Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1185 | Phil Used a Blush-Worthy Nickname for Miss Kay & A Godly Woman is Always Beautiful

Episode Date: October 13, 2025

Jase, Al, and Zach recall the cringeworthy nickname Phil used for Miss Kay; she never minded, and it actually revealed how deeply he admired her godly spirit as a wife and mother. Zach praises Al and Lisa’s willingness to share their testimony without shying away from hard, intimate details most people avoid, and the guys explore the power of testimony and confession. Zach notes that even though demonic forces know God’s plan, they cannot comprehend it because they do not speak the language of hope or love. In this episode: John 18, verse 1; John 18, verse 11; Acts 4, verses 25–29; Psalm 2, verses 1–6; Psalm 22; Matthew 26, verses 39–42; Revelation 12, verse 11; Isaiah 2, verses 2–4; Revelation 22, verses 2-5; 1 Corinthians 2, verses 6–14; James 3, verses 13–18; Acts 2, verse 23 Chapters: 00:00-12:53 The Power of Confession 12:54-18:12 Satan The Tempter & Accuser 18:13-28:16 Evil Can’t Comprehend God’s Plans 28:17-34:18 Why Liars Struggle with Truth 34:19-42:30 Why & How Does God Punish? 43:31-49:01 David’s Exile Foreshadows Jesus’ Coming 49:02-56:57 My God, Why Have You Forsaken Me? — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. I'm in the, I guess, what is this, the eastern layer? What do you call this spot we're in here? This is the mountain bunker layer. Oh, the mountain bunker layer. This is where we go, and it all hits the fan. You come up here, we'll buckle down. It's quite the set here, Dyes. They've got, you know, this kind of a lounging. You know, you and I kind of have a table.

Yeah, this is more like a cigar. lounge slash the lighting bourbon room they have a real fire we have a fake fireplace behind jays back there with fake fire i don't know if that fireplace works though that's the only problem uh i've wanted to light a fire in it but the landlord was kind of like well you need to be careful i mean if you want to go ahead but i'm like i'm like it's his building but i'm also kind of like yeah i don't know i don't know if i should do it i don't know there may be some bats in the belfry jays i'm i'm just confused why y'all are so obsessed with structures and then in the New Testament it's over and over says God doesn't live in buildings if we want to have that argument again well you sound like a Gnostic now anything

physical would that matter just let that go Jason's like don't worry about the physical universe physical world we're getting we're going to get out of this meat suit one day it matters jace the physical world matters man what have we been talking about i sense an argument on this podcast because y'all started off even before he came on back on so i says there's an argument there's one brewing right here. This is like a... Jayce. Al preached on Sunday.

And I think this is good for both of us to hear. And somebody... We had quite a few people visiting from the podcast. Because they knew... And by the way, Jase, the number one thing I heard, because there were people that travel four plus hours to come yesterday. And the number one thing they said is we love Jace's rabbit holes.

They all said that. They all said it. So the unashamed nation is loving the... And now asked the question. of, I can't remember the guy's name now, he said, well, do you think Zach uses too big a words? And he said, well, I mean, you kind of lose me sometimes, Zach. But then he said, but Jay's could be nicer to you as well. So I think there's a lot of room for all of us to, you know, find growth. And, I mean, no, I love our relationship. I tell you, my closest friends

are people with thick skin. Yeah. Al, you got to remember that when Al and I was, with when we started appearing in the real world, and I'm saying that because our childhood, we were literally in a wilderness where very few people were around. That's true. And look, we would take the way we played games to our neighbors or people would be invited from church.

When we kind of made the track and started meeting at WFR up in town, remember people would come down there, And then we would play a game after Sunday lunch. Yeah. And on several occasions, the people that we were playing games with would burst into tears. It happened on multiple occasions. And I'm looking around like, why are grown adults crying? Oh, we were young.

Yeah, we were young. And we didn't realize that the trash talking that came about in the game was upsetting people. And we learned it from our, from our parents and uncles and all that from Domino's and grandparents. Because it was just part of the way you did it. So we were so thick-skinned about it. We never even thought twice. And our cousins were the same way because they would come in and then we would teach them the same things. And so it's just, which just took our podcast audience a long time to like figure out that's kind of how we like to do it. Most of the injuries that I'm still struggling with from high school.

sports came because I was such a trash talker, because I thought it was part of the game. That's how I was raised. Not only do you win, you let your opponent know that you won. As you're winning. Well, that's bad when you're in high school because people will hit you from behind when you're not looking because of all the talk that you've been given during the game. and those are my worst injuries that I ever received were from cheap shots because I was trash talking. It's so true.

But it came from thin-skinned people, Al. But you know, Jay's, it's made it now. I don't like my grandkids, I'll play with my grandkids. But like adults, we have friends that like to play card games and stuff. They like to play, and Lisa likes to do it. But I can't even do it. It's like, I'm so now I've like, I don't want to be the old competitive Al. So I just quit.

It's like, Well, you got to find the right game out. Now I only play, like every once, about once a month, Si will organize a domino game like old times. Yeah, and I've done that. Yeah, and it's fun. But that's old school because we can still trash talk. That's why I go over there.

Jay, last time, said, well, I can't believe you're, you know, you're open to want to play. I was like, this is the only place I can come and trash talk like I did when I was 17. Exactly. And I love it when Cy's on the winning team, because, boy, he just starts talking about you and your kinfolk, which is his kinfolk. That's right. He likes to do.

It's so fun to me. But anyway, that was a long illustration of I love the banter. It's okay to disagree. We still love each other at the end. Well, I love it. I'm so glad Zat mentioned that we were going to be here, and the folks came yesterday, because one is, you know, they got to hear my and Lisa's story, and a lot of them hadn't heard that in exactly what God has done and is doing in our lives.

But also just, man, to hear the heartfelt ways that the podcast has impacted. I mean, there were some tears a couple of times, some guys just. It was powerful. Very powerful, very powerful testimony. One young man drove all the way from Nashville, which is four hours away. And, you know, he just, he loves it. And he had talked about how even the original show, like he's from California there from San Diego and he was like you know we just man we felt like

we were under siege you know as Christians out there but then the duck show came along he said and just felt like even though we we had nothing in common like with duck hunting and all that stuff but we had everything in common with the way your family is yeah and it was just really touching to me just you know hear those stories I mean it's so good it reminds us it was powerful I thought you know hearing you guys and um here Lisa really I've heard you our story a thousand times. I guess I feel like we lived it with y'all, but I don't know,

it's something, hearing it again, it's been a while, you know, since I've heard y'all give your testimony. And I love how you ended, too, with the Revelation 12 passage that we actually overcome the evil one

by the blood of the lamb and the power or the word of our testimony. And I felt that in the audience, because I know there are people, when you start talking about the kind of trauma that you and particularly Lisa have gone through. That's the kind of stuff that nobody talks about.

And so I think for, you know, just think about even like sexual abuse because that's part of, you know, Lisa's story that she talks about being sexually abused by her uncle. And you look at the stats, it's like one out of four boys have been sexually abused, one out of three girls. But nobody really talks about that. So I think when you express that in that kind of environment, it disarms a lot of people. And a lot of people are out there thinking that's me and I've never told anybody.

And it provides a way for people to start to... And you guys will get that probably the next few weeks, some of that. Because they were probably, Lisa said, at least 10 different women that told her afterwards. And she didn't say, they didn't say what part of she talked about, but she said a lot of your story is part of my story, but I've never talked about it. So, you know, that does give people, that is the power of it. And I don't know, I thought about Jason, when you were talking about in the last podcast about what you guys do with me,

move. Truth is truth to not shy away from the difficulties of what these families are going to face. And so that's what truth does. It doesn't sugarcoat. I mean, it's just honest. And it says, look, if it was a mess, it's a mess. But here's how it can be fixed. I mean, it can be fixed.

It can be changed. It can be redeemed. That's the word, Lisa. Well, this is the thing. Yeah, there's a lot of talk right now about cultural renewal and revival. But here's the truth about. Revival, I think people have to understand this, that revival always coincides with people confessing, people repenting, people opening up, people bearing their souls, people sharing about the things that

happened to them. It really, that is real true revival comes from. It's like getting things that are in the dark, in the light. And I thought, you know, you guys did such a good job yesterday of doing that. It's kind of, you kind of, I don't want to call it a schick, because it's not a schick. But y'all's thing is really like just, that's what we do. Nate's a time bomb. Get it all out. Let's deal with it. And that's really,

I think, our family's personality anyways. And I think that if your church culture can start to embody that type of, like, we're just going

to get it out. Yeah. And when that confession come, I had somebody just this week and talked to me actually last week and they were dealing

with a ton of stuff in their life and never shared it with anybody. And I had a secret alcohol addiction, secret porn addiction, all these other things. And like,

when we talked about, this. I said, look around. What do you notice? The sky didn't fall. You got this out and now they're going to go get that out with other people they need to in their life and they have and the sky didn't fall. Like, you're still alive.

You're still breathing. And that person would tell you today, like, they're dealing with it. They're going through the steps. But I'm like, man, it's like Lisa said, 50 pound weights just lifted off my shoulder. I think that's what Christ offers us.

Yeah, we were I told this story earlier this year, but it just reminded me of it. Again, the young man and his wife that did their testimony at our marriage retreat last year. And the year prior, the movie, The Blind, had just, I mean, obliterated this guy's heart. I mean, just like he had been living this whole secret live, double life. And the movie just did it, the gospel, you know, about mom and dad's life and what happened. The life change. And it's just because it's just another way of seeing the gospel, a different.

art form, but the same thing. It's the story. But they were up sharing their story the next year about what God had done over the course of that year. And he talked about porn being a big part of that and it's just the shame of it and the secrecy of it. And so when he got there, he pulled his hat down low. He's looking at the ground. It was so hard, you know, because his wife knew, his counselor knew, but he had never just said it out loud. And he did. And his wife looked at him and she said, that's the first time you've ever said that out loud to people. And we got to see that moment. And I mean, I just, oh, I was just in tears, you know, because I thought, man,

he just finally realized that Jesus can take away shame. Yeah. I mean, in that moment. And don't you think that people in the audience found healing in that, but he also was overcoming the accusations of the evil one by his sharing of the testimony. Because you got to think of that Revelation 12 passage, I think it actually caused him the accusation. user. Yeah, it does. And so the accusation is coming. And that's what the devil does. I think he

accuses you of your guilt. And he's like, and what's is hilarious about it is like, I'm like, dude, you're the one that coax me into this. Yeah, exactly. You're the one that told me this was going to be amazing. I did it. And now you're sitting there pointing your finger at me saying shame on you. Yeah. But when you share your story, when you, when you verbalize your testimony, there's something about that word as it comes out of your mouth, that it's like it anchors you in truth. And the truth that it anchors you in is the first part. Well, I was never counter-righteous by what I did anyways.

I was always going to be counter-righteous by the blood. And so the testimony links you back in to an appeal to the blood. And then it's like, okay, yes, I get this. And then you over, and you say, Satan, you're a liar. You lied to me before. You're lying to me again. I'm not going to believe your lies. And that's the process of this.

called sanctification. Yeah, exactly. And it's like the power of any addiction, it's always such a cruel taskmaster because it always takes you to a place that's bad, not good, is where it always ends up. And that's what the evil one does. And so that's just his modus operandi. And you're right, I mean, it's been a blessing for us. And a lot of people will tell us, they're like, well, man, you're just so courageous to say that. I said, oh, no, the courageous part was the submission and letting God take over. I mean, this is the part. We, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, being able to see people, the lights go off and say, oh, man, you mean we can find this too? I mean, that's fun for us. Even though it's not, it's never pleasant to talk about the worst time

of your life, but at the same time, it's just like what dad and I talked about with a movie. If it helps someone else come to a realization point that they can find healing and salvation, it's so worth it, you know, you just can't keep quiet about it. So, I think that's what Jesus keeps bringing him up in our narrative from John. He keeps bringing in the evil one up because, I mean, you mentioned adversary, accuser, opponent. He's known as the devil, the prince of the world, murder. He takes those captive, so whatever that is. He's also depicted as a roaring line, an angel of light, which goes in with the delusional

and deceiving aspect, tempter, accuser, deceiver, organizing, you know, the war against God's, spiritual warfare, you know, so whatever, he's a warrior in that instance. And I think that's why part of this narrative is Jesus was going to defeat him. Yeah. And the powers, his entourage that contribute to sin and death. Yeah, I think you're exactly right, Jay's. And I think, but I'll ask you guys, do you think, I mean, there's no way to know this, but do you think that Satan thought that by Jesus' death he would win?

Oh, I think so. Because I think he's all about death. Yeah. He's all about death, and he's all about a lie. When he lies, the Bible says he speaks his native tongue. And so I think he believes his own lies. Because, you know, if you read that Philippine, where I get this in scripture from is Philippians 2.

Because Philippians 2 says that there will be a degree of revelation at some point in the future or at the second coming to where when Christ reveals himself in a certain, like, I guess, degree of glory, that it will be impossible for anyone on the earth, under the earth, or above the earth to not confess him as Lord.

And so when you think about something like that, like Satan himself is going to bow down to Jesus. And there's no question about it. That's in the scripture, right? And I think he's going to see that in the moment, but for now, and for whatever reason, God has allowed this hiddenness. Like Christ, he is hidden.

God is hidden in a way. And so I think he's believing his own lies. And so it's like this futile attempt. Because it's your own self. You believe the lies when you're in it. You're actually participating in the thing. You think that this is going to bring you some type of fulfillment. But once you kind of get out of it,

and you're walking in the spirit, you're like, that was a dumbest thing. What was I thinking? Exactly. Or you look at someone who's in it and you're like, what are you thinking, dude? What are you thinking? And the truth is that the thinking is futile.

They became futile in their thinking and their foolish hearts were darken. And so I think Satan is the embodiment of, maybe embodiment's the wrong word because he doesn't possess a physical body, but he is the personification. of that type of just futile thinking, just dumb, like twisted,

like you can't even see the forest for the trees type of thinking. I think he is that. Well, I was just going to say the verses that back up what you said is that 1st Corinthians 2.6, we, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age who are coming to nothing. speak of God's, the word you were looking for was secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden

and that God destined for our glory before time began. This is 1st Corinthians 2.8. None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory. And then he says, however, and he quotes Isaiah 40, no eye has seen no ear has heard no mind has conceived what god is prepared for those who love him which was one of my dad's favorite verses but god has revealed it to us by his spirit and then the other one that what you said about the feudal thinking you know when he contrasts that in james he starts off saying you know mentioning the evil one and in james three he gets down to who is wise and understanding in 313.

Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done, and the humility that comes from wisdom. But if you harbor bitter envy or selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such wisdom does not come down from heaven, but it's earthly, unspiritual

of the devil. Where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder in every evil practice. then it goes on to say, but the wisdom that comes from heaven is, first of all, pure, peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy, good fruit, impartial, and sincere. Think about this. You go back to that first one you read in 1st Corinthians 2. It does say that, right? It says that the rulers of this age, if they would have understood

what God was doing, they would have never crucified Jesus. Right. Right. But then he says that he, but he has revealed it, but the caveat there is that God has revealed these things to us through the spirit. And this is, I think this is key to the whole thing. For the spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For who knows a person's thought except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also, no one comprehends the thoughts of God. You can't comprehend God's thoughts. You're not. Right. The only one that can understand the thoughts of God, except the Spirit of God. So the Spirit of God can actually comprehend the thoughts of God.

And so now we, this is people that are Christians, receive not the Spirit of the world, but the capital S spirit who's from God. Why? That we might understand the things freely given to us by God. So God's spirit who knows God's thoughts is now we have received that spirit so that now we can understand the thoughts of God. and if we impart this, I'm reading verse 13 now, in words not taught by human wisdom, but taught by the spirit, interpret spiritual truths of those who are spiritual.

But here's the other side of this. This is the Satan side. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God. They are folly to him. And he's unable to understand them because they're spiritual discern. So this is how crazy is. We're having this conversation right now about the Holy Spirit, about the Bible, about the plan of God, about the victory in Christ,

and demonic forces, the ones in Ephesion 6 that we talked about in the last passage, they are listening to this podcast right now. We're actually telling them the game plan, and they're thinking, oh, you boys are dumb. To them it's folly. They can't understand what we're talking about. Think about that. The devil cannot understand the conversation that we're having right now.

We're having it, and he can listen to it, but he can't discern it. He can't think about it because the spiritual person judges all things, but he himself is judged by no one, for who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him, but we had the mind of Christ. He, so this is, I mean, this is like power.

Like, we have a power in a language and an understanding that any force that's opposed to us opposed to Christ can hear us talking about the plan and we're like drawing out the architectural plans and we're saying, here's what's going to happen, here's what's going to happen. And they're looking at the whole plan and they're like, I don't understand what they're talking about. It's folly to them.

Right. It's crazy. And it's like when you were saying that, it made me think it's like terrorism. It's like you don't understand, like you can't control a situation. So all you can do is just maim, kill, hurt, you know, you launch into something to bring something bad. And then you step back and say, well, I did that. And he was like, yeah, and what? I mean, that's what he's saying.

He's already been, and Jesus has already cut out his, the legs out from under him. But he's still in the sorters. There's still, and there's whole throngs of people. You see a bunch of me without the spear. What do you see? You got a mob on your hand. Got a mob. There's a guy named William Lane Craig, who's a, he's a, I used to read all this stuff when I first, like, started getting into apologetics.

He's, he's, he's like a brilliant apologist. Like this guy, if you ever watch him in a debate, it's like, he just, I've never seen him lose a debate against an atheist. Yeah. He's, I mean, he really is like a savant. I mean, this guy's like absolutely brilliant. I had him on Not Yet Now, podcast, matter of fact, a while back. But what's interesting about his approach is that you can actually go buy his books, reasonable faith.

He's written a ton of stuff. Like you can buy all of his books, and you can research his arguments, and they're very succinct arguments. Like he has one called the cosmological argument, which is everything that begins to exist must have a cause. The universe began to exist, therefore the universe, supposed to have a cause and then why that cause must be God. It's like you can know his argument and I think, man, so I've always thought, how does an atheist that's going to debate William Lane, Craig, you know what he's going to say. You have his entire argument in advance. I could,

I could quote everything. I know what he's going to say. And it's so powerful that even knowing the plan in advance, you can't defeat it. And that's what it's like, God's so, his plan is so powerful. I think that's because people, like when you're controlled by the evil one, you just don't have, everything that makes sense seems like foolishness. And you look at it and you can't discern it because it's spiritually discern. And I think Satan is the same way. He speaks lies. That's what he does. That's his language.

Well, I know. I think he uses people in power. I just had, while y'all were talking, I threw together a rabbit hole here. There we go. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it, Jay. I knew that jace was that quiet.

I was like, he's diving somewhere. In a rabbit hole. Well, it hit me that you think about the powers, and I'll just pick two for illustrative purposes. You have Herod and Pallet who are being used as pawns, I would interject under the power of the evil one. Because basically we're, you know, and I would even throw Caiaphas and Anas in there as well.

I wanted to use Herod and Pilate just because of where I'm going for the, yeah, and Judas, who betrayed. Because, you know, we're at the arrest part in John 18. And he's going to be arrested. And then he's taken to Anna and Caiaphas and that whole deal. Herod and Pilate are coming later. But, and you remember when he's arrested, he's like, don't fight with the. the weapons of the world.

And we talked about that. So his plan is not, it's secretive to even his disciples, because they're like, this makes no sense. What are you talking about? Let's fight. You know, Peter's cutting off the ear. And somewhere in there, he tells Peter,

that's in verse 11 of chapter 18. Jesus commanded Peter, put your sword away, shall I not drink the cup the father has given me? And without, we can get, we can dive into that later on exactly what that means. But all I wanted to say is later on, whatever happens, and we know he dies, he's buried, and he's raised,

and we know that Pilate and Herod, you know, where are they heard from after all this goes down? Yeah, it goes badly for them later. Yeah, exactly. And they're the ones with the power. You know, what are you talking about? You're going to come in here and claim you're some king. Watch this.

You know, and the Romans were experts in killing people. I mean, let's just go ahead and call it what it is. It's like you want to know how to kill somebody, not only to publicly shame the very notion that you're some kind of king, but we will also, we're experts in making sure you die, which is why I think God chose this time to come into the world. Because then when you're looking at it, oh, well, maybe he was asleep.

No, you're challenging the greatest killers at that time. That was their, that's what they were known for. Public capital punishment. And so I think it's very interesting that when you fast forward to Jesus dying being bearing, raised, the spirits being poured out, the disciples have a complete transformation. And I wanted to read this in Acts full. So they're out declaring that Jesus is now the king. He's conquered the grave.

And in chapter four in verse, where do we want to, where do we want to start here? Let's start. This is when the same people have hauled John and Peter in before them. Yeah. In verse 25, it says, you spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of your servant, our Father David, why do the nations rage and the people's plot in vain? Now here's where I'm getting to. This is a quote from Psalms 2.

The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers gather together against the Lord and against his anointed one. Indeed, Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspired. against your Holy Spirit, Jesus, whom you anoint it. They did what your power and will decided beforehand should happen. Now, Lord, consider their threats and enable your servants to speak your word with great boldness. So you see what he's doing there?

He's like, they weren't aware that what they were doing was the plan all along, that this would be their defeat. Well, when you go back and read Psalms 2, It's fascinating. In the first six or seven verses, oh, I mean, you're talking about powerful. Psalms 2 starts off saying, why do the nations conspire in the people's plot in vain? The kings of the earth rise up and the nations band together against the Lord and against His anointed saying, let us break their chains and throw off their shackles.

The one in throne in heaven laughs. the Lord scoffs at them. He rebukes them in his anger and terrifies them in his wrath, saying, I have installed my king on Zion, my holy mountain. So to your point,

I was just going to say, I don't think they knew it. I don't think the evil one knew it. But meanwhile, the God above was saying, oh, just give it a minute. Yeah. Not only are you going down.

I don't know if they know if they know if they know if they know if you made an interesting point about without the spirit of God can you ever really understand it I don't think I don't see how you can know it I mean it gives me incredible confidence but like I hear people say things like and I'd have to probably do a little more research on this but I hear I hear people say things like well the devil knows like he's just mad and he's I don't I don't think he gets it he's the ultimate delusion is realizing that the delusion that you're spewing is the same delusion that is fueling you. Yeah.

Think about this. Think about this. Every narcissist that you know, and we all know a few narcissists. I mean, I got one in mine right now, and I think about this particular person, they believe their own hype.

Yeah. I mean, that's kind of the thing. You're like, are you, do you really think the rules aren't going to get? I mean, do you really think, like, this is how, this is you really? And the answer is yes. Well, I would say, I think what you see is, and I've had a couple of people that we tried to drag to heaven.

And I'll say that affectionately, but it's like, what is the problem? But they had the same problem. They were people who come to Christ who are just known for like, when you say, what is your biggest problem? And their biggest problem is that they just spew lies. I mean, if their mouth is moving, they are lying. and the problem with them ever realizing the truth is they've told so many lies they don't they're they're confused on what the truth is even when they hear it it's just in a bed of lies that gets lost in there where yeah it's like they're led by an illusion yeah that's a good point well you mentioned that earlier i make a little tie up here you had mentioned that wrath a cup of wrath or the cup let this cup pass from me and and there's a lot I definitely want us to get into it at some point. But one thing I think that means is there is a version of wrath.

I think it's both an. But one of the versions of wrath is the one that you see in Romans 1 where it's to be left over to yourself, to do what ought not to be done. Yeah, right? Gave them over. Right, Romans 1, or even in the Old Testament, if you'll notice, when God would say he would reveal his wrath,

well I would say most of the time probably outside of the plagues or or something like that he just allowed another nation to come in and just beat the fire out of them yeah it's almost like it's almost God just saying okay I'm just remove my protection from you I'm gonna remove I'm gonna just kind of like hey okay okay boys well let's talk about that one off the bat because so like I think a disputed verse is when Jesus said, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Yeah. And I say it's a disputed verse because you're like, well, Jesus knew the plan. That's obvious.

How many times do you say, I'm going to go die? I'm going to. Even here when he said, shall I not drink the cup that the father has given me? So, I mean, he gets what's fixed to happen. And I would say, I think part of this wrath was him being given up and handed over, because there's a lot of times in Acts when they're sharing the story of Jesus. I think Acts too when it says, he was handed over by God's set purpose and foreknowledge, and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nail him to the cross.

And I think what you'll see from Psalm 2 and Acts 4 even in that sermon, that God actually used that because the evil powers, that's always been their answer, is, oh, if there's a problem, we'll just kill him. That's why it says the evil one was a murderer from the beginning. I mean, there's sin and death going in cahoots, even going back to the garden, which created this corruption on the earth. The biggest problem nobody talks about is once Adam and Eve's sin and he said, you'll die. Well, then when they got kicked out of the garden, they didn't have a way back in.

Yeah. Which got into this, you know, bringing on the tabernacle and the tent of meeting and all these things where God's presence would come. Because really, what was one of the bigger problems of what happened in the garden? You've now lost the presence of God in this intimate. Yeah, in this intimate way, which really is the definition of holiness. That's why when we did a couple podcasts ago about when God speaks through the burning bush, through the angel, and all of a sudden, it brings up holiness. This place where you're at is holy ground. And the same with the tabernacle and the tent of meeting. It's like this space needs to be clean for the presence of God.

And you get into all these ritualistic sacrifices. sacrifices. Yeah, yeah, it's all about this being, holiness is being in the presence of God. But the problem is if you're not clean and you go into the presence of God, it's pretty clear in the exodus that his presence will consume you. Exactly. Not in a good way. I heard a good illustration on this. It's like the sun. Somebody, I don't know where I heard this, but it's like the sun. When you think of the sun, you think, well, sun's good. Well, the sun's also dangerous. You know, that's why we put... You can't even look at it. Yeah, we put sunscreen on. It's good. And I think that's a good

illustration for being in the presence of God. He's good, but it's also dangerous if you're not prepared to be in that presence. Well, what he says in Exodus, he tells Moses, he says, here's what you need to do, Moses, because nobody can see my face and live. So I'm going to, my presence is going to come past you. I'm going to send my presence past you, but you have to turn around, because if you look at my presence face to face, you're done for. So I want to hide you in the cleft of the rock, which is, that's Jesus. I mean, it's going to be Jesus. And he says, I want to pass by you, can see my face. Well, you go back to that passage in 1st Corinthians too. I mean, nobody can know the mind of God except the spirit of God. So, and in the same way,

so what's happening here with the spirit, 2 Corinthians 3, with unveiled faces now, we can behold who God is, which we could never have behold, we could never experience his presence in our sin because his presence would consume us. And that's the framework that changes. What changes between me post blood of Jesus and, or pre-blood of Jesus? Well, post-blood of Jesus is that's the one who has the Holy Spirit in him. I had the Holy Spirit in me now. And now I can know the mind of Christ. And actually, I can experience the presence of God as pure, unadulterated. pleasure and just goodness and joy, you know, but to go into that presence without the spirit, now you're talking about something that's completely different. It's almost like it's hell.

I mean, it's the worst thing possible. And that's, that is God. So Satan, you know, there's that thing in C.S. Lewis's book, The Great Divorce, have you read that? And there's this like scene where they're like standing in the stream. and there's like this beautiful, the way it describes it, it looks beautiful. Like it's like crystal clear water and these really green blades of grass

and like beautiful rocks and it's like a beautiful scene. But to those who are not in Christ, the water fills really hard. And the blades of grass aren't something soft that you could lay down in and have a picnic.

They're like sharp blades that just, you know, pierce your stuff. skin. And so it's the same scene for both those in Christ and those who are not in Christ, but they experience it in two totally different ways. And I think that's what is kind of the idea of God's wrath. At least it's part of it. I don't know if it's the full picture of it. Well, even like the, we were talking about the idea of removal of good and seeing the wrath of God. I mean, that's the picture in Genesis 1819 with Sodom and Gamar. I remember

because it was like Abraham was sure that they were, I mean, at least five people down there. Yeah. Five or ten people. You know, and God's like, well, you find them and we'll see. But there weren't. Yeah. I mean, there were only three that remotely even believed in God,

but they had been consumed in the culture, and they had to get out of there. And when you sell the wrath of God come down on this, because there was no spirit. There was no faith. There was no life left. No life left. But the spirit enables you to experience life.

And even like when you think about, I thought it was something your dad used to say all the time, which was hilarious when he would say it. But he would say something like, I know he said it one time at church. He said, and it was so funny. Everybody was just like dying laughing. Your mom just like buried her head. But she loved it. He said, I wouldn't trade, oh, what do he call her?

Stumpy? Yeah. Something like this. Something about her weight. Her weight. He said, and them and those four godly children that she put out for any old skinny penny walking down the street. And that's something that, like, he looked at her body, which had obviously over time changed

because she had given birth to four of his children. And he actually found that attractive. He said, that's more attractive. A good, godly woman, boys. Good godly woman, her rattling them pots and pans. I'll tell you what. And that, I love that because it's like the spirit enabled him to see a much deeper beauty. and his aging wife.

And what Kay, my and Kay, your mom, what she, her life, that was more attracted to him than the superficial skinny, I don't know who skinny penny is, but whoever skinny penny was. Well, what's funny about that is Muslims would say, did you just call me stumpy? But he's like, I'm giving you a compliment. Phil justified the course joking or, you know, he'd hurt people's feelings. were like, no, I'm bragging on you.

I love that Stumpy one. And only my mom, chubby, he called her something. Chubby, Stumpy, he called her all those things, which it horrified my wife when he would do that. And she was like, and your mom, made deep down that's got to hurt her feelings. And I said, I think she knows, Phil, you know, better than you. And she realized that that was kind of a redneck way of giving her a compliment. Oh, yeah, no doubt.

And she would take it that way. But it's funny because another thing was, though, dad, the reason why it was so heartfelt, even in the dad way he did it, is because in his younger days, he had a problem with Skinny Penny and a few others. Oh, yeah. And, you know, that was part of his past. And he realized where that got him, which is nowhere. You know, and so seeing now what your real purpose is does change that. And again, that's the thing about truth. And truth is so powerful.

You know, it's interesting because this text. We were talking about this idea of cup of wrath. I kind of did a rabbit hole jace on that Kidron Valley because there's a lot of stuff about it. It's kind of famous for a lot of different reasons. But one of them was because, you know, that was remember Jesus said he crossed the Kidron Valley, then went up on the Arden, the Mount of Olives there to pray.

And, you know, David did the same thing, but David was getting out of Jerusalem. And it was really interesting at 2 Samuel 15. And this was after his fall with Bashiba. So I think it fits in this context. were talking about the evil one, because after he had had that terrible affair and then murder and the cover-up, and his family completely imploded. And it was mainly because they lost respect for their dad, you know, because of the scandal of it all and everything that happened.

Obviously, he repented, you know, you read Psalm 51. I mean, you know, God loves him, but we get to Second Samuel 15, and now his kids are such a mess that his son has betrayed him is now trying to take over the throne. And so David has to flee. And at first they're coming out with the Ark of the Covenant and they're trying to take the presence of God. And David's like, no, this is on me. Take it all back.

And he just went up with just him and a handful of people and left. And he went up on that same mouth that Jesus had prayed. And we were reading about the prayer. And he wept and he prayed that God wouldn't leave him. And if only God could work this out. And so then he had to stay and hide him. Of course, it worked out. But he lost his son.

who he loved. I mean, he loved Absalom. And he hated the fact of what was happening. But it just shows you the power of believing a delusion and a lie. You see it in this thing. So it's ironic that it was that he did the same path. But Jesus was coming in to save us by sacrifice. And David had to leave because of his past.

And it's real hard for humans to wrap their head around it. You remember in Matthew's account in chapter 26, you remember the disciples were like, the mom comes up and like, oh, you know, I have a request, which one, you know, I want one of my sons on your right and one on the left. And Jesus famously says, you know, can you drink the cup that I am going to drink from and be baptized in the baptism that I have to undergo? And, of course, there, you know, here they are thinking, whatever they were thinking, but we're going to take the world by storm and we want to be elevated to these positions. and he's like, well, that's God's call on who's going to do that. But he says something interesting in there, which he says, now you will participate in that cup.

Oh, yeah. But when you think about, well, what did he mean by that? So, you know, undergoing suffering, because he was talking to James and John in which we know James was martyred, but John never was but although he had many torturous things that happened to him but it's an interesting dialogue in that this idea of it's just hard for you to wrap your head around on the plan of God and to get back to my point about the uh when he said my God my God why have you forsaken me well he was quoting from Psalm was that 22 yeah

Verse 1. Yeah, and I wanted to read a little bit of that because I, you know, once, because I know there's a lot of thoughts, well, why would he do that? But when you read the whole Psalm, you kind of go, oh, I kind of get it. And it's very powerful. And I'll just pick out a few high points of it. The first verse is the one he quoted where it said, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, which is a theme of this Psalm? He keeps saying, Don't be far, don't be far, don't be far. Because you remember the scene when Jesus was crucified. Look, darkness came over the land.

I mean, everything cannot look any more bleak. His disciples have all abandoned him. The powers that be are like got their chest out. Yeah, we're in total control. The evil one who has used death as his goal since going back to the garden. And it says, my God, I crowd day. out by day, but you do not answer by night, but I find no rest. And then he says, you are enthroned as the Holy One.

You are the one Israel praises. And so then he goes on to verse six and says, but I am a worm and not a man, scorned by everyone, despised by the people. All who see me mock me. They hurl insults, shaking their heads. And we see that through this Psalm, he's going out to what's going to happen to Jesus, which is why I think Jesus, Jesus quote, He trust in the Lord, they say, let the Lord rescue him, let him deliver him since he delights in him.

You know, it goes on in verse 11, do not be far from me, for trouble is near, and there's no one to help. Verse 16, dogs surround me, a pack of villains encircle me. They pierce my hands and my feet. All my bones are on display. In verse 8, verse 19, but you, Lord, do not be far from me. You are my strength. Come quickly to help me. Deliver me from the sword.

My precious life from the power of the dogs. Rescue me from the mouth. Well, at some point, this seems to turn. And I want to go down to where it says in verse 27 and read the end of it. It says, all the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the Lord. And all the families of the nations will bow down before him. For dominion belongs to the Lord. and he rules over the nations.

You see this in the Psalm where all of a sudden, this is the way to defeat all the ones encircle him, all the powers. Let me say something real quick because I was, I mean, when I tell you, I have my finger on that exact verse

about 15 minutes ago. Well, look, let me read the last verse because I know we're out of time because look, this may be... I got to end with something else now, so you read your verse. I want to jump out of the chair. So verse 31 says,

they will proclaim his righteousness declaring to a people yet unborn, which that's talking about us. Look, look, what do we proclaim? He has done it. It's, look, it's more than just receiving the consequences of our sin, redeeming those. It shows you there's a call. What did he say at the end? What did he say at the end? He has done it. It's finished. And he said, and he said, and he said, Guess who wrote Zon 22, David. Let me read this last part real quick, because I was going to go to the same place. That's so weird, Jase. I don't know what's going on, man.

We are in the same camp. So think about that. What you just said about Christ being on the mountain, and he's praying, let this cup pass from me, right, on the mountain. You're going to get the cup. On top of the mountain, that's where Christ sits, on top of Zion, right? This is Zion. So then you look at Isaiah, the prophet Isaiah in chapter 2.

Listen to what he says as he sits on the mountain of the Lord, and he shall be established as the highest mountain and shall be lifted up above the hills. And all nations shall flow to it. All nations, not just Israel. Right. And their own prophet is declaring that all of the nations, the people that yet to be born,

the ones he talked about in Psalm 22. All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the Lord. All the families of the nations shall worship before you. Dominion is the Lord. All of that's coming. And then look at what they do in verse four of chapter 2. He shall judge between the nations and shall decide disputes for many people. And this is what they're going to do.

This is what we're all going to do. They shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. nations shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore. They're going to take, we are going to take the instruments of war, and guess what they're going to become. Instruments of cultivation, instruments that we will use to subdue the earth and have dominion over it, and you go to the very last chapter in the Bible, Revelation 22, and its dominion realized. The very last chapter in the Bible, listen to what it says. it says

there will be no day and night will be no more there will be no need for light lamp or sun for the Lord God will be their light and they will reign forever and ever Dominion realized

the nations coming in or taking up the leaves of the tree that are the healing for the nations I mean this thing you can't make this stuff up It's the kingdom of God all right we got to land this plane

I was wrong I said at the beginning I sensed an argument coming between Zach and Jason instead, it was a beautiful unification. It was. So we'll see you next time. We're on the shame.

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