Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1206 | The Robertsons Get Snubbed by a Rock & Roll Icon & the True Meaning of a Crown of Thorns

Episode Date: November 11, 2025

Al kicks things off with a rock-and-roll mystery—was it Pat Benatar or Joan Jett who once snubbed the Robertsons on their tour bus? Jase follows it up with a story of how one bold comment may have permanently ended his shot at golfing with Masters champion Bubba Watson. Zach shares a sweet family milestone that has everyone feeling sentimental and grateful. The guys reflect on the crown of thorns from John 19, exploring how something meant for mockery became the ultimate symbol of mercy, kingship, and redemption. In this episode: John 19; 1 Corinthians 2, verses 2 and 6–8; Hebrews 4; James 2, verse 10; 2 Corinthians 5; 1 Corinthians 15, verse 49; Genesis 3 Chapters: 00:00-04:30 Adventures in Idaho 04:31-13:30 Zach’s son is engaged! 13:31-17:26 Jase forgets the name of his platinum album 17:27-25:11 Raising kids who marry followers of Jesus 25:12-30:35 Pat Benatar rejects the Robertsons 30:36-36:50 The frustration with denominations 36:51-42:51 Jewish leaders break their own laws to persecute Jesus 42:52-50:37 Pilate sees Jesus’ innocence 50:38-56:58 The deeper meaning of a crown of thorns — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashame. We're settling in here. We're Sands Maddie. She went on a cruise this week with her husband. She earned a week off, which is great blessing. Sometimes this is no country for old men on this podcast, so I understand why people have to get away, right?

Which is true, you know. It's actually unseasonably cool. here. Would you agree? I would agree. In fact, it was funny because when I got in last night, we've been in Idaho. Oh, wow. And it was actually colder here than it was there, which is unusual.

Well, did you see our friends that were on the podcast? No, because they're quite a bit north of where we were. But I did ask some people about that part of Idaho because, you know, they're almost in Canada. We were down in Boise, which is a southern part of the state. Did they use the word remote? They did. They were like, when I told them the story there, well, first we get it.

We understand why they escape. But then at the same time, they said they escaped to a remote area. But the people that I met were amazing. Listen to this, Zach. It was a Christian school. They call it classical Christian. And it's kind of in the Hillsdale line of thinking. Because Hillsdale's a college, doesn't take any money from the government.

That's the way this little Christian school is. And it's not, he's super big because it's kind of out in the rural area. But they've been around since guess when? I thought you were. That's a long time. 243. No, 1908, 115 years, the school's been there. And there was some people there, part of a five-generation family that went to this Christian school.

I mean, think about how impressive that is that you're around that long. So we raised some money for them. They had an auctioneer there. And the auctioneer looked exactly like the guy, the Mr. Wonderful, from Shark Tank. You know what I'm talking about? The guy that was the black suit. He looked just like him. I mean, when I got up there, so they called me up, you know, because I took a duck call

that they auctioned off. And they also auctioned off a little dinner with Al and Lisa down here. And so they raised some money off, even us being, yeah, you get in these auction deals, and they pull you in. I didn't know about it until I got there. And they were like, what would you think about this? And I was like, it could be three frog hunts, Jay. So I felt a little better.

No, I proceed with caution. Because you look, but you get it, you know how it is, you get in the room and it gets exciting and you kind of get into it. But they were great. They raised a lot of money for this school and just salt to the earth. I've been to the West Coast now, I think three times in the last couple of months, and I have thoroughly enjoyed the people there. They are amazing.

So it was a really good trip. But it was cold when I got back. I have fond memories of Idaho because we, Phil and I went on numerous don't. duck hunts on the Snake River. And it's just absolutely stunning. And there, just ducks, they just lighten the river. So I thought about you because we were walking down. There's a little river that's there in Boise.

I can't remember the name of it. It wasn't Snake River because it was small. But I saw probably, we took some pictures, I saw probably 40 or 50 mallards, you know, and they were just chuckling around, they're feeding, you know. And I guess they're, because it's right there pretty near, town. They were wild ducks, but they just, I guess, weren't afraid. Well, exactly. And then there was a bunch of Canadian geese, but I guess they don't even migrate, right? I mean, they just stay up there.

Well, yeah. I mean, they're getting to a point where they quit migraines. Because I saw a lot of them. The full domestication process is underway with Canadian geese, which is unfortunate. Yeah, it is. You got to keep them wild, but that's a story for a different day. So, Zach, you had, I noticed from, Lisa was showing me on Facebook or something, You had an interesting weekend, huh? Yeah, we got, Max got engaged, my oldest son. So we had a big, he did. He's got him a woman that he's going to marry. Is he over 18 years of age?

He's 20. He is 20 now. He does have a boyish look about him. Well, he's got him a little mustache now, so that helps him a little bit. Yeah, we did that. So they came in. Ironically, he brought in his band, him and Layla are in a band called Dasher, the Band. which they're doing in Nashville,

and they're making a run at it. Is it Dasher or Dash of the band? Dasher the band. That's the... Is there a comma or is it just... Just a pause. Just Dash or the band. Okay, it's just a pregnant.

I would have probably picked another one of the reindeer just to be kind of weird. That's not why they... Yeah, they didn't pick it because of the reindeer. They picked it because that's their last name. But, yeah. But, see, that's my immediate thought went... I think Prancer, the van would be.

No, I would have just called. Would you go with Prantz? I'd have said the Roodoffs. And they're like, what is the story behind it? And they said, well, our last team's Tazier. But we didn't want to be too much on the nose. So we went with the Rood-O-Nose. There you go.

That's pretty good, Jay. Well, it's interesting. They got a little band from, I mean, it was here, too, by the way. But they got a little band that they're doing it. They're actually recording their first album with, um um um um lepscom the school they're at as like they have a incubator label there that's working with them so max brings in the band which the fiddle player is amazing uh and she's from idaho so she's from south idaho so we had the same conversation because her and her sister came in and they've got

some land in south out idaho and um i think i think she said the snake river goes right through their property oh she mentioned that jace Oh. Well, I see a connection forming here. What was the, how far did the place go back, you said? 1908. 1908. But if you could find a place that went back pre-1900 and had the Snake River.

Oh, yeah, because then you got a treasure hunt and a duck hunt. So there were a lot of duck hunters. Let's talk later, Zach. I'm on me. I'll find that when I got back. This is not the person he's marrying. This is the fiddle player. This is the fiddle player.

And so the way he set it up was they did this Kickstarter And they're working with Brown Bannister Who did all of Amy Grant's albums His daughter is Ellie Holcomb, Drew and Ellie Holcomb If you listen to the Holcomb's So they got a really, a really good guy That's kind of helping them out So the first thing you got to do

You're going to do a Kickstarter campaign You're going to raise money to do your first album Which they did that was successful And so one of the things they do when you do Kickstarter is you have to give away things and one of the things they gave away for if you gave a certain amount of money was a house show so our friends gave some money to say so annabel thinks it's a house show so max comes in with the band we had all of like our family and friends were all there the church was there a lot of people from our church um and then her

family was there and then so he he's up there just they're doing the thing and then about the fourth song, he sang a song, something about a, and then he stopped before the last verse and said something about high school sweethearts. And he read somewhere that high school sweethearts had the best success rates. And he said, my high school sweetheart is here right over there, points to Annabelle and then ask her to come on stage. He's almost singing this last verse for you. I dedicate this one to you. When she gets up there, he sings the rest of the song, and then he does the proposal. Oh, I thought he was going to sing. Will you marry me?

Well, I was wondering. Did he sing it or did he ask it? He asked. He got down on his knee and asked it. What was her reaction? Was she truly surprised? I don't, you know, you don't know. I mean, these days, I mean, how do you not know?

Because they're always so produced now and stage. But it sounds like he did a pretty good, like, subterfew. I think she didn't know it because I think she said, told us later, she said, I've been like for the last two months, I've been thinking every time we get together, this is going to be the time. Oh, she just comes prepared every single time,

and this was the time when it actually happened. And it was so, so beautiful there. And they're going to make a wonderful couple of the back club. We're tears shed, Zach. We're tears shed among the women. Tears were shed. Mama was crying.

I even teared up. I teared up myself. You're a soft. As you get older, the lower tea, Yeah, more crying. Well, here's the question. Now, that's all great.

We're all warm and fluffy. Who's doing the wedding? In terms of who's going to preach it? Yeah. I don't know. They haven't cut that far yet. That's a good question. I don't know if they'll ask me or not.

I'd rather not do it. Well, I have to say, Zach, I love all your kids. They're amazing. Your children are amazing. I love each and everyone for different reasons. But Max is my favorite because he, he's the only LSU fan out of the crew. Yeah.

He got it. You know, he got it from his time in Louisiana. So he's all, I have to, and the rest of them know it. I send him, I send him LSU stuff. Well, you feel for them because they're like that song that I've been everywhere. You know, so they all are different fans because their life has been a road trip. He got corrupted. He got corrupted.

Al brought, Al bought him, he bought him a LSU shirt. And by the way, the shirts were wearing Poncha. They're a sponsor now, which I love these shirts. But, you know, they have one. Ponscha makes an LSU shirt. I know. That's why one of the things that really impressed me about the company. Why didn't you get us those, Zach?

They sent me a Johnny Cash one because I decided that I've been everywhere, so I'm going all black today. You do. Johnny Cash looked at you. But that's what you did. Very comfortable, too, Zach, by the way. This is my first one to wear. I've actually been wearing these for a long time.

So I love these shirts. I wore them before they were a sponsor. So when they reached out and said, you know, they sponsor Willie too. And they said, and they wanted to sponsor the podcast. I was like, yeah, I'd love to get some of these shirts. But what you've done is you corrupted him at an early age by giving him merch. That's what you did. Well, it wasn't corruption.

It was simply appreciation. I just thought, since I knew his family was going to slide him because they're, this whole mixed group of, I mean, they got everybody in the Florida, Alabama. they're all mixed up. I knew this one child, this savant, was going to need some nourishment from outside the immediate family. And I thought, I'll be that guy. See, that would have been a better name for the band.

They should have just named themselves SEC. And just have representatives of all the state schools. That's what you're requiring. But that is their family because they're all over the place. It's like band slash choir. Yeah. Because they're wonderful singers. Yeah.

Which in these days, you don't have to necessarily be able to sing to be successful. Oh, yeah. With the old auto tuner. Multiple examples of that. Include one at this table. Especially in the country music. But they can't sing. I'll give them that.

Exactly. They can sing. It's like what you said about, you know, I looked up, Reed, you know, is doing worship with, wasn't that with Max at your church? Yeah. No, that was a grandma, my brother. Huh? That was my brother, Grant. Yeah, and you were like, well, I was surprised.

I'm like, look, that dude wakes up singing, and you're like, wow. I mean, some people just got it. Well, somebody told me they were watching the Dove Awards and saw Reed in the audience. Do you know, do you know if he was there? Do you know anything about? He was there. Okay, yeah, they saw him. They saw him on the broadcast.

I said, well, maybe he was doing something. I didn't know. Yeah, he was there. He told me he was sitting right in the mix of all the people. Yeah, he was doing. That's probably why he got on camera because they kept showing the ones, you know, nominees and stuff. Yeah. I was looking at it up.

So they do have a little YouTube channel called Dasher, but they got some of their songs on there. You can check them out on there. But they're going to, I mean, they're doing, they need to get reading there with them. Because Reed has one of the best tenor harmonies. I don't agree with that. I mean, he, that dude can flat out say. And Reed's a platinum artist because y'all had a, I guess you are too, Jace. You're a platinum.

Hey, I was on there. Don't downgrade me and my backup on those, you know, old Christmas. I was on two different songs. We sang a couple of songs where we had. The whole thing. No, the whole thing was Christmas, but I'm saying we sang. I'm saying old traditional songs is what a couple of those is what I participated in. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

It was like a choir in the background. Joy to the world. Yeah, yeah. I was there. They had me low, but I was there. Don't guess it, Zach. It's on the wall. I got, when you go platinum, baby.

They send you a little plaque thing. I'll take a picture. I'll tell you what, when I get home, I'll take a picture of it and you can put it up because Missy put it on the wall. I wouldn't have done that, but because when people say, you have a platinum album, I just point at Missy and say, no, she does. I was just along for the ride. I will say this, y'all had, I don't know what happened to that thing.

We need to resurrect it because that was. was a really, really good Christmas album. I know what happened, and I'm not going to discuss it here. But after a certain amount of time, you have to like... To redo it, you have to add new stuff to it. You have to add a couple new songs. Maybe we could get Prancer to the band or Dash of the Band to add some new songs. No, I called Willie and said, hey, buddy, because we're partners in that venture.

I knew that. And so he said, I'll get back to you on that. I think that was two years ago. But I still. I mean, I'm telling you, it was like really good. I mean, we listened to it because I guess Jill bought it somehow. I don't know how you get it, but. Zach, you can pretty well, with a couple of clicks,

you can be playing the Christmas album right now. And it was called Doug Commander Christmas? I thought it was called Duck the Halls. I have a platinum album, and I can't even remember the name. I couldn't remember what it was. Speaking of Willie, so I read Lisa ran into him, he and Corey last night in the airport in Dallas, we were heading in from Idaho. They were coming from San Diego.

And they had one of those stories where they were late, which is now very prevalent. By the time this air, it's hoped for the government to be working again. But with this shutdown, it's affecting your times on the airplane because they'll just, You just pull over, like, on the runway and wait an hour and a half because there can only be so many planes, though, these hub cities. Or you're like, me, you hit a duck. Or you hit a duck. And so Willie, same thing happened to him coming out of San Diego. And so he did the, he said he didn't run.

What did he call it? He called it a run jog to get to the gate. And it was literally, as he's walking up, the door closed. Yeah. Like literally. And then he said, he's like panting, you know. And Corey said he was really breathing hard. And she said, he was like, I'm here.

And she said, I just closed the flight. Like, oh, no. And he said this guy steps over and he's like, oh, I'll take care of y'all. Because then Willie thought, oh, he's going to reopen the door. And he books him on the late flight, which is the one we were on. Yeah. So the good thing was we had about an hour visit. And then Bella and Jacob, they come strolling up.

They're coming from South Carolina. So it kind of was like y'all's little thing in Atlanta a few weeks ago. Yeah. That was two dozen. of us that day. Yeah, they were six of us last night. Yeah, so that's crazy. I quit running because I had the same... I don't run anymore. I'm just like, you know what, whatever. Well, I had the same encounter. I ran, the door was open and when I came up, she was like fixing to close it. She's like, no, it's too late. I was like, but the door's open. Yeah. And she said, no. So I thought, well,

okay, I said, that settles that. She's like, settles what? I was like, I'll never run again because technically for the record, I made it. And then now you won't let me on because you'll have to do a couple of clicks and get me back seated. So that's it, no running. Well, that's why I was saying that at my event this weekend. I was like, it's by God's grace we're here because air travel is bad enough at every level. Because trust me, I've just been on a run across the country. And now you throw in this government issue that then affects things you can't, the air traffic controls and all that.

It was like, can we think of more ways to make air travel more miserable? Oh, yeah, we got hold my beer and watch this because there's one more we can do. And then we get into this. It's just, I don't know. Well, the moral of their story is if you see me running through the airport, you need to abduct. See, he's chasing. Yeah, you need to trip the guy chasing me because I have deemed that he's fixed to kill me. So, there you go.

Well, that's exciting, Zach. I'm glad. Be sure and give our congratulations to Max. I'll send him a text today. So every time you see them now. Well, I was going to say, every time you see them now, you can use my line, love is in the air. Well, you know what's funny about it, though. I mean, I will say that the world's kind of collide.

Yeah, I said this in previous podcast when I was at, you know, Cole's wedding. Alabama and I was just looking at how well y'all's kids have turned out and then this weekend Mia came in and stayed as well jace and she was there at the house we had we had so many people at the house it was like just it was like Grand Central Station but I did not know mea stayed with you again I yeah she and then I talked to her last week reed stayed with him because he popped up on the podcast yeah yeah I feel like Zach's like secretly trying to hire my family for something I would well I'd tell you who I would He's hired me at one of my daughter.

If Reed wants to do anything with me, like I have Reed up here. He's, that's a sharp guy, man. He's super sharp. But I was sitting there and when I was watching Max, you know, proposed and I was just,

I was thankful. I was so thankful that they, Max and Layla, both, my two oldest, they, what they, the type of people that they chose to spend their, and Max is choosing to spend the rest of his life with their, are people who are unabashedly just proclaiming the kingship of Jesus. And I think that you have two married off as well, Jason.

And that to me is when you, that's what you pray for more than any other thing. You pray for the ones they're going to marry. So it was kind of a moment where you're like, you can take a little sigh of relief, a little breather. So you still worry about stuff. But, I mean, it was, I am thankful that they're choosing people that love you. And we talked about this a few episodes ago when we were talking about Cole's wedding about that idea of marriage. And it is difficult.

It is hard. I mean, it's a hard thing. We say that a lot on here. But there is a mindset and a standard. I think that you try to do generationally to say it's better to be together always and work through whatever it is and deal with whatever it is. And so you mentioned that stat about high school sweethearts. And there is something about growing a marriage together that's powerful. And whether you start that in, you know, super early in life or later in life, it doesn't matter.

The starting point, it's like your Christian walk. It doesn't matter where you start. The idea is you've got a mindset going in. And so I think, and Lisa and I have counseled many couples. We've gone through many difficult things, affairs, infidelity, many hard things. But you link back sometimes, most times. to kind of how they were raised and when you come out of broken homes,

it just becomes easier to walk away. But when you set the standard that we're going to do this together, as a family, I just think it's better. And, you know, our family track record has been great for that. And it doesn't mean you haven't struggled. I mean, Lisa and I have tan them out, so we get it.

Pat Benatar, I think, summed it up. Love is a battlefield. But you got great feeling. We had time many a couple weeks ago to have we got Pat Benito. I don't know, for some reason, these songs are popping in my head. But you know, look, when I first heard that song, I thought, what is she talking about? Yeah. Oh, boy, after about five years of marriage, I thought, okay, Pat, I get it.

Love is a battlefield. But when you actually read the definition of love, 1 Corinthians 13, oh, it is a battlefield. Because none of those things can anyone do perfectly. Yeah. So thus the battle Well, Jay's you don't know this story Since you bought up Pat Benatar But you were supposed to be on the Macy's

Parade Float And had I think it was probably duck season But because it's in January Or no, it's in Thanksgiving Yeah, Thanksgiving And so I took your place No, I remember this coming up, Al I did know

My wife come in there and like, hey, you know Macy's parade And you said no Well, I just said I don't do parades was my first response. Then she said, I think I said, unless it's some kind of parade for Jesus, she's like, well, it's not that. I said, well, no, I'm out. And she's like, no, no, this is opportunity, you know, is all this.

And then I said, when is it? And I was like, it's during duck season? It's Thanksgiving Day. Like, love is a battlefield because I said, no, I'll be attending that. So I took your spot, and I was excited to get to do it because I, I, Lisa and I watch it every so often. But we get on, so they have the, it's super colds, like 10 degrees, Thanksgiving Day in New York, and they put all the, quote-unquote, celebrities in these buses so you can stay warm until it's time to get on the float.

Because, I mean, it's fixing to be cold. This sounds like fun. Oh, it was not fun. But it was exciting. And we get on the bus. Of course, you're sharing it, you know, they have just one bus for a few people. So there was some other people on there where Pat Benatar was on our bus. Oh, wow.

See, I would have had to say, let's just kick it off. But here's what's funny, Jay, you're going to love this. So she's sitting in the very back, and we're in the very front. Then there was another group kind of in the middle. I don't know who they were. I didn't recognize they were Broadway or something. And so then we get word that Pat Benatar is not happy because she's having to share the bus with the Duck Dice TV. Oh, shit.

She was not a bad. Rejected by Pat Betetzer. And I was like, oh, that hurt me. because I love her music. Was this during the time of cell phones? Yeah, I guess, maybe. I would have had, when I heard that, I think I would have tried a peace treaty.

And I would have played. That's a heartbreaker. It was because, look, you should have played love as a battlefield because this is it. Well, we love you. We saw her back there and I thought, would it be bad if we went back to get a picture and then the person goes up and says,

yeah, don't do that because she's not happy of a bit on the bus with you. Oh, that's hilarious. You tell her it was a heartbreaker? I told her that I love rock and roll. Put another dime in the jukebox. No, that was a pat. Hit me with your best shot. That was not Pat Benica.

Yeah, it was. Put another dime of the jukebox. Of course it was. Wait a minute. Come on. I love rock and roll. Put another diamond in the jukebox, baby. That's probably wrong.

Did she do hit me with your best shot? That's Joan Jett. Oh, Joan Jett, sorry. That's fixed a sec. We don't even know who she is. That's what you should have said to her. I should have said, oh, is that Joan Jeb back there? Yeah, Joan, I'm a big fan.

Joan, I love your work. You're so awesome. Well, I will say, I will say this. You reminded me of a story, though, because, you know, I'm a golfer. Maybe it was Joan Jed on the button now. I came up. You know, I'm a golfer. If we're going to rail her for rejecting you, we need to.

Jay's is maybe unsure of myself. Yeah, disclaimer. It was Pat. It was Pat Benito. You're sure that's the one he rejected him. I'm sure Pat Benetter rejected that. I don't have my phone. But Joan Jett, I do like her stuff too.

I was going to send a text to Missy. She would remember if Pat Benettoner was on the back of the bus. Yeah, because Missy was with us that. But I don't have my phone. But I was just going to tell it. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry, Pat. If you're a listener. Except my apology.

You've gone too far with this story. But I once got asked to play at the Masters. by Bubba Watson, you know, the Masters. Not at the Master's. You mean Augusta. Augusta, yeah. Because they wouldn't let you in the Masters because you would be like a junior. I mean, I didn't figure most people would know what Augusta, Georgia was.

So I was going to say. Well, you said invited me to the Masters. I was like, Jay, you must have been playing really good. The Masters. Yes, Augusta. And I was like, awesome. I was so excited. I was like, yes.

So he's like, you know, here's the date. Well, he sent the date. I looked on my phone. It's opening dead duck season. Oh. I said, immediately. I just sent him a text and said, no, I'm out. He's like, what?

I was like, that's opening day of duck season. So appreciate it. Now that's conviction. Are there any other dates? And he's like, if you turn this down, I'm never asking you again. Which is so Bubba Watson. Yeah, and he didn't. So I missed it.

You know, I could have played. but I'm not missing opening down duck season. Well, Willie has played it. Yeah, yes. And when he was on... He has more connections. When he was on number two, he said they came out in a golf cart, and he had his bandana on, and they had a hat.

And they gave him the hat, and he said, oh, thank you. And they were like, sir, there's no bandana. I said Augusta. In other words, Willie was like, oh, they came off the way out there to give me a hat. It was like, no, wear this, please. So, there you go. I think that's enough nonsense for one day. Playing the role of Phil would be Jason today.

You made it through that. You made it to the Bible studies. Congratulations. We're glad you're still here. I felt like I needed that because I've studied for two days. I actually looked up. He said you were overstudied. After a month and of just going every day somewhere.

And the last couple of days I went into a cave and studied for a couple of days. It was actually kind of nice. So we're in, we've made it to John 19 finally. we've been, we've kind of been, as you guys know from our study, we've kind of been

given these high air views I call them, 30,000 foot views of what all this means in terms of Old Testament it being prophesied about because when you get into the weeds of what happened,

it's a bleak happening. I mean, this is a rough slog of text. It is. Just because of the nature of it, I mean, just the abuse and everything goes along with it.

It kind of hit me in that vein that, you know as much as uh as i study with people i've noticed it's kind of two two opposite ends of people i study with it's like people who are new to the faith this is exciting they just can't get enough yeah or on the other end it's people who have been in different churches for so long they're just frustrated with kind of the organizational, denominational view of what Christianity has become, you know, in America. And so they get into other things that it's like the thrill of the simple story of Jesus is gone.

It's kind of fascinating. I'm not sure why that is, but it just seems like over and over, because I've had a lot of Bible studies in the last couple weeks, just one right after another. and I think when you get to this section of John, it's not about theology and doctrine. It just tells the story. And we're connecting all the dots from what was prophesied and about the kingdom and this discussion with the king

and about rulers, God against the gods, or this kind of spiritual forces of evil that Jesus was going to disarm. and it's just a it's a story that you're you're just absolutely shocked by that this happened because as you read this you're like I mean we believe it is the creator of the universe in human form but people who are reading this for the first time they're like if this was the creator of the universe in human form how embarrassing yeah for what happens to him. Exactly.

I mean, this is just absolutely crazy. But it made me think of, and I want to read this before we read John 19, because Jesus is dealing with these human authorities, people in power from the Jewish side and the Roman side here. But a verse that we bring up often, 1 Corinthians 2, 7, 1 Corinthians 2, 7, and I think you should keep this in mind as we read, or verse 6. We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature. This is Paul to the Corinthians, but not the wisdom of this age or the rulers of this age who are coming to nothing.

No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began, which is exactly what his prayer. referenced a couple of times. Remember when Jesus said, I pray that I'll have the glory return that I have with you before the beginning of creation. But then watch verse 8. None of the rulers of this age understood it. For if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory. And so this is right after Paul was making the point in chapter 2 and verse 2 because he was frustrated that some of the church in Corinth were following other people besides Jesus, which is kind of what I brought up about the denominational fragmentation of Christian church.

You kind of see this similar thing. You get frustrated and you go follow somebody else. And the danger there, Jays, is you do what a lot of the Corinthians were doing. So then you just tend to punt the whole situation. Want the whole thing. You know, it's just, well, it ain't worth it. Absolutely. And so I wanted to read that First Corinthians too, too,

because I think this really, it helped me, and all the study I did the last two days, just come and I just came back to the simple story of, here's Jesus who did everything right. And this, this, you have people, multiple people slapping you in the face, making fun of you, dressing you up as a king, And all this, you know, acting like these leaders acting like he's just a peasant.

He's crazy. And there have all the power to give you life or give you death. So look at 1st Corinthians 2, 2. It says, for I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. I mean, it's such a statement that he's just going back to the simple story of what happened. Of course, he goes on to say that famous statement about the rulers not understanding because this was ultimately their defeat, as in the spiritual forces of evil having control and power,

which was predicted many times. But I wanted to say that before we read, because you don't want to be distracted by just because we're given the big picture of the simple story of how this happened. Yeah. And I think it's the same thing. You could make the same case for him being born as a baby and then going through as a toddler and a young boy and then a teenager and all the way through his life. There was a purpose in that as well.

He had to be fully human. So he lived a human life to be like his brother's in every way. Well, in this case, now he's about to die, but he's going to die a criminal's death. because that's what this, these were, these were, people, this was reserved for criminals, insurgents, you know, insurrectionist. Yeah, and there were laws about this. And they were being violated, especially from the Jewish perspective. Right.

They were applying the law, but then they were violating it. Even just having this thing happen at night and all this, there were little, you know, verses in the Torah that negated some of their actions. Oh, I think when I was researching that, They broke 18 of their own laws of the Sanhedron, just in how they process this night before this is happening. So, I mean, yeah, they were failing all over the place. Which shows you there was a whole different agenda, and it was about power. He was a threat because people followed him, and they wanted to take him out.

I mean, this is mafia hit. But it's done from religious leaders. I mean, it is literally the first, you know, Godfather movie is basically what's happening. And what's crazy is this guy's not only innocent of the crimes. He's innocent of any crime. There's no crime committed, which has always used this point in arguments, just with people who kind of have a system of law, where they're not realizing that Jesus redeemed us from the law, not just from sin, but from the law itself,

having to have some kind of code that you have to perform and work your way to God and always use that, that no one has ever kept the law, no adult, has kept the law flawlessly. And so you get into verses like James 210, where it's such an obscure verse, but it says, whoever keeps the whole law

and yet stumbles at one point is guilty of breaking all of it. And you're like, what does that mean? That means you cannot base your salvation on keeping the law. That won't work. That's why Jesus came,

and you can get into why that is, but just making the point. So then I think what happens is people come up with their own doctor, about this and they're like, well, Jesus never sin because he was God. Like somebody will come up with some kind of doctrine saying, well, you know, Jesus maybe didn't become fully human. Yeah.

And or vice versa. They're not realizing that. And they'll make points like, well, the only reason he never sin because he was God. But he became a human. You have verses like Hebrews 4. He was tempted in every way just as we are yet was without sin. Why is that in the Bible? Why tempt him if he could not have sin?

He just chose not to. He fulfilled the law, became the faithful Israelite, to redeem Israel, and thus the whole world. Well, it's the same thing that came up about, well, because when he resurrected, it was like, well, he didn't really die. I mean, just he passed out. And then he woke up, and then all of a sudden he comes out, which the interesting name at that is,

and we'll get to that and we get to the resurrection part of this text, is that John was there for all of it. John was at the foot of the cross with Mary. Well, there's a debate on that, too. It's like, well, why would they let? Because all women and John. Well, we assume if it's the disciple who Jesus love. Who Jesus love is John, which it never exactly says that,

but we assume it's John. So the scholars believe that it's because, because John was young. Yeah, and I tend to agree because he was not a threat. You know, so he's the younger brother. His older brother was the other fisherman. So we're going to get to that because when John gets to the resurrection, he's like, hey, I was there.

I saw it. That's what I'm saying. I think he witnessed the death, and then he witnessed the resurrection for a reason. So it's the same thing. It is hard to put your mind around it because we want to err on one of the two sides of either Christ wasn't fully God or Christ wasn't fully man. And I think that's what we do wrestle with that. That is a hard thing to understand.

But the biblical teaching is that Christ was, the fullness of deity was pleased to dwell in bodily form. That's Paul's argument. Like the fullness of God was in the body of Jesus. But the body of Jesus was fully human. And so like that Philippians 2 passage says that two, that he was in very nature God, but he didn't consider equality with God,

something to be grasped, emptied himself. Doesn't mean he emptied himself of his divinity. He doesn't empty himself of his divinity. I think the language that Paul uses in Philippians, too, is helpful. It just says he takes on the nature of humanity. He takes on the nature of a servant. Which means he became a human. That's right.

Yeah. Yeah, he takes it on. He doesn't get rid of one. He just takes on the other. other, which is the, that's the, that's, the word is, like when you're condescending, you know, that the old joke is, I'm being condescending. That means I'm talking down to you. You know, like, but it just means you're coming down to that, to someone else's level. So God condescends in the sun. But in his divinity, he's still fully God. It's just in his

incarnated state, in his fleshly state, there was limitations on Christ. And he says this. He says, I don't even know, you know, only the Father knows when these things are going to take place. So showing his limitation in his flesh on omniscience, he was limited in his omnipresence in the flesh, meaning that Christ embodied couldn't be in a lot of different places at the same time. He can only be in one place at one time. So I think that you're, and then ultimately you're seeing, though, what he's doing here. The reason why this matters is because of the moment we're at in John 19. I mean, he's going to become the lamb.

He's going to become the Passover lamb. He's going to be slaughtered. He's going to let people not just get their hands on him. He's going to submit himself and become obedient to death on a cross, which will be the vindication or the payment for our sin, which will then be vindicated through the resurrection. Let me read it, this text in our last section of the podcast, and then we're going to get into it deeper on the next podcast, because in verse five, And I've already mentioned this before.

Entie Wright made a big deal out of verse five when Pilate says in proclamation, here is the man. You know, as he's standing there and they've dressed him in this stuff, that that was the recognition of Daniel, which we've talked about about the son of man. But let me read at least down to 16. Because this is kind of the last bit of the trial. I call it trial of pilot part two because he's already sent him off, tried to punt the football. It hasn't happened. Now he winds up back with him again. So here's his next idea.

We're just going to give him the half death, which is what's good, this idea of Roman flogging. The pilot took Jesus and had him flogged. So this was his answer to finally do something. He still didn't want to kill him, but he thought, well, if I just abuse him and flog him, then this will make this bloodthirsty crowd happy. The soldiers twisted together, a crown of thorns,

put it on his head. They clothed them in a purple robe, and went up to him again and again, saying, hell, king of the Jews, and they struck him in the face. So this is humiliation, and this is all part of the Romans and what they did. The idea was that we're going to humiliate you, we're going to make sure that you're in agony, you know, all these things that are going to happen. Once more, a pilot came out, so now it's like, okay, look, I'm bringing him out to you to let you know I find no basis for a charge against him. Again, he cannot find wrongdoing in Jesus.

when Jesus came out wearing the crown of thorns in the purple robe, Pilate said to them, here is the man. And Entie Wright makes the point that, you know, in Roman culture, they had all these statues of people that all these emperors and all this, and this was kind of that moment from Pilate's perspective. As soon as the chief priest and their officials saw him, they shouted, crucify, crucify. But Pilate answered, you take him in crucify them.

As for me, I find no basis for a charge against him. The Jews and sister, we have a law, and according to the law, he must die, because he claimed to be the son of God, which is interesting that they would go there. So you got the son of man, son of God claims. When Pilate heard this, he was even more afraid. And we've talked about that, and we talked about his wife having the vision. And he went back inside the palace, and he says, where do you come from? He asked Jesus, but Jesus gave him no answer. Do you refuse to speak to me, Pilots? said, don't you know I have power either to free you or to crucify you? And now Jesus is going to speak up. You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore, the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin, which is talking about the Jews. From then on, Pilate tried to set Jesus free, but the Jews kept shouting, if you let this man go, you were no friend of Caesar. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar. When Pilate heard, this, he brought Jesus out, he set him on the judge's seat at a place known as the stone pavement, which is Aramaic and Kabatha. It was the day of preparation of Passover week about the sixth hour.

So this is time when they're slaughtering the lambs, which John throws that in for a reason, I think. Here is your king, Pilate said to the Jews, but they shouted, take him away, take him away, crucify. Shall I crucify your king? Pilate asked Jay's, to your point, it's just incredulous, right? We have no king but Caesar, the chief priest, answer, which think about that. I mean, what a blasphemy that is. Finally, Pilate handed him over to be crucified. So I'll stop there in terms of, you know, this kind of, the last thing, finally, Pilot. And then one of the texts we read Jason, I think it's the Matthew text, he washes his hands at this point and says, this is on you.

I'm washing my hands of this whole thing. And they said, oh, yeah, we'll take it. In fact, his blood is on us and our children. I found something interesting. I don't know if I have time to do this right, but where it says, you know, they put the crown of thorns, which is interesting in one way,

is that the first appearance of thorns in the Bible is after sin. Genesis 3. Yeah, and it was a curse put on. And so here's now, Jesus who is launching what I would say is new creation, you know, after what he's fixed to do happens, then that phrase starts coming up in the letters to the churches. If anyone is in Christ, 2ndthians 5, he is a new creation.

The old is gone, the new has come. But also, when I, this, the way AI is so rapid. advancing, you know, you can now just like type in, give me the Greek literal translation. It pops up there way better than what I was doing with the Bible Hub. I mean, it is just crazy. And so I was checking it out, and I was looking at some of these verses. And so this obscure verse where it says in John 198, where he's wearing the crown, Where is that? Is that in eight?

Five. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, 18.5. 19.5. When Jesus came out, yeah, 195. When Jesus came out wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe, I forgot why I looked this verse up. Oh, oh, because I was looking into here's the man.

Yeah. Because what a statement. Exactly. Because immediately you go back to that, you go back to that in the beginning, you know, was the word, words with God, and the word became flesh. So here's the man. And which I think the opposite of that would be, you know, the flesh didn't become word. I mean, because we tend to, once again, look at all this from a theological, we're studying this.

But, and just think back to the closing moments here. He didn't kind of give him a philosophical speech on what he was fixing to do. He gave him a meal. He washed their feet. Then he said a prayer. I mean, it's also practically human on what led up to this point. But what's crazy is I was looking up something else, but I saw that word wearing, and I just clicked on it for some unknown reason. And that words only used six times, the Greek word.

And what I discovered was fascinating when I went to First Corinthians. Corinthians 15 because two of the six times is mentioned there. I was telling Missy about this last night. I went in there, I was like, you're not going to believe what I found. And I went through what I want to go through, and I've introduced it, and I know we're going to run out of time. But in my mind, I thought, there's nothing about wearing in First Corinthians is 15. I mean, there's a few chapters in the Bible that I know, like the whole chapter. And First Corinthians is 15.

as one of them. I was like, nowhere in there. Did it talk about anything about wearing? I was thinking where, you know, it says we must clothe when the perishable has clothed itself with the impertrial. So I was like, oh, that must be the clothes. No, that's not it. So I want to read this.

And when we come back to our next podcast, I'll show you what I discovered. But where that word is used is in verse 49. And the reason I didn't see it is because they don't. this is the only place where they don't put wear because when you look up the Greek word which is forayho it can mean bear or wear because think about it they put the crown on him right so he would bear it but he was also wearing it right you know even your clothes you're bearing them if somebody gave you a a shirt three times too big you would wear it but you would also have to bear it because it's too big that's kind of

what the word means. What I found is fascinating, so I want to read this verse in verse 48 and 49. As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth, and as is the man from heaven, so also are those are of heaven. And we're going to read around this when we come back. And just as we have born or wear the likeness of the earthly man, which we do bear this, because we have problems. So shall we wear, says bear, the likeness of the man from heaven. Oh, oh, yeah. It's going to be, ooh.

I like where you're going with that. This is going to be good. So here's your assignment before the next podcast. Go read First Corinthians 15 because that's where we're going to read the whole chapter. Read the whole chapter. And that's where we're going to be. I like where this is going to go. It's one of the most exciting things I've ever discovered.

randomly, in quotation, Martin. Random. Because he wore the thorns, we get to wear his likeness. And trying to wrap your head around that is very exciting. It's a recreation moment. All right, we'll get there next time.

Unashame. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.