Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1198 | Jase Crashes a Robertson Family Reunion He Wasn’t Invited to & How to Face Death with Peace

Episode Date: October 30, 2025

Jase walks into “Robertson reunion” that unfolds right at the airport gate—complete with photo ops and a crowd asking for Si. A white-knuckle flight with Martin leads Jase to discover a fate that he thinks is worse than dying, but when Al recalls how Phil and Miss Kay handled their own air scare moments with humor and calm confidence in the Resurrection. The guys explore how real power is found not in control or conquest but in sacrificial love.  In this episode: John 18, verses 33–37; Daniel 2, verse 44; Daniel 7, verses 13–14; Philippians 2, verses 5–11; Mark 9, verse 1; Acts 2, verse 36; Revelation 1, verse 5; Romans 2, verses 1–16; 1 Timothy 6, verses 12–16; Hebrews 12, verses 25–29; 1 Samuel 8, verses 1–22 Chapters: 00:00-06:18 A surprise Robertson family reunion 06:19-12:51 Phil’s reaction to near-death experiences 12:52-15:06 Jase finds something worse than dying 15:07-26:45 The meaning of “every knee will bow” 26:46-35:12 Picturing Peter at the pearly gates 35:13-44:58 WHO is Truth? 44:59-55:57 A king with an invisible kingdom — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to the Unashamed podcast. We got Reed in the house. He's actually in Zach's studio. I recognized that couch, Reed. I was just there a couple of weeks ago. Pretty a pretty little sweet little set up there to read. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I like it. A little cigar lounge. Well, we had to get together with the family because apparently I don't think any of us, and I say us, I mean, me, Reed and out. I don't know if you know there was a Robertson family reunion that we didn't get invited to. I had no clue. There was.

If y'all let me finish my story last podcast, I was getting there. Jace can't get a word in edgewise. I was in Indiana with this, I think it was called Fellowship Missions, and they're just doing Jesus stuff in Indiana. So on the way back, you know, my wife saw Levy-Dubby because we fixed that problem of doing events together. And you highlighted your relationship with their own stage. We talked about that in the last podcast. That was a grand gesture, Jay. Yeah.

And so everybody's happy, you know. But when you fly a commercial, it just takes a long time these days. And so the next day, it's probably 4 o'clock by the time we get to it. Atlanta. And we go down and usually they have the Monroe. Oh, what is the word for that? Monroe Gate. They have the Monroe Gate.

Usually it's very small and the last place you would look. And so we get down there and try to find a seat. And it was difficult because the Louisville women's soccer team was sitting at the Monroe Gate, which I thought they were like playing U.S. L.M. or something, but they were actually, there was so many of them, they were staying at that gate because their gate was next to it. And so I'm out, you know, hiding out with the soccer players, Missy and I, and then all of a sudden I look up and I'm like, that looks like Corey. And surely that's not Willie. And because I thought Willie was a skinnier version than he is

currently, but I guess he's gained that weight back. He's in bulk season right now, I don't believe. So I had to do a double take, you know, well, then I looked, and I was like, well, there's, there's Jeff and Jessica. And look, they just kept coming. I mean, it was probably 20 members of my family. They're married in and all Willie's, oh, yeah. And so then.

Because they had all been in New York promoting the show, right? Well, there was three different entities going. on here. Jeff and Jessica and their little crew were actually a guest starring in a cameo appearance of a Christmas movie in Buffalo, New York.

So they were technically not supposed to, you know, randomly meet Willie and them in the Atlanta airport, but that had already happened. And then they look over and see me and they're like, what in the world is going on? So then, after we took a picture with the

soccer team, Cassidy was there and all these young women were fans of Sadie. When they cleaned out, we just took over the whole gate. It felt like we were at some weird show where we had a booth, a Duck Dynasty booth. Because now there was so many of us, we were stopping traffic. I mean, people were coming in, taking pictures. It was just like it was a show. And then our plane got delayed for a couple hours. Of course. But it was so much fun that because there was so many of us, it literally was a reunion. And it was all random. It was a random occurrence that we all wound up in that spot. And even though all you guys were there and taking pictures or whatever, the first question

everybody asked when they got up was where sigh? Exactly. Well, I got that question 150 times. And I said he's probably, and I just thought I'd throw that in there to help your ego. Well, I actually contributed to the vibe because every time they asked me that, I said he's probably in a bathroom somewhere. And so they take off. But I just said somewhere. You didn't say at the airport. But if you think about it, I think that's funny. I saw Missy's post that said the family reunion at C-34, which I knew what the C-204, I think is the gate.

Because every time I find the Munner, it's at the same gate. And I knew what that meant. That was funny. It was really incredible, and we all caught up. And then, look, then it all hit us right before we got on the plane. And nobody was wanting to say it, but everybody was thinking it because it came out later. I think I was the first person to say it. I just, because I knew everybody was thinking it because just the vibe kind of started going down as we're getting on the plane.

And I was like, I get it. I know the headline if this plane crashes. Doug Dynasty is officially dead. That's a dead duck. The question is who's the headliner? Because Willie used to always say, we'd get on a little plane together, and he would say, he did tell everybody on the plane and said,

now y'all know if we go down, it's going to be Willie Roberts of Duck Dynasty and six others. So just realize you're the six others. You're in the six others. Yeah. I've heard that many times. And there was a little foreshadowing when the plane there, hit the duck on the way.

Yeah. I mean, on the other day. And all came back together. Young Maddie, when I came in, she actually, you know, she was pumping me up for the podcast,

our producer, and she's like, I've got to tell you, your stories are starting to sound a lot like size. Oh. And I didn't know whether to thank her or we needed a meeting or something.

But, yeah, that's what happened. It all started off. We hit a duck. And last thing that happened was It was a family reunion, and we all rode over again. Hey, it's all fun in games until the plane really does start to waver, because I will never forget that in my entire life,

seeing the men that I grew up with just towering over me, looked up to them, just rock solid. And it was me, dad, Willie, and Martin. And we were flying into somewhere in, like, Canada or Alaska or something. And I mean, it was really bad. And I remember I think, I just thought for a second, I thought, ooh, this is not, this is not good. And I look over and Willie is, has his arms crossing his head down in his chest and he's rocking back and forth, whimpering. And I looked over at Dad, Dad's hands are shaking and Martin is just in console while I was like, oh, this is real.

It's good tonight. I think that was. Phil's got ice water. It feels got ice water in his veins. He's got a nice tea in a mason jar and he's just shaking a bag of a plane. I was on a play with Phil one time, and the seal broke around the door, which created this huge, like, the sound of the shotgun going off. And then there was a sucking sound.

And I mean, I've never been more fearful in my life. And Phil, I mean, did not miss a beat. And he said, all right, boys, it's resurrection time. Y'all get ready. This is what we live. It's what we live on. I saw people say, I asked me how we're doing. filled, you know, dying and since his death.

And I was like, let me tell you something. If anybody was not afraid of death because they believed in the resurrection, it would be filled. He lived that verse. And this is eternal life that they know you. He's like, hey, it ain't going to change much. I'm going to close my eyes and I'm going to open them again. Well, that's why everywhere we go, and Jace, I'm sure this is happening with you too, you know, people will offer their condolences.

And they do that out of respect for dad. So I appreciate every one of you that do that because that means you loved him and you appreciated him just like we did. But I always tell him and say, look, man, I so appreciate that. But you got to realize from our perspective, he lived his life for that moment. He crossed over. And now he's just waiting for the rest of us to get there. And but he wants us to bring as many as possible with us.

So like since his, since he crossed over, our mindset is we're just going wide open to because we only got a certain amount of time left and we're going to be crossing over as well. So from our perspective, we're not holding back. We're not like, you know, we don't grieve like the rest of men who have no hope. We're in wide open, full of throttle mode, which is why you're seeing three different groups of us at the airport at the same time. That means we are traveling across the fruited plains with the message of Jesus. Speaking of family, let me mention our good friends at Family Research Council. They've been friends of ours for a long time.

They stood up for dad back when the culture tried to cancel them and pray vote stand. That's what they teach people to do. I love it. They're in D.C. They work on Capitol Hill on our behalf. And we want you to check these guys out. We stand with them. You can give today at FRC.org slash unashamed.

Check them out. I was going to say, you know what Papawfield does every time somebody says, oh, I'm so sorry for your loss. He's going to be greatly missed. And he's, he as a cloud, as a part of the cloud of witnesses, look, over us. He looks down and he goes, that's a good one, he said it before he went on. He said, don't cry for me. You can sing, you can dance, whatever

you do. Although we did cry. I'll tell you another person is his brother, Cy, he seems to have no fear. You know, their windshield busted in flight. And he's like, hey, he was hollered and, you know, at the pilot, you need to fix this one day, you know, and they're like, no, you're, you're fine he's like they can't hear my stories over this sound they wasn't worried about dying he was like well how am i going to tell stories all the way there when we're just so and you know what the pilot

told philip philip told me later he said that he said he told him you know that what had happened he said we're turning around to go back and philip went up there and says there anything i could do and that pilot said yeah i have me my glasses in case this internal windshield goes I'll need to be able to see to get us on the ground. And I thought, you know, when a pilot tells you that, then it just got really serious. Because the outer, there's like two layers of glass, and the outer one was gone.

And if that inner one would have gone, which he said it very well could have, then he's just flying with open air as he's flying into land. Well, we're kidding about all this. But look, once I experienced an emergency landing, I realized my faith was okay. because I thought, well, here we go. I mean, you got to get to that point

for you kind of see where you're at, you know, with meeting the Lord. The only time I was really fearful, though, is, and I was with Martin, and I forgot who else, but we were going into West Virginia, and we were on one of these little fast jets, and when we went in to land, the plane went upside down.

I went from the seated position, to that seatbelt hanging me and then we immediately went back up and we abandoned the landing. And you say, well, what was your fear? My fear was when I looked at Martin, he literally turned green. And I thought, if a man his size starts vomiting,

because I could tell, it just made him sick. I was like, there's nowhere. It always goes back to food. There's nowhere to get. What does man eat? There's nowhere to get. go here. There's no word

high because he just, he looked so combustible in that moment. He looked combustible? He looked combustible? And I thought, you know, I mean, it could be worse than dying. And that's having a man his size.

That's one of the worst in Charleston, West Virginia is one of the most difficult landing airports in America, Jay's. Because we were coming in there. I was with all the wives. They were doing the, we were going to New York. on a King Air, which was quite the trip, because that's really too long for that size plane.

So we had to stop and refuel in Charleston, and we had the same thing, not quite upside down, but I'd say about halfway, so much so that when I was watching the wing, I mean, it came within feet of hitting the runway, and then he corrected it back. And, oh, man, the women started crying. Jessica was crying.

Mom started singing near my God to thee. I mean, it was funny. And then it was like, so the pilots start coming back. And we're all looking up. People are crying. We're looking like Bill Wooder. And he was like, okay, we got a few minutes here. If he needs to go to the bathroom.

Like, no big deal. Like, you know, we just. And I was like, are we not going to talk about what just happened? Oh, that's funny. I was going to, yeah, I wouldn't get back because I had the last podcast, I was going to say we ended. And I had one more comment about what Jason said about he pointed out that verse that my kingdom's not of this world. And one of the points I may was that, yeah, then you ask what we thought. And I said, well, he didn't say that my kingdom's not in this world.

And it's kind of the point, I think, of the text. But I was in Daniel 2 earlier in that last podcast. And I just, I read this verse last time, but I left this little part off in terms of the emphasis. and I wanted to read it. When he says the stone, the one that came out of the, remember this is where they had the dream of the statue with the four parts and the last part represents the Roman Empire. And then a stone that was cut out, not made of human hands, it rolled and hit the bottom of that statue and crushed it.

What he says here, the stone that struck the image, it says it became a great mountain. And this is the part I want to hone in on. and it filled the whole earth. And that's the interesting thing about when Jesus is here in this interaction with pilot, and he says, his kingdom is not of the world. He's not saying that the kingdom is not in the world. In fact, he said the complete opposite.

And I think that if you look at that prophecy in Daniel, the picture of when the kingdom comes into the world, over time, eventually it will encompass the entire world. The entire earth will be the temple of God. And I just thought that was super interesting. It's not a devaluation of the earthly world. It's actually what Christ is doing is he's like elevating its importance. Yeah.

Which is a good point, Zat, because a lot of people have misinterpreted that. And so they don't see the kingdom as being here. and they missed that idea because they said, well, Jesus said, my kingdom's not of this world. He says, no, he says, it's not from here. It's not of this world, but it encompasses this world and every other world that's in the universe.

Because Alex, would you make sense to the fact that he says in Daniel too, which he's clearly talking about the kingdom, because he says it later, in those days, a kingdom's going to be set up. How in the world, if it's not in the world, then how is it going to cover and expand over the entire earth,

which is another word for, world. I mean, how is that possible? Right. I've got a, I got a question, and I don't want to dive into, you know, eschatology too hard here, but when when Jesus says every knee will bow is, I mean, are we talking about any, and, you know, in the, in the near or distant future, you know, we don't know the hour, but are we talking about an event where eventually unbelievers will bow when they realize before judgment and or are we talking about what you're talking about, Zach, where the kingdom will just expand across earth and across this world and eventually reach the point where the entire earth are believers. That's, you know, the entire population that is currently living

will be believers and will bow to Jesus. I think, I think that that's Philippians too. Yeah. What are you going to say, Jace? Well, I was going to say, I'm glad you brought this up, read, because that's where I was headed with this, is there's, you know, when you think about what kingdom is Jesus talking about? Because isn't God king overall, has he not always been? And I'm going to prove that in the Old Testament. I have several verses I want to read. Even in your passage that you were reading, Zach and Daniel too, I want to read you something that probably most people have not noticed before he got into the four kingdoms that would come, you know, and eventually be Rome.

Let me say this real quick before you make this explanation, so I can further emphasize my question. I've always pictured, reading that verse, I've always pictured, okay, there's an unbeliever, the unbeliever dies, and they, when they, when they, they, before they receive their judgment from the creator, everyone will realize, oh, no, I was wrong, and they will bow. And I always read it like that, but am I wrong? Well, I don't, I think what some people take what you're saying so far, and they call it

universalism, where he's like going to save, you know, everybody in the end. But there's too many other passages that says there'll be a resurrection of, the wicked and the righteous. We read that earlier. John 5. And you will receive, you know, think of the Romans one. You know, some will be raised immortality. Some will be raised, whatever the phrase is.

He uses, where's that at? Romans. Yeah, in Romans 2, you remember that scene where it says in verse 5. Because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath when his righteous judgment will be. reveal. God will give to each person according to what he's done, which is from Psalm 62, 12. To those who by persistent and doing good seek glory, honor, immortality, he will give eternal

life. But for those who are self-seeking and reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. He got to remember, he's already set up the fact in Romans like one. I'm not ashamed of the gospel because it's the salvation for everyone who believes first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. So it's not like he's just, it's a performance-based if you just read Romans 2. He's basically drawn in the line of those who have given their life to Jesus. But to your point, read, I do believe every knee will bow. Every knee is bowing. Well, what else do you have to do?

There's a God and you're not him. And when he comes back, oh, you're bowing. So, I mean, I think that. I think the short answer, read to your question, in my opinion, is yes. And it's both and. It's not either or. There is a realization. At the moment this life is over, there's a realization.

And in a sense, I like the way you put that. In a sense, that's where the first, at least in the consciousness, there's the bowing of the knee. But there will be a time in the final resurrection where it happens as well. And there is an end. there is a return, there is an end. So it's kind of, we talk about Zach's Pock as not yet now. It's both and. It's the idea that it's existing.

We're a part of the process, but time as we know it has not ended. But it will have an ending point and there will be a final judgment. I've hung out in this passage quite a bit. It really fits nicely into how I understand God, how God rebuilds himself. And I would say this passage, is more about vindication than redemption. Which passage are you telling them? Philippians 2, where he says that every,

because if you read the language in it, he says that God's exalted him to the highest place and bestowed on him the name that it is above every name. So at the name of Jesus, every knee should bow in heaven. So now who is that? On earth and under the earth. So you're encompassing, I think the entire created order. I don't think it.

What else is there? Yeah, I mean, what's this is so interesting about this verse, I've always said that this, the phrase that I've used, and I don't know if I came up with this or not, I'm going to claim it unless someone else can claim it before me. But I call this the threshold of God's revealed glory that God has hidden himself. And I don't think that we'll ever exhaust the full glory of God.

We won't because we can't. If we could exhaust his glory, then he's, exhaustible and he's not God. The fact that he's God is that his glory is inexhaustible. We will never get to the end of it. But there is a threshold of revelation to which

you can see God and you are not going to have the ability to deny him. That he's sovereign and that he's king and that he's Lord. Right now we can because God has hidden himself in such a way that, yeah, you can choose whether you want to or not.

But one of the things about salvation in the term glorification at the end, it means to be freed from the presence of sin. Well, how is it even possible to be free from the presence of sin? It's only possible if you understand that sin is just believing in a lie. And so the reason will be freed

from the presence of sin after the second coming of Christ is because his glory is going to be revealed in such a way that it will be impossible to believe in a lie. So back to John 18, when Pilate says, who is truth?

You won't ask that question. question. You'll see truth. You will see the glory. You will see the king of kings. You will see his power. You will see his domain. You will see his goodness. It'll all be there and it will be impossible to believe a lie so that even Satan himself is going to bow down at the second coming. He's going to say, okay, your Lord. Everyone's going to confess him as Lord. It will be fully real, not fully realized. We will surpass that threshold where you'll have no other option. It will be what some people call irresistible at that point. Right now, I think it's resistible. At the second coming, when God opens that gate up and you see a certain threshold, ain't nobody going to be able to

stand. And I think it's interesting, too, later, I'm just reading down through chapter two of Philippians, when Paul says, you know, among you whom shone as lights in the world, holding fast to the word of life, so that in the day of Christ, I may be proud that I did not run in vain or labor in vain. He says, even if I am to be poured out as a drink offering upon the sacrificial offering of your faith, I'm glad and rejoice with you all. Likewise, you should also be glad and rejoice with me. That is pretty powerful where, I mean, it's kind of what we're talking about here where it's like, you know, there's basically only two options you got here. You can either be like, like I said, oh no, and bow with all the other knees that are like, boy, we messed up here. Please have mercy on us. Or you can either. You can either be like, like, like, I said, oh, no. And bow with all the other knees that are like, we messed up here. Please have mercy on us. Or you can. can stand tall and be proud as you bow, you know, and bend your knee of, hey, I'm, I'm rejoicing at your coming. But you're going to bow one way or the other. You're going to bow one way or the other.

So what do you, I was going to say one more thing. Reed mentioned in the last podcast about, you all remember whenever he told Peter get behind me, Satan. Do you remember what the reason why he told him that, what Peter said, what Peter was pushing back against when Jesus was basically. He wasn't have to die. Yeah, because that was the thing. He was saying I'm going to be handed over to the rulers.

He's basically the, where we're at John 18, Jesus is basically saying, this is going to happen. Go read John 18. Yeah, that's going to happen. That's what he's basically saying, John 18 and 19. And Peter's like, no, it'll never be so. That's not going to happen. And he said, get by.

That was Jesus's point because he said, when he told Polit, I think we haven't touched on this. But that is the point, what you just said, because he said, if my kingdom was of this world, well, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest. That's his point. That's the point. But now my kingdom is from another place.

Now, I think Pollyt probably then thought, okay, he's got mental illness. Because what are you talking about? Yeah, the threat level just went down, right, Jay? because he's like, you know, this guy, if he's not got an army, then I'm not really worried about it. Exactly. Oh, you're not going to fight, but you have a kingdom from another place.

Oh, so you've got a bunch of warriors somewhere else. That's not going to do you any good here. Yeah. So I think that's why then it got into, he's like, oh, so you're a king then. That's the tone. Yeah. Mr. Mental Illness has got some other place. He's got a bunch of warriors.

Of course, he was missing the. point because how would you really get the point? Because look, people in modern day don't get this point. And I think the reason it's confusing is because of what Regist asked. The kingdom is actually bigger than the church, which you're like, what? Because most people, when he said the kingdom is near, the kingdom is near, and then we'll go through this rabbit hole of the gospels where it's like, remember when Jesus said, I think that's Luke 17, 20 and 21, he's like, you can't look at the kingdom and say here it is or there it is because they were like when will the kingdom come and he has this interesting quote because he says the kingdom is

among you it's among people and even the verse that you just read where uh jesus accused peter of having the spirit of satan he said i'll give you peter i'm going to build my church and the gates of Hades will not withstand it. And I'll give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Well, you don't think people have missed it in modern day? Who do they have in their eschatology, as you said, Reed, in heaven with the keys of heaven? Yeah, waiting to interview.

They got Peter up here with some keys, and there's a gate, you know, and he's letting people in. And so you get to the pearly gates. Every joke starts with Peter at the point of gates. Oh, every joke. I've had people like, I'm sorry about your dad, you know. I'm sure Peter welcomed him in. And I'm like, Peter welcomed amen about 2,000 years ago

when he got up and shared Jesus and said, look, if you'll surrender, if you'll bow the knee now, his spirit will move inside of you and you will be part of the kingdom of heaven on earth, just like Jesus prayed. Dad went through the gate at 29 years. old. That's when he went through the gate. Yeah. Now, the reason

this gets tricky is because of Mark 9-1, and I feel like we have to bring this up at this point, because for everybody who's listening to my voice right now saying, oh, no, Peter is up in heaven with the keys. Mark 9-1, there's a profound statement that I've never

heard anyone be able to get around who are saying the kingdom has not yet been established on earth through Jesus, King Jesus. Because really, what does kingdom mean? It means where the king rules. Well, he's ruling in my heart right now because I surrendered to him and he gave me a spirit.

I'm a part of the kingdom of heaven on earth. But Martin I'm one, same kind of, and I'm just doing this from memory, but when he says, some of you standing here, I think that's what Martin 911 says. I tell you the truth. I say the truth.

Yeah. some of some who are standing here. Now he's talking to his disciples, and you can scroll back to Mark 831, and he's predicting his death. This is actually where Jesus, where Peter said, get behind me, this is where that's, this is Mark's version of what you in.

Same as Matthew 16. Right. He says, some of you who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power. He didn't say after you die, he said, you're not going to taste it.

You're not going to die until you see the kingdom of God come with power. So what would you interpret that to mean? That that was going to happen in their lifetime? It's got to happen in their lifetime. It's got to happen before they die. And if Peter has the keys to it, it seemed like to me he unlocked that gate in about Acts chapter 2 after the spirit was poured out.

Which is funny. He did not, Peter did, see, this is what's funny about that. In Mark's account is really good at this too, because you have, in Mark's account of this, you have the feeding of the 5,000 Jewish people, then Jesus goes and feeds 4,000 Gentiles, and then the disciples get in the boat, and they got one loaf of bread, and they're all worried about, man, where are we going to get bread from? Right? It's like, read the room, boys.

I just fed 9,000 people. What are you talking about? Where are we going to get the bread from? Do you not understand? Then there's a story about Jesus healing a blind man. And when he heals the blind man, it's a partial healing. It's really weird. He touches the guy and puts spit on his eyes and the guy like opens his eyes.

And what do you see? I see people, but they look like trees. Okay, let me touch you again. And then he's fully restored. His sights fully restored. Well, that's what's happening. Peter, right? Because then he says to Peter, well, who do people say I am? You're the prophet. You're Elijah. Well, who do you say him? You're the Christ? Correct. Now you see. But with Peter's confession

in Mark A that Jesus is the Christ, when he confesses that, it's like he's saying, I see you, but you look like a tree. And then God's, and then over the rest of Peter's life, well, really, the rest of Jesus's life, because we know he's going to deny Jesus three times, which is what we just got that Mark, John, or John study. But at some point, Peter's going to get it, and then he's going to be like, oh, my sight is restored, and he is going to bring the, he has the keys to the kingdom, he's going to unlock it. So you see it in, right here in this text in Mark as well.

But Zach, he also, he, Peter is the one who not just open the kingdom gates, as Jesus said in Acts 2. But then you get to Acts 10, and he also opens the same gate. for the Gentiles, which I think is the crux of this whole conversation with Pilot is, like I said, it's the fulfillment of Jesus' prayer in John 17. Because when you look at the way Pilate asked the question, it's just how people do today, people who are curious. He says, are you the king of the Jews?

That's pure curiosity. Because he's just like, all right, who are you? Then he's sarcastic. Am I a Jew? And that's exactly how people respond, right? When they don't understand, they get sarcastic. Then he says, here's his official inquiry. What have you, what is it you have done?

And isn't that what people want to know? What is this Jesus thing? What is he done? How does that impact me? And then the last one is the philosophical wonder of it. Well, what is truth? Because truth is the only way I've seen how I operate. That's how most people live their lives.

So if that's not a picture of Gentile thinking, I don't know what is. I mean, it just shows exactly the way people approach Jesus, even to this very day. I got a question for Jace. Because you said earlier, you said, what kind of kingdom is this? And here's my question.

If you're reading, if that's your question, because he is telling us what it's not. He's saying it's not, I call my servants and they conquer you. What is it based on this? What do you think it is? Well, I was going to answer it to Al's question,

so I'll kill two birds of one stone. The problem with Pallet's next question and what is truth, that shows you where he didn't get it, because he should have said who is truth. And that's where everybody misses it. It's like, let's try to figure this out. And so my answer to you, Zach, is Jesus is the king of kings. Those who surrender to him are under his rule,

and they become his representative. His princes and princesses on earth representing, pointing people to the king. And then you have all this material like the sermon on the Mount. What was it all about? He starts off saying, the kingdom of God is like. Think of Matthew 18. The kingdom is like a little child. And he goes from there.

But that's what he was describing. And I think it's the new creation. of earth that is beginning that Jesus introduced. What'd you call it, Zach, the inaugural something? Yeah, the inaugurated eschatology. Eschatology. Or the inauguration of the kingdom. Yeah.

Well, I was gonna say that it shows the divine humility of Jesus because he could have said, he could have says, why, you know, when Pilate asked him this, you know, condescending question, what is truth? Well, he could have just said, I just told you, dummy. I mean, the verse right before everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice. But what it shows is the confidence of a king where he's saying in these sarcastic questions that Pilots asking him, he's saying it does not matter what you do.

This story does not hinge on whether you execute me or not. Do whatever you want to do. It doesn't matter. He's telling them the truth here. And then, you know, of course, what we're just saying, he doesn't get it. What is truth? Well, I mean, he could have said, I just told you.

There's so many, there's so many times like that in scripture where we as as, as fallible humans, we're like, what are you stupid? I just told you. You know, and he's like, well, hey, it doesn't matter. I told you the truth. But it's confident, the confidence of Christ in this is a supernatural confidence.

It's hard to understand. But I think it gets to the point of what kind of kingdom is this and the nature of the kingdom and the nature of power and the nature of what victory is going to look like in Christ. It's not going to look like, Peter, take your sword off and cut off the dude's ear. That's not the pathway, clearly, because Jesus said, that's not what we're doing here. You see it in both Mark 8 or whatever version of the rebuke of Peter. Peter did not get it.

Peter knew that Jesus was the Christ. What he didn't understand was that right after that Jesus said, well, I have to suffer. That's the part that Peter is like, no, that's not how this thing plays out. And so that when Christ rebuked him and said, get behind me, Satan, what he's doing is he's saying, you don't understand the nature of the Christ. You don't understand the nature of the kingdom. The kingdom is going to be one, not through conquering in the way that you think about conquering. It's going to be conquering through sacrificial love, which is the Philippians 2 passage.

That's the whole point of Philippians 2, that your attitude should be like that of Christ, Jesus, who being in very nature, God did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing. He takes on the nature of a servant, takes on the nature of humanity, humbles himself. God humbles himself, becomes obedient to death, even death on a cross. And so when you see that picture in Philippians 2, that's the picture that you get before. It says, therefore, God exalted into the highest place. Well, therefore what?

Because of the humiliation of Christ, because of the self-sacrificial love. And so as Christ is going into John 18, as he's going before Pilate and he's going to be sentenced to death and he's going to suffer this cruel death, that is the way that he is going to be vindicated. And then the resurrection will occur. And then Christ, the essential will occur. And Christ is now sitting at the right hand of the Father. Fully vindicated, right? He is vindicated. He reigns.

He is supreme. but it all happened through self-sacrificial love. So the crux of the whole gospel of John, pun intended, is this moment, the crucifixion, the crux, the crucifixion. That's the point. Power comes through sacrifice. Which fuels the passion and the reality

for the expansion of the kingdom. You know, because, I mean, we can sympathize with the apostles saying, dude, what are you doing? you don't have to die. I mean, the things I've seen you do, don't do this. Just say the word, you know? But that human connection is, is this fuel and passion that we have of like, no, he, he was flesh and suffered just like we do.

You know, we have our own sufferings on earth. Obviously, we don't suffer like that. But to me, that's just such gasoline for the fire of the expansion of the king. Well, where I was going with it, and we're never going to have time where I have to have a part three. Because what I made a statement that I want to clarify, because people were going to be wondering what I was talking about when I said the kingdom is bigger. Because you don't really realize that in this context until you get to chapter 19 in verse 10. Because then they continue this conversation. And Pilate says in verse 10 of chapter 19, do you?

you refuse to speak to me, Pilate said, and here's key question, don't you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you? And so Jesus's answer here is what I want to go through through the Old Testament. We'll have to do that next podcast because there's a lot of verses in the Old Testament where God is declaring his sovereignty and power over the kings of the earth and the rulers.

Just like even in the book of Revelation in Revelation 1-5, when Jesus, what is that, where he says he rules over the kings of the earth, well, look, that's not something new. God has set up this power structure on our planet.

it the whole time. And you're looking around saying, well, surely not. Oh, yeah. Can you imagine the world without that power structure? What would you have? Anarchy. You know what you'd have to? You'd have the picture from Genesis 6 where it got so violent and so bad, so fast

that you'd want to drown the whole planet. Exactly. So watch what Jesus says in verse 11. You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore, the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin. You know, the betrayal, the Jewish leaders trying to, you know, come up with this narrative because he was a threat to their, what they, how they viewed God.

And so I think you'll find it interesting. And what I wanted to do is when Zach read that Daniel two, I wanted to give you an illustration of that point. because in the earlier verses in Daniel 2, before he gets into these four kingdoms, listen to this in verse 36. Daniel, this was the dream, and now we will interpret it to the king.

We're talking about Nebuchadnezzar, but watch what he says. You O king are the king of kings. Does that sound familiar? It does. But he's talking about Nebuchadnezzar. And watch how he frames this. The God of heaven has given you,

you, dominion, power, might, and glory. In your hands he has placed mankind and all the beast of the field and the birds of the air, wherever they live. He has made you ruler over them all. And so then he describes what's fixing to happen in the future. He's like, after you, another kingdom will rise. In fear of yours, next to third kingdom. Verse 40, finally there will be a fourth kingdom.

as strong as iron. And we know just from history, if you go through here, that was eventually Rome. But in verse 44 of Daniel 2, it says, in the time of those kings, so now we're in the fourth kingdom, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. So then when you get to Daniel 7 in verse 14, he starts in 13 and 14, he starts introducing who the true king of kings will be when he says, in my vision and night I looked and there before me was one like a son of man.

Well, how did Jesus refer to himself more than any other phrase besides maybe I am? A son of man. There'll be one. Hey, hey, Jayce, how did he reference himself when he was telling Peter that he had to suffer? He said the son of man must suffer. Great point. When the son of man coming with the clouds of heaven, he approached the ancient of days, which is the father,

and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory, and sovereign power. All people's nations and men of every language worshipped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never, be destroyed. But it gives context to why he's saying, my kingdom is not of this world. It's from another place. But he's, you just have to say, you read in between the lines here, but Jesus is saying it's for the world. This is why I'm doing this.

Look at the evidence of that argument, because you just read about several kingdoms that came and one conquer the other kind of deal, but they all were like, It's just a repetition, like an endless conquering of conquering, and you're the guy for 250 years, been the year out, and other kingdoms shows up on the scene, and one after another. But think about the nature of the kingdom of God, since it was established in Acts or in the New Testament here,

like everything that you would think would shut it down. For example, when the fierce persecution broke out against the church in the book of Acts when they stoned Stephen, I mean, the church at that point wasn't that big. You're going to think if there's ever going to be a chance to stamp this thing out, now's the time. And it was the very act of the persecution of the church that actually sent the embers of the kingdom scattering all over the world. And like everything that we think is going to like shut it down. We're in trouble now.

It turns out, no, we're not. We're not in trouble. The kingdom still goes. What's the first thing that, that, what's the main goal when you try to topple a kingdom? We'll kill the king. Keld the king. He's got to be killed. They tried that.

They did it. No. They killed him. That's the problem. They did kill the king. And then he was resurrected. That's why the resurrection is so key here of where we're headed, because this is a kingdom that will not be left to another people.

It's the same kingdom that was established by Jesus for 2,000 years. It's all the people. We're just adding people. It's just, we just keep coming in, keep coming in. And it goes beyond that too. I mean, back in the verse we read in John 17, when he's, when he's praying and He says the glory, share the glory that we shared before the world existed. Yeah.

You know, it's not like, oh, yeah, here we go. Now there's a king. And yes, that does all happen and unfold so that we can realize that. But, I mean, he was king way before our concept of time existed. So I want to read you a passage that just it's so beautifully encapsulates everything I'll just said, including Jason, what you started with. And I know in the next podcast we're going to get into that Old Testament background. When we do, James, remember Hebrews 12, I want to throw that in. But listen to what Paul said to Timothy. And tell me if this doesn't sound like exactly the last five minutes of this podcast.

He tells Timothy, this is 1 Timothy 612. Fight the good fight of faith. Take hold of the eternal life in which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses. So this could apply to any of us. In the sight of God, who gives life to everything and of Christ Jesus, listen to this, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, which is exactly what we're talking about. I charge you to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ. He go read, which God will bring about in his own time. We're so worried about time.

He said, God's in control of time. God, the blessed and only ruler, the king of kings and the Lord of Lords, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light whom no one has seen or can see to him be honor and might forever. Amen. I mean, that's everything we just were talking about the last five minutes, all encapsulated in one charge to Timothy, who was, you know, Paul's protege. He said exactly what we're saying. Look, God's got this.

It's in his timing. There is now and then there is future. But just trust me, Timothy, it's the king of kings and the Lord of Lords. And that's who's in control. I want to give some homework because I know we're out of time. So read 1st Samuel 8 before we meet again because it's real interesting. The guy who introduced Israel's first kings was the only person in the nation that said, he got the big picture.

He's like, we don't need a king, we have a king. God is the king. And the people are like, oh, no, we need a king, we need a king, we need a king. Everybody else has a king. Yeah, it's an interesting read, but it shows you how God intervened and would bring through that idea to bring a king who would be king of kings, the son of man through the Davidic line. of kings. But read the whole chapter, first Samuel 8, and then we'll go all the way back

to the beginning up until where we are now. All right. You got your homework. Read, it's always a pleasure. You're always welcome on Unashamed. As is your wife. Thank you for the surprise today. That was awesome. So we'll see you next time on Unashame. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.