Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 122 | Phil Robertson Is Cut Deep by Thomas Jefferson, Schooling Don Lemon & Why Bad Things Happen

Episode Date: July 31, 2020

Phil, Jase, and Al tackle amateur theologian Don Lemon's ignorance about Jesus and begin a discussion of why God allows bad things to happen to people. But first, Jase talks about the death of Missy's grandmother and why believers can find solace when a loved one dies. Al and Phil talk about Phyllis' inspiring blog. Jase has a bone to pick with how some people interpret the end of "The Outlaw Josey Wales," and he expresses his annoyance with mask manufacturers. And Phil is devastated by one of Thomas Jefferson's failures. Pre-order Jesus Politics by Phil Robertson from Christianbook before 8/3 and get Phil's exclusive video sermon FREE: https://www.christianbook.com/jesus-politics-back-the-soul-america/phil-robertson/9781400210060/pd/21006X?event=ESRCG "I’m Phil Robertson’s Daughter. My Dad’s First 4 Words to Me Were Exactly the Ones I Needed to Hear": https://alandlisarobertson.com/im-phil-robertsons-daughter-my-dads-first-4-words-to-me-were-exactly-the-ones-i-needed-to-hear/ See episodes of "Unashamed with Phil Robertson": https://bit.ly/2J4XsiX   See clips from Phil's TV show "In the Woods with Phil": https://bit.ly/2PNM6k1   To take a FREE 30 Day Trial of Phil's TV show and the rest of BlazeTV: https://www.BlazeTV.com/Phil - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? I was encouraged. I mean, what I've been doing, I guess the Lord lined this up is I keep sharing with young people. I mean, they're just everywhere I go and everything I do. It seems to be about 15 to 25. But I had a thought the other day. I mean, we're going through John.

Missy and I were out at camp Really teaching about worship But my whole deal is I'm not real concerned about how you worship Versus who You fall in love with Jesus which is what we're doing in the book of John But I did have a thought And I was talking to John Luke which he runs the camp out there I forgot if he said it I said it

We were talking about the biggest difference when we were kids when I was I went out to camp as a senior in high school this first time ever but one of us the basic thrust of what we were saying

which was kind of an epiphany was that when we were younger I used to the goal was to go to heaven in my faith that was the goal and you said well it's a good goal

yeah what's wrong with that well now I thought about it that's not really I'm really more thinking I want to be with Jesus forever in heaven which there's a difference because my point is if it's just about your reward without the motivation or the image of God you tend to get do as least as possible it's all these questions we keep reading in john what what must i do what does the lord require or what good thing must i do to you know what the rich young ruler said i mean what what is the what is the reward because i realize yeah there's a reward here but it's more of a focus on jesus because i really don't care where we live doesn't matter that's why you find joy here right right

despite difficulty. Yeah, I said it last Sunday in my sermon that if you get Jesus right, then other things fall in line for all the things you're looking for. I think a lot of our, I read a lot of emails, and we get letters from a lot of our listeners and our viewers of our podcast. And it's interesting because everybody's on a path, but everybody's in different places along the path. That kind of drives some of the questions we get asked too,

which is what happens in John. it's interesting. Everybody, I tell everybody, it has to start with a focus on who Christ is, why he came here, what he did for you, and then how that impacts you going forward. Yesterday, Jay, so I sat down with a, it was really interesting because it was a, and I hadn't seen her since she was probably a teenager. She's in her 20s now. Got two little kids. And it's, it was Ashley, Jill's daughter. And so Jill is, she, she's a listener or a podcast. And we've talked about it before. She, one of our Jason's early folks that he led to Jesus.

And Jill, you know, had some rocky moments along the way, but she's locked in on Jesus. And so here was now her daughter looking for that, you know, they're stationed overseas, their husbands in the military. And, you know, she was like, I feel like I'm on a path, but I just don't know. I'm not sure anymore. You know, one time when she was young because she grew up with us and she had a surety about it. But now a lot of life has happened, a lot of mistakes. and now she's got two children.

I said, well, what's driving you to want to know more about Jesus? And she said, well, I got two kids. And she said, if I don't get it right, then they ain't going to get it right, which was great. I mean, that's great thinking. I believe that's why God set this whole thing up, where you actually have kids and have the ability to procreate. Because it's like you can be the worst person in the world and then become a, mother or father, and then we have a spark of hope. That's right.

Because there's one thing that kind of stops you in your tracks there, and all of a sudden you said, well, you know, maybe I should do a little better. Because they're thinking of their kids. Well, she told me she was like, so we sat there for an hour and we talked, and I just basically shared Jesus with her, shared the gospel, what he did for her, just gave her that reminder, some passages, you know, and send some with her. because we usually write them down. And at the end of it, she said, well, Mr. Allen, I really, you know, she was about to hop on a plane and three hours ago to Germany, you know, with her kids, with her husband. And she said, I kind of want to be baptized too.

I said, well, let's talk about that. Why is that? And then she told me, and it was really interesting because from our discussion about what she had learned about Jesus, she said, I want to know and I want to be, I want to leave here feeling like I'm on a path. I said, well, look, what happens is after today, so we baptize. But what happens is after today? I said, Jesus is your North Star now.

You always got away. The path is always, as long as you focus on him, stuff that happens in this life, I mean, yeah, there's going to be bad times. Your kids are going to go struggle. You and your husband are going to struggle. You're in the military. That alone is a struggle, you know, for most marriages. But she left there on a pathway, you know, a clarity, which is awesome. I mean, that's what really this is all about.

Well, I don't want to pour any cold water on your, on your musings. But, uh, so don't. Just, yeah. Put some warm water in there. Just remember the verses that just come to my mind when you guys are talking that. Without faith, it's impossible to please God. Because anyone who comes to him and what we're discussing must believe he exists,

which is a weird thing to say. And he does reward those who earnestly seek him. Right. I mean, the reward, don't be ashamed to testify about our Lord, ashamed to me, his prisoner. He's locked up over this thing. His life has been turned upside down. But he's just taking it all in saying, our shame to me is prisoner, join with me and suffering for the gospel by the power of God. He's saved us.

He's called us to a holy life, not because of anything we've done, but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, but it has now been revealed in what we've been talking about in John chapter 8, the revealing Jesus appears. Who is he? What's he fixing to do? It's been revealed through the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus,

that was 20 years ago, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. He said, I was appointed a herald and an apostle and a teacher of that. That's why I stick with it. But if you read that, you say, you know, this is big. Exactly. For anyone. If you introduce the word, I mean, I'm not saying you're doing for it.

I'm not saying that not to bring the reward down. But that's quite the reward life and immorality. mortality is brought to light through the gospel. I'm just saying immortality, Al, is the age-old question. Men of faith like ourselves, we're looking at saying, we have this great hope. Someone without a knowledge of Jesus Christ, their hope would be maybe he won't be there when I finally die. But we look at it, we say he's destroyed.

I don't even think they're thinking that. It's like when you read that verse, you know, it's a famous verse, but to people have never heard it, when you say anyone, faith being, no, no, what was that when you read that, that he must believe that he exists without faith? Yeah, Hebrews 11-6. Without faith that's impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that exists. But a lot of people read that they think, oh, so I got to believe.

they're focusing on the word must and they're missing the point. If you don't believe he exists, obviously nothing's going from that point on. He wasn't saying like what we're talking about. Here are the requirements. Number one, believe it exists. Yeah. Okay. No, it's a little deeper than that.

Which is why, because to believe. You're saved by grace through faith. Get over it. Yeah. They just, they're not, they're looking at it like a college course where they're answering the right question. Well, I use marriage as an illustration for that a lot of times because it's like you don't say, you don't walk up in this person, I'm attracted to them. They're funny. I kind of like them.

And then, you know, you don't, the discussion is not, well, what do I need to do to marry this person? You know what I'm saying? It's way deeper. I mean, like, it's a relationship growth. It's, you know, to get to a point where you say the I do's, it's much deeper than just give me the requirements. So what do I need, if I marry this guy, what do I got to do to be a good husband? But also, you're never going to, it's never going to line up. That's why a lot of people go around and talk about all the evidences where God exists,

which, look, I love talking about those things. I think it's massive. You're never going to prove it because we just read that without faith, it's impossible. And faith is not seen yet believing. You're going down a road. I've never seen him. I've never seen him. And people say, well, that's all I got to do.

Which is not true, because here we're reading, if you believe what we're reading in the four Gospels, he was showing them. This is who I am. But the mind is a powerful thing. You're like, maybe this is a trick. I mean, because you just don't know what you don't know. Right. And all we know is we just showed up here, looked at a.

around and started trying to figure it out, which I think was God's plan all along. Right. I think the number one reason, what happens is like it's just what happened to, you know, Missy's grandma. I told the story on a previous podcast. She gets the coronavirus. She goes to the hospital. They're like, I guess it's a miracle.

She's healed. I mean, she was there one day. Send her home. We're all jumping up and down. How old was she? She's 92. 92. So for a few days she had already beaten the odds.

Well, yeah, a few days she feels fine. And then all of a sudden, she starts feeling bad again. A couple days later, she dies. And so, you know, in my mind, I'm like, what's all this about? I mean, what she, you try to make sense of that. And you kind of have to step back because Mrs. upset, you know, to her grandma. Not that we don't, I'm 100% sure.

sure we'll see her again and she's in heaven. But you just go through the process of all the memories. And, you know, she, her and her husband, he went on to be with the Lord a few years ago, four or five years ago. I mean, they lived with us for a while in our little guest house. So we're really close to them. But you kind of have that conversation of, well, what were we thinking? She's 92.

And we had this moment, which I think it was a God thing. You wanted to live on. Well, yeah, but I think, I mean, look, if you have your druthers, do you want to stay in a hospital and die, or do you want to feel better, go home and then? And die with her family there, with her family and her daughter there. And I'm like, yeah, it makes sense to me. Because she's 92.

The text I quoted, at his appearing, has destroyed death. Well, if you believe that, you have a different view, and I would think the pain wouldn't be as great if you believed that he had destroyed death. You just step over on the other side. I get a little solace in that. Oh, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Exactly.

Well, I think the world tries to say, though, they look at that situation. And they're like, well, why? If there's a God, why did that happen? You know, I mean, in every situation, they're always looking at the negative in that, well, yeah, she's supposed to be a daughter of God. Why didn't he heal her? Like, she's 92. This is not what we're about. the journey will continue.

But they're like, yeah, but why did this, this is terrible. So I think that is the conundrum, because I think the number one excuse for people not following Jesus is, you know, why the bad things happen. Oh, you get it all the time. Let's take a break. Well, Jason, what I always says, the resurrection changes everything. If you believe that, if you believe it happened, and if you believe it happened, and if you believe, it's going to happen to us, which is what the Bible tells us, and Jesus told us, that's the game changer. I mean, like, then, if death can't beat you. I was more cut to the heart when I was 28

when old Bill Smith preached the gospel to me. By the way, some of our listeners, there's a Bill Smith that's an evangelist out there because I'm getting a lot of letters. That's not the Bill Smith. Ours is we have made Smith, and he's not around anymore. Some of you have misunderstood that. sure there's thousands of people named Bill Smith. Well, one of them is a preacher, and some people are studying him, and they're sending me his stuff, and I'm like, I don't know. You go to any hotel registry around here, and there'll be a few Bill Smith. There's John Doe and Bill Smith. John Smith. This particular Bill Smith, the first phase of the gospel, God becoming flesh, and I was like, whoa, but I was not, I was not convicted yet. I'm just listening.

And the second phase, when he died on a cross for my sins, I said, man, I got a lot of them. I said, so that's pretty good news, which gospel good. But when he got to that next one, and then three days later, he was raised from the dead, I'm like, whoa, now, wait a minute, do what? and my exact words were, how did I ever miss that? Until I was 28 years old. I don't know whether I was hearing it and really not listening. You know, one of these days where you heard it, but it's, you know,

the forces of evil. Ever seeing, but not seeing, ever hearing, but not hearing. But when I zeroed in on Jesus was raised from the dead, therefore you can be. I might have to tell you, boy, something. That's the one that got me. I said, wait a minute, I'm on the wrong side of this thing. I didn't know we were talking about being raised from the dead. I said, whoa.

So I was trying to digest that, but I said, I actually said, I'll tell you what, this sounds too good to be true. That was my exact words. This sounds too good to be true. I mean, surely this is, of course, I'm jotting them down. I said, I'm going to jot down what you're saying to me, dude. And I said, I'm going to go back myself to verify what you were speaking about. Where did you find that? And he'd give me the verse.

And I'd write it down. He'd give me the verse. I mean, I took notes. Yeah. Well, we part. He said, what do you think? I'll be back in touch with you. I said, I got to verify to see if this is because this sounds too good to be true.

his reply was it probably is too good for all of us but it is true yeah i'm like well i'm fixed to find out let me research and i said to him three days later after i did the research on who jesus is and what he did what he's now doing at the right end of the father what he will do reappear well three days later i said here's the deal i want you to come down here and pick me up And he said, I want you to drive me to a pool of water. I don't care where it is. Pond, Creek, pothole. I said, get me to some water based on what I've read here.

And I said, don't wreck the vehicle on the way over there. Drive slow. You were ready. And he busted out laughing. But he did come get me. We went down there and he baptized me. And now it's 45 years later, Al. That's right.

Well, you know, Paul said something interesting about that, Dad, just what you were talking about. in 1st, Corinthians 15, which, by the way, man, if you ever want to do a, you know, good read on the resurrection, that's your chapter. In verse 17, he said something interesting. He said, if Christ has not been raised, in other words, if it didn't really happen, he's telling the group thing. And some of the Corinthians were saying it didn't happen. That's right. It's right. He's chewing them out nicely. That's right. Your faith is futile, and you are still in your sins. That's how crucial the resurrection is to every part of it. I mean, it really does. To me, it's like the lynchpin.

of Christianity. I mean, that's kind of that central thought. And Paul basically said that. And so he said, if only for this life, we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men. So even if you believed he was the son of God, so what's he's telling that audience then, even if you believe that, but you didn't believe the resurrection, you would miss it because this life's going to end for everybody. If this was all we had. I was really devastated when I read Thomas Jefferson's writings in depth when he got to the resurrection. He was all in. Jesus, his interaction. This must bother you because you keep bringing this up. I tell you. It hurt, man. It hurt when we got to the, Jesus died on a cross and that he stopped. It seems so shallow to think if this is all we got,

this life. Well, that's an interesting point though, Jay's because a lot of people who are super successful. Obviously, Thomas Jefferson was and super smart. Oh, super smart. Super brilliant. But sometimes they have that problem stepping across that final threshold. You think about, I was thinking about Luke 16 when Jesus did that parable about the rich man and Lazarus. And, you know, he made the point in there that, you know, the Lazarus spent his whole life in a terrible situation. The rich man had everything. But at some point when you, when you cross over into the Great Beyond, that doesn't matter anymore. But I think a lot of people that have, intellect and have success and have money and property and all these things.

Sometimes those are the hardest people to really believe. Thomas Jefferson, some guy said, I don't forget who sent me the Bible, but it was the Thomas Jefferson Bible. And him, he, he, uh, Punta. Without the resurrection? Yeah, he's out sure. So I'm reading it from first page and I go and I'm getting toward the end and I said, come on now. Come on. Come on. Come on out with it.

And he said, they killed him by nating them to. Bill Cross. And I looked at the next page, and I was out of the play. It's like watching a movie where the star dies. Oh. Yeah. You know what I mean? Right.

With every movie I've seen that happen. I sat there and said, come on, Thomas. Come on. It was just a blank on the next page. I turned it. I said, oh, my goodness. I knew there was something way back in my mind. I said, but he just didn't see him all in, and I couldn't figure it out.

So when I got to the gospel, And I learned from what he had said up to then. His lifestyle, the perfect life, the way to treat people. He said, we found the country on this individual. He was such a great model when it comes to behavior. And he zeroed in that and couldn't get around it. But when he got to the miraculous part, anything supernatural. Well, it's like I had a great man.

I used to have a raging debate. He had everything but faith in the gospel. I used to have a raging debate with one of our Hollywood producers, who was an atheist. And we were friends because I said, look, without the resurrection, Hollywood would be nothing. And he was like, what? I said, all your crappy movies, the guy won't die. And even when he does, guess what? He comes back.

I was like, now you're just saying, well, he wasn't dead. but you're tapping into that reservoir. People like that concept. Oh, it's over? Oh, no, it's not. Even the bad guys, you know, the razor blade hands, they keep coming back. All the superheroes.

I mean, they literally, they get run over by a bus. But it didn't kill him. Because he has this, he ate some whatever they eat. They're driving vehicles off of cliffs and, you know, cable catch them and they barely made it. The plane crashes, you know, like right when it's crashing, he just steps out. You know, in theory, that seems good, but that really wouldn't work. You know what I mean?

It's like right before he crack, just step out. They can easily resurrect them and people, yay. Especially when the franchise is making money. The resurrection is linked to the money. We thought Eastwood was a little slow on that last draw when they filled him full of holes. No, no. Bullets were hitting all around him, but none hit the... Well, somebody told me that about the outlawed jail. You see, which, by the way, I was at the grocery store last night and wore a mask for the first time.

Now the thing, the governor made a edict. And look, I want to say, I'm a team player. I mean, once we decide, okay, that's the law, and there was a deputy in front of the grocery store, and if you didn't have a mask on, they said, go away. I saw three girls get turned away. And I thought, and now you're thinking if I'm going to buy a grocery. Well, I thought, well, why don't, though, the store supply mask? They should.

I mean, that would make it better. We're trying to give you our money. Right. The governor said, you got to wear a mask. Okay, I'm here. I'll go along. I'll play along. But now I go to the store, I don't have a mask, so I can't buy any groceries.

You don't want my money? Mask making has turned into a, a. Oh, it's quite the cottage industry. Well, look, this mask I put on when I got to the, the truck. When I went to take it off, it just snapped. You know, you're talking a piece of junk. But anyway, the tag on it was probably $9.99, but it wasn't 30 cents worth of material in it.

Oh, less than that. I like five pennies. Hang on. Let's take a break. So the story I was going to tell is the only person in there without a mask was this little kid. I knew he knew how it was because every time I would, like, cross an aisle, he'd be looking, you know. Had the look, didn't it?

We called it the looking looky league. I would say he looked seven or eight. So what he said was shocking to me because when we got in line, he came up there and he said, Mr. Chase, I said, yeah. He said, I've seen the outlaw Josie Wells. Well, after you. I was a seven-year-old kid listening to the podcast. I told you kids are listening to a podcast.

But I was saying that to say, because somebody rode in, they said, well, I didn't like the outlaw Josie Wells because he died at the end. I was like, died at the end. Yeah. He didn't die. But my father-in-law, who was an awesome man, Hoot Gibson, he said the same, when we were talking about movies one day and he said, well, I tell you, we were talking about West, he loves West.

And he said, I tell you one I don't like. And I was like, what is it? And he said, the outlaw, Josie Wells. And I was like, for, I was kind of like, James. I would have just got up right then. I was like, I was so shocked because it was my favorite. That's different. This is my father-in-law.

And I was like, I was like. Why didn't he like the Outlaw Josie Wales? He said, because he died at the end. He said the exact same thing. They took the blood dripping on the boot as he was gutshot. It's what his mind said. I said, well, he didn't die. It's Hollywood.

That's what I said. He came back and did another movie a couple years later. That's what I said. And there was a sequel book written, too. You know, he did not. You could tell her down and hit a big vein. Yeah. It was just a dripage.

Oh, yeah. Well, back. That's like the other movie, hard to kill. He left there riding the horse. He's all right. He's all right. He got over. He's going to live with the Indians.

He went over at the table. What about all this? Words of Life. What did you all be like? Yeah, what was that old chief's name? Blue. No, 10, 10 bears. Yeah, 10 bears.

Remember that 10 bears, they had them a little medicinal in. Comanches, they could come up with good medicine. Well, plus he had low body. They were friends, you know, now. My point is, they'll find a way to make you live on there. Oh, yeah. Even though, they'll say, well, I don't believe in God or life after death. Whatever movie that.

that's any good, they won't die. I'm a man of a C-plus acumen, but you say if there's a chance with a historical figure that I know was here, too much written about him, if there's a chance to escape death through this individual, just one individual has ever would ever convince me of this, Just one. Right. Someone, perfect man, perfect God, sacrifice, the prophets, all this lead work to get him here. He shows up what he said, what he did, the things.

I said, well, if there's ever going to be a chance to live beyond the grave, he's your man. Right. I mean, I'm just absolutely, I challenge anyone, atheists, whatever. Just look at the story about Jesus and say, So you're saying there's a chance. You're like, I'm saying there's a chance. Well, you think about what we've been studying in John 858, which I said, I'm all in, I got to know.

I put forth that this is the greatest one line in the history of the world. It better be a doozy, Jake. It's got to be a good one. Before Abraham was born, I am. That's a line. That's a duzy. A spanner of all the time. If you heard that in any circumstance and just put in your whatever person,

if you heard someone say that and they said that about a historical person, what would you think? I would think, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Now, wait a minute, but for Abraham, he said, I was there with Abraham. And they're like, I mean, they said, look, you're not 45, you're not 40 years old. And you're saying you were there when Abraham was there? My first impression would be 1-800 psycho. Yeah, that's right.

That's what I would think. I've often said that this was a bunch of about 40 lunatics that came up and concocted his story. Or they were owned to something, one or the other. All the way back to Genesis, the water, the ball of water and separating the collage at sky and in the dry. You just start reading all this. You said, wait a minute. here. Who wrote this? I said, well, they claim Moses wrote it. And I'm like,

what is it, world traveler? It's been all over the world to know about the seas. I said, hi, in the world? Well, he had known this. I said, he's either a complete idiot. And then you read it, you say, well, why does it make sense? Well, but that's the thing, though, this whole thing provides such a better pathway, even to live. I mean, think about statements like Jay's just read. I mean, that elevates you. I was thinking about, you know, Phyllis,

our sister wrote an amazing blog, which you read it, didn't you, Dan? Yeah, Ms. Kay gave it to me. Fantastic. And by the way, it's on our website, Al and Lisa Robertson.com, if you want to go read it. I said that, thought to myself, when I read that, I said, that good. That's a smart girl. She's very smart. I was glad to be thinking, boy, I'm glad I had a look.

And she just, she basically just told, you know, a piece of the story we've told our audience in this blog. But what it was so beautiful about it is how she realized that God had had his handowner as she followed him and served him, even though she was in bad circumstances and situation growing up. They said she walked to the church building. She's 10 years old. She opened a checking account and she was 12 years old. I mean, that's how independent and on our own she was.

But she always sought Jesus through the whole process. And he protected her. There's no doubt in my mind to get us to where now we have this relationship with it. But the point I was going to make was that overwhelmingly people have responded because hundreds of thousands of people have seen it now on our website. and most of it is positive. Some are people that say my situation, I wish mine had turned out that way, hard times.

But there was one that was on Facebook that just Phyllis sent it to me. And she said, would you, here was Phyllis's response, which again, I love. She said, would you and Lisa pray with me for this woman? Because she's in a lot of pain. And then it was just this woman, her life had terrible. She had a similar situation. But instead of finding some peace and good things, she found terrible things. and then she had other things.

But it was like in my mind, it was like she was so bitter and life had been so bad. And so we did pray for it because I thought if she could just find Jesus, he could lead her out of this terrible, awful. I mean, you think about the crappier your life is, the more you need him to guide you through the process. So it just reminded me that, you know, people are hurting out there and so bitter because the evil one, they've got all these twisted situations. But look, the gospel is the only thing that gives you some peace and hope out of that. Peace of mind in the year 2020, peace of mind, Al, among the human race.

It's a rare commodity. I would argue 2020 as much as any year in my lifetime. But you find these, you know, a lot of people, when you say when you find Jesus, which people who don't know Jesus, they're like, well, how exactly does that work? But, you know, somebody, I don't know who decided to make everything Jesus said in red letters, but that was a, I think that was a good idea. Great idea. But it's like the story that we're fixed to dive into in John 9, because you see Jesus run up on a situation where we've all been, which is a bad thing has happened, and we think, why is this happening? Right. And if you just look at everything Jesus did, everywhere he went, how he did it,

you literally start having light bulb moments about your life. That's right. Plus, how could you be right all the time? I mean, how is it? You know what I'm saying? I mean, what you just said was one of the things he said in John 8, 46, which we didn't talk about. but he said, can any of you prove me guilty of sin? Well, that's something I could never say.

Me? Oh, are you kidding? I mean, I could be lying. Hang on. Which is they saying? Hang on, let's take a break. And I got a quote here for you on that point. So, Dad, you'll appreciate this.

The great theologian, Don Lemon on CNN, here's what he said last week, which is interesting. You just read that verse. Jesus Christ, if that's who you believe in, Jesus Christ admittedly was not perfect when he was on Earth. Who said that? Don Lemon of CNN. Who that is? Well, I know you wouldn't know.

Dad knows who he is because he DVR's CNN and watches it every day. I had it. He interviewed me one time. I remember that. Was it hostile? Never got next to. You know, the old Don Lemon wasn't near like the new Don Lemon. He was a pretty decent fellow.

But anyway, the point was he was saying, why are we deifying the founders of the country? But what I'm saying is in his mind, why are we deifying the founders? Deifying? Yeah, making them more than they should be. People who follow Jesus, you know, George Washington, John Adams, Thomas, Jefferson, James, Madison, on and ago. You say, you know, we can't deify them because they were followers of Jesus. So that was his point.

They were clear on who they followed, Jesus, all of them. But my point is, it was interesting. He was making his case, but he did. didn't know at all what he was talking about because he said Jesus admittedly was not perfect. Like in other words, right. And he just, that's the thing that stood out. I didn't get anything else you said but that. I'm like, admittedly, was it perfect? No, he was perfect. And he admitted it. And he said, who can accuse me of sin? Because if he wasn't perfect, this wouldn't work. None of it would work. Because if I asked that question, they could come up with a lot of proof that I was a

center, but not him. Well, it's not just that he wouldn't be a perfect sacrifice. How could you invent a perfect person, by the way? How could an imperfect person invent a perfect person? How could a fallible person invent an infallible person? Wouldn't worry. But, you know, a perfect person could create a perfect person, which is, I believe a baby is perfect.

I know there's theologies out there that, you know, Right. But, which is really another thing that we're going to get into in John 9. Right. Because it's like, well, whose fault was this, that he was born blind? He was trying to attach blame from the get-go. Right. Well, let's go ahead and read these first few verses, and we'll dive on into it and see how far we go.

In John 9, verse 1, as he went along, Jesus, he saw a man blind. from birth. So this guy's blind has never been able to see. His disciples asked him, is really interesting. Rabbi, who sinned this man or his parents that he was born blind? Who messed up? Yeah, who messed up? Which really is why I said in on our earth, these were his disciples. Right. But the world, there's like, why do bad things happen? Why would this man be born blind? If there's a God, this should never. happened. Which is interesting, number one, is that how could it have been the man's fault if he was born blind? The question was the little dumb. He shouldn't even throw him the guy in there. He was

born blind. How would it be his sin? Unless it was back to this idea of original sin, which I talked about earlier. What he's really saying is what did the parents, how did they mess up? Where'd they go wrong? And he could have answered the question here. Because it would have been, I mean, when I first read this, I was on the edge of my seat. Because I wanted to know the answer. But let me give you a little back. background though. So, so this idea, and by the way, it's still here today. People still believe this. I hear it all the time. They just use different words. There's a theory of, it's called retribution that you mess up and there's a price to pay. Now, we talk about there are consequences to behavior, but it's a whole theology that there's always karma is what they call it. Now, in other words, every bad act, you're going to have a some, something's going to happen. And in the Old Testament, there were curses that were handed down. 10 generations or whatever, and it happened. Right.

So they're looking at that history saying. But my theory about that has always been, you have generational sin and curses still today. Because what happened, you see, we know families that they're four or five generations into no education, drugging, terrible home life, terrible situation. Their kids grow up and then they all fighting with one or just multiplies. It multiplies. So that's, but it's not like you say, oh, God did that. No, their behavior is what they can't come out of, because some will come out of it. But you read the whole book of Job.

All of Job's pals, the three that showed up, they believed in this to the core because they kept saying, what'd you do? What'd you do? I mean, you could sum up all those things. Where'd you go wrong? You did something. I mean, all this bad stuff wasn't happening. Joe was like, I don't know.

Well, it ain't no different in my childhood. Exactly right. Every time something, what'd you do that for? What were you doing now, man? I keep going back to that boat pile. Why would you want to break the? boat paddle. I said it was made. It was made in China. China. That's how it broke. You're like, but did you swing it? I was like, yeah, but it was made, if you don't want me to

break a boat paddle, buy better built boat paddle. Because if a snake. My thought at the time was you don't take a boat paddle to kill various animals. I said, because you may break the boat paddle. boat paddles are for paddling. They're not for beating tombs or possums to death. If you step out of the boat. Are getting cotton mouths. If you step out of the boat and there's cotton mouth there and he opens your mouth. I'm going to tell you what you're going to do.

You're going to grab whatever is nearby. And once you kill the snake and break the boat paddle that was made in China. You have spoken wisely, my son, because this morning about daylight, Dan is behind. me in a wheeler and I'm going one way and he's going right behind me and I look over I stop the wheeler for something and I looked down and there was a cotton mouth just a little past arms length called up with his mouth open and Dan said that was one of the most excellent display of shooting that I've ever seen he said because in a flash he said without you didn't put your head down you just pointed it of course

He was just right there. So I just pointed it at him. And now he has, now he asks, this is what you do with snakes, not bow paddles. You take a weapon. But if you have one. Well, we didn't have it. All is his defense, he didn't have one. You eliminate the threat.

So the snake, when I shot, pow, the snake just come up in the air about four feet. He's blown half in two. And he comes down over there. And I'm like, whew, cut that little thin. All right, let's take one last break. So dad's like, they ain't but one way to handle it. Well, see, to my point, that's what I'm saying. In that case, the retribution was immediately bestowed on Jace for this act of whatever.

True. But I think they asked the question based on what the statement, the greatest line in the history of the world. You got to think about that. He said, before Abraham was born, I am. And they, you know, picked up some stones, you know, but Jesus hit himself. Well, then it says, as he said, as he was born. he went along. So it's right.

Yeah. They're like, well, all of a sudden, they're like, hey, I am, because they've probably been thinking, because that would have never left me. So they're like, hey, Mr. I am, what about this situation? Because now their minds are starting to turn, which is my point about when you are introduced to Jesus and you start looking into him and you start focusing on Jesus, all of a sudden, it's. starts to open up a lot of things about life that you never considered possible to even think

about. That's true. And I think it was a legitimate question. I mean, most people I hear preach on this, they're kind of throwing them onto the bus, but I'm like, it's a pretty good question. Well, because, again, it's a thousands-year-old mindset that this has got to be the way it is. So what Jesus is about to tell them is this is new territory. I mean, nobody said this before he says it.

So here's his answer, straightforward. Verse three. Neither this man nor his parents sinned. Now, we'll stop right there. He's not saying they've never sin. He's saying cause and effect. But I like it too in that why I brought up the idea about creating a perfect being. Because I got out of that between the lines.

This wasn't anything sinful or as a result. There wasn't a fault. That's what he meant. it, you know. So he says, but this happened so that, and here's the new theology, but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life. God saw it coming. Because he's I am.

I mean, back to Jason's point. So he knows everything. So he knew this guy was blind. And so from the human perspective is like, well, wait a minute, that ain't fair. I don't want to be blind. I mean, just so God's work can be displayed. Again, we're looking at it. When we turn it over to our prism, it's always about fairness.

It's always about, you know, this isn't right. You know, why does he, why is she sick? And over here, this one survived. Why did my aunt die of this and this one was healed? You know, so I'm saying? That's where people go. But he is also then, he then also goes to what real blindness is because he then goes into an interesting thing, which is the theme of the book of John, one of the things, which is light.

He says, as long as it is day. We must do the work of him who sent me. Night is coming when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world. So he went into this seeing and not seeing, which there are hundreds of references on people being able to see but can't see, which is his point. Because, you know, you're like, why in the previous chapter, remember we talked a whole podcast about when he said, in me there is no darkness. He keeps going back to this on what true seeing is all about.

Which we were going to talk about in the next pocket. You could put Phyllis right in there. This happens so that the work of God, my name is played. You say, here's this girl, didn't know who I was, here I am, I don't know who she is. Correct. 45 years? Correct. I had, she mentioned it.

I had no idea. Well, all of a sudden, you said, well, why did that story turn out like a deal? So they've got to be displayed in her life and mine. I think you're exactly right. I think this statement. I think this statement is for everyone. That's right. Oh, yeah.

It doesn't. Some people have it from birth in this case. There was a physical condition. My daughter. She was born with a physical challenge that has been going on for 16 years. How many operations so far? Too many to count. Yeah, a lot.

Several. Major operation. Yeah. So someone would come to you and say, Jace, where'd you go wrong? Who's fault? And look, that's what these, some of these, what makes me mad, is there once in a while you see some kind of lawsuit deal. It's like, was your kid born with a cleft palate, you know,

let's sue somebody because of prenatal vitamins or what, you know, because they're trying to find where it all went wrong. Now, look, I'm sure there are a few things out there. in life where we can have a cause and effect. But most of, we don't know. They don't know why kids are born like that. One out of 800 kids are born with some form of that condition. Right.

You just think, that's a lot of people. It is. So you don't know. And you have to go through a process because this, I really read the hung out in this chapter a lot in the first couple months. You know what's amazing days? I never looked at your. your daughter as if she had any of that.

I just look at his little grandchild. Well, I think when you understand who God is, that's what happens. And Jason and Missy have handled it beautifully through the whole process because it's been a hard process. I mean, there were times when some of the things they had to do and some of what she had to go through was excruciating. I mean, difficult. Horrible.

I mean, just you just compartmentalized. There's a lot of people going through stuff like that. and because like when we help other kids we have these roundtable discussions you know and everybody's emotional which is fine because it's like me i never was an emotional person till i till we had my daughter but it just couldn't help it it was very emotional because you're seeing your daughter just suffer in ways that are just excruciating i mean it's just it's a you can't help but be emotional Plus, you have to say, in all of it, too, besides God, you say the medical people, they're pretty good. Oh, they're fantastic.

What they do. I mean, just think about it because this girl, I mean, she has made milestone after milestone. Well, I think in either one of these cases, and we'll wrap it up, is whether you're talking about someone born with a malady, I mean, God has been, he's gotten a lot of glory out of her whole life and everything we've been able to do. You and Missy are able to, and Mia start a foundation, help other kids. A lot of great things have happened. In Phyllis's case, I mean, there was a sinful act by two people that brought about a life. But she's not tainted by the sin. She was a beautiful life.

And that's what we've seen now. Now we get a chance, 45 years later, to be introduced to that life. So that's how God, that's to make the point practically that we'll get into when we come back is that that's what God does. Yeah, one of the cheesy lines that I do like with one amendment is that God takes messes and turns them into a message of Jesus, which is the amendment, because it's really not our message. Correct. But I do think at some point in your life, you could say this. This happened so that the work of God may be displayed in my life. Everyone has that moment.

Yep, I have. We all have. So we're so glad you guys were with us today. You can subscribe on iTunes or Spotify. or YouTube or Facebook, and be sure and rate us on iTunes so that other people can know about the podcast.