story if you want to read it in Genesis 25 through 32. But it's interesting, and this is what brings the point forward, I think, in the work we're talking about today, is that Jacob finally has a moment. There's a deceiver when he's been deceived over and over and over again about his wives and his kids. He's got four wives. He's got 12 sons. he's got just a disaster.

I call it the blended family that was thrown in the blender. What could go wrong now? I mean, four wives. Man, you talk about a blended family. And then he gets to this point in Genesis 32 where he wrestles with this figure. I mean, I'll just call it that. It's some sort of supernatural figure.

And he winds up an injury to his hip. And, like, you know, it's like finally he like surrenders to God in this moment. And his name has changed. from the deceiver to Israel, which means he struggles with God. And so it's such a picture of us and this idea of surrender. And then the next chapter,

he finally faces Esau his brother who wants to kill him, and he comes out humbly and says, I've been wrong all this time. And when he's expecting Esau to cut his head off, Esau forgives him. It's just this beautiful moment. And I love the picture

because it's just a picture of exactly what's about to happen in this text, which is this ideal of the evil one is always present to try to take away what God is putting in us. And I think that's the reason why we see this picture of Judas in our text. So let me pick it up in verse 21, because I'm going to advance our text. Because here's what happened. And we've referenced this a couple of times, but let's read it.

So he says, well, I'll read you verse 20. He said, I tell you the truth, whoever accepts anyone I say and accepts me, and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me. So he links back to this idea, he and the father. And then here's something interesting. He says in verse 21, after he had said this, Jesus was troubled in spirit. And, you know, I find this interesting, Jay.

That same Greek word there for troubled in spirit is the one he uses, then we're going to get to in John 14. One, do not let your hearts be trouble. That's the same Greek word when he's telling them, look, there's something good coming. but in this case he felt like they did. He was troubled in spirit, and he testified,

I tell you the truth, one of you is going to betray me. So he just says it out loud, which had to have been shocking to these 12 men. And probably even Judas as well, because he's like, oh, no, he knows. I mean, he's the only one thinking he knows. Yeah, and, well, and Judas, I think,

had justified it in thinking you have a marketing problem. Yeah. My way. I mean, because you've got to remember that we're reading these stories and like oh he all along no he he he didn't like the picture that's right of his political kingship right and he's more thinking about let's get a lot of money let's get in with the right people we're building a movement here well right so he's his plan his view of god or having a messiah was what he wanted to go with so he's justifying

the I mean there's no doubt there's a reason Jesus chose him right And he just didn't want to follow that narrative. So we do the same thing. I mean, that is the temptation. When you read things about who God is, and that doesn't fit your lifestyle. Think like when he told the rich young ruler, go sell everything you have.

Well, that was a deal breaker. Yeah, exactly. Because that narrative is not working with me following you if that has to happen. And it didn't even, it wasn't even relevant to whether he was a pretty good guy or not. apparently was a really good guy. Exactly.

But he hadn't committed his heart, you know, to follow him going. Yeah, it was a surrender problem, you know. Yeah, and he ended up being taken over by Satan in the end, which is, that's always the end of the death work. That's always the end goal. Regardless of what, you know, there's a big Jesus Christ superstar is back out, I think, right now, which is supposed to be the story of Jesus through the perspective of Judas. it's been very controversial just because of a lot of the it's really a mockery of Christ but the matter what Broadway says no Jesus was was was as was was as was pure and holy and

blameless and Judas was not and it is interesting to me that in this knowledge of Christ in his omniscience he knows he knows Judas is going to is going to betray him and and Christ is not necessarily I don't say he's not a victim. He's willfully laying down his life and submitting to this betrayal, which is incredible when you think about, we're talking about the sovereign king of the universe.

And when you had mentioned earlier about understanding love, how you said you also have to understand its counterpart, which is hate, or the opposite of love is hate and to really understand it. Another thing you have to really understand to really grasp love,

is particularly when it comes to the love of who God is, you have to understand his sovereignty and his glory and his power, because however far you see God above us, like how far he transcends above us, which is, by the way, it's an infinite distance, it's an infinite chasm. You can never see the height of his glory. But however high you see him, that's how far he had to come down to put himself in a human body and submit himself to this type of betrayal by a human being, one he created, and ultimately death on a cross. And so that's why the love component, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense

until you start to understand who is this Jesus that's sitting here at this meal with his disciples. He's not just a good guy. We are talking about the creator of the cosmos, the one who, through whom all things were made and without him nothing was made. We are talking about God, incarnate. So it just brings a little bit more of a lot, it brings an infinite amount more of understanding of what, how bizarre is it that he would submit himself to this betrayal? Yeah.

I think a couple of caveats on that. The, when you say love and hate, the Greek definition of hate is not what our current English definition of hate is. because he uses it in some context, like remember with his family. Yeah. He's like, less. It needs to love less than as opposed to.

Well, right. And that's a big deal because what's happened is if you use the English definition, you get into there's some doctrines out there, which is not consistent with the narrative of God being love. It's like when he said, whoever wants to come after me must hate his mother, his father, his brother, his sister. where's that, Luke 14. And what does that mean?

It's not, you know, I think that's an important point. Because even in Romans, is it nine, where he says, Jacob I love and Esau, I hated. Yeah, that's a big point. Yeah, but you can, if you're applying our modern day definition, well, you can go down a rabbit hole that it's not there. Right.

So that was one caveat. I had another one for what. Well, the line, I mean, that's a quote. Romans nine quotes, a quote from Malachi. I think Malachi. No, you're right. It tells the story. That's a very good point.

You need to read Malachi. Yeah. We're trying to understand that. I think you made that point before that, and it's brilliant, because Malachi really gives you an understanding of what that means. Which makes sense, because when you go back and read the Genesis account, you're not finding that phrase at all. So it was, Malachi was making a point when he quoted it, and then Paul was making a point when he

quoted Malagai. Well, you also, because you brought up earlier. that Jacob and Esau story at the beginning of the podcast, and you brought up Genesis 25. I mean, even there, it's pretty clear as you kind of move through it, that he's talking about the nation of Israel, because Jacob became synonymous with Israel, and then Anesol became synonymous with Edom.

And that's pretty clear throughout their whole history of the story. Right. And so the Edomites were, in the end, were at odds with Israel, and they wouldn't let Israel pass through their land. So when you get to Malachi, where that actual quote is at, If you read the whole entire prophecy of Malachi, very clearly he's juxtaposing Israel with Edom. And so that's kind of the whole Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles, right?

So when you get to the book of Romans, that's kind of what he's talking about is Paul being the apostle to the Gentiles now is laying out the case for how the Gentiles being grafted in to Israel, explaining what all that means. But this, you have problems that when you try to make the point of the two men and you focus on them because like I said, when you get to Genesis 33, they worked it out. So it has to be the idea of their progeny going forward in nations and how they didn't work it all out. Well, it's a great point because the older will serve the younger is the prophecy in Genesis 25 when before the twins were born. but if you actually read the text, Jacob, in the end, comes to Esau. That's right. Who's the older, and so the younger actually bows down to the older and calls him Lord.

Yeah. And he's like, like, spare me. And so you actually see, let me serve you as what you actually see. So the prophecy. In fact, the grasping of the heel idea is there, which we learned that in our hills, of course. He grasped the heel of his livestock and children. and that was the actual word that's in the text in saying, here before me is everything at your service, you know, that idea.

Yeah, so when you get to Romans 9, it just takes on, I think, a lot deeper meaning than just some, like, it's not just a doctoral position that's being laid out by Paul. What he's actually, he's actually building this incredible case. It actually starts at the very beginning of the book of Romans when he says that Paul, He says, I'm basically an apostle to the Gentiles, and I came to bring the Gentiles to the obedience of faith. That's how he starts the book of Romans. And that's how he actually ends the book of Romans with the very same phrase,

to bring the Gentiles to the obedience of faith. So Romans is a book that's explaining what does it even mean? What is the obedience of faith? What does it even mean? And you're seeing it like it's faith in Christ. And so what Christ is doing here in chapter 13 is, the of John is he's this is the foundational these are foundational chapters of Jesus's story of what of the what we're actually putting our faith or who we're actually putting our

faith into yeah yeah the other caveat was I think people have asked me before well how how did that work and I'm just strictly bringing this up because it is difficult to wrap your head around because you're like well how did you how did Jesus know if he became a man how do you know judas was going to betray now john too back when we were there at the end after his little temple discourse about i am the temple he then makes a statement john does that jesus didn't need the testimony of man because what does it say exactly he did not need this is 225 man's testimony about man for he knew what was in a man and he also is fixing to predict that Peter is going to deny him.

He literally looked into the future in some capacity. The only reason I'm bringing it up, because people say, well, how did that work? I thought he was tempted in every way. I thought he was a man. And he is a man. He's called the son of man. He is.

So, and there's a, it's not as easily answered as you might think. Because like Zach made a reference, well, he's, you know, God's obnition. But he became a man. Well, let me throw this one thing out so you can pick whatever option you won't. But you do got to realize he never did a miracle before he had the Holy Spirit at his baptism, which I'm just throwing that out there. I don't think that's a coincidence. And he also grew and learned like that little verse that says he grew in wisdom.

Well, why is he having to grow in wisdom if he had all wisdom, you see? So I was just making a point. I do think somehow, because the Holy Spirit was working also, or he couldn't be walking on the water. A man can't walk on the water without sinking. What's happening here, you know? You got, and you have Mark 13, where Jesus says, but concerning the day or that hour,

this is the Olivet discourse, no one knows. Not even the angels in heaven nor the son, but only the father. So then you're like, wait, wait, Great. How does he not know? That was my point. I don't have a problem with this discourse.

I'm 100% secure because I think there was these manifestations of the Holy Spirit combined with his growing as a human and learning and wisdom to be able to discern. And you've got to remember, if you do everything right, just think about living as an adult. And you never make a misstep. your ability to discern human nature is going to be at a way higher level just as a human. It would be the highest as ever been. And he even showed the insight at 12 years old when he's there in the temple. You know what I'm saying?

Full of the spirit. Full of the spirit, which is that I was going to say, like, the way that I understand this to be is that you got to understand Jesus as having two natures. Do you have Jesus being incarnate, which is the incarnation of the. son. But then you have the son who's not incarnate. Yeah, like the pre-existing, like, creator of the universe. Yeah, the created the universe. He's been here all along. He's been here always. So Jesus is, is the incarnation of the sun. And so in the incarnated state,

there, there are limits in his humanness, not in his divine state, but in his human state, because, as I just read in Mark 13, he did not have the knowledge of that hour or that day. No one knows that the Father. And then also you have, you had this kind of in Isaiah too. Isaiah too says that the Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, speaking of the Christ, the spirit of wisdom and an understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord. So when you get to the New Testament and then the Messiah comes in Jesus, God comes incarnate, he is dependent on the Father.

for everything, and he does nothing based on his own accord according to his own words in John 5 when he says, truly, truly, I say to you, the son of man can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the father doing for whatever the father does, that the son does likewise. So it shows that Jesus's ministry is actually very dependent on the father and the Holy Spirit, for that matter, because in Luke 4, it says in Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, return to the Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness. So that, well, what does that tell you? That tells you that he is dependent on the spirit for his mission and for his guidance. And I think to your point, the baptism is important, a baptism of Jesus, because that's the moment the spirit of God comes on him, descends on him like a dove.

And then it's almost like, okay, now it's time to start the ministry, now go. So you see this playing out here. So if Jesus has foreknowledge, if he does perform a miracle, he's, doing it, he's doing it by his father or the spirit. That's, that's where this is coming from. He's dependent, in his incarnated state, he's calling back on, on the divine nature to do these things. No, I well said. And I was going to go to that. Like the gifts, even in First Corinthians, you know, of discernment and different things and knowledge and prophecy and all these things, which was an active thing in the early church. They didn't have a Bible. Here's a man claiming

to be God. And that was how God chose. to confirm. Thank Hebrews 2-4. Why did he do all these miracles? I mean, Hebrews 2-1-4 describes that. It was to confirm that he was who he was. So I just wanted to bring that up because that is a little confusing to wrap your head around. But at the end of the day, yeah.

Yeah, at the end of the day, I think it's important because this is God and humans getting back together. So here's a God who's become a human to fulfill that goal in love, which I think it's important to, I guess, you know, think about because when you, now you have Judas, which is weird because you're like, well, how come he chose him if he knew he was going to betray him? Of course, he gave one reason because it was predicted that that would happen. happened. Yeah, the answer is he chose, why did they choose him if he knew he was going to betray him? It's because he knew he was going to betray him. And just because he knew doesn't change the fact that Judas had to make a decision, which is why to your point earlier, I think

was a brilliant one, that we read into this, like it was just already decided and Judas was on this pathway and nothing could have happened. And just because things had been predicted, but Judas still had to decide every step of the way. That's why I think it's so important that we get into this text, and it says, finally he crosses over. And this moment says that Satan entered him. I don't believe that was demon possession. No, now look, I knew this was going to come up.

And look, I may be on an island. I could be wrong. I think it's just the continuing narrative of what happened to Genesis 3. It all happens to us. And it doesn't mean I had an argument with a guy one time, which was kind of peculiar, because he made the statement that Jesus didn't love Judas. And I was like, well, if he hadn't washed his feet, I might would entertain that thought.

But I kind of went with the God is love. He created Jesus. In that verse where it said he loved them? That meant it didn't say except for. No, he's going to show you the full extent of his love. And guess what? He had his feet out there and he loved him. He chose not to reciprocate,

which we all kind of have that choice, which is why Zach and I, a few podcasts ago when you were having storm problems, went through that Deuteronomy 30, because it's the same picture even under the law. And when you read Romans 10, you're like, oh, because at the end of Deuteronomy 30, he lays it all out.

He's like, I'm offering life, prosperity, success, and blessing. Now, on the other side of this is curse, destruction, death, and whatever, the opposite of the other one I said was. And then he gets to the end and Deuteron 30's like, make the right choice. Right. And so I think you see that here. And so in that argument, you know, I read, I said, well, what about 1st John 2?

Where it says, verse 2, talking about Jesus Christ in our defense, because now he's representing humans before the throne of God. That's what he's doing. That's why he returned. So this verse says he's the atoning sacrifice for our sins, because you know, John's writing to Christians. But then he says, and not only for ours, but also for the sins of the whole world. Oh, by the way.

Which was what was interesting when I was having this argument. He's like, well, that doesn't mean the whole world. And I thought, okay, I'm just going to forget you said that. But let me, because he was like, well, that means our whole world or whatever is Christians. I said, well, what about 2 Corinthians 5, which I realize I'm just picking random verses. but I think you see this concept because love is God, and that goes in with the will of God on why Jesus came. And this is a very good verse when it is 2ndthus 514 says,

for Christ's love compels us. And watch how he phrases it here. Because we are convinced that one died for all. I mean, I'm assuming that's Judas included. Yeah. But then it says, and therefore all died. But here's the key verse, the next one. And he died for all that those who live should no longer live for themselves,

but for him who died for them and was raised again. Well, put Judas in that scenario. He washed his feet. And what did he do? He didn't respond. It was a shadow of him dying on the cross. And he got his feet washed. just like he died on the cross for Judas's sins and mine.

But he chose to look at that foot washing and say, no, I'm not going to live. I'm not, this is not the example. I'm not going to wash somebody's feet. I'm going to turn him in and see if he really is who he says he is. Right. And which is what I think. I think Judas had a narrative in his mind. I'm purely speculating, but in cahoots with the evil one, that said,

okay, he claims to be God, well, let's kill him and just let's bring this to a head. If he comes back, okay, well, I did him a favor. I just sped the process up, you say? But you know what's done? I think John 12 gives us a little bit of a window into this because it's a really good point we're talking about here because if you go back and research this, Judas had actually already planned this betrayal, he was already corrupted before Satan entered into him in John 13. I agree.

By him declaring this, it was just a sign of what had already happened. Well, do you remember what happened when he objected to Mary's use of the perfumes? He was a thief having charged the money back. He used to help himself to what was put into it. So you already see greed in his heart before all this even happened. And if you look at Matthew 26, you also get... you get this idea that Jesus, this is happening,

he's corrupted before Satan enters him. And it reminds me of the Pharaoh's story in Exodus, which by the way, it's also mentioned in Romans 9. And so the hardening of Pharaoh's heart is another really controversial text, but it's the same thing going on here. That Hebrew word for hardened is a word called Chazac,

which means to strengthen in resolve. So you have a resolve, you have a, you have a bent that you're going towards. I'm going to, I'm going to strengthen you in that. That's the word harden and Exodus. And so if you read the story of Exodus, Pharaoh had hardened his own heart several times. Oh, I agree.

I've noticed that too, and I read that. It starts off saying he's hardened. And then as the process goes on, you then get the phrase, well, God hardened his heart. Because he would just go left to his own devices. And when you're left to your own devices, the more you'll finally just do it. I've told you guys a practical example of this when Jeff said he was in the world. old as a prodigal and he went into a bar and there was a guy there that went church with us and he looked at Jeff and he said oh man we've been waiting for you to get here we need you out here

well someone who says a statement like that has already given in well it's like doing the phrase I think Zach said this before the absence of the presence of God is going to bring more problems and more hardening of the heart just think you're choosing well what is it's a I don't want the presence of God in my life because I don't even believe there is a God. So think about his wrath then. His wrath is seen in a little different light all of a sudden because then it's like, wait a second. Romans 1 says the wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people who suppress the truth by their wickedness because what may be, since what may be known about God is plain to them because God

has made it plain to him. And then you skip down and it said, this is this is, this is, this This is the wrath of God right here. God gave them over in the sinful desires of their heart. He gave them over to themselves. God gave them over to shameful lust. So think about what that, the wrath of God as presented in Romans 1 is God dispaysing,

okay, I'm going to let you do you and you just go do what you want to do. That's his wrath. At least in part it's his wrath. He's letting us, he's leaving us to our, ourselves. And I think Judas in that moment is, I think that the spirit of God was pulling back his common grace over Judas and he's just letting, okay, this is the route you're going. And God

will use your evil. That's what's crazy about it. God will use your own evil desires and your own evil belligerence and your own willful rejection of him. He will ultimately use that for his glory. And what you think is victory will actually be his victory in the end. To me, that's the big story here is that Judas was belligerent in his willful rejection of Christ. He was corrupt from the beginning. I'm thinking about the guy you mentioned that went to Jep and said that in the bar. I believe that guy's in prison right now. He is. But God will give you over to yourself, but God will end up using that for his glory. So in this case, what Judas thought was him winning and he's making some money out of it. He gets just 30 pieces of silver. Jesus gets captured.

they crucify him. Looks like all is lost, but three days later, he's coming out of the grave. And now we're all here because Jesus Christ came out of the grave. And what else happened? Yeah, and through that, he defeated the powers who are accusing and prosecuting, you know, human beings, tempting. He disarmed them by that very act. And remember, Jesus is the one that he can. he's bringing up this contrast.

Remember in John 10 when he's talking about the Good Shepherd, he brought up the thief that comes to steal and kill and destroy. Of course, he also declared, and I'm not that. I came to give you life. Don't make God a thief, a robber, or he's not robbing anything. It reminds me of a story that N2 Wright talks about in the John for Everyone book I've been reading about a slaughterhouse that was there in the town where he grew up in. And the sheep would go, but the sheep would get real nervous.

about when they gets the slaughterhouse, they had a sense that someone right about this place. Of course, they were about to be slaughtered. And so these people devised a plan to have a sheep that had gotten used to be in there, and the sheep would lead these other sheep into the slaughterhouse. You know what they named the sheep? Judas. I mean, so even way back then in a practical setting, this idea was there. Let me read the rest of this text, and we'll close with this, so we can pick it up next time.

verse 22 his disciples stared at one another at a loss to know which of them he meant which which made me think they all thought is it me one of them the disciple whom jesus loved john we think and jace brought this up before was reclining next to him peter motions to him and says ask him which one he meant which one he means leaning back against jesus he said lord who is it it is the one to whom i give this piece of bread when i have dipped into the dish so that's the direct prophecy back in Psalm 41. Then dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas Ascaria, son of Simon. So that relays then to John, and I guess to Peter, who's watching. As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered him. What you are about to do, Jesus said,

do quickly. Can you imagine what that meant in his heart when he said that, when he knew? But no one at the mill understood why Jesus said this to him. Since Judas had charged of the money, some thought Jesus was telling him to buy what was needed for the feast or to give something to the poor. As soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out and it was night. So we're out of time, but we're going to leave it right there. We're going to pick it up, not only by finishing that thought off, but then we shifted over to Peter, who is going to be predicted of his denial that same night. So we'll talk about the difference in what happens there.

So we'll see you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple. podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.