Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1211 | Jase Revisits His Final Throwdown with Willie & How Jesus Ends the Real Battles

Episode Date: November 18, 2025

Jase cracks Al and Zach up remembering the last real fistfight he and Willie ever had, a brother-on-brother brawl that ended with Miss Kay being furious and Jase feeling life-altering shame. The guys pile on more memories of Willie’s biggest pranks, including a deeply disturbing Cheese Whiz attack, and admit the Robertsons may have taken things a little too far in their younger days. The guys show how Jesus, the true bread from heaven, leads the way as a brand-new creation. Tomorrow Clubs’ Paul Marty shares a bold 2030 vision to disciple 100,000 kids and invites Unashamed Nation to help reach the next generation for Christ at https://tomorrowclubs.org/unashamed. In this episode: John 19; John 6, verses 28–42; John 3, verses 1–13; Leviticus 23, verses 3–11; Exodus 23, verses 10–17; Isaiah 53, verses 1–3 and 10; 1 Corinthians 15, verses 22 and 48; Romans 8, verses 11–23 Chapters: 00:00-9:24 Willie’s cheese whiz habit 09:25-18:15 Connecting the dots of Jewish history 18:16-27:13 What's the point of the Sabbath? 27:14-35:55 The prophecy of the suffering servant 35:56-43:32 Bread from Heaven is more than bread 43:33-56:21 Reaching kids for Jesus all over the world — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. We're back in our boxes. I'm in the Southern Lair. You can take a drink, Zach, with our new drinking game. Yeah, from our fan. Oh, did you like that from the last?

I thought it was really good. Was it Lance? Lance, yeah. I sent him a little, I sent him in Instagram. I think he's off of Instagram right now because he didn't respond to me, but I said, hey, you did a checkout, whatever this, that one aired. So we'll see it's back on. The Southern Lair was one of his buzzword, one of his drinking words.

Zach, what you got to remember is not everybody stops what they're doing when you send them a message. Well, that was a joke. I was just creating some tension before we begin. All the tension's already there, Jay. It's good tension, though. It's healthy tension. Zach is a big boss.

He's got a lot of people that work for him. He's used to people just snap into attention. Oh, gosh. No, I'm not used to that. I'm used to people just, yeah. So yet, go ahead. Yeah, I'm a different kind of boss. You know, when Willie showed up on the podcast last time,

one of the comments said something like, we see how Zach coweres down like a little baby when their real boss shows up. No, that was a good comment. I would have, what did they call that thumbs up it or whatever? You gave that a thumbs up? I'd have given that a thumbs up. Or, you know, ha-ha.

Ah, that's good entertainment there. That's good TV right there. I don't care who you are. And it is funny because the way Willie is, that's one of the things people ask me, you know, they ask about everybody kind of like behind the scenes on the show. And I'm like, you know, Willie had to be the guy on the show to like try to crack the web, get everybody to work, you know, all this stuff. But he's the one, he's the biggest prankster of us all.

And, you know, you don't get to see that much on the old little duck show, But he's, he's the one that has that personality more than all of us, you know. So he just kind of had a role to fulfill it. Yeah, not that it's his pranks are any fun. It's usually at the detriment of whoever the prank is on. That's why I didn't. I'm like, some pranks are not funny. They're disturbing.

And most of his are. Yeah, I don't know the statute of limitations on this, but when he was running Camp Chioca, there was a certain individual named Cliff that was, always hanging around Willie because, you know, Willie always had an entourage, and they were, they got in a prank war. And I can't remember what Cliff did. But whatever it was, Willie, here's the problem with prank and Willie. On the other, whatever your thing is, he's going to times it by 10.

And so he chased. He knows no limits. He knows no limits. I still think about this. We talk about this probably twice a year at my house. Willie chases Cliff down He tackles him And I don't know why he had this on him

But he had a can, a little canister Of a cheese whiz Willie had a can of cheese whiz on him And he took that cheese whiz And he put it in Cliff's ear And he started pouring cheese whiz all in his ear That's dangerous That's what I said

That's what I mean That's too far The only problem of that story is you're like Wondering why Willie had a can of cheese with on him. Yeah. That's just standard operating procedure. He never left home without.

Why would he not out of credit? Yeah, he bypasses the crackers, and he cocks his mouth sideways and just go straight in. I've seen him do it many times. It's cheese whiz, man. So he might like your burgers, Zach. Spray some cheese whiz on it. Well, Jason, Willie, are the only two people I've ever seen that literally had a fight. I mean, a serious fist fight over food, over who got to use the...

I was called a wrestling match. There really was it punches thrown. It was more of a grappling. I've told this story before on the podcast. So if you go deep into the archives, you'll find it. But, no, it wasn't about the food. It was about the timing, who's on first, what's on second. I had a pizza, I mean, Willie had a pizza that he wanted to warm up, frozen pizza.

I didn't eat that kind of jump back then. But I was making some toast. I was in the process. Well, toast takes one minute on broil. Yeah, because you just brawl it. Yeah. But I was making it when he came in. And I had the oven on broil.

So I'd already, to me, started the process. Well, he grabs a pizza, turns the oven on 400 and sticks his pizza in there. I said, nope. I was here first. This will take one minute. So when I went to take his pizza out, he shoved me. And two minutes later, two minutes later, old Jace had the upper hand. after I managed to lift him and then drop him on a five-gallon bucket of flour, which exploded.

It was a belly-to-backed-backed-soufleigh. Oh, yeah, it was well done. And, of course, no parents are there. We were grown men. I mean, I was probably 19 years old, and he was 17. See, you were following Jesus at this point. No, we got rebuked immediately. Don Curley Foster, who was a family friend that Phil had brought to the Lord, he said,

well, that was a fine way for two godly men to act, which he was being sarcastic. So then that kind of convicted me, you know, because I thought, oh, he's right, but I don't like it. And then Willie, like, took off, got the keys to the only car we have, took off. And he's like, where's he going? I said, oh, he'll be back in a minute. He's a runner. He's a runner. That's what he did when dad slapped him in the face when he gave a grant a can of coke,

but it didn't have coke and it had Copenhagen spit. And Grant take a swig of it. Speaking of pranks. Grant was about three. Willie was about 15. Grant's never been the same. See, it's great. And he probably never dipped snuff.

And just like then, Willie has never shoved me again. So when dad slapped him, you know what he did? He took off running. He's a runner. He's a runner. But what's funny about it, if you hear Willie tell that story, Willie cast himself as a four-year-old child, and my dad, he casts a morbidly obese, giant. Abusive uncle.

It's hilarious. The way Willie tells the story, it's pretty funny because it's like not what happened, but it's very funny. He kind of tells the story about the fight. You know, that's basically. what happened. I think it took him 20 years to say, yeah, you know, Jason is more scrappy than he looked. I think he was surprised that, but we were into wrestling a lot.

So I was like, if I ever can get this joker and use his weight against him. So with everything I had, I lifted the beast. And then I just collapsed backwards. I was trying to get him to hit the table. But during the jocelyn, he just came down on that can of flour, which actually from a movie-making standpoint, just had an incredible effect because when the flower exploded, it just launched into the whole living area.

I mean, the place smelled like flour for a couple years because of that. Mom came in. She was living. She was not happy. So then I jumped on him and did the old carpet burn. to the face, which was brutal, and I shouldn't have done that because it actually looked terrible for about a week. And I got in the most trouble just because of the way he looked,

his face looked like he got in a fight with a carpet and lost. Next time we have him on, I've got to get him to tell his version of it, because I'm sure it'll be different. Yeah, that was it. And I mean, I didn't. I'm not defending. You know, we should not have done that. You, all men shall know you by your love for one another, and we defied that in every way possible.

Because then- That was probably the last fights you ever had, though, right? Oh, that was it. And then I, but we, I didn't realize at this point, we fought every day for years, but, you know, we couldn't really hurt each other because we were little kids. But when I realized that we destroyed the kitchen, I threw his pizza out in the yard after he left, you know, I ate my toast. And then I thought, yeah, we might ought to make an adjustment. and how we handle conflict. But you usually remember the last one. It was like the last spanking ever gave my girls was on Christmas Day of all days

because they were, you know, fighting over what they didn't get or God. I can't remember the setting, but they remember it. But it was the last one they ever got and they still remember it. So I guess it's the same thing. So yesterday, Lisa and I celebrated 41 years of marital bliss. and it was really funny because at this, I mean, I'm 60. Lisa will be 60 in January.

And we worked out and rode bikes. I thought, who would have ever thought if at 41 years that we would be in this place in life? Because she's working on her. She calls a mammal arms. She wants to try to work her upper body a little bit. So I was going, taking her through some of the paces that I've been doing since I've lost this weight.

And so we were working. out on our 41st anniversary. So, Zach, there's always hope. Always hope. Yeah, well, you reach a certain point where it's just if you want to maintain your lifestyle, that's right. Yeah, some sort of physical ability. Because, look, my last four days have been a blur.

We've had little man, which means I'm getting up at six o'clock, despite still going to bed because I'm studying after he goes to bed. And I had about a lot of. of speaking engagements in between. They were all local, but it was just great. I mean, I think the most fantastic thing I did was three or four days ago. I spoke at an FCA meeting before school at a junior high. I wish I had taken a picture because when I left, I thought,

why didn't I just turn around and, like, do a selfie? So I could have shared that with you. I would say there was 250 to 300 junior high age. at 7 o'clock in the morning in our hometown. I didn't even know that many people went to that school, or we had that many. But I think it was half the school. But I thought, now, I realized they can't drive.

So they were dropped off. But still. They still have to choose to come, yeah. And they still had to choose to listen because they usually say, look, here's what the guy who introduced me said. He's like, usually the speaker speaks 10 minutes. I mean, this is junior high, and it is 7 o'clock in the morning. But I've heard your podcast, so we're going to give you the full allotment of our time for this gathering before school, which was 22 minutes.

So I took 21 and a half minute. But I was shocked at how well they listened. I mean, they were typical junior high. They didn't laugh at my jokes, which I knew they weren't. Because I taught junior high at our local church for 12 years. So, yeah, it was fantastic. That's pretty awesome, Jay. Well, y'all ready to get into John?

Let's get into John. I am. We're in John 19, for those of you that have been following along. We've kind of taken our time through the book of John because we're trying to get this higher view, I guess, is the way of looking at it. Because we're in the narrative of Jesus' crucifixion. And so just rather than just read it, we've kind of been doing Jason's rabbit holes as we go along this process to be able to really see the significance of this. Because this is the heart of the story of Jesus and what he did for us. I would argue that it's John's rabbit holes of connecting the dots to Jewish history.

And we're just for the first time kind of approaching the book that way. I mean, some of my study time was trying to kind of figure out because we're right here at Jesus fixing to die. And, you know, he predicted that he would die, be buried, and be raised in three days. Well, if you go look up these scholarly views of all that, you will find so much disagreement over why he said three days. when if you look at all the accounts, does it seem like three days? I mean, because you've got Friday, he dies, Sunday, he's risen. So technically, we're thinking about our three, 24-hour time periods.

Right. And if you try to make all that fit, you're going to be very frustrated. Yeah. So now I think I've, you know, got a few things figured out on that, which at some point we can get into. but to my point, I think what you have in mind is what Jesus is fulfilling during these three days from the Old Testament and the Jewish history. Because there's a reason he's giving you the timeline as we go along. Because when we get to John 20, the first verse says on the first day of the week, early on the first day.

day of the week. Yeah. So you know that he's given some reference for a reason there. Right. I mean, what's the implications? Which in my mind, I'm like, ooh, we have a new creation being launched here. Death has now been dealt with. Well, and even the events that they were going to read about today, they, everything was

geared towards the Sabbath and, you know, That was why they broke their legs, the two guys with him, and they didn't break his because he was already dead. I mean, there was a lot of implications and prophecies that were fulfilled in the way it went down. So the timing of it was important. Well, let me just give you that since we were, I guess I brought this up and then you echoed that. But yeah, he seems to be purposefully mentioning this is Passover week. And in my attempt to look at all these, you know, with the three days, being buried in three days, what I found was is a fulfillment from, I wrote this down somewhere, Leviticus 23.

And I really believe these three festivals that seem to intertwine at Jesus' death, bell, and resurrection that are mentioned in Leviticus 23, is quite. quite interesting. I mean, y'all probably know where I'm going with this or maybe no. Yeah. Well, I know where you're going. And there's a couple of more that, because I wrote one down, I didn't write it down, I think Exodus 34 was another one where there was some significance to some of the Old Testament timing that timed into exactly what he was doing.

So the Jewish tradition, they would have the Passover. celebration. And when Jesus died, this was like, not only was it just a Sabbath, but it was like the annual Sabbath festival. And then after that, so the day after the Sabbath, you had the Passover and the unleavened bread. I'm not sure what that was called, the feast of the unleavened bread, first of the unleavened bread. I'm getting the first. The feast of the unleavened bread. and then you had the waving of the first fruits. And so you see this in Leviticus 23, and you're like, how interesting is this going to be?

It's really going to be quite interesting. Because when you just read it, in Leviticus 23, verse 3, it says, there are six days when you may work. But the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, a day of sacred assembly, you are not to do any work, whether you live, it is a Sabbath to the Lord. So before I continue reading,

I'll just echo that what I said about, this goes back to when God created the earth. So you remember he made man on the sixth day? And that's why it's significant, where when Pilate said, here's the man, well this is the sixth day of the of the week when this is happening isn't that fascinating yeah i mean do you think he's not doing this on purpose so when you when you read genesis two after he

makes man it says verse one thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array by the seventh day god had finished the work he had been doing so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. And God blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. So he set it apart, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done. So there's that. Because then you have the Sabbath and then 23 of Leviticus in verse four gets to the unleavened bread. These are the Lord's appointed feasts. The sacred assemblies you are to proclaim at their appointed times. The Lord's Passover begins at twilight on the 14th day of the first month. So that's kind of the way they did their day. So like they would, you know, from sunset to sun up.

So technically like on the Sabbath they would start at sunset Friday and to sun up Saturday, right? Yeah. So then it says, Verse five, the Lord's Passover begins at twilight on the 14th day of the month. On the 15th day of the month, the Lord's Feast of Unleavened Bread begins. Well, just think about all the times Jesus used this as an analogy. Yeah, bread of life. John chapter 6. Well, it makes perfect sense when you think about when he said, I am the bread of life.

Yeah. And so then that's for seven days, you must eat bread made made, without yeast, and which goes back to the Passover because they had to leave in such a hurry. It's like, you don't have time to put leaven in the bread, and then it kind of represents sin, just a little sin in the camp, and it spreads and this kind of thinking. So verse 7, on the first day, hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. for seven days, present an offer made to the Lord by fire, and on the seventh day, hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.

Well, then, in Leviticus 23, it goes to the first fruits. The Lord said to Moses, speak to the Israelites, and say to them, when you enter the land, I'm going to give you, and you reap its harvest. Bring to the priest a sheaf of the first grain you harvest. He is to wave the sheaf before the Lord, so it will be accepted on your behalf. the priest is to wave it on the day after the Sabbath. So you see those three days? I just gave them to you.

That's more the point in what Jesus is fulfilling. He becomes the rest. Just think about the verse. Come to me all you who are weak and heavy, yeah, weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest. You think about the Hebrews chapter three and Hebrews chapter four,

you know, this rest that Jesus provided and he calls it today, which is interesting, because it's like every day you rest in Christ because of the righteousness he provided through his death on a cross and the sacrifice. So that's basically it. And then so you say, well, what's the significance of the first fruits on the third day? Well, that's why Paul in 1 Corinthians 15, made this statement, just think about how this makes more sense now. 1 Corinthians 15 says, 22, for as an Adam all die, so in Christ all would be made alive,

but each in his own turn, Christ the first fruit. Well, you see how that's being played here through the story of Israel, through the Exodus, the new Exodus. I mean, I think it's just fascinating. Yeah. And it makes you realize that the whole Bible, what we're calling rabbit holes, is a story within history where ultimately God became a human from the nation of Israel. But Gentiles would be grafted in because the things he dealt with are prevalent to all humans, sin, death, the evil powers that are against humans. So that was kind of my take on the three days.

No, I think that's good, Jay's. And what's amazing about it is that, and we've said this all through this study, is these people that were insisting that he'd be crucified were experts in the scripture, and studying and knowing the Torah and knowing the book. And they should have seen all that. I mean, like, this is all happening. it's all fulfillment. It's exactly as it should have been.

But it shows you when you're blinded, you know, by a narrative that you're just so convinced that this guy's a charlatan that they missed the entire thing. I mean, what you just said, everyone in that day should have known and seen because it was very clear as to how it was supposed to happen. But they didn't. I mean, not only did they miss it, but they were the driving force in trying to eradicate him from the. earth. I mean, that's how off they were. Well, I bring this up because I think what we tend to do when we get to this part of God's story is we just focused like here in America on, well, he died for our sins. But I just showed you the three fulfillments, which is really the only way to make sense of like when he gave that illustration about Jonah. Because he says,

he tells the story of Jonah where he swallowed the fish for three days, but then he appeals it to what he's going to do. He prophes it. Because this is the verse that causes people problems, because he said, so the son of man will be dead three days and three nights. He actually uses that phrase. And so people, when they do the math,

they're like, well, wait a minute, it was three days, but to say three days and three nights, it doesn't seem to fit if you read all the accounts. And so I think the more important point of what they're saying is the multifacets of what he's accomplishing through his death as in fulfillment to what happened in Exodus with the Passover and what all this means and how it relates to humanity. So because I just went through those three things. Well, not only did he die for our sins,

but he also liberated us from the powers that hold us captive, which is, i.e. Pharaoh and the nation. And not only did he do that, but he's also becoming the first fruits from the dead, which is not the only place in First Kingdom is 15. That also says that in Colossians 1. and there's other places, which was the fulfillment of that, oh, given the fruits, because from the earthly fruits, well, God was providing that also.

You know, think of all the verses that says, does he not give rain and the crops come up? And there's so much in the Bible about fruits. And, I mean, this is all coming from God also in a physical way, which to me, what makes this all exciting is when you get to something like Romans 8, And then you're seeing that not only are we liberated from our bondage decay because we have the spirit, if the spirit is living in you, the one that raised Jesus from the dead, which is Romans 811, it will give life to your mortal body. But then he goes to the whole creation, the earth itself later on in Romans 8.

So it's just fantastic, which is where you get this idea of a new heaven and a new earth, a new creation. So that's why I was just wanting to point this out. Don't just get stuck on one thing about what Jesus is accomplishing. It's multifaceted is the way I would put it. Did you mention Isaiah 53? I did not. I think it's an interesting thing too, connecting it with the fruit. Because that's obviously the Jesus is the suffering servant in Isaiah 53.

And it's when Pilot is like, you realize I have the authority to kill you, and Jesus is like, you have no authority except what's been given to you by my Heavenly Father, which I think is a nod back to Isaiah 53, which is, I was going to say that earlier, but then you were mentioned in the fruit, and Jesus being the first fruit, listen to the language in Isaiah 53, this prophecy. Who has believed what he has heard from us, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? For he grew up before us like a young plant and like a root out of the, dry ground.

You get the picture, even in this, even in the suffering servant of a plant that's emerging and that fruit's going to come from whatever this suffering servant is, whoever he is, he had no form or majesty that we should look at him and no beauty that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief. And as one from whom men hid their faces, he was despised and, we esteemed him not. And then this goes on and on. And you start to, as you read through this, you realize, like, this is like, he's talking about the death of Jesus here and what's going to

happen to Jesus. And that verse 10, going back to who really had the authority in the sacrifice that Jesus made, Jesus is giving his life up. And the point is, verse 10 says it was the will of the Lord to crush him. So was it, when Piedit's like, you realize I had the authority to crush you, Jesus is saying, actually, it was the will of the Lord to crush him, and he has put him to grief when his soul makes an offering for guilt. He shall see his offspring and shall prolong his days. The will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. And so Jesus is that suffering servant. In Isaiah 53, he is now in the act of actually being the suffering servant, and the imagery there in Isaiah 53

starts with the imagery of of a plant that grows and sprouts and produces fruit. And it's the first of its kind. Obviously, no one in every day. It's the new Adam. It's the new Exodus. It's all of it in Jesus. Well, and it's a good point because ultimately then

that passes on to us as fruit bearers when we're renewed, even on earth. I mean, before the resurrection, which is a crucial thing for us as well. So you're right. imagery is all over the place. And you look back at those Old Testament verses where he's called the root, the branch, all those different things as well. And then we abide in him.

I was curious, Al, what were you, you had mentioned next to this 34. So how was, what was your connection? Well, actually, actually, I went back and looked at that. I was, I was doing some, it is in this text. I was looking into the mer, you know, this, you know, the thing that was mixed with his wine, that they tried to give him to drink. And that took me back to this altar of incense. So it was a different point than I thought it was. But it is amazing how that is all over the place, too. The deeper, I went into a Jace Rabbit on that because I was looking at the birth of Jesus, like the gifts, you know, they were brought by the magi.

And this murr was all over the place. And I still haven't quite gotten to what it means because I'm still working on the background of that particular thing. But it was also present at his death. And you see it first brought up in Exodus. It was part of the incense that went on. So I haven't come to my conclusion yet, but I will. But it was interesting that so many of these like little bitty details that John brings in, as Jay said, they're crucial because these were tipping points to what should have been recognized but wasn't. Yeah.

And they didn't really recognize that I don't think until later. Well, Exodus 23 is echoes what I read in Leviticus. Is it 23 also? Yeah. Yeah, Exodus 23. So is there as well. If you go there, yeah, he has the Sabbath laws in verse 10. For six years, you go to sow your fields and harvest the crops, which same idea.

But during the seventh year, let the land lie unplowed and unused, then the poor among you, your people may get food from it. And then look, the next paragraph, the three annual festivals, verse 14, the three times a year you ought to celebrate a festival to me. Celebrate the feast of the unleavened bread for seven days. Eat bread made without yeast as I commanded you. So, I mean, you get the idea, the same concept. But what kind of hit me is I went back and read John 6. and if you, especially since he said, here's the man, if you kind of go back to where we've been, because I keep getting asked questions from people about this who are having,

they have a different view of this narrative for whatever reason. And, but I keep going back to what we've already studied. And what I noticed in John 6th, I mean, this is quite fascinating because it echoes John 3, when he says, and it's kind of an idea, which is another facet of what Jesus is accomplishing, which is bringing heaven and earth back together, and maybe we didn't make this point as good as we should have, but if you go back to chapter 6 in verse 31, of course, he's speaking about what is the work. This is in response to a question of verse 28. They asked him, what must we do to do the work God requires?

And Jesus said, well, the work of God is to believe in the one he is sent. I'm sure that was a mic-drop moment. Like what? But when he gets to 31, he explains that, which is echoing my point here about why he chose the Passover and then fulfills also the unleavened bread festival and also the first fruits. He says in 31, our forefathers ate the manna in the desert as it is written. He gave them bread. And here's the key phrase to understand all this, from heaven. This is coming from heaven. You're trapped on earth. To get back to my Romans 8 passage, you know, the earth is in a bondage

of decay, and so are the people. That's why it says in Romans, as in, you know, when Adam, sin, he, in a way, brought death to all men. We're trapped in this decay. So watch what he says. So he's from heaven. And then it says, verse 32, I tell you the truth, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my father who gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world. So you see, it's from heaven coming to the earth to fulfill this problem.

Sir, they said from now on, give us this bread. And he's like, I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry. He who believes in me will never be thirsty. But as I told you, you have seen me and still don't believe. All that the father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me, I will never drive away. for I have, and here's this phrase again, come down from heaven, which he says it over and over, verse 41, I am the bread that come down from heaven.

They're like, how can you say, verse 42, that you came down from heaven? And so back to what I'm reading in John 6, verse 39, it says, and this is the will of him who sent me that I shall lose none of them that he's given me, but raised them up at the last day. for my father's will is that everyone who looks to the son and believes in him shall have eternal life. Well, that's the liberation from the bondage of decay. And so just to piggyback that to John 3, so you remember the conversation he had with Nicodemus? Here's the Jewish leader.

He sees the signs, and he's like, I mean, the only way you could do that is if you were from God. and then Jesus has that famous line, you can't see the kingdom of God unless you're born again. And he's like, well, how can I be born again? And he said, I tell you the truth, unless he's born a water and spirit. Then he makes this statement that's very controversial in the religious world because people have different takes on it. But it's like flesh gives birth to flesh,

but the spirit gives birth to spirit. Well, then he clarifies that with this same idea in John 6th, when he gets down to in John 3 where he says verse 12, I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe. How then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? It's the same narrative. So the flesh gives birth to flesh.

Your man was made from the dust. You're claiming that you're right with God because you're from the nation of Israel, God's chosen people, but it's an earthly, you have an earthly existence. I'm speaking to you of heavenly things. So then verse 13 says, no one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven,

the son of man. Why is he saying this? So I think you can only figure it out when you read that verse that we read a couple of podcasts ago about 1st Corinthians 15. Here is the point. The point he's making is 1st Corinthians 15, 47, after read John 3 and John 6.

the first man was of the dust of the earth. The second man came from heaven. It's the same identical narrative in John 3 and John 6 about you can't fix your problems from an earthly viewpoint. That's why I came from heaven to fix this. It's not about eating this bread. You know, in John 6th, they were just, he said, you're not even coming for the signs.

You're coming because you like that bread and fish. But he's like. Because he got your fill. Well, exactly, but he refused to come to me. So back to 1st Gaines 15, verse 48, as was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth. Well, what's going to happen? You're going to die. The context, 1st, Corinthians 15, is the resurrection.

Yeah. And as is the man from heaven, so also are those are of heaven. And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly band, and we did that take on that, so shall we wear the likeness of the man from heaven. I mean, it's over and over, but if you don't apply that, heaven and earth contrast, then we get off on all these sorts of doctrines on what flesh giving birth to flesh actually means. And, you know, we're debating on what we need to do to respond to Jesus in this text.

That was not his point. His point was, I came from heaven and I'm here on earth. You need to listen to me. I'm sent from God. I got this. I'm going to make all this make. sense and ultimately destroy sin, death, and the powers that contribute to those two things. No, that's really good, Jase.

We're going to take a break and we come back on the other side of the break. One of our partners for our podcast is this story of Jesus. Their whole mission is to share that with kids around the world. So we're going to have a conversation about that when we come back from the break. So welcome back to Unashamed. We have one of our sponsoring partners, which we have amazing sponsors. Would you agree, Zach? I mean, we have some folks that I think since kind of we went out on our own, we're

able to really partner with people that kind of have the same heart we do in terms of the gospel. And Paul Marty is one of those guys from Tomorrow Close. Welcome, Paul, back to the podcast. Oh, great to be with you guys. Thanks for having me. If you're watching, by the way, I did have to put a coat on, Paul. I feel back because you're from Minnesota and I said it's so cold here and he was like well how cold is it

I said about 25 or 30 he said it gets 30 below where he's from so he he didn't have a lot of compassion for me no no it's yeah I was like hold my popsicle and watch exactly all it's speechless because he doesn't want to state the obvious that Zach now looks like he needs a hug he just he's got his park on yeah I would never do that

even in public because people would say wow jorsack and jesus sitting there in front of a nice roaring fire behind him you know if you're watching

you see that so so Paul tell us tell us a little bit about what you guys are into with tomorrow clubs you guys have been sponsors for a while

on the podcast we love what you're doing obviously we have a heart and love for Africa. I've been there several times to different countries. It's, you know, but you guys are all over the world. But tell us a little bit about kind of what's going on right now with Tomorrow Club. We're to start with that. I guess maybe I'll, I'll start with our, we have a 2030 vision, which is something new. We are hoping to reach 100,000 kids and teens

having them be a regular part of Tomorrow Club meetings every week by the year 2030. So that's a that's a hundred thousand for you guys 100,000 kids. So yeah, yeah. So that's that's our new vision. We're excited about that. And most of the growth we feel is going to happen in the continent of Africa because it's so ripe for growth.

It's, yeah, you know, it's just amazing that, I mean, there's, there's so many things about that that make it a tremendous opportunity. In fact, the, The Barnard Research Foundation Barner Research predicted that by the year 2050, a third of the children in the world

are going to be in Africa. So, and just in global Christianity in general, it's, you know, so much of that has moved to the south. And by the south, I don't mean Louisiana.

I mean the, the southern hemisphere. In fact, about 66 out of 100 Christians are now in Africa, Asia, and Latin America. So, yeah, so we think that's where Christianity is headed, and we want to reach the young people there with the gospel. Yeah, one of the things that really drew us to you guys is that, and we talk about this on the podcast a lot, too, is it's not, you know, we talk a lot about salvation. and what we're saved from, but so often we don't emphasize enough who we're saved to, and we're actually saved to a life in Christ, and to really experience that, it is a,

it's kind of a longer-term play. It's like, we're looking, what does real discipleship look like? And what it really looks like is a long obedience in the same direction, as I think Eugene Peterson said that, or Nietzsche or somebody, but it's true. It's a long obedience in the same direction. And that's what we love about you guys, because you're not just trying to, like, get people to an altar call. You're actually walking with these people for years. And some of my favorite stories that I've heard out of the tomorrow clubs is that as those ones where you have somebody comes in from off the streets and they come in maybe for a soccer game, they end up developing a relationship with the leaders in that tomorrow club. And then those kids end up finding a relationship with Christ,

and then they end up leading tomorrow clubs. And that's pretty common for you guys, correct? I mean, You guys are kind of seeing that turn ever quite a bit. Oh, yeah. That's one of the awesome things about it. I think there's so many of our current leaders started out as Tomorrow Club members and, you know, grew in over the years and their relationship with Christ and are now leading others, other young people to, to God, or they're involved in discipling others. Have you experienced persecution or some of the places you've been in in Africa? because, Jase, we were talking about, was it Nigeria? Yeah.

Yeah, there was. I was wondering that too, because I think now when you hear the word Africa, because there's this onslaught going against Christians now. So I was just wondering, you know, your take on that or how are y'all being mindful of that. Yeah, you know, in the places in Africa that we work, we work in Zimbabwe and South Africa, you know, both of those are, they're Christian nations. And I know, like, countries like Nigeria, even though. You know, there's there's so much, there's so much growth in Christianity.

There's also so much persecution. But I think what we, what we face in the places that we work is more just, well, basically just a lack of discipleship. I think, you know, they're Christian nations, but they're really just not reaching the kids. There's typically there's a church in most of the places that we work. And we work in really remote communities. I mean, for some reason, God's called us to do work in places where other people aren't serving. So what we've, you know, what we basically are facing is just kind of just that lack of discipleship. And in these communities, too, I mean, there's all kinds of problems.

I think of in Zimbabwe, a lot of the communities that we work in. And these are rural communities where life is really tough. But one of their biggest issues is teen pregnancies and early marriage. And it's just amazing, you know, reaching the kids with with the gospel early and helping them learn to follow Jesus has made a tremendous difference in the communities. In fact, one of a, there was a pastor I talked with in one of our last trips who said, and I love this because it just sums it up. He says, you know, as a church, sometimes you neglect children.

You don't give them much time. But the vision you've brought has changed our mindset. We're concentrating more on children, and we realize it's going to change our community. And I think that's, you know, that's just typical of what we see in the communities that we're working. That, you know, the churches just aren't mindful of how powerful learning to follow Jesus at an early age is and how much it can really change the course of their community. Well, and it kind of goes along with, I know my, my, my. forays into Africa, there's kind of a mindset there of survival of the fittest. And it's almost like children don't even get recognized much until you've kind of made it through those early years. And so

I don't know if that's part of it, why that neglect is there that you're describing, that you wouldn't pour into that. I know that I noticed the same thing. It tends to be adult-oriented. As we know from our experiences with camps, I mean, Zach and Jason and I have tremendous experience with our own camp experiences as young people and how powerful that was. I mean, to get that seed planted in a young age. And even if you wander from the truth, as I did for a few years, you know, because it was planted in you. Do you guys see that in Africa as well? Oh, yeah, absolutely true. I mean, it's really, you know, just to be seen and not heard. It's, you know, as far as their attitude towards children, very adult oriented. And, you know, we're trying to

change that. And it's working. It reminds me of our childhood. You know, our parents moved out in the middle of nowhere because they had come to Jesus. But then the sound of that was great. But in order to make a living, when I look back on being kids, they weren't around much because we were just scraping together. And so I think you've times that times a hundred and you got some of the communities you're going where they're just so focused on survival that the kids get. lost in the shuffle. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. We're super excited to be partners with Tomorrow Clubs. We love what you're doing for us to help us get the gospel out through the podcast, but also we're excited that Unashamed Nation gets to be a part of what you're doing. So

2030, that vision, we're a part of that. Hey, Paul, why don't you give us a place we can send people that want to be a part of this? I would encourage everybody to give. We'll also put the link in the show notes as well, so you guys can click on the link that Paul is going to give us. But this will be a place where we all can go and give to the ministry here. And yeah, we want to see this happen. We want to see 100,000 children reached for Christ by 2030 in the continent. A lot of this is going to be in the continent of Africa, but all over the world. So I want you to partner with us. Paul, where can we send people to? Yeah, you can send people to tomorrowclubs.org slash unashamed. So that's

Tomorrowclubs.org slash unashamed. And we love the fact that you guys, you guys are very efficient in what you do. I like to say you throw nickels around like manhole covers. You're not wasting a lot of money. You guys are very lean. I mean, the money that people give is going

straight to these kids and it doesn't take a lot either. So we really pray that you'll be successful, mainly because we want to see these kids come to know Jesus. So thank you for being a part of the Unashamed family and we're just thankful to have you on this this afternoon. Oh, well, I'm so thankful to be here. Thank you guys for what you do. You're awesome. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by

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