Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1240 | Dave Ramsey Makes His 'Unashamed' Debut with His Buddy Willie Robertson

Episode Date: January 5, 2026

Jase, Al, Zach, and Willie welcome world-famous financial advisor Dave Ramsey for a blunt conversation about the parenting lie quietly raising generations of entitlement. Dave shares hard-earned wisdom on money, discipline, and why trying to make life “easy” for kids often backfires for American families. They explore how debt, instant gratification, and misplaced ideas of fairness undermine responsibility and character. The guys challenge parents to rethink how to raise kids who are prepared for real life—not needing to be rescued from it. http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/ — Sign up now for free, and join the Unashamed hosts every Friday for Unashamed Academy Powered by Hillsdale College Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/at-home-with-phil-robertson/id1835224621 Listen to Not Yet Now with Zach Dasher on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or anywhere you get podcasts. Chapters: 00:00-12:16 Jase figures out who this Dave Ramsey guy is 12:17-17:47 Willie teaches the art of trash talk 17:48-25:32 How Dave Ramsey became the money guru 25:33-36:07 Sell the car!  36:08-43:41 Raising kids without entitlement 43:42-55:37 Fair doesn’t always mean “equal” — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. As promised, Jase, we have promised, and now we have delivered. We said we were starting the new year off of the bang, the very special guests. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. It's good to be back again. We're so glad to have Willie. It's good to be back. And Willie, you brought somebody with you. Who's this guy? Who is this guy? Well, we've been trying to, we've been trying for 30 minutes.

to explain to Jay's who Dave Ramsey is. I have apologized. I told you. My line on that was my dad. Jay's like, who's the other guy here? It was. My dad told me that I had fallen through a crack in society, but that was okay. I'm surviving.

You fell through a crack out of that Volkswagen. We used to drive around and hit the pavement. That's a hole in the bottom. My son showed me one clip of your show, because he said you had a radio show, which then I said, oh, they said, Are they still doing radio? But you explained to me that it's the same kind of thing we're doing. You have radio or podcast slash internet where everybody is.

He showed me one clip, and I thought, yep, common sense and blunt. I see how this guy has been successful. So I'm hooked. There you go. Well, common sense is so rare now. It's like having a superpower. That's true. Well, Dave, I'm just glad you got validated by Jay.

So I'm glad because I know you're often wondering. Well, did it work? Did it work? Did it not? It's all going to work out or not. Here was Jason's question today. Dave sits down here at our table and he says, do you use the Bible? No, I said, do you use the Bible?

In any of your Q&As? That's what he asked. I was just curious. You finally made it to Jay's. This is like a tribe in South America who finally gets the word of God. Jace finally understands who Dave Ramsey is. I knew he was a long time of guy. I know.

Larry that came out, Lord bless all those guys down there in New Guinea. My wife said that we would agree almost everything, and she listens to your show. Dave, I listened to your show back in the talk radio. I was a huge talk radio guy. Yeah.

And I was a ditto head, so it was Rush Limbaugh. I was on local here, and there was a guy named Gryphon. Moon Gryphon. Moon Gryphon. You remember him? I was on Moon show several times.

We came down here and did an event in West Monroe. God, 25 years ago. So this was one of your early markets, big probably. It was an early market. 25 years ago, yeah. I mean, it was a long. I mean, we probably had 100 stations. This really moved the needle.

It was early. But I remember Moon because he's a character and he's a lot of fun. And the state, we filled that Baptist church up downtown, whatever it was. It's real nice people. First Baptist. And that pastor ended up over in Orlando. Oh, that's David. David.

Yeah. Yeah. I ran into David. I was actually using that church. church as a venue too, 20 years later. And I look up doing our mic check and he's walking down the aisle and went, look at this. Guy comes out. We did the Crimson Gospel there.

Yeah, he's a great guy. David's Church, yeah. Yeah, well, Louisiana's full of characters. Kind of like Tennessee. All right, so we have to open. And we've told, I don't know, have we told this story on the podcast? No. But we never listened to the podcast.

Sorry. Sorry. Before you tell the story. Zach. You do a podcast, John? I'm beginning to think that Zach and Willie have the same wardrobe creators because, look, he's wearing like a big, thick vest, Zach, for you. Because Zach, I like that.

It's 65 degrees. Well, Jason just walked out of the duck blind. Didn't really have bring the wardrobe. 65 degrees of it. First time I did the podcast, I got the first question at about minute 72. so I figured there wasn't even a camera on me. Were you even mic to that? That is true.

First time we had it. That was back when we were down the door. And I go duck out today. I'm in the back of the blind too. So. Oh, you got the bag? Yeah. We had a great hot.

We had it. I think we had it worked out. And then Sai last night said, hey, I'm in, boy. Invited himself. And I don't get anywhere. near four feet upside of that line. So, yeah, just sat back and watch the action.

So let me ask you about it. I was sitting beside him. You didn't tell me that. Some things is better for you to learn the hard way. Before we tell the Dave Ram's exact story, I want to hear about your duck hunt that your experience. Is that the first time you've ever heard of duck hunting? Only the second.

Second. It was incredible. I mean, I'm hunted with the dynasty. I mean, come on. Oh, yeah. You were in a place. I get to tell people I hunted.

That's right. I hunted while Willie wrote his memoir sitting on the back. bench, but yeah. But it was a lot of fun. He actually, I will, I will, I was an eyewitness to this. That's why I was asking him about the Bible earlier. Because I, we had downed a teal, and it was real pretty that teal. And I was, even though he didn't look like, I just knew it was a vital heart shot.

And so I took off to go get him. Well, when I was coming back, as I was entering the blind, I heard somebody say, shoot them. And so I just came up and watched the action. And it was just boom, boom, bum, bum, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, I thought, boy, they're ripping them. And I look out, then there's two ducks still flying. And my son shot one, and you shot the other. I was looking right down your gun barrel.

Oh, wow. Yeah. Cy said he shot both those. Well, he did. After they hit the water shot. When I looked at Cy, hey, when his gun went off and Reed shot, I looked at Cy, and he was already reloading. So he wasn't a part of that. So his first, his three went by real quick.

Yeah, he went boom, boom, boom. Look how many I got. Well, I'm glad you got the experience. So. It was incredible. So Willie, do you got to tell this story. It's a one we've told a lot of many times. I don't think we've ever told them.

You know, I've never brought it up since it happened. Yeah. Yeah. I hear this at least 12 times a year, Dave. Sorry, this is the movie. It's the famous Dave Ranches story. Yeah. Oh, no.

So when I was, you know, I'm hustling trying to make money. And so I would go clean up people's yards and construction debris. Willie was an outside guy. And he was a bit of a pyro-mania. He liked to do fire. Love to burn. He loved to burn. From an early age.

Always been a burner. Always raking and burning. Raking and burning. So this is probably when I'm at Duck Commander, right? Probably early. Yeah, probably just started the company. You know, started. And then I'm, so my cousin, Zach,

built this nice house in a country club, you know, and so he calls. He's a pharmaceutical guy at this point. Oh, yeah. He's rolling in the cash. So he hires his cousin to come clean. So I've been out there all day and he finally walks out there, you know. Check on this. Yeah, yeah, with his robe on, you know.

That's not exactly. His gold chains. You got a pipe. Oh, yeah. He's looking to me. He's like, hey, hey, come here. here. What's your name?

Willie, is that your name? So he's like, you know, what's your... They were still calling you Jess, but... He goes, what's your plan, man? What are you going to do? And I said, I think I'm good. And he said, man, I'm on this Dave Ramsey. Dave Ramsey, he has changed my life from him.

I went to pay you. I went to pay you and I pulled out the... I pulled out the envelopes, Dave. Yeah, he pulled out the envelope. And it had yard work. And he's like, what is that? And then I'm... So he has a...

he's getting money and he's going to trash talk to while he's getting money he pulls a hundred he slips that back in he's digging he's fishing for something smaller and uh how many hours you work back here and he says i'm on this day ramsie plan i'm telling you it's you know uh he said in five years i can't remember what you told me in five years you were going to have but he said in five years i'm going to have this now he's just i mean he's preaching your message yeah it's like we're out of the radio unlike jacks he had actually heard your message and um so he says uh What about you? You need to get on this plan. And I said, I'm, I'm all right. I just, you know, I'm just, I think I'll be okay. And he said, no, I'm telling you, man, you're going to end up. What, you want to clean yards a rest of your while?

I'm just wearing it. You know, I'm wearing it. And right before we live, he said, let me just tell you what right now. You do what you do. I'm going to do what I do. We'll see who comes out ahead. I said, okay. And I loaded the trail.

That's not exactly how it happened. You, you were ridicule. killing me. You weren't quite as humble as you're coming across right now. Lo and behold, who was cleaning the yard? Who built the house? I was trying to. You were trashing the guy with hundreds in an envelope. You were trashing the guy with hundreds in an envelope. I'm doing the yard work, so don't be saying I'm acting like I'm humble. I was the one cleaning the yard. And so, and now- So what happened was, as a, as a family would have it. So I worked really hard. I had done Dave's plan actually

So I knew the whole plan myself And worked hard Ended up growing the business The show came along And then I remembered I remembered that when he told me that And so I called him just to see How he was doing

How exactly he was Yeah I just wanted to see where we were in the race You know Wow And then I called him again And then I'd call it It just stuff would happen And I would call him

And it was actually when I spoke at your event, I was at the Gaylord, and they have a two-story, they have a two-story room at that hotel. I never seen anything like it. And so Zach got an, actually you got a video that one. I did. Yeah, you got a FaceTime from me on that one. Hey, remember that time? Remember that time you said? Remember I was hitting golf balls?

I was chipping golf balls in the room. And I said, Zach, tell me how exactly, where are we at still? So, yeah, I brought that up a few times. and now Dave is here, Zach. So, hey, but to be fair, Dave, I've never been in debt because of you. So that's worth something, right? I'm honored. I love to hear that story.

It's so good. He tells the same story about his father-in-law, too. Similar. We don't know what he did your events. Yeah, that he, yeah. All right, so how did y'all get, how did y'all meet? Because we met online. It just said, man seeking another man's friendship.

Yeah. Said wild and woolly. Bearded guy looking for companionship. Hey, this is sounded weird now. Unashamed after darn. I'm going to play this on Adam LaRoche. Adam and I have been buddies. And so I've been doing a pheasant hunt with about 10 guys that I'm close to that all

saw the dudes. And Adam had gone with us a couple times. And I don't know. We were doing something. He said, hey, you need to include Willie. I said, yeah. I never met Willie, let's do it. So the first time I met you, I picked you up here at the airport.

Yeah. And we flew up to South Dakota. And actually, it wasn't the first time we met, but it was the first time we hung out. Yeah. We actually met in the green room at Fox two or three different times. That's true. That's true. Rachel and I were doing a book tour. Rachel, was that her book?

Was that her? Maybe like her first book. Probably 15 years ago. Yeah, we did. We met at the five. Probably to pull up the picture. But, yeah, long time ago. And Hannity's, we were getting ready to Hannity.

That was it. And that was the first time. But, and you guys, that's when you guys were like white hot right then, that first show, first round. It was going crazy. And anyway, we went on that and hung out and just cut from the same cloth. We like, love people, love Jesus, and love talking to people about it. Shot a lot of pheasants. And Dave's gotten into golf, so we played several rounds of golf.

I'm trying to teach you in the art. Has he got into your gray matter? That's what we got. I tried teaching the art of the trash talk. I'm so bad he leaves me alone. Oh, okay. It's the other people he messes with. Yeah, some of your friends.

Yeah, he's trying. The only thing he doesn't make fun of me occasionally, like I was doing a practice swing on a T-box, and I hit the dirt pretty hard, and he's like, you know, 8-1-1, call for a day. Dave Ramsey has the swing. I can see it from 500 yards away, and if you didn't tell me,

I know his swing every time he has a, a unique swing. That's probably not good. That's not good. That's not a compliment. But yeah, but that's okay. That's good. I'm still having fun. And my, I have a, I'm too wired up and too intense a person to play golf. And so I never played until I was 58 years old, seven years ago. Oh, wow. I just picked it up because I'd be that twerp throwing his clubs in the, yeah, it sounds like a pond and all that stuff. So I did, my wife said, we need to do this. And we're always sitting on these super fancy resort things when we're traveling. And it's like having a Ferrari in the driveway and not knowing how to drive.

So you need to learn how to do this, at least not be embarrassed completely. So we started learning to play. And I just said, okay, I'm not going to be that guy. I'm going to vow. I'm just going to be disciplined. And the secret to happiness is low expectations. And that's my golf motto. So I just don't care and I just have fun.

That's why you have to. And Willie's a really good golfer. And the last time we went on the trip, though, there was eight of us and some good golfers on that trip. And some weren't. And, um, we, We make it, yeah. We had a good time.

Yeah, the first time, so when Adam and I, we were together and we were setting up the golf bet. So Adam and I were like, oh, we're going to hustle these guys. So we got, we said, you and Dr. Henry Cloud, that we were going to play y'all, but y'all definitely sniffed. Henry played at SMU with Payne Stewart. Yeah. Oh, wow. So Henry's a good golfer. But they sniffed through that.

They knew they were, you know. But he had messed up knees. And so Willie's line was, I'll take the cripple. messing with him starting to mess with Henry already working on him and then we went so far one of the world's best known psychologists and completely pissed him off and how mad did he get in me on the golf I mean he was never seen Henry that I've known Henry 20 years I've never seen close you realize Willie could take the guy that's written the book about and then Henry Cloud the problem was though he activated and he kicked Willie's butt which was he just

destroyed that's all I was looking for I just wanted a reaction and I wanted to see I like seeing people. No, you wanted to win. No, no, no, no. That's where you miss. It doesn't matter if I win. I want to see them either rise up or just fold up. Yeah, either way is equal joy to me.

It's so fun watching people do that. You see now while we fought every day for about seven years. We had one fight and it lasted seven years. It just would pick up where it left up. The seven-year war. My dad won't. One time pulled over, we were like two miles from the house. We were pretty young.

Two. More than two. Maybe three or four. He was like, get out. Get out. Get out of the car. We were like, what? He's like, walk and gone.

He was took off. Left us in the highway. But back then you could do that. Now everybody's panicking. Dad's line was when you hear the meat popping, boys, that's when the discipline comes in. Meat has had enough, you know, so that's it. So my mom used to say, the worm has turned. I didn't know what that meant, except the beatings were about to begin, right?

And found out later it was Shakespeare. Who knew Mom knew Shakespeare? Well, for my tribe of people, I want to know how you got started doing this. Is that a dumb question? No, it's not a dumb question at all. How do you become the guru? You never got to, yeah. Yeah, I never.

I never got it. I don't know. It can be a very long story, and I don't want to do that. But when I got out of school, Sharon and I were broke. and she, about two weeks after we got married, she remembered she was a Baptist. And we had not, I grew up, hell-raising, beer drinking character,

and so that's who she married. And then she comes in and says, we're going to church. And I said, we ain't doing nothing. You can go to church. It's football Sunday, and I'm going to be watching football and drinking beer is what I'm going to be doing.

So she cried and went off. In Nashville, there's more Baptist than people. So it didn't take her long to find her. tribe. And so she starts going to church and praying her and those baddest people praying for her heathen husband. And so I went to this sales conference and the guy said, if you're going to win at business, you're going to have to meet this guy named Jesus because you will never learn how to treat people until you know with him. And you'll never treat people right. You'll be a taker rather than a giver and everybody can smell a taker a mile away. Wow. And I was, I like this guy. Yeah, it's a good,

It was a good line. So I came home. Me and my bear drinking buddy were at the conference. We go back to the hotel room and got out the Gideon Bible, which is useless because it's blind leading the blind because it was King James.

I mean, it's like Shakespeare and Jesus. There's no way this redneck's getting through this. I'm just saying. So we go back. I told my wife we're going to church, and she's like, who are you, and what did you do with my husband? And I wandered in the back door of church

at 23 years old and met God radically. And I was the dumbest guy there because I didn't know anything. And the preacher would say, and you know when they threw, Joseph's brothers threw him in the hole? And I'm like, nope, don't know Joseph. Don't know the hole.

But I don't like being the dumbest guy in the room. And by midnight, I will know everything about Joseph. And I will stay up until I read it and learn it and read it and pull that. I'm going to take it apart. So that was 40 years ago and 45 years ago almost. And that's been the process. So I'm telling you that because I met God. And then right as I was doing that,

I started buying and selling real estate and I got rich. I had $4 million worth of real estate when I was 26 years old, a million dollar net worth, and then at 1984 I made $250,000 back when that was a lot of money. Were you thinking at that point, boy, this following God thing. Yeah, I'm thinking this Jesus stuff's great. That guy was right. Those bigger people may have something, but no. But I had violated everything in this book about money.

I'd borrow money up to my eyeballs. I was spending everything I make. I was shallow, you know, jaguars and Rolexes and all this crap. And God says, I don't think I can use him in this condition. So we're going to have to do a little work here. Uh-oh. Humility training. Banks called our notes, and we spent the next two and a half years losing everything we own.

And so we were sued. We were foreclosed. And finally at 28 years old, we were bankrupt. And so with a brand-new baby and a toddler and a marriage hanging on by a thread, we got to start over. And so we've got it on the side of, and come in our building, it says, I met God on the way up. I got to know him on the way down. And so when we hit bottom, somebody said there's, Bible says some stuff about money and there's

a guy teaching it named Larry Burkett on Christian Radio. Would you, you know, and I'm like, the Bible talks about money? What? I've got a finance degree. Who would have thought? And so I'm like, okay, I want to know. Because obviously the stuff I learned didn't work. I mean, who taught me to borrow money, my finance professor.

who was broke. What's wrong with that picture? It's like a shop teacher with missing fingers, right? So we get the opportunity to start again and start learning God's ways of handling money and start applying in our lives. And then pastor called up one day and said, hey, there's a guy in my office in foreclosure. Can you help him?

I'm like, yeah, I used to buy them, and then I was one. So, yeah, I can help him. And so I went over and once you do something at church to help somebody, it's like every night you're there after that. Yeah. We suddenly had a financial ministry at the church helping people that were hurting. and a guy on a local radio station, back when talk radio was just getting started, Rush Limbaugh was one year in, 36 years ago, 1992, so whatever that was, 34 years ago.

The station was in bankruptcy, and the guy quit, and one of my buddies said, we ought to go over and do that talk radio show, and I'm like, there ain't any money in radio, and he goes, yeah, but we could get some leads, and I'd written this little book, and he said, you might even sell some of that stupid little book you wrote, and little did he know. We started on that station and it took off. I mean, and we were really bad. I mean, it was like Daryl and his other brother, Daryl, doing talk radio.

It was like, you know, W-W-TN, we're talking Nashville. Y'all call in right now. We'll help you with his money. I mean, it was nasty, but yeah. He has young ones like Zach out there. Just, you know, and, you know, five years later, you know, I had voice coach and cleaned up enough because people in Boston couldn't even understand me. and they wouldn't put me on the radio anywhere because it wasn't credible.

It sounded like I was broadcasting from a double-wide or something. So they are late to that. There's nothing wrong with it. There's nothing wrong with it, but if you want to reach Boston, you know, you're going to have to work on this. Exactly. You got to get better at your craft. So five years later, we're probably on in Monroe, you know. Yeah.

Seven years later, we're probably down here doing that at first of some of those first few events that we did. And then we started doing events and selling books. But it basically started because as my friend Larry Krabb, says, you know, I don't trust a man doesn't walk with a limp. And so God uses wounded healers. And he talks through donkeys. And I signed up. So here I am.

Here I am, Lord, send me. So it spent my whole life now. So now there's a thousand folks at Ramsey doing all kinds of things. And 50,000 churches have now taught 10 million people, Financial Peace University. 48% of the high schools, including your boys. boys have gone through our high school curriculum, six million kids in high school have gone through it. Wow.

And the numbers on the broadcast are just staggering. They're mind-blowing. I can't even get my head around it. But it's just like, you know, God can do anything if you just yield. And, you know, he said, feed my lambs. And so we went with it. We went for it. That's awful.

Don't you think, Dave, it's like, because I relate so much to your story, going through really hard times to learn. I love the message. I wrote it down. that as you now get older and have that chance to look back over the scope of what you just told our audience, that you can really appreciate and see so much more of what God was doing through the process of, you know, instead of just like when you're in the moment, you're just doing it, right? Yeah.

And you're just trying to, one thing leads to the next. But I don't know, when we look back over the scope of how big God is and what he accomplished, it just, I don't know, it's so much sweeter to me. Yeah, when you're in the middle of it, it's, you know, Isaiah, I'm a lot of the, lamp at your feet. So you can see three feet at a time. And then when you look back, because you're old, you got perspective and you start to see the providence and the sovereignty of God that his hand. He really, you know, I kind of thought I had something to do with it and that's laughable. You know, it's like, you know, I work real hard and I'm really good and I improve my craft. And I'm going to add, you know, I'm better now than I was and I'm a better dad now than I was and I'm a better father now than I was and better husband now than I think.

I mean, Sharon, I tell you, we've been married 43 years. Thank God she's not still married to that guy. Yeah. And so, you know, you got to get better. But, you know, it's, our efforts are so multiplied by the great I am. And in a math formula, anytime you multiply something by the infinite, the answer on the other side is infinite. Yeah. Yeah.

Other side of the equal sign. And so it's pretty incredible. It's been a wild ride. And I'm so, I'm about as happy and grateful of guys you'll run into. One of the things you said that I've picked up on for me that's been so profound, and I've taught this to my kids, too, not just about money, but there's a principle that I think is so key that I think you say something like,

don't trade what you want most for what you want right now. And I've told my kids that, like, not just about money, but just about everything, sexuality, everything. Don't trade what you want most for what you can have right now. Like, just that prolonged, delayed gratification is such a rare, that's a rare thing in our culture. That transcends a lot.

Well, I mean, you're exactly right. the ability to delay pleasure is a, it's a sign of emotional and spiritual maturity for that matter. And, but it always pays off because there is no such thing as good microwave barbecue. There's no such thing. You know, you have to cook it. And a long time, tell the dog's in the neighbor's yard of Allen, right? You've got to cook it. And so, that's true.

And, you know, our lives are the same way. You know, like you said, your sexuality, your careers, your, I'm. your ability to do anything, and certainly saving money is a pretty primitive and basic thing on that. Live on less than you make, a concept of Congress can't grasp. And, you know, that's basic stuff, right? And so, but I've made a living with that, just telling people what they already know. And they go, well, I could have sold a million books. I already knew that.

And I'm like, well, you didn't write it down, dude. I mean, right? Yeah, it really is just, I mean, it's super counterculture. I mean, your message is so, like, counter. I often think about this, too. Like, you don't hear, like, they're saying like, oh, the economy's dragging because people aren't spending. Like, we need, you know, we need the holidays so people will spend.

And I'm like, are we supposed to go spend? Are we supposed to save? I mean, even 2008, we're going to, or even after COVID, we're going to stimulate the economy by giving you money to go spend. Right. And it's so bas-acquoise. It's just ridiculous. It's almost like the game is rigged.

It's rigged for you to spend. And it's like right now the big thing is the, you know, the Gen Z, there's a lot of, and the millennials, which are two fabulous generations, by the way. But the, like your boys are just studs, man. And so the, just solid. But everybody's talking about affordability. They can't do anything because of inflation. They can't do anything of that.

They can't do anything because of inflation. House prices. They're boxed out. Well, bullcraft. What happened was this. It's pretty simple. We have the highest credit card debt ever this year. We have the highest car debt ever this year.

20% of the people left a car lot last month took on more than a $1,000 a month car payment. And we have the highest student loan debt. So we got people with $300,000, $150,000 in student loan debt to get a degree in left-handed puppetry, right? And it's just, and you put those three things together. I'm going to pay my whole $30,000 a year. Put that, all that junk in your budget and look and see how much is left, called disposable income, and there's not any. So the affordability crisis is because the big banks and Congress, with, you know, the student loan program, that they continue to talk about how bad it is, but they continue to do it while they're talking about it. And, you know, Biden, you know, got blamed for 9% inflation following COVID, but it really wasn't his fault.

It's just everybody came out of their house like a Baptist looking for a casserole after they were trapped, right? And they just, they went nuts, man. So people went spending and stuff went straight through the roof, you know. And that was supply of demand. And we had it, we shut down the world's largest economy in history. And then we're surprised that when we reopened it, that it took off, you know, well, of course not. That's a basic econ. Yeah.

So anyway, all that to say, the affordability crisis is created by these banks preying on these two generations. And they grew up with a magic wand in their hand that says, I can push an easy button and anything happens. Fast. I can access all of human history knowledge right here. I can push a button. Stuff shows up on my porch. And I keep pushing a button wanting to buy a house, and I can't because I've been trapped by these big banks that have put me so far in debt.

They've been victimized by these stuff that's out of control. So that's what that is. That's what that all comes back to. Don't get me started on the villains in my story. The villains are real. Yeah. You get fired up. Oh, I know.

Well, he'd fire me up. So what do you tell these people and they say, well, I spend it all? I mean, how does this, what is the normal Q&A? How does this work? They'll just call in and say, you know, my wife and I aren't on the same page or I'm in debt and I'm behind on my car payment, what am I going to do? And I'm like, we used to say that, you know, the subtitle of the show was sell the car. Because the answer to every question, sell the car.

Because you've got a $1,000 car payment, dude, and you make $50,000 a year. and you're driving a $70,000 F-150. Well, dumb. That's just dumb. He can't do that. Math doesn't work. I don't care. Well, the finance manager and I prayed together.

Well, he was on crack. I mean, this is crazy. Who makes you that loan? How do you get this loan? And crack is expensive. I was sitting one little couple, and they, church counseling him, and he said, you know, God gave us this car. And I said, absolutely he did not. And he goes, well, how are you so sure?

And I said, because the Bible says, the blessings of the Lord have no sorrow added to them. And your car payment is half of your take-home pay, and you're telling me you can't feed your babies. God did not give you this car. This car will represent sorrow. It's 100% a curse. It was from the other side.

That's where this came from. So you need to sell the car. You mean I need to sell the car? Yes, you need to sell the car. And that's what it sounds like every day. And it's like, you know, so we tell people to get on a budget, get three extra jobs. There's a great place to go when you're broke to work. and, you know, go get, go rake leaves and clean yards.

Which made me think, like, of that verse immediately pot to my head, it's not like you told him to go sell everything he had and follow Jesus. No, I just, just the car. Just the car. Just a lesser car. Have you ever used that example? I'm just asking for the car. I'm not going biblical and say, sell it all.

And follow him. Yeah. And he went away with his head hung low for his position. Oh, yeah. He wasn't willing to do it. And you probably see the same thing happen in your discussion. You can hear because the medium is so, it's one-sided because it's only audio. Now we've got YouTube and other stuff, but it's only audio.

And so everyone listening can hear that they're not going to do it. Oh, yeah. You can hear the way their voice catches and their syntax shifts. And you can tell when somebody's not the life. bulb has not gone on. Or you can go, yeah, that one's got it. They're going to go do it. They're going to charge the gates of hell with a water pistol. They're going to go. They're going to do it, man. And you get them fired up and they're like, yeah. And then they'll call me back years later. And now we take people through a thing called the baby steps to walk through how to get out of debt

and how to build wealth. And now we call them baby steps millionaires because they come in eight, 10, 12 years later, and they're millionaires. Because they got out of debt. The borrower's slave to the lender, and they lived on less than they make, because a foolish man devours all he has, and they rode out a plan, because Jesus said, don't build a tower without first counting the cost, unless you get halfway up, and you're unable to finish, and can't pay your car payment. And, you know, that wasn't Jesus, but that last part was me. Yeah. Well, you're bringing up a lot of childhood memory, just, you know, with my children.

And because we kind of made a deal, and this is my wife's idea. She was like, we'll pay, you know, for your college. If your character is reflecting that, there were some conditions to even that. Well, it was weird that all three of my kids, they were like, well, we want to go to a non-Christian university. And so my wife's like, okay, well, you're paying for it. But it was amazing that they all changed their mind at some point in that process, figuring out how they were going to make that work. But it was the same thing with a car, because I used to tell them, and I've told this to all my kids at least ten times. You know, we first got married, we had one car.

And they always responded the same way. They were like, well, what did you do? And I said, I walked or I got a ride, you know. But they were just like, I mean, how is that even possible? I was like, I tell you what, it made me appreciate when I did have enough money to have two cars. And so if they're, while they were in college, we got each one of my three kids a car at some point. Just because they were walking with Christ, they were working. They were making good grades.

But what shocked me was it wasn't like I went and got a brand new car. I mean, they were all clunkers. But they all had the same response. And I'm like, because they're like, wow, that's quite, I mean, they weren't that excited because it was a clunker. And I thought, look, I'm not here to make your life comfortable. I'm just saying this will be walking, taking the bus, and hitchhiking. and then you learn an appreciation to work hard.

And one day you might can buy yourself a brand new car, but it ain't coming from me. We're going to struggle to get there. We had our kids growing up on commission, not on allowance. Allowing sounded like welfare to me. So you work, you get paid, you don't work, you get paid. And then we told them save money for the first car, and I would match it.

We had 401 Dave. So whatever you save up, I'll match it. Well, that was kind of my point. And I think we help our kids. It's fine to help them, but you're trying to teach them some basic. Because you don't want to be the second magic button, right? Exactly. That's because you're going to create the same thing.

Exactly. And, you know, my job, I kept telling them, Andy Andrews always says this, Hunts with us, he's a buddy of ours. And my job is not to raise great kids. My job is to raise kids that become great adults. Yeah, that's a different process. That's a different mindset. And so, yeah, you're going to learn, you know, like one on lean back.

We finally, after going broke, we finally got a decent car. And one of them lean back, said, we're doing pretty good. I said, we ain't doing nothing. I'm doing pretty good. You're broke. That's the Shaq line. You're broke.

Jack said, when this kid said, we're rich, he said, we ain't rich. I'm rich. You've got nothing. You've got nothing. That's good. I love it. Well, I think there's a, and we were talking about a minute ago, from a biblical perspective, because we kind of referenced the rich young ruler.

And I always thought that, you know, Luke put those stories back to back with the rich young ruler, and you remember having the walking away sad, and then right in the next chapter, we get Zakias, you know, who is also wealthy, we assume, I mean, tax collector, but a pariah, who then, though, has this moment, you know, where he really understands who Jesus is because he comes to his house. And he immediately, without even being prompted, says, I'm going to get four times what some of my dishonest, I mean, I want make things right. And I just, I love that picture of the two. And but Dave, I love it. I think one of the reasons why people can relate is because of your story, because last night, so we had a birthday

celebration for Mom, and Dave came, was able to join us for part of that. It was an honor. Yeah, it was so great. And you met Mom. And so I jokingly said, I said, Mom, you want to tell Dave about some of those 30% interest loans, you know, back in the early days of the business. She said, I don't want to talk about money with him. But you told her, you said, Ms. Kay, I've had higher and worse. And it was just in the moment, I appreciate that so much because I thought to myself, that's why God has blessed you to then impact other people, because you're telling what you've learned from not only your relationship with him, but by the hard knocks, by the humility

training. And the same could be said for our family. I mean, we never imagine having a television show or people love us and all these things that happen. We're just living life. Mom was trying to make things work. Willie and Corey kind of came in and took it to the next level. And none of it was really planned, but it was part of the plan. So I think that's why we relate so much to sort of your approach.

And I love it because it's a humility that goes also with strength and the no bullcrap, you know, which go together. Well, you know, yeah, and the rich young ruler and Zakiya's. And all of that kind of does weave together in a beautiful tapestry because one of the things that happened to me, because of the way I got saved, because of the way I met God, I didn't have to think about giving or being generous because it's really easy to give away other people's money.

So once I met God, it flipped, and the stewardship thing for me was instantaneous. I don't own anything. And once I don't own anything, then I can give away fourfold. But the problem is if you hold on to it, you have to walk away with your head down. But if you go, it's not just a tie, it's not a love offering. It's not a, it's not a generosity or philanthropy. It's just, I don't own it.

So what do you want to do today, God? What are you going to do with this today? But then people misuse that sometimes. We had a guy come into the lobby at the office, and he said, God told me that you were going to give me a new van. and I said, no, he didn't. He said, oh, yeah, he did. And I said, no, he didn't. He goes, what he mean?

I said, well, if he had told you that he was going to give you a new van, there would have been one sitting out there with keys and it had been running when you got here because he would have told me. And he hadn't told me. And so all this is is you're one of these hucksters. And he's like, well, you're a bad start cussing and screaming at me and ran out the door yelling. But, you know, because, hey, it's easy for me.

I don't own it. It's very easy for me to get away other people's money. I love it. Willie Had you said that for and somebody come in and say, you know, God directed me to come. Well, he sent me an email. And for the record, and Phil took this story and somehow made it his own. And I was like, yeah. Here's Phil still in my story.

I was like, somebody sent an email. A lady said, God told me you were going to give me $32,000 to pay my house off. And I said, I didn't email her back to. say, God should have told me and not you. Yeah. So I told dad, so dad's like, here's dad. Yeah, I got a letter the other day. I don't even know what to email it.

I got a letter to this guy and told me the whole story. And he goes, yeah, God didn't tell me. He should have told me. And I'm like, wait a minute, that's my story. Skip the middleman. And he owned it so much that when I heard him tell it, I thought she must have said him a letter and you an email. That's how much.

I thought it was. I thought that was Phil's story. Phil totally stole that story. Oh, that's so funny. I think Phil always just viewed everybody like, well, these are my kids. So that was a reflection of me. Collective story. Yeah.

I own this because I made you. So, yeah. I did notice when we became famous and had money, there was a lot of people that came forth. You found cousins you didn't know you had. Oh, just all of them. And just ways to get. your money. Oh, yeah.

Oh. Yeah. We're a cousin somewhere down the line. So you mentioned Rachel or is that your daughter? Rachel is my middle and she's one of what we call our Ramsey personalities, which is the next generation. So how has that been fun to get to work in family and all that? I mean, just been able to share that.

It has been absolutely wonderful. We studied it a lot because it can be really bad as everyone knows. And so, but Rachel, she's a natural on the stage. on a microphone and on, you know, she's beautiful, so she's on TV and, you know, Today Show and Fox and everything all the time. And so, but she, 15 years old, she was on stage. Wow. She was the, you know, she's a kid.

She came out of dancing poodle. I mean, she's ready to go. And so, you know, train up a child in the way he should go and the old, and the old King James is the way he is bent, where he's designed. And when he's old, he'll not depart from it. Now that obviously references their spiritual, but also references their wiring. Yeah. and how they're put together.

And so we said that this child should be in front of the camera. Yeah. This child should not. Yeah. And so, you know, and so we, you know, we encouraged her that way, but didn't say she had to do it. But she came on. And then we've got, she's had five, four number one bestsellers, I guess, now. Oh, wow.

And her social media footprint is just mammoth is huge. And so she does a great job. And she's a lot nicer, kinder than I am. And so people, they want to get her on the phone. And so she's sweet. And she'll tell them the truth, but she's much sweeter about it. I'm just, I just go straight to it now. I don't have the time.

I've got to get to the next thing. She's the middle one, and we've got six people, five of us total, including me and her, that do the shows and do books. And, you know, you guys were just on, you were just looking at, you said, and you were on Ken Coleman's show the other day, front row seat, which is blown up. It's a long-form interview show, and he's one of our guys. And so it's absolutely mammary. So anyway, we all intermingle and do the show, the main show, the Ramsey show together.

Yeah, which is fun. I mean, that's been probably the best thing about what we do is getting to do, you know, it together. Yeah. You know, with our kids and our grandkids, a lot of people work through different companies and different platforms that we have, which is, you know, very similar. Yeah, and Dave, what do you think about, you just talking about Rachel, made me think about it. We've all worked for this company in different capacities over the years. But even as it comes to money and about this idea of fairness or treating every kid the same, I have six kids.

And so all different types of personalities. Gifts, abilities. And so do you think it's a problem when parents go, well, crap, I did this for this? You know, once you start something out and then it's like you're, they may not even say it's not fair, but you maybe you're guilty that you maybe are thinking, oh, I don't want this to seem, where something can maybe set someone up great to do something, but it could also destroy another. Or open doors for jealousy and all this. Yeah, what's your thoughts on that as far as the idea of fairness?

Well, I mean, we started, of course, when they were being raised. Mom and Daddy were in real estate business, so I grew up on straight commission. So I knew if you work, you get paid. If you don't work, you don't get paid. And if you work more, you get paid more than somebody that doesn't work. So that's not fair. So actually, technically, equal is not fair. Because effort is not the same.

It's not equal. Intellect is not equal. Outcomes produced are not equal. So if you, you know, you're penalizing someone who worked twice and many hours. They're penalizing someone who has produced or chose to study something that gave them a tool in their belt to win versus someone who decided they were going to study something useless. And they got dull tools in their belt. And so equal. So we told our kids fair is where the tilted world and the cotton candy is.

So we don't have fair. He's got the one line. How many of these do you have? It's like a never-in-in-well. He keeps coming up. I'm looking for the cheat sheet. It's not here. All my kids in the moment we get so angry for decisions I'd make based on their personality

like what you're saying. But they've all come back now that they're older now the house and say, I see why you did that. So our kids don't get any pay at our company except for the position that they fill. And if you fill different positions, that position pays more than the other So like Rachel being a Ramsey personality, those guys, the people that are on air and out front for us get paid on their books, on their, you know, we pay them royalties on their books, we pay them for their speaking, we pay them for other influencer things they get and, you know, the stuff, deals like y'all do, we do those same things, endorsement stuff, all that stuff. So if Rachel has that, so the first time we tested the theory to see if it was going to work in adulthood, they're all at Thanksgiving dinner. Rachel's first big book is coming out. I did the first one with her. The second one she did it on her own was her first. That was going to be huge.

And so we're at Thanksgiving dinner, and I said, okay, guys, we don't usually talk business at Thanksgiving dinner, but I want to take a time out here for a second because this is a test for this family to see if this has worked or not. So Rachel is getting ready to have an incredible financial year. And this is your opportunity to decide if you're going to be jealous and titled brats or if you're going to be really happy for your sister. And I got to sound very proud of them.

They were instantaneously high-fiving. Let's lay hands and pray on her. Let's, yes. And we're happy, we're happy. And, you know, so you just, you know, nip the jealousy in the bud before it has time to grow. And go ahead and stomp it out, right? Of course, you did set it up with that. Yeah, the way he positioned it, but, yeah, somebody's got to really be bossy.

There's been a good idea. I'll be a brat. You get to decide which you are. What is you, you know, decide. And so, you know, yeah. And now with the ownership, what we've done is we've transferred 99% of the company now to them. I own 1% and the only voting stock. And so each of them own a third.

So out of the profits of the company, when we distribute, they get equal. Right. But they're also paid for their job. And my oldest daughter doesn't work at the company. So she doesn't get paid by the company. Right, right. Because she doesn't work. She runs our family foundation.

The family foundation pays her. Yeah, right. A regular salary for someone running a foundation that size. Right. Not 20 times more, not 20 times less. She just gets paid for that job. So stay in your role. And you get to decide what your role is.

You can do whatever. And their little brother is now the president of the company. And he runs 80% of it. I run about 20% with him. He and I are working together. every day. And so again, now they've got this thing of he's now their boss. That's a trip.

But they respect him, and he's earned that respect because he's a quality, world-class leader. And so, but like Rachel's role is when she's looking at her brother, she's actually looking at the president of the company that she works for, and when she's inside that building, she better act that way. Hey, we all work for Willie at some point. But what a novel concept. It's like, if you work, you get paid. I think that's what I'm hearing.

Work really hard and you're really good at you. However, you get paid more. And if you don't work, you don't get paid. Is that? I think Paul said that. It reminds me of what Phil used to say he would name off all these isms. He was like, you know, you got feminism and journalism and narcissism. He's like, the only isms that I believe in is baptism.

and capitalism. He said that. Off the top of his head. That's a good one, I will steal that instantly. We just added one. It actually made me go look, ism words up.

And I'm like, have we missed anything here? But you know, I'm not sure. I found it. Actually, I think mom contributed the baptism. He first said capitalism, and she said,

what about baptism? You're right, Ms. Kay. We got to keep that. All right. So we're out of time. man, that was a fast podcast. But obviously we talked to some about money.

I know there's a lot of our listeners out there because we have a lot in those generations we talked to, but they're probably in that struggle that you mentioned. And so they're going to be looking for help. So where can they go to get information from your organization? Where's the best place for them to go? The website's Ramsey Solutions.com. Let me just say that when we started 35 years ago, 36 years ago, I start applying those biblical truths, principles.

If you read Proverbs over and over, you'll have a master's degree in finance. Yeah. And applying, actually doing them in our lives, not just discussing them as theory. As we know, the word is a two-edged sword. I mean, it will cut, and it will do surgery on you, and it will change you and transform you.

And you do not have to stay in the soup just because you found yourself in the soup. Maybe you put yourself in the soup, I did. But you don't have to stay there. God has a plan. It's not to bring you harm, but to bring you hope. And it's real straight. And when you do, this is his love letter to a kid like me.

And when I live this way, it changes everything. I live on less than I make. I give every single week. I'm constantly tithing and giving. And we live on a plan. We're very intentional. We remember he owns it. We're running it.

There's stewardship issue, lordship issue. And when people start doing that, they understand the borrower, slave to the lender. A lot of people know that one. They've lived in it. They live up to their eyeballs in debt and can't breathe. You start getting rid of that junk in your life and getting rid of the death that goes with the junk in your life, and you get a freedom, a sense of power that comes on you. And that's what scripture and that's what God's love will do in these situations.

So, yeah, that's what's really important here. Amen. I love it. Jay's just texted me and said, this guy should really consider a radio and podcast career. He's really good. You could do it. I think it could succeed.

I think your best days are ahead, Dave. You're going to make it, Dave. You're going to make it. All right. We'll see you next time. I'm not ashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast.

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