Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1191 | Jase Faces the Santa Dilemma That Launches a Lesson on Resurrection & Creation

Episode Date: October 21, 2025

SPOILER ALERT! This episode contains discussions of Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy. Listener discretion is advised in the presence of young children! The Mia Moo Mascot loses its head and Jase is forced to have an uncomfortable conversation with his three-year-old godson about Jesus, Santa, and all the other characters in kids’ lives. The guys turn to a thoughtful conversation about Santa, honesty, and how to protect a child’s wonder while pointing them toward lasting truth. They dive into the hope of the resurrection and the promise that creation itself will be made new, tracing how Scripture ties together red letters, black letters, and the story of real, bodily renewal for all who follow Christ. In this episode: 2 Corinthians 5, verse 1; 1 John 3, verse 2; Romans 8, verses 23–26; Ephesians 1; Ephesians 2; Galatians 3; 1 Corinthians 15; Acts 1; Acts 7; Acts 17; Hebrews 1, verses 1–2; 2 Peter 3, verses 15–16; Psalm 22, verses 1, 27, 31; Psalm 23; Psalm 67, verse 7 Chapters: 00:00-04:42 We love our military & veterans!  04:43-12:40 The difference between Santa & Jesus 12:41-19:50 Bring back enchantment in our kids 19:51-27:17 What will our post-resurrection bodies be like? 27:18-35:33 How the Holy Spirit intercedes for us 35:34-43:30 The “red letters” debate 43:31-49:52 Don’t elevate doctrine over Jesus 49:53-56:22 Ultimate unity in Jesus — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to the Unashamed podcast. Zach, we were talking about in between, because we just finished a podcast. There's a documentary that's coming out this Thursday, October 23rd. It's called Off School Property. And these guys at Lifewise Academy, I ran into them a cup, but maybe three or four years ago for the first time I was speaking up in Ohio. and I was amazed at what these guys are doing to teach the Bible during school hours. And I didn't know it was possible.

I guess like a lot of great things that are going on in our culture, you don't always know about them. But it was really pretty fascinating. Yeah, I didn't know this either, but apparently when they kicked the Bible out of schools, which we saw how that turned out for American culture, there was like a loophole in the decision where you could still, teach the Bible in schools if the parents got involved. It was like a weird kind of loophole. So these guys have

been like, I guess they found this out and have been like trading on this. And so they're doing a movie that comes out this Thursday, October 23rd. And yeah, it's going to talk about how we can get involved, get the Bible back in schools. Obviously, we believe in that. So if you want to be a part of that, go to lifewise.com slash unashamed. You get your tickets. I actually remember these guys because we had them on the podcast. We did. Yeah. Yeah. Well, That should have probably been the lead. That's why we have you. I buried the lead, Jay.

We've done so many podcasts. We can't even remember who we've had on. But to be fair, when it comes to the Bible, you know, we're all about that. This is a Bible study. So you guys check it out this Thursday in theaters and get tickets at lifewise.com slash unashamed. Also update, I just got a text from our buddy Chad Robeshow. and he told me, I'm going to read y'all this text. He said he said, can I come on?

Can I, can I, what do you say here? I want to, I'd love to come into the podcast, break in with a live announcement. I don't think that's possible, Chad, but I'll at least give you, I'll give the announcement because it is pretty cool. So he has been asked to speak with J.D. Vance, Vice President J.D. Vance and the Secretary of Hedgeseth to the Marine Corps. they're going to do a combat demonstration showcasing 250 years of greatness, and Chad's going to get to speak to 20,000 Marines.

That's pretty cool. So congrats, Chad. I know that God's put you in that position. So I wish we could be there to witness that. That's going to be incredible. Well, it's funny that he's doing that, Zach, because I was just in, after I left you guys in Black Mountain, I went to Jacksonville, North Carolina,

and not really being a fissionado. of North Carolina geography, I didn't realize that was the military town that's associated with Camp Lejeune, speaking of the Marine Corps, right there in North Carolina. And so the event that we spoke at, which was for a pregnancy center, but most of the people there were all vets. And some of them were currently serving as well. And, man, you talk about a wired audience. The table I was sitting at up front was the, there were four 30-year Marine Corps vets that had spent their lives, you know, training other Marines. And one of them was a lady who was a former drill instructor. And she was this kindest, most soft-spoken woman.

I can't imagine her being right in somebody's face, you know, doing what the DIs do. But just the stories I heard were fascinating. But it's just another reminder we talk a lot about on the podcast. much we love the military. And Robosho, of course, at the top of that list, along with the Triple J and a lot of other people that we love. Oh, Blake, who's Blake, who's, Blake, who's talking with Jace. I hope Jay said leading him to Australia in the Bible study. Yeah, Jay's, are you going to include Zach in your studies so y'all can argue for Blake? I'm only going to have to give Blake credit. He has just been filled with a passion.

And we have studied so indefinitely over the last few weeks. But it's so exciting to me how that thrill of just studying the greatest book ever. Because it leads to the greatest being that can be known. I mean, it leads you back to a person, which I'm not shocked that we're talking about how to help kids in school. And these military guys, you know, had the most interesting conversation with this three. three-year-old that I call a little man, because he's just enamored with, number one, Santa Claus. And I have a bad history with Santa Claus because the most mad of my wife ever got at me was when, I don't know how old Cole was. But he just come in there one day and was like, is Santa Claus real?

I think he was five or six. And I just looked at him and thought, no. And she got so angry. But you know how we were raised, and I think I've shared that story before, but I just thought it's so difficult to tell little kids, oh, this is not real, but Missy wanted to keep the excitement. And so little man, the one I currently have, he's just enamored. He's like, what happened to Santa Claus? So it's the conversation throughout the year, and I'm excited because Christmas is right around the corner now compared to where it was. when this conversation started.

But then we had the Mia Mu a couple weekends ago. We have a mascot that, I don't know where we got that, but a kid will put that mascot on it. And it's like a life-size mascot of my daughter, Mia. Well, we had a little man out there, and he's like, what is this? I mean, what is this? And so I'm trying to explain to him, it's a mascot. It's not real.

There's a person inside the mascot. Well, everything was fine until we got home after it was over, and someone had disassembled the mascot, put it in a bag, and he saw it because it was slightly open. Well, he just breaks down. He's like, I mean, Mia has lost her head. He's like, Jero, we got to take, we got to take Mia to the hospital.

And I'm looking around like, what are you talking about? She's fine. She's fine. He's like, no, come see. So he goes out there and I'm looking. Here's this disassembled mascot, which is traumatized, this three-year-old. I bring this up to say, do you all have any idea how to explain that to a three-and-a-half-year-old? How do you explain that?

That it's not a person, that it's just a... Yeah. Because I get the Christmas. Let's not take it. the thrill of Christmas so we try to lie which is why I told my son I'm not lying to my son but now I'm in the same predicament yeah I don't lie about Christmas either I mean I did the Jill got mad at me but I'm like it I don't like the yeah I wasn't a big fan of the the the lion so they asked me about five I'm like no he's not real well I did look I went Jesus

son of God when he when my son after he I said no he's not real And he's like, well, who is it? And I looked at him and I said, I am Santa Claus. I want you to. I am. I did. I said, I want you to be a good boy because Santa Claus comes through the guy you're looking at, your dad.

You hadn't been so good this year? Guess what? Very few presents. Basic survival. So I actually looked up AI about and I typed in. I was like, how do you tell a three and a half year old kid that a mascot is not real? You know what the first thing it replied? It said, well, you need to do what people similarly do when they describe Santa Claus.

I thought, boy, you're talking about a bunch of junk. So the point I'm bringing that up is because this got weird when he said, oh, is it like Jesus? And I was like, what do you mean? Because he had equated, because we talk about Jesus all the time. Well, where is Jesus? I was like, nope.

Now, he's real. And I had a 20-minute discussion with, even though we don't see him, Jesus is real. He's not a mascot. And we have his spirit in us. And of course, he's just looking dumbfounded. But I'm like, but a mascot,

is only real if a live person gets in the costume. It's a costume. We just couldn't get it. But I tried to segue into the spirit of Jesus is in us. There's a real person. But I thought, man, this is very difficult to explain. But that was a long way to say, we need to be having these conversations with our kids. Well, it's funny, Jays, because we were in school, stone the Bible. there was a student there who believed that when Jesus left here, Acts 1, that as soon as he got out of sight, that he took his body off just like that mascot bag full of costume because he didn't need a body anymore where he was headed. And he believed that. I mean, he came in. He didn't believe that when he left once he studied something called the Bible.

That's not true. But he thought that. There's a lot of people that believe that resurrection and going to heaven, these kind of phrases are just bodiless existences. Right. Actually, when I preached a wedding recently, I may have said this in the podcast, I can't remember, all things kind of bar together. But I had in my notes, which, Alex, it's the same sermon you pre. I mean, we kind of have the same structure we've used for years in weddings. and in there it says something like and help each other get to heaven.

Well, to work alongside you to help get our family to heaven. That's the line. And I end up thinking, you know what, I might need to change this. You know, I mean, it was kind of funny. Like it's kind of sat in me. I said, I think I'm going to change the language of that. You know what I mean? Just because we really are, what we're saying is we're not getting to heaven.

Heaven's coming to us. And the kingdom of heaven is actually here in part now. and eternal life is now to know the one true God. I mean, it's all kind of there, you know. Well, it is. But, you know, we don't have to throw out the whole concept. There is, I mean, Jesus did, he did leave here. I mean, so the idea of saying he's at the right end of the father is still a solid concept.

But you're right. I think you do it a little bit differently when you understand what his true purpose really was. And it is different than the old songs we sang. Well, it's not that it's technically wrong. I think you can make a case for it. I think what it, the thing is, is the imagination that it sets for us. We typically, because I mean,

I think we're having a hard time. I have a hard time thinking about it, like coming and here and now. I'm always saying in a place I'm going to. And so I think it is helpful to reimagine and kind of come up with different language to shape the imagination for what actually we're talking about. There is an immediacy and an urgency to the kingdom.

them that it's now. You know, we're not sitting here like waiting it out. You know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, I agree. Well,

it was funny that we were talking about Santa Claus, Zach, because your son called, I was with your dad and, and is, would Ann be your stepmom now? Um, what's the official night? I guess so.

Yes. I guess so. You step mom. Yeah. So I was, we were with them. We went up and drove up on the highest point there in Black Mountain area. and your son, Bear, calls Papa, and he has Ruth with him.

And I think, I guess he was messing with. I don't know what he was doing, but he said he was calling Santa Claus, but he was actually calling Gordon and to see if he was going to bring her some presents. So that was the, that's why she wanted to talk to Santa. And so, you know, Gordon goes into this whole thing. You're going to get lots of presents. You're my favorite grandkids, you know, blah, blah, blah. And I hear her say at the end, she said, I think that was Papa.

But they were having this whole discussion about it. And I thought, I don't know if Bear is just trying to throw her off the set or what he was doing or just taking up time. But it was interesting because she was so excited. And then she said, but I think that was Papa. So she's pretty smart. No, I don't know. People, some people take a little discussion we just had very seriously. I mean, they think it's wrong to even celebrate Christmas.

and, you know, there's kind of some lines, you know, that are formed there on that or Easter. My grandkids, their favorite thing is the idea of the tooth fairy. I don't know if they believe it's real or not, but they love getting money for their teeth. And they'll do everything they can to lose teeth or, you know, pull them out so they can get paid. It's so funny because it's a house of courage. You've got to be careful with it. I mean, I remember when it came crumbling down around me was when I was, when I was, about five and it was the Easter bunny and so you know we kind of grew up y'all y'all kind of know we were

kind of in and out of uh we were pretty poor most of my early childhood and uh we i remember one particular Easter we didn't have any money and so we weren't going to have Easter baskets that year and so my parents that's how they told me that we're so poor that we're not going to be I have Easter baskets, and what that means is there's no Easter bunny. And so I was like, are you kidding me? I didn't believe them. I was like, you're lying. This is not true.

Like you're just saying this. And I said, I have to talk to my papa. He'll tell me the truth. And so they got my grandfather on the phone. And I said, is it true that there is no Easter bunny? And he confirmed that the Easter bunny was a lie. And then I realized, I said, well, what about the tooth fairy? He said, yep, you're on the right track.

Not true. There's no tooth fairy. And then the big one, wait a second. If there's no Easter bunny and there's no tooth fairy, what about Santa Claus? And he was like, yep, no Santa Claus either. And the whole house of cards came crumbling down. I didn't go as far as to say, what about God? So that was good, yeah, because I could have gone there next, but I didn't.

Yeah, that's a bit much. to hit it all at one time. I mean, you'd rather than kind of figure it out. I don't know. I've always been just more in the middle on it. I do think there's a wonder about holidays and stuff that's fun for kids. But, I mean, you know, so I think they all figured out at some point. So I don't know.

I see why I had so much trouble with it. Because y'all don't really know either what to tell. It's amazing. Well, I mean, I'm just saying what I did, but Jill says I'm like, Ebenezer Scrooge and I'm like no I'm just trying to set a proper expectation she said it's just holidays it's so like I know it's like controversy and um jill disagrees with me on this I have always told the truth when it comes these things because I remember how it felt when that house of cards came tumbling down around me so what I tell my I've always kind of drifted in with my kids

for when the time they were young yeah well I just hope they don't ask because I I don't like line. I'm a very honest person, and so I don't like it. But I do like the idea that they love Christmas, and when they're little, they love the concept of Santa Claus. So I just, I don't know. I just hope they don't ask. But mine

are all old enough now. I think they figure it. It's very difficult to explain. And I never thought about the mascot thing. Now, that's very interesting. But he's just not far. And his mind can't quite handle that yet. No, but Al. I mean, Missy's like,

I'm going to have to seek out some kind of psychiatric help to how to answer these questions. Every day, that's a discussion. Mascot, Mia, and he says, Santa Claus, is he still, he doesn't say pole. He says, oh, is he at the North Hole? I'm like, no, it's North Pole. Pole, let's get that right. The North Hole. When he's coming from the North Hole, I was like, pole, pole, it's North Pole.

I think there's an argument to be made for, like, these stories do help foster, like, imagination, kind of the enchanted world. We've lost a lot of that. So I do think there's a really good argument for bringing back, like, enchantment. I think that we need that if we're going to pursue the kingdom to understand and have, we're so, like, a scientific in everything that we do. It's like, you've got to be in a test tube, but that's not really the place that most of us live. We don't live in a test tube or a mathematical equation. and we actually live in a spiritual state as well. And so I do think that's why I think you're right.

The classics like C.S. Lewis's stuff or even Dickens, even some of his stuff, like the Christmas, is it Christmas Carol? Yeah. I mean, you know, those are great ways to be able to tell, you know, stories about spiritual things. And you're right. There's an enchantment about it. That's something that's good. I think you're on to something there. I mean, because even like you think of.

about, I thought about why y'all were talking that, 2ndthians 5-1, where it says, we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. Well, there's some mystery to that. You know, that form of the Greek word, because I looked it up, Schenios,

is that's the only time that's used for a tent there. So he's referencing the body. But when you look at the other places... Where are you at again? So Corinthians 5-1. Because I was thinking about the mascot, and we have a tent, and if that's destroyed, we have a building from God.

So I looked up that building. It's like, well, what is that? Well, that Greek word is mostly used for, like, the building up of one another? It's like an action word. Now it does say in Ephesians 2 it's used where it says, which is one of my favorite passages

and I'll read it, where it says we're no longer... The whole building? Yeah, the whole building joined together rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. But, you know, I don't know exactly what the new body is.

is going to be like. But Jesus, that 1 John 3-1 always trumps everything to me because it's like when Jesus comes back, we're going to see him as he is and we will be like him. Yeah. And it doesn't make much sense if, you know, to go into this new heaven and new earth concept, why did Jesus show him, show those disciples, his hands and feet?

What are we getting a body back for? Why go through all that? Why levitate and say, hey, I'll come back the same way you see me leave, which was an appearance. He appeared. And so that's kind of my take on it. I think there is some mystery. I mean, First Corinthiansth is 15th is an obvious place to go

because it's like the body that is sown, you know, the four things it says. It's sown a dishonorable body. it's raised in glory. It's on a natural body. It's raised a spiritual body, but it's still a body. It almost seems like, too, that he had some bit of shape-shifting ability, or at least could change his appearance.

You know, I mean, make himself not recognizable. Then he was recognized. So, I mean, he did a lot of pretty cool stuff that was 40 days after the resurrection. Like coming to a room, though the doors were locked. Yeah. Wait a minute. But then he showed him his hands and feet. Yeah.

He said, look at me. A ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see, I have. Yeah. It's an interesting question, though. I mean, that's a really powerful passage out of 2 Corinthians 5. It reminds me because he says here, very similar language. When you read that, you know what I thought about when he says, we have a building from God, a house not made with.

hands. Well, mine says human hands. Well, that's the same thing. Well, same concept. But what I thought about was what Stephen said at Estonia, we just talked about in the last podcast before the persecution broke out. He said, the Lord your God does not live in the temples made by man's hands, human hands. Them saw who was there giving the kind of the, the pre-the-death blessing. Yeah. The death blessing. the death blessing. He said the same thing in Acts 17.

The Lord your God does not dwell in temples built by human hands. Jesus said something very similar before his murder. And it's interesting that that language is still here. But then I wonder what this means. We could talk about it when he says the house, the building from God is eternal in the heavens. That's an interesting phrase, right? as we talk about heaven coming, but what is that?

Well, I think it's the heaven and earth coming together in a new, redeemed, newly created form. Yeah. I mean, that's why I'm tying it back to the temple when Jesus said, which is the very reason they killed him, saying he is the temple. I mean, he went me with me saying, I am Santa Claus.

he's like, I am the temple. Because he's like, you destroy this temple, and I'll raise it up in three days. Which, interesting enough, in John 1.14, when the word became flesh and made his dwelling, well, there's that tent. He pitched his tent. He tabernacled.

He took on flesh. Yeah. Then he died. And then it came back, it as in the body. And then I think it's that redacted. redemption rabbit hole we went on when it when Romans 8 says we groan because in second Corinthiansthus 5 2 the next phrase is meanwhile we grown we well we'll tie that in to what where he also look Romans 8 is very very clear Romans 8 in verse 23 we ourselves who have the first

fruits of the spirit grown inwardly grown inwardly as we eagerly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. And that's coming off the hills of this earth, the earth, being liberated from its bondage of decay. So whatever this new body is, no decay, no death, no dime. There's no entropy. No walls.

Look, no walls. Yeah. You can go through a wall. Listen to what Paul says in Ephesians 1 about these heavenly places too. He says, blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places. And it's a very similar language about the eternal in the heavens, right? What does all that mean? I think that someone asked me that this week about Ephesians 1. And what I think that is talking about there is you have to go back to the garden, to your point,

and the garden being the original temple. Before sin entered the world, the heavens and the earth were not separated in the way that they are now. They were working in tandem together. And because of sin, there's been a separation there. And in Christ, that's all coming back. So I think that when we, like that picture of the second coming, whatever is going to, whatever is the new body is going to be, whatever the new earth is going to be, what we know is that it's not going to be, it's not going to be in contrast to the heavens

in the sense that it's not going to be hostile. It will be a true unity, just like this, you know, it's going to be real integration. And that's what I think the groaning is now, it's that not yet. We're not there yet as we feel it. We feel the tension. we feel the burden right now we feel uncloat. We feel like we're naked. We feel like we're not quite.

Something's not quite right. I think that's the groaning. That's the longing. It's a recognition. And the process, though, has started, as we said, because Jays, if you keep reading in Romans 8 in verse 26, and this passage has always fascinated me, he says, in the same way,

the spirit helps us in our weakness, which you're describing, Zach, because it's a deposit, right? That's what Paul called it in Ephesians. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with, guess what, groans that words cannot express. And he searches our hearts. He knows the mind of the Spirit because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will. And so the process has begun when we're renewed, even on Earth, but it's not complete until the resurrection.

I mean, I think that's the clear evidence that you see from the whole Romans 8 discussion. But you're right. Even the Holy Spirit, he understands the grown. He lives in us. So he's able to even now pair that weakness of us in the not yet now to live lives that are full of hope and joy and, you know, not burdened by sin and not just drug down by sin, you know? Yeah, one of the reasons why I think he intercedes with words that we can't. express is because we have a C.S. Lewis said something like this. Like if you if you find yourself with a longing for something more than this world can provide perhaps you were made for another

world. It's a really kind of powerful apologetic or argument for like, you know, we all had that thing in us where we're like, man, I want this. I want something that I can't be satisfied here. But we don't really know what it is because it's transcendent. It's otherly. It's other And so to think about what eternity is, God's put eternity in the hearts of man, but we really don't have the paradigm to even express the longing that we have. We don't have the words to express it because our language limits us to the temporal spatial world. And God is so much bigger than what he's created. So we have this thing in us. I want something.

I don't know quite what it is. Well, the Spirit knows. the Spirit has exactly what it is what we want. And that's why he alone is the only one that can intercede for us because he's the only one that knows the mind of Christ is the spirit within. That's Paul's argument in 1st Corinthians, chapter 1, and 2, that only the spirit of God can know the thoughts

and the mind of God, and he can make that known to us. But meanwhile, we are groaning, and we don't even have the language to even articulate what it is. And God's like, that's okay, you don't need the language to articulate it. which is why Jesus spent all that time in John 14, 15, 16, explained to the disciples that it was going to be better for them when he left because he was sent his spirit to live inside of it. But they didn't get it at the time,

but they're about to get it where we are now. I'm not sure people get it today. Well, a lot of them don't. Yeah. You're exactly right. It's one of my problems, I think, with an over-emphasis on thinking that doctrine alone is going to somehow make you right. And people get so hung up on the doctrines of the faith.

And I'm not, I am not diminishing doctrine at all. But when you elevate it to the place where it's like, man, but you can't, I mean, you're never going to really be able to put all this in a package. And by here, get this right, and then you'll be okay. Now, there's a longing that you have that actually you can't even explain what it is. You don't even have the words to possess that. And if you're going to be preserved, you're going to have to lean on the Holy spirit. That makes people uncomfortable because you can't control that. You can't control him.

And it makes us very uncomfortable to say, no, I'm actually going to lean on the spirit to do my interceding and to work through me and in me. But that's the, but you're describing the battle of humanity. I mean, it's a relationship over rule, you know, but the, you know, people want it the other way around. So, well, you know, I need just rules. Just tell me how far I can go. Tell me the edge. And I want I want to stay in that space. And we're like, no, this is a relationship. I mean, the spirit lives in you.

This is a relationship with the God of the cosmos, you know? Well, it's kind of like when you take truth and try to make it your own. Missy had an interesting thing we discussed. And we kind of disagreed at first, because she went to a conference, and they were doing a Q&A. and a question was asked, it was something like this. It was like, what do you do about these people who are red letter people, and they don't believe the whole Bible should be read as equally important? And so Missy was a little annoyed by the answer,

because the answer basically was, well, every word is. the word of God and should be treated, you know, that was the answer. And it was like, can you believe that? And I was like, well, technically that's true. The Bible is the word of God from the first word to the end. I said, I think the- All scriptures God breathe, you know. Well, true.

But, you know, what scripture was he talking about? Right. The Old Testament, you know what I mean? I'm just being technical about it. No, I agree. Yeah, yeah. But even the stuff, because we've talked about before, there are things in the Bible that are not true because they were spoken by people who were not speaking truth and it's in the Bible. Well, right.

But I told me, I was like, that's a more complicated thing to answer. I was like, I don't think I like the question because it was kind of making fun of people who are highlighting the red letters. Because at the end of the day, the Bible is true from one end to the other, as true as in, this is God's word. and you should read it all. But it is about a person. There is a person behind it. I think the problem is this. And I actually,

there's one guy that's called me out in the comments. He does all the time. It's not being truthful when he does it. But he says it, I said, don't read the red letters. Which I never said that. I never said that. But what I did say,

and I'll clarify it again on this episode, because you brought it up, the red letters are, Jesus didn't write those letters. that. That's what's so funny about this. Jesus did not write the red letters. Those are written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. They're telling us what Jesus said. They're telling us what God said. But Paul's telling us what God said as well. And Corinthian letters and the book of Romans and Ephesians. And so I think the problem is when people elevate the red

letters and say these are like more authoritative than the black letters. Well, we're the ones that came up with the color scheme. The entire Bible. is inspired by the Holy Spirit. It's all of God's Word. And so all of it is. The red letters are God's Word. The black letter, it's all God's Word. It's all His Word.

And you can't elevate one over the other. And when people do that, I have heard people say things like, I'm not going to interpret Paul. I'm going to interpret Paul to the prism of Jesus, not Jesus through the prism of Paul. And what they mean is, there are certain issues where they want to say Paul had a cultural bias, for example. Well, no, he didn't.

I mean, if he had a cultural bias, here's the thing. What he wrote is inspired by the Holy Spirit. The scripture is without error. The scripture is God's final and authoritative word. This is where we go for truth. This is it. This is God's revelation to us.

And so that's the point that I think they probably may have been make adjacent. I would agree with that. You don't want to edit one or the other. I think I disagree with just the way that they're looking at it. And, you know, when you read something like Hebrews 1, when it says in the past, God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he

made the universe. So you read a verse like that, he's spoken to us through his son. What, what, what does that mean you're like well that's a bible verse that you're reading true so my my point is at the end of the day this is about a person who is a relational being who demonstrated his love even though the person became flesh and spoke words his point was i get this people who are saying highlighting the red letter that's why they highlighted them because they're like all roads are leading to a person that i think that's their only point i cut them some slack for oh it's nothing wrong with highlight it's nothing about highlight for saying that letters i yeah because if you if you if you just look at the bible as something to try to learn

every sentence and and get into complete unity on actually what it says in every place, well, you're never going to be able to pull that off. That's why when you, the prayer in John 17, he's like, I want them to have the perfect unity of the love that we had from the beginning.

He always brings it back to something personal. So, you know, I don't know if I articulated that. Yeah, I mean, my point is, though,

that what Paul wrote is also scripture. And, you know, we know that. One reason why we know that is because Peter, said that in 2 peter chapter 3 when he says talks about paul's writings and he says they're super complicated you know a lot of people i misunderstand them and it says uh encounter the patience of our lord and count the patience of our lord as salvation just as our beloved brother paul also wrote to you

according to the words given to him as he does in all of his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand. So Paul's, he writes, he's complicated, which are the, which the ignorant and unstable twist their own destruction as they do other scriptures. So Peter's saying that what Paul wrote was actually scripture. And so I think that we can read, that we can have an assurance that what we have in our canon is actual scripture. It is God-breed. It is His Word. It is His revelation.

And whatever Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John record as the words of Jesus are just as binding and not less binding or more binding than what Paul, Peter, James, the Hebrew writer, John, the Revelator when he wrote the book of Revelation, it's all God's words. It's all God-breathed. And I think, I think Jason's right, too, as long as you always know, this is going to point back to who Jesus is. Because you think about it, I mean, Paul wrote most of the New Testament. And yet he was the biggest enemy of the church in the first century. I mean, those first few years, you're talking about a life change. But what changed? Well, he met Jesus.

You know, I mean, that changed everything. So everything he thought he was doing for God, he was wrong. Great point. He literally, that is. my point. He's like, had it all justified, had it, knew the law backwards, forwards, upwards, upwards, justified, then all of a sudden it was like, hey, what are you doing? Why are you personally? Oh, yeah, why are you? Who are you, Lord? Well, you know, because look, you get my point, a lot of these people who get off into all these doctrinal issues and miss Jesus.

Yeah. They miss it. Yeah. And you're like, what's wrong with that? You know, what's wrong with that? You're wrong with this place that it doesn't seem to have any joy or there's no love well i think yeah there's they i think the slander that comes out of people like that the the um just backbiting just always trying to it's a gotcha game lack of grace all that you don't really smell they don't smell like jesus a lot of times i'm not saying no christians i'm just saying they don't smell like jesus and i think that um we all had that propensity you know to do that but i again that passage where Jesus says that you study the scriptures diligently and by them you think you're saying, but you miss me the one they point to.

All scripture is God-Bread, but all scripture ultimately does. You're right, James. It points to the person to Jesus. And that's why when you go back and read Jesus' writings, or not his writings, Jesus's words as recorded by the Gospels, he's always pointing back to these Old Testament scriptures that point to himself, always. and then you go back with the revelation of Christ, and you go back and read the Old Testament,

and you're like, oh, my goodness, how, I mean, this is amazing. The whole thing was pointing to him the entire time, and now the whole thing makes sense. Well, and that's why it's important to always. Remember Jason, we were in school, one of our instructors said, be careful in your exegesis that you don't exit Jesus. And there's a lot of truth to that. Well, I was saying about one of the examples that I use is Job, because most of the book of Job is speeches by men who God said at the end didn't know what they were talking about.

Exactly. Yeah, don't believe anything those guys said. Well, that was most of the book of Job. But you have to have the contract to understand from Job's perspective of what God was doing in his life. You have to have the human perspective of his friends because they're not God. And so that's why those things are in the Bible. It shows contrast many, many times, you know, where you can really see who God is. Well, I think it's a good discussion, because I think on the last podcast we left off talking about kind of how people view Israel's role in modern day Christianity.

And I would venture that most people think that something's going to happen in Israel one day with the end of time. times and Zach probably knows more about that than I do but you know that's where we left off and I'm I'm like reading all these predictions especially in the in the book of Isaiah I think we left off on Isaiah what was it 49 yeah I read that at the end of the podcast yeah but and I was fixed to read the ones in Psalms you know Psalm 22 27 and remember that's the Psalm we read before when the first verse of Psalm 22 is the quote that Jesus used when it said, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Yeah. But later on in verse 27, let me read this.

All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the Lord, and all the families of the nations will bow down before him, for dominion belongs to the Lord, and he rules over the nation's. all the rich of the earth will feast and worship all who go down to the dust will kneel before him those who cannot keep themselves alive that pretty much sun sums up everybody and then it says the last verse in 31 they will proclaim his righteousness to a people yet unborn for he has done it so my point is and look that's just one uh psalm 67 seven seven uh Psalm 98, all the ends of the earth. That keeps coming up. What you had brought that up from Acts 1,8,

obviously that's when this is, all those Old Testament prophecies were pointing to this moment that we're at here in our text. Well, even just think of Ephesians 1 where it kind of goes through the scheme of redemption, and it has that verse that we reference about bringing everything under heaven and earth under one head. Well, then chapter 2, what does he do?

he basically spends the whole chapter talking about the dismantling the wall that's dividing Jews and Gentiles. He tore that wall down. We're all one in Christ. We rise together. Think of the Galatians 3. I mean, all the problems on our planet now, Jesus pretty well accomplished because all the things that divide us, he put it on a cross. And when he came out of that grave, offering his spirit without limit to anyone who would surrender to him, he brings all people together. There's no Jew.

There's no Gentile. There's no slave free. There's no, all those passages. First Corinthians 12 says the same thing. And that's why you get to the all nations. He's like going to the ends of the world, the ends of the earth, which nobody really has a good definition. That's why we looked it up. Why are we sharing Jesus to that, to the ends of the world?

Why are we doing that? Yeah. The last of the globe. Yeah. And it's interesting, Jay, because all those prophetic things from Psalm 22, we didn't bring this up. We read those before. But then you get to the 23rd Psalm, which is probably the most famous Psalm ever. And it points to the Great Shepherd.

I mean, the whole thing is embodied in what we know, who we know, is the great shepherd of Jesus, which he refers to himself in John 10. So, I mean, it's just these beautiful pictures are painted of the global idea. Yeah, and even in Psalm 23, you remember when he said in John 18, shall I not drink the cup? Yeah. The father is given to me. Well, think about that Psalm 23.

I thought about this because of the enemies. When he gets, what is it, verse 5, you prepare a table before me. It's right after he says, the Lord is my shepherdess. I shall not be in want. He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside the quiet waters. Where's the valley of death? Verse four, even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,

well, that's how we started off this chapter. He's going through the valley of death, the Kid Ron Valley. Exactly. And he says, I will fear no evil for you are with me. And you're right instead of they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the present. of my enemies. You anoint my head with oil. My cup overflow. Surely goodness and love will follow me all the days of my life. And I will dwell, which is the same phrase that if this tent is

destroyed, I know I have a building, a dwelling from God, not built by human hands. I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever. What's just crazy, you go back, that's what I'm saying, you go back and read the Old Testament in the light of Jesus and you go back and read something like Isaiah 55, sorry, he says this, behold, I made him a witness to the peoples, a leader and commander of the peoples, behold, you shall call a nation that you do not know. Well, who's that? That's the Gentiles. And a nation that did not know you shall run to you. Why? Well, because of the Lord, your God, and the Holy One of Israel, for he has glorified you. Seek the Lord while he may be found.

Call upon him while he is near. I mean, you read that. Isaiah 55 is another just great text of like, oh, that's what he's talking about. In Jesus, he's going to draw the nations to himself. And the nation that wasn't his nation is going to actually run to him. And it says here, there's going to be like an abundant pardon. And it says later on in the text that he will abundantly pardon. God will have compassion on them.

It's incredible to see the compassion of our Lord and that we are invited in to participate in this kingdom. Well, I think, and I think what it shows you is the bigness and the vastness of the kingdom. And that's what we always have to go back to. In politics, we're playing a big role in this part of the text we're in. But the one thing we realize out of everything that happens to Jesus is that he's great. greater than politics. And you have to say that, you know, 2,000 years later, as much as it was the case 2,000 years ago in his context. I mean, Jay, you talk about he came before kings. He came before pilot, the governor. He came before the religious leaders. And all of them lacked that,

you know, the idea that he was really the true king. And they thought they were doing away with a movement. Instead, it was just about to kick off. I mean, that's what so great. Well, and who won? Well, Jesus is still alive. He got his body back. All those men are under the earth. I mean, that's what the kingdom looks like. I think that's the problem people have. They're like, what does the kingdom look like?

It looks like a bunch of spirit-filled people in every corner of the globe. They're not in a structure man-made. and they're saying our king is in heaven itself right now alive with a new body he's not imaginary and he's not way off it's just it's just a veil that you can't yeah he's real and we're serving the king and if we're killed no big deal because we'll have a new body this one will be exchanged for a new one. And evidently it's a lot better model because it's been 2,000 years since he got his new body

and he seems to be doing well. Well, we're out of time. It all started with what's a mascot and that's where we wound up. Y'all can't blame me for this rabbit hole. Y'all are the ones that took that down a rabbit hole. I was just saying, how can I help me help a three-year-old kid understand.

I'm not sure we did it, but it was an interesting discussion. So we'll get back to John 18, maybe next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.