Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1151 | Young Jase Survives Late Stage ‘Hypothermia’ & How Far is God?

Episode Date: August 26, 2025

At just nine years old, Jase found himself alone in the frozen woods, turning a childhood scare into his very first survival story—and his first glimpse that God was near. Al and Zach connect that experience to Paul’s sermon at Mars Hill in Acts 17, where creation itself testifies to the Creator’s closeness. It turns out that both Phil and Missy preached the same message at Mars Hill years apart without knowing it. The guys explore the gnostic belief that our flesh is inherently sinful, and why resurrection hope isn’t about escaping the body but God redeeming it. In this episode: Romans 1, verse 20; Acts 17; John 14, verse 2; John 14, verses 16-23; John 13, verse 3; Psalm 145, verses 17–20; John 5, verses 39–40; Romans 8, verse 8; Romans 8, verse 11; 1 Corinthians 6; Galatians 5, verses 19–24; Galatians 6, verse 14; 1 Thessalonians 5, verse 23; 1 John 5, verse 4 Chapters: 00:00–09:32 Young Jase Left Alone in the Woods 09:33–15:09 Phil & Missy Preaching on Mars Hill 15:10–23:50 How Far is God? 23:51–33:48 Our Flesh & Its Sinful Nature 33:49–41:57 Your Mind, Body & Soul Are ONE 41:58–54:54 Jesus Lives With Us & In Us — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. I feel like the band's back together. I'm back in my normal spot, Jay's. Do you ever get lonely when I'm not here? Yeah. It's, uh, thanks for answering that for me. I think breaks. This is coming from a man who once said when we left him in the blind. We went home. We got lunch. We brought it back. And somebody said, well, Jay's, where you're only out here in the blind, he said, I find that the best conversations I have are the ones I have with myself. It all goes back to when I was nine years old, and I had gone duck hunting a couple

times, and my dad was guiding at the time. And so he asked me if I wanted to go with him for a week, look, pull me out of school. So I was in after I heard that. Which our dad was always great about that anyway. We've said this before on the podcast. If you got a certain number of days, that's how many days you were sick. Exactly. And it was mostly hunting is what it was.

He deemed it duck fever. So he took me to this beat-up trailer that eventually was burned due to that we were overtaken by mice. I'm talking about tens of thousands. It would have made a great movie. It was like a camp trailer. You're sleeping there? Oh, yeah. But I slept there once.

vowed to never come back again. So about two days into this, I realized, because I didn't get to go hunting the first day, I was like, I think my dad got me out here to battle these mice and to clean this trailer up. I mean, I came here to hunt. So he just left you in the trailer by yourself. That's it.

And I was kind of going crazy, you know, so this is, we're doing some therapy here. So finally, I had to talk with him at night because they come in, they shot some dust. I was like, well, when am I going to get to go? And he's like, well, I'm working. This is how we make a living. I was like, I'd really like to go one day.

Did you ask you why you were there? You brought me out here. I didn't ask him, Zach, because it was pretty obvious. I was there to clean up and to be a handyman. It was the un-it-it-was-like the Robertson code. It's unwritten. It's like that scene in the blind when in the movie that we got Al comes out. And Phil says, you don't know the woods.

So that was your mind. You had that same moment. Well, it's like, since we're doing this thing about houses and, you know, in my father's house for many rooms, I basically was taken out of one house that I viewed as a prison, which was school. And I just moved into another prison where it's like now I'm this close to being able to duck that and I can't do it. But it was a worst prison because it was infested by mice. He went from the schoolhouse or the rat house. So what happened was I said, I'd like to go one day.

That's, I'm missing a week of skin. school out of this. Then I was like trying to make him feel guilty. You know, I'm like, he said, I'll tell you what? He said, the last day, I'll let you go. Well, I thought I would go with them, but he had, he had like clients every day. Yeah. So, and it happened to be the coldest day. A front came through. I mean, it was below freezing. The wind was howling. And before daylight, he carried, I'm in a boat with six men here, and he drops me off. at the base of a tree. Look, with no flashlight, it's dark.

And he putters, I'm nine years old. This is now conjuring up a lot of images in my own mind, Jay. Ow, I start climbing this tree. And, of course, when you're a kid, everything seems bigger. Yeah. And I'm like, I think I'm going to the top of this tree. And, I mean, I realize at some point, if I fall, I'm dying, and there's no one here And there are things out there to eat you.

Yeah. But, you know, it's more of the, so cold. I get up into the top of that tree, which was at least, I would say, 40 feet up in that tree. And it's just an old beat-up blind, no brush on it, you know. And that was the coldest day of my life. I had one pair of old coveralls, non-insulated. This was pre-clothing deals. We had only what we could scound.

I was by myself until noon. And so when they came to get me, two ducks got up out of my decals. And my dad started hollering. Why didn't you shoot those ducks? Well, what he didn't realize is that in that morning, at some point I had to take a leak. And I was so cold that I couldn't get my zipper back up

on my cover off. And those two ducks came in without me calling, and I was so cold. You couldn't see. I literally couldn't raise my gun. I mean, I was at first stages of hypothermia. What is the statute of limitations for child abuse say? Well, I mean, you know what? Therapist once told me that all behaviors explainable in its context, and so now...

We're really diving into the deep... I mean, it's just good for... It's just good, because I remember how mean you are. and now I realize you had you had so much pain and trauma in life that you had to come out. But Jay's just described every deer hunt that I was ever owned as a child. That's why some people don't like, huh? Oh, my goodness. I mean, it ruined me for it.

Now I can, Jays finally taught me into just going out and watching them. But for years, I could not even go because my experience was just like Jace described. And then dad would be like, where were you looking? Were you watching? I was, I would know. I was frozen. I had hypothermia pre-sleep. I was just minutes away from dying in my sleep.

I felt that way. Maybe it seems bigger than that, but I accurately described my memory of it. But I told you that story because I thought I was alone in a pretty terrifying place. And I thought... And you survived. I survived.

Yeah. Which helped you to be alone in the studio now, which is where we start. So, yeah, every time y'all are not here, I'm looking around and think, well, it's better than that truth. that I was in at nine years old. Some days in here it's very cold.

I will say Maddie keeps it very cold in here. But you know, a part of me, because they were shooting about every 20 minutes also. Oh, yeah, so you're listening to that. So I'm listening to people. Yeah, that's bad. And I just kind of took in all the beauty of it. And I'm going to be honest here.

I think it was one of the seeds first planted in my brain, considering I think we read Romans one last time. Just don't. Based on what has been made. Now, think about that phrase. Romans 1, where's that, verse 20, 21. I think so. That all men are without excuse.

I just took in the beauty of creation. And look, a little suffering brings clarity to the mind. It does. And you realize that you're vulnerable. And I thought, wow. Yeah, Romans 1.20. Somebody made this. By the way, I went down a rabbit hole.

about a week ago on Romans 1, based on that verse, because it says the wrath of God is being revealed. Right. Against all who suppress the truth, and they neither glorify God or give him thanks. Because they're ignoring what they see is kind of... But you know what I found fascinating? From Romans 1, 18, to 32.

So how many verses is that? 14 or 15. 15 probably. Yeah, 15 verses. do you know how many times people or a, I don't know what the grammar is for that, or they or them or men or women? You know how many times that that's mentioned in those 15 verses? 35 times.

And so you're like, I just, if you look at it from being a human on our planet, because that's what he's kind of focusing on, that you can see my divine qualities. Right. You can see them. And you see all this sin that happens and the lack of thankfulness. And you're the problem. Yeah.

35 times. You've caused this or it wouldn't, I mean, I just thought that was fascinating. It is. I don't know why I what it relates to it. I'm so glad you brought this up, which is why I love the podcast, the weeks I'm preaching, because I'm preaching Sunday, but I'm kind of wrapping up the book of Joshua. And Joshua, interestingly, at the end of the book,

basically says, if you can't look around and see what God has done and brought you to this point and see how dysfunctional the culture you came into was, I don't know what else to tell you. But it's just what you just described. It's like, and yet, shockingly, a few years goes by, and we get into the book of judges,

and it's worse than ever. I mean, so people do forget the various things that they see. It's just a, you think, how could you? But all it takes is a generation. Well, I think our religious culture has kind of contributed to this because, you know, I preached. I say preached, whatever you want to call it, Sunday night at, I told you about that event I did. And I started actually, because they asked me to do it on Act 17. Well, X-17.

Because they've heard me probably many times, you know. That's one of your go-to. Oh, I just... It's what does Xax go-to? Well, it's Zach's only apologetic study in the book of Acts, so he's got to hang his head on it. I mean, the whole time is they're just preaching Jesus. I mean, the same thing.

Remember how Phil used to go through the book of Acts? He's like, let's see how many times they preach the gospel in the book of Acts. 45 minutes later, because it is almost every... Every other verse. They preach him crucified, resurrected. What are you going to do about it? You know, over and over and over and over. Then all of a sudden in Acts 17, kind of an apologetic speech comes out.

Right. And, of course, I told the story about Missy reading that when we went to Athens, because that's the setting there. And she read that. It was me and old Larry Bowes, and we had a little team of people, when she read it, and I mean, she's getting misty-eyed and we're getting teared up. We're at the same rock. Because if you ever go to Athens, Greece, and get on that rock and read that passage and

imagine 2,000 years ago. Because the Acropolis is right above you so you can see it. Paul, given that speed, you see the set. You actually see how it was functional where you're on the rock. All these people are below. She reads that chapter. I know we've shared this before. but and here's this Russian voice out of nowhere because it's a it's a tourist place he's like I don't

agree with that but he said it booming like well we look around it's just one guy has stopped and listened and said I don't agree with that and you're like Shaq who what what and she read Act 17 that speech that Paul gave you know the Lord of heaven and earth does not live in temples by hand. You know, it goes on. He's given all men life and breath and everything else from one man. He made all nations of men. And it gets down to the, it says we're God's offspring. And then it's like he said a day, well, he would judge the world. He's given proof by raising Jesus from the dead. And here's a response. I don't agree with that. Yeah. And so Missy had a very good answer to that. She said, then why are you here?

which he then shared, you know, how much pain and suffering he had had. He's like, everything in my life up until this point has been abused and killed. I mean, he was a better human. And he said, I don't believe there's a guy. And then ask him, well, why are you here? Which is a great question. Yeah, and it turned out to be a one-hour study once Larry Bowes. I mean, Missy got really mad because I didn't.

like come to a rescue but i was like maybe you were doing fine but i just sent you off picture look at that picture i sent you we'll put it on the screen mattie you can i'll send it to you too dad yeah i don't think this has ever been seen before this picture i took it um when we were at mars hill i don't think i've ever shared it publicly but it's an incredible incredible picture because when dad did it we were filming and but we were kind of guerrilla filming because we weren't supposed to be filming up there and um before it you know something you're going to reproduce. And but so the people thought that was just like giving a speech.

And so everybody started clapping and cheering. Remember that people were crying? Yeah, they were a bit. The crowd gathered around. I got so into my story. I forgot the point I was making. The point is in that sermon on Sunday night, I asked a question. I said, how far is God?

It's the first thing I said. Because the last time I was there, I asked a question. I said, if you close your eyes and picture of God, what do you see? The answers were quite revealing. But in this question, I was like, how far is God away from us? Which nobody said anything. I really wasn't looking for an answer. I just wanted them to think. But in that sermon in Acts 17, Paul said something. I want to tie this back to Romans 1 and where we're at John 14. In Acts 17, in verse, verse 26, that's the part where it said.

It's already said he's given man life, breath, and everything else. He's already said he made the world and everything in it, which is going back to Romans 1, you see, where he's like. And so then he's like, and from he's giving him life, breath, everything else, then from one man he made every nation of men that they should live on the earth. That's where we're at. determine the time set for him. The exact places where they should live.

He did this so men would seek him and reach out for him. And then there's this phrase, though he is not far from each one of us. So why would he say that? Yeah, and he even qualifies it. For in him we live and move and have our being. Yeah. And what I was going to say is in our religious,

I think we tend to have God way off. And maybe if we understand everything and figure this out and do the right thing, then we can go way off to him one day. And when you read something like that, you're like, it doesn't seem like he's very far. Yeah. It's close. I actually had a psalm that says,

if you turn to him and call on him, he is near. Where is that at? You see that a lot. Oh, yeah. So which is it? You know, if he's not very far and he's near, I don't know if I ever wrote that down. Zach, you know what the title of my sermon is, Sunday?

You're going to like this. What's up? The end, not yet now. Here it is. Here it is. Psalm 145. 17 through 20. It's very, very good.

So you said, what are you saying? What I'm saying is when I was in that blind at nine years old and unable to actually hunt due to, I mean, I had a God came near experience just based on what was made. I looked around and I started thinking, you know, I hadn't given my life to the Lord. I'm just looking. He seemed near.

You know, when you think about all the critters that are functioning, the plants are coming up. I mean, if you ask a botanist, you know, how does a flower get here? You'll be surprised that at some point you're going to realize he'll give you all the scientific reason and all the, all the, the verb is all. Yeah. But you'll realize at some point, he doesn't know. He can describe the process. Exactly. He does not know how that flower got here.

It is simply unexplainable. That's a good point. And so, you know, when you get to John 14, and he's talking about where we left off with these two houses that are described with many rooms, but they're in different places. One of them is in heaven, because he's like, I'm going there to prepare a place for you.

Well, we know where he went. I mean, this echoes John 13 in verse 3, where it says he knew that he came from God and was returning to God. So the whole context is, I'm leaving. Well, where's he going? So actually, Al, when it says in my father's house, where you're like, where does the father live? Well, he lives in heaven, right?

But then when you read the other place where this Greek word is used in my father's house from many rooms, so we're like, well, that's, you know, he's going. there and their rooms, and I'm, I'm going to make a place for you there. You'll have a presence through me. Right. But then he says in 1423, I don't think it's by accident. Why is he using this word that's only used twice in the Bible? Yeah, that's where we left off last year. Yeah, to say, my father, if you, if you, if anyone loves me, this is 1423, he will obey my teaching, my father will love him

and we will come to him and make our home. So same phrase as there are many rooms in my father's house. There are homes. Now we're talking about on earth. Right. Because we're here on earth.

Correct. Well, he's coming. Well, we know that's through the Holy Spirit. Because the part in between 14.1 and 2 and verse 23 is this introduction to the spirit. But in light of how, far is he when he says this in 1416 so now we're in the middle i'm going to go to the father and i'm going to

go to the father and i'm going to ask him and he will give you another counselor to be with you forever so how far is that you say well i don't know if he's with me evidently it's not very far right but then he then he goes on to say the world cannot accept him because it neither sees him nor knows him, but you know him, for he lives with you, but then it says it, and we'll be in you.

Well, how close is that? Can't get any closer. You can't get any closer. So when I asked that question, how far is God, it's a really good question if you go down that rabbit hole, and all of a sudden,

you're talking about help your prayer life, you realize you have the presence of God in you, and you're in the presence of God, God the Father through Jesus, it gives you this picture of heaven and earth being joined through God and people as Jesus being the intersection. It's interesting that Acts 17 part, the way you could tie that in too. I've always thought this is really interesting. You mentioned that that's the place where he gives the importance.

apologetic, but if you actually look at the, there's about three, two or three chapters here where Paul's going to different cities. And so Athens, the first one he goes to in Acts 17 is Thessalonica. And he goes into the synagogue of the Jews. And he gives them another type of apologetic. It's not the same one they gave the Greeks, but it was an apologetic. He just did it from the scriptures. And so basically he pulls out the Hebrew scriptures and he reasoned with them from, the scriptures about why Christ is who he said he was and why he had to come, why he had to be killed and buried and raised on the third day. But he's using the scriptures, but I think it's interesting where he goes.

He goes to the synagogue, and the synagogues happened. I believe the way they came about was after the first temple was destroyed, they created these kind of micro communities where they could have a place, a gathering place to do their prayers. They didn't do sacrifices. You can only do the sacrifice in the temple. But it was kind of the meeting place where they would meet with God. And so it's interesting that Paul always goes to those center places of where that community

is happening. Where is man meeting with God? And in the Jewish case, it was obviously the temple was the apex of that, but also these synagogues were also those places. And so he goes to Thessalon Nica, where does he go? He goes to the place where they're going to, where they're going to be meeting at. them when you get to Acts 17 where he goes into the Ariopagus, but that was the place where the Greek philosophers went to meet with God. They had all, remember they had the statues up and one to an unknown God? So that was the place where they went to meet with their version of how they understood God to be, which they had a lot of different gods, but that was kind of the Greco-Roman

pagan culture at the time. But if you were to say, where's the center place of where do you guys meet? up to actually meet with God, it would have been on Mars Hill at the Ariopagus. Then he goes to Corinth in Acts 17, and guess where he goes? The synagogue, Acts 184. And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath trying to persuade the Jews and the Greeks. Well, then it was a starting point in every city. You're right.

Every city. Then he goes to Antioch. Where did he go? Now he himself entered the synagogue and reasoned with the Jews. Then he goes to Ephesus. Where does he go? Verse 8, chapter 19, and he entered the synagogue and continues speaking out boldly for three months reasoning and persuading with them. Guess what he was persuading them about. The kingdom of God. That's what the scripture says. So I think it's interesting that Paul, when he is on his missionary journey, that he goes to the place where you would think God would meet with man. and he's actually telling them

what he's actually telling the Jews and the Greeks the same thing in a different way he's saying God now that's this whole point God doesn't live in your temples built by man's hands I mean he tells the he tells the Greeks that he tells the Jews he tells everybody that he's like God is going to live in human beings which is the port rat in the gospel John John 14 that's what that's the case

that's unfolding that Jesus is going to make I got to go because if I don't come he's not going to come but if he comes, you're going to live in you. Would you know where he got the idea from, Zach? You remember when Jesus went into the synagogue and started reading Isaiah 53 about himself? Oh, yeah. Remember he was reading the passage, and they were like, who's the guy talking about? He just looks at him as like, I mean, he did it himself.

I'm the guy, yeah. Well, so basically you conclude there's this big house with two locations, and we're rooming. with the creator of the universe. Or he's rooming with us. Yeah. I did that on purpose. Yeah, I got that. Well, because we're rooming with him in heaven in the God's house.

But he's rooming with us here as God's house through the Holy Spirit. That's what, this is actually true. But if you, if someone came up to you and said, oh, you know, I just got into college or whatever, you know, who's your roommate? So, well, I'm rooming with Jesus. Or he's rooming with me, depending on your, you know, John 14, 2 and John 1423. Yeah. People would think you were literally crazy.

Well, that's why what we said in the last podcast is having a place, yes. Is having a person? Yes. I mean, they're like, what? I mean, well, when you think about the consummation of the kingdom, the not yet part, when I try to imagine this, it blows my mind. that the whole earth will be the temple of God. The entire earth will be the temple of God and heaven will be the,

all of it. But the earth is going to be a fit. It's not going to. A new heaven and a new earth. It's not going to vaporize into a spiritual ethos. It's a physical, we're talking about a physical place. Yeah. And God will meet with us in a physical place,

and there will be not anywhere that we can go. And before you say that's, before you say what Zach's saying is just crazy, because some people probably thinks that. You make a statement like that, they're like, that's crazy. You see what Jesus's resurrected body was like, and it's tricky. He's like, he's like a flesh, I mean, a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see, I have, but he died to the flesh. Which, by the way, is why he was the first born over all creation. Yeah. Something new.

And remember we read last time, Luke 24, about when he's like, they were having trouble believing him out of joy and amazement. And he's like, you got some fish? Well, you have to have some type of body, even though it's been glorified and it's imperishable, to eat and digest fish. Same thing on Road to Amas. Remember the two? They're walking along?

What do he say? He stayed and had dinner with him. Then he vanished. What? The stay and eat dinner part, we would get the vanishing part. That's new. It's happening. Yeah.

So, Zach, I had the same. I reached over and showed me the notes where you went to Thessalonica and you. I did the same thing. I had a slightly different point I made because when you said he reasoned with them through the scriptures, about Thessalonica? He did. It says, I wanted to read it because it says he reasoned with them in 172

from the scriptures. He explained and proving that Christ had to suffer and rise from the dead. But then when he got to Berea, well, the same thing comes up. It says in verse 11, yeah, they were more noble because with great eagerness they examined the scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

Well, so I went to John 5 in verse, you know it's one of my favorite verses in the Bible, 39 and 40, when Jesus is being persecuted, and he's like, you're studying these scriptures diligently, which is the same language with the Brinian. Which was a positive for the Bereans. Yeah. And here, he's using it as a negative. negative because you think that by them you possess eternal life, which always gets me, because we have so many phrases about the Bible.

And you hear people say, oh, you got to preach the whole Bible, not part, all these little witty sayings, you know, about cover to cover, you know. And I usually say, well, what about that part where the Job's three friends were just spewing heresy? And God said at the end, everything they said was stupid. Yeah, for about 20 chapters. Well, if you bumble over there and start quoting that as Bible, or for truth today, yeah, God said, don't listen to them.

That was all just absolutely false. What about some of Solomon's Depression Journal and Ecclesiase? Exactly. Point being what Jesus said in 40, the end of 39 of John 5, these are the scriptures that testify about me. Yet you refuse to come to me to have life. And so point being, to Zach's point about the temple, he then says, let me tell you about this unknown God in 1724,

and he's like, he is Lord of heaven and earth, and he does not live in temples built by hands. Well, here's Jesus and John 5 saying, you're studying these scriptures trying to justify whatever, eternal life. They're about me. Yeah. Well, the temple in John 2, three chapters earlier, he makes this comment about destroying the temple. And they're like, what?

They're looking at a physical temple where, to Zach's point, Jesus and his followers continually went to where people would go to meet God. And he makes that famous line. I am the temple. Yeah. I am the place where people meet. which is our point. And I think where that Jason and I've been

having a sidebar conversation that I won't get too deep into because you're talking out of rabbit hole but yeah I see you can give them a thumbnail but don't because we spend a lot of time talking about that.

But I think that we have to be careful with this phrase that when we use it because you got to be careful what you mean by it when we talk about the corruption of the flesh

the flesh in and of itself is not inherently bad. If it was, then Jesus incarnated into something inherently bad. You're right. And let me throw in another verse. And he referred to his resurrected body in Luke 24.

He said, look at my hands and feet. A ghost does not have flesh. It's the same word as John 114. Yeah. And the same word that he says, what is that where it says flesh and spirit he makes that analogy what's the verse i'm looking for where it says the flesh is weak but the spirit is or whatever that is the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak yeah and uh when he when they're having the prayer and they're going to sleep that's

well even when he says in john three when he says flesh gives birth to flesh with the spirit well people read that and they're like oh well flesh is bad well he didn't say that no he just Well, I mean, Augustine would say it, like, that when Paul uses, I think he's right, when Paul uses the term flesh, he's not speaking about the physical body, but the corrupted will. But if you read that as like the physical, actual DNA in flesh is evil, well, that's a form of Gnosticism, right? I mean, that's what, isn't that the heresy of Gnosticism? Remind us what Gnosticism is, because I, every time, you'll tell me every time, but I quickly rent it. So, yeah, it's essentially that ancient heresy this addressed in scripture where that the spirit is good and then the flesh is inherently evil. And so it's a separation of the spirit and the body or of the physical world.

But the Christian teaching is not that we're trying to escape the corrupted evilness of the physical reality and move into the spiritual transcendent. You know, it's actually the Christian teaching is that God made the earth and he's. said, it is good. He made human flesh, and he said it's very good. So it's not, when Paul speaks of the flesh, he's talking about the corrupted will, not the actual human flesh of our bodies. The physical world is good because Christ was pleased. The fullness of God was pleased to dwell in a body. We have to remember that because that's the hope of the new creation, If you don't get that right, Zayp, you'll miss the power of the resurrection. Because you go to 1st Corinthians 15, and you'll see that people will say, well, yeah, that's not

talking about your physical body. That's talking about your spiritual body. And you're like, wait a minute. Because it says that. Right. It says it's what I think you should read that. It's a natural body. It's raised, a spiritual body.

But it's still flesh. I mean, that's the part people are. Because I keep going back to Jesus, eating that fish. Exactly. That fish is a, the whole thing hinges on fish. I think about it. The word you're looking for, though, it's a glorified body capable since Jesus goes to the right hand of God and makes the presence of God available for humans. Because then you explain all those verses that says, well, a man can't look at God.

He'll die. Remember that in the Old Testament, you know, and the crack of the rock, the cleft of the rock. and he's like, and he barely saw the side. And even in the New Testament, where it says God lives in unapproachable light. What's it talking about? Well, people make that a spiritual thing, but I think you literally would be radiated somehow now. Well, you know, it's funny as Romans, Paul in Romans actually gives us a really good understanding of all this. When he talks about the creation itself, and he speaks of what now we know is,

called the law of entropy, which is the second law of thermodynamics that things decay over time. I mean, you put an apple on a shelf, and over time it just decays and rots. Our bodies, they're decaying. Everything is breaking down. The whole universe is breaking down. It is a law of the universe, and Paul addresses it in Romans 8 when he says the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay. So the creation will survive, the creation will thrive, the creation,

The physical creation will be a physical creation forever, but it will operate under a new law of physics. One being, it will not be bound by the laws of thermodynamics, which is actually incredible to think about, that God will reshift our understanding of physics. And the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay, which means it won't decay over time. It won't tear up over time. I think it's probably the opposite is going to happen, is that it's going to grow and flourish, and we're going to see that garden, that cultivation, that having dominion

and go take the garden and expand it across the world. I think the Lord's going to say, go take the garden and expand it across the universe. I mean, just keep on, this thing's never going to end. We're just going to keep on expanding out the garden into an ever-expanding universe. It shows you how strong this thing still holds on

after all these thousands of years. Because how many times have you been on a funeral, where the guy says, no, don't, you know, this casketer, they're not here anymore. This isn't them. And I'm always sitting there thinking, no, that's still them. It's still the body. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

It's the, but it's that mindset where you just want to shift out and say that body doesn't mean anything. You know, wait a minute. I mean, somebody told me that at when dad's funeral, they were like, you know, he's not, that's not him. He's not here anymore. I said, no, that's him. Yeah, that's part of him. That's part of him.

And that part will be resurrected, and it's going to be amazing. That's a really good point. Every funeral I go to, they say that. How many times if you heard that said? It hangs on. It's that flesh is bad. It's got to get back in the way. And I want to give, I know, because we've all had these discussions with people who believe that.

And one of the verses they use is Romans 8, 8, which says, now, if you just read this verse, on its own. And not in the context of Romans 8 total. Well, and I think in the context of what we're talking about in John 14. I mean, look, I think our mind has trouble grasping when Jesus said, look, I'm going to be with you and in you. Yeah. Because I'm leaving.

I realize that's a difficult thing to wrap your head around. All right, I'm leaving. Don't panic because I'm going to be with you and in you. Well, most people think, well, that must have going to come with you. way later. Yeah. But he's like, no, I'm going to be with you and in you because I'm going to send you my spirit.

Yeah. When was the spirit poured out? Acts 1. Yeah. Acts chapter 1 and 2. And then all these passages were reading in Acts 17 and all these churches and he's going to the temple. Well, the spirit's involved.

It's the theme. And he's setting that up here in John 14. By the way, it's the same spirit who carried men along through prophecy. The Spirit's been here the whole time. Yeah. Right. So I want to read this Romans 8-8, because on its own, it seems to say, oh, well, yeah, flesh is bad. All of it, any context.

Those controlled by the flesh or in the realm of the flesh, some translation. NIV says sinful nature. But it's the same word for flesh. Cannot please God. Yeah. So they're like, see, you're in the flesh. It's impossible. You can't.

that's the conclusion. It's like flesh bad. So you've got to get away from that. But hang on here. So if you read, I don't know whether to go backwards or forwards. Let's go forwards. So it says, you however, you however are controlled not by the flesh by the spirit. What are we talking about controlled?

Well, then he expands on what that means. So you're in the realm. How are you controlled by the flesh? Watch what this says. So it says, you, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the spirit. This is the same spirit he's promising to give you in John 14. Correct. If the Spirit of God, if, if the Spirit of God lives in you.

And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, well, he doesn't belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, well, I just read, well, how is Christ getting into me? He just said in John 14, I'm going to go to the. the father, I'm going to send my spirit. And he said, look, if you love me and trust me, me and the father will come to you and make our home. How? Through his spirit.

They're all tied together, spirit, father, son. But if Christ is in you, here's the key phrase, your body is dead because of sin. Yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. So when you throw in another verse like, where's the one in Galatians,

where it says, yeah, Galatians 5. The Acts, verse 19. It's the same concept. The acts of the flesh are obvious, and you have all these sins. I mean, list them. Yeah, but then he gets 22, look, but the fruit of the Spirit, and there's love.

But watch what he says in verse 24. Those who belong to Christ Jesus, same word belong, have crucified the flesh. That's why your body's dead. Yeah. with its passions and desires. And so when you go back to Romans 8, you see all this,

those who are governed by the flesh, those who live according to the flesh. Well, he says that earlier. That's why I said I didn't know whether to go backwards or forward. Well, yeah, if you're living by the flesh, what are you going to do? Well, whatever feels good to the flesh, you're going to go out and do it, the desires and the passions.

But what I want to say is even in Galatian 6, listen to this. after he says that about you've crucified the flesh. In Galatian 6, verse 14, it says, may I never boast in the cross of the Lord, may I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus. Now watch this little phrase, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

It makes me think of that 1st John 5, what is that, for everyone born of God has overcome the world. Who is it that overcomes the world? You say, what's your point? I think in John 14, in this introduction of the Spirit, look, he's going back to John 3 with the conversation with Nicodemus about this battle of the flesh versus the Spirit. He's say, I'm going to, there's a baptism of the Holy Spirit.

that's going to happen. Well, because the battle between the two is a, here's the battle. It's not that the body is inherently evil. In fact, what does he say in Romans 811? He says that the spirit will actually give life to your mortal body. So your spirit's, your body's dead because of sin, but through the spirit, he will make, he will give life to your mortal body. So clearly the body's not evil or he wouldn't give life to it. So how does that, how do you understand that? I understand this to be that the problem with the flesh is not inherently the flesh. It's what is your intention with the flesh? And if your intention with the flesh is to dine alone without communion with God, then you've missed the point of the body. You've missed the whole purpose of the body,

as Paul instructs in 1st Corinthians chapter 6, that the body's not meant for things like sexual immorality. It's actually meant for the Lord, the Lord for the body. And God who raised the Lord will also raise us up by his power. And he says there, he says, flee from sexual sin, flee from sexual morality for all sins. Every other sin a person commits is outside his body. But the sexually immoral person, this is his argument, he sins against his own body. So the body's not clearly bad. It's how this person is particularly using their body. Or, Don't you know, here's this rationality, that your body is, your body, your human body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you. This is John 14, this is it, whom you have from God.

You're not your own. Your body of the price of glorified God with your body. Well, you've also swerved into the flawed argument of the Greeks at the very beginning because what they were really struggling with, they were just saying, well, you know, the body does what the body does. The mind does what the mind. They were splitting it up like that. What they didn't understand was in missing the Holy Spirit's role in this is that their spirit and soul were the corrupted part anyway. The body was only following any reaction what the spirit wants to do.

So they even missed out on the principal argument of their own makeup. And you know what's funny about that? There's a ton of research coming out right now. This is so interesting to me. And I'd use this phrase at dinner the other night with some people. They actually said there's a book, with this title. Never read the book. The only thing about it, not endorsing it, but

I just said, I just said, your body keeps the score. That's what I said. Your body keeps score. And you think about, like, and Al, you've done enough pastoral ministry where how many times you sat with people who have been sexually

abused, who have gone through issues in their life? Like, the body kept a score. You think, man, your body does, remember, there's a connection. The body and the soul are not, if you're a human, that is what it means. to be human. Right.

Which is the Holy Spirit. I'm pushing back a little bit. I'm agreeing with that what everybody said, but I'm giving a, not pushing back. I'm giving another thought. So like you tell you, I found this verse.

First Sessions 5, 24, where it says, or 23, may your whole spirit, soul, and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. I simply want to make

a small little thought here. You can't carve those three things up And you're like, okay, God gave me three points to have ready when he comes back. Because I wanted to find this verse because it's like, have those three things, no, it's, that's you. That's you. That's one. Which is my point of what they didn't understand that you were made up of three components.

My point was- Well, you're made up three components, kind of like God, but he's one. Right, but they were dividing that out in their own minds, which was actually their own spirit. See what I'm saying? I see what you're saying. So that was the flawed part of their argument is they didn't know this. And if they had understood what we know now from Scripture, they would understand that you are one and whole.

You can't just say, my spirit's good, my body bad. Oh, exactly. They did separate it. They did the thing you're saying. I was making sure that's what we were saying. It's like when he says the Shama or whatever, he's like, love the Lord you go with all your heart, soul, mind, and string. You're like, okay, I got four, three.

I'm doing pretty good on this one. Yeah. But I think if you try to go down, you're over analyzing his point, which is just the makeup of us. But look, I think we do the same thing in reverse to Jesus' death. Some people only focus on the forgiveness of sins. Well, that's a travesty. Yes, we love that. Like the John 12 passage that says this hour had came and you heard this voice, you know,

Well, then he says, now judgment has come on the world. And so people say, yep, see that? Well, if you read 2 Corinthians 5, it says that God, through Jesus' death, was reconciling the world to himself. Right. There was a lot of things that were accomplished from the true God, is my point. Redemption, deliverance, forgiveness, reconciliation. Right.

Look, judgment. There's more facets to it than just saying, well, that's it. You know, here's one aspect of what that. And in essence, this entire podcast has been a preview what we're going to be talking about in 14, 15, 16, because I love that you brought up the verse in first session. What is the way that your spirit, soul, and body all one are kept blameless, only through the Holy Spirit that indwells you? I mean, it's the only thing that can possibly be the game changer for us is to have God in us.

That's the whole point. Yeah. That's why it's called the sanctifying work of the spirit. Which is why I asked how far is God? Because look, if you think he's a long way away, you've missed something about the Holy Spirit. No doubt. That was my whole point. Yeah.

He's not, I mean, granted, there's different aspects, creation. Yes, you see God pretty close to you. And God reigning in feeding all the living creatures and all the thing that's going on. Not to mention all the kings of the earth that he's loring over. But he's giving you his spirit. There's never going to be a way to get closer than that. All right, Maddie, we're out of time. How about that?

Were you lonely without us in the studio? One podcast later. Well, see, Al, look, now, Al. You haven't burdened yourself, and man, did that lead to quite the Bible study? Look, you do realize that if you have the Holy Spirit of God, you're never alone. I like it. So when you say, were you lonely, that was a 49-minute answer. I had the Holy Spirit the whole time, so technically I love it when it all comes back together.

We'll see you next time on Unashame. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.