Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1209 | John Luke Terrorizes Al & Zach With His Odd Pet & Moses Throws a Hissy Fit Over a Golden Calf

Episode Date: November 14, 2025

Al and Zach lose their composure when John Luke walks onto the set with a surprise introduction to his pet mascot, sparking a favorite memory of Phil comparing himself to the late Steve Irwin, the Crocodile Hunter. The guys then examine Moses’ response to the Israelites building a golden idol while he was in God’s presence receiving the Ten Commandments. Al adds that Indiana Jones’ treatment of the Ark of the Covenant in Raiders of the Lost Ark might be one of the few things Hollywood ever got right about God’s power and beauty. In this episode: Exodus 20, verse 20; Exodus 24; Exodus 32; Exodus 33; Exodus 34; 2 Corinthians 3; Hebrews 11; Hebrews 12; John 14; John 16; 1 Corinthians 6 Today's conversation is about lessons 8 of The Exodus Story taught by Hillsdale Professor Justin Jackson. Take the course with us at no cost to you! Sign up at ⁠http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/⁠ More about The Exodus Story: Explore God’s mercy as he leads Israel out of slavery in Egypt. Exodus is a central narrative of the Bible. It recounts the moment that God reclaims Israel as his people, rescues them from slavery in Egypt, and establishes the Ten Commandments to guide their moral and religious freedom as an independent society. In “The Exodus Story,” Professor of English Justin Jackson picks up the biblical narrative where his course on Genesis ended. Join Professor Jackson in learning about the nature of God’s mercy, human freedom, and the relationship between the divine and man. Enroll today to discover the beauty of God reclaiming the Israelites through his mercy and love in “The Exodus Story.” Sign up at ⁠http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/ Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/at-home-with-phil-robertson/id1835224621 Listen to Not Yet Now with Zach Dasher on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or anywhere you get podcasts. Chapters: 00:00-08:49 A large reptile joins the guys on set 08:50-17:04 Self-worship is the human condition 17:05-26:26 Israel’s fast fall into idolatry 26:27-33:00 The hissy fit of Moses & facing consequences 33:01-41:08 Indiana Jones shows the terror of God’s glory 41:09-48:36 Leaders come & go, so prep the next generation — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? All right, we're back in our Exodus studied missing one guy who stepped out onto what? Yeah, just missing one guy. Yeah, we're missing one guy, one guy named John Luke. Maybe he'll come back. Tom Luke is always a little blakey. We're always breaking the fourth wall around here. Joe Blue. Joe Blue. It's our Friday with Hillsdale episode.

We are going through the book of Exodus. If you are not taking this course with us, you are missing out. So stop what you're doing. Go back and go to Unashamefor Hillsdale.com. Take all of the Exodus courses. We're in the very last part where we're going to talk about the glory of God.

There he is. Come on in, John Luke has now joined us with this. Everyone meet Commander. Commander. What? What's on his face? I feel like, I don't know if I like this, what's going on here.

John Luke, if you're listening, has brought in a reptile lizard, which I don't like the whole. This is your golden caption. This is... I don't think he's happy. Commander. He does, yeah.

He's sensing something from my side of the table. He's very skinned. I don't like what's going on here. This is serious. He might have eaten a spider. This feels very... This is got a bearded dragon. A bearded dragon.

Oh, dude. You see that tongue? What's hanging out of his mouth? He'll bite. He'll lick you for sure. He might bite. He will lick me? Is he aggressive?

He's not aggressive, but... Just lick me? He's never bitten me, but he might, Mike Christian. Just lick me? Do you enjoy this animal? Just lick me? He kind of just chills. He just kind of sits in there.

Just lick me? Ow, what do you think? He's getting mad. I feel like this is... See, part of what sin is... The sin is unnatural. This is unnatural to have a pet reptile. This is a part of creation.

The bearded dragon is in the reptile family. How fast are these things? Pretty fast. If he run... Yeah, he'll follow you around. Like, if I put him on the floor of my office, he'll follow me around. Probably. Don't let him like that.

Sponsborough Hill's dinner. Ah, he liked it? He wants some coffee? No, he doesn't like it. Yeah. He could be a girl, too. I actually have no idea. I adopted him, and said he was a boy named a commander.

So he was a rescue? He was a rescue. He was a rescued beard of drink. He was a rescue beard of drink. Where's the beard? There's no beer. Well, you see the little underneath. Yeah, he'll, he'll.

What's hanging off of his mouth? That thing has to have some kind of, ooh. If we went back, like, he's got to have some DNA from some of the old school. No, yeah, he's old school. Yeah, y'all want to maybe. Okay, John Lake's brought in his, whoa. Hey, ha. Bye, Commander.

Not a fan. Commander. What do you think about that? Could he be our mascot? No, he could not be our mascot. I think he could be our mascot. I do not like reptiles at all. Hey, what is it about it?

Is it go back to the garden? And here we are in Genesis and Exodus. I felt a extreme level of anxiety. Yeah, it's something. Did you? Yeah, I didn't like it. Did you have any desire? I would never have touched that thing.

I wouldn't do what Kristen was doing. Huh? Did you have to bring yourself to touch that, the lizard? No. Well, if you like, he's like, it's like, his skin is, it's like pokey. It's, you know, it feels, like, strong. What I'm saying is, was there anything in you that was like, I don't want

lizards and snakes are different if that was a snake I would not have been one to fool with it but John Leipai likes do you like snakes too yeah like snakes too

there's a create because if you like a reptile is there anything in you when you see it though you're like no anxiety you're like you're kind of trepidious about it

or you're just like I mean there's a healthy fear of wild animals but he's not a wild animal there's nothing this just feels like I'm picking up a hamster

and petting it or like a scaly hamster I wouldn't think of my hamster they're too rat I'm more scared of a hamster than of the beard dragon of the lizard. Yeah, I don't like snakes. Mary Kate did ban them from the house.

I feel like that's why he's here at the office. I honestly feel like that's the kind of stuff the Egyptians were into. They were into pet, pet snakes and lizards. Yeah, you need to eat. Well, there was the bronze snake. That's what I'm saying. There's like, there's a, yeah, you look at the evil, all the reptile features of a lot of their old. Even like the things that Pharaoh would wear look like reptiles.

Well, you got to remember, too. So Jay spent two podcasts on Unashamed talking about the history of the chicken. So we've had a lot of cars. We've had it. But that was the first. We never had a live animal on the podcast. That is a first, you have now broken. There's a fourth wall and then there's whatever that was.

Because we just broke that down. Wait until I tell Jay's tomorrow we record Unashamed that there was a bearded dragon. Licking your, are you going to drink that coffee now? Licking his coffee cup. He didn't lick it. He didn't. No, he tried. He didn't quite get there.

He didn't get on the, he didn't lick the cup. He didn't look to the cup. Just in case. I don't have to agree. I'm listening. He carried like diseases. Let's go back and, we'll, I think. No, he came short.

He came short. He came short. I don't know. He short-legged. I've got some pets. A lizard tongue over there. He short-licked it. I had so many wild pets when I was growing up, though.

I remember that. Rats and geckos and squirrels and all that stuff. He was like he was a, who was the guy that used to be on the late... Ace Ventura? Well, I was going for Steve Erwin. I'm not. I was saying what Christian likes with Adam Sandler. Those movies are funny.

Ace Fentura. Yeah. Dumb and dumber? I love that. Did you like Wayne's World? It's pretty good. Yeah. A little far.

Did you like Wayne's World? I loved Wayne's World. But I was a huge SNA. You know, Facian, but it was funny. What was that? vacation? I look, I've heard of that one. Yeah, like Chevy Chase.

Oh, Christmas vacation? The original vacation was like 20 years before Christmas. So, no, I was talking about the guy. There used to be a guy that would be on all the late night show, started on Tonight Show, and he would be have exotic animals, and he would bring them on the late night. Was it Irwin? No, that's the, that's the, uh, the, uh, the Gator Man.

Yeah. No, this guy was Jim something. And he was from the Columbus Zoo. I'll never forget it from Ohio. And he would come on the Carson. he would always have some kind of crazy animal. And then Carson, they had the, just what we just did. But we did it.

We just reacted. That would be the new bit. That's a classic TV right there. That would be a new bit. Yeah. Well, you know, your granddad and your father broke the mold on that whole apparatus when he, there was a Duck Commander video that came out in the 90s when they were doing, when y'all were doing the videos.

It's one of my favorite scenes just because it was so fill and so hilarious. But he's got to. is AR-15, and he's creeping through the swamps down here by where the hunt lands at. We actually showed this at the funeral, I think. I mean, we did show this, yeah. And so he's creeping up on this. There's this big cotton-mouth water moggous and it's cold up around the base of a cypress tree. And feels like, but he's talking like he's whispering.

He's like talking about the animal. We're out here in the wilderness. He got in the wilderness. And this is what you call whatever, you know, the scientific name. He had the watermogs. Yeah, it's hilarious. and he's like, the crocodile man, he's talking about the crocodile hunter.

And he's like, he looks at the camera, he's like, you know the difference between me and the crocodile hunter? And then all of a sudden he goes, he had Lowe's in AR-15. And the snakes just writhing

with all these bullets going into it, you know, just a hail of gunfire. I was like, classic feel, yeah, the poisonous snakes were not, he wasn't too friendly to those guys.

So, but you're like Steve Irwin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Would you try to pick up a cotton mouth? No, I mean, I've killed a lot of snakes. That was actually with the off-hill.

That was in my main jobs when I was out there in the summer. We just drive around. He barely even slowed down and just shoot. You're just shooting from the back of the Polaris. And when you were a tri-chi-o-a-proved, you probably had to, because you run it. There's a ton of chockers out there. Oh, yeah. And it's a safety issue.

No, I do. I kill one. Wasn't there a coral snake at camp? Yeah. Yeah. Which are in their, they did. do have them here, but you don't... Or you know who else killed a snake?

Yeah. The Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. That's true. He crushed his head. It's true. But his heel was Bruce. If what we just said, you guys say, that's too far,

it is biblical that the... If you want to do what Jesus did, you've got to be a snake killer. Remember, unashamed for Hillsdale.com. All right, Al. You wanted to set it up because I said it up. We left out the golden cap part.

So we came to the end. And we just briefly went through the Ten Commandments. Obviously, it was an important moment, but we understand the nature of it. So he gives these commandments. And then he says something interesting after he does this. And even Moses says to the people in verse 20. Were you at what chapter? 20, 2020.

Do not be afraid. God has come to test you so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning, which is interesting that he framed it that way. the people remained at a distance, of course, while Moses approached the thick darkness where God was. So here's what he tells him in that. He said, tell the Israelites this. He was already given them the law. You have seen for yourselves that I have spoken to you from heaven. Do not make any gods to be alongside me. So he's going to stamp out this idea that somehow there's a coexistence of gods and him. Do not make for yourselves gods of silver or gods of gold. And remember, they just had a fresh influx

of silver and gold from their plunder out of Egypt. All blessing, by the way. All blessing. Make an altar of earth. And then he goes into the, you were going to mention that part. Yeah. Well, then he goes into,

if you make me an altar of stone, you shall not built it out of hewn stone, for if you will, your tool on it, you'll profane it. And I think what he's saying here is, I will provide the altar. Yeah. He's going back to when they're in Egypt

and saying, there you built, you can't build something good enough for me. Right. You can't make something out of it. have bricks or stone that's good enough to sacrifice. I'll provide. Because you'll still want to take the credit. You'll take the credit. Dr. Jackson made a point about it. One of the stones it could, I mean, one of the tools that could have been was a sword. Remember when he talked about that idea that somehow you're wielding that by your hand. But I think your point is even bigger,

Don Luke, that it's any two. It's anything you would fashion by your own hand. He said, when you build an altar, you build it out of what I made, not out of what you made, which was the point of that. So that's going to set up 302. Well, too. I think it's a lot. I think It's also when he talks about this altar, it's interesting. Look at how he ends in verse, how he ends chapter 20, about this altar that he instructs them to the building. Every place where I cause my name to be remembered, there we go again, about the whole idea of the name of Yahweh, right?

That's the continual theme here. Every place where I cause my name to be remembered, I will come to you and bless you. So you see, again, this is temple language where God man meet. if you make me an altar of stone, you shall not build it out of few stones for if you wield your tool on it, you profane it. And then the last part is interesting. And if she, and you shall not go up by the steps to my altar that your nakedness be not exposed on it. And you read that, you think, man, there's something here that's reminiscent about Genesis chapter one, two, and

that whenever they sin for the first time when they actually ate the fruit, when they left the temple, so to speak, and they ate the fruit for the sake of the fruit, what was the result of that? That they realized they were naked and they ran and hid. They were naked and ashamed. And so there is the idea that God's presence now post-Sem, your nakedness can't be in front of him.

That's why whenever God saw them in Garden of Eden, and they said, well, he said, What are you guys doing? Well, we were naked, so we hid. And then his question was, who told you you were naked? Did you eat the tree that I told you not to eat of? And they're like, well, then they get in the whole blame game. But notice what God doesn't do in Genesis.

He doesn't say, well, guys, it's okay to be naked. I made you that way. He did make him that way. It was okay to be naked, but God doesn't say it's okay to be naked. What he doesn't say, he says, you're covering will not be suitable. And so he sheds the blood. then you have sacrifice, and then you have a new covering that God provides. But he does at least, God acknowledges you need covering now.

Now you need covering. Because you're seeing something differently. You're seeing it differently now, and you're rebellious. And so the same thing's happening here is he's just continuing that idea of covering. He's acknowledging that this is not going to work the way it is. You've got to have covering, but this is the way it's going to have to be. And we know, and we even know this, again, so many of these. These things are illustrated in your own family.

You guys have little ones. I mean, there's a point in time where your little ones, they all bade together, and you change them, and they run around naked. And, you know, it's just they don't ever think of that about it. You don't think anything about it. It's a house. It's a house full of kids. And then there's some point in time where all of a sudden, that's not okay anymore.

And nobody, it's not like it's on your calendar. It's not like March 25th, you know, or whatever. It's just like, you know at some point, do you like that call it? So you know at some point there's just a time where it's different. It changes. They change. You know, they begin to grow or even they will start feeling self-conscious. Some kids are more modest than others.

That's the idea. That's kind of the human condition every since the garden. So we even understand that in our own families. We realize that we see that. This happens. What changed from when it was just a little innocent kid? Right now, Pearl, my youngest granddaughter, the other day, she wanted to go swimming.

And I said, well, do you have a swimsuit over her? And she's seven. And she said, no, but I can still have skinny dip. And I said, what do your folks think about that? She said, they don't care. I said, all right, I'll be up here on the porch. And she goes out there naked as a Jay Bird, gets in the pool for 15 minutes. Doesn't think a thing about it.

Never thought a thing about it. She's still young enough to where she didn't imagine. But there will be a point in time, trust me, where you won't have to not tell her to do it. She would never do it. And so that idea somehow of that change and how you think in your point was so well taken because that's what we're beginning to see this idea that they're starting to understand some things. It's just amazing how quickly they seem to turn it back one way or the other. Because you remember Moses goes up on the mountain to get all these instructions about the tabernacle,

and that's what's happening in these ensuing chapters. But it's spread out over 40 days. But you think about it, 40 days is not. not a long, I mean, that's not super long. No. I mean, you know, they've been generationally enslaved. And then all of a sudden it's like when the people saw that Moses was too, so long

and coming down, this is in 32. From the mountain, they gathered around air and said, come make us gods. I mean, he hasn't been up there. In 40 days? Yeah, all of them. You forget. You said, man, you forget quickly. I mean, that's a month and 10 days. Yeah. And it's like,

and now of a sudden it's like, yep, so we're off of the whole, you know, L. Weem and God Almighty. Exactly right. We're off of that now. And then it's like, as for this fellow Moses, who brought us out of Egypt, we don't know what happened to him. Well, the crazier part about them wanting other gods is that when they make the calf,

then Moses comes down and Aaron's like, I don't, they just threw it in the fire. To me, that's the crazier part versus the people being like, we want other gods. You know, I wasn't sure what to do. They gave me all this gold. I thought, I'll just get rid of it in a fire. And the next day, you know, it's a big calf. Well, when the covenants confirm, when Moses is on Mount Sinai, Moses comes down because God gives him the instruction,

and he gives them the book, what's called the Book of the Covenant, and he gives them the Ten Commandments. Moses comes down, and he gives all this to the people. And I love their response in Exodus 24. They say it, I think they say it twice. I know they say it once, because I'm reading one of it, but I think they say it twice. All the people answer with one voice,

you think, man, these people are all in accord. And they said, all the words the Lord has spoken, we will do. And I think they say it again down here as well. They say all the words of the Lord that the Lord has spoken, we will do. And so they're committed to the obedience until they weren't. And literally, for just a short period of time, but they were all in at first. Because they're seeing that cloud and they're seeing that power of God and they're afraid because they're like, this is like a storm.

The word is like that tempest or tempest rolls in, and it's like whatever is consuming this mountain. It is pretty powerful. Which don't forget to sign up and take our course. Unashamed for Hillsdale.com is where you go to get that. You made the point we were talking in between podcasts, Christian, about motivation of love versus anything else really and how that's, from a God perspective,

that's always his first motivation. But it shows you how powerful the motivation of fear is in this context or even anger. You know, because you think about every time their election rolls around, what do you start seeing negative ads? People got to get mad. You got to hate the other part. You know, that's kind of we drive into this fear, anger, that's how you win. It's success. But we realize the toxic nature of it because then once you, then you can't govern.

Because we've already, we hate those guys. And it works either way. And so you see here this idea, they were motivated by their fear as long as the fire there and there's no. But the minute Moses goes up and having a little convo with God, it only takes 40 days. And it's like, our fearless leader, this fellow, who's he? And what is Moses doing whenever they're doing this? You got to keep in mind, Moses is receiving instruction on building a tabernacle.

For the presence of God to be there. So they're up there like this whole thing. Moses is like, he's being with God. He's going to do. I'm going to come live with you all. and I want you to build me a room and it's going to look like the garden and all these...

Here's what the priest you're going to do. Here's what they have to wear. You're getting the way to get up the mountain to be with God. Like he's giving you the way. This is how, this is the way. And while God's providing the way, the people are conspiring

to abandon them and go for and God's to build a golden calf. You can't make this stuff up. I like how Aaron is, he's like, I'm a priest and I'll do whatever. takes. Like, God says, we're going to drink this water. Sure, people want an altar, I'll build it. He's like, whatever y'all want, I'm the priest. He's like, yeah, let's go for it. Let's go for it.

Keep your head down and don't get noticed. Yeah, don't get noticed. I got all the religion going on. He's like, we'll just add that in. You've seen that in business before, right? You've ever been around business that's like, just keep your head down. Middle management. Don't be too successful. Uh-huh. Right. But don't be too, don't fail either. Just go unnoticed. and hopefully the boss, you know. Yeah, just don't let the boss. I know you've seen it before. Yeah, I've seen that.

Yeah. I thought one part that Dr. Jackson brought up that I thought was interesting is because sometimes when I read it, it can be confusing, you know, the verses where, you know, like, for instance, when Moses is imploring to God on behalf of the people,

then it says that God, you know, turns back or changes his mind. And it's kind of been like, you know, why to Moses somehow convince God to change his mind? He was kind of breaking it down, more so from the standpoint of it was actually a test more so to Moses to seeing if, it was more so a test to Moses to see if Moses would implore on the people,

kind of different than, you know, Moses necessarily changing God's mind, which I thought was an interesting take, because I've always just read it as somehow, somehow God, somehow Moses just completely changed God's mind, which could be true, but I thought his point was interesting of him kind of saying, he's going to wipe them out,

and Moses kind of imploring on the people, also as it's a test of God to Moses to see what he'll what is responsible it's a test of sacrifice yeah I think it's part of the literary device that's used in scripture God doesn't change his mind

yeah I mean God's out there like he knows all things okay good point Moses yeah I forgot Moses yeah you're right I shouldn't do that yeah it's more like a literary rhetorical device that the author's using

the Holy Spirit uses to like make this like accessible for us you know because God does exist outside of space and time. And so when we start trying to think about God's knowledge, all those big conversations, these big ideas, like we just honestly can't enter into understanding that because we're trying to, we're trying to comprehend something that's outside of our realm of existence. We can't. And if we could grasp that,

then he wouldn't be much of a God. Yeah. Well, and you see the way this goes down. So he gives the Ten Commandments. The people say, that's good. As Zach said, that two different times. They, they confirm that. We're all in. These sound like good ideas. And they, why wouldn't they? They're great.

We recognize God. We're not going to have idols. We're not going to do this. And then he adds those two things on after. And look, by the way, don't take your silver and gold and make it. And don't use a tool. And then look what happens at verse 4 of 32. He took what they handed him.

He made it into an idol, cast in the shape of a calf. So we're just violate, violate, violate, fashioning it with, guess what? A tool. So, I mean, it's like, I gave you this. You said you're going to do it. And now we're taking, and now we're hearing this point 40 days later, and we're doing exactly what you asked us not to do.

And somehow, and I do think it shows that human beings tend to try to put something in their life when they're unsure they need certainty. And for whatever reason, it made sense to them that certainty was in a golden cat. And they even say later in that text, the golden cat that led us out of each, Well, the reason why it provides certainty is because it's an illusion. But think about what this is. What is the significance of a golden calf? Well, they made it.

Yeah. So if I'm worshipping something that my hands have made, then ultimately what am I worshipping myself? Exactly. Which is back to the garden. Go back to the garden. And we had this illusion or delusion that we're more sovereign than we are. I think I'm running my own show here.

I think I am. I think I'm like, you know, I've worked hard. I built whatever we built. You think you have until something happened, until a hurricane hits your hometown. And you're like, whoa, all our best laid plans are just swept down the river in a moment's notice. And I think that that's the, but you, we build these things because we look at this and we think, what kind of idiot would worship something that they made?

but we all do it still. Like this is the plague of man is that we worship and serve the created things. Cell phone, right? Which is why God said it. Which is why he said it right after he'd just given him the law.

It's all good that everybody can agree. These are good rules to live by. And if we were just going to pick out 10 things, that's 10 pretty good ones. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, and by the way, don't put something up that you've done and that you built. And then the first 40 days,

we run into that. It is our nature to tend to want to do that because we think it's certain, but you're right, Zach, it's a lie. And who's the liar from the beginning? I mean, that's what he does. And the lie is connected. It is connected with presence because what ultimately you're doing when you worship the things you created is you're actually denying a really important part of the puzzle. For example, if I built this table and then I started to worship this table that I built it, that I built it. but maybe I really did construct this with my own hands and all that.

But what I didn't do was I didn't create this table out of nothing. I didn't say, let there be table, and there was table. I had to take stuff that was already in existence and it was already created. So really we don't actually create anything. We just take the creation and we can rearrange it and call it creation. But it's not the same way God creates. When God creates, he creates out of nothing. And I think that what we're doing when we worship idols,

and it's essentially just to say, I'm going to ignore the fact that the thing, like the fruit that I'm eating to go back to the garden, I'm going to ignore the fact that actually this fruit was made by God. And so I'm going to eat it and pretend like God's not there. And the way that would maybe look in like a setting with kids, since we use our kids as an analogy a lot, is if my kids come down,

because everything God gives us his gift, the created world is gift from God to man. And so if my kids come down on Christmas, day and they grab one of the gifts that I got for them and then they literally don't even acknowledge me and they go up to their room to open this gift by themselves and then they unwrap it, they open the gift and they start playing with the toy or whatever. Like that, you've missed the point. Like the gift is, I gave you the gift, but I want to watch you enjoy it. You're going to play with it in my presence. That's the whole part of Christmas is that we're

doing this together. And like, and so the idea here that you're seeing is this whole thing. centered around presence because they're doing this while God is preparing a place to be present with them. They make the idol, and then Moses is the one who's kind of connected with God, and then we get to chapter 33, and Moses is like, I'm not going anywhere if your presence doesn't go with me. Yeah. Moses gets it, and to some degree, Moses gets it. Well, and look what happens. They, afterwards, they sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in revelry. I don't know what, I don't know what y'all's version said in verse. but 32.

But whatever that was, it probably wasn't good. You know what I'm saying? I mean, like this festival and the golden calf quickly turned into something. This is a party. This is an orgy. This is like this is the why.

This is Burning Man. It instantly became immoral. Yeah. And it's interesting. Once we take that step out of idolatry, into idolatry, immorality is right around the corner. I mean,

right. Well, I think you see too here of Moses presenting, you know, there's going to be consequences for what you do because he burns the calf and then you know it says he grinds it and scatters it in the water and then he he makes the people drink the water you know so it's like it's not it's not only like does he just do away with it he's like you know you're there's going to be a consequence for what you just did and he makes the people drink this metallic burnt

like it's so funny water these dogs kids are so young but when they get about 12 or 13 i do this all time i'm like i'll i'll throw out a consequence yeah and i'm like you're grounded yeah for one week plus one more and my anger will burn and I'm like and they've got a doctor paper and you won't drink doctor paper the entire time

that's Moses I'm going to burn it and he's like and get scattered then you're going to drink it oh by the way 3,000 of you are going to die because that happened to

some of you may die oh that's so funny I thought something Dr. Jackson said when he was on, I don't know if he said this on podcast or when we were talking, is about how the commandments, all 613 of them,

were to bring the people closer to God. Like each commandment, and now I'm saying my own thing I thought of after this, the commandments were, each commandment is teaching you something about God and about the world. And the contrast between following God's word in the form of these commandments and these laws, versus following a physical idol.

And I think that's what God is telling them is, like, trust in my word and the things I'm telling you, not anything you can see. Right. No, I think that's really good. That is a good point. And so it leads in, as you said, Zach, to the last chapter that he deals with, which is in 33, which was this idea of the glory of God sort of, you know, coming into frame here. and it's a preparation for what's going to happen with the tabernacle later the temple. Because in spite of everything we just said,

this was a terrible kickoff. But he does come back. And it's so funny because he's like, you know, again, trying to be defensive. And he gets down there, and he's furious, as Christian said, with him as well. But he realizes.

Yeah, he breaks the tablets when he sees it. Oh, yeah. He threw a big old hissie fit. And by the way, if you want to learn more about this his he fit, you can go to Unashamed for Hillsdale.com and register for this course on the Exodus, and you can get as deep as you want into the hissy fit of Moses. That might be a good book, by the way, the hissy fit.

I like this. Yeah. That'd be a good sermon for sure. Yeah. Because he's not 100% righteous in all this. I mean, obviously he has like some kind of, because what do you see? Well, you remember, God said up on the mountain, he's like, because he knows, obviously, what's going on down the valley.

And he's like, you know what? I think we're just going to start with you. you get support I get your kids and you know however you got at this point and we're just going to start I mean it's not like

God hadn't started over a couple of times already so it's like we're just going to start over and again it was the test but Moses's like no let's don't kill them you know like we brought them out we brought them this far

we can do it and the thing about it is I don't know if Moses knew it or not but in that moment if you raised up a whole new other group we'd just be a few generations away from me right back here again and the reason I know that

is because here we sit 6,000 years, 5 or 6,000 after this happened. And we still got the same problem. We still got people that turned to idolatry, that leads to immorality, at least a divorce and difficulty and damage and destruction and drug addiction. I mean, it just hasn't changed. It's the same thing, same process. But when God's glory does come, I mean, you read this stuff.

And, yeah, we, there's a song we would sing, show us your glory. Show us your glory Yep I sing a little bit different Than that Same word It's Bethleh Or isn't

I think it's passion And wonder And surrender We fall out It might be passion Sorry passion I don't know Yeah

I gotta give credit With credit I think Passion did it You're looking it up Yeah I'm gonna Christian's gonna look

That up for us But show us Your glory And we But like I think we sing That song Sometimes

We think Yeah Holy ground Is that Yeah Oh, holy ground, which is exactly what's happening here, right? This is holy ground. Holy ground.

I bet they wrote this out of Exodus 33. I bet they did. And so we want God to show us his glory. But I think that that's kind of like, be careful. Yeah. I mean, this is a moment of repentance. This is a moment of purification. This is a moment of consecration.

This is a moment of, I mean, I actually think this is the posture that God wants us in. because these people here, he's like, take it off. You stiff-necked people, take everything off, and just come in as you are. And I think the gospel is this message right here, going back to the garden reference in the nakedness. I think so often in our humanistic framework, we want the gospel to be just a psychological cure

for our mental insecurities and illnesses. And so we want to position it where God's looking at us. And he says, I know you think you're bad, but you're actually wonderful. And I think you're just amazing. And then, but the problem is that we know we're not. And that's not the gospel. The gospel is that God sees you from his glory. And he says, I know you think you're bad.

You're way. I was going to say, yeah, you're actually way worse than filthy rags. It's like, hey, it's a lot worse than you think it is. But here's the gospel. And I see you there. And I'm present. while we were enemies, Romans Christ died for us. Anything about that?

While we were enemies, while we were at odds with God, that's where we were sinners, still sinners, Christ died for the ungodly. And so you think about the entry point, it's that Genesis passage, right? God sees them in their nakedness. But to be known in your nakedness is, that's where our real intimacy is born,

because now I don't have to perform for this God, not because I'm amazing, but because I'm not. and God says, I see you there, and that's where I died for you. So I come before this God, and the goal is his real presence. I think God's glory is directly connected to his presence, and God's presence is that he is available, that he is there. He is the God who is there.

So he first is that with himself, because he's triune, and there's no adulteration inside the Trinity. And then with us, there's adulteration, right? But God cleans that up. He covers that, and then there is, there is that covering that. that allows for a real genuine thought presence. I love the idea about the terrifying nature of this glory of God to go along with the idea of how we sing about it so lightly.

It's like if, so, you know, in your house, now, especially with all the devices, you know, every plug in my house has something else plugged into it, and then a strip, and then 14 things plugged into that, right? Because everybody's got a device, and now everything has to be charged that way. The old days we just did, you know, batteries that destroyed the planet like it was supposed to be. And now we've got all these rechargeables. And so you think about that, you love power when it's just that a nice little 110 current. And even if you stuck your finger and they would just zap you for a second.

But if you go outside and start following that back where it goes, it's terrifying. Yeah. I mean, it will blow holes through your body. It happens to people. And so I think the movie of all things, we talked about Ten Commandments in the past, the movie, it's a great old movie with Charlton Heston. But the movie that captured the terrifying nature of God was actually Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Remember when they got this? So you had the Ark of the Covenant and the Nazis are going to get it and take over the world and they take the cover off and all of a sudden they realize it can be terrifying what would happen if somehow we tried to look at God. Remembering?

And I mean, this movie was, I'll never forget it. A secular movie, but they kind of got this right. They got the idea of it. And even Spielberg got it because and his thing was, don't look at whatever you do, close your eyes. You know, the only one to figure it out was Indiana Jones. But all the other people looked and boom.

And so it's kind of the same idea that you see here. And that's always indelibly on my brain seeing that and imagining he being in these kind of moments where you're seeing this power so closely that you can't look at it. It's too big for us. Even Moses couldn't look at it. He could not look at it. And he had his close relationship with God as anybody that ever lived.

Which that is the, I think that is like where kind of the story of Exodus kind of ends with this idea of, you get morsels of God's presence, but it's not like quite there, though. You know, because it's because of the fearful nature of it. And we don't really know the end of the story of this until we get to the New Testament. But like, which I want to get to in the second in 2nd and 2 Corinthians 3, but like this, where Moses comes in here in verse 34, well, first of all, Moses is like kind of going back and forth with God up here on a lot of different things. but he's like, you know, you say, I've got favor in your side. Well, if I have favor, but Moses's real appeal to God is, I don't want to go any further in this whole ordeal if you're not going with me. And that, I think, is the place that the Lord wants us to be.

Yeah. Is that what we say, I cannot move forward if your presence does not go with me. Well, Moses does have this moment with God. And although he doesn't look at him face to face because he says, I mean, he says our earlier or if anyone looks at me, they're going to die. So you have that whole thing. But Moses does have an encounter with God. In verse 29 of chapter 34,

when Moses came down from Mount Sinai with the two tablets of testimony in his hand, as he came down the mountain, Moses did not know that the skin of his face shone or shine. It was one way. You can say that because he had been talking with God. So just the fact that he was talking with God, his face is like radiating the glory of God.

and Aaron, the high priest and all the people of Israel, saw Moses and behold, the skin of his face shone. And they were afraid to come near to Moses now. So not only is God's glory fearful, if you've been in, if you're near someone who's been in the presence of God, even to come near that person, they were afraid. They were like, whoa, what is going on here? But Moses called to them, and this is kind of what God does to us, and Aaron and all the leaders of the congregation that returned to him. and Moses talked with them, and then after all the people of Israel came near, he commanded them all that the Lord had spoken to him on Mount Sinai, and we had finished speaking with them, he put a veil over his face.

And the reason why he put the veil over his face is so that they would not see what was to come. And that's what Paul kind of picks up on in 2 Corinthians chapter 2. You know the story I'm talking about how, don't you? We talk about this all the time in the podcast, but 2 Corinthians 3 picks up on this same thing. And he says here, he says,

if the ministry of death carved into letters of stone came with such story, that's the one that was on the Ten Commandments. I mean, it was carved in stones, but Paul calls it a ministry of death. You look at God, you die. Now, that's having the high view of what that was really about. They do. Yeah, exactly. I mean, he literally called this ministry of death.

Because you couldn't survive, you couldn't do it, you know, on your own. Yeah. It wasn't that it was bad. No, it's because you can't do it. Well, yeah. You die. You know, I said this other day, if you don't think, if you, when you think of yourself, you think, well, I'm not that bad.

If you think that about yourself, it's only, the only way you can think that is because you don't know how good God is. You know how good God is and then you realize that you're, you don't compare. If you make that comparison, you're always going to come up short. But he says that this ministry came, carved their letters of stone came with such a glory. that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses's face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end. That ministry was being brought to an end.

Will not the ministry of the Spirit, so he's juxtaposing the ministry of the Holy Spirit with that ministry, have even more glory. For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, which is what that ministry was, not that God was condemning them, it was just that it was highlighting their inability. You know, that's what the...

It was shown the need for. a Messiah for a Savior. Yeah, because what did Paul say that the law was added so the trespass might increase? Otherwise, that you would become aware of your inability at that Mount Sinai. And so that ministry is coming to an end, the ministry of condemnation.

The ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. Indeed, in this case, what had once had glory has come to have no glory at all because of the glory that surpasses it. For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory. This goes back in the Hebrew 12 moment.

This is it. Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face. We just read it, so that the Israelites might not gaze

at the outcome of what was being brought to an end. But their minds were hardened and to this very day when they read the old covenant, the same veil remains unlifted. He said, well, why is that? Because only through Christ's taken away yesterday this very day whenever Moses has read the veil lies over their heart but when one turns to the

lord the lord the veil is removed now the lord is the spirit and where the spirit of the lord is there is freedom and we all with unveiled faces behold the glory of the lord are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another for this comes from the lord who is spirit i love it it's so powerful because i'm so glad for the apostle paul because he i mean this he's an expert and all things law, all things Old Testament, all things First covenant. And he sees it, because in the moment we're reading this, it looks like the reason they had to veil the faces because it was just so overwhelming they couldn't take it. Well, Paul said, no, there was

another reason why it was fading. It would not last. It would not work. We couldn't be there together. So he, the real reason for the veil was that it was obsolete. It wasn't going to hold. It wasn't going to last. Because eventually his face wasn't glowing. Exactly. Yeah. He goes around a while. When he would move away. Well, then what happens when, but what happens with the spirit? It's from one degree of glory to another. So when you're in the spirit, actually it doesn't fade, God's glory grows.

By the way, sign up at Undershamfree Hillsdale.com to check this out. But to me, that's, that is the key component. Yeah, that's being sanctified. That's being sanctified. And again, don't, don't, you know, confuse the idea that there were not people of faith here who believed in God, who obtained salvation. the same way we do because when we get to Hebrews 11, you read that whole chapter about all these people we're reading about now,

and it said, together with us made perfect, then he goes into chapter 12 and shows the mountain. They believed in Yahweh. They believed in God. Now, they didn't understand what we know now later is because they were all 15 hundred years before Christ, but the same faith that saves us, save them. It's a belief in who God is, that I can't do it.

And there were many that did, including the foreigners, because when you get later into this, which by the way, we mentioned Joshua earlier because he was down there fighting, you know, when the head, so he's kind of a military guy. But he's also starting up here as almost like Moses's aide and like he's taking notes. And he's actually there in the tent of meeting as well. And so I think Moses shows you something very important. You can't be a leader forever. You know, your time is going to come and your time is going to go.

And so you always have to be preparing a next generation. and there was always that guy and guess who was there who had the faith to usher them into the land of canada because the bad news for the story that we don't get to and Dr. Jackson get to

is that they wandered around out here for 40 years. There was 40 days they didn't believe. Moses don't get in. And Moses doesn't get in either. Yeah, that's the craziest part. So after all this,

Moses doesn't, he's on a mountain looking at it. Yeah. You know, but the good news is for those of you say, oh man, that's just so unfair to Moses. He also got buried by God and he shows back up on the Mount of Transfiguration.

Do you make it to the Maddoch Transfiguration? He got a good deal. That's a win. It's a win. So it is interesting, but when you get all the way forward, and they're going to conquer this land by God's power, because it's going to be more of the same. But now it's a whole new generation being led by Joshua and Caleb. And so there's two guys that are going to be the new leaders.

But right off the bat, when you get into Joshua 1 and 2, you see Rahab and you see the, you know, the prostitute, and then she, by faith, you know, responds. She gets saved or family gets saved. And you already see this remnant philosophy just continue to carry through. And that's going to go all the way through the Old Testament. And really lead us, by the way, I didn't realize that was segue in, but I guess I am, that she winds up in the lineage of David.

Which is our next study. Because it's interesting that he becomes a part of that with foreigners in his background, just like Jesus had in his, which is interesting. Well, John, like earlier, you mentioned that we didn't have a lot of robust teaching in the Holy Spirit growing up. And that's a shame because when you read this passage and Paul or Paul mentions this in 1st, or 2nd or 2nd Corinthians, it's the Lord of the Spirit that brings the transformation. I think that's, again, going back to the idea of the reason why that is to wrap a bow on it is because of presence. and it's only by the spirit that God is going to live in human beings,

which was, wasn't that Jesus's point in John 14 and John 16, when he basically says, I have to go. Like, trust me, you want me to leave, because if I don't leave, then he's not coming. And then we get that really robust teaching that the Holy Spirit will live in human bodies now. So Paul picks up on that theme, and just to, you know, first question in six,

Paul says that your body's an actual temple of the Holy Spirit. So you can't get much more like intimate than like God living inside you. And I heard, what's the guy's name? Crazy Love. Francis Chan? Yeah, Francis Chan. I was at an event that he was at and he spoke. And he was talking about Mother Mary.

And he was like, what would you do if she like sat down right next to you? Like with God in her womb? Like how would you treat her? And he started painting this picture and asking this question. At first of, I was like, where are we going with us? You know, we're going? You know, whatever, where are we going? But the more he sat in, I was like, man, you know,

you would treat her with the utmost respect. You would treat her with, like, so much, because he's housing God in her body, and you knew that Jesus was in her womb. You would be like, oh, my goodness, right? Yeah. And then he said, do you realize that all of you who are Christians in here? are carrying God in your body.

Wow, that's cool. Your body's a temple of the Holy Spirit. Why do we treat each other the way we do? And so then you start to see when Jesus sums up the whole law, says, love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. And the second one is love your neighbors yourself. So all those laws that we're given right here, they all can be summed up and just love God and love each other.

You know, and that's enabled to us to the spirit. And the passage you read in St. Grinthians is a picture of, of the deposit given us as believers in the Holy Spirit as a glimpse of glory, eternal nature, now that resides in us. And so, and the Bible says, we're gonna be like, when he comes back that final time, we will be like we will be, you know,

in the Great Resurrection. So it is that beautiful picture now that we're looking, and so we're in that last framework of everything that's study, you know, that's why it's so big, because you see all the beginning points of that came for. forward.

What's the name of God again? I will be there. Howsoever I'll be there? Ayer, I'll say, Iyer. Something like that. It's impressive. Sorry, Dr. Jackson, if I botched that. And we know you're watching.

Always got a good name. I'm always got a good name. I sure. Well, this has been a great study. I've loved doing it with y'all. I guess the next time we get back together, we'll be in. Be in David. Next week, we'll be in David.

Yeah. See you then. Well, actually, technically, next week, we're still with Dr. Jackson. Oh, that's right. Next week we'll be our Dr. Jackson. And then after that, it's going to be David, boys.

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