Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1217 | Missy & Brighton Open Up About the Moments They Felt Abandoned by God

Episode Date: November 26, 2025

Missy and daughter-in-law Brighton join Jase and Al for a conversation on the power of mentorship, generational faith, and surviving the chaos of early motherhood. Brighton opens up about feeling overwhelmed, spiritually starved, and learning to carve out time with God while raising children. Missy shares the life-changing wisdom she received from older women during her own exhausting season, and Jase admits he was probably a big contributor to her stress. Everyone shares what Jesus’ crucifixion means to them personally and imagine walking in Mary’s shoes to the foot of the cross. In this episode: John 19, verses 1–30; John 20; Genesis 3; Genesis 3, verse 15; Psalm 22; Psalm 69; Psalm 31, verse 5; Leviticus 16; Exodus 13; Acts 17; Romans 8, verses 3–4; Luke 1, verse 38; Hebrews 2 Chapters: 00:00-06:56 Brighton is officially a contributor 06:57-17:01 How to intentionally seek time with Jesus 17:02-25:23 Phil’s gift for telling hard truths 25:24-32:07 What does the crucifixion mean to you? 32:08-40:01 Psalm 22 predicts Jesus’ death exactly 40:02-47:53 Jesus wanted answers from God on the cross 47:54-57:13 Brighton’s big announcement — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashame. I call this, Jace, upgrade 2.0. This is awesome. Not only have we maintained Missy from the last episode, Zach is still gone. And so we're happy about that for our anti-ZAC people. And for you who listen to that episode, we're now nicknaming him one-eyed Zach. because of his family photo pick in the wedding. But we have upgraded 2.0 to Brighton.

Brighton, welcome back to Unashame. Yeah, thank you for having me. So you're now a contributor. Yeah, you're now a contributor to Unashamed. People loved your episode. You guys did in Nashville. Missy you said it was fantastic. Fantastic.

I didn't cry at any time while she was on it, but as soon as I quit listening to it and it was over, I shed a few tears. It was amazing, Brighton. It was amazing. Thank you. That's so nice. Well, what I loved about it, Brighton, was that one of the things that a lot of people said about you on the last episode, the time you were on was how vulnerable you were to just tell about your life and yours and Reed's marriage and early life and just, you know, what the podcast had meant to you.

So it was really good. So we've been wanting to have you back on just to do a normal podcast. And so we're excited to have you on today. Thank you. I didn't know that I'd been named a regular contributor now. That's right. Well, this is your third time. So I think, yeah, you're official now.

And this all started off from us kind of becoming Bible study buddies, which I do a lot of discipleship stuff with young men and Missy had talked about this mentoring. But I never knew that I was going to kind of have that relationship with my daughter-in-law. But it's been very special to me because you asked great questions. and come up with some great biblical thoughts on your own, which is very impressive. Yeah, thank you. I mean, you've been super helpful in my study. Well, and I love the idea that we're represented here by generational faith, and that's important.

I want to give a shout out to our friends at Family Research Council. We talk about them quite a bit because their whole idea is that the country was founded on the idea of generational faith. I mean, we were founded on Christian Judeo-Christian principles. and that carries forward. And that takes effort. And these guys are in D.C. They're making the effort for us. They defend biblical truth.

They defend religious liberty. And they're there to try to make sure families understand that we do this going forward. And we love these guys for that. Their motto is pray, vote, stand. And so we stand with them. If you want to help FRC, keep defending what matters most.

Visit FRC.org slash Unashamed to learn more. So, Brian, we had talked about at the end of our last podcast, as Missy told about the importance of mentoring and how she's began this process of, well, you had three different, four different weekends, actually. Right. So of women your age. And so I would love to know your perspective on that. How, how, do you mind tell us how old you are?

You're not supposed to ask a woman how old as she is, but do you mind tell me? No, I don't mind. I'm 29. 29. So Missy had said 22 to 32 is kind of her age range for that. But what would you add to that on being in that age range, the importance of finding mentors or being willing to be mentored? How important do you think that is?

Oh, man. I think it's so important. Even because, like, as a mom of three and being pregnant, it's so easy to just kind of get in the weeds of, like, daily tasks that I'm having to do in, like, making sure I'm stewarding the kids well and being a good wife. And I think it can be hard to just kind of lose focus of like, where am I, like, what direction am I heading? And I even went to a baby shower this weekend and there was some older women there.

And one of them, I just said how I was feeling kind of overwhelmed lately. And she just started like pouring out wisdom without even like thinking too much about it, it seemed like. So I think it's so important just to like have that little boost of encouragement and take a step back through like a mentor sharing with you to kind of see like what direction you're heading here like that you you have kingdom goals I guess yeah because we talk a lot about the importance of community and peers and that's that is important to have people you're sharing life with all of us we kind of did that together when we first started doing ministry because we're not that you know

we're four years apart and jason i've been to school together and so when we those first what probably seven or eight years. We were doing house church together, raising our families. Every day. Every day. We were doing something in ministry. But it is, and you mentioned this, that is so important to not just have your peers to rely on, but then you need some wisdom coming in from people that have lived it a while.

Yes. And they've done some things like in Christ that can then add that on to you. No doubt about that. I think about, I was even asked this last weekend, did I have a specific time during the that I would devote myself to quiet time with the Lord. When my kids were little, I said, no, I did not. Because our school was 30 minutes away. We had to get up at 6.30 in the morning, get the kids up at 6.30 in the morning.

It was just that when you said I'm feeling overwhelmed with three and you're pregnant, those days are just, I remember every 60-second increment mattered, like getting them in the car, getting them strapped in, getting them to the school. those were such hectic days and I remember feeling kind of a weight of guilt that I wasn't spending enough quiet time with the Lord and one of my mentors during a class time at church said it's so difficult when you are raising littles but when you have that baby on the changing table and you are wiping that little honey you can have some quiet time with the Lord right then in that 30 seconds to 60 seconds just thanking him for this child.

asking him for wisdom and raising this child. He doesn't require large sets of times that you don't have. He just requires an ongoing relationship because that's what he wants from you. And so I thought that was really good wisdom when I was feeling so overwhelmed as well. And I passed that on to others. Now, Brighton, I'm assuming that who's taking care of your kids and dogs right now while you're on the podcast? I'm curious. Reeds downstairs, taking care of them.

I kind of knew that all this because I saw him earlier in the room. He's also a tech guy, too, so he was sitting up for him. So speak to that, Brighton, before we, we're going to get into some texts today because we're in one of the most incredible, amazing sections of scripture, which is in John 19 and then later in 20, when our Lord and Savior was crucified for our sins, which is so important. But I want you to speak to the idea, especially to a lot of young moms, dad's out there as to what you do practically, because you listen to our podcast, you're obviously, and you don't just listen.

I mean, you're active because I've seen your notes. You're right there with us. You're studying. So how do you manage that with having a family? Because a lot of people say, well, it just can't be done. I just got too much going on. There's no way I can do kind of what Missy just described. How do you do it?

What's a practical way? Do you get up earlier? How do you manage that to be able to still have Bible study and be in depth and to listen? and yet still raise your kids and do what you do and be there for your husband as well. How do you do that? Yeah, totally. I mean, it's definitely not perfect. And I will say that I used to be that person that was like there's just no time for me to do it.

But then if there's not any time, when am I ever going to start doing it? And I think it was like kind of intimidating to start because I'd never really studied the Bible. And so listening to the podcast helped me just kind of get a jump start and like have a place to start. Otherwise, I'm opening the Bible. And like, I don't really, like, I understand it, like, for what it is plainly reading it. But, like, I'm not getting any of the depth from it. And so I just had to start. And I think I mentioned this whenever I was on last time.

I had to start when Reed was out of town because I was like, I feel like I am just spiritually starved and physically, like in all areas. Like, I just feel like I'm failing. And so not that that. looks perfect now, I will say, especially since being pregnant, I've slacked a lot. But I do notice in my attitude, and I feel like especially how I am as a wife, like mostly in the category of wife do I see when I'm not in my Bible, because it's easy to like give everything you have to your kids and kind of then just like leave the scraps for your husband, like when he gets home at the

end of the day. But I am not good at waking up early since being pregnant. I feel like I just need the full time that I'm sleeping. So I usually take the time when my kids are napping to study. Can I just add to that? Because I'm going to brag on Brighton for a second because she is such a good mom. She's so intentional that she puts her kids down, three, two, and one. at 12.30 in the afternoon, and they sleep until four. And then they go to bed. Fran goes to bed at what, 6.45 at night and sleep until 7 in the morning. And same with Maris and David. And so she's, that's not just, oh, you got lucky. She trained them to do that. And so I remember when she did Maris the first time, when Maris was sleeping that afternoon. And Jay said, wow, that's really amazing that she's doing that.

And Brighton said, it's really amazing for me, because I feel like. I'm a better mom if I have those three hours in the afternoon to just kind of reset and refocus. And now she's using some of those afternoons intentionally to listen and to study to the podcast and get caught up. So I think it's amazing. And I will say I feel like I look at it like there's all these different categories that I can be doing. Like, I mean, housework is such a big one. I feel like for moms. But this weekend, when I was talking about earlier, how an older woman in my church was really pouring into me, she put it in a really good way that as moms, so much of our job in wives is lowering our expectations for everything.

Like, it's not all going to be perfect. So I have to lower my expectations for the housework and the cleanliness, lower my expectations for my kids, It's lower my expectations for my husband and myself. Just drop the bar. Yeah. Yeah, like no one's going to be perfect. And so if I'm going to choose to study my Bible during nap time, then maybe I don't get the laundry done.

And maybe the house is messy when the kids wake up from nap, because I also want to rest for a little bit too. Which is really the whole tent, the Martha Mary tension, right, from those episodes where you saw those two sisters with you. Jesus. I mean, one was definitely the, let's make sure everything's taking care of a person. The other one was like, it's important for me to sit and listen to Jesus and bid his feet. And he appreciated them both. But then at the same time, he had to chide a little bit and say, look, you got to put first things first, right? I mean, that's kind of the...

I mean, this is going back to Genesis 3, even in the garden where in the curses that are being doled out. But that Genesis 315, which is where we kind of go back to the introduction that God would somehow come to this earth as a man from the woman's offspring and this kind of spiritual battle would occur that Jesus would ultimately win. But I just think there's something powerful about God choosing that way because just listening to Brighton talk is so exhausting. Can you imagine heaven? Because now I, now I, Bradent's exhausted just listening to it. I feel like I need a nap just because she went through. Because we all know when I was, when Missy had our little kids.

Because you realize now, I think I've reached an age where I realize I was just another form of a kid from her perspective. I'm glad you said that actually. Well, because I know Reed. And you famously went off and left your kids at home on their own on multiple occasions. Two times out of 10 million. but it was technically a percentage. And it wasn't Reed. No, it wasn't Reed.

It was a quiet. Just to show you how well. You couldn't leave Reed anywhere. Yeah. Well, that's right. Because Cole was so quiet. And, I mean, Reed would have said he had just been on my heels, which he was. But having said all that, babe, after all the panic of me leaving young Cole, when the neighbor went over there,

he's sitting there with his little backpack and he's packed up and he's just sitting there waiting on a ride like a gentleman waiting he he got it so not the goal it's not the goal but but anyway i just wanted to bring that out because i think you see the power of a mother's love and uh the way the bible highlights that in that way i mean the creator of the universe of all i mean could have just popped out of the sky i mean to to to come out and through a woman is just absolutely incredible. Well, and I love the idea of what you're describing in Brighton, that it takes effort and it takes effort to be spiritually minded as much as it does to take care of your family

and to be a good wife or a good husband. It takes effort in all those areas. But you're not just going to magically all of a sudden have a more spiritual view of the world unless you spend time with God, unless you build that relationship. It's so important. You said that one of the motivating factors for you getting into the Bible in a deep way was wanting to train your kids, which you have a lot of them. Yeah, it is because I feel like that if you don't have like a biblical foundation for like how you're disciplining your kids,

it's easy to sit there and question yourself, which you do that anyways. Like am I doing this right? Is this the right like the way I'm supposed to correct them? But then when you have that biblical foundation for parenting, you can trust in the Lord in that and know that he's promised that it's going to be fruitful in the end if we trust in him and follow his commands. Generational faith. So I woke up, well, actually last night, someone sent me an email of a story about a young man who had given his life to Christ this weekend. And his wife is nine months pregnant. Well, she's his wife now.

She was his girlfriend as of two days ago. Nine months pregnant, baby due today, as we're recording, and had been trying to get him to come and meet with their church. And he was unwilling to do it. But he found a video of our dear old dad. And I was thinking about this when Brighton was talking here, you're talking about your guy's grandchildren. And dad had done this video. spoke at a church in Dallas years ago. And this guy came across it this weekend.

And so his wife's been trying to get him to come. So imagine this. She's had her little small group praying that trying to get him to come to Christ and, you know, in hopes like we all do that our family is going to know more about Jesus. But it was dad's lesson that he did that impacted this guy and just broke through. And so all of a sudden, when the wife gets home, he's like, I'm ready. I'm ready to do this. I just listen to this guy, Phil Robertson.

He's not even alive anymore. I mean, just think about the power of the gospel. And it goes beyond even death. And he's like, I'm ready to do this. He said, but look, we got to get married. We got to get married for this baby's born. I got to get right with God. I want to be baptized, and we got to get married.

And so yesterday they went to this church. He got baptized, and they sent me a video of it. It's very neat. And then they got married. And today they're having their child, which is awesome. You think about a life change in a weekend, and then it led three other couples who knew this couple,

who were living together to say, you know what, we need to get all in on our commitment, which means we need to do this right. And so I just, I love that idea that what we're talking about here and we're represented with all these generations on this set, with Dad's memory, with Bright and with you, your children, the idea that the gospel and the good news of Jesus

and what he's done for our lives carries on for generation to generation to generation. Well, even in real time right now for your children at such young ages to understand that they have to be downstairs right now and they have to be a bit more quiet. They can't be upstairs playing in the playroom because mama's doing a biblical podcast with J-Rock and Lulu, you know.

So for them to understand that this is important enough where, you know, our routine might be. be out of whack a little bit, but mom's doing a Bible study. And that's amazing to me for them to know that. And that's what was happening in our home that Reid has talked about recently that he kind of took for granted, too, of how much Bible study was going on in our home when he was growing up. And so I love it. I hope all of our children take that for granted because then when they get older, they just think it's what you're supposed to do. Yeah, totally. And even if like you're, because we're not doing it perfect, by even,

think about we lead Bible study at our house every other Tuesday with another couple. And that is a lot of work right now. Yes. Getting everything ready and then especially if Reed's leading because then he's studying all the way up until it starts. And but I think it's so good and it's going to be so rewarding when our kids have those memories of us, just like Reed does, like what you were just saying with y'all. I always like it when Reed, he'll send me a question about something. And I've figured out now it's usually the same day that y'all are doing your small grief.

So I'm like, okay, he wants to run this. He wants to run this. He's not long ago, and he did no context. And then you sent like a long response, and then a couple hours later, he started laughing because all you sent was, how'd it go? He didn't even say that we had done Bible study. You just knew. He knew.

And then he called me. He's like, I got you on the speaker. But I like that we're doing this as a family, which is, I think, the way it should be. And Al, kudos to that church where you told that story, but I kept thinking, well, kudos to them for not running these people off. For living in sin. And, you know, our dad. You're patient. I know our dad is no longer with us, but he had a gift from God about meeting people, being real blunt with Jesus.

And then the implications of this decision, he just had a way of saying things that you would think would hurt their feelings. Because he would be like, now look, you look, come to Jesus, great. Now, when are we going to sign on the dotted line? You can't keep getting in this girl's britches. Yeah, that's... But even that... If he had been talking to this couple, if they had been actually his living room,

he said, now, this is your wife, you're married to this woman? No, we're living together. Well, right off the bat, we've got a problem. It would just be very open about it. But you're right, Jay's. It was where they were. They were welcome to be there

to hear the good news of who Jesus is. It wasn't like, go away and come back once you know better. When I started sharing Jesus with my friends at 16, I would bring some of them down there because they would want to hunt or fish. And if so crazy, I had to start warning them because, like, my dad would ask them questions when they came in. What are you into? Are you dating any of these girls? And if they said- Did that to his grandchildren too.

He did that to everyone. But they would say, yeah, I'm dating a girl. And he'd say, are you getting in her pants? Well, look, you ask somebody point blank. If they are, it's such a. a shocking question. They answered the truth. They did. Or they paused, and if they pause, he'd say, come over here and sit down. Let me share something with you. But then he would talk about Jesus, and he would ask questions

that their parents should have been asking is like, where's this headed? I mean, if they were, you know, living in sin. He was like, well, this is your plan? You don't even have a job. I mean, what's going to happen here? This is nothing good. And it's so amazing how it made people take a look at their life, take a look about what they think about God, the creator, the Bible, and then you just start, you know, let God make these changes in your life. Well, we, Jay, as we've talked about so much, the idea beyond just the idea of knowing the law and then I'm a law breaker, the idea that I have a conscience that tells me inwardly things that I know don't seem to be right versus things that are wrong.

And everybody has that. And some people can really push that far away, but for most people, it's right there. And this young man, who we mentioned earlier, I mean, dad broke through, but I can guarantee he's known all along. He needed something more than what he had. And then when someone finally showed him what that was, it was like, well, I got to do something about it today. And they did.

And praise God for this. I want to hear more about their story, too. All right, I want to get into this text because we got half our podcast list. I want to get y'all's take on it. because this is the pivotal part. Obviously, Brighton, you've been, I don't know if you're caught up to where we are in the text, but we've set up this whole thing. We've spent a long time in these last few chapters because there's been this sort of mock trial that's gone on.

And every force that was around Jesus has seemingly been working against him. You know, pilot being kind of the biggest role, but then others as well. And so now we're at this pivotal moment where first, We call it the halfway death. A pilot has him scourged, and it's a terrible, awful thing that happened. If we watched the passion, and Mel Gibson really showed us visually how brutal this idea was, the beating that Jesus took. And the idea was to make you wish you were dead.

I mean, that's the idea. It's a humiliation tactic. But now he's turned him over to be crucified, which is another whole round of humiliation and terrible thing. And so this is where he's at. And so he's hanging on the cross. And that's where we're at in our text. But I wanted to ask you both this, like when you think about this whole scene of what Jesus did, and there's a lot of specifics in here about things he said and all that we'll get into at some point.

But how just the crucifixion itself, the scourging, I mean, how does that personally impact you? Either when you watch it, when you read it, when you talk about it. I mean, how does that impact you personally? Brighton, we'll start with you. just the idea of what Jesus went through for you, for your sins, for my sins, for the sins of the world. Yeah, I feel like that it's a little unimaginable, honestly, to think of, like, that he did that for me personally. And when I've been studying, I've been thinking about, like, what's, like, the ultimate purpose of why he did this? Like, it is for our sin.

but why is like sin a problem? Because when you think about going back to the garden, like now because of sin and because of the curse, we can't dwell with God anymore. And all of these things that they were doing in the Old Testament were never going to be enough. You had to continue to make sacrifices and continue to have offerings.

And like I did a lot of study on the day of atonement. And Jesus, to now here is willing to be the final Passover lamb and the final atonement so that we can forever dwell with God. And I feel like for me, that puts it so much more in like a loving, like God is so loving and merciful that he would do that because he wants to come be with us. And it's not some like, it just feels so much more personal than it being this far off thing that he did for like the whole world. Like he wants to walk with me daily and for me to be able to have access to him.

I think about some of those moments when he was being scourged, when he was standing there, when Pilot was trying to explain to him that the authority was his, why wouldn't he want to talk Pilot into helping him, you know, and Jesus knowing he is all things, he's created all things. He's created everyone. There is no time and space that is bound unless it's bound by him. And it's like, it's so, now that when you understand who Jesus is, it's, it makes me feel sorry for Pilate because he didn't understand that. The high priests, it makes me angry at them because they had been waiting and praying for this to happen. and when it finally did because it wasn't their idea

and it wasn't on their terms, they were going to sacrifice this man who had done nothing but speak. Nothing violent was Jesus ever did, of course. Reminds me of someone else recently who was murdered for their own words. Yeah. But again, going back to being personal,

he could have said, you know, I know that there's no, other way for these people to get back to the Father because we cut ourselves off. We are no longer holy. We can't be holy without Jesus. There is no other way, but Father, I just really don't want to do it. Yeah. And they're just not worth it. You know, they are the scum of the earth. They are bad, terrible. And he didn't. He chose to go along with the

father's plan and the father's will, even though it was going to just, he was going to suffer so much. That's how much he loved us. Yes, there was no other way, but he could have said no. And man, I'm so grateful

that he said yes. That whole different story then, wasn't it? Yes. I kind of took it like you, Missy. It's because I knew that they knew, they had the prophecies, they had the prophets, they had all the scriptures that Jesus has been mentioning the whole time, and yet they chose to not believe that he was who he said he was. And in fact, even the high priest predicted earlier in John 11 that for the death of one man, it would be better for Israel. And it was true. It was true. But for all the wrong reasons that they had. So I'm like

you, I reserve more ire, I guess, towards them. But then at the end of the day, I look at my own life and think, you know, I needed him just as much as those guys did. Oh, I'm so grateful. I'm on this side of it. Yeah. I don't want to second guess myself of being in that exact moment in time and understanding who Jesus is. I'm glad I wasn't there.

I'm very thankful to be where I am today. And that goes back to Acts 17. God put us in the exact time and place where we were supposed to be so that we will search for him and possibly reach out and find him. That's right. So that's just amazing to me. I don't know. does surprising. Well, y'all brought up two points that I've been studying, and this is, you know, not

planned. But when he quotes Psalm 22 on that, my God, my guy, why have you forsaken me? Because there's like seven statements he made. Right. What I found fascinating. We only get three in John, but you read the rest of them, yeah. What I find fascinating is, because someone wrote a book one time that I looked up and basically made a point that when Jesus said the, you know, things, you can find those things in the Psalms. Yeah. And Psalm 22, there's a case where you can find most of them. Yeah. Just to point this out, Psalm 221 says that, oh, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me so far from the words of my groaning?

But if you read Psalm 22, you see that it's about in the midst of suffering, having the confidence that he's not going to abandon him. And so it kind of makes sense when he's on the cross. If in preparation, all those times that he would go off alone to pray and to meditate, and you're like, what was he doing? What was he doing? So they were making the point. He was reading Psalm 22 a lot.

Probably had it memorized. And that's why I think he says those things, because if you read that whole Psalm, you realize he wasn't trying to say, oh, I don't want to do this. He was saying, in the worst of the worst, because I'll read the next couple of verses, look what it says in Psalm 22. It says in verse 2, oh, my God, I cry out, but you don't answer by night and am not silent. And then verse 3 is very powerful.

Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One. You are the praise of Israel. In you, our fathers put their trust. They trusted, and you delivered them. They cried to you and were saved. in you they trusted and we're not disappointed so it does that throughout the whole psalm so when you get to verse 15 when it says my strength is dried up like a pot shirt and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth well there's another thing he said remember when he said i'm thirsty yeah yeah

and he's like i'm surrounded by dogs a band of evil men has encircled me they have pierced my hands and my feet. I can count all my bones. People stare and gloat at me. And then here's another quote. They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing. But then what's the positive? But you, O Lord, be not far off. You just referenced that. Oh, my strength. Come quickly to help me. Deliver my life from the sword, my precious life from the power of the dogs. Rescue me from the mouth of the lions. And so he continues to do that. And then at the end of the Psalms, very powerful because it says in verse 22, I will declare your name to my brothers in the congregation.

I will praise you, which reminds me of the Hebrew's passage, where he's talking about he became part of the human family and called him brothers. And then it says, verse 24, for he has not despised or disdain the suffering of the afflicted one. He has not hidden his faith from him. He has listened to his cry for. for help. From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly. Before those who fear you, I will fulfill my vows. And it's really a wonderful picture of how, going back to the garden, which is what Brighton said, here's his son listening to his voice during the whole process,

which is why he said over and over and over again, I listen to my father. I'm only doing what he tells me to do. I'm going to trust him in the process, which is the opposite of what Adam and Eve did. He was like, here's the process. Don't go to that tree in the middle of the knowledge of good and evil. But they couldn't help it because it was right there and it was so appealing and it was so easy and they chose not to trust, you know, him in the process. So another thing I wanted to bring up is in John 19, I had never noticed this. When the crowd was hollering crucify him, in John 1915, this is the only time in the Gospels that, that another saying is said, which is take him away.

The significance of that when I looked into that is in Hebrew, that is the phrase for that Azazel, which Brighton and I talked about in our own private discussion on this, because she brought up the Passover and why he chose the Passover. And I got into those three festivals that are combined in the three days, which is the Passover, the day of the, Atonement and the unleavened bread. And then the resurrection was the celebration of the first fruits, which points to the resurrection.

And in the Jewish day, which I've learned, I don't think we've talked about, but they considered any part of the day, the day. And so this was like a 26-hour period because they had the hour before the day, then any part of the day would include the day, and then the hour after. So you combine all that. look that up and you'll see. But he covers all three of those significant celebrations and festivals. But in Hebrew, that take him away is the scapegoat. Clause. You know, I may just be inventing that, but I think in a way you're seeing this play out that he

became the scapegoat, which in that tradition was to take the sins and put it on a live goat, send it out to the wilderness where imagery of this is not where humans belong. The same deal with the sea or whatever. And I found that fascinating. All these things are coming together from creation. And they didn't. I studied a lot on like the two goats. And I thought it was so interesting how to think about like they didn't kill the scapegoat.

They just confessed all the sin on it and then sent it out into the wilderness. And in, let me see, Leviticus 16. Well, 16 is where it explains a lot of like what they were actually supposed to do on the day of atonement. But then let me see. Verse 21, I found this that he says, which is also the person who's confessing over the scapegoat is the high priest. So in this chapter it's Aaron, the brother of Moses, which Jesus, which Jesus, Jesus. Jesus will ultimately become the high priest. So he's confessing over all the iniquities of the people of Israel.

So not even just for individual sins, but for the whole nation of Israel and all their transgressions, all their sins. He shall put them on the head of the goat and send it away into the wilderness. And this is the phrase I did a little more of a deep dive on by the hand of a man who is in readiness. And a man who is in readiness when I looked up that phrase. Well, Reed looked it up too, actually. And he said that that's the only place where that phrase is used in the Bible,

but it's a man who is like called for that purpose, which you would think is foreshadowing Jesus. And also I think it's significant that it says by the hand. Because do you remember that passage in Exodus? I think it's Exodus 13 that says that God delivered them out. out of Israel, I mean, out of Egypt with a mighty hand. And it says a mighty hand over and over and over again. Yeah, it's everywhere.

Yeah. Yeah. And then at the resurrection, when he shows them their hands, I think you guys have talked about that on the podcast before, but just like the sign of liberation and freedom. And for him to send that scapegoat away into the wilderness by the hand of a man in readiness. And the goat shall bear all their iniquities on itself. to a remote area and he shall let the go, go free in the wilderness. So it's doing just so much more.

Like it's the presence of sin is being completely removed from Israel for just that day, for that year, I guess, whereas Jesus is doing it for all of eternity, you know. And then you're right, right? Because the interaction, the intersection of the Passover and the scapegoat, do come together in Jesus because you remember Pilate tries to politically fix this by saying, oh, well, we get to release somebody. One person. One person.

So why don't we release the king of the Jews? Because this is your guy. And they're like, no, give us Barabbas. And so they asked for another scapego who's Barabbas, but he's not worthy. I mean, he's worthy of sin because he was a sinner. But he's not worthy to be the Passover and the scapego. But only Jesus is. I want to bring this up, Jay's because you mentioned about the prophecies.

I'm so glad you went to Psalm 22. But there's two more that add to your point. In Psalm 69, which David also wrote, he says, they put gall in my food and gave me vinegar for my thirst, which is another one of those messianic references. And then in Psalm 30, actually in Psalm 31, 5, he says this, free me from the trap that is set for me,

for you or my refuge, into your hands I commit my spirit, which of course is the last thing he says, you know, before he says it is finished. And I love that idea because remember, he's, he's underneath the sign that says King of the Jews, that Pilate has mockingly put on him, that the Jews are saying, we don't want to say he claims he to be the king of the

Jews, he's really not, but he really is. Here's David, who he's in the Davidic covenant. You know, we know that from Psalm 72, that that goes forward all the way to Christ. And so now all these quotes that he's given on the cross, he's going back to that idea, I am your king. I was born to be the king. That's what you even tell Powell, right?

And to Brighton's point, I mean, he said the same thing in John wrote in John 335. The father loves the son and has given all things into his hand. And then he repeats it before he washes their feet. Jesus knew that the father put all things in his hands, or it's translated under his power. in some translations, and that he had come from God and was returning to God. So I think you're right because Egypt, in a way, represented this empire of captivity, which when you get to the New Testament, you see not only was this a battle against Rome in a kind of indirect way because he'd been handed over, but these corrupt Jewish leaders,

but also the spiritual forces of evil. That's why Jesus was quick to say, think John 16 when he said, you know, in sin and righteousness and judgment. And when he got to judgment, he says because the prince of this world, meaning the evil spiritual existence of the evil one and all that it's about, will be condemned. So it was a lot more going on. I'm glad you brought that up. And I think Jesus is hitting on that, as you see it unfold. Well, there, you know, you're talking about the broad scope of what it means just in the humanity, the scope of humanity, but bringing it back down to that individualized, what does the crucifixion

mean to me specifically? Back to John 19 when one of Jesus's sayings is, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? That was his humanity crying out in a question. He wanted an answer, you know, and we've talked about this recently, but, you know, in John 11, when Lazarus died, you know, Mary and Martha had the ends with Jesus. They were friends with him. And so when they sent word to him to come and to heal their brother, and Jesus didn't show up, not only did he not show up, he didn't show up until four days after Lazarus was dead. What were those four days like to Mary and Martha, who they thought Jesus was their friend, not just their Savior. They knew he was their Savior. But they really thought that they were special to him, and they felt abandoned.

Those four days, they felt abandoned by their God. They didn't know he had bigger plans. They didn't understand it. But to even go back in our circumstance with Mia, when we found out that she had a cleft lip and palate, I'll say this, when I found out that she had a cleft lip and palate, I'll say this, when I found out that she had a cleft of a palate in my womb, I thought that. God, where were you? Weeks ago, when her mouth was being formed at eight to ten weeks old, where were you? Why did you abandon me and her? And I actually, I told Jason, I don't know if I'd ever told him that, but I've told other people, like, there was a lot of things going on in the world. Were you distracted by the war in Iraq? You know, like there was big things happening why maybe you just didn't think we were special enough.

And so to understand now 22 years later, he had a much greater plan for Mia, who is amazing right now. And then, but for Jesus to actually ask that in a moment of suffering his own feeling of abandonment. And we all know he knew the bigger picture. But that's how personal that was to and to me now too. I'm glad you brought that up because the couple of passages that I skipped over in Psalm 22, it actually kind of says what you just said because in verse 7 it says, All who see me mock me, they hurl insult, shaking their heads. He trusts in the Lord, let the Lord rescue him, let him deliver him since he delights in him.

And then here's this deliverance that always happens in the Psalm. Yet you brought me out of the womb. You made me trust in you, even at my mother's breast. From birth, I was cast upon you from my mother's womb. You have been my God. Do not be far from me, which is that again. And I think that's the thing that the evil one tries to use in the temptation process that God's way off.

Can't relate. Why is all this bad stuff? Doesn't care about us personally. Exactly. And in this moment, you're seeing Jesus live perfectly, do everything. do everything right, introduce this kind of heaven and earth concept coming together. Here's God healing diseases through a man and helping people and taking on corruption and all this. And what happens?

Oh, it's wonderful. They ride off into the sunset and all the people are following him. No, he gets killed. He gets insult. And his best friends abandon him. Yeah, everybody leaves him. I mean, it's like, what? What's happening?

which I think is why he brought up this Holy Spirit that's going to be in you, because now you're going to be able to discern in your body, in your thinking, in your reasoning as a new creation of how to deal with all the things that go bad, living in a world that's corrupt, even being a new creation. So, I mean, it's a wonderful, I mean, it's too great to not be of supernatural origin. and make sense of life. He truly can relate to us, which is just a comfort in itself. Right.

I want to ask you one last thing because we're almost out of time. Mary is here, his mother. In fact, N.T. Wright makes an interesting point that she was also there the very first sign, the water to wine at the wedding, because we're talking about wedding in the last podcast, Cole's wedding. In this great occasion, everybody's excited, and she comes to him and wants him to do something about they ran out of wine. And he's like, why are you troubling me, dear woman? It's not my time.

Well, now it is this time. And guess what? She's right there. She's right there watching her son who's been scourged, who's now on the cross. Missy, you have two sons. Brighton, you've got a son. Well, you can make an announcement, Brighton. Yeah, this baby's another boy.

Okay, well, there you go. I didn't know if you were ready to go there. So you will have your second son. So tell me this as a mom, Brighton, putting yourself in Mary's position, that this is your son, you know, you're firstborn in her case. And now you're watching him go through this. And, you know, you believe he's the son of God. I know Mary believed his claims. Absolutely. But here he is now dying. So put yourself in her shoes. How do you deal with that as a mom to have enough trust to say that this is worth it when you're watching something like this? What would you think? Yeah, I think it's

like totally unimaginable putting, you almost can't even think about putting your own child. in that position. But I think it shows the level of trust that she had in the father and in her son and what they were doing in the ultimate purpose for all of this. But I'm sure she had so many thoughts in her head of, is this the only way? That's what I would be thinking. Like, surely there has to be another way or save him right now from this. Like, don't let this go through. And even in those days waiting, I think that that too would be like so even, I don't know.

It's like there's no words to even describe what the waiting would be like. But you know and you trust in the ultimate plan. So it's hard to even put yourself in that position. Maybe too is like if, you know, when someone does die unexpectedly and you know that firsthand in your own family, Brighton. the first thing that parents usually ask is, did they suffer? Yeah. Because the loss is one thing, but to imagine the suffering beforehand is unimaginable. And that would be the worst to be a mom and watching the suffering, knowing that he was born to die.

Yeah. And you had your part in that, and you were used as a tool for that. But to watch your child suffer for hours and hours and be spit on and be, hated so much and there's nothing you can do or should do about it would be very helpless feeling. Except embrace it. And it is interesting that one of the things Jesus said from the cross was about his mom when he told John, he said, woman, behold your son, son, behold your mother, in the sense that he is asking John, we assume it's John, to take care of his mom. And she stayed. Yeah. She didn't, I don't know if I could have sat there and watched that. All the way through.

She stayed and watched the entire thing. Yeah, say that. No, I wouldn't have left. I would have been there the entire time as well. I think the joy is processing this, which is what leads us to Christ. This is how God chose to lead humanity, this story. Because when you think about it, it's the greatest story on explaining evil in the world and what God's going to do about it.

Because that famous verse in Romans 8, 3, and 4, when it's like, he came down here to condemn sin itself, which is we talked about the goat, carrying them off, and free us. Think about all the times. Jesus has freed us from all sorts of things. But it's also the greatest love story. He spent this whole last section talking about, you know, love one another. I'm going to show you washing the disciples' feet and promising the Holy Spirit.

And then it's the greatest comeback story. I mean, just all of those things, once you kind of see it happen and then think, what does this mean? I'm sure his mom thought, I mean, it just made her smile thinking, okay. Yeah. And just imagine when she got the word, he was resurrected. Somebody told her he's back and what that must have felt like. Remember what she said at the very beginning. We'll close with this. And Luke 138, may it be to me, as you have said. So she was a special vessel. And that's important. But I want to hear y'all's take on that too. It's been a blessing having you guys on. We could just keep going for another two more podcast. But we'll have to do this again. Brighton, thank you so much for taking the time. Thank you for being a number one. for having me. Yeah. Thank you, Missy.

See in a couple days, Brighton. Yeah, I'll see you. We'll see you next. Go see if Reed is still sane. Yeah. Good for him. He's going to appreciate what you do. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast.

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