Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1222 | Jase Challenges Science on the Afterlife & Did Jesus Really Go to Hell?

Episode Date: December 4, 2025

Jase puts science and Scripture side by side to explore what really happens when we die, from decay and consciousness to the promise of resurrection. The guys tackle the big question head-on: did Jesus actually go to hell between the cross and the empty tomb, and what does that mean for believers like Phil who are with the Lord but still awaiting resurrection? Plus, Kim Bright sheds light on the devastating effects of microplastics on human health and offers a solution that’s surprisingly simple. In this episode: Hebrews 1, verses 1–3; Hebrews 2, verses 14–15; John 2, verses 18–22; John 5, verses 16–29; Matthew 6, verses 9–10; Romans 6, verses 1–4; Ephesians 2, verses 1–7; Romans 8, verses 1–4 and 18–23; 2 Thessalonians 1, verse 9; Luke 16, verses 19–31; Luke 23, verse 43; 2 Corinthians 5, verses 1–8; Philippians 1, verses 21–24; 1 Peter 3, verses 18–20; 1 Samuel 28; Hebrews 12, verses 1–2 and 22–24; Hebrews 13; 1 Thessalonians 4, verses 13–18 Chapters: 00:00-15:01 Jase studies physics & thermodynamics 15:02-24:53 The Holy of Holies is emptied 24:54-37:21 What happens to souls in Hell 37:22-44:30 Did Jesus go to Hell? 44:31-56:12 The solution to the microplastics problem — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashame. From your perspective, there's been, I don't know how many days in between podcasts. From ours, it's been five minutes. Five minutes. So we're just going to pick right out where he left off because we're in some really good stuff here. If you didn't listen to the podcast where we kind of introduced the law of thermodynamics, and I didn't even bring up quantum physics, but I don't know.

Well, Jay's is getting diving in some deep stuff. Zach, he's in your world today. Look, I spent an hour looking up the definition of quantum physics, and it seemed like a lot of people trying to figure out what God created. So I'm in the quantum physician camp who set all this into motion. And my point was about reading about the of the, law of thermodynamics, it's like to them, you can't create matter or destroy it. Right.

And even in death, it's like, well, there's the energy. It just goes into the surroundings as heat and your body decomposes. But it doesn't really leave. It just changed. Well, it kind of, and by the way, so we're in John 19, the last few verses where Jesus is taken off the cross and put into a tomb. So that's where we're at in terms of our narrative. Yeah.

But we're talking about this in a much bigger picture. And one of the things, when you read the AI in the last podcast, that I was thinking when you were reading it, is that it misses a component. I mean, like, yes, those things are true from the God perspective, but it misses this whole component of human existence. That, you know, where is the moral clause,

the love of music, the talents and abilities, You know what I'm saying? If it's just about the mass and the energy, where's that other stuff that really makes being a person so valuable? There's a bigger component here than just that. So we read on the last podcast, Genesis 1, that humans are a combination of dust or dirt and divine breath. Right.

He breathed into him. And even other some obscure passages, remember at first people were living to eight, nine hundred years, and there's this obscure passage where he's like, my spirit will not contend with man forever. His days will be 70 years, basically, is what it says. So somehow, you're like, well, what does that mean? Well, he just made it where we couldn't live as long. But he's in control of that. In him we live and move and have our being, Acts 17 is, and even in Colossians 1, where it's like, in Jesus, things hold together.

I mean, he's holding things together. I wanted to mention one thing. When you said that, I forgot to mention the last podcast, when you said that about him breathing in that Genesis 2 picture, you see throughout the Old Testament different times where the Spirit of God would come upon somebody, a David or a different person or Samson, different people that were doing God's will and work.

But the only time you really see that same picture that we saw from Genesis 2, is when Jesus has resurrected, which we'll get to a little bit later, and he's there with his disciples and he's about to leave. Remember, he breathed his spirit into them? I mean, the only time you ever see that, like, physical picture of this happening, and this was done by a physical Jesus here on Earth. It's pretty amazing when you think about it.

Well, and that's why I wanted to set up for what we're going to talk about, because everybody wants to kind of talk about the controversial issues and what happens when we die, Are they looking down on us right now? Is there an in-between place? Or did Jesus go to hell? You know, there's a couple of passages that are discussed there. So we're just setting the foundation.

And one of them I think you've got to realize is, when you go back to Genesis 1-1, in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. That's where they started. And you're seeing in the garden the heavenly God's space Because heaven is used in two different ways in the Bible, either the sky, just up there where the stars, or where God is. And he created the earth. Well, in the beginning, God, heaven, was with earth, with humans.

He created the humans. He was there. It was, what is the word, Zach? Interlocked or interwoven. And so you see glimpses of that. all through the Bible, and you have death as an invader. It was not meant to be that way from the beginning, or it didn't start that way.

But then death is introduced because of what happened, the decision that was made not to trust God. And that gets into a whole other rabbit hole that won't get into, this choosing the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, which is why the evil one, the spirit of evil, was like, oh, when you eat of that, God knows that you'll be like him. But they already were like him. He was deceiving him.

They were made in the image of God. But he was like, oh, there's something more. You can determine for yourselves good and evil, which they should have just trusted God because they had the gift of eternal life, which was a tree that they could participate in. When they sin, they were removed from the tree. Death was introduced into this world. And so that's why when you... It was a tree, but it was a relational, unbridled relational connection with the source of life.

So it wasn't, it was a quality of... Better answer, Zach. Yeah, better answer for that, what it was. So I wanted just to mention a couple of verses. When the book of Hebrews, when he talks about in the past, he spoke in various ways, but now he has spoken to us by his son. this is chapter one in verse 2 and 3, whom he appointed air of all things. But verse 3 says, the sun is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being.

He became a man. Hebrews 2 talks about that. And it goes into detail about why he became a human, God as a human. He says that in verse 14, he says, since the children, have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death, which is where we're at in John 19, he might destroy him who holds the power of death, that is the devil. That's why we went back to Genesis 3 and saw where all this began. And we're not making this connection up.

Right. This is a narrative woven from Genesis to Revelation about heaven and earth coming together. So when you go back to where we're reading in John, just to remind you that in John chapter two, this was profound because he goes to the temple and clears it out in verse 12. We've gone through this, but it deserves to be brought back up as a foundational here because what was the temple, how was the temple at Jerusalem functioning in the Jewish world? it was the place where people met with God. We're back to this heaven and earth coming together. And there were all sorts of rules about that engagement. So when you get to chapter 2 and verse 18, the Jews demanded of him,

what miraculous sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all that? I mean, he had just cleared out of the temple. They're like, who do you think you are? Jesus answered them, pay careful attention to this, destroyed this temple, and I will raise it again in three days. So we're going back to the prediction

of where we are now in John 19. The Jews replied, it has taken 46 years to build this temple and you're going to raise it in three days, but the temple he had spoken of was his body, his human body. Let's think about that for one second.

just the illegitimacy of their thought process, even in that statement, it's taken us 46 years to build this temple. That's not true. Like, they're so focused. So if you go back and read this, they didn't build the temple. The temple was built by Cyrus. And they were under what was the Herodian expansion. But it is interesting to me that it seems like they're focused clearly on their own, what they actually built themselves. which is kind of goes back to the garden, that was the real lie,

that you can actually be God, that you can build this thing, that you're the builder, not him. So you see that even in their own argument with Jesus, didn't understand what you're saying anyways, but you see in their own thing, they're not even under their own system. And it also, Zat wasn't the first temple. I mean, Solomon had built the first temple,

but even before them. And before that, it was the tabernacle in the wilderness. Yeah. So then it says, after he was raised from the dead, verse 22 of chapter 2, his disciples recall what he had said. Then they believe the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken. So now look at John 5 because he had already introduced the same principle. But now we're making sense of it.

So in John 5 in verse 19, and you remember, this all happened because he gave a gain, glimpse of heaven on earth by healing a guy impossibly that no surgeon could have done. He just bam. But he did it on the Sabbath. And so the Jews are, what are you doing? And look, he goes through the same line of thought, verse 16. So because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, healing a guy, showing heaven on earth, which is what he prayed for in Matthew 6, that his king.

would come on earth as it is in heaven. Jesus said to them, my father is always at his work to do this to this very day. And I too am working. They're like, God's working on the Sabbath. This can't be true. And you're claiming to be a son. For this reason, the Jews tried all the harder to kill him,

which they eventually pulled it off where we're at John 19. Yeah. So because he was making himself equal with God, that's verse 18. So verse 19, watch where he goes with this. Jesus gave them this answer. And this is very dense conversation. But just think about it on where we're at now in John 19. I tell you the truth, the son can do nothing by himself.

He can only do what he sees his father doing because whatever the father does, the son also does. and here's a key verse for the father loves the son and shows him all he does which this makes more sense what i skipped over john 316 but god sent his son into the world to save it for god so love the world so then it says yes to your amazement he will show him even greater things for just as the father now now look where he goes with this raises the dead and gives them life, and even so the son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. Moreover, the father judges no one but has entrusted all judgment to the son. So that's all these verses where Jesus says, oh, God has given me people into my hands.

This is where it comes from. He's given him the authority that God has, the father, up until this time, to make call on that, to give life and death. So then it says that all may honor the son just as they honor the father. And I love this last sentence of 23, 5. He who does not honor the son does not honor the father who sent him. I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. So this is his authority in detail and will not be condemned.

He has crossed over from death to life. I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the son to have life in himself. So God has given over the authority to Jesus of life and death. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the son of man. Then he says it again, do not be amazed at this for a time is coming when all who hear, who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out.

Those who have done will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. By myself, I can do nothing. I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself, but to him and sent me. But in this narrative, you kind of have this word, what Zach deemed, I don't know where you got it from, this now, not yet, not yet heaven on earth, reality of resurrection. And before this blows your mind, later on in other passages, you clearly see this as happening now, in what Jesus was predicting.

Think when Ephesians 2 and Roman 6, if you read that and be fair with it, and I'll just give you an example. Let's take the Romans 6, where you can have what Jesus is bringing is a resurrection, a death and a resurrection as a present reality. And you say, what do you mean by that on the planet right now?

heaven and earth coming together as a present reality through Jesus. Look at Romans 6. He asked a question. Now, he's talking about sin and understanding God's grace. And there was a conclusion being reached that, well, if God has forgiven us of our sins, well, let's just go out there and build a bunch of sins. And if grace is bigger than sin, let's just put it to the test. So he asked that question, what shall we say?

then, shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means. Look, we've read this verse so many times that we miss the reality of it. Because what's this next phrase? We died to sin. How can we live in it any longer? What do you mean? He's talking to people who are alive.

How can you die and be alive? He says, we died to sin. Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ, Jesus were baptized him into his death. But watch, we were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead, we too may live a new life. It's a present reality. He does the same thing more graphically in Ephesians.

And this really blows your mind. Your head feels like it's going to explode. In Ephesians, too, he talks about the evil one. and then we were living in captivity. This is Ephesians 2-2. Well, let me just read it. 2-1. You were dead in your transgressions and sins

in which you used to live when you follow the ways of the world and the ruler of the kingdom of air. Remember in Hebrews 2 we just read that that's why Jesus came was to destroy his power. The spirit who is... Same one who was there in the garden. Same one is there in the garden.

The spirit who is now at work and those who are disobedient, all of us lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of the sinful nature, and following its desires. We were by nature, objects of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God who is rich in mercy, look at these next three words, made us alive? Well, when did we die?

What's he talking about? So now you're realizing that when Adam and Eve sin, that death showed itself in many ways, in relationships. All of a sudden, you know, Adam and Eve, they were sewing fig leaves together. They felt shame. It not only affected their relationship, but their relationship with God

and their connection to God, you know, spiritually, and ultimately physically, because once they left the garden, they die physically. Just think of all the things that happened. But now God made us alive with Christ, even when we were dead. in transgressions.

It is by grace you've been saved. Here's the key. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus. It's so funny to listen to pastors try to explain this as a future occurrence.

It's a present reality because your Savior is at the right hand of God and you're there with him. even though you're on earth representing him I think that's the when you go back to John 2 you see this in John 2

going back to this whole temple conversation because if you think about the temple this is a little history of the temple you have the original well you have the tabernacle first that Moses built and when Moses constructed the tabernacle or he didn't actually construct it under

his command the way it was set up once you go into like the holy of holy place, which is where the presence of God would be. Like this is where, if you ever want to be with God, if you ever want to be seated with God, and the question you have to ask yourself is,

where is God seated? And in the tabernacle, God was seated on top of a seat called the mercy seat. And it was behind the Holy of Holies and said they would make the sacrifice of the blood of goats and bulls. They would put it on the altar,

and then they would be able to go into the Holy of Holy once a year, high priest only. Then when they build the actual temple itself, which was a permanent structure of the tabernacle, the tabernacle is just mobile. Well, then Solomon builds the actual temple. But same basic premise. If you want to see where God's going to dwell,

he's going to be behind the Holy of Holies, behind the veil, behind the curtain. Where is he going to be seated? Because I want to be seated with him. Where's he going to be seated? He's going to be seated on the mercy seat. What's the mercy seat on top of? the Ark of the Covenant. So then what happened is, and this is like a big, big issue,

if you just really run the history of Israel out, a big, big issue that they had was that once the Babylonian invasion occurred, they destroyed the temple. And guess what else they took? And they never would be seen again, the Ark of the Covenant, which had the mercy seat on which God sat. So by the time you get to this Herodian expansion in John 2, that's the second temple that was built by Cyrus who was Persian, right? And so Cyrus builds that second temple, but there was no

arc of the covenant left. That was gone. Never to be seen again. There was no mercy seat. There was no place for God would sit. So you don't really see in Scripture the presence of God filling the temple like it did in Solomon's temple. You never see that again. So when you get to John 2, they should have been like, man, we got an issue anyways.

Because the problem is, we don't even have the arc of the covenant back there. That room is empty. You go behind that curtain, guess what's back there? Nothing. There's nothing back there. So when Jesus is saying, destroy this temple and rebuild it in three days talking about his body, and they're so focused on not only the second temple, they're focused on the expansion of the second temple behind the curtain to which there is nothing. There's no, there's no mercy seat. There's no place for God to sit. Jesus then becomes that. And so it's so key that without Jesus dying, then there is no place. There's no connection for us to have with God. And I think that's the

key point of it, why he says that at the beginning of John chapter 2. And to your point, when we're now in John 19 about the death of Christ, he is literally talking about the destruction of the temple that he's going to raise up his own body in three days. Exactly. So I want to read one more, and then we can get into all the controversial issues and hopefully give you an answer. So the next one I'll read is in Romans 8. And you see the same concept of now and not yet in Romans 8. And I encourage you to read the whole thing. But I'm just going to pick out the two paragraphs that address the issue at hand.

So verse 9 of Romans chapter 8, you, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature, but by the spirit. He's talking about there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, verse 1. So there's your phrase. where heaven and earth come together in your life is being in Jesus. And he provided that, just like Zach so eloquently explained, on a cross and through an empty tomb and given us His Spirit. So verse 9, if the Spirit of God lives in you. So you, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit.

If the Spirit of God lives in you, that's just, Just think about that. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he doesn't belong to Christ. Because immediately we want to say, well, what about that? We want to get into the heaven and hell kind of dynamic of that's what the Bible is about. Most churches do that. But it's just simply not true. The Bible is about heaven and earth coming back together.

Hell is a part of that because people who, what about people? people who say no to Jesus. Well, what happens? Well, they're separated from Christ. And if they live their whole life in that mode, well, it's the same concept as the now and not yet. You experience hell on earth and hell forever. And watch how this works. It says, but if Christ is in you, now watch this.

Your body is dead. People like, what does that mean? Oh, you're a zombie. you're dead you're like oh no i'm working out i'm eating right you're a healthy dead but your body is dead because of sin it's coming to all yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness but here's the key verse before you get all morbid and depressed about verse 10 if the spirit of him who raised jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his spirit who lives in you.

That's where AI missed it right there. They didn't know that was possible. That's where they missed it. He goes on to say not only, because if you have a new body, what do you need? Well, you've got to have a place to live. And most people say, oh, well, we're going to live in heaven together. I'm not sure why they think Paul wrote Romans 818, because then he starts talking about the creation waits.

This is verse 19, in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. Well, now we're talking about the not yet part, for the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from what? the same problem humans have. Bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

And I'll skip down to 23. Not only so, but we ourselves who have the first fruits of the Spirit, that's now grown inwardly. That's now as we wait for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. whether you're in a dust buster or whether you got hit by a nuclear warhead. Like you were right at the tip of that

and just were you were incinerated. We've already said, even science agrees with us on this. Oh, it can't be created or destroyed. It just takes on another form. Where do you think they got that from? Where did that come from? Right there in Romans,

I mean, you read what you just read. Think about what he just said there, liberated from its bondage to decay. Now, that is the second law of thermodynamics. If you read the second law of thermodynamics, it basically says that things are in a bondage to decay. I mean, it's almost verbatim what it says. It says that things have the entropy,

things decay over time. So this is a law of the universe that Paul is speaking of that somehow he knew, right, that the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. And we also know that it's not a good thing, that we need to be liberated from that. I was thinking about this, though, this week because I'm preaching on presence on Sunday at our church.

And I was really trying to think about this idea of presence. And I think I've come up with what I want to say. This doesn't apply to God because God is spirit and it doesn't apply to him. But if you think about what it means to be human, as we've already said many times in this podcast, humans have bodies with spirits. So humans are the connection of the physical and spiritual world. We're the intersection.

We're the temple. We're the vortex. We're where it happens is in the body of humans. And so what that means is when it comes to us, presence requires persons and it requires place. We're connected with each other. We're connected with God. And that happens in a place. We can't get away from that.

We don't exist. Bill Smith would say like this, that we can't exist eternally separated from the body. And we will be separated and we will exist in that state for a time period. But that is not who we are. So here's your options. Look, now I'm going to give you this off the top of my head. So you, because now we're going to get into maybe some of the more controversial things. But so I'm going to do this off the top of my head.

So I'm saying that as a caveat if I misspeak. But as far as I know, the death was referred to in Hebrew in the Old Testament as Shio, the grave. Yeah. In the New Testament, it's Hades. So you had that. Which is a Greek thought for the same idea. Same idea. Now, to my knowledge, hell's never mentioned in the Old Testament.

It's not in there. You're like, wait, what? No. So in the New Testament, it's mentioned, but it's the Greek word Gahena, which I don't know how to pronounce that in the Hebrew version, but you may know more about this. But that was a place. The valley of, what was it called? Valley of Hidden. Yeah.

And it was basically a fire pit slash trash dump. and that's kind of the word for hell. That's where curse things were taking dead bodies that were outside of, you know, consecration. It was a dump of dumping ground. So what's fascinating is, so there's your two options as far as the words for grave and hell, but then also you see it depicted as in the New Testament as either, If you're in Christ, and it's only mentioned three times, where you're, when you die, you go to be with Christ.

Three times. You have the thief on the cross. He says, today, you'll be with me in paradise. You have the 2ndthians 5 when he's kind of wrestling with, I'm a tent, but I'd rather be home with the Lord. And I think Philippians one is the other. He's like, I'm in, I'm stressed out. do I want to go home and be with the Lord, or do I want to remain here with you in this prison?

Stay in the body, yeah. Yeah, stay on the body. So you have that thought, which I think is comforting. Yeah. But everybody who dies goes, you know, to the grave. So your body decomposes it. And so your spirit goes to be with the Lord. And you're like, what about the spirits of people outside of the Lord?

So you have the chapter in Luke 16 where Jesus gives the analogy of which he uses grave there, not hell, but of the rich man and Lazarus. So you kind of see that going on. Now, is that a literal interpretation, or was he just giving you a picture of the afterlife, which kind of looks like it's using real people giving a picture? given a picture of the afterlife. And hell's only mentioned, if you take out the different gospel accounts where he brings up hell, which is this word for Gahanna, only four times in the New Testament. Now, the other times, it's imagery.

So you got Lake of Fire, which is in Revelation. And you have darkness, gnashing of teeth, all this imagery. these kinds of things. You have the Second Thessalonians 1, where it says you're shut out from the presence of the Lord, and it deems their everlasting destruction. So people say, well, does that mean I'm destroyed forever? I'm forever destroyed.

Well, both are bad. Yeah. So having said all that, where did Jesus go during this three-day period? He experienced death for us, which really it wasn't a three-day period. actually. Yeah, it's actually closer to just...

A few hours. So you only have two passages where I'm giving you all of the information about the two places you can go, if you want to call them places, giving you all the information about it's either hell or you're with the Lord, which is fascinating to me. Because I've already said from the other verses, we're in heaven now as believers. Now, I know that may cause you some uncomfortability.

You don't hear that, but you read it for yourself. And it seems to me that's a present reality. Now, I just picked out two verses Romans, Romans, 6, Ephesians 2. There are many others. He said you seated us in the heavenly realms. And you say, well, what about the second one? Because even in John 5, that second part, that was the, that is the not yet. part. So what happens there? How does that go down? I'm a new heaven and new earth. I believe God in

Revelation 21 and chapter 22 is coming down. When Jesus comes down in First Testament 4th, I believe we're meeting him in the air. Kind of a welcoming and the earth is made new, whatever that mean and heaven and earth will be together again. Dead and Christ will rise first. After that, we are still alive or left, caught up together with them, the resurrected in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, so we will be with the Lord forever. Yeah. So what I'm saying is the idea of us being separated from our body and having some existence in heaven in a spiritual non-body state where the earth is not involved, I just believe what's not biblical.

I believe it was made up. I mean, I just think it was made up. What part was made out? Say that again? Where you can somehow be apart from your body in eternity with Christ. Yeah, well, like that phrase. Not forever. Not forever.

But I would say that I think, I mean, I am comforted in the fact that I think that those who have gone on, like Phil, like my mom, that they are in a better state currently, whatever that is. Well, they're with the Lord. That was the point. You may not have been listening during that time. The three times that's referenced, what happens when you die? And my point was, you're with the Lord.

Yeah. Yeah, and they're acting as a great cloud of witnesses. I do believe that they are cheering. That's another one. That's a good one. I'll go with that. And there are some examples where the spirits of those gone past broke back through. We did one, Zach, and First Samuel.

Hebrew's 12 has that reference. Remember it said where you've come, it said you've come to the spirits of righteous men may have hurt. And I think it's key. I think you mentioned this on the First Peter passage that when Christ dies, he does go into shield or like the realm of the dead. But I would probably agree he doesn't go into that place of torment. That Christ goes in because when Christ goes, when he dies, we see that he has a purpose in his death when he does go there. to preach to those who are in prison. So he's not there suffering.

He's in there preaching, and it's a proclamation of victory. That's the 1st Peter 3 passage, if you want to go look that up. We talked about that before we started. It was like, well, did he go, you know, to hell? And I'm not so sure he really went there, but if he did, I agree with that it was with a purpose to proclaim.

But I want to, I know we're going to run out of time here, because we have a guest coming on. I did want to give this quote from one of my favorite books, The Great Divorce, because it helps me understand this is not a theological, like, dissertation or anything. It's just more of a meta view of understanding the nature of hell versus heaven in more of an eternal state. And if you read that book, you get the picture of like, like, it's how you perceive the world around you in some respect. And he says that hell is a state of mind. You never said a truer word. and every state of mind left to itself,

every shutting up of the creature within the dungeon of its own mind is in the end hell. So you get this picture of hell when you think about separation from God, what does that really mean? I'm separated from God's revelation of true life and I'm shut up inside myself. It kind of gets that past, that in that Romans passage where he just finds wrath of God

being left of your own vices. But listen to how he contrasts that with the concept of heaven. but heaven is not a state of mind. Heaven is reality itself. All that is fully real is heavenly for all that can be shaken, will be shaken. This is the Hebrew passage, right? And only the unshakable remains. That's why the kingdom of God is unshakable.

When everything shakes, all the fake stuff falls off. But if you're in hell, it doesn't fall off of you. You actually are in the vortex of things that are shakable that are fake and not real. and you're left to your own vices. Heaven is to actually be in reality and to experience the presence and the fullness of the God who made you. But you can only experience that if you're in reality. So that really describes Hebrews 12, what you mentioned is that picture. And then even in Hebrews 13, you see the other side.

I wanted to say C.S. Lewis would agree with that when he made this quote, Hell is God honoring human freedom apart from God. He said that in the great divorce. So I guess the takeaway, and then we'll pick this up next time because, as Zach said, we have a guest, is we're centering more on heaven or hell as the idea of presence or lack there of versus place, which is where most people like to talk about. So we'll pick it up next time. I've got a guest coming on, talking a little bit more about our bodies in this next segment.

So we'll see you next time with this discussion on Unashamed. Welcome back to Unashame. We've been talking about the power of the body and eternal life. And we have one of our favorite guest on Kim Bright, who's the founder of Bright Core Nutrition, one of our partners that we love getting a chance to talk to and find out what's going on in her world. And she always, Kim, you always bring something that I've never thought of,

before to our podcast to think about health and how to do better. And before we came on air, you were congratulating at least now in 41 years of life together. And the blessing of this life in Christ is that we want to try to do the best we can, right, while we're here. Amen to that. I mean, I don't think he put us on this earth to go around being sick and flabby and overweight. And, you know, everybody's got to get it all together and let's get healthy and let's live longer. Well, since you were owned last time, I've been taking kimchi, which has been really great, I will say.

It's probably been, I don't know, it's probably been a month or so since we've had your own. So it's been good for me. It took me a while to finally get caught up in my own nutrition to add this to my mix, and it's been really good. I want to ask you because one of the things you sent ahead was this. You always kind of give us a thing about different factors that are out there working against us. and you sent some really intriguing things to us this time about microplastics. Can you tell the audience a little bit about that and sort of the inherent danger that's there and some of the things we can do to combat that?

Yeah, I think so many people aren't even aware of this because it's one of the greatest threats to our health and it isn't something people think about, which is microplastics. And these are tiny plastic particles. They're smaller than five millimeters. And they form when larger plastic items are breaking down through sunlight, friction, heat. They're found everywhere, Al, in our oceans, in our rivers, the soil, the food, drinking water, even the air. They're probably there in the swamp in Louisiana, you know, amidst everything else. And because these particles are so small, they're easily moved through the food chain.

And they're entering our bloodstream and our organs. And it's so sad because humans are now inhaling. on average, every breath we take, each day we're inhaling 68,000 microplastic particles. And again, these microplastics are found 94% of our water in the United States, 88% of our meat and seafood and other protein sources. And humans are ingesting six times more microplastics than they did in 1990. Yeah, and it's something that really people don't even think about, right? I mean, you know, and yet it's out there happening.

Tell some of the negative things it does to your body. Well, right now there's been studies out that show that our brains are now 99.5% human and 0.5% plastic. They found seven grams of plastic in our brain now. That's the equivalent of a plastic spoon. And this is having devastating impacts on our health. And let me tell you how frightening this is, y'all. Well, microplastics, when they're found in blood clots, they're linked to higher risks of heart attacks and strokes. And if microplastics are found in your veins or your arteries, you're 4.5 times more likely to die from heart attack or stroke.

And microplastics, and this is important too, because I know you're all working out on your anniversary there, Microplastics, it devastates our ability to retain muscle mass. And it even is impacting our bone density, making it weak and brittle. It goes right down into where, you know, the bottom of the bone there and just breaks it all up. They're affecting our reproductive ability, our sperm camp. So people are having less children. And here's the most frightening thing of all. They're altering our DNA.

They're causing DNA damage. And this is concerning because it's the lead. risk factor for diseases like cancer. How does the kimchi play into this whenever you, I've been taking it as well, but is it, I know it's associated with a lot of the inflammation in the gut, but how does kimchi one help counterbalance, I guess, the microplastics? Well, it does this. I was so excited to find a study that was published that showed kimchi actually

degrades the most toxic chemical in plastic, which is BPA. And it's degraded by a certain strain that's found in kimchi. It has over 900 different unique strains. But this strain is found in kimchi and it's called bacillus pumilus. And it's, as I said, uniquely found in kimchi. And that led me to look at another study that was done just recently in 2025. And it showed two other lactobacillus strains that were found in kimchi that can actually. actually absorb the microplastics and then excrete them in vivo. That means in something living. This was bacillus parcassii and bacillus plantarum. And this is just one of many studies that are shown us the powerful benefits of kimchi because there's so many other studies I've read out

there that show it reduces obesity. It reverses hair loss. It thickens hair. It improves cardiovascular health, lowering the triglycerides, lowering blood pressure, and helping balance out blood sugar. There's just so, so many health benefits, Zach. Yeah, so interesting. I think everyone wants to reach for like a pharmaceutical first, but I'm like, it's kind of, you know, don't start there, start with some of these other alternative medicines that have such a long history, especially kimchi. I mean, it's been around for, I don't know, I mean, I started eating it first, Kim, but my wife, she kind of put the kibosh on me eating it in the house. So that's when I found out about your.

Because of the smell? Yeah, yeah. It does smell bad. So she's like, don't eat that in the house. So it's been for me. But I was getting a great health benefit from it. So once I found out you can get it in the capsule form, I was like, oh, this is perfect for me. So I was already on the train before we even met.

Well, that's good here because, you know, kimchi's been around for centuries. and they've shown over in Korea how important a food this is. It is the superfood of all fermented foods. So kimchi's been around for a long, long, long time. I mean, down south here we have chow chow and things like that and sourcrow and pickles, but they're not the same as kimchi. They do not have over 900 different unique bacterias. They've got a lot of good healthy bacteria, but they don't have over 900 unique forms.

And we've got to protect our gut because it's an onslaught of these microplata. coming at us every single day from every angle. And this is the only thing that I've read up on anywhere that can degrade these plastics that we're taking in. And some of them are so tiny, we can't even see them. Those are called nanoplastics as well. So people don't even realize they're being inundated every day with all these microplastics. It's almost impossible to get away from it too because, I mean, that's in everything that we eat now. So it's like it's not, you can't really, we've tried to find like the diet that you

could eat that but it's just it's like it's a full-time job trying to keep up with the diet side of it so this is if you're like us busy i mean you're not going to be able to do that uh so this is for me it's like a good solution exactly and you don't have to deal with the taste or the odor and there's so many other benefits from it other than the microplastics as i went over i mean it really does affect every single organ in our body when we're taking care of gut the gut and eating the kimchi And that's why we wanted to make it easy for people, you know, to get on a daily basis. And that's why we decided, let's create kimchi one, which is a capsule, you know, that you can use every single day and not have that order or the bad taste. And a lot of people out there are on low sodium diets and they can't have regular kimchi because when you make kimchi, it's loaded up with sodium or you buy it from the store.

So unlike the storebought, we've, you know, we've taken most of the sodium out. And it's 100% made in the USA. It's all natural, non-GMO. And you guys, there's so many success stories that we've had with it, digestion, regularity. People have problems with their immune system and 70 to 80% of our immunities in our gut. And these people told us, you know, they used to get sick all the time. And now they're not getting sick. So the other thing, too, is people were just lack of energy, chronic fatigue, and they're calling us and saying, hey, I've got energy like I cannot believe.

And they feel better overall. Well, yeah. Go ahead. I was just going to say it's definitely, I've noticed everything you said in terms of regularity immune system myself. So I can speak to this product. It's great. Kim, anytime you come on, you always give our viewers and listeners a pretty good. deal. Have you got something for us today? Yes, I do. We can give them 25% off their order of

kimchi 1 using the code Unashamed. Go to mybritecore.com forward slash unashamed or get up to 50% off and free shipping when you call in. That's 888404-967. And again, you guys know, I've been an educator on this for almost 50 years now and helping so many people. I've directly, you know, counseled 15,000 people. So I want you all to call so we can make sure that this is a right product for you. And you can ask your questions and I'll tell you what, it's Thanksgiving. And we're thankful for you guys and everybody. But let's throw in for the first 100 callers that call today, a free bottle of Fortify.

Now, this is incredible. This fortify contains all nine essential amino acids to protect against cell damage to retain muscle mass, boost hormone production, and support your brain chemistry. And normally, we're not giving away such an expensive product as a gift, but we want to support people during the holiday season. So if you can call us at 888404-967, get that up to 50% off, get free shipping, and get this incredible Fortify. to really help your body with all those things I just mentioned as well as the kimchi. I think you'll be real happy. Well, Kim, it's always a blessing having you on our podcast.

You're a great partner and a great sponsor. You're also a great living example of not only a believer in Christ, but also one who wants to steward what God has given us in a better way. So thank you for all you do, and thank you for being on with us today. Well, God bless you all, and healthy, happy holidays. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube

and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.