Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1204 | Christian & John Luke Get a Crash Course in Game Show Winning From their 84-Year-Old Granny

Episode Date: November 7, 2025

Christian Huff’s confusion at the name “Pat Sajak” proves daytime TV is officially a thing of the past, and Al and Zach take the opportunity to school the younger guys using the legendary story of Granny Robertson’s double Price Is Right showcase win. John Luke and Christian manage to finesse a free lunch out of the ever-frugal Zach by taking him at his word. The guys turn to Exodus 19, where God hands down the Ten Commandments, explore how covetousness sits at the heart of every other sin, and what it means that only Christ could fulfill the law written on stone. In this episode: Exodus 15, verses 1–21; Exodus 17, verses 1–16; Exodus 19, verses 1–25; Exodus 20, verses 1–17; Exodus 24, verses 4–8; Exodus 3, verses 1–6; 1 Corinthians 10, verses 1–6 and 13; Hebrews 12, verses 18–29; Galatians 4, verses 21–31; Ezekiel 47, verses 1–12; Revelation 22, verses 1–2; John 4, verses 10–14; John 14, verses 16–17; John 16, verses 7–15; Philippians 4, verses 11–13; Genesis 2, verses 9–17; Genesis 3, verses 1–7; Genesis 11, verses 1–9; Luke 15, verses 25–32 Today's conversation is about lessons 6 & 7 of The Exodus Story taught by Hillsdale Professor Justin Jackson. Take the course with us at no cost to you! Sign up at ⁠http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/⁠ More about The Exodus Story: Explore God’s mercy as he leads Israel out of slavery in Egypt. Exodus is a central narrative of the Bible. It recounts the moment that God reclaims Israel as his people, rescues them from slavery in Egypt, and establishes the Ten Commandments to guide their moral and religious freedom as an independent society. In “The Exodus Story,” Professor of English Justin Jackson picks up the biblical narrative where his course on Genesis ended. Join Professor Jackson in learning about the nature of God’s mercy, human freedom, and the relationship between the divine and man. Enroll today to discover the beauty of God reclaiming the Israelites through his mercy and love in “The Exodus Story.” Sign up at ⁠http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/ Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/at-home-with-phil-robertson/id1835224621 Chapters: 00:00-08:08 Granny Robertson plundered Bob Barker’s game show 08:09-17:14 Exodus 15 & the Song of Moses 17:15-23:33 Manna, quail, and a test of trust 23:34-30:39 God fights Israel’s battles in the desert 30:40-37:33 Zion & Sinai: two mountains, two promises 37:34-45:57 God sends down the 10 Commandments 45:58-51:20 True obedience brings joy, not suffering Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So we're back here. We just took these guys out to lunch. I paid. Al drove, though. I'll drove. I'll drove us to lunch. I'll probably get it. Hey, gas receipt or something. He did that one time. He sent me a bill for someone clean. He sent someone to clean the studio. And it sends me the bill. I'm like, well, I didn't want, I didn't think it was dirty.

Oh, by the way, anytime you get something like that happens, it doesn't come for me. It comes from that woman guy gave me. It did come from Lisa, actually. It did not come from Al. Because I don't keep up with such true. Yeah, I don't know what me and John Luke could invoice you for. Well, I bet. No, we brought our time.

Yeah, that's true. We brought your time. Well, we were making fun of Zach because yesterday we had Dr. Jackson here, and we took him to lunch because we felt bad. He had no place to go until he flew out of town. And that goes off because he's, you know, got other fish to fry. Other bones that chew. Other bones that chew. And so off he goes to do his thing.

And so we were like, we felt obligated that we were going to take him out to eat. So we did it. Yeah. But then he calls us and he's like, where are y'all starting to find out? Yeah, because he stuck out back. He can't get in. He's like, hey, let me in. Well, we're doing your job and being a good host.

Well, what you said was, we're starting back at 2. I'm like, well, when I left, we were starting back at 1.30. But first I said, because you thought I was Christian, and Christian handed me his phone. And I said, what is it? You're saying, where are you? I'm not here. And then I said, don't hate me because I'm beautiful.

Well, the whole time at lunch, he kept saying, man, this is just so much better than breakfast. And we were like, why, you know? He was, oh, Zach's not here. So today we're at lunch. And I'm telling the story that he told, Dr. Jackson told me that Pat Sejap, is on the board of Hillsdale College, which I had no idea. And so Christian says,

who's that? That's when I was like, that was the moment. I don't know. I'm paying for the man's food, which he, by the way, ordered double appetit.

He wanted to order double entree and he felt guilty. We're so thankful for you. The double appetizers was for all of us, not just for me. Okay. Zag, we're so thankful for you for you for paying for lunch,

but you did say, pick the most expensive place in town. Whatever you want. Whatever you want. Whatever you want. I was kind of kidding. And then y'all started like, well, what's it? And y'all like seriously debating what's more expensive.

Jack? Was it? John Lix said, I think Jackson is probably the most expensive. Westman or it doesn't have. Then we were going to go just for the most expensive. It wasn't like a fine dining, you know, steakhouse kind of thing. No, we had, you had a yard bird sandwich.

Yeah, I had a fried chicken sandwich. We had a po' boy. It was modest. I just had a steak kebob. You had a steak kebob. You had chicken and waffles. But anyway, so, so Chris is, who doesn't know who Pat Sejack is.

Well, now I do. But now he does. And we explained that to him. And then we got to talk about daytime television and game shows, which I'm assuming are probably going away with a generation. I don't know that because maybe young people are into it. Well, before you say that, we do have to introduce that we, this is the Hillsdale Friday episode, which you can go sign up for free at unashamed for Hillsdale.com.

We're in the study of Exodus. And somehow we're talking about game time or daytime game shows. Exactly. Because Hillsdale College never goes out of style. And so we were telling, I was telling Christian the story because I knew John Luke had heard it, but he had never heard it that our grandma, or maybe it heard it. Our grandmother was on the Price is Right about 30 years ago. And she was 84 at the time.

And she won two cars and a trip and all this. A kitchen. A kitchen. A kitchen. So I didn't realize Zach then explained where these things went because I had no idea. By this time, she didn't live with us anymore. and so because she had always wanted to go, you know, just to be in the audience, because she watched this show religiously.

Every day. Every day since it started. For 30 years, like from when she was retired and forward. And she was in her 80s. And, you know, so it'd been 20 years she'd been watching. And she was excellent on the, once she got on stage. But she was so country sounding. And I just remember thinking, do we sound like, do we sound like that?

Because like in my ears, she said, 500, 500. 500, Bob. 500. 100. 100. That means if you're not from the south, 500 means 500. And there was this college guy. I didn't tell you this at lunch, but there's this college kid that you could tell.

He had done everything to try to get noticed to get on the show. And he was wearing a shirt that he had had when he was four years old. So like the shirt just barely like would go. He was a little guy anyway. And the shirt was like taped to him. And then he was running around. Nathan like a wild man, you know, and I said, Granny, what about that? I remembered his name

back when she got home. What about Tom? And she said, oh, he was obnoxious and despisable. Because he got on her nerves, you know, he was trying to, like, get on the show. And she was like, oh, like everybody there was like, she was there for business. And all these other people were idiots, you know, that was kind of her mindset.

Despisible. It's such a good word. Oh, it's a good word. So Amy got the, if y'all wondering, if y'all wanted, if you had to sell one car to pay The taxes. Yeah, she sold like the little tourist, Ford Taurus. Amy got the Ford Mustang, Cherry Red, convertible. And she was, when she was 84?

No, no. Well, Amy's my cousin. Amy is the cousin. She was living with them at the time, so they got the car. We got the kitchen and the painting, my mom and family. And I didn't know that. So that was news to me. Well, mom, I got what my granny would say, the little boy shot at.

Well, y'all, at that point, at that point, y'all were kind of, you know, Duck Commander was a state. You all were making some money. We were still poor. So my family's role was always, like, we always got the- Were you still in the ministry? Oh, we were, yeah, we were. Which did you, I don't want if your dad realized that apparently when I got into ministry,

I didn't realize this when I went to school and everything, that I had, at some point, signed a vow of poverty that must have been slipped in. Not all churches do that. We grew up in churches of Christ, yeah, you're going to be poor. I signed a vow of poverty because I was poor all the times I was dead. So I didn't realize I was that. I was like, did I do that? Did I actually sign that?

It just so I would never make money, but apparently, yes. So we got all the freebies and hand me downs from the rest of the family. That was our mom was the youngest of seven kids. Yeah. And got that. But your dad would be like, they would come in and my grandmother, who always kind of had a tension relationship, I would call it, with your dad. And she said, oh, I guess Gordon's down there hobnobbing at the sonic. Yeah.

When you were in your high rolling. I mean, that's when you're high rolling, when you hobnav and down at the sonic. Back in the day, nobody had money back then. I mean, that's sonic money. I mean, Phil was feeding everybody was fishing. And made out of the woods, nobody's going down to the sonic. That's next level. Hobnaving at the sun.

Well, we're back in Exodus. Well, I don't know. There's no segue here whatsoever. I was just making you to pull up fail and just read me a version. God provides for the Israelites. Yeah, if the Israelites were poor, then they plundered the Egyptians, just like Granny did on. Yeah. Granny plundered.

I mean, she plundered the Egyptian. Yeah, Bob Barker and the Price is Right. She had a picture, by the way, on her TV until she passed a Bob Barker with her, like, big thing, merit that she wore her name tag. And it sat on top of her TV. I feel like this could be a movie. I think it could be too. About a country grandma that wins the prices right. Yeah.

Yeah. I think that could be like the mastermind, that kind of vibe. Yeah, I think I already did this, called Hillbilly Elegy. Yeah. That was a salty grandmother. That was a salty grandmother. That was a great book, by the way. Well, we got through the plagues, and the last plague that we got through was the Passover, right, the killing of the firstborn.

Then the Passover, you see salvation for Israel, which then ultimately, you see the real salvation of Israel happen at the Red Sea moment, where Israel enters into the Red Sea. Of course, they're winding all, you know, beforehand, begging to go back into slavery, which we talked about in last podcast. They pierce through the Red Sea when it parts, and then water on both sides, and then that water slams back down on their enemies

and swallows up, all of their problems whole, which is kind of this idea of our own baptism, right? And Paul brings that up, and he's at First Grand The 10, he uses that analogy. He says, you know, because they had the class. out on top, the water on the sides.

It was almost like, you know, they were baptized as they came out. Yeah. And there is a lot of definite typology when you think about it that many times people are delivered from something. And yet there are times they would either attempt to or go back into something that you know is terrible for you. Like you were thinking, why would you ever want to go by? I mean, like, you were here generationally.

You were in these curses and stuck in Egypt and building. bricks without straw. But then as soon as the things got tough, literally three days into the freedom, they're like, we want to go back. Yeah. Like, I mean, there are not enough graves in Egypt, you know, that we come out here to die? I mean, just the idea, but he makes the point, and I think wisely, it does show you the long-suffering nature, not only of God, but of leadership, of dealing with, he kept saying

God was bringing them along. Remember he kept talking about how this whole process. is like him trying to teach them to do something. And it really describes ministry. I mean, it is that. You see, when you're born again, the idea is it's like a new birth. And so it takes a while to grow into maturity.

I mean, you can't expect somebody to come right out of the water of baptism and then all of a sudden have it all figured out. I mean, you got to grow. It's a process. I mean, say, yeah, we're in Lecture 6, which is Exodus 15 through 19, and we're going to maybe even probably end with the giving of the 10. commandments a little bit yeah um and so what's happening here is really this is what you said it's like

entering into like this wilderness moment so they've had salvation but the but but the salvation is not fully complete yet it there is that wilderness moment which i think we i can attest to that for my own like when i came to christ it was not a for me it wasn't one and done i don't know maybe it was for y'all no no what was it like for you oh yeah that's i mean i totally relate to those realites of the like they see all the miracles and then they immediately forget and those are like, what was me? I mean, that was totally me. I mean, I had a good life,

but I came to Christ, was like, I'm following God. But then, you know, every minor and major inconvenience, I'm like, is God real? Is this all true? Why am I doing this? I want to give up. Even though I've seen the miracles God's done

and the people's lives around me, my own life. And then he comes through, and then the next year it's like a minor convenience. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, am I like, am I still a Christian? Am I still doing this? Or asking for forgiveness? Or is, am I doing the right thing? You know, like we just, as humans forget.

And I love it that you're painting the picture that everybody struggles. Even if you grow up in a Christian home or in a good environment and strong family around you, you're still going to struggle at some point with something. And it's for a lot of people. it's like a lifestyle like I did and Zach did for a while where you just get into the world and all that stuff. And some people never go there and you're glad because then you don't have all those bad memories. But at the same time, you're still going to struggle. Yeah. You're still going to be a challenge. This is going to be something different. You know, Jay's talks about it. He never got into

the drinking and that part of the lifestyle. But then he became the older brother in Luke 15. You know, he was very judgmental and, you know, just and struggle with God in that way. Well, why, how do you know why should we rejoice when people you know they should have been right to begin i mean he he had that mindset mentality and he said that held him back yeah and he had to be like christ and learn how to deal with people in weakness so that in itself can be a weakness yeah uh you christia you said you had a dream last night do you remember what you said you were dreaming about yeah i had this like crazy dream it was i saw like a ladder and then i saw eden and i just had these crazy temper motifs You came in this morning

That's what he tells us He had temple motif change I texted John Luke last night What did I text John Luke last night? He said, And we know John Luke was away I said, I was away

I texted John Luke at 1030 I said, Be thinking about your temple motifs tonight And John Luke said It's how I start my day So yeah, they're making fun of me But I'm a bag

But then they tell me to my face That they're doing it So I guess that's fine And it actually came up later In one of the things Because when he says He says, this is a vivid temple motif. I was like, did he get that from Zach?

Like, I thought Zach was in one to use that phrase. No, I got it. Dr. Jackson said it in the last lecture. But it is interesting when they come out of the Red Sea moment, they have the song that of Moses, it's kind of before their entry into the wilderness. So it's really like a song of like recapturing everything that just happened.

It's a beautiful song that was written a song called The Song of Moses. And isn't that cool that the idea that you would, in a moment, like that, that the ideas that we're going to stop and sing. We're going to sing to God. We're going to sing to God. I mean, that makes me feel so great about what we do now. There's something powerful about singing songs. Yeah, they're worshipping Yahweh, and then they're retelling the story.

And so we won't read the whole thing, but it's like the first half of Genesis. I mean, I'm sorry, Exodus 15. Maybe the first three quarters of it. But it's this song, it's all about like what they came out of. and the deliverance. But there's like the pain that's in there too, right? There's like, it's like a story of suffering and story of deliverance. But the last two verses, I'll read these because I think this is the whole point of the book of Exodus.

I mean, this is the point of the book. I think it's probably the point of the entire Bible. If you were to, you know, circle this in your Bible, Exodus 15, 17, and 18, it gives us the real, you know, temple motif. He says, you will bring them in and plant them on your own mountain. So there's that idea of where a mountain is high up. It's where heaven and earth me. The place, O Lord, which you have made for your abode, the abode thinking, this is where I live, this is my house, this is my home, the sanctuary.

Oh, Lord, which your hands have established, the Lord will reign forever. So that really is the point of the story of Exodus. It's the story of how God makes his home with us. And so we get that picture here in this song, and that's why the song kind of ends with that. It ends with this is the point of the whole thing. It's where God is going to tabernacle with humanity is going to. And despite our belligerent disobedience, which they just did,

but we want to be slaves, and we're in the very next chapter. They're going to have the bread come down out of heaven. And what Israel again, it's like, we're going to hoard it up. And if you can imagine this on a timeline and you're just looking at it, This song will arch over to Mount Sinai and this idea of the presence and the Almighty, but really doesn't include them yet, although they're not going to figure that out for a while. And then you've got the tabernacle and the temple. If you could just keep following this over as it kind of shows you a picture of what's coming.

But all of that pales to the major arch, which goes all the way to Christ. Yeah. Because that's the ultimate dwelling. Because you don't see the full. You don't get that until Jesus comes and sends his spirit. Because you say, you see this picture. It's like this Lord's going to somehow build his house and there's going to be this connection with us. But then you keep reading and you're like, okay, maybe this time.

Well, no, not yet. Because the next picture of it is so frightening and scary when they actually get to Sinai. It's like, you can't even touch the mountain. Forget about like we're going to all be holding hands singing Kumbaya. We can't even get on the mountain. And then Moses even says, you told us not to get on it. I mean, he's even telling God. But it's that picture and that idea.

And you said this in a previous podcast, Zagic, and it was good, that we can't stand the glory of God apart from knowing who God is. It overwhelmed. It kills us. I mean, Moses was desiring this. And he even gets to see the back part of him. And he's glowing like he's nuclear. I mean, that's how powerful the glory of God is. You can't.

We just say, oh, yeah, we'd love to be a part of that. It's like, well, you got, it's going to take something on my part for you to be able to get there. Because it's got to be, I think what that means is it's got to be, you have to enter into his presence from a position of, yes, I see your holiness. Yes, I see your sovereignty, your power. Yes, I see that. But then the other caveat is, and I see your goodness. Yeah. I think that, I mean, I don't know how y'all view this, but the original sin seemed to me be more of a lack of trust, right?

It's a lack of I don't actually believe that you're good. Yeah, your intentions aren't good for me. So you can't enter into God's presence without that in mind. He says, they can't eat from this tree of the knowledge of good and evil and live forever. They can't do that. That's not going to be good. And at this point, he's still competing, by the way, with the other gods that they just left. So we're just now establishing that he's better than the other guys.

And some aren't so sure about that, as we'll see when we get to chapter 32. And just real quick, guys, if you want to be a part of this study with us, which we highly encourage, you can take these courses. We're in Less than Six today, and maybe we'll get into a little bit of seven, too. In the Exodus course, you can get an unashamed for Hillsdale.com. Sign up. It's free. And you can jump into this course with us.

Yeah, so interesting to me, too, because you have, like I said, they're murmuring before they get to the Red Sea. You know, like you mentioned, there weren't enough graves in Egypt. And then they're murmuring after they get to the Red Sea, then you're murmuring. after they get to the Red Sea, then you just keep seeing this repetition, right? Then God brings manna and quail, and then they're disobedient with that again

because they're trying to collect too much. And so, yeah, you just continually see this thing. I thought he had a good line. He talked about how disobedience turns God's blessings into a plague. Yeah, that was good. I thought that was just, yeah. Unpacked that. What is it again?

Disobedience. What does it say? Disobedience turns God's blessings into a plague. Because the mana, remember is there, and he's told them how to do it. Don't get more than you need. Don't hold it over because then you'll think it's by your hand. And then they did it, and then it turned into maggots.

And then it's like they created their own plague in their disobedience, which is a brilliant point. Yeah. This is exactly what they did. Yeah. Yeah, because all the excess that they had, you know, the morning after. Because everything was a stink of death back in Egypt, and now we brought that with us. Yeah, yeah, which is.

Yeah. Maybe because this is the, to, to, to receive his blessing is to receive the truth that God did he is good. And that manifest presence with, as you read in chapter 16, verse 6, when it comes to the bread, it says Moses and Aaron said to all the people of Israel, at evening you shall know that it was Yahweh who brought you out of the land of Egypt. So again, you're seeing that name of God tied to his intention and purpose of making it known. And then when he talks about at the end of that, he said, Twilight, this is all.

also in the same chapter. You shall eat meat, and in the morning you shall be filled with breath. So God's provision, right? God's going to take care of you. Then you shall know that I am the Lord your God. I'm Yahweh. So this intention of God wanting to reveal his name is it's like the continual thing that pops up throughout the whole entire story. Right. But also, Luke, you mentioned earlier about sometimes the blessings that God can become so second nature to you that you forget about how growth they are, because he doesn't get into this because it's later in Exodus, but there comes another time where they're like, ah, you know, man and quail. Like, they're sick of it.

I mean, we're saying, you know, at least back in Egypt, we had some onions, you know, something spicy, you know, it's like, really? I mean, like, so now of a sudden this, you know, God wafers and delicious quail and then memory, it's just, and then God's mad at it at the beginning, he's like, oh, you'll eat said to it's coming out of your nose, you know. And it's like, you just, you take it for granted. But we do the same thing. I mean, it's like we see blessing and then sometimes we just think it's us.

We think someone has my own hand. And so it happens continually. I think this verse in, this is 1524, I think kind of sums of this next section, like, gets us closer. And so the people grumble against Moses because they didn't have any food. And God showed them slogging it through into the water. and then the water became sweet. Then it says, and the Lord made them a statute and a rule

and he tested them saying, if you listen to the voice of God, which is right, I'll put none of the diseases on you, but I will be your Lord and I'll be your healer. And that idea of like testing or training, teaching a lesson and then providing something good with the water, with the manna,

with the water again, is to me it feels like God's like I'm going to give you these small things these small tests of obedience to show you that like if you obey even if you think it's arbitrary that's going to turn out to be good and then that leads up to the Ten Commandments which ends up being life or death for them

of okay you've seen me give you water you've thrown the log in the thing you've seen me give you food and not gathered it up you've seen me say strike the rock and you struck it and I give you more water now I'm going to give you these commandments. You know, even if you don't know why I'm telling you to do it, if you follow it, it will turn out good for you.

Which is the only explanation for why he would tell him not to gather man on the seventh day. Right. That was just to prep them for the Sabbath principle, which I loved the point he made about that, and Jesus makes the same point. Remember Jesus kept getting into trouble because he would heal on the Sabbath or pick heads of grain. And he was like, man wasn't made for Sabbath.

Sabbath was made for man. He got a backwards. And the principle was here. I mean, God didn't need to take a day off from creation, but he's shown us all alone that we need a day off. And I love the point Jackson made about it. He said, and it's not just for you. Because remember, your kids couldn't work,

your servers couldn't work, your animals couldn't work. I mean, like, it's a break for everybody to have a better relationship. And he even made that point when he got into the commandments, which I think is a brilliant point. Yeah, you've got to think about confusing it would be for Moses too, right? Because you have all the plagues, you have the Red Sea, you have the man in the quail. And then all of a sudden, the people are like,

we're thirsty. And then Moses is just like, they want to stone me. I'm like, just thinking about that from a human, it's like you do all these things. And then it's like, then you're fearful that they're going to stone you.

And like, I just picture Moses being like, like, what more can I do for you people, you know? You've ever worked for the, you've ever worked to minister, you know how he feels.

It's like, feed me, Seymour. Because you go, I, I'll probably say, I walk in. I'm excited. I'm preaching. I got a sermon to preach. And some guy says, why are people wearing hats in here?

I don't know. But you know what? I don't care. I don't care. But you know what I'm saying? I mean, like to that guy and that moment, that was the most important thing. But to me, who had prepared for a week to present something to help lead people to a closer walker or Christ, I don't care about whether somebody's wearing a hat. Well, let me think about that idea. What continues to pop up is I want you to know that it was me, the Lord Yahweh, that brought you out of the land of Egypt. You didn't bring yourself out. You didn't muster. You didn't part the Red Sea. You didn't deal with Pharaoh and get him to relent and allow you to leave.

You didn't provide the bread from heaven or the quail. You didn't provide. And now they're at that moment at the rock where they're like, we're thirsty. They're still, it's like, I mean, you kind of get Moses's frustration with this. I think it's because people want to kill me. And then what's interesting of that story is that when Moses in that frustration and in his anger, because I think this is a pivotal moment right, right before Sinai, that where you see the futility of this whole system,

like this whole, like this is not going to work because of the belligerents of the people. Yeah. The belligerent disrespect and disregard for the provisions of God, like just over and over again. And it's like, what else can I do? And I don't think there was a level to which God could. But even if you take the spiritual element out, Zach, it's the mob mentality. Yeah.

Because you remember when we did the movie Torch Barrier and you were talking about the French Revolution? And so the original mob that turned it over, guess what? It didn't take long before that mob got turned. All those leaders all got lost their heads. Yeah, Maximilian Robespierre, who was the initiator of the French Revolution in terms of the revolutionary fighters, or he was the guy, and he was the one that instituted the guillotine. Yeah. Guess how he died?

Guillotine. The guillotine. So they end up turning on him. So that is the mob mentality. And you see it. But it's the mentality of humanity. Exactly. That's why I'm saying.

It's the humans tend to do that. And so out of things we don't like or out of fear or out of whatever, then we want to turn, everybody's like, oh, what's going to? I mean, you can watch it. Like when we were up during the hurricane, like I started fixing. feeling like scared within 12 hours because I'm seeing groups of people gather together. They don't have food. They don't have gas.

There's no power. And they're starting to get together. And you can just sense it. You can feel it. There's a desperation. The hoarding begins. And then you tend to just kind of take your little family and pull them close to you. And like, I got to get out of here.

And it just, all that would take was 12 hours of a disruption into life. Post-civilized society without like just the fear of not having resources in the future. Like people start acting really crazy. So just from a human standpoint, I get this. Like through us, we're kind of looking at it through the lens of, can't you believe? Look at all those guys done. But it's so hard to fight that human nature that I got to get mine.

And you mentioned the timing. They were only three days after the song. We're singing, we're worshiping. And again, three days. Here we are three days later. We're thirsty. By other point about that, I thought this was funny when they complained about wanting to go back

right after coming across the Red Sea. It's like, where would they go? Like, they turned around and it's water and they're like, Moses. That's a good point. Can you part that Red Sea again? So we can go back through. So we don't have to walk over here.

So a really good point. Yeah, like, there's nowhere to go. Like, the only way you're going to get back through is the God of heaven's got of. The ships have been burned. Right. Yeah, like we have to split the thing again. And do we have to give back all the stuff?

Yeah. All the stuff we took on the way up. I want to keep my plunder. where you wind up in Exodus 17 is you actually wind up with a picture of failure and even Moses's failure in striking the rock. You're right? Because the idea was if you strike this rock,

then water's going to come out. So the solution, and I do think this is prophetic of the feud, this is a prophecy here. Yeah, because it gets mentioned later. Oh, yeah, 1 Corinthians 104 that says Christ is the rock. Didn't you mention 1st Corinthians 10 all the ago?

Paul references all of this moment. in 1st 15th, but Christ, when Moses strikes the rock, like that rock is, is, that this is the picture of the Christ. Yeah, that's that cornerstone. That cornerstone. That cornerstone. Yeah. And that's where the water is going to flow.

So then when you get all the way to the end of the Bible and you actually have a picture of water flowing out of the, it's an Ezekiel passage where the water flows out of the temple. And John 4, you mentioned, you know, where he's talking about the well, says living water will flow. Again, that's temple language. And so that, you know, if we didn't have that passage in, well, we still would have it, but like the passage in Ezekiel is so key because he looks under the door of the temple and it's just water rushing out and turns into a river. And that same exact picture is mentioned in Revelation 22.

And that water is, anything that water touches just blossoms with life. And then there's a tree. And that tree in Revelation 22 has. as the leaves on it. You can take these leaves from it, and it says they're a bomb, like a healing bomb for the nations. So now we're back to the whole,

the mixed multitude came up. Which is what he said, right, the healer. You know, you get the same, so all that type of all, that's why it's such a powerful passage. Well, and that brings to mind when Jesus was on the cross and stabbed and the water flowed out of the side,

that gives the idea of, oh, we see water flowing out. It's, we're about to see life happening. Yeah. And then even like, Dr. Jackson didn't deal with it, but like there's some great spiritual principles in 17, the back end of it, when they have this battle with Amalekites, which is interesting. It's the first time they kind of had to fight it out because they're attacked. And Joshua is the first time we see it.

He's a military guy. Of course, he's going to want to be in a central figure once they get to Canaan. And you see him down there fighting. It was interesting because, again, these aren't trained fighting men. And so they're down there fighting, but really the power's up on the – Moses has his hands. extended. As long as he's reaching up to the Lord again by his hand and God's hand, things are going well as long as they can see that. But the minute of the hands started going

down, oh no. And then the hammock, so it's this back and forth battle. So then they're holding his arms up for it. And then finally they just have to hold his arms up so they can win this battle. You know, and it's like he's still showing them like you're not you're not equipped for this without me. Yeah. And so it comes back around. Be sure and sign up to take the course Unashamed for Hillsdale.com if you hadn't already done it. Yeah, I think you see this most clearly when you get to Exodus 19, and this is when they end up at Mount Sinai. And there's a lot in this text here.

There's no way we're going to get to it all. But there's a lot here. Again, there's a reference back to 1st Corinthians 10. That's why you need to read 1st Corinthians 10. And also I would add in Hebrews 12. Yeah. It's another great picture because the Hebrew writer says in 18, you have not come to a mountain that can be touched.

There's burning with fire to darkness, gloom and storm, to a trumpet blast, to a voice speaking words, that those who heard it begged to speak no more. He's describing that whole scene because they could not bear what was commanded. If even an animal touched the mountain, it must be stone. The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, I am trembling with fear.

And then he says, but you have come to Mount Zion. So he explains that transition, under Christ. But it's a great thing to look forward and say that's what this was about. Yeah, that's a great point. It was in the moment,

but it was also about a future moment where all that fear and tremly would be taken away. When he says you come to a mountain that can't be in the Hebrew swell passage, you come to a mountain that can't be touched, what he's saying there, this is not the physical mountain of Sinai.

He's clearly contrasting Sinai with Zion. Yeah, correct. And Zion's a new mountain, which comes up again in Revelation, by the way, by John the Revelator, sitting on Zion. and he sees the new Jerusalem coming from Zion.

Right, right, right. So this is like all temple stuff here, right? So what's happening in Exodus 19 is, oh, and the points also made that Mount Sinai is, it's actually Hagar. It's a weird, it's a weird thing that the New Testament writers do when they talk about this moment. Where's that at? Galatians. Galatians 4? Yeah, let me read that real quick.

Paul basically brings this up, this contrasting Sinai point. I mean, Hebrews does it better, but Galatians 4, it says that this may be interpreted as allegory, that these women are two covenants. So you have two covenants going on here. One is from Mount Sinai, which that's the covenant we're about to read about, and then we're kind of participating in now the giving of the Ten Commandments, and then also the book of the, what's called the Book of the Covenant, which is basically the law.

Yeah. And she, one is from Mount Sinai bearing children for slavery. She's Hagar. Now we're all the way back to Genesis where we started because Hagar, Ishmael, right?

Now Hagar is, Paul says, is Mount Sinai in Arabia. She corresponds to the present Jerusalem. Think about if you're Israel. I mean, that's like the most derogatory thing that someone can say. to you, is, oh, you're actually the Ishmael in this story now.

Yeah. I mean, that's like, wait, well, whoa, no, no, where are the children the promise it? Exactly. Current Jerusalem, present Jerusalem is Hagar. Yeah. For she is in slavery with her children. Now we're all the way back to this Exodus moment, right? That we're thinking slavery here with their children.

But the Jerusalem above is free. She is our mother. For it is written, rejoice o' barren one who does not bear break forth and cry aloud. You who are not in labor for the children of the desolate one will be more than those of the one who has a husband. Now you brothers like Isaac are children of the promise. And so this is, I think this is so key understanding these covenants because when you get to places like Romans, Romans chapter 9 is a key text for all of this because it clearly is defining who Israel is. And the way that Paul defines Israel is to who.

Israel is the children of the promise, not the children of the DNA of the flesh. And the way you know you're right is because the backdrop of why Galatians was written to begin with was because they were trying to add circumcision into becoming a son of God, becoming a Christian. And Paul was like, that thinking is out. And then he went to that graphic links to show that. It's not you don't have to become an Israelite in a physical sense to then become a son of God. You know how we know this is true too? how does Hebrews 12 in?

Exactly. About the kingdom. You belong to a kingdom that can't be shaken nor destroyed. You say, well, what does that mean? The kingdom language, why is Hebrews in with that? Because you mentioned Hebrews 12 a few minutes ago, referencing this exact moment. Well, listen to what it says, Nexus 19, where we're at. He says, you, this is verse 6, and you shall be to me a kingdom of priest and a holy nation.

Well, that goes back to what we talked about in the last podcast. Why are they eating the meat at the pats? or the lamb at the Passover because they're a priest. Right. Well, who else is going to be a priest? He's saying you are a kingdom of priest. Israel, you're a kingdom of priest. You are a holy nation.

There's a kingdom language. Then you read that thing. I don't know what all that means. Well, you got to go to what it means to us. You have to read Hebrews to understand what this text means now. Right. Because all this is realized in Christ. And they only, I'm sure from their perspective, they were only seeing this as

because this is the first time you'll see this kingdom when it was being mentioned. I mean, that's a new concept he just dropped on them. These people have been enslaved all this time. They've been under Egyptian rule. I mean, Pharaoh was their king. They never had their own kingdom. They never had their own kingdom. So all of a sudden it's like, so they're thinking, kind of like the disciples misunderstood,

oh, that means we're going to, now we're going to be the new. Now we're fixing to do some ruling around here. And that, that permeates their thought process all through the kings and the picking of Saul and going all the way forward. So it's pretty amazing. But again, it was never God's final intent. We don't find that out until much later. You know, you've got still got a couple of thousand years of history to get through.

Yeah, but it's right here. This is where it all begins, which is very, very, very big. You're popping off. Wow, this is like a-in-our-house. I just need, like, some popcorn. I was like, Exodus 19, Hebrew, 12, Galatians 4. He got in our wheelhouse. We were like, well, we've been permeated.

this for a while. So it's like, you start. That's why it's called Unashamed for us now. Unashamed by it's like, oh, we've been on this kingdom talk for a long time.

But that is so important as this being the birthplace of it. But you have to study it. Anything in the Bible we're studying, just like we're doing this, you have to understand what it meant to them before we can really get the,

I mean, we're looking back over this arch of history and able to see this clearly, but you have to put yourself in these people's position. I mean, they don't know.

They just got out. they're thirsty, they're hungry. You know what I'm saying? I mean, like, you got to put yourself in that position. Yeah, they didn't know what was coming. There was no way they were going. They realized it, you know? No, not at all.

Yeah. Yeah, the funny thing for me is when they get to Sinai and God is telling Moses, you know, you know, tell them not to touch the mountain. And it talks about Moses having faith and the people that they're not going to touch the mountain. And I'm like, what do you mean you have? Like, you're telling God that they're not going to say.

I'm like, what are you talking about? God's like, no, stop. Go tell them not to touch the mountain. Exactly. Like, how would Moses have faith in them right now? Yeah, but they're good. They follow instructions very well. I thought Dr. Jackson's point was cool to tie that back to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

I thought about that correlation. I never, that's one thing I haven't quite, I haven't quite grasped that whole concept yet, to be honest with you. That people would have eventually been able to eat of the knowledge. I couldn't quite, that was a little deeper than I can. My mind can't quite go there. I don't understand that. Do y'all? Well, I mean, if it was created and it was into perpetuity because they would have stayed alive forever, then, I mean, I would assume he's right.

I never thought about it. Yeah, I mean, I've thought about it and heard of it a couple of different ways. Because they were denied from the tree. Right. I mean, that was the deal. I mean, you could take the look on of it. It's all what ifs. We just don't know.

Yeah. It's kind of like wondering what afterlife's going to. Yeah. We all know. But you could take the view on it of eventually, God, created it so it's good so eventually he would have given it to them and they would have known good and evil or you can take it as the act of eating it and disobeying caused them to understand good and evil like the good and evil wasn't a substance in the fruit but it was a it was the

the act of obedience and disobedience that is teaching them one way or the other that the act of eating the fruit and it was even more or more than just disobedience that maybe just disobedience framed up in the context of it's to dine alone without God. Yeah. Because it says they saw that the fruit was pleasing to the eye. So it's almost like I'm looking at this fruit and I want the fruit for the sake of the fruit. So whatever the thing is, it terminates on itself instead of being priestly or Eucharistic and being more like something that I participate in in communion with him to give praise back to him.

I think the presence is the center of it all. And I think that's why when you get to this test. text in Exodus 19 is so important that what this text centers around is presence, because what you see is God condescends and he comes and he gets on the mountain now. Like, that's a big move. Like, I mean, in terms of like, because you think about what were they trying to do in Genesis 11 at the Tower of Babel, they were trying to build the mountain up to God or the tower up to God.

But instead, what happens here, it's like the reverse. It's not that man goes to God. It's that God comes to man, but it's not quite there yet. it's not what we see in Jesus because he's on the mountain, but then what does he say? Don't come near. And it's interesting that once again in 19, we got that three days again

because to go to the people who's first 10, consecrate them today and tomorrow, have them wash their clothes and be ready for the third day. We go again with this third day typologist all the way through it. And it's interesting because he's telling him watched themselves and don't have sex, no sexual relations. Keep it in the pocket. He keep in the pocket.

And the idea, again, is why would he choose those things? Like, that doesn't make you unholy or holy, but somehow God wanted all attention on the moment. And so it's like the basic instincts of what we would do. He's like, no, I want you to take three days and I want you just to get ready for what's about to happen. So it's an interesting way he approached this people. If you view it typologically, is it?

Is this... Because with the Mount of Transfiguration, right, when Jesus was with Moses and Elijah and the disciples, because obviously if Jesus is outside of time and space, like, could that theoretically have been the presence that was on the mountain here at Sinai? Oh, are there a correlation between them? I definitely think that the presence here is Christ. Yeah. Or I'll say this is the sun. God always like, Christ is the incarnation of the sun.

So Christ hasn't incarnated yet. Yeah. So I think it is the divine son. It's the son of God. And then when you get to the Mount of Transfiguration, you have Moses there who represents what he's receiving right here. Moses is the law. And then the other is the prophecy of the prophet and the law, prophecy, prophet law, and then the fulfillment of both. And somehow the interaction was interesting because as Moses goes up, you know, I mean like, and the actual law.

is given. I mean, there's, there's a presence there, but it's not in a physical sense of something, a person. And yet at the same time later, he wants to see him, and he can't look at his face, but he can look at his back. And so then you do get some sort of physical manifestation, which is really interesting. You know, it happens when you get over to 32. And so, I don't know, it's one of those things. It's one of those curiosities. I can't wait to find out because it's going to be, I mean, like. Well, what you have in, Exodus 19 is the part, it's the part of the story where the sin of Israel is essentially highlighted. It's the sin of humanity in our particular situation is that God is holy.

Yeah. He sits on his throne. He's on this mountain. He is near. I mean, there is some, but, but there's a dividing wall that cannot be, if you penetrate this bear, you're going to die. Like you are going to die. It's like it's the same thing that we saw in Exodus 3 whenever Moses is there and and he sees the burning bush, the bush that's not being consumed, the fire that doesn't need any fuel burning. And and he says, don't come any further. Stop. The ground

you're standing on is holy. So this is another picture of stop. But now, but now Moses is invited up because he's that mediator figure. But everybody else, like don't let anybody else come up here. if they, that I'm too holy, my holiness will event. And by the way, that plays forward. And Jackson talked about it. And, you know, got the Ark of the Covenant was another object that you couldn't even touch it. Like, he was like, don't touch this.

You touch this, you die. And it happened to some people. Yeah. And then it even taken in, it would be taken in, but not, you, they had a certain way that had to carry it. I mean, like, it was a serious business. So I know we're going to, I want to say this, unashamed for Hillsdale.com. You can take this with us.

We're in, which one are we in? Six and seven. Six and seven. I want to get to the Ten Commandments real quick. But to get there, again, it's what you have to understand about this moment is that if you just read Exodus 19, then you should think, uh-oh. I mean, that's the feeling you should get. There's not really like a moment in Exodus 19.

Oh, the Exodus 19 is a, uh-oh. Like nobody can come any closer. We've gotten as far as we can get to the presence of God. and there seems to be a barrier, be thinking about that temple motif. Again, be thinking about the tree of life, which is now guarded by the curtain or by the flaming, the angels,

the cherubon with the flaming sword, right? Nobody comes past this. Nobody gets to the tree of life. Then that's going to become the actual in the tabernacle. But right now, that barrier is right here at Mount Sinai. And so then enter in,

okay, now what's going to happen is God's going to call Moses up, and he's going to actually give Moses over these next few chapters. He's going to give Moses the way that they can make it through this barrier. Right. There'll be more bad news because they're going to realize in just a minute that, oh, but we can't do that, right? But right now he's at least saying, okay, if you're going to penetrate this barrier, here's the Ten Commandments, and then he's going to give the book, the Book of the Covenant. But the law, and I want to say this, because a lot of times we, We go back and we read the Old Testament, and then we read the New Testament. We would think, oh, Old Testament, and Dr. Jackson talks about this.

Old Testament is mean God. Yeah. And New Testament's nice God. Right. I'm paraphrasing. He didn't say quite like that. We think the law is bad and then grace is good. But that's not what the New Testament writer says.

No. The law, he says, is actually good. Yeah. Yeah. Good and holy. Yeah. You know, I mean, the law, the problem wasn't in law. The problem was the inability to keep law for everybody.

What did y'all think about the Ten Commandments part of Dr. Jackson's presentation? I mean, you kind of said it was pretty self-explanatory. Yeah, I thought it was pretty self-explanatory. I think, I thought the point that I thought was interesting was how he went from, you kind of talked about a little bit earlier, like the inverting. Yeah. The reversal of it. I thought it was going from Honor Your Father, Mother, which was positive to like the more kind of negative connotations.

I don't really think. Half of them are no. or nose and half of them to do this. Is that what you mean about the invert? But he talked about how you could get at the very end, which was don't covet. And then you can start working your way backwards. If you covet, you'll tend to want to bear false witness. You'll tend to want to steal other people's stuff.

You'll tend to want to sleep with somebody else's spouse. Ultimately, you may even kill somebody. And at all, he says you could invert that and it could come from either end of the situation. That's interesting. That's Frances Schaefer. He painted this picture in his book, true spirituality and he said that it's like a will and all the nine nine the first nine commandments are spokes and the hub of that will is the 10th commandment thou shalt not covet because you can't

violate any of the other nine without first violating the inner one of your heart to cut it yeah yeah yeah yeah and that's kind of his point yeah yeah the point was it was cool because he was you know because it's because it's because it's because it don't covet another man's that another house wasn't it yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and then god then he finally says yeah yeah yeah yeah Yeah, and then he's like, your neighbor's wife, your wife, his possessions, his servants, his possessions, his, yeah, his animals, and then it ended with like, or anything. Or anything he had anything else, yeah.

I thought that part was funny. Which, if you think about it, and this is huge, and we're almost out of time, because I thought the lack of contentment is what he's talking about. You remember what Paul said in Philippians for? I have learned the secret to life, to be content, whatever the circumstances. And then he says that famous verse that everybody gets tattooed on. You know, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. But the only reason you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you

is if you find contempt in Christ first. I think that's what Paul means in Galatians too. And he says, we're jealousy and selfish ambition exists. So does every evil practice. So if you look at that from the Ten Commandments, covet to jealousy, selfishness. Yeah. Yeah, then you will lie, you will steal,

you will be inclined to do these things. Which is why it's so important. Well, I know we're almost that time. I want to end with this, though, because I think this is super important. Because we're really rapidly moving through the book of Exodus. This is really like a 30,000-foot overview. But in the law, what you do see is that you see the way that we can enter into the presence of God. The problem is that it lacks the means.

I think I mentioned this on a previous podcast. But when you get to Exodus 24, right before the building of the tabernacle, you see that this covenant that God has made with man is actually confirmed, and it's confirmed in atonement. It's confirmed in the building of an altar, and it's confirmed in the sacrifice of the blood of goats and bulls. And so that 100% is pointing right forward to Christ, and the sacrifice of Christ that happens in the Hebrew writer is very good about tying this back together.

But what you're going to find is that the law, what the law represents and what the law is, the way that we get into the presence of God. The problem is we lack the means to do it. We can't do it. We can't obey it. We can't obey it. The problem is our lack of obedience.

And what's going to happen with Christ? And if you listen to this podcast, we've been talking about this because we've been in John, chapter 14 through John 17, and the coming of the Holy Spirit, that God is going to give us the sacrifice of Jesus. He's going to be the one that's slayed on the altar. He's going to be the one that is sacrificed for our sin,

and that he is going to be the one that will be crucified. buried in a tomb and that would be resurrected on the third day that will ascend to sit at the right hand of the Father and he will send the Holy Spirit who will live in the new temple of our body and the Spirit will enable us to be obedient. That's the picture. That's what's going to ultimately happen is the Holy Spirit of God is going to enable us to be obedient. And you clearly see in this story when the Spirit wasn't present in the hearts of human beings, they did not have the ability to be obedient. All we need is a verse of just as I am.

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