Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1239 | The Robertsons’ Best Advice for Avoiding Pornography

Episode Date: January 2, 2026

Al, Zach, John Luke, and Christian explore one of the Bible’s most sobering warnings about sexual sin through the story of King David. The guys explain why pornography and sexual temptation rarely begin with desire alone, but with idleness, boredom, and abandoning responsibility—long before the “rooftop moment.” Al explains David’s repentance in Psalm 51 as both a warning and a hope, reminding listeners that while sexual sin carries real consequences, God’s covenant faithfulness still offers a path back. In this episode: 1 Samuel 13, verse 14; 1 Samuel 16, verse 7; 2 Samuel 7, verses 8–16; 2 Samuel 11, verses 1–27; Psalm 22; Psalm 23; Psalm 51; Psalm 139, verses 13–16; Matthew 12, verses 43–45; Hebrews 12, verses 28–29 Today's conversation is about Lesson 6 of The David Story: Shepherd, Father, King taught by Hillsdale Professor Justin Jackson. Take the course with us at no cost to you! Sign up at http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/ More about The David Story: Encounter the beauty of the Bible. The David Story: Shepherd, Father, King explores the lives of Israel's first two kings—Saul and David—to discover the Bible’s profound lessons about fatherhood, the nature of sin, and the consequences of sin on both a family and a nation. While David suffers great tragedies due to his own transgressions, he models a path to redemption through repentance. Join Professor Justin Jackson in a careful reading of First and Second Samuel to gain a deeper understanding of the meaning and beauty of this story that is not only fundamental to the Christian and Jewish faiths, but also a literary masterpiece. Join us today in this pursuit of a deeper understanding of the Bible in “The David Story.” Sign up at ⁠http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/ Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/at-home-with-phil-robertson/id1835224621 Listen to Not Yet Now with Zach Dasher on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or anywhere you get podcasts. Chapters: 00:00-05:15 Christian joins the bearded brotherhood 05:16-12:56 David was a man of extremes 12:57-19:18 Great leaders are still deeply flawed 19:19-29:59 Using God’s name to advance a political agenda 30:00-40:02 Boredom leads to spiritual vulnerability 40:03-51:03 David didn’t have a phone, he had rooftops — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Father, I just want to come to you, and I'm so grateful that Zach had the awareness that we should, you know, pause and just ask you to bless everything that we do. And especially into this very important Bible study, I know people are following along with us, and we get the opportunity and really the pleasure of getting to study this together and be impacted by it as I was this morning already. So thank you for that. just pray Holy Spirit that these words will be your words and only the ones that you carried along all those years ago through David, through the lineage that led to Jesus, but also the same thing you do in our lives every day. And that's lead us closer to you and closer to Christ.

So just pray that you will do what you do best today and that we won't get in your way. We love you. We thank you for Jesus in his name. Amen. Amen. I am unashamed. What about you?

Well, welcome back to the Unashamed podcast Hillsdale episode. This is great because I know that Christian, you said you got, you were up at 3 a.m. in the morning going through these courses. You know it's good when somebody gets up at 3 a.m. to go through a. Hillsdale course. Yeah, I was. I was going deer hunting, but I was really wanting to go deer hunting just so I can listen to Dr. Jackson at 3 a.m.

Matt, did you get that picture? You had to show, Mattie will show the picture on the show, because he took a picture of it. Of course, I would never even know how to do that in my truck. I was marveling at the fact you were able to do it. I was like, well, I can only do it on my computer

with my blue notepad. I was like, once again, the technical. I wasn't, for those listening, I was not watching it at 3 a.m. when I was driving. I was listening to it while I was driving. But I was actually so locked in. I think I was more focused listening that early than I would be just in the afternoon.

So I'm feeling well prepared for today. Dr. Jay, he listens. I know he's going to be so impressed that you listen to him at 3 a.m. Yeah, I had an hour drive at the deer stand, and Dr. Jackson was in my truck with me the whole time. And I just want to say, Christian, welcome to being a man, because you have a beard now, sort of. Thank you. Yeah, it's growing. It's coming.

And so he has now joined the bearded broadcast. Yeah. You know, he's been beardless. I've been the one beardless guy here. Yeah. I like it. It looks good on it. Well, look at John Luke.

I mean, that's a, say, that's a family beard there. Oh, yeah. It's impressive. I shaved half of it off this morning, too. I cut it down to look nice for you guys. You put beard oil in? Yes, I do beer oil. Yep.

John Luke is the new Absalom. He's got the hair going. I love that. I cut five shekels off of my face. the beard off. Did you lose your strength at all? I mean, how are you done on your... We're going to get out of forecasting.

We're going to get to absalom's hair, but is his hair just really long, or is it just, like, short and heavy? Yeah, there's a thickness there. It's long. It's long and thick. Like, Rapunzel? Long enough to get long enough for it to get hung up.

Oh, that's true. I forgot about that. It's got to be, but it could be, like, just wavy, but if it's like, or is it like Rapunzel? I would say not quite Rapunzel. I would think it, I mean, My gut tells me, based on the ex of Jesus, that it was probably about mid-back.

The theology of Absalon's area. The theology of Absalon's hair. So did you grow the beard Christian for hunting season? That was the kind of... Because that's how it started, you know, for us. It wasn't like this whole, you know, beards are cool. It's just, it was warmth and, you know, less face paint. Yeah, well, I was wanting to start, like, beginning of October,

but then we were still filming stuff for the show. show so I couldn't like change my look for stuff and things like that. Continuity. I am. Yes. But I started like probably three weeks ago. But yeah, I told Sadie I wanted to grow my hair out long for the fall and try to do a beard just for the rest of duck and deer season.

So I'll probably shave after. Yeah, my, I can't see like I used to. So I put my glasses on. I can kind of see, it's like a little starter beard. That's Phil would say it's a little yasser-eraphat beard. Yeah. It's a starter pack. That's what they tell.

me, Christian, back in the day when I would grow mine, because I was typically beardless, because I was a pastor, which little old ladies don't love big, thick beards. And so that was why I never grew it out long. But they wouldn't make fun of me. So now, unfortunately, I'm trying to do the same thing to you. Your beard looks good. It looks kept. Yeah, mine is now very white and honoring of my years now that I'm in my 60s. So as dad would say, I'm pushing 70s. Yeah, I'm starting. Well, we're in the story of David. Primarily two chapters are going to hang out in for a little.

We may actually, we talked about it this morning now. It's like, I think we need to might hang out in 2nd Samuel 11 and Psalm 51. We may extend this out into next week's Hillsdale episode. It's so good we have to, Zach. It's just, to me, it's one of the, and it's just such a sad thing. I thought Dr. Jackson did a great job of, like, framing the sadness of this story, you know, because it is so bad. Although this has kind of been the theme the whole time with the fathers and the sons, and here we go again. But it's so rich in the idea of being able to come back from, like, the worst thing you could imagine as well.

So there's just so much redemption there. I just feel like we've got to talk about a couple of podcasts for sure, Zach. Yeah. And you guys can go check this out too. I go to Unashamed for Hillsdale. You can sign up for the courses with us. We've already completed Genesis and Exodus, and now we're in the story of David. So that's the course we're taking right now.

But I would encourage you to go back and, I mean, we release these every Friday. And the course is free for you to take it if you want to take it with us. And I would encourage you go back. And a lot of you are, by the way. I got some of the stats from Hillsdale. So a lot of you guys are not, I mean, you're registering for more than one in course, which is great because we really want to educate the audience and ourselves in the Bible. So this is great.

And this passage or this particular part we're in the day. One thing you said, Al, too, you said this really resonates with you and Lisa's story, particularly this Psalm 51 because, you know, to kind of set the backdrop here. You got David, who we've been like holding David up as this guy with just great character. He was anointed. He is now in public leadership. I mean, this, I mean, he's doing the thing that he should be doing. And he's kind of, the way we presented him, or I say the Bible has presented him up into this point,

is kind of juxtaposed to Saul, who is really evil. David's the guy. I mean, he is the perfect hero, except that he's not, right? So this is not a tale of a perfect hero. It's actually the story of a deeply flawed man who is still held by God's covenant faithfulness. And so that really is the story. And so, yeah, you want to kind of get us up to speed, Al, with what? I wanted to quote a scripture, because you set it up well.

There was this secret anointing, but to remember, this was from 1st Samuel 13, 14, Samuel is rebuking Saul, because you're right. All we've had now is this comparison of these two men. And he says, but now your kingdom will not endure. The Lord has sought out a man after his own heart. and Dr. Jay has really zeroed in on this heart thing. And I never realized it was in there so much till he pointed that out. And appointed him ruler of his people.

And then you get to, that's first Samuel with 13, 14. Then you get to 16.7. And you see Samuel, who said that to Saul makes the same mistake. Remember when the older brother Eliab is there and he's like, ooh, look at this guy. Yeah. I bet he's the guy. And then God has to remind Samuel and says, you do not consider his appearance or his height, which is how Saul got picked, remember.

For I have rejected him, talking with the older brother. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart. So here was this heart motif and imagery again. But the idea is that that shows you that David, there was a goodness about him throughout this entire process. And to me, the greatest part of the narrative now is what we're getting into. today and next podcast is that great men are still flawed men, you know. And even when we look at the Bible, you know, it's easy for us to draw lines on heroes and villains, kind of how we want to,

but really, everybody is a villain in some way, because we're flawed people, and everybody can have heroic moments, you know, and we see that even, you know, with some of the guys like Saul, who had some moments, you know, where you look at it, oh, man, there was, it wasn't all bad. remember back when we looked at Eli, and he had so many issues, but at the same time he was so concerned about the art, you know, that he loved God. So I just think this idea of the heart

and the idea that David has the right heart, but then loses his way is such an important thing to me. So I guess that kind of gets us up to this moment about what's going to happen in January 11. So he starts, yes, we're going to pick up in 11, but he starts the lecture 6 with 2 Samuel 3, kind of with Abner joining David, and then when Joe up kills Abner,

and then there's this one thing that I want to kind of get y'all's opinion on because it's interesting, and I never really hear people talk about it. But I thought what Dr. Jackson was cool was kind of showing the difference between the political and the personal. And one of the points he made was with, was when David, you know, comes into the kingdom, and he points out that, you know, when McCall sees, David, she says King David, not her husband David, but I think it's cool how, and we'll get

to that in the later lectures, how the distinction between David, King David, and husband, like the different uses of kind of what people see him as, you know, later on with Absalom and stuff. But the part that to me was interesting was, you know, when Abder comes and joins David, and David's request is for him to go bring back his wife. And the part, you know, that talks about, I guess she has a new husband and then he, I'm curious to know what, the distance is between, you know, where they're at to Bahudram. Because it says, but her husband went with her weeping after her all the way. Then Abner said, go home, and he returned.

Like, at some point, Abner's like, just go home. And the guy's like, okay. He's been following along for a long time. Yeah. It's, yeah, that begins the whole sad story. You're right. I forgot about that. the idea that this poor man, and he loves his wife.

I mean, like, he, the poor guy. Like, this is what I'm saying. He's only done the right thing because David remembered this whole betrothal happened as just a way to prove his manhood. Remember because he go down and he does the Philistines, four skins and all this stuff? And so he never really cared about her. And so I don't know, you know, Dr. Jackson was talking about, was it just a political alliance?

or, you know, was it more than that from David's perspective? Yeah. It certainly didn't work out well. Yeah. You know, because she winds up. She loves him. Yeah. You know.

Yeah. Because the part that was interesting, you know, talks about when he comes back from, when he comes back in the city and when, when she sees him. And David thinks that she's, you know, kind of rebuking him for dancing for, like, political reasons. But Dr. Jackson kind of makes the point that he thinks that. that she was rebuking David for more personal reasons. And kind of that contrast between her father and David.

And so in the kingship of that. So I thought that was interesting. Which it appears to me, and this is just subjective, but it appears to me that for David it was political. I mean, I really think that's why it brings her back. And I thought it was probably kind of a harsh call, too, because, I mean, she's already married to somebody. I mean, you know what I'm saying?

I mean, he had the right to do it and he did it. And he's the king, for sure. But, I mean, like, the guy's weeping all the way back home. I mean, that's, and again, this is a guy who gets angry about one thing, but then he just kind of exerts his control in another moment. Yeah, I thought, I thought that was one of the most interesting things in this part of the lesson. I've just never heard that about Michael loving David and that take on she was angry with him

because she loved him. And that kind of like shift from love to hate. Yeah. And how, I mean, we see this in life and in marriage. Like, the more you love someone, the harder that break is. And the more she hated him and was better afterwards. Yeah. I just totally made sense to me.

Yeah. And I've never heard that before. You know the phrase that comes up later with the whole Tamar or the instance where the rape happens and all that? He hated her more than he elizabeth. loved her, which is kind of that same thought you're talking about. And you're right, John Luke, it's a, when it shows you the intensity of the emotions in these relationships, which is kind of the whole narrative of the story. And yet when you put it in a political environment where you're

also like, have this family that's, you know, supposed to be shepherding all of Israel, you start to see the behind the scenes what begins to happen when it falls apart. It's so ugly and so, so terrible. you know, and when a shepherd loses his way. And I think we could say the same thing today, right, Zach? I mean, you see these falls from grace, we call them. Someone who is a shepherd of a large growing, fast-growing church, and good things are happening, and people's lives are being changed. And all of a sudden, they'll just be this trained derailment over some sinful situation or some whatever. And we, I mean, we see it play it out over and over It's like the evil one has a playbook.

You got a blueprint. I mean, it's funny we had this conversation this morning when we did you all having coffee. And she, because we were doing, we're planning for another podcast, the other podcast I'm on, not yet now. We were talking about this particular part in scripture, and she came up with this line that you've all heard it. And the line is that Satan will, he will take you further than you ever intended to go and keep you there longer than you ever intended to stay. And I've heard, like, a lot of preachers use that line. So she was trying to find out who originally said it. And she said, you'll never guess who is most attributed with this statement that Satan will take you further than you ever intended

to go. And he'll keep you there longer than you ever intended to stay, which is a pretty, like, scary thought, right? And the person that she said when she looked it up that was that this statement was most associated with was Ravi Zacharias. And I think, thought about David when his story played out, you know, this guy was this great spiritual leader, someone who really impacted my life a lot, and then had this other thing going on that was so dark. And I'm not saying that David was quite in that spot, because David did turn and repent. And I think that's the big difference. But, man, he did go into a very, very dark place. And so, yeah, David's not like the greatest guy in the world, but I don't think that's why

God says he was a man after his own heart, I think it was because he, his willingness as we'll see later to repent. But I wanted to point out, though, that... Let me say something before you go there. Hold, I thought it was that. Because I'm so glad you brought up Ravi, because when you said it, I immediately knew who it was. Because I thought, I mean, I was a huge listener to Ravi.

And so when I would drive in to preach, he was here locally, his podcast, or his radio show back then, would play here on one of our local, stations, and it happened to coincide with my drive-in to preach. So, like, I would list, I would already have my sermon prepared, but I would hear his stuff, and then it would impact how I shared my sermons, because it's so good. And so then when I hear the news after he died, he had kind of a whole secret life thing going on, obviously it's devastating to someone

who loved what he did, but it also reminded me that all the good things that he shared, which were by God and the Holy Spirit, even through his flaws as a human being and his sin problem he had, still impacted me and still allowed me to impact other people. In other words, it didn't take that away. 10 years of listening to him and being impacted

and then sharing that with other people before I ever found out about the other, doesn't change the fact that happens. And so I think he is a perfect example of what we're talking about here. You know what I'm glad you brought him up because that personally affected me in a powerful way. Obviously, I was hugely disappointed, but I didn't just cast it aside and say,

well, yeah, man, that taints him forever and he didn't do anything good. No, he blessed me for 10 years. And those blessings were real. And so it just reminds you, you can't just cast aside people because they have a sin problem. I mean, so I'm glad you brought them up.

And by the way, if you want to check in what we're doing here, go to Hills. Go to Unashamed for Hillsdale.com. You guys can sign up and take this course for free with us. We're in the story of David. But when you were saying that, another thing I think we can keep in mind, there's a Jonathan Edwards quote. I just looked it up. So it may not be exact, but you'll get the point of it. This was in his resolutions. And I think he wrote these when he was around like 19, 20 years old. So he was a young guy. And I may get this wrong, but it's something

to the effect of when you see men fall into the most horrible, like the grossest of sins, we ought to look upon it as a discovery of the corruption of our own hearts as well as there. So it's basically we're looking at this. And when I saw that with Ravi and other people, I don't think, my first reaction is, oh, man, David. And then my second one is, what about me? Like, I don't, you know, I don't feel like we could all be susceptible to this type of evil if we give into it and we're unrepentant with it. And so for me, that's like the story here in David is, well, what was his story?

Well, his was the story of repentance, but it also was a story of severe consequences, even though he repented. Like, he did suffer greatly, and his kingdom really did fall apart, particularly when you look at the end of Solomon's life, then after that, I mean, let's face it. I mean, the rest of Israel's kings and Judah's kings,

I mean, they weren't, I mean, it just is one debacle after another, you know what I mean? Yeah, and I've said this before, because Solomon was blessed, But God only chose one king. I mean, David. You know, Saul didn't get chosen by God. We talked about this in this study.

And David did. And even Solomon started a lineage concept that then gets split and goes into terrible times for Israel. And as you said, only three or four or five kings were actually very good at all, out of all the kings. And so, but God only picked to one. And he said in leading up to 11, which is where we're headed, remember when Nathan, he said, tell David he used to be the shepherd and the king of Israel, and this kingdom will be unshaken, which the same thing he's going to tell later to Solomon. But Zach, I couldn't help but think about Hebrews 12 when I heard that. Oh, yeah. You know, because you remember that at the end of chapter 12, the Hebrew writer says, Jesus, the kingdom that Jesus established here is an unshaken kingdom.

So you see the threads are coming all the way forward from David to Christ. I mean, that's really the purpose that's underlying through this whole thing that happens. But again, it's being ushered in by flawed people. Yeah, to your point, like God only chose one king, but really he chose another one, right? That's right. Jesus, who would be a king in the line of David. But I want to get y'all's thoughts on this because we were talking about, you know, David, reclaiming of Michael and, you know, was it political or was it personal?

I think the thread from Dr. Jackson, which I think I agree with it, too, it was both. It wasn't, it wasn't separated. You know, in Scripture, you know, the political is never really detached from the personal. And I think that one of the areas that we're struggling with today in the church, and I understand why, but we do tend to want to separate these two worlds, right? And I think about that Kuiper quote that says something like there's not one square inch of the whole entire earth that the sovereign Lord does not cry mine. And I think that what we're seeing here in David's display, I think it, I know he's talking about, is it personal, is it political? I think the divide and how we see that play out today

is it political or is it spiritual as if these two things are separate from one another but really you can't separate the personal and the spiritual from the political it really all is wrapped up together I wanted to if you guys like picked up on any of that at all or have thoughts on that I told you I had the same thought about David

I mean just in general this going to this part of David's story I thought that in the first half of David's story story. He was kind of this rising political figure and we saw him as, you know, the hero. He's going to do great things. He's killing all these guys. He's beating the bad guys. Like he's in the right. And the whole time, he's keeping his relationship with God and keeping his priority, priorities right as the chosen one of God and doing God's will and doing God's will.

doing what he thought was right in the situations. Like he didn't let his politics overcome his personal convictions. He didn't kill Saul. He didn't take more than he was owed. Like he gave to his men. He felt regret over the cloak thing. Yeah, he felt regret. Like he let his, you could say, spirituality direct his political rise.

But then the second half, when he becomes king, you see that downfall. and you see his priority shift, and he starts to make political decisions. He starts to make spiritual decisions or moral decisions based off his politics. Like his power. With Bashiba, he tries to hide it. With Michael, he brings her back to, you know,

create this line. I think it's complicated. I think he, you know, it's some personal, some spiritual, some political or whatever. But it's very obvious that, he's gone from shepherd to king and he wants to maintain his kinghood and he's forgetting about his

task as shepherd. No, that's so good. That's so good. And you're right. The warning was from Nathan is you can't separate the shepherd from the king. They have to be as one. Which to your point, Zach, the true king

is a true shepherd. Right. I mean, yeah, it's a super, yeah, it's a super earthy. That's the adjutant. I keep coming up with. It's like it's an earthy, earthy, earthy view of the kingdom. And I just have to reject the fact that, or the thought that, that God was super involved in earthly things, you know, in the Old Testament, and then Jesus comes and everything becomes spiritual. I don't think that's what the Bible teaches. So I, but I think we've kind of

embrace this. And I understand why, because nobody wants to be attached to a political movement. And I do think you have to be careful of taking the kingdom of God and conflating that with like a political party or even a nation for that matter. Like God's kingdom is well beyond the walls and borders of any nation or any political party or any political movement. But Christ certainly has something to say. And his kingdom certainly has implications in politics. You can't really separate that out. You can't separate the shepherd from the king. And I think that that's what we're trying to do today,

mainly I think because we are maybe afraid of the repercussions of when we step out there in that world. You know what I mean? Because it does come with some. Right. I mean, I think, oh, sorry, go ahead. I think that is the danger, was the danger of David and the danger of in America right now is people using Christianity

to advance their goals when they're actually just making political decisions instead of the other way around. Settling their relationship with God or their view of moral or ethics or spirituality direct their politics, they're saying, I've got the right idea for the nation, and I'm going to pick and choose these Bible verses or these ideas of God to help me attain those goals because I'm in the right. Well, and you see that in a practical way. by the way, go to unashamed for hillstale.com to sign up and take the course for free

that we're taking as well. I think the pro-life movement would be a good picture of what you're talking about. Obviously, we're strongly pro-life because we believe what, oddly enough, David wrote, and so on 139, you created my inmost being. You knit me together in my mother's womb, right? And so we believe that. So we believe, you know, that's where life is. But there's a lot of politicians I've met in the,

process. And you can almost, I mean, I'll go to a thing. I'm in D.C. They're there. They're for my cause, which I'm glad. But then when I meet them, it's like, it doesn't feel like it's real. And I won't call anybody out. But some of them just seem like they're totally doing it. Right. To advance their own political movement where they are. But I get the feeling like as soon as they walk away, they could make a deal with somebody on the other side and, you know, and just not publicly talk about. So it's like you hijack these. things that really matter, you know, to God, just to make points. Right. With a party or with something else. Yeah. And if the point is, if it helps what I think God would want, like if it

aligns with God's will, I'm super pro that. I'm not saying, don't do it. But we as Christians, I need to be super aware of that. Exactly. I'm saying, like, what is the motivation here? Because you can't swallow all the bull. But on the flip side, yeah, I mean, I think that is certainly true what you guys are talking about, and that's a great point, John Luke. The response to that that I think is equally as dangerous is the critique that the Christians should not be involved in politics. I kind of hear that through the language of, like, one of the phrases that's being thrown around a lot right now is Christian nationalism. And people like freak out, like, I'm not that. Whatever that is, that sounds like Adolf Hitler, I'm not that, you know. But, you know,

I think that it's difficult to escape. You know, if you're a Christian, like most of the people that I see that are critiquing Christian nationalism are also promoting some form of Christian nationalism. I saw one the other day. A guy was talking about Trump's, how Trump's handling the border wall or the ice raids and all that stuff. And wherever you stand on that, that's not my point.

The point is, if you make an ethic that you're holding Trump to when it comes to how he's handling immigration, then you are in fact a Christian national. Fine, I mean, you have your position. Like, let's discuss what that is. But if you're a Christian, we certainly, everybody certainly wants to see the spirit of Christ embodied into the nation. I don't know why you wouldn't. Why would you not want Jesus permeating the polis, you know, the political public realm?

I mean, we do want him there. And we want to see, you know, a God that roots kingship. and the politics in shepherding, not in domination. Or another way he could say it is that God roots, he roots the kingdom, or he roots kingship and anchors it in dominion, but not domination. And the difference between dominion and domination is domination is having rule over people and dominion is cultivation of the earth for the beauty and the glory of God.

So I think that God does want us, we see it in the story of David, and you can kind of see when when David is aligning with God, then you actually see him flourishing. And then when you see him abdicating his alignment with God and instead, like using his power to get what he wants, then you see just incredible destruction and generational curses coming to play here. Well, and John Lee talked about that when you look at the first half of this sort of rise of David, the way I wrote a jot a couple of things down is he had faithful timing in the sense that in the Goliath story,

he showed faithful, what I would call faithful impulsiveness. In other words, he was offended that this, you know, Philistine was like talking about God. And he was like, somebody's got to do that. I'll step up, I'll do what I have to do. So there was all an impulsiveness about it, but it was faithful. And then you see him also having a faithful. patience because as you mentioned with Saul, he just like was so long suffering. It was like he just kept, you know, saying he's the king, he's the king, you know, I'm here to serve him. So you see

these pictures of it. It's like when you look at the Psalms, Psalm 22, David had the insight to write arguably, and there's several Psalms that are messianic, but one of the most messianic Psalms there is and showing this picture of who Jesus was going to be. I mean, so he had that Holy Spirit, insight, and wisdom, then you read Psalm 23. It's like this picture of the shepherd. So there's all these characters and qualities of this man that you see why God loved him so much,

and you see why he loved God so much. But then he gets to first, I mean, second, Samuel 11. Right. You know, here he is, right? Yeah. Just to get an example of kind of what we're talking about now and on Zach's point is the point I'm trying to make is I think that David was in God's plan and knew he was God had a plan for him and he was doing that. And so he didn't hold himself accountable in the same way.

Like I, what I took from this is thinking about like my job at camp. So, you know, I run Camp Chioca, Christian summer camp. I feel like that's exactly where God has me. He's placed me there. He's behind me. He's put me in charge of that for a reason. And the temptation for myself and any, I think any leader of any organization, ever is saying, oh, because I'm in charge, I can do whatever I want. But just because I'm, God's

placed me as the leader, it doesn't mean every action is a good action. I still have to hold myself accountable and to say, okay, now he's put me in this place. What's the next right step here? where David just completely abandoned that and stopped holding himself accountable. And the people around him, except for Nathan, stopped holding him accountable for his actions. Well, and even Nathan had to be prompted

by God to go talk to him. So even just like Nathan, the guy, was different from the guy. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that's the thread that's here. It really is the seedbed of the gospel, right? That you have this flawed individual, David, A lot of times, you know, we think about like even the construction of the temple,

which happens not with David, but with David's son, Solomon, who actually constructs the temple and builds the temple. But we think about that temple motif, which we love the temple motif, don't we guys? I just like the way it rolls off your tongues, right? It's become an inside joke now to the point of Christian creates AI images, which will never be publicized of me and as, he's got all these little memes he's doing. He's such a techno person. He did.

But I think that, but the interesting thing here about this building of the temple is that David, you think he's going to be the guy to build the temple, but he's not the guy to build the temple. And there's that passage in chapter seven where essentially God says, David, you're not going to build a house for me. I'm going to build a house for you. And I think that's an important understanding. of what's happening here in the story of David

because it's that promise that God's going to build a house for David, which is, it sets up, what, it sets up Solomon, and the temple that Solomon's going to build, it sets up the exile, and then it sets up ultimately Jesus as the eternal king in the line of David. And the reason why it's the seed bed of the gospel is because what it shows is that God's covenant holds even when the kings fail.

Yeah. That's our story. that God's covenant holds even when we fail. So even when I'm Ravi Zacharias, even when I'm King David, even when I'm the worst of the worst, like if the covenant depends on my faithfulness, then we're in trouble.

And if the covenant depends on your faithfulness, then we're in trouble. But if the covenant depends on the faithfulness of God, if God's the one who's going to build the house, then we're in great shape. And I think that's, for me, that's like, that's the most encouraging thing about David's horrible,

fall is that. No, I thought, I think the same thing. I think looking at David's life in these chapters in First, Second Samuel as just like a story, I mean, I read, we've talked about this, I read a lot of books, I read a lot of fantasy books, and these like epic, grand fantasies,

and they're all kind of follow the first half of David's life, but then every once in a while an author will write like a sequel, that'll be the second half, like what happens to the hero, You know, 30 years down the road. And I love those stories.

I love them so much. I just read one. It was great. And you see that, like, the story goes on. Yeah. You know, and it makes them such a more rich and complex person because you see yourself in that. Like, we all have rises and falls.

And I think, I mean, I've seen pastors who, uh, I feel like I've been close to Christian leader. an abnormal amount of Christian leaders who have fallen in some disastrous way. And I can think of one in particular who did, but is now come back and is leading a church and is doing great. And there were all kinds of consequences in his life. And I think that's what we see with David too.

There were intense consequences and that God enacted in revenge for the people that David hurt. but God never left David. He still stayed even through the consequences and the revenge that God got on David for the people that he hurt. God was still with David and still gave David the opportunity to come back and that is what Zach was saying too

is encouraging to me and myself of as a leader which hopefully, I mean, I pray, do what I can have relationship with God so that I'll stay faithful. But if that happened or if someone I know that happened to, I know that that's not the end. Like there's another part of the story. Yeah, that's good.

As a reminder, go to Unashamed for Hillsdale.com to sign up and take the course along with us and it's free. So it's a great deal to really get Dr. Jackson's say he's a linguist and a literature guy. And I think that's what brings the study out in the richness of it is looking and kind of we were talking about all the different terminology changes that you don't really notice when you're reading the story. The thing about, is he a king or is he my father or is he my husband, but all those things matter. Yeah. When he was here, when we were doing the Exodus study, he said that first and second Samuel was the most like literature, just rich filled books in the scripture, which was interesting. I didn't really see kind of why when he was explaining it, but now hearing him do the lesson and seeing just kind of how intricate it is, yeah, you really see it.

In 2nd Samuel 11, you know, my just ESV talks about at the time when kings go into battle and the Robert author translation that he's using, I loved it when it said, when kings sallyforth, it sounded so much more just like interesting. I was like, I like, I like that sounded kind of British or something. Salisforth. Well, it was like, first it was I will be there or however, however, however I will be there. But now it's like, you know, when kings go sally forth. Well, you know, and you look at ancient warfare, because I used to love to read a lot of stuff about it, but literally they would have to wait.

You know, they were just like, because of the weather and all this, it was like, just put the war on hold. You know, it's like, you don't put this on a hole until we get better fighting weather. And then we're going to get where we can get the troops where they're supposed to go. And so, you know, there were these timing issues that happened. And it just says it in one phrase, you're right. but it's like it was time for him to go. The key was, I've always thought about this text, and I've said this so many times,

because this, to me, Job 31 and 2nd Samuel 11 are two of the best references in the Bible for men, especially to like not take for granted who you're supposed to be as a man. Job said, I made a covenant with my eyes, and I'd look lustfully at a girl, and he goes into his what it means to look like a man of respect, And here we see David basically he should be, he shouldn't even be there.

He should be with his men. I mean, he's the commander in chief. He's the king. He's like, but he, you know, he can also now make a decision and just stay home and not do what he's supposed to be doing. Right. But in that, and it appears to me, and I could be wrong, that he's just bored. Yeah.

Well, men get into the biggest trouble when we're bored. We're not productive When we're not rich in some kind of You know good spiritual situation When we're not paying attention to our wife or our family When I always say when men are in a position When your family is asleep but you're always awake You're probably going to find yourself in serious trouble

For pornography and all these things come from And so to me it was just such a It was such an obvious trap But in the moment he missed it you know Because he's just out on the roof he's looking around. I always says like he's channel surfing, you know, and he comes across HBO and, uh-oh,

you know, as he's looking down, now he's just a man. He catches the channel as it's something bad going. Exactly. He keeps going, and then he goes up and, you know. Wait, yeah. But if he was at work, guess what he's not doing? I think that's the big story here,

is that the big sin, the big failure, it doesn't begin with the big sin. It actually begins with the abdicated. collective, yeah. Uh-huh. Yes, the abdication of your responsibility, not just responsibility. I, you know, I had this conversation with Fred this morning because I'm taking to school every day.

We have like about 15 minutes in the car every day where I'm like, I'm pounding this into his head. But like, today it was basically, we were talking about what is sin? Like, what is sin? Like, how do you define that? And he said, I don't know, sin. And I'm like, I know, but what is it? To sin?

I was like, yeah, I know, but what is it to sin? It's like, I'm trying to. those good middle school answers, don't you? So I'm like, dude, like, use your words, man. I'm like punching him. Like, wake up, dude, think, you know, vocabulary. Try a different word. But what sin actually is, and I think this is the biblical teaching of it,

it's to abdicate your responsibility to have dominion, cultivate the earth, like to subdue the earth. That is it. Like, we were created with an intent and purpose and design. Genesis 1.28 tells us what that is to be fruitful and to multiply, subdue the earth, have dominion over it. And so what David is doing, he says, I'm not going to do that. I'm actually going to retreat back.

I'm going to chill. I'm going to Netflix and chill. And then I'm just going to hang out. And that was the seed. When kings go out to war, David remains in Jerusalem. It really is the symbol of just him abdicating his God-given role. Not just as it. I mean, like I say it's kingship, but we're all really.

in the kingdom. We're all little kings. And so this is all of us. It's idleness, it's power. It's, it's, it's that he was vulnerable to do this in the first place. Well, and look at all, look at all the opportunities he had to put the brakes on it. Oh yeah. Do these first few verses. Wait, hold on. Here's my, here's my example for all youth pastors out there that you can use and for your kids and your youth to cringe at. David didn't have a phone, but he had rooftops. And he was up there scrolling through the rooftops. Scrolling through the rooftops. Until he saw something, he wasn't something.

That sounds like a guy that runs a youth camp. That's good. The Bible doesn't explicitly say, but I wonder if this was like the first occurrence of him not doing that duty. Because it doesn't explicitly say, but I wonder if like this instance was the first time he didn't go with his men into battle or if there had been like a couple of other times that he had maybe done that. Well, speaking of his men,

you know it had to be over a long period of time because when you get to 2nd Samuel 23, which is one of my favorite chapters, and it goes on to David's Mighty Men, this kind of like last section, I've always loved reading that and thinking about these men who were just doing just crazy adventures.

What was Absalom thinking when he was, Like, you know, I'm like, you got David. Like, what do you do? So, and. Like the Miami do are all kinds of stuff. They're doing their job while David's. Exactly. And that's, of course, the flip here is that Bashiba's husband is one of those guys.

Right. Off where he's supposed to be. And when the deception begins after the affair, he continues to do the right thing. Right. If he makes the point, he was a foreigner too. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Jackson points that out, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Before we go there, I think that I was thinking about this verse in Matthew, where the spirit, you kick out the spirits, let's see what that's at. And basically, it's Matthew 12. When the unclean spirit has gone out of the person, it passes through the waterless places

seeking respite binds none. Then it says, I will return to my house from which I came. and when it comes it finds the house empty swept and put in order then it goes and it brings with it seven other spirits more evil than itself and they entered and dwelt there and the last state of that person is worse than the first and so you read a verse like that you think what does that even mean what does that do what we're talking about here um if we think that the christian life or even the life that god is even pre-christ the life that god called us into it's not a defensive posture. It's not I'm going to sit back and not let sin enter into my house. I'm just to

have this empty house. It's clean. It's in order. There's no sin in it. And my job is to defend that and not let sin in. That is not the call of the gospel. And you can never defeat sin in that way. I think that's the scary part about that verse. If that's how you're pursuing it, which, by the way, a lot of fundamentalist Christianity pushes towards that idea that somehow we're going to, got to keep the sin out, got to keep the sin out. That was not David's problem. David's problem was not that he failed to keep the sin out. David's problem was that he was being lazy and he had retreated. He wasn't doing the thing that he was supposed to do.

His house was empty. It was in order. And that's what gave way for the demons to come in. What he should have been out there acting progressively. He should have been doing something. You should have been out there at war. That's the pitcher. And so there's an old saying that the best, what is it?

The best defense is a good offense. because if you're on offense, then you don't have to defend anything because you're actually on offense and you're the one that's pursuing, which is the picture of the kingdom, by the way, it's why it's unshakable. Because when Jesus later on says that to Peter, he says, who do you say I am, Peter? He says, you're the Christ. He said, that's right, I'm the Christ. And upon this rock, upon that confession, I'm going to build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. And the reason why the gates of hell won't prevail against it is it's the, it's the, it's the, hell is in the defending position. The king's,

is on the offensive position. The kingdom is moving forward. The kingdom will penetrate and bust through the gates of hell. That's what David failed to realize. David abdicated that type of kingdom role. He said, I'm just going to sit back and chill. And because one bad decision begets another. And that's what we see here is the series of decisions that continue to lead him down the path. And that's the flip side of it, Zach. You mentioned you're looking at it on the positive side. the negative side is sin is progressive as well. And one bad decision begets another. And I just read Jersey Joe, our old pal, is written a book, and it's really good.

And in the book, it was one thing that fascinated me, because I never really knew what led him to come here and, you know, meet us and, you know, his whole life change. But he mentioned he was sitting in a fire station, and he's a fire chief. He said, I was doing what I always did. You know, we're downtime. time. I'm not on the clock, but I'm having a drink. I'm watching pornography. It was what he did. And his life was miserable and terrible. He wasn't happy. And his marriage was in a bad place. And he said, because we always think about pornography as being the thing you would click. But in this

case, he's looking at his computer screen and the unashamed podcast, for some unknown reason, pops up on his screen. And he looks over at it. He doesn't know anything about us, but there's dad. and there's a picture of dad. And he says, you know, his instinct was, I want to click on it. But then he's like, pornography is what he's really watching.

And he said, in a moment, I had a choice to click on this or to stay where I was. And he said, I clicked on the icon. And I started listening. He said,

and then the more I listened, the more convicted I got. And the more I'm, who are these people? He didn't even know about the show or anything. Wow. And all of a sudden,

it led him to this place of conviction in his own heart in life. And so I just thought it was fascinating because it was the flip side. Sometimes a good click can change your life. And in his case, he had two choices there of which path to follow. And so when I see David in this story,

and I see these messengers, which we'll talk about in the next podcast because we're almost out of time, but he talks about the messengers that he's sending. He has opportunities to put a stop to this all along the way because they're telling him. She's somebody else's wife. She's like they're giving him all the clues.

Like, yeah, it's the wife of your right. You know, your excellency. I mean, it's like you see these guys. They're like trying to give him the out. And you see all the people around him, see him go down. And you can see them all pulling away. Like, as he gets worse, they're all like, don't talk to David. Don't say anything.

Don't get away. Yeah. And he knows it's going to be bad because in the letter, what does he write to Joe up in the letter? He says, like, don't see this as a bad thing or something like that. Yeah. Yeah, the sword falls. Yeah, where it falls.

You know, good things happen, bad things happen. Don't, don't beat yourself up about this, that we're killing a man and other people while we're at. That's that progressive nature. All right, we're out of time. Well, I say this real quick for you in that. Can you imagine that as you're scrolling through the rooftops to use your analogy and you're looking at Bathsheba. She's beautiful. She's naked.

And then all of a sudden you just glance to the rooftop next. and you see Phil Robertson's face. So that probably was pretty shocking for Jersey. He's coming in for porn and winds up. I mean, that would kill the mate right there. If only, if only dad had been on a route to, we could have changed that. Zach, tell folks where to find it as we sign off. Unashamed for Hillsdale.com.

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