Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 118 | Phil's Most Unusual and Creative Baptisms, Offensive Jesus, and Slaves to Sin

Episode Date: July 22, 2020

Phil gets plenty of unusual baptism requests, but wheelchairs, tracheotomies, and fighting dogs are no match for him. Jase shares the story of baptizing a woman who suffered from a crippling fear of water. And Phil, Al, Jase, and Zach discuss urban flight, why Jesus was offensive to so many people, the difference between believing in God and believing God, the truth about freedom and slavery, and the line only God could deliver. Pre-order Jesus Politics by Phil Robertson: http://jesuspoliticsbook.com See episodes of "Unashamed with Phil Robertson": https://bit.ly/2J4XsiX   See clips from Phil's TV show "In the Woods with Phil": https://bit.ly/2PNM6k1 - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? I was actually listened to the radio on the way down here, and they said this is the greatest flight out of urban cities since 1950. They're leaving. And it's all thanks to you.

I figured you didn't want to take credit for that because you said, I've been to a town. He's a prophet. I don't know that they would all start leaving. but good for them. Put your ears on because we can't. What was the town? No,

all towns. Because any are the bit, they said they're all moving to the suburbs. You got, I saw like over 500% increase in violent crimes in Seattle, on the autonomous zone. It's over 300% in New York City. I mean,

it's pretty scary. Well, when you, when you're saying, we want to give less money to the police force. And then at the same time, Yeah. We're going to, you know, having stuff going on.

It may be time to go. I would be going. I mean, if I was in the middle of the city. And the coronavirus. Because if you just buy sheer logic, if you're in town with a lot of people, you have a greater chance to get it. They're like, I'm out of here. Well, there was a, there's a young guy that reached out that watches or listens to our podcast,

and he's in Manhattan. And I was like, dude, man, just be safe, you know, because he was like, but he's, he's seeking. You know, I can't, I should have wrote his name about. But how do you do that? People now in stores are telling me, be safe. I'm like, as opposed to what? What does that mean?

Be safe. Well, that what they're saying is, good luck. I mean, like, there's so much going on. Let's change that. See, you, you were saying it didn't even realize because everybody's saying that now. What they're saying is, well, I hope you make it. I hope it works out for you. Be safe.

Very ambiguous. I'm like, I got in a dilemma Sunday morning. I'm saying that in jest. You don't get a dilemma. No, somewhat of a dilemma because they said, feel like this guy wants to say something to you. Back there. So I walked back in.

He and his son were. Now, where were you? We was in the structure on the side of the road. Oh, y'all met Sunday? We met Sunday. You gone to town. Well, that's twice. One of the structure on the side of the road.

And anyway, I said, It's not a church building. So I walked over to him, I said, what brings into these parts? Where are you from? He said, Northern Tennessee. And he said, I've been watching y'all's podcast and Blaze TV. And he said, I've come all the way down there. Mr. Alton wants you to baptize me.

So I'm standing there. And I'm thinking the government says we've got to have social distancing I mean, I'm supposed to have a mask on. Six feet. You got to baptize him from six foot away. Well, you got to have some long arms. I got to baptize him and this guy was a bull. About 275, I thought, 300 maybe.

And you don't even have a bicep. You got a unise. No, I got a half arm over here. Well, I don't want to show it, Jason. I look at it. But anyway, so I preach the gospel. Make sure you understood. I stressed love a lot.

So after it's over, somebody said they drained while the pandemic was going on. Somebody drained the baptistery. Oh, no. Well, I'm sitting. That's a bad time. Never do that. I'm sitting run out of water, no water. So I'm three and four miles, three miles from the river or whatever.

I said, well, I said, what we'll do is after this is over here, I said, my man, to get behind my truck. And we're going to get you to some water. So I took off. Well, I ended up, you know, you have to grab somebody to baptize them. So I'm thinking it just crossed my mind. I was thinking these government edicts. And I quickly reverted to Psalm 91. 10,000 will fall at your right hand.

Back on Psalm 91. Thousands on your left, but it will not come near you. I said, I'm telling this guy. I've been telling him since he walked in. God is going to raise you from the dead. And for me to say, he's going to raise you from the dead, but I got to go with the government officials who say, I'm not supposed to get around near you.

He's going to raise you from the dead, but this pandemic may kill us both, this coronavirus. Yeah. I just said, what am I talking about? The one who raised his dead men are going to punish us because the guy comes down there and put his faith in Jesus? I'm like. Well, even if you died, it wouldn't be a punishment.

You'd be in. And it would be the best thing you could ever do. It's what I always said. I don't view death as a negative. So here I am. Somebody says, well, he's an idiot. But when it comes to how I'm going to roll based on some edict, I'm going to read the Bible and see if it stacks up with it.

And if it doesn't stack up with it, I'm not going to mess with it. I don't care what they're saying. What government official where they put you in jail? All right. They put up the Apostle Paul in jail repeatedly. And I may end up there, but that's fine. There'll be some mayor you can talk to. So that's your.

just my take on it. So how did it work? Did you have a little trouble getting them up? How did that? Kellett was there on the scene. He can tell you about it. The immersing, the immersing went smooth, but 275, 300, you know, I decided after we wrestle a little bit. I did the little guy? Did you just let him go? I finally got him up out of. Sometimes you just got to let him go. I said, well, I baptized the guy. He's about five. I baptized the guy. He's about five. But I was thrilled to baptize the dude. And by the way, we had baptized two more after we met before you got there. So the burial part was extended is what you're telling me.

There was a lengthy barrier. No, that's what I was going to say. I baptized a guy that was about twice that. And I, because he was like, well, how's this going to work? I was like, no problem. Just trust me. I'm going to get you under. And I was thinking, and then you're on your own.

I've looked at a few of them. And when I see the great big ones, I'll say, I get, I said, need another man on this one. Because sometimes you can tandem. Yeah. So what about the guy? Remember the little preaching student at that time? And he had that big old hoss of a man.

But his problem, he didn't let go. So now you're drowning him. I mean, we're beyond bad times. Once he went down, there was a lot of racket. And then they both. But no one was coming up. One of them, one time Tom in was baptizing the guy, the WFR. And he took him down.

And then the guy just took off like a fish. Tommy said, I just lost him. He took up. He was like a torpedo. He went like this. Well, he went, you know, he hit far to the back of that thing. He went, boom.

He just forehead to the back of the baptism. I mean, it was there. I saw it. Remember that? It was a reverberation. Like he was sweet. And when he came up, look, you could see the noggin getting bigger as he talked. Literally when he was walking up the steps, like the nod is growing.

What was the story? It was you that was telling me about baptizing the guy that he had a, with Sanponero, Dr. Sanpenter, and he had a trait. No, he had a... He was on the cruise thing. I have baptized them. They couldn't get out of the wheelchair. Some guy pulled up me, and they said, there's a guy in the parking lot at my house right here.

And I said, what's he won't? He said, well, he wanted to talk to you. He said, he can't get out of the car right now, but he's in a wheelchair. And they got him inside a van. And I walked out there. I said, yes, sir, what can I do for you? And he said, Mr. Elbson, he said, I've been trying to... to get somebody to baptize me the last six months, but nobody will do it.

I'm like, oh, well, you've come to the right place. I said, y'all help him out of this thing. I said, listen, here's what we're going to do. I said, you're too big for us to carry you. I said, so we fixed to baptize you, the wheelchair, and everything you got with you. I said, so, but I'm going to get several men on both sides of you. So we go to the boat dock, and we just roll the, the, he's sitting in the wheelchair.

I said, we're going to, we're going to, everybody's going under and everything. I would think the hardest part of that was getting a wheelchair down that rickety thing that you, where you baptized? Why would you just get a track coat? We pull up pretty close. In the bucket. Well, I'm just saying, we got about three men on each side. I said, because guys, remember, if this wheelchair gets away from us on this boat dock,

this pretty steep boat dock, wow. I said, we're not going to feel good about this. Has anybody ever told you guys that you need your own reality TV? show. Hey, it was a very serious one. That guy, he thanked me. He was an older man. And he said, he said, after it's all over, he started calling me Phil. He said, Phil, I'm sure glad you did that. It's really a big relief off of me. He said, I read what Jesus said, go make disciples and baptize him. He said, and I thought, well, I never been baptized. He said, and he said, I was finding it hard to believe somebody wouldn't, wouldn't do it. And I said, well, you come with the right place.

We had a guy. Remember that guy? His name. One woman, was wrapped in serenia. Oh yeah, that's the ones that was talking about. She had a wood, like, I called the Sanpanero, M.D. in because I said, you know what do you do? The woman's got like a hole in her throat, and she no longer could speak. And her voice was gone because they'd operate her bad cancer, you know.

But she could, so I wrote her notes as I was studying with her. I was talking to her, and she's understanding. And I told, I wrote one little note down. I said, you're the easiest person I've ever talked to because you don't argue with me. And she grinned. She grinned at me, you know. But we wrapped her and saran wrap, even the. Yeah, the tracheco.

We couldn't stop the tracheco because that's the only way she could breathe. So, Sampanero, the doctor, she had like, what do you call them, you know, a little bags. He colostomy bag. Whatever, yeah. Had all that. So he wrapped all that in saran wrap. And then he said, I'm going to hold my hand right on that. So he baptized her with you.

He was with me. And he just went down with her just with his hand to keep the water out of the hole in her throat, you know. But it was a beautiful baptism. That's something. You know, that's the. I told her, you're going to be, when you get your glorified body, you're going to be really thankful that you did this. I said, because there'll come a day. You know what that was?

I said, there won't be any of these bags hanging on you. All that'll be over. Yeah. It's a beautiful picture. Of course, she cried. You know what I'm saying? Oh, yeah. So that's, you and Samp were like Paul and Luke.

Yep. Luke was the physician. You know, I'm sure he had some things in there during this period of time that was doing that. He's helped me from time to time on people with particular ailments. And they're scared about being baptized. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's a, yeah.

The most interesting one I ever had, I had a woman come and say that she wanted to be baptized. She said, I love Jesus, but I feel like I need to be baptized. I was like, great. It's like, you know, let's go. She said, the problem is I have a fear of water. Uh-oh. Being underwater. I was like, do you take a bath?

She's like, no. She basically just spit bath. Well, yeah. She's not going underwater. She's never been. She said, but I think that I may scream, I may holler, but I just want you to do it. And so I said, we're going to need some more men for this. And she literally, I felt like she had, because she was fighting me the whole time.

And I was like, are you sure? Because we had a pool that was only like three foot deep, like one of these old round redneck pools, you know. Oh, yeah. So I'm like, you can stand up in the water, but she wouldn't get in it. And then, but she had screamed and holler and I'd say, you know, abort the mission. She was like, no. So then I thought, she wants me to do this. She just, she just has a phobia.

So it's about four of us. By the way, Jayce, that's aquaphobia. Aquaphobia? I didn't know. I knew there had to be. I've had a few. An irrational fear. Well, this was a, it was like she had a demon until she came out of the water, which was, when you said it was a beautiful baptism, which made me think of it.

And then there was just like a peace come over. And I thought, you might have got rid of your fear of water. And she said, I might have. One of the most unusual ones I've seen. I took a little girl down there and there's about 15, 20 people standing on the bank. So she had heard the gospel. She said, I believe Jesus died if our move was resurrected. I said, well, come on, we're going to reenact your death to sin and your burial and your resurrection.

So I baptized her, and it was just quiet. No one was saying anything. It was quiet. And there had been about seven or eight dogs follow us down there. So the crowd's quiet. I'm kettle there. I'm now baptizing the name of Jesus for the mission of your sins, you know. And I said, God's going to give you a spirit.

I said, are you ready? She said, yeah. So as soon as she went down in the water, the dogs went into a fight. You know how dogs, they smitten around on each other. Well, those dogs got into about eight dogs fighting at once. They all were just like, all them dogs. There's a parable. Well, when she went down, it was quiet.

When she came up, what she heard was. dogs going, well, it scared the daylights out of her. She thought like the demons had gone into the dog pigs. So I was not trying to think of something because all the people were watching. And everybody said, well, and I said, I said, the Almighty has thrown her evil spirit, throwing them into them dogs. And that's why they're acting like, yeah. Everybody said, really?

I said, I'm just, I don't think so. But I mean, I'm just saying. I think you mentioned. They all have. Hang on that. Hang on that. Let's take a break. You know, remind them of the pigs, you know. Yeah, yeah, that's what he said. You mentioned the Great Commission earlier.

The baptism to me is the easier part. I think the hard part is the one that comes before it. Make disciples. I'm thinking about John 8. We were before, you know, we started when you were talking about. They were all good with, hey, we believe in you until, until Jesus told them who they were. You know, then they didn't want to follow. Plus that confession, Jesus,

is Lord at Romans 10, you know, if you believe in your heart, that God raising from the dead and confess with your mouth. Jesus is Lord. So we usually, well, we do. Every time we talk to them, I say, you're making a big decision here. The confession is Jesus is Lord, but I want you to say it. And we have people who are listening here. So when they make that confession, but you think about it,

Jesus is Lord, that's a mouthful. Well, think about most of this crowd that we've been talking about all the way back, when they first started gathering here, the last two or three chapters in John, I assume most of this group had probably been baptized by John's desire, John and his disciples or by Jesus' disciples. Remember over and over, we kept saying they were baptizing people, the baptism repents. Yeah, it doesn't say in this.

It doesn't say, but I'm assuming it's probably part of that same crowd. So they basically have said, we think this is something. You know, we think you're something. But then as we see, they're just jekyll and hide, like literally in one, conversation, they go from being, oh, he's got to be the guy. Yeah. You know, we got to make him the king to, well, that's no, that's no, this guy's crazy. Eat his flat, you know, all the stuff we've been talking about.

It's like a roller coaster. But you wouldn't believe it either. No. I mean, if you didn't, if you didn't see it for what it. But that's the thing about faith, though, Jay. I mean, people now have to believe. We're looking backwards, but you still got to believe it's true, you know, because I get, there's a lot of podcast listeners that are going through different faith Christ.

And they're just like, how do you believe? I mean, I'm having a hard time believing, you know. Think about verse 21, 821, I'm going, Jesus talking, I'm going away and you will look for me and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come. Just think about this kind of logic. This made the Jews ask, will he kill himself? Is that why he says? where I go, you cannot come.

They flipped it around on him. I mean, what I answer when he says, you know, look, I'm going away and you will look for me and you will die in your sin where I go, you cannot come. And the death part is probably what got him thinking suicide because they're like, what is he, you know, what is he talking about that? Is he going to kill himself? I think the place they couldn't go was in the kind of the crux of it is in verse 33. when he basically tells them, you know, you're a slave, and they're like, whoa, wait,

where Abraham's descendants and had never been enslaved to anyone, which is interesting because they had been. Yeah. They had certainly been enslaved. I mean, the history of Israel is a history of oppression and slavery. But I think that it was what he was talking about was your slave to sin. And I think they, and I think they were probably hearing that because I don't think they're talking about physical slavery because they had.

had this long history. I think what they couldn't get on board with and where their belief ended is, is whenever Jesus told them about who they were in the context of your sinners. And not only are you sinners, you're enslaved to it. They weren't thinking high enough up by saying, what he's saying is he can forgive us, he can forgive sin. They say, but they have to admit guilt first. And so I think that's the deal.

It's the pride deal. same thing today you know it's it's easy to come to jesus if we're talking about me getting healed of some physical element or whatever but you start talking about me being a rebellious creature that's a little bit more um offensive for me to hear that if somebody tells me that but he actually said the pot he said you will know the truth which is a famous verse if you're old my teaching you are really my disciples in 31 then you will know the truth and the truth and the will set you free. Now, that was a beautiful statement, whatever it means.

And then they said, what are you trying to say? We've never been slaves of anyone. He didn't say, he didn't say that. He just said, you want to be true? I mean, you want to be free? The truth, which I think he meant himself, you know, because here you have really the difference in, is it his teaching or is it him?

because he said hold to my teaching, but my is the key word, because he's proven that he's God in the flesh. And then they're the ones that went into the, what are you talking about, free. We're not slaves of anyone, which makes me think when people who are locked up in sin, because then he explained himself and said, I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. But they're the ones that brought up the negative view of that. But he was speaking to the truth because, the word of truth throughout the Bible. The word of truth, the word of truth is in fact Jesus dying. He said it. He said, when you have lifted up the son of man, then you will know

who I am that I do nothing on my own to speak of, but just what the father has taught me. He said, it's coming. They were like, lifted up. They weren't quite putting it together right there at that point. Were they out? No, they weren't. And part of the problem was, I mean, you remember back in John 7, Jesus kept using Moses as an illustration to them. Yeah. You know, that comparison of the idea of being led out. And he kept showing them like, you know, you claim that Moses did this, but, you know, you do this. So he kept using that illustration. So I think in their minds, they're listening. And that they could relate to. I mean, they knew their history. They knew Moses that led him out of slavery from Egypt. Yeah. And so they saw Moses as this figure. And so they're

trying to relay Jesus into, are you the new, what are you? I mean, because they would say, but the problem is how he was saying, they didn't know they were locked up. That's right. But which is like anybody. He was trying to tell him, I'm God, I'm Yahweh, but that's what they couldn't wrap their brain around. Well, I think this is so relevant for, for where we're at today, because so much of the church has been infiltrated with liberation theology, which essentially teaches that we are to interpret the scripture through the lens of an oppressed people group. So they're looking at it like that the Jesus and the Gospels about being liberated from oppression here on planet Earth like like literal slavery right that's what they kept

yeah like like the the Egyptians enslaved the the Hebrews and so that's kind of the story right I'm like I'm like you read Hebrews 11 you're kind of like well we're not really promised a whole lot of you know benefit here sometimes some some people you die not at all we're citizens of heaven yeah but it's the the liberation the free freedom is the is the is it's freedom from your own sin your own depravity and and and your own hopelessness in that if I got to bootstrap myself up then I've read quite a bit of self-help books even from people that are in the church and and anytime I read something that's like you know you do you be your best self you know bootstrap yourself I'm like man at the end of the day I know that I can't do that 10 steps to a successful life it's five keys to overcoming and you read them and you get fired up and then And you're like, I'm going to do it. And then like two weeks later, you're like, I'm back to the same place. And it's only in Jesus.

Because Jesus says, you're not doing it. The work is finished. I've already done it. I've finished it. That's why it's called the finished work on the cross. Jesus accomplished it. He finished it. And we're living in that grace.

By the way, Jesus's statement here, I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. I mean, if you just want to hear in-depth, reading on that, speaking of baptism, you die to sin. You'll see, we were baptized into Jesus' death. We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the father. We too may live a new life. If we've been united with him in his death,

we'll certainly also be united with him in his resurrection, for we know that our old self, Now, Jesus was telling those people, you're slave to sin. Our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be rendered powerless that we should no longer be slaves to sin. Well, that's what he told them that they were. Because anyone who has died, and in this case you're looking at your spiritual death to sin, anyone who's died has been freed from sin what he's given to the point in time now as you go down

that rest of roman six uh you get down to verse 16 don't you know that when you offer yourself to someone to obey him as slaves you are slaves to the one whom you obey in all humans cases they're slaves to the evil one he brings that up a little further on in john 8 whether you slave to sin which leads to death or to obedience which leads to righteousness. Thanks be to God. Though you used to be slaves to sin, there it is again, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. If you remember Jesus said, if you hold to my teaching, then you'll know the truth and the truth will set you free. That means you're really my disciples. Well, the Apostle Paul is just elaborating on that.

I'll put this in human terms because you're weak and your natural self, just as you used to offer the parts of your body to enslavery, to impurity, and to ever-increasing wickedness. So now, since you've been born again, offer them enslavery to righteousness, leading to holiness. When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. The evil one had you.

What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you're now shamed of? The answer is no benefit. These things result in death. But now that you have been set free from sin, remember Jesus said, hold of my teaching, then you're really my disciples, then you know the truth, and the truth will set you free. Well, the Apostle Paul is still advancing that.

and you've become slaves to God. The benefit you now reed leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life for the wages of sin is death. And he was telling the people back there in John 8, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus, our Lord. So that's a pretty long discussion on slaves to sin or slaves to righteousness. Exactly. Let's take a break.

Yeah, and... But it's there. In fact, he goes on to say that in John 8. tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. So Jesus said that and then Paul elaborated on it later. I did find it interesting that he's trying to explain to him about who he is, because he says if the son sets you free in verse 36, John 8, you will be free indeed. I know you are Abraham's sinned. Yet you are ready to kill me because you have no room for my word. I'm telling you what I've seen in the father's presence and that you haven't heard from your

father. The only way I think I could understand this is that you would have had to be, and he was. I mean, because up until now, you say, he just said, you're trying to kill me. Well, they had never actually said that. Right. But Jesus being a mind reader, knew what was in their hearts. For the ones who had believed in him, he said, if you hold him a teaching, then he really my disciples, then you know the truth, the truth that sets you free. And then the static starts and he said, oh no, no, what y'all are trying to do, trying to kill me.

You know what the amazing thing is? They did. That's right. Well, and he even alluded to it back in the way. They did kill him. Back in 28 because he said, when you have lifted up the son of man, well, he was talking about he was going to be lifted up. Exactly. He knew they were going to kill him anyway. Right. Yeah.

I think what stands out to me is the two things really so far, their problems was one, they didn't realize. they were in sin. I mean, if you don't realize your condition, that's why you don't get help, which is universal and modern today. That's why the first step in the recovery programs at church, at CR, what's the first step? There's a problem.

I used to say to your mother back when I was a heathen. Be careful. I used to say, I've got to, she was in, what are you doing? What are you doing? I said, I've got to have. This is what I said. I have to have my freedom. Yeah.

Yeah. You talk about, oh, was I locked up a complete idiot. But you were doing it in the name of freedom, which is kind of what was happening here. Not knowing I was a slave to sin and Jesus could set me free. I was telling her, I have to do this for my freedom. I have to be free to do anything I want to at any time I want to do anything. Then he becomes a Christian. That's the way I had justified my mind, getting drunk hoaring around, you know.

Because your flesh, your sinful part of who you are was driving your narrative. The Apostle Paul said it. What benefit did you reap from the things you're now ashamed of? Well, that's me right there. Well, that was the first one. And we all acknowledge it. The second one's a little more tricky because he says, you have no room for my word in your life.

So what do you think that means? That was their problem. One, they didn't acknowledge. Then two, he said, You had, that's what he said. When I was a heathen controlled by Satan and a slave to sin, I had no room for any Jesus talk. If I saw a preacher coming, I headed the other direction. That meant your heart was full of evil.

It's an interesting way to say it. Well, there's another thread coming through here about he says the people that are of God hear him and the people that aren't don't. That's right. Which, I mean, that leads to an interesting discussion. I want to say one thing real quick, though, about what you said, because it's a great. like juxtaposed position of what's going on here. That's a big word, Jen. Juxtapose position.

That's a exact word. I have no idea what that. You're climbing the ladder. The subdivision has been, has opened your eyes. Why does it always go to a subdivision? We don't use that. I thought he meant. I got it.

I thought he said I just supposed. So wrong with your point. Okay. Here's my point. There's a ying and a yang here that I think is interesting. Of another story, I remember when you spoke, because you were talking about you thought you were free when you were in slavery. That's right.

And then when you spoke at Angola, I loved your opening line that you said, because everyone in that prison was, he said, you can be under locking key and still be free, which is that. What did they do when he said that? Oh, it was like Johnny Cash had, you know, Folsom Prison Blues. I mean, it's come to Folsom prison. Well, when I, my prison. Well, you think about it, if you're in for life and 90% of those guys, what I told them was, I said,

you're never going back down that road. Plus, they were piping. They were piping you into death row. And some of those guys on death road obeyed the gospel over that. Because the warden told me later, he said, you know, we went over there and they wanted us to baptize you. Maybe I needed to change my tactics. But we never had done that. We never let him away.

When I went to the prison, but they did. What stood out in those two years that I went. voluntarily was that I was one of you give us a testimony I tell that story I spent two years in prison people they're so

judgmental when you said it and I was like voluntarily sharing Jesus with them but what I found to be the number one most common problem is that they would not acknowledge

their sin they just wouldn't do it they were acting like they weren't locked up in a negative way not in a Jesus way they're like oh it's everybody's out to get me

I didn't do it was they were saying prisons are full of innocent people you know and you know there's true yeah I'm like you're locked up and then they would want to argue about religious things

you know and I'm like you're in prison for breaking the law you know and most of them have a long list let's take another break but I say see what he was saying in that setting.

It's weird how we both went to that situation. Because to them, there were some who were honest. Some were honest. And were open to Jesus. But then there was a whole other group that were like, no. Well, and in the discussion, remember, we're kind of going back and forth. But when you get to verse 42, and Dad, you've read this many times on the podcast, I mean, Jesus takes it to another level when he basically said, first they're arguing about who their father is,

and then all of a sudden he just blitzes them with, oh, you know who your father is? The devil. And look, what is ironic, these are 2,000-year-old, give a take a few, 2,000-year-old writings. You fast forward to modern-day America or anywhere else you want to go. but when he designated you belong to your father the devil and you want to carry out your father's desire he was a murderer from the beginning not holding to the truth for there's no truth in him when he lies he speaks his native language he is a liar and the father of lies what if you just look at what ails every nation murder and lies those are the top of the top of

too. Well, when you're looking at America, Zach, do you see any murder? A lot of murder and got a lot of lives. You should write a book on that. You should. Oh, wait, you did. The theft of America so. That's what it was about. And Jesus politics. And Jesus politics is the new one, which is the kingdom living. I wrote about Jesus politics because this is one of the good places to go. And you say, so what's it? But we have a culture that says, there is no God. There's no devil either. You're like, boy, you could have fooled me just from watching y'all. But you got to remember, look, you got to remember something I think we're missing in this story. The first verse of 31, this was to the ones that believed him.

Yeah. There's no telling what the ones that said, that dude's a fool. Because you're right. Verse 30 said many had put their faith in him. So you're right. I mean, these are the ones that says, we think you're the guy. Yeah, and I equate that to what's going on now, to what we would call cultural Christianity. Yeah.

You know, it's people that believe. And I think Corona's shaking that up, you know. I mean, we're in, and all this, you know, civil unrest. I mean, I think it's shaken up. I think that in this, Jace, you mentioned something earlier that spurred my thought. What Jesus said that got them so angry, it really was two things. It was one, what you said, that you're a sinner, essentially. He didn't have to say that.

He just said that you can be free, and then they imply from that. What do you mean? Yeah, they got offended. Yeah, they were offended. Yeah. I'll set you free. It was offensive. We're free,

yeah. And the second thing I think is, is that he's, and this is probably even more important, that he's claiming what he's, he's claiming to be God. That's it. All right. So I think that that's highly offensive too, because we want, you look at the whole history of humanity, as humanity trying to attain salvation,

whether it's the, we're going to build a tower and we're going to climb it and reach God, or, you know, we're going to climb this mountain, we're going to do it by our good works. and just the very incarnation of God and flesh is just a slap in the face of humanity in one sense that you will never reach me. You know, I had to come to you. So I think there's in this passage you're just seeing the whole gospel played out.

I think they were also insulted. The one that I was kind of looking at three things, you know, that they didn't, that they weren't getting that he was bringing out with the, they didn't realize a slave to sin, they didn't have any room. but then they got offended when they, because they took Abraham, they're like, well, you know, Abraham is our father. But Jesus is like, well, you're not acting like Abraham. That's right. So basically, if you go to Hebrews 11, and I started off this conversation today, talking about people moving out of the city.

Yeah. But, you know, when you think about what Abraham did, obviously what gets all the press, I guess, is he was willing to sacrifice his son because God told him to, because he reasoned that God could raise the dead. Now, that's a man of faith there. This is before the resurrection to reason that. But he also did something that I think for us practically would be way more difficult in our, you know, in our weak ways is pick up and move. I mean, it's like if I try to tell Phil, hey, you need to move from your house.

I've got a place I'm going to send you in New York City to do my work. Phil, given the option of sacrificing one of his kids are moving, it would be a close call. What would you choose, Phil? So look, no, don't answer that. Don't answer that. So at 11-8, when you read in Hebrews, it says by faith, just think about what Abraham did, in contrast to what they're sitting there having a conversation with Jesus and are denying him as the Son of God. That's what you pointed out.

but by faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. By faith, he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country. He lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs, for he was looking forward to the city with foundations whose architect and builder is God. But I've just always looked at that as something we don't really discuss, but to me, that would be so difficult for you to go do this. You know when he received the inheritance of the land? You know how long?

430 years later is when it happened. But you read the rest of Hebrews. Which is amazing. So we talk about one life like it's all about this one life. You know, you know, 400. 430 years. Well, he was one of several heroes of the faith in Hebrews 11. and it gets to the end, and there's that kind of the death knelt to the prosperity gospel,

and it says none of them received the promise while they were alive. Exactly. They're going to receive the ultimate promise with us, and so we're not promised that. And Jason's right. They were the examples of that sort of patience. I mean, we let God drive that show, not us. Well, they said, Abraham is our father, and he's like, if you were Abraham's children, then you would do the things Abraham did like these.

Well, they're so far away from that. I mean, they're offended. I think I got another one of these justaposes. Hang on, hang on, let's take a break. And now juxtapose us, dad. That's one of our new juxtapose. If they had known. Your dad's at England has a master's in English.

Oh, dad knows. He had heard it, but I had never heard of juxtapose. I'm just messing with y'all. How would you define it, Phil? It's like contrasting one against the day. Here's what I'm trying to say. When the Apostle Paul wrote Colossians, but you have to remember,

this is pre-that, this is 40 years, 30, 40 years earlier, if they had known that Jesus is the image of the invisible God, the first born over all creation, by him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible. We're talking atoms, molecules, where the thrones or powers or,

rulers or authorities, all things were created by him and for him. These people that he was talking to, they didn't realize that. They didn't get it. They didn't get it. He's before all things. And him, all things altogether. He's the head of the body, the church. Then I said, whoa, whoa, whoa.

He's the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead. So that in everything, he might have the supremacy. see, they just didn't realize who they were talking to. And watch, here's the solution to their problems that they didn't know. God was pleased to have all of its fullness dwell in him. They didn't know that. And through him to reconcile to himself all things, they didn't know that. Whether things on earth are things in heaven, they didn't know that.

By making peace through his blood shed on the cross, they didn't know that. Once and watch, here's the... Here they are. Once you were alienated from God, that's where they were, and enemies in your minds because of evil behavior, that's them. But now he's reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death. When I'm lifted up, Jesus told them, they're all I were. To present you wholly in his sight, the blood had to be shed.

Without blemish, the blood had to be shed. This is what they could have had. free from accusation, if you can termin your faith, watch yes, establish and firm, not move from the hope held out in the gospel. He said, it all comes back to Jesus, who he is, his death, burial, or resurrection. So if they had known, had that information. But you just think about it, Zach. They may have rejected that, too.

But they were saying, you got to remember, they were saying the right things. I mean, at the end of 41, they said the only father we have is God himself. Well, that's a fantastic. The problem is they were saying the right things to the wrong person because he was that guy. So can you imagine Jesus? He's God. So he knows everything. Yeah, I remember Abraham.

I was there, which is what he says later. Before April. That was this dropped the mic. His drop the mic was, I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am. Yeah, he's speaking in past tense and refers to himself. In present. I think it's him. I would say that was the, I've said this before, but that is the greatest line in the history of the world.

It really is. Well, only God could say it. Who could speak about themselves in a non-temporal, like, I transcend time. That's right. Bring somebody up that was here, what, a couple thousand years ago. And then you say, hey, because you're having this huge argument about whether we're his children or not. He's like, before he was, I am. Not I was.

I am. So you know what their response to that, Jay's? You know how they reacted in verse 59? I don't ran. At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hit himself, slipping away. Another Jedi, which to me is so hypocritical. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think the thing is...

You can't answer it, so I would have ran. I don't think it's just that they couldn't answer. I think there's a big difference here. And Abraham's the example, it's not enough to just believe. It's because the demons believe and shuddered. it says in James. It's, there's a difference

between believing in God and then believing God, believing his revelation of himself. And I think that's where they were like, well, we believe, but do you believe what he's telling you about himself,

which is what you just read in Colossians, which is this supremacy message. And the reason why we don't want to believe that is because we're like, I'm not going to bow the knee. And so the Bible, that's what,

90% of people in a poll say they believe in God. Right. Because he's revealed himself. 90%? 90%? Until you say bow the knee. Right.

Somebody is lying. Well, no, but here's... Father of lies. Here's why, Dad. It's a different image. That's right. He revealed himself in two ways. Generally, by the creation.

That's what Romans one tells us, right? So everybody looks at that and says, well, you know, I can't explain all this. So maybe I do believe in God. But then the second revelation, the exact, here's the story. Here's why I can. That's the one that's how you get it's the tricky. Which is why I said always the 10% of the world. they're crazy, which that prismal point.

Because 90% at least says, okay, there's something. Because you just can't get around it. But there's 10%, they're nuts. Because if you say there's just nothing, we're just here, float no nothing, and I'm nothing. That was my approach to preaching. As I always said, every audience I speak to, 10% of them, especially our church, they love me. So no matter what I say, they're going to love me, 10% think I'm an idiot. It's the middle 80.

I'm trying to convince that this is the truth of the matter. I think that's the way politics. I think it applies today, just like it did back then, if you preach that Christ is supreme and that we are not, you're going to get flack. Bottom line. You get people. That's troubling because that's all I do.

Right. Well, I mean, it motivates everything you do. We talked about a lot last night. We worship a God that we've never seen. That's right. That's why the number one. How could you do that? When I say, when I, I,

I go to these young people and I say, close your eyes and picture God. You know what the number one answer is when I say, what did you see? Oh, man. Nothing. Wow. That's right. The number one answer. Nothing.

Wow. Well, no wonder you're having such a hard time following Jesus' school. Man. That's a good point. Because when I would do that, I would think of everything. Like, I mean. Well, you would think. But, I mean, there are young.

They don't believe. I think if somebody with the like white beard and that's what I was thinking, that's kind of a Moses. I mean, I think the first time I did it, I guess that verse where it says he's in an unapproachable light, you know, I just did this big light. But kind of the transfiguration picture kind of is what you're imagining like that's what I was. But now I'm like more, because I realize now that I in my maturity in the faith, I realize that Jesus is the image of God. So I basically picture someone from that region who really didn't stand out, not like the Hollywood version, where they're always good looking, the flowing and the weird actor.

Or even back further, even that's the Renaissance period, it was like a Western European look with the blue eyes and the guys. Because I realized everything that Jesus did, it was nothing like you thought he would do. And so even in his appearance, Isaiah says that. There was nothing that what we were, that men would be drawn to. he was just a normal looking fellow, which is what God would do. He would camouflage it where whatever you think as far as the high, mighty jars of clay.

Yeah. Think about it. You're going to enter the world for the first time ever in flesh. And the dude that's paving the way for you, you know, he's got camel's hair, robbing beehives. I mean, he comes out of the wilderness. And he's going to introduce the God of creation and outwalks Jesus, nothing in appearance, but no beauty, no majesty. That's why these superhero movies all take all, because that's what we want. We want Captain America.

And when they saw him, they're like. To save us, protect us, and don't hurt us, and we'll watch. Yeah. And God came in a, he came in the form of a carpenter. He was a normal looking friend. Came as a carpenter, people are like, I ain't following no carpenter. They actually had a easy. They actually had an easier time believing John than they did because he was such a wild man,

looks like a prophet crazy guy. And they did Jesus. I got news for you. Captain America is not real. That's an actor and they put that stuff on it. I like that commercial they do with this guy's got all the muscles and he walks in. He starts peeling his muscles. Oh, that's the guy, the Aquaman, yeah.

How did they do that? He's got these little bitty horns, you know, I'm just being myself. Yeah. Then he couldn't get the jar of pickle. So it looked at that woman. I can't top that. We're done. That's never.

It's over. So we're so glad you guys were with us today. You can subscribe on iTunes or Spotify or YouTube or Facebook. And be sure and rate us on iTunes so that other people can know about the podcast.