Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1245 | Jase Finally Gets One of Uncle Si's Old Jokes

Episode Date: January 12, 2026

Jase skips duck season for a few days to go treasure hunting and stumbles into a reminder about how quickly towns—and priorities—can disappear. Uncle Si’s joke resurfaces and Jase finally understands after it took decades to land. The guys pivot into a deeper discussion of wisdom, drawing from Proverbs to argue that wisdom isn’t a list of rules, but the grain God built into creation itself.  In this episode: Genesis 9; Acts 10; Leviticus 18; John 1, verses 1–14; Hebrews 1, verses 1–4; Proverbs 8, verses 1 and 22–31; Matthew 11, verse 19; First Corinthians 1, verse 24; First Corinthians 1, verse 30; Colossians 1, verse 15; Colossians 1, verse 28; Colossians 2, verse 3; Ephesians 2, verses 8–10; First John 1, verses 1–3; First John 2, verse 6; First John 3, verse 5; First John 3, verse 24 Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/at-home-with-phil-robertson/id1835224621 Listen to Not Yet Now with Zach Dasher on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or anywhere you get podcasts. Chapters: 00:00-09:10 Jase hunts with the wrong weapon 09:11-15:00 “Unashamed” gets censored?! 15:01-24:02 The key to understanding the whole Bible 24:03-34:19 Is wisdom a person or an ideal? 34:20-44:48 Jesus as the “firstborn” of creation 44:49-54:24 How to wrap your brain around being forgiven — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashame. If you're watching, you see, Zach, you've got your camo on today. You've been hunting or you've been killing some of those geese in the park? Nope. It's just part of my arsenal of clothing. We call these hunter wannabes.

Now, look, I had no idea you were going to open the podcast that way. because we haven't been communicating. But I actually played the role of Zach yesterday because it's duck season, and I usually go every day of the duck season. And I am not going duck hunting. That's why I've been traveling. And so yesterday, I went treasure hunting in South Arkansas.

And I didn't realize. Instead of duck hunting. I didn't realize what was. going to happen. I mean, I'm out there in a field, and these speckle-belly geese and snow geese, they're all in the field I'm in, and I got the wrong weapon in my hand. They were not scared of me. I don't know if they thought I was a tree or what. They were just in gun range. It sounds like they know the difference between a metal detector and a shotgun. There's a famous story on where I said that. It's

PG-13, Maddie. But for the kids, I'm clarifying that. But so, so, Sye, you know, it's, this is not coarse joking, but it's close. So, Cy's in a boat with Jay Stone and other hunters. I forget who all were in the boat. And Sye had to relieve himself because that's what happens, especially when you're old and you're confined. And you're junk two gallons of tea a day.

That's probably, I buried the lead, now. Good job. And you're drinking all this tea. And so they hadn't shot a dog all morning. None. The water was way up, the exact opposite problem we have than now. And so here comes like a huge bunch of gadwals, 10 or 12. And they just come right in the decoys.

And it's bomb, ba, bomb, bomb, bomb, they rip them. And the whole time, sighs hollering, I got the wrong weapon in my hands, boys, I got the wrong weapon. in my When you said it a minute ago, I thought about that story, but I wasn't bold enough to tell it. Thank you, Joe, for telling me. Well, that's just life, you know. It is.

And it's sad. Circumstances happen. Look, we go to the bathroom. These are things that happen. I'm out in a field yesterday. Guess what? I had to go at some point. I'll leave the details out.

But I was in the middle of nowhere. But what was ironic is these hunters. were hunting right on the other side of the levee of where we were at. And we would see the ducks come in and they, ba, and they, b, b, b, b, b, bum. And I thought, this is so weird that I'm a duck hunter. I'm in a, obviously, a duck hunting paradise because there's gunfire

and there's geese that I would like to eat just right here at me. But I'm not duck hunting. So it did feel weird, Al. It's been crazy. this lack of water. Did you find any treasure? Oh, we found some treasure. Look, we hunted me and the Murray and Randy, which are three of the guys.

You know, we did a show together about treasure hunting, and they get in these group texts, which I normally am not a fan of, but I have a treasure hunting group text, and they were so excited. Look, this place we went. This just shows you about life. You want your life lesson of the day from a biblical standpoint? The place we were hunting used to be a town. An entire town, a bank, a hotel, roads.

Now, nothing. There's no sign of life for as far as you can see in one direction. It's just fields, fields, fields. And it's just crazy how at one time you think, man, I'm the mayor of this town. And one day there's just no town. And so, yeah, we found a lot of Civil War bullets. We found what we call a hotspot. We were mainly doing a reconnaissance, you know.

We got access to all these fields. And we had hunted some parts of the town before. But we found a hot spot about 2 o'clock. And all of a sudden, you know, we were dancing out in the field. Somebody would have driven by old Randy found a silver coin. And just he has a little dance. It's kind of a cross between a moonwalk and some kind of redneck folk dance. But it was just good times.

I mean, the Bible is very clear about comparing the joy of that. And so we found all kind of stuff. Murray found some kind of cannon shot from the Civil War. It looked like an egg. I don't remember the exact because he said that's a, he has all this stuff by name. and boy you would have thought and I was like what's that thing worth because he was going so crazy you know and he's like three dollars probably you know

he said it's a find of a lifetime but then I found a bullet and I was like you know what is it he said I said it's a three ringer I didn't analyze it you know and he's like we've never found a three ringer out here that can't be a three ringer. And I got to look and, you know, got my glasses. I was like, well, he's got two rings. He's like, that's a rare bullet.

He come running. I mean, he's 80 years old. He came running across the tops of the, of the, where they had plowed this field, which was pretty impressive. I mean, it was almost like walking on water for an 80-year-old man. He's like, that's a sharp, that's a rare bullet. We found three or four of them out here. And I said, well, if it's a sharp,

rare you found three or four of them out there and he's like it's a find of a lifetime i said what i said what's this worth he said four dollars he said maybe seven i didn't realize murray had fallen on such hard times that he could say he would never sell it but it just you attach value to it you know but it doesn't matter to him it's like this is so it was it was good times and surreal and then so i came back home late last night I hadn't eaten much all day, so I ate a pot of chili, my wife, cooked for me. And I come to Doug Commander today, and it's like I can't find a parking place. And I thought, what is going on here?

Do you notice this, Maddie? And so I asked somebody, I said, what is going on here with all the people? And they said, I think everybody showed up for work. Everybody showed up for work. Is that not common or what? Yeah, I thought, you know, and then I've been on this poetry side of, you know, the Bible and wisdom literature. I've been studying it. And so I was like trying to think of a poem because it's like the new year.

And everyone is, you know, they've been filled with this renewed vision and inspiration and all the things that they couldn't get done. And now they just showed up. And boy, I can't even get through a hall. without having five conversations. And somebody said my hat was dirty. And I was like, why would you point that out? You know, they're like, well, I know you were fixed to podcast, so you might want to.

So I don't know. I'm wearing a dirty hat, I guess. Tank and I have never noticed, Jay. I never know. There's no judgment over here. I spend time in the outdoors, you know. It might get some debris and dirt on it. I take that as a pride of life, you know.

That's part of it. So we were raised by a man who never had a clean shirt. So never, never. So I said all that story to say that I'm not duck hunting right now because I have guests coming in in two days. And we have a report that we have now ducks on our property, even though we have very little water. Now, it's only about 20, but we have 20. So you're saving those for your guests. I'm saving them for the guests.

So I'm excited. I've got back-to-back guests coming in this weekend, so we're saving the hole. We're protecting those 20 ducks. I love it. Will you all ready to get into first, John? I'm ready. Jayce is trying to detour out.

Apparently, he wants to go to a little place called Proverbs 8. Well, I do, and I think I set this up on the last podcast. And the reason I was late today for the podcast, we're starting much later than we should, is because we had the cleaning ladies come in at our place because we've hosted parties and I missy needed some help. And look, I clean up too. There's, I pitch in.

But they asked me what we were fixed to talk about today in my podcast. So that made me. Did you tell them you have no idea? Oh, no. I said, well. If anybody asked me that, I would say, I don't know. We're going to find out what rabbit. Oh, Jason is going down and we're just,

Zach and I are going to follow him in. Speaking of rabbit holes, we started a Instagram page called Rabbit Holes, which has got Jase's rabbit holes on his channel. And apparently the powers that be at Meta have taken

the channel down. We don't know why. So, not sure what happened there, but they have come in. We've been censored? We've been censored. Not sure if it was intentional. We're doing a deep dive. But if you used to go to the rabbit hole Instagram channel to see the little clips of what we do here on the podcast, you're

just going to have to come to the podcast now to get your rabbit hole until we figure out what happened with Instagram. I can actually answer that dilemma for you. What is it? We have not discussed this. I have a history of censorship of all social media outlets. You censor them or they censor you? They censor me. And I found two principles that led to said censorship. And I didn't try the Phil Robertson approach, which he, you know, he made a speech. He challenged some of the owners of these social media companies for a sparring session,

which I don't think they took him up on. He changed the name from Zuckerberg to Zuckerberg. Yeah. So I noticed the two things that they don't like is hunting or shooting any kind of animal that you're going to eat. Even though they're, from what I gathered, for eating the consumption of said animals, they just don't want to see the process. And any kind of Bible discussion, those were the two things that I was censored over and over again. Which is the two things you talk about. So, yeah, you've got a dilemma.

You know, you could talk about treasure hunting. Maybe that's your way if you really want to get viral. You've got to talk about treasure hunting. But they're not going to let the other stuff out, apparently, right? I did try to segue that angle on the show into treasures come in different forms. And some of them are the beautiful gifts that God put in our hands to be consumed. Genesis chapter 9. This is not like I came up with.

with it. They're basically censoring the Bible. Read Genesis 9, Acts 10, Leviticus 18. These are why that we get to partake in tasty animals. It was

his idea. It was not ours. So, you know, that's neither here nor there. Well, I'll report back when I find out what the issue was. I don't want to say they're censoring you yet, but it could be that you are

yet once again a victim of censorship will find out they shut the channel down they also shut down another channel we had to it and we don't know why yeah so we're going to we're looking into it you know it's just a terrible mistake we're so sorry then you know then they do it again again i equate that censorship uh with the same as being persecuted and uh having bad things happen for doing something right and it just kind of comes comes with that is a perfect lead-in to where I want to go with Proverbs. I just have this, you know, we're reading, we're in 1-John, and I've already said this is, tricky is not a good word, but it's a tricky book. And I told you what the theologian said about finding the Lord in the book of John, and then he read First John and thought, I'm not sure I'm going to make it. And I don't know if we really solved that riddle, but there are things.

that are stated here in 1 John that I feel like it's hard to wrap your head around. And I think part of... No, I'll tell you this, Jay, in just one chapter of study, I mean, I've obviously been reading and looking at the whole book, but I've only done the deep dive in the first, you know, chapter and then the couple of verses in chapter two. And I have done more Greek word searches and studies than I've done in anything we've done, and anything we've done so far. I think that's really good.

The reason I brought up the cleaning ladies is because they asked me what I was going to talk about. And so I started into it, which led to a question by one of the girls that said, what do you think the key to study of the Bible is? And I keep getting that question. And I said, this time, instead of just answering, I was like, well, what do you mean by that?

What's your motive behind that question? And she's like, well, I just have a hard time. putting it all together from start to finish. And she meant Genesis to Revelation, which is why I'm bringing this up, because here, let's just say this is the same John who wrote John, and we talked about that in the previous podcast. I mean, it's anonymous, but it just seems like it's the same guy

because he started John with, in the beginning was the word, words with God, word was God, word became flesh, verse 14. And then here it's like that which was from the beginning in 1st John. But the key connection here is he's going back to the beginning and showing the word of life, as he points out in 1st John 1st 1st. 1st.1 here, as being revealed, appearing, showing himself. And so in my answer to the girls, I said, look, one of the keys is understanding that Jesus, Jesus is weaved from Genesis to Revelation.

And this is the reason for me saying that, that what I just quoted in John 1 and 1st John 1, he's going back to the beginning, and he's talking about this Word of Life. And you throw in the other verses that we frequently mention about this is how God is speaking to humanity by becoming a human. I think Hebrews 1 through 4.

In the past, he spoke in various ways and through prophets, but now he speaks to us through his son. So he embodies the logos, the logic of God, which is what that word means. So the reason Proverbs came up, it's because Al like you, and the other reason that I gave to the women about the key to understand the Bible,

which is one is look through in Christ, what that means. The Bible written with Jesus as the centerpiece from Genesis to Revelation and how to understand God. But the other thing is this language barrier. And you take, like, wisdom. In English, which is what, would you say,

that's what Proverbs is about? wisdom. And in Proverbs 8, there is a, and we're going to read it, there's this, I don't even know how to describe it, there's this speech. Personification. Yeah, there's a, but it's a speech. So like, take Hebrews 1 through 9, it's a series of speeches about wisdom, but wisdom is kind of viewed as a person.

Right. And, you know, I believe it's a. a metaphor, and I think most scholars who kind of think the way I do, it is a metaphor like in creation, wisdom was like this spoken in the first person as a creating agent, which becomes, and here's the key line that I want to put out there, a blueprint for how humans should operate. But it's not, okay, one, two, three, four. This was my mistake in Hebrews. I read Hebrews for the first 20 years of my faith, thinking, okay, I need to get these things in my life. But a lot of the sayings are like riddles. After the speeches in Hebrews, I mean, in Proverbs 1 through 9,

well, then 10 through 30 are just these little sayings. Riddles, just kind of facts. Like, it's not necessarily saying do this and this will happen. It's just like, this is what happens. This is the fabric of society. And it's things like integrity and justice. There's kind of a moral component that is behind all of it. But it's also about hard work and justice and these types of things and overcoming adversity. So I said all that to say it's not so much.

what to think, but how to think and how to view life. And you see all this as evidence that there is a God creating a universe in wisdom, creating the heaven and the earth, and then having a blueprint that you actually see in the creation process. That's factual. It makes Proverbs incredible. And then you get to Proverbs 31, and there's this analogy, another speech, about a wife of noble character, and it eerily images not only a wife that's just fantastic, but perhaps,

you know, even the bride of Christ and all this, and it's not just morality in there. It's just the way they work and the way they think and the way they handle what life brings them. So, having said all that, I went to Proverbs because to me the difficult transition, the hard part to wrap your head around in 1 John 1.1 in this first section, this first paragraph, prologue, or however you want to define it, is when he says we proclaim to you in verse 3 what we have seen and heard. And they were in the presence of this man called Jesus who was with God and was God in the beginning. And it's more that he just,

had a human life. He is the life of life becoming a human life, which is hard to wrap your head around. They heard him, they saw him, they touched him, they looked at him, they contemplated, they saw this blueprint of wisdom in it, what he said, where he went. And they basically, Jason, misunderstood him the whole time they were with it. I mean, you know what I'm saying? They were like bewildered the whole time they were with it. Exactly. And the connection to wisdom, you remember even Jesus' childhood? What are the only verses that discuss

his childhood? And it brings up this idea of wisdom. It says he grew in wisdom. Well, I'm viewing wisdom, based on what we're going to read in Proverbs 8, as a blueprint to creation itself. And even another way to look at it,

it's kind of like the grain to use a woodworking illustration. You know, the grain of wood, because I've always a woodworker, what duck calls. And you try to go against the grain and guess what happens? Problems. And so I think you see that in the book of Proverbs and wisdom. And then you see Jesus, who shows the ultimate heart, character, wisdom of God. So think about all the verses that we can read later about, in speaking of a treasure hunting illustration, what's the one that says, is that Colossians,

in Christ are all the hidden treasures of wisdom. I'll look that up somewhere. I have it written down. And I was also thinking of James I was also thinking of James 1 and James 3. You know, James brings up in his first chapter this concept of godly wisdom. And then he gets to chapter 3 and he makes the comparison of earthly wisdom versus Godly wisdom. So to your point, he made the exact same argument that Paul made in Colossum. Well, here's some verses. First Corinthians, no, First Corinthians, one, the whole thing's about

wisdom. But First Corinthians 1.30, it is because of Him that you're in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God. First Corinthians 124, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Colossians 2.3, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Even in Matthew 1119, when, which is a very good passage to read, but he concludes this when he said, remember John the Baptist, y'all view him, you know, a certain way based on the way he looks and acts. And then you accuse me, Jesus, of being a glutton and a drunkard, because I hang out

with tax collectors and sinners, but then he makes this statement, wisdom is proved right by her actions. That verse is where I want to go, that little statement. Because after John says this in 1st John 1 through 3, he then says so that you also may have fellowship with us. And then this phrase, and our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ. So we're being invited into a fellowship with the eternal God and His complexity in being Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And as you said on the previous podcast, that word coined.

Nea, it's more than just, you know, we're sitting around eating cake and having coffee. This is a partnership. This is a full partnership. This is, I mean, this is like a marriage fellowship. It's way deeper than our word for fellowship. And wisdom is involved because it's linked to the beginning, just like Jesus. And so, I do think it's a metaphor, but I'll read the text. This is Proverbs 8.

And the key verses, I can find my glasses. The key verses I want to read, and maybe I'll read those first, is Proverbs 8, 22. The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works, and there's two other alternate interpretations here. Or the way the Lord possessed me at the beginning of his work. Or the Lord brought me forth at the beginning of his work. work. So the concepts I'm trying to highlight here are wisdom is being viewed as being brought forth from the beginning. It's part of the beginning. It's part of his work. Before his deeds of old, I was formed long, long ages ago at the very beginning when the world came to be. And I want to skip

down to 30 and 31. I was constantly at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence, rejoicing in the whole world and delighting in mankind or the human race. And that's why I came up, and I didn't come up with this on my own, just from researching and studying with this. I kept hearing this blueprint for humanity. and wisdom. So if you go back to the beginning of of Proverbs chapter 8 and verse 1, it starts, does not wisdom call out, does not understanding raise her voice

at the highest point along the way where the paths meets, she takes her stand beside the gate into the city at the entrance. She cries out. I raise my voice to all mankind. You see where I'm going with this? And so what I concluded is, is that yes, you know, it's a metaphor, but then when you start looking at all the different proverbs and how it works in these speeches, and these just life lessons and knowledge and how to think about life, and I think that's why the diversity is there, because you don't

know what life's going to throw at you. So it kind of helps you in how to think from a place of integrity that was God designed for us to function. as his image bears. And now we're back on that. And so basically what I concluded is, you know, when this thing began, you have two aspects of work and two aspects of rest. But each has a work involved. And I mentioned that on the last podcast.

When he rested Adam in the garden, it was to work and reflect in this wisdom that was the blueprint of creation. itself. Now obviously the reason I brought up all the verses about Jesus is because I believe, like everything else that happened, Jesus became the fulfillment of that wisdom in a bodily form. So the reason this is controversial because some people link this to Jesus right off the bat here in Proverbs 8 and they're like, oh, well, Jesus was created. And there's different religious groups that try to make that point here. And I think they missed the point there.

Yeah, I did. You were joking with me before the podcast started saying I was the theology police. I think you were joking, maybe you weren't. I was joking, but not really. Go ahead. But I mean, we need that police for it. Yeah, well, and that was an ancient heresy that really emerged early in kind of the church history that certain folks thought, you really,

you read a passage that Jesus is the firstborn of creation. And so, yeah, you think, man, was Jesus created? And I think that it's hard to really understand those concepts about the nature of Christ. If you don't have the full picture of the story of the Bible in mind, particularly the story that we are part of a new creation. And so when the Bible talks about Jesus being, you know, the firstborn of creation, it's, that's, that is not that the being of Jesus or the son, rather, that the son himself was created. What, what that's indicative of is that Christ, and Bill Smith

are one of our former mentors who, you know, went on to be with the Lord, he died a few years back, but one thing that he would always say that I thought was so helpful, when you start talking about Jesus, you got to remember, Jesus is the incarnation of the sun. So there's no Jesus in the Old Testament. There's the Son in the Old Testament. Jesus was born in a manger. Jesus was the one who was fully man, fully God. Jesus was the incarnation of the Son.

And so that's important to remember because when you think about in that way, when we talk about the son of the Old Testament, we're talking about the second member of the Trinity. When we talk about Jesus in the New Testament, we're talking about how that second member incarnates and becomes a man. He puts on human flesh. He becomes the creation itself. And the reason why he does that is that he has to fulfill what Adam failed to do in the garden.

So you mentioned that Adam was put in the garden to rest, but that word rest is more indicative of to work it, to cultivate it, to expand it. kind of work in imaging. That's why I brought this up. And look, Zach, we were tracking on this. Because I wanted to bring up that, Colossians, one, because when it says he is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. And then later he also says he's the firstborn from among the dead. Well, he wasn't the first guy that came back from the dead, but he was the first born from

among the dead with this new body representing that new creation that we all will experience with our new bodies. But also, I think this wisdom was made known with him being the first human to get it all right as far as the character and wisdom of God. Because he says that, and then eerily those two verses that I referenced before we started with this, that's in Colossians 1.4. 15. Talking about why he's supreme. But then when he gets to chapter, at the end of chapter 1 in verse 28 of Colossians, he launches into this wisdom. He said, we proclaim, which was the mystery

being revealed, that Christ is in you, which is first John's going to tap into, we proclaim him, this is Galosians 128, admonishing and teaching everyone with what? With all, wisdom, which is that lady wisdom, that metaphor that Proverbs 8 is viewing the fabric that this in the beginning our creation was formed in, he then brings that up. And then that leads to Colossians 2 with in verse 3 when he says, in Christ, all the, are hidden, all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments,

which is why in 1st John, I pointed out that one of the reasons he said he was writing this is in chapter 2. In verse 26, I'm writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. And so that's why I wanted to make the connection, and I also wanted to try to destroy this idea that on one side,

the bad work is when humans say, oh, I want to take possession of God's creation and do what I will, which is what happened with the fruit, instead of allowing what you're supposed to be doing and work in the garden and then trusting God on the idea of good and evil or wisdom. And you trying to work for yourself to be, validated and glorified, which is, we all agree is wrong. And so that's why you have passages like

Ephesians 2 that says, we're saved by the grace of God. And we realize it was a gift from God. So, and not by works so that no one can boast. But then it says, but we're created to do good works from when? Created in my, in God's mind, before the creation of the work. world. So it's like you have, it's two different works. It's God's plan for humans, what they're supposed to model and reflect, and you have man's idea of what that's supposed to look like. That's all I'm trying to say. This fellowship with him is having him at the control center, but it's what we're called to be. It's how we are to think, not necessarily like, oh, I got this little compartment. I checked all the boxes

and I'm in and now I just sit around and wait and become lazy, which proverb says, it's not very wise. And I love the way, Jay's that you, one thing that intrigued me about when you were mentioned in Proverbs 8 and I took a hard look at it is that you

look at the guys that wrote it. I read Psalm 19 as well in the last podcast David's words, which were about creation and the wisdom of God similar to what Solomon, who's his son does here in Proverbs. But one thing is I love about it, and we're heading there in the text in First John,

is that these were flawed men, but I love the point you're making that the wisdom of God was still there and their hearts were still there. I mean, David, of course, had terrible flaws. I mean, it's wrecked his whole family over bad decisions and making terrible mistakes. But in the end, he confessed that he was a sinner and he was weak and he made terrible mistakes and he still loved God. And it worked out for David, even though he had a lot of consequences. And Solomon was the same way. I mean, you read proverbs and you think, man, what a wise guy. And you read Ecclesiastes. And you're like, what happened to that guy?

Well, I was going to bring that up, Al. Because that'll be another rabbit hole coming when we get to ecclesiastes because once again, it's lost in translation. Because our word for whatever that Hebrew word is, I forgot it off the top of my head. But we translate it meaningless, you know. Yeah. Life, everything's meaning. Everything. Well, that connotates something different.

And I've done a rabbit hole and what that means. And I mean, there's different words you could use. But I think from the scholars that I respect, it's more like smoke. It's a word for smoke. And you think, smoke's real. You see it. Yeah. But when you try to grab it, it, you, you know,

what happened? It just, where'd it go? And that's more of the idea because, yes, you have Proverbs. It's like, well, that'll do it. Follow all these things, and you got it. Not realizing it's more about how to think when these things come, but then you get to Ecclesiastes and it's like, well, what happens if you do all these things in Proverbs,

the wise decisions, and it still goes bad, which is a possibility. Well, then you have Ecclesiastes, We kind of lose a little bit of it because I think the gospel-centered movement that has been prominent, at least in the last 25 years, has pushed rightly so against legalism, which we all came out of legalism too. So that's this like, I mean, I do think probably the church was in a historical place of maybe very legalistic understanding. So the gospel center movement pushes back against legalism, which is to say you earn your way. And so then we moved in the grace movement, which is, no, it's God's the one that accomplishes it. It's not by works, we're saved, but by faith, you know, through grace.

And, but the problem is when we say that, we sometimes, I think what's happened is we've, we've taken it and we've just so, yeah, the works don't matter at all, but clearly you were put in the garden to work. So it's not really a full picture of it. And I think what happened is what we ended up making all the emphasis of our discussions in the church. And this is cross-denomination. I mean, this is Southern Baptist, Church of Christ. Oh, you're right. Yeah.

This is the argument. American religion. The Western Church is focused on only justification when it comes to, when we're talking about salvation. When that's not really the full picture of what's going on here. So when Christ becomes a firstborn of creation, what that ultimately means, I started to say this earlier, is that it is him, we would say Christ. fulfilled it. Fulfilled what? He fulfilled what the first priest was supposed to do. Who was the first

priest? Adam. What was Adam supposed to do? Be fruitful, multiply, and cultivate the earth and have dominion ever. He was to take the first temple, which was the garden, and to expand the first temple across the entire cosmos. That was his job. That's what he failed in. What did Israel fail? in. They failed to take the temple and to expand it. This is over and over and over again in the Old Testament scriptures. This was the point of humanity to take and to make the entire cosmos the dwelling place of God. And we failed at that. Adam failed, Israel failed. Jesus shows up on the scene. And what Jesus actually accomplishes is he is the one that is going to do that. That is what the Apostle Paul is talking about in Ephesians when he says that Christ,

is the cornerstone foundation of the temple, and we are living stones growing into the Holy Temple, right? That's the language, that that temple is expanding across the entire globe, to the point when you get to the end of the Bible, Revelation 21, and John the revelators looking around, he's like, I didn't see a new temple in the new city, because the Lamb himself is the temple. The Son of God is the temple.

And so that's the picture, I think, when you get into the controversy or was Jesus created, no, he wasn't created. Right. Or the son. The son was not created. But when the Bible talks about him being the first born of creation, he is the one who is inaugurating the new heavens and the new earth. He's the one that's doing that. And then we're coming along under him as his vice regents to make that happen and to expand that under his rule and under his reign.

Right. Well said. And what's embarrassing and sad is that we had to waste 10 minutes. talking about that because really my whole point is since we're so focused on that, you characterize that accurately. We're missing all the good news of what First John is talking about and what we get to participate in and what we get to do and work in in our own life and how really smart we become. And I think the illustration that made that light switch come on to me, was that Colossians 2-3? Because, you know, even to use that illustration

about Murray, Murray loves to find, you know, bullets. That's what he's all about. And every time I go with him, we're going to go somewhere where we might find some bullets because he's just, that's what he's into. But he's missing, you know, I like finding a big silver coin here. And I'm like, if I keep running with Murray, letting him make the decision every time, well, that's all we're going to his bullets. I'm like, okay, it's great, you know, wonderful. And I think we do the same thing if you're just focused on that justification. That's why he said, in Christ, are all these hidden treasures of wisdom and knowledge. And so my whole point is, you say, well, why are we going through all this? Because when you read a verse like, to get back to that illustration about,

I found Jesus in the book of John, I read the first John, and I thought, oh, I don't know if I'm going to make it. So I'm going to bring up one of these passages. to show you how this, you shouldn't be fearful of it. And this is 1 John 2 in verse 6. It's a simple sentence. Sounds great. It says, whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. Ooh, that's going to be difficult.

You see my point? Just to stand along verse. I mean, if you think about the whole, First John, the whole book, is centered on the incarnation of Christ. And, I mean, it's repeatedly talked about his incarnation that Christ comes in the body. And I think where the rub gets on this whole deal, we all struggle with it. And I fall in and out of this, and I walk with him. But the lie that I've been told is that eternal life is something that's beyond. the grave.

Eternal life is more of that quantity of existence. I get to live forever, never, never. When what you're talking about is, no, it's an integrated life with Christ. It's an immersion in Christ. And so when you ask questions like that, you remember the question that if you've ever been in youth ministry, they all ask it, how far is too far? Like when you're talking about, like, how far can I go with my girlfriend or how far can I go with my boyfriend.

Can I, you know, is, you know, can we make out? You know, obviously, you know, certain things are sexually simple. But what about this kissing? What about holding hands? You know, and how far is too far? How many beers can I have before it's too many? Like, can you get a buzz? Can you get drunk?

Wait, wait, where's the line? And that's the problem. If you approach this with justification as your starting point and your ending point, then you're going to ask those kind of questions. How far is too far? Because what you're actually saying is, how much can I keep for myself? That's what you're asking.

Well, now we're back into that wisdom that came from the beginning that was shown in the garden. And so I want to show another verse, which I would say is the answer to that 1st John 26th. This is 1st John 35. Now, we'll get into this in detail,

just trying to get you to get the concept. So here it says, but you know that he appeared, which is a link verse to 1 John 1 and verse 2, that life appeared, he appeared so that he might take away our sins. Now look at this next little sentence. And in him, which is going back to 1st John 2.6, whoever claims to live in him, in him is no sin. In him is no sin. Now, I get it. We have trouble in our lack of wisdom in understanding that concept and just saying, okay, so if you're in him, there's no sin.

It's been done away with. It's gone. But we as humans, we just, we have trouble with wrapping our heads around that. And then we're disqualified from saying, well, I can't walk as Jesus did because I got all these sins. It's like, well, you're in him and there is no sin. You're like, well, I know that's what it says, but I have sin. Well, maybe there's something wrong with the way you're trying to wrap your head and how you're thinking about this.

It's gone. He took it away. He remembers it no more. So you see where I'm getting at this on how you think, rather than what to think, how you think is important. And you say, well, I'm just never going to be able to be able to. do that. Well, then he gets to, and this will be the last one on this little rabbit hole, 1 John 3, 24, those who obey his commands. Now listen to this. Live in him. We're back to this,

which what I told those cleaning ladies this morning is the whole key to understanding the Bible from cover to cover, cover to cover. In Christ, what does that mean? How you think about that. and this is how we know that he lives in us. We know it by the Spirit He gave us. Well, now we have the other part of the Godhead that up until this point we haven't even mentioned the Holy Spirit dwelling in us to give us the power to know how to think

about these difficult things. But the bottom line is, once you kind of start meditating on this, it's amazing how you're so thrilled about what God has done where you literally get up every day, not just Sunday, and start trying to be Jesus in this world. Just because that's just what it says, this is who I am. And the wisdom that comes along with that will help you to do it.

And God is empowering you through His Spirit, who is now in you. I think it's a good rabbit hole to wrap your head around. And we'll even get there, in that paraclitus, as you remember from when we did John 14, 15, 16, the advocate, the helper, Jesus telling his disciples about the Holy Spirit, is the same word that John used in 1st John 2,

talking about Jesus being our defense attorney. Which is the same word that he used for the Holy Spirit that we have, which his heart, once again, is going to require some wisdom. Because wisdom is not just understanding, it's skill, it's talent, it's all these things that are blueprint for success that God designed the whole earth and for humans to aspire and that you can't run from because look even people who don't believe there is a God

if you read these proverbs and I had a bunch of them I wanted to read but we ran out of time they'll agree with it they're like it's not like because it's not like do this it's just like if you do this this is going to happen and if you don't do this this this is not going to I mean, it's just facts of life that we take for granted that are woven into societies and on earth in human relationships. And I do like that concept that it's always been there. And that's the beauty of it. And it's always been there for people to either believe in or not believe in. And so that's the choice.

And that's the razor wire here that John is walking on. You make the choice to believe or not. So we'll continue to pursue next time on Unilegedy. shame. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.