Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1190 | Jase Floats the Idea of an ‘Unashamed’ LIVE Tour & Gets Hyped Up With Tom Petty

Episode Date: October 20, 2025

Jase explains why Tom Petty’s “I Won’t Back Down” is his new walk-up song, and Zach pitches a wives-included “Unashamed Live” tour. Jase proves that Unashamed Nation is the best group of fans out there, and he reins in his rabbit holes long enough for the guys to finally dive into John 18’s illegal proceedings against Jesus, contrasting earthly power with sacrificial victory. They connect Pilate’s mockery of Jesus and the Barabbas exchange to the mission that carries the Word of God to the ends of the earth. In this episode: John 18; Matthew 26; Daniel 7; Daniel 2; Acts 1, verse 8; Acts 8; Acts 9; Isaiah 49, verse 6; Isaiah 52–53; Psalm 110; Ephesians 1; Romans 8; Romans 1, verse 16; Matthew 16; Ephesians 6 Chapters: 00:00-05:04 Jase pulls a pro fishing move 05:05-9:00 Proving Unashamed listeners are the best 9:01-19:11 A brief history of Tom Petty 19:12-25:28 Floating an Unashamed Conference idea 25:29-29:31 Finally getting to John 18 29:32-38:40 Pontius Pilate fulfills messianic prophecy 38:41-47:13 Using violence to change truth 47:14-56:03 Jesus destroys the walls between us — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashame. I'm looking at the box, but I don't see Jay's. That's the first time I've ever heard him say, I'm going to water the coffee down. That's not like him. Jay's, we started and looked up and you weren't there. What happened? I made my coffee so strong today because I got up early. early before daylight because I had a little we had a little man this weekend so this weekend had a lot of Bible studies and I had some child training and dog training that's that basically sums up the weekend Bible studies dog training child training in no particular

order well we are getting close to Duxey we're a month from Duxes and So are you getting in the, you're getting all in the mood and exciting? Oh, I am. We have, that's the backstory. So I guess that would be a distant number four. We're getting ready for duck season, which is, it's going to be great. It's a new birth. I know I say that every time, but nine months of getting ready for duck season,

and then you're born again into the wild. So, hey, but I got one thing. One thing. I haven't been in a few years, Chase, but, I am going to be there opening day in honor of dear old dad. I'm going on opening day. You're back. I'm back.

I just figure it's the first opening day without dad in 65 or 70 years, whatever it was. And so just to honor him, I'm going to be there. I'm hoping Willie and Jeff will come. Well, he took me duck hunting for the first time when I was eight or nine. So without revealing my age. When is opening day? Well, you. November.

A simple search would clear that up. But it's always in Louisiana the Saturday before Thanksgiving. Yeah. So there you go. 20 first. It's coming up. About a month. Yeah.

So this morning, as I took Little Man out, which was a big day this morning. He wanted to go to the beach. So we go to Willys. He's got a little beach. Just think of how Willie operates. He created it. He literally brought. in sand to make a beach on his pond.

On his little pond, yeah, yeah. And so we go there. Last time I took Little Man last weekend, he had a huge bass that broke his line. And for the first time in his life, he was like, he looked at me like, what just happened? Let's reel him in. I said, no, he broke your line. I'm trying to explain that to him. Because every other time he just came in.

It's like, what just, and so I, I use it as a life lesson at three years old of like, things happen. Sometimes your line breaks. And he was disgusted. It was huge bass. So this morning, he's reeling, bonged, getting better, setting the hook. And I was like, what is this? And it was a beast of a crappie off the beat. I mean a beast, huge croppy line didn't break.

So very exciting. Did you cook him up? I cleaned him. I cleaned. Well, last night, the back story, last night he went on his first night fishing with me at Willie's Pond. And so we caught five crappie, or I did, because we were on the bridge. So he was, you know, he's not big enough to, you're catching a crop in, then you have to lift it over the bridge. So, but he held the bag for me, which was awesome.

And loved every minute of it. He just, I had a little, you know, like a bag you get from a grocery store. Mm-hmm. Yeah. He just had it open. Pop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. And wish I'd, I didn't have my phone because in the middle of all that, I caught about a three-pound bass on two-pound test line. And so then I was going to take a picture, but I didn't have my phone.

Now, getting a three-pound bass over a bridge that you're 20 foot above the water, pro-mo. Just the whole thing fascinated him, you know, so it was, it was awesome. I feel good about this. It's good to teach him the ways of the outdoors. Oh, I'm loving this process. But what I wanted to say before we get started, I wanted to commend our viewers. We have the greatest listeners in the world. We do.

Without a doubt, that's true. I'm going to prove it. So when I came in and sat down, there was an obstacle or an obstacles act. on the table and I took it off because if I didn't, it might be a distraction for while I'm talking. But this came in the mail. I'm going to hold it up from one of our fans. You ready?

The reveal. Oh, wow. I hope you heard that sound. That is massive. I'm having to. Oh, it's massive. So if you're listening, it's a metal work that looks like a fish that has unashamed in Romans 1.

16, but it's all metal. It's somebody welded it together, right, Jay? You know what I found fascinating? This came in the mail. Wow. I would say, yeah, well, thank you. I would say 50 pounds. We ever did that, thank you.

That's awesome. That needs to go right there behind you by Phil's Bible. We've got to figure out a way to expand the fireplace offering back there. Let me tell you something. If somebody breaks in here with harm. Yeah. I'm going classic fail here. I'm grabbing this.

It's a metal fish that says Romans 116. Unashame. Unashame. Unashame. It's awesome. That's cool. So thank you for that. That's the gift that keeps on giving.

It will be here long after we're gone. Well, Jay's, I was, so this last week, I was on the road. Of course, I was in North Carolina for a couple of events. And then I parachuted in to a blue state. California. And so I get in there. You jump out of a plane on your ride? Well, that's why I say. I parachute behind enemy lines. But actually, I just flew into Sacramento. It wasn't quite as scary as all that. But I get into the green room, which is,

of course, never a green room. It's always some other color. And I'm waiting to go out to speak. And I look up and there's a picture, a huge picture of you on the wall. in this room. And you had signed the picture, and you wrote the gospel symbols on there. And there were other pictures on the wall as well. And Mac Powell was next to you. And Mac had signed it. And then they were like the small bones were there.

And Rebecca, St. James and some other people. And so I was like, I guess you've been there. It was Yuba City. You were there like a month ago. And they had you there a month later. They had me there a month later in the same church. and the church hosted a Christian school fundraiser when you were there. It hosted a pregnancy center fundraiser when I was there.

So it was same church, different events. It was so funny. So when I went out, my opening line, I said, how many of y'all heard Jay speak here about a month ago? And it was surprisingly like a lot of people had heard you speak. And I said, well, I got one word for you tonight. And I just kind of dramatically paused. I said, upgrade. And nobody laughed.

No, it was a big laugh, Jayce. They got a big laugh. And then I said, no, I'm just kidding. I'm sure Jay's did an amazing job, which they all clapped when I said that too. But it was kind of funny. I'd never been like right behind somebody else in the family. It is funny. In California of all places.

In California. But Jay's, those people were so excited. I mean, just, man, what an awesome crowd. I mean, wonderful people. The people at my table that host is. were fantastic. I mean, it was a, it was an exciting event. I mean, I love going to places where folks like that.

It's just, it's almost like they're under this tyrannical government, you know, but I mean, they are thriving for the cause. It's the perfect place for my new walk-up song. And this, I have to admit, Zake, this is in response to the mansions over the hilltop argument about 10 podcasts ago that people in the world, every time they see me, they won't let it. What is their take on? Are they pro mansion or anti- mansion?

They were mostly on your side, saying it's just a pitcher, you know. Okay. People like that song. They're like, I want my mansion, man. I want my mansion. Well, my point is, even, and look, I got a new walk-up song. And when I tell you this, I debated on whether to bring this up. but I think I will

but long as you don't argue with me, Zach, here's my new walk-up song. Okay. You ready? Yeah. And let me give you the context. Because it's not in my nature to speak in front of people. And what I mean by that is,

I never wanted to do that. I've always said that was my biggest fear from childhood. I did not like speaking in front of people. So, but the Lord, change that. So I'm giving the Lord 100% credit on that. And so, but one thing I have to do

is just to get myself going when I'm fixed to stand up in front of people is kind of like they're doing baseball. They have walk-up songs. You know, they do that because you're like, hey, I'm trying to get the vibe. And so most of them are contemporary Christian music,

but the one I've been on lately you ready I won't back down Tom Petty Oh I'm Hey look you're in my wheelhouse now I will never argue with you About making a Tom Petty song

Your Walk-up song I love Tom Petty But you know you know I say that Because I think Sometimes you You know when you When I first heard that song I remember me and my dad talking about it

And I can't remember if he said it or I said it, but we heard that song. And one of us said, I think Tom's been reading his Bible. You know, the first line of it is you can stand me up at the gates of hell, but I won't back down. And he's like, hey, baby. That sounds like revelation. Well, let me tell you a little something.

Stan. Let me give you, let me tell you a little something about that song. Oh, I know the history of the song. and I'm glad we're going here. What do you think I'm going to say? Oh, I thought you were going to tell the reason he wrote that song. Oh, I don't know why he wrote the song. Oh, it is absolutely fascinating.

I was going to give you a little Tom Petty history. Tom Petty is from a little place that we like to call Gainesville, Florida, which is where I was born and raised. I knew he was. He went to high school at Gainesville High School with my dad, and he had a band called Mud Crutch back in the day. and if you watch a Florida game, which Florida's about to make a turn here,

we're going to get rid of the coach, and we're going to hire somebody else. But at the fourth quarter of every game, they sing that song, the whole stance. Everybody, and it is, I mean, it is, I mean, it brought me the tears. Last time I was down there, the whole, I mean, I went down to a game,

we were playing Alabama, and the fourth quarter starts, and they start singing that song. And I would be like, if I told you I did not tear up. I did. I teared up during the song. It's powerful.

That's funny because Alabama has Leonard Skinner, you know, they've got Sweet Home Alabama and Florida has Tom Hed. And y'all do that Garth Brooks Baton Rouge song. Yeah, we had the Baton Rouge song. Well, let me give you the history here. So the man is inside his house in California. Yeah. With his wife, I think five-year-old daughter.

And an arsonist sets his head. house ablaze while he's in it. An arsonist, they never found, which it traumatized him. I mean, just think about in real life the fact that there's someone out here who's trying to kill you and your family. And they never caught him. Wow. And so he did interviews about it. He's like traumatized for years. And so one day, now, I don't know all the details because I mean, I didn't devote a lot of time to the research, and it was years ago when I did this. Because that line got me. Because I was like, is he a believer?

When I, the lyrics started off, well, I won't back down. No, I won't back down. You can stand me up at the gates of hell, but I won't back down. No, I'll stand my ground. Well, then I was thinking, Ephesians, Chapter 6. Yeah, Epheson 6. Stand, stand your ground. I was like, okay, I'm seeing a spiritual battle.

I mean, because I know at the gates of hell, I know with us, Matthew 16. Jesus said, I'll build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it or withstand it, the church. Then it says, I won't be turned around. And listen to this line, and I'll keep this world from dragging me down. Remember a little deal about the world within the world? Going to stand my ground. There ain't no easy way out.

Now I'm like, come on. Jesus, here he is coming into the world, and he's praying his heart is troubled. I mean, there just wasn't an easy way out of this world, even to save the world. And so I'm like, okay, another connection. I'll stand my ground. And listen to this. I know what's right. I got just one life in a world that keeps pushing me around.

So it's dragging me down. He's got points here. It's pushing me around. But I'll stand my ground. So when they asked him where that song came from, he said after years of trauma and all that, and I would interject my opinion to doing a little Bible study,

he wrote this song in response. And he rebuilt his house on that same site, saying, I'm going to stand my ground here. You're not going to push me around. I'm tired of being controlled in fear. So I thought that was fascinating. That is fascinating. And I've always loved that song.

Even though it's a gator song, I've always loved that song. Yeah, I actually went down the rabbit hole and seeing what happened, you know, after he finally got a divorce and the house was sold and some kind of demonic group moved into the house. They got arrested. It was kind of a fascinating story. And then, of all people, Selena Gomez bought it. I'm not sure if she's still there, but that's where the trail went cold.

What? Well, Jay's came ready today. He's a pop culture. I'm looking this up here, you know, on the fly. I didn't want to. We took a right turn into TMZ today, Jay. Well, what I'm saying is what's powerful about that stonk, it is, you see things, and I'm like, I hope, I know he was raised in a Christian environment,

and I, you know, I hope at some point he found the Lord. he's no longer on the earth. Yeah. And because I would love when we get up there to see Tom Petty and just start this off in the next gathering with a little, Down, no, I won't. And so that's your walk-up zone now? That's my walk-up song.

And so I was just making a point about these songs. I like these songs that come from real life that lead people to try to find the answers to life. and the Bible is the greatest book where that happens. And it leads you to a person. So, and I just, I think you see so many, so many cross-sections in life of those kind of issues. But the thrill is that that's what produces songs like that. I mean, somebody literally tried to kill the guy.

You know, he's just in there with his family. I mean, it just burns me up. No pun intended. Yeah, it's important. It's important for all of us to really. realize that, and I don't know if it's maybe more, it just seems like people are more excited everywhere I go. Maybe it's the kind of Charlie Kirk, you know, thing that happened that kind of has people

excited about just being, you know, remember Charlie Murray. You used to say out loud and on purpose, you know. No, that's the same thing, Al. I mean, that's why there's a revival, especially in America, but I'd say around the world. Yeah. I mean, you know, enough's enough here. When you don't have answers to life's basic questions and you resort to violence to try to silence people, especially people that are declaring Jesus, I mean, and that's another reason.

That's my walk-up song right now. And so all those people that passed me on my way here, that's what I was doing. I was singing that song at the top of my lungs. Let's go. Yeah, you mentioned, too, in the pre-show show, the pre-show. pre, you know, we have our pre-conversation about that revival spirit. We're all kind of feeling, which we've talked about this. I'm going to throw it out there, Jace, even though we were just kicking around.

I think we should do some kind of conference, either in Dallas, Atlanta, Knoxville. I think we need to do an event. Unashamed event. Let's do three. Let's do three. We've never done that. I'm curious if the audience, if you guys would show up if we did something. Really, we just talked about this morning.

I say we bring our wives. Yeah. We're going, we're going God, dot, dot, Jesus, dot, Holy Spirit within all the same dot. Yeah. Family, so let's bring the wives. And let's just do three events. And let's declare Jesus as Lord.

That would be fun. I think it would be a good time. I think we should do it. Yeah. For a nominal fee, so we can do it right, production-wise. Yeah. What means that?

You got to people, it doesn't matter what you say if they can't hear it. That's right. Get the lighting right. Get the right being you, all this stuff. Yeah, and let's do it. Have some good worship. We'll get the kids to do some worship. No.

Great worship. And look, the first song, Tom Petty. Find somebody who will start practicing right now. We could call it the I won't back down to her. I won't back down. Yeah. Stand. That's not a bad down.

bad that's not a bad play there the unashamed podcast yeah yeah because i mean you gotta remember these walk-up songs become famous like trump has the village people whatever i don't even know what that means you know but it's his thing and people are oh yeah he does the dance whatever i let's let's go with tom petty then we'll ease them because we're we're trying to build the bridge we're you know in the spirit of heaven and earth coming together in jesus so take somebody that oh, it's a worldly song that's good. But, ooh, why did he write it?

See what I mean? Yeah. Let's build some bridges. I think it would be awesome. Let's do that, Zett. 2026 will be that. It's funny that, because you said that when we started the podcast about doing something like that.

I mean, we just kind of honestly just spitballing it around, but I had somebody reached out to me this week who actually plans these things and can organize, I mean, I don't know how to do all that. But a guy reached out to me that we had met, and he came, when we were in Nashville, he came by the studio to say hello because he listens to the Unashamed podcast. And his name was Shannon. And he's probably listening to this. And so he said, hey, let's talk about maybe doing a tour. That's what we do for Christian artists. I was like, I don't know if we'd ever do anything like that. I don't think Jay should ever do that.

And then you came in this morning and said what you said. So maybe that's God. Well, I think it's a great idea because, I mean, we've been, Jason and I've been doing quite a bit of speaking this year just in, you know, fundraisers and different events around the country. And I'm telling you, people are hungry. And people are excited, you know, just about being out there in bold. There's no doubt about it.

And, man, I run into so many listeners of the podcast that just, I mean, give me life-changing stories about how it's impacted them and how the Bible's impacted them. Of course, a lot of comments about dad, you know, so. But I love the idea about the wives, too, Jay's because dad told us, never lead the house without your woman or your Bible. So that's what we're bringing if we come. All right, well, we'll just let the people decide.

Yeah, we're here for me. Al, the number one question I got yesterday at the church that you preach at once a month, are y'all ever going to get to John 18? I said the same thing. I said, we're giving you the forest, the context, so that when you read John 18, you'll say, oh, wow, I didn't see that. We have taken quite a few, what do you, rabbit hole, trails from John 18.

I have quite a few other rabbit holes that have happened in the last three days, and I'm not bringing them up because I want to get to John 18. Well, good. Well, we're there. And I think what we were talking about earlier, contextually, we couldn't be in a better spot because, I don't know, as we mentioned before in this text, I kind of teeter back and forth between anger and just almost disbelief that people could be so corrupt. You know, when I look at the setting that was there around when Jesus, you know, just the

injustice that happened. But at the same time, you're also filled this, you know, huge, like, underpinning of salvation because you realize what he did for us, you know, and what he took for us. So I just kind of feel like my emotions go back and forth in this study. I mean, have y'all felt that way? Absolutely. Well, I have, but I've also, I think this idea of us bringing up the defeat of his enemies, and this not only was a servant and a sacrifice, he was also this, this is the, what is the best way to put this?

The culmination of the kingdom that he has been declaring, the kingdom is near. The king is here. the kingdom is at a hand the kingdom is like all these references because you just never would it to me the reason we've taken to me rabbit holes is of all ways to declare yourself as king you just not you would not pick this this mode yeah i mean that's why it starts where the i think the only paragraph that we've covered is when he came up and they're they're fixing to arrest him and he's like I am he. I mean, and Peter's like,

get the sword out. And he's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Not like this. Yeah. And because you would just think, I mean, I think I sympathize with Peter because I thought you were a king. Let's do some kingly stuff.

Power. Cut people's ears off. I mean, let's take over the world. No, I think you're right. And we actually did the first 14 verses of 18 because we got into the last couple. We did some rabbit holes, the last couple of podcasts. But in that, we talked about the mob that came to get him, which was a mix of Roman soldiers and temple guards. They took him to Anas, which was interesting because Annas is not the high priest.

He's the former high priest, but he's kind of the quote unquote godfather of the whole high priest system, which we mentioned how corrupt it was. And then also he eventually is going to wind up before Caiaphas, which is the actual high priest. So that's where we are in the text. And then... And you brought that up, and these were Jewish leaders. Now, I believe the scholars said these were Sadducees.

Yeah. So they're kind of the aristocrats of the Jewish system is what... Wealthy. Definitely had a different biblical view than the Pharisees, for sure. Well, the little joke you always can remember is they didn't believe in the resurrection. They were sad, you see. Yeah. That's the only way I can remember that.

Yeah, I just thought of that. I was about to, but you preemptively struck on that one, but I was thinking the same thing. They were sad you see. If you didn't get that, then we got problems. Yeah. I'm saying just to the list. But also the Pharisees numerous times, they were out to get him too. I mean, when you kind of do that search and,

And the reason I'm bringing this up, especially I've spent a lot of time in the rabbit holes that I'm not going down in the book of Psalms, which is there's 150 of them. But over and over it talks about this Jesus being king and his enemies being made his footstool. I think that's Psalms 110, Psalm 110, and other places. And even Isaiah, you keep seeing this about. the enemies. And I think that's an important point. So, you know, because there's other, the other gospels kind of go into more detail on how all this happened also. And I think you had that in the no detail. Yeah. Exactly. Because when you read all, all the accounts together, you piece together a lot more detail. I mean, we're obviously viewing it from the lens of John.

So even like going before Caiaphas, John doesn't even go into what happened there. But you go to the Matthew account, you can read exactly, you know, the questioning that went down. But you got to remember, all this is illegal. This is not how, this is not how the system was laid out. You don't go in the middle of the night to, you know, and have these trials. Everything was always public, multiple witnesses. I mean, when you were talking about a capital crime, which is what they're accusing him of, I mean, they want to kill him. You, you wouldn't go about it this way at all. So, so none of this is legal or right. Just, just, just, So you know, this is. And they did it because they didn't have the right or authority to kill another human being, no matter what he did. Right.

The Jewish leaders. They're under Rome's rule. Rome had they were the only ones that could kill a person. Yeah. Well, and take responsibility for it. That's the thing. I mean, they were afraid to come out against him. That's why all the secrecy and the cloak stuff and go get him in the middle of the night and all this. And now that's why it's going to turn when we get there to pilot because they need an official way to blame somebody else for his death. Which is interesting because they did have the authority to kill people. It just was because of the territory where this was happening. Because if you remember, they killed John the Baptist. But that was because that took place in a different territory.

So I don't think it's a coincidence that Jesus is actually in Roman occupied territory. where Roman rule is in charge. And I think that part of that is, again, because this is a fulfillment of messianic prophecy, going back to even going back to the kingdom, Daniel chapter 2, that statue, that last, so that last part of the statue was the Roman Empire where the clay and the bronze were mixed together.

And then that stone rolled out and crushed the feet of that whole statue. And so Jesus is that stone here. So you're seeing all of this come to, to play. There's a reason why this is happening in the particular area that's happening in, because Rome has to get involved, because they're part of the story, too, if you go back and read the prophecies, right? Rome's part of the story as well. And so it's not a coincidence that this is happening in an area that the Jewish rulers don't have the authority to kill him, and they have to cooperate with the Roman Empire to make this happen. Well, not only that, I mean,

you said it. This is all meant to be. And in fact, NTWra, brought an interesting point in John 19 when we get there, but I just want to mention now since you brought that up.

You remember when Pilate brings Jesus out after he's been scourged and he says, here is the man. And I had not really thought about that, but like that's the proclamation, Zach, of exactly what you're talking about.

That was the fulfillment in that moment. He was like, here is the man. As he's standing there, before them. Now, he didn't mean it that way. He's trying to, like, be mocking and like, because, you know, they've made him look the way they did. But he's actually fulfilling the privacy. Here is the man. I mean, this is him. Well, if you think about the power dynamic that's happening here, we talked in the previous podcast about how the Jewish rulers were the

power brokers in, but that's only in Judaism, right? So they were the power brokers in the, quote, unquote, like religious sector. But what Jesus is doing here, he's not just taking down the centralized power structure of religion. He's also taking down the centralized power structure of politics as well in the Roman Empire, which is pagan. So you have Jew and Gentile, both power structures in the same moment cooperating together to ultimately take down this king. And they think they're going to take him down and they don't understand it, which is kind of what John 18 is kind of, the way that the whole passage evolves is into a conversation at the end of Jesus basically saying, hey, let me tell you about my kingdom. You boys don't understand my kingdom. It's not

of this world. And so this is all about the kingdom, is what the point is. And there's two kingdoms that play here. There's the kingdom of this world, which is religious and political, cooperating together. and then there's the kingdom of God that stands against that, and then we're going to find out which one wins. I want to read this little section 19. We've referenced it a couple of times to 24, and then go back and do the Peter's denial. Because John, the way he does this, he sprinkles that part in.

But since we got him before Anna's, I want to read what he said. In verse 19, and now we'll go back and read the denial of Peter. Meanwhile, the high priest questioned Jesus about his disciples. and his teaching. So that's what's happened. This is quote unquote the first trial, even though it's in Annis's house. It's illegal, but this is the way it goes down. And so Jesus says, I have spoken openly to the world, Jesus replied. In other words, we're all here in secret, but he's been very open. I always taught in synagogues and at the temple where all the Jews come together. I said, nothing in secret. Why question me? Ask those who heard me. Surely

they know what I said, which is, you know, a very interesting way that Jesus goes about. He said, I'm not. This isn't some kind of secret rebellion. When Jesus said this, one of the officials nearby struck him in the face. Is this the way you answer the high priest? He demanded. And, you know, we said before, I wish Jesus, we wish Jesus would have said, I am the high priest. He is the high priest, but he, you know, Jesus says, if I said something wrong, testify as to what is wrong. But if I spoke the truth, Why did you strike me? And then Anna sent him still bound to Kaifah's the high priest. So he's going to go to the second level, which is the actual high priest from here.

But as we mentioned earlier, this is the first of an entire night and day of violence that begins right here against Jesus, which in the context of what we've been talking about in our culture today, Jays, that's when you don't have an answer to convince somebody. of a point or truth or whatever it is you're trying to, you know, deal with or argue or debate, violence is where you go when you have no answer. Yeah. And that's exactly what you see here. Yeah, it's an evil. And, I mean, sin and death. And, you know, the truth in these days was who was king and how much power did you have.

That's what dictated the truth. And if you didn't comply, they wielded it. I mean, violence was basically how you obtain truth and power. Right. And you see that in Jesus. So let me go back. So that's what happens before Anas, and then he sent on to Kaifas, which I told you, you can read about that in Matthew 27 before Caius,

that kind of second. But it's more of the same thing. They had a couple of people that said, what he said he was going to destroy the temple, and then he would rebuild it in three days. But they couldn't even get any consensus really against him. But while this is happening, he predicted that Peter was going to deny him. So I want to read those two, and let's talk about that a little bit.

In verse 15, Simon Peter and another disciple who most scholars think was John that he was referencing himself. Well, that was actually Matthew 26. You said 27. With the Kaifahs, situation. Yeah, that's Matthew 26, 57. But I do think that is an interesting part when he said, that's in 61. This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days. Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, are you not going to answer? What is this

testimony that these men are bringing against you that Jesus remained silent? The high priest said to him, I charge you under oath by the living God, tell us if you're the Christ, the son of the living God. And he says, yes, it is as you say, but I say to all of you in the future, you will see the son of man sitting at the right hand of the mighty one and coming on the clouds of heaven,

which is that quote from Daniel 7 that Zach was mentioning. Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, He has spoken blasphemy. Why do we need any more witnesses? Look now, you have heard the blasphemy? What do you think? He is worthy of death, they answered. Then they spit in his face, struck him with their fists.

Others slapped him. He said, prophesied us, Christ, who hit you? So now they're making fun of him because he's claiming to be this answer to prophecy from Daniel 7, which is awesome because he's going to establish a kingdom that would crush all other kingdoms and it itself would endure forever and he is the king that's why they're leading to the point of dressing him up and putting a crown of thorns yeah it's actually they're making fun of him but by doing that and then putting the sign king of the jews it's actually god is portraying the truth right this is this is the king of the jews but they're like oh it can't be

Of course, none of this makes sense until the resurrection. Well, you know, and even I thought it was interesting because reading N.T. Wright's commentary on this, he made a point I had never thought about that, you know, Pilate tries to substitute Barabbas, who was a terrorist. I mean, who's basically the whole concept was a lie. He thought he could somehow flip the government by doing terrorist acts. But he tries to substitute him for Jesus. But in essence, Jesus is the substitute. because he's truth.

He's the substitute, not only for Baravis, but all of us, you know, which is really interesting. Oh, exactly. Well, and that's why some of these people I meet on the street, they're like, why do you all keep talking about the kingdom and the temple? Well, I just read it, Matthew 26. This is what this was all about, because the temple is where God met humans. Yeah. And the kingdom, you have this prophecy in Daniel 7, which we keep bringing up.

because if you believe the Bible is true, you need to figure out how to be a part of that kingdom that was being predicted. Yeah. Because it crushes all other kingdoms and it endures forever. Well, I want to be a part of that kingdom. Yeah, exactly. Which is why Peter's getting out his sword saying, oh, okay, because he believes he is that king. And so I really think that the reason we were trying to be.

to give the big picture of all this because when you understand what the temple is and Jesus is saying I am the connection of heaven and earth this is where God and people meet you say where is that him yeah he's embodied the place he is the place even though he's a person where heaven and earth come together. I mean, think Ephesians 1, you know, where it says the whole point of this since the beginning of time, you know, God predestined in love

so that everything in heaven and on earth would be brought under one head. That is Christ. I mean, you think about, I think one of the most important verses in the Bible is right here in John 18 that we, which centers the crucifixion of Christ in this conversation around the kingdom.

I think it's this verse when he says, we read over this so much, but he basically says, my kingdom is not of this world. And then he says that if it was of this world, he said, if it was of this world, my servants would have been fighting that I might not be delivered over to the Jews,

but my kingdom's not of this world. And so whatever is being established here, and think about what he's saying there. If I was, if my kingdom was from this world, then we would be doing what you guys are doing. We would, what Peter did, when he pulled out the sword and cut the dude's ear off, like we'd let that roll out and play out and see how, who won. And he's actually reestablishing what true power is. And it's actually going to be in the sacrifice itself that Christ on the cross is going to show a different type of victory. that they did not see coming.

It's a divine victory. It's a victory that can't be understood without the spirit. It is a victory that transcends this world. And I think it is the very nature of the kingdom of God is that we actually win through sacrificial love.

That's the big difference here. And it's right there in John chapter 18. Well, I was just going to say, and meanwhile, the reason we spent so much time given the forest for the trees, is you see all these players, and I'm saying players, religious leaders, Pharisees, Sadducees, the evil one, you know, entering Judas by the betrayal. You even see Peter's denial and his misinterpretation of what God is like and how he's going to pull this off.

You also have the Romans here who think they have all the power. but so not only is God taking care of our sins in Jesus and showing us his love and you know all these different aspects of what's happening he's also destroying all these these walls of people coming together and you see this predicted in Isaiah and you'll you you kind of get the feel of it post-resurrection when he says, go into, go preach the gospel to all nations. Why is he doing that? I thought this was a Jewish thing.

You remember in Acts 1-8? I brought this up. They're reading that they're doing a series in Acts at WFR, Al, and at the end of the service, they read that together. There was a woman sitting to my right yesterday, and when they read it, and I'll read it, Acts 1-8. it says, you will be my witnesses. Let me get the exact phrase.

Acts 1-8, but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, in all Judea, Samaria, and then there's this little phrase, and to the ends of the earth. Yeah. So I leaned over after we said it, and I said, where are the ends of the earth? and she said, that's a very good question. It's kind of prove my point.

We're all quoting something as a group. And it's like, what exactly is that? And what I found fascinating was then the service was over and then I started doing a rabbit hole about the ends of the earth. At least you waited until it was over this time. I did. Multiple Psalms talking about this king that would go out until the ends of the earth.

Isaiah 49 has a reference in there toward the end of the chapter. I can find it. And my point is, I think the reason we're trying to give the forest for the trees is this was all about Israel. You know, you had Israel, it's holy, it's God's holy nation.

It was holy ground. But then they were unfaithful, and then a remnant of Israel comes out, and all these depictions, and they're viewed from Isaiah's perspective as servants. You have this righteous remnant. Who experienced? Look, judgment and the wrath of God just because they're part of the Jewish nation. And then you have this other picture of a servant, this perfect Israelite that's going to come forth,

the root of Jesse and all this language, the suffering servant, you know, in Isaiah 52, 53, which is Jesus. But it's also promised in all those views through Israel that all nations is going to go to the end of the earth. He's going to bring everyone under one head in heaven and on earth in Christ. And so that's the, you see all these different players as my point and all these so-called, in quotation, enemies of God. Yeah. And he's not only saving Israel.

But he's also going to launch this new creation to the whole earth. And I think people miss that. Yeah, and the Jace, the Greek is, I just looked up the Greek on it. And if you were doing this by the Greek, it would be the last of the globe. That's kind of what the ends of the earth is. Why is he bringing that up, is my point? What have we missed here? I mean, there's still people in our culture today thinking,

oh, we're going to fly, I have to fly over Israel at some point when Jesus comes back. And I'm like, I'm pretty sure he's made the whole place, the earth. I mean, I think Romans 8, you know, right in between 9 and 11, talking about how we restore Israel in Jesus and the role of the righteous remnant. But he has that Romans 8, and you're like, man, this seems a little bigger. Whether the way it happens, too, I think when people have that viewpoint, it's because they're thinking in an earthly kingdom mindset. To my point I was making earlier, what's happening here in this moment is that Christ is establishing a new type of power dynamic. And that's what you see at the ascension, which you just mentioned, but you will receive power, right? That's Acts chapter 1, verse 8.

You will receive power when? when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the ends of the earth. So you ask the question, well, it sounds like these guys are about to receive some incredible power.

They're going to go do something wild. They're going to spread across the whole globe. The problem is that they didn't. Go read Acts 2. They received the Holy Spirit, but they didn't move until Acts chapter 8. And then in Acts chapter 8, after the stoning of Stephen, you think, well, there goes that movement, that whole thing is done.

But see, you're seeing the whole thing play out again. Just like when they killed Jesus, they thought it was the end. It wasn't the end. And when they killed Stephen, well, I guess the church has done now. And it says here, Saul approved the execution. And listen to the language in Acts 8. And there arose on that day a great persecution against the church in Jerusalem. So they were all held up in Jerusalem.

They had not done what they were supposed to do in Acts chapter 1. They had not gone out yet. And they, when the persecution broke out, it says, and they were scattered throughout the regions. Listen to where they were scattered. Of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles. Devout men buried Stephen and made a great lamentation over him. But Saul was ravaging the church, entering house to house, and he dragged him out. But basically, so they took, they went, they did not go to Judea, Samaria, and to the ends of the earth until a great persecution broke out against the church after the stoning of Stephen.

And so the reason why that's important. is because when you look at the way God is always expanding his kingdom, he doesn't need earthly power to do that. In fact, when you think the kingdom is being defeated is actually when the kingdom is expanding. And I think that's such

a beautiful story. Which is the irony because we're out of time, but the irony, Zach, in the next chapter in Acts 9, is the man who was doing all the persecution. He winds up being the one that takes it to the ends of the earth. He takes to the Gentiles. Yeah. I want to love,

I want to give this verse reference because I referred to it. I want to read it. This is Isaiah 49 speaking of the servant of the Lord in verse six. Listen to this. And now the Lord says he who formed me in the womb to be his servant to bring Jacob back to him and gather Israel to himself. This is verse 5. For I am honored in the eyes of the Lord and my God has been my strength. But watch what he goes on to see in verse 6. It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Israel. So we're talking about Israel, right? And bring back those of Israel I have kept.

I will also make you a light for the Gentiles that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth. And then the last verse in 49, the last section says, Then all mankind will know that I the Lord am your savor, your redeemer, the mighty one of Jacob. There's a bigger picture here going on. Well, I want to add more, but we're 47 seconds over time, but I got, boy, you just, that's okay. All right, just hold that thought. Hold that thought for the next podcast. We'll pick it up next time on our Unashamed.

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