Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1247 | Jase Admits How an Awkward Auction Turned Into a Life-Changing Coincidence

Episode Date: January 14, 2026

Jase shares some of the most dangerous moments he’s witnessed in the woods, explaining why hunting safety has become non-negotiable after too many close calls that nearly cost lives. He demonstrates how getting pressured into an awkward auction led to a chain of events that convinced him coincidences aren’t real. The guys turn toward the difference between pain that merely hurts and pain that actually changes you, drawing on real experiences of risk, loss, and growth. The guys wrestle with why avoiding pain often leads to worse outcomes and how joy is often forged on the other side of endurance rather than comfort. In this episode: James 1, verse 2; First Peter 1, verses 6–8; John 15, verse 11; John 16, verse 24; John 17, verse 13; James 1, verses 13–15; Proverbs 13, verse 14; Proverbs 12, verse 28; Romans 8, verses 35–39 Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/at-home-with-phil-robertson/id1835224621 Listen to Not Yet Now with Zach Dasher on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or anywhere you get podcasts. Chapters: 00:00-08:40 Jase gets caught up in an auction 08:41-18:13 How to find “pure joy” in suffering 18:14-28:54 There’s NO advantage to sin 28:55-36:23 Why self medication never works 36:24-46:33 What’s the “crown” of life? 46:33-55:00 Tried, tempted, and staying true — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So welcome back to Unashamed for the second Monday in a row on our recording schedule. We say days, don't pay any attention because these things come out in different days to you guys listening. But we have a birthday on the Unashamed panel to celebrate. Last week, it was me, 61. Today, it's Zach. Zach, happy birthday. Good to be here.

guys thank you all for having me uh do you mind telling us how old you are are you one of those people that doesn't like to talk sub 50 i'm sub 50 still in the 40s so 50 that's the new category sub 50 boys he's just reminding you jays that he's younger than you're gonna have by and i'm coming in town in two weeks what do you want for your birthday jay does that well i want cousin jace to take me to duck hunting so he's uh it's an official ass right here on unashamed jays the pressure zone. What do you say? I've had guests for the last few days. I'm not a guest. I'm family. There's a difference. There's no expectation.

You're going to have to do something about that face because you're bright. You spend a lot of times, as my dad would say, you spend a lot of time indoors staring at computer screens and it's made your face bright white white out than normal and i want if you're listening and this is jace this is his love language i asked you i said i'm gonna come duck hunting when i come in town so hey as long as you don't shoot over my head which i've never done but you have to go through the roasting and the it's a humbling process to to get in the blind yes i'm i'm in the humiliation phase right now it's right well it's a safety issue i mean like i I've taken guests seemingly all year.

And like we've had moments this year where I had to look over at our guest and say, you see that red on your gun, you never wanted in that position to your fix to shoot. I just noticed it. So that's kind of sobering because people just don't, they get distracted, they're caught up and you were hunting out here. It's a safety issues act. So I'll give you the speech even though you're my... Well, we had the...

A couple of years ago, we had the guy on our podcast that had his leg shot off, literally, from a duck hunting ice. I mean, you know, you got loaded guns in a blind with a bunch of people. It's dangerous when you go as much as I do. So I had one of my friends in this weekend,

military guy, and I met him at a... Chad Robeshow event, which I didn't know all the details, that he was invited by Robeshoe's son. Yeah. And he was giving away a fishing trip. He got caught up in the emotion here. We're sharing Jesus. I spoke, a couple other guys spoke.

And, you know, you assume, since this is kind of a Jesus-based thing, and we're helping military guys, and we're trying to not only help them overcome PTSD, but we got the greatest counselor in the world that God's offering via the Holy Ghost. Spirit in Jesus. And at the end, he gave away a fishing trip. He guides fishing trips in Florida. And I thought, well, this is finally something. Because these auction things to help, they give away all kind of stuff.

Well, this one, nobody would bid on it. And I thought, the guy's going to take you fishing. He's a military guy. Let's get the bidding started. Of course, you forget, I'm the one that got it started, But then every time someone else would bid on it, everybody's looking at me. And I thought, I leaned over and told Missy, I said, I'm fixed to buy this fishing trip because it's just out of the pressure.

And so I did. And so he gave me his contact information. And, you know, he said, we'll have to line up the fishing trip. Yeah. Okay, sounds great. Well, about three or four days later, he sends me a text. And he said, well, I think I'm ready. And I was like, I've got to get my schedule line.

out and he was like no I'm ready to give my life to the Lord I was like oh you're not in the lord I mean it's kind of shocked me yeah and so it began a Bible study and he got invited he came he wanted to do something nice and I happen to buy it and you know I just don't the longer I'm in the faith the less I believe in coincidences and so he when I said I said well come up because he said, I've been studying what he talked about in your speech. And because I made the point like I always do in my speeches, I'm like, go home, read the book of John, see who Jesus is. Well, you know, I do so many speeches.

You forget that there's some people out there listening. They go do it. If they go read the book of John, see who Jesus is, and then they send you a random text saying, hey, I'm ready. And so I'm like, well, come on over, which he's in North Florida. And I took that to me, we'll work out the schedule later, but however long it takes to drive from Florida. Six hours, Jay, is that doing it?

Six hours later, he pulled up in my yard with a whole throng of people, his family, his kids, the preacher that the church he's been going to, that he said, I feel so bad because he's been trying to tell me this for years. And so I wind up baptizing him, and we've just become great friends and kind of disciple, partner. and studying, and so I took him duck hunting. And unfortunately, in that time, I guess that's been two years ago when that happened. And in the interim of that, because of you, he, you introduced him to me.

And so he and his wife were in a marriage group over there. And he asked if Lisa and I would, because we, you know, Gulf Shores is only just an hour from Penskela. Yeah. And as we'd come over and share with this group on that, which we did. And it was fantastic. I mean, not just, just time, he and his wife, but also the whole group. And so we, you know, we got in a relationship now.

So we talk, you know, and our thing is totally different from what you and he talk about. So, and then he was here yesterday. And you happened to be preaching yesterday. I had no idea, because he said, I want to come visit WFAR because I feel like it's my church. Away from home. Yeah, away from home. And so he was so excited to come. and I wound up, we went hunting yesterday afternoon

because he kept me up all night asking me Bible questions, which I'll bring some of that. He had some really good questions. But what I was going to say, and Al, you happened to be preaching on James One talking about trials. Again, not a coincidence.

Not a coincidence. Because he said, well, you didn't tell me out, your brother was preaching. I said, I had no idea of his preaching. I didn't even know he was here. And so he got diagnosed with kind of a rare disease that there's no really cure for, or they don't even know how to manage it.

Very few people have it. And his attitude toward it was incredible. It's amazing. And he's like, well, because we're talking about the sort of thing that he spent his whole life and career doing. And trust me, when I tell you this, he's one of the tip of the spear kind of guys

in our country that, you know, I mean. Oh, he's a special force of type. This guy's an operator. If he walked in right now, you'd say, not going to mess with him. him. That's right. And the thing about it is, though, he, so we're talking about a complete life change because of what he's dealing with. And, you know, he and I communicate just like you guys do. So I'm praying for him all the time just to endure through this trial. And then he's, and I look

down here, I have no idea he's here. And after I preached this sermon, which I wrestled with for two weeks, because it's such a, it's such a, man, a devastating text to me, you know, just in the content. And you're not going to say this out. It was. absolutely fantastic. I encourage people to go find that and listen to it. It was fantastic. It's WFR Church.org is where you can find it. We're going to talk a little bit about it. But it's a, James, you know, is really interesting because he, we're studying First John in our Bible study, which is one of the last books probably written in the New Testament, right along with Revelation. James is one of the first books. So this is very early. James is an early leader in the

church. You read about him in Acts 15. He's Jesus's half-brother, we think. And so obviously, he's embedded there. And so the church is going through all this stuff. And then he starts out his book. And I said it, Jay's yesterday, I was like, if you're going to have an opening line, he's got one. Verse two, he says, consider it pure joy, brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds. If you just stop right there, Zach, you talk about a hard way to begin a conversation, because that statement in and of itself is one of the most difficult things written in the whole Bible, in my opinion. Oh, right.

Well, and think about where John started, to your point, which came much later, and he gives this beautiful paragraph of, okay, we saw this Jesus, and now later on in his years, he's like, that which was from the beginning, which we've heard, which we've seen with our eyes, which we've looked at and our hands have touched. This we proclaim concerning the word of life, the life of life. But he gets to the end where he says our fellowship is with the father and with his son, Jesus. We write this to make our or your joy complete.

Isn't that something how both writers from totally different? perspectives are focusing on the true joy that is found in Christ, and one of them, just in the awesomeness of experiencing an eyewitness view of the creator becoming a man. And here's James, who you mentioned yesterday, the half-brother of Jesus? Half-brother. Who at one point didn't believe. Right. John 7-5 referenced it when we went through John, even his own brothers didn't believe.

well, what happened to him? We saw his brother come back from the dead. Yeah, exactly, which I made that point. You know, I said he didn't brag about, this is why he doesn't mention it, he doesn't brag about being Jesus' brother because he shouldn't brag about it. He didn't even believe him.

I mean, he spent this whole life with his brother and he's thought this guy. I mean, how can you imagine? You're born in a family of four brothers. Can you imagine at some point, me or Willie or Jeff saying, hey, just a little. Heads up, I'm actually from heaven.

You know how I hadn't seemed like I really fit in here? It's because I don't. I'm not from here. I'm from heaven. You're like, oh yeah, okay. Go ahead. Jay's, you were the only one that could have claimed it, though, because you were the most different from the rest of it.

So I want to read this verse since you brought it up about John, because I hadn't thought about it. That phrase made my joy complete. When we studied John, I don't have any. in front of me, but there were at least four references that I can remember where Jesus said that exact same thing. Now my joy would be made complete. But listen to what Peter says. Same thing about the same topic in 1, 6 through 8. And all this you greatly rejoice. There it is again. Though now for a little while, this is 1, 6 through 8, you have had to suffer grief and all kinds

of trials. These have come so that the proven genuine, And that's that idea of testing, the authenticity of your faith, of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire, may result in praise, glory, and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. Though you have not seen him, you love him, even though you do not see him now, you believe in him. And here it is, and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy. So again, it comes back to this idea of perseverance.

I want to read these because you referenced them. John 1511, I have told you this so that my joy may be in you, which goes along with 1st John 1, 1, 1st 4, and that your joy may be complete. Then in 1624, now the context of the spirit being poured out and being in you, until now you have not asked for anything in my name. ask and you will receive and your joy will be made complete. Then in his prayer, John 1713, I'm coming to you now, but I say these things while I'm still in the world so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. So there you go. That's good.

So Zach, I'll tell you this, in my opening, in the history of certain people, I doubt this has ever been done. I quoted two philosophers. And I'm sure you do this on a regular basis because you're a philosophy guy. The first one was one you may not have heard of. Have you ever heard of the great philosopher, Robert McCall? Robert McCall.

This was funny. Look, I had to tell everyone on my row because Missy looked at me and said, what's he talking about? And I said, you ever heard a guy named Dead? Denzel Washington. So go ahead. That's your clue.

So here's Robert McCall in Denzel Washington. The great theologian Robert McCall, and I paused. And nobody reacted. And I said, in the opening scenes from Equalizer 2, and then I paused. And then there was some chuckles. But then a bunch of people still didn't react because they thought, what is he telling me? He said this, because I took the whole framework of this statement and kind of wove it

through the lesson. There are two kinds of pain. I don't know if you remember this from the movie. Remember the opening scene? The guy has stolen his daughter and has taken her and the bodyguards are there and McCall has just wiped them out in 20 seconds. And he looks at the guy and he's taken off his disguise. He says, there's two kinds of pain, pain that hurts and pain that alters. And then you just leave the scene. You don't know what happens. What happened to this guy? I don't even remember Remember him saying that Next scene

It's one of my favorite lines ever Because it really to me spoke to what James is talking about In this text We're all going to hurt The question is Is it going to do any good? Is something good going to come

Out of whatever hurts about to happen? That's what he's telling this guy Excellent point He's fixing to just whip that fired him So I told that And then I introduced Job Into the context Because I knew I'd be talking about him

Quite a bit But then Zach I quoted Kirkagard, who actually is a philosopher. And here's what he said, which is fantastic. Adversaries do not make a person weak. They reveal what strength he has. Which you think about that for a minute. Because then we get into this idea about our adversaries,

because James is going to pivot through this text of talking about testing to then talking about temptation. And most scholars have it as sort of an outward, trial and an inward trial, which I think is a pretty good way to look at that. The one comes from us is sort of what we do to ourselves. The other one is what's done to us. And so these are forces at work. And it's not always the evil one.

It could be a lot. It could be circumstantial, a lot of things. But James basically says it doesn't matter. No matter what happens, whether it's the outward trial or the inward trial, ultimately the answer is the same. And so that was kind of the overriding theme of my lesson yesterday out of this text. Well, don't you think that I read those references that you brought up from Jesus in the book of John itself. And you see this common theme happening in First John and James I.

But don't you think it reminds me even from the whole view of First John where he talks about being in the world and don't love the world and we've overcome the world in First John 5, which we'll get to. But after he said that in John 15, you remember, where he says, beginning in verse 18, he says, if the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first, if you belong to the world, it would love you as its own, as it is. You do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. And then it goes on to say, if they persecuted me, they will persecute you also.

Yeah. And, you know, I get it even just living in this world in a world that's been damaged by our own sin, the evil one, the celestial beings that have fallen. You have all kinds of pain that you have to go through. But you also, he's made it real clear. If you follow me, pain is coming. You will be persecuted. And that's why, you know, when you hear a statement like that, which I thought you did a good job setting it up, we just, we don't like pain. And no, we don't.

And considering it pure joy, it's like, it's such a mic drop statement that first, first, to your point. Yeah, and I said, when I read it, I said, good luck, you know, leading a revival with that phrase, right? Unless you go through the whole context, which, of course, we did in the sermon, but also we do, even while we're talking about what we're talking about on the podcast, he lays out, I thought a really good job in those first eight verses of this idea that it's a process that we go through. And in other words, you just don't get to perseverance. You have to live to get to perseverance. You have to live to get to persevere. You have to endure to get to person.

You know, the process he lays out clearly. And he talks about them what that does and what that looks like and what happens when you don't have it. But I think we always take the negative side. I try to take the positive side yesterday that he gives us. us these little clues. He says, you can ask because you have access to God, no matter what you're going through, you have the capacity to ask for help, for godly wisdom. And you just think about that for someone who doesn't know and doesn't have relationship with God and you didn't have that access to really ask for help and get it, but that would be, I mean, that strike one right

out of the bat. That's such a huge thing. And I kept taking it back to the Holy Spirit, even though James doesn't specifically mention in this text, the Holy Spirit, it's all over this idea about where godly wisdom comes from. And we talked about that on this podcast a couple of times. That becomes our access point. And it's been here since the spirit was hovering over the waters, right? The access to the Almighty into whatever we're dealing with and whatever we're going through. I mean, that help is available. And so, and you mentioned our friend, he got that. And yesterday, afterwards. He touched my heart so much

because I just preached this sermon about this and knowing that he was going through this but not knowing he was there and I was like, dude, I said, what about the timing of that? And he said, oh man, it was right where I'm living. I said, I know.

But he said something so amazing to me because he was telling me a little bit about where he's at and his family. And he said, you know, I just listen to your sermon. He said, I just thought to myself how thankful I am that Jesus

thought enough of me to alter where I was at and to where I needed to be. And I thought, you got it, dude. That's what this is about. Because I used that word pain that alters, and he used it when he was talking about. He said, Jesus took the time to alter me. He said, I never would have left the military, you know,

for a lot of different reasons. I never would have changed some things about my life. He said, but Jesus thought enough of me that he helped me. And now I realize this last season of however much time I have on this earth is going to be spent with my family because I spent so much time away from. Oh, and spending time unashamed of his faith. Right. And that, yeah, it was really incredible.

That's a good point, though, that open line you had, because my mom used to say, and she's actually wrong in this, but she would tell me this all the time, but right before she'd whoop my tail, she would say, because, you know, we had parents that believed in what we now, call belt whoopens, both of us. And both of our parents, I guess because they were siblings, I don't know where they got this from. They did engage in the syllabic whooping where each syllable

was a lick. The salivic whipping? You just used a word I've never used. Salavic. I was thinking, is that some kind of Russian whipping? Slavic. Slavic. But she would tell me, before the whoopin would occur that the change only comes when the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of change. And so then she would enforce the weapon to basically say, I'm trying to elevate the pain level where it's more painful for you to stay where you're at than it would be for you just to change. But the truth is, is that some people, they never, I mean, they'll just let the pain continue to increase and they never let it manifest and change. And I think that's one of the wild things about the nature of sin and evil is that it really does.

It can corrupt your mind to a degree that you'll sit in your pain for way longer than you have to. And I think once you start to think about if God's way of righteousness, if it's actually an escape from your pain, it's almost like, I think once you come to Christ, so many people would look back and say, I don't, what took me so long? like why did I wait this long to come to Jesus? And, but yeah, I mean, but you can sit in it if you want to, but for me, it's like, why would you want to? I mentioned that, that first time I heard Mack, Owen, it's the first time I ever heard this. I've heard it many times since that the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over

and over again and expect a different result. And he's talking to people about, you know, trying to help him get out of drugs and alcohol and, you know, things that have plagued their life. But if you think about it, it's just what you describe, Zach, it's true. It's really insane to think you can just, like, stay in something that's unhealthy for you and continue to be there and experience the pain. Because I got into the thing about that how that, because when you get to sin in the second part of this text, and when he shifts over in verse 13, that when we look at and we see the results of sin,

nowhere in the Bible can I find where sin somehow helps you do something. something. Yeah. I mean, it's not in there. Like, in other words, no, you won't find it. Well, you said, Mike Kellett, he said this one time when we were at church camp. I was like maybe 18 years old. And I don't know what I was thinking, but I was an idiot. I know that. And I was something in my mind that had built this rationale that I was going to go get a testimony because I'd hear these testimonies. I thought, well, that's all, man, that is it. Wow, how awesome is that? I need a testimony. And I can go out there and, you know, burn it up for a few years. They give me an excuse and I can come back to Christ and then I'll have a testimony that could really

help a lot of people. I mean, I really thought this in like the deep levels of my subconscious. And Mike said, he was giving a divo. And this like stuck with me all these years. He said, hey, there's no advantage to sin. You know, there's no advantage to sin. And I thought, he's right. He's right. There's no advantage to it. And that's why I'm saying you can find a lot of text, which is why I think James pivoted to that. Because you find a lot of text about gaining endurance through difficulty, do things outside of your control. And, of course, the book of Job is full of that. But when you get to just your own sinful behavior, there's not, Calut's right, there's no advantage of that.

And I can't find where there's anything good that comes from it. Now, that's not saying that when someone leaves a life of sin, that it's remarkable. And I mentioned at the end of our sermon, a woman that was, you know, on the podcast. that told her story. And when you hear things like that, it does. It inspires you that the grace of God was there for this person. But the sin itself, all it does is wreck and destroy.

And he made that real clear. When he did the little, I called the stairway to hell, when he does the desire. Oh, well, I mean, I want to just read that out. Yeah, read that. I want to make a point and to get back to my buddy, Ty. in James 113 when it says when tempted, no one should say God is tempted me,

for God cannot be tempted by evil, which is good news, by the way. That's right. Nor does he tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when by his own evil desire he has dragged away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin.

And, you know, it's hard that we don't ever talk about this as much. It's like you allowing the birth of sin to occur in your life through this process. And sin, when it is full grown, gives birth to death. So we have some bursts going on in your life as you go along. And what's fascinating is then he gives you the good news when he gets to verse 16. He says, don't be deceived, my dear brothers. every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father, which is a theme of the Bible. God coming down, heaven coming down to earth.

Jesus pray, and I pray that your kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven. The Father of the Heavenly Lights, who does not change like shifting shadows? And Al, when you read this verse, Missy leaned over in church yesterday, and she's like, He chose. Yeah. He chose to give us birth through the word of truth that we might be a kind of first fruit of all he created. And that gets into this new creation idea that came from heaven. So it spawned during our lunch yesterday.

I wanted to share this because Ty was asking me about this, this process, because you really hit a nerve with him on that. And because here's a guy who, like you said, Special Force has been a warrior, done a lot of things that's very hard to navigate. And they call it PTSD or whatever. But you're seeing just the worst of the worst when it comes to sin and death and war and all these things. And then you're having to deal with it as a human being. And he's like the mode of operati, you know, for military guys. guys is drugs, alcohol when they get out, went chasing women. He's like, that's just what you do

to try to process what just happened. Yeah. Because you're following that first stepping line. It gives birth to one and to the other. And he's like even, you know, when I was diagnosed with this disease, I mean, this guy works out three hours a day. He has worked out, you know, for years. He's just a trained physical specimen. All of a sudden, he can't do it. He can't do it. He's like, you know what I realize? I go to the gym, work out, and here's women there that are dressed inappropriately as how he put it.

He's like, but I'm putting myself in that situation. He was in a band, and he's like, I love singing and playing in the band. He's like, but guess where you do that at bars? Same women, show up there, dressed inappropriately. He's like, they don't give you tips. They give you shots. a whiskey. And he's like, I didn't, I wasn't putting all that together that I'm putting myself in places for this to give birth and over and over. And he was saying this in a context of, I'm so

thankful that God has humbled me through these trials where I got my focus right now. And I'm worried about this spiritual armor and arming myself for being God's man in whatever situation I'm at. I just thought, what a take on this. And you just see this being refined. You think about this, though, when you had mentioned some of the ways that these military guys that suffer from PTSD deal with that. And you're right. I mean, we have a lot of mutual friends that have come out of special forces. We have a lot of friends in the military that have come out.

And they're dealing with these things. And so they self-medicate. But if you think about the nature of self-medication is what you're essentially trying to do is to get out of this world. Like you're like, because you're in this world, you experience that kind of pain and trauma, which you, I mean, look, you go to CR at White's Ferry Road. And there's a saying that I've heard there that all behavior is explainable in its context. You sit down with somebody that's really strung out on drugs. If you could really sit with them for an extended period of time, what you're going to realize is there's a story behind that of pain, trauma, abuse, neglect. I mean, Phil, in the blank, they've had an experience in this world that was so painful that that is what the problem is that we're trying to escape this world. And I'm so glad that you read that verse. And was that in James where you said that the blessings come from, like they come down from heaven? Oh, yeah. And every good and perfect gift is from above coming down from heaven. But then that

little phrase where he chose to give us birth. And I just immediately thought, We're made in his image. And he's given us the greatest reason to stop what we're doing on earth and change courses. He will even recreate you. And look, since we're made in his image, he gives us a choice to say, you know what, I'm changing courses. I'm just going all in. And I just think it's a beautiful way to depict that transformation process. Because what's happening is the reason why the new birth is key to this whole thing,

and the Bible says that we have the first fruits of the Spirit, and there's this language of Jesus being the firstborn of all creation. And you think of a firstborn, new creation, new earth, rebirth. Here's why it matters, because Christ never prays in the Garden of Gassimony for us to lead the earth. He never says, get him out of this world. It's going to hell in a handbasket, the antichrist is coming. Get him out of here. What he says in John 1715 is my prayer is not.

It's not that you. you take them out of the world, that you protect them from the evil ones. So the nature of the rebirth is it's very earthy. And so when you mentioned the Lord's prayer earlier, when Jesus prays, notice the direction of the kingdom. He says, our father who art in heaven, how it would it be thy holy name thy kingdom come thy will be done right here on earth as it is in heaven and give us today our daily bread. So you read that prayer that Jesus said, this is how you should pray when you pray, there's not one mention in that prayer of us getting out and off of earth. It's not, it ain't about us going anywhere. It's about that, the kingdom of heaven coming to us,

which falls right in line with that passage you read, and James of the blessings coming from heaven. And so our default posture, though, and this not just for guys with PTSD, this is all of our default posture as sinners, is that we want to get out of, we want to get out of this earth. We want to get out of this world. And the Lord's like, no, we're not getting out of this world. We are going to redeem this earth. There will be a new creation or recreation. And you guys, as believers in Jesus, you are the first fruits of that.

As believers in Christ, we house the Holy Spirit. We are actually the first fruits of the Spirit, which will cross over the entire cosmos to the glory of God. And this entire thing, physical universe, will be reborn as the dwelling place of God. And that to me is that. That's why I loved about the text, the end of that text, was that James doesn't mention the name of Jesus or the name of the Holy Spirit, but they're so full in those three verses that are there. Another thing, Zach, that I thought was interesting, and I credit you guys on the podcast, because when he uses that, when he talks about that cycle, and I call it the cycle of doom, when it ends with that idea of death,

you know, the Jewish concept of death, which I really picked this up from our discussions here on the podcast, was more than just, you know, we kind of always taking that as just either physical death and related back to the garden, which did come about as a result of sin, or spiritually being cut off from God,

which, again, did happen in the garden. But the Jewish concept was even bigger than that, which everything you just said, Zach, it points to that. Their idea was death as being a, away from the presence of God. Yes. And you see that all through the old test. Remember when the ark would be gone

or when something would happen? And it was just like, we're alone. We're separated from this idea of being the presence of God. And I read a couple of proverbs that kind of, one is Proverbs 1314. The teaching of the wise is a fountain of life, turning a person from the snares of death.

And that's this idea away from the presence of God. And then also in Proverbs 1228, in the way of righteousness, there is life along that path is immortality. And so they were talking about this, even way back in the ancient days, the idea that the presence of God, him being here with us, walking with us, is what provides us with that life. And in that life and him, we're absent the destruction of relationships and everything around us. So everything you were describing, Jay, is about that lifestyle. It always ends with not necessarily a broken man, but everything else.

else in his life broken. Yeah, exactly. To get you to the point of brokenness. Yeah, because the nature of the site, the reason why it's called this, I think in therapeutic circles, it's called the cycle of insanity, or at least like if you, or to go into like AA or Narcotics Anonymous or Salvate Recovery, they talk about this idea of the cycle of insanity. And it's, we all have experienced it on some level, but essentially it's, okay, I have

trauma and shame and guilt, and I have this whole thing going on in my, in my psyche, in my emotional life. And so I do the thing to try to escape this world and that substance abuse, and that's my thing, then I do the thing. Well, then it gives me temporary relief. I mean, it does. Like when you're in the moment, you wouldn't do it if it didn't give you any temporary relief. So, yeah, I start drinking.

I go get drunk and it numbs me. I'm not having to experience this pain that I'm living in. But then when the drug wears off, when the medication wears off, well, now I'm, I feel even worse than I did before. And so I now have to remedicate again. And it's just this cycle of insanity that just keeps, it's like a spiral that I'm just going all the way down to the bottom. And I used to hear people tell their testimony.

And they said, then I hit rock bottom and I turn to Jesus. I mean, no, you didn't hit rock bottom. Rock bottom is what you said. It's death. Yeah. There is no rock bottom. And you can actually continue into that cycle of insanity. You're not going to get to a place that you're thinking,

I'm so miserable now. now I'm going to turn because the lie continues. It's rooted in lies. And so the only way out of the cycle of insanity is to submit to reality itself, which is, you know, we believe that to be submit to the Holy God and allow him through Jesus to bring you out of that. But that is the cycle. And that's why you never get to the end of it. I wanted to share one more thought in our last segment here that I had not realized,

before, but that really meant something to me. And again, I think it was our conversations that helped me see this for the first time. In verse 12, at the end of the trials section, he sort of opens it was considered pure joy. And then he ends that section, before we got into the sinful stuff we just discussed by saying this statement, blessed is the man who perseveres under trial. Because remember, he talks about the process. Because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him. Now, I've always taken that to mean, you know, that's in eternity. That's the resurrection. We're going to get these crowns of life, you know, because we stood the test of being, you know, the life. But that's not what he's talking

about at all. He's talking about in the context of the trials in the moment. And so I went back and looked at this, the Greek background of this phrase, crown of life. And just to hit on that, Al, you've got to prepare your mind to even entertain the thought of what you're suggesting is that a life who is willing to suffer for Jesus because of who he is, he's looking at that as a positive thing, even though the pain is happening and you're being persecuted and things are just not going well. Yeah, that's a good point. So I think we've always equated, I know I have, I'll just put it on me, that it's

kind of that end of life like, okay, we've accomplished everything and now we get our crown because we did it. We did what we were supposed to do. Not what he's saying. Listen to this. The same Greek word, it's called the crown of glory in 1st Peter 5.4. And you can say, well, you can still make the same case there. Well, in 2 Timothy 4, 8, Paul calls it the crown of righteousness. And in 1st, Corinthiansius 9, 25, he says it's a crown that lasts forever, which is, again, why we equated just to like the next life or the post-resurrection life. But check this out. Here's what blew me away is that.

It's the same Greek word for the crown of thorns that Jesus was wearing on the day he died. And I was like, well, wait a minute. That sure brings it into the context of where we are now. Well, in trials. Right. And Jesus was enduring all this in the crown of thorns. And so I talked quite a bit about that. But here's the kicker.

You go over to Revelation 410, and whenever the elders in this apocalyptic picture are there, and there's this worship going on, the 24 elders, guess what they lay down at the throne? Their crowns. Their crowns. And the idea is that we submit our crowns into who he is and what the crown of thorns represent, which is the son of God coming here, to save us now. and to show us something better now, we're not having to wait to understand that.

We wait for the resurrected body, but we understand the crown of life begins here, begins now. And it's a beautiful picture, because when I lay my crown down at the foot of his throne, that I'm saying, you got this. And that makes me the first fruits. That's what makes me understand what a new birth is all about. So I just, I love that picture.

I'd never thought about it in those terms of how powerful that glory can be not just waiting for glory, but glory now. Yeah. Because the promise here, it is rooted in a trial. You know, we talk a whole lot of this podcast

about the kingdom being here, but in that, but it is painful while we're here, right? I mean, we go through, the go through stuff, we go through a lot of hurt, a lot of pain, which made me think of that

Romans 8 passage, which is one of the most wild passages in all of the Bible when Paul says that the creation itself is groaning with eager expectation waiting for the sons of God to be revealed, which is a while, why would the creation grown? But the idea is, he says the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own will, but by Christ essentially so that in hope that the creation would be liberated from its bondage to decay. And the way that that's going to happen is through the believers, the priesthood of believers. Genesis 128 is going to be realized at one point in the future. Creation will be liberated from

the curse. And so to think about the creation is waiting for us, for the sons of God to be finally revealed so that the creation can then be liberated through the meaningful work of the saints, as they cultivate the garden and expand it across the entire globe and the whole thing's finally realize, that's a hope that is in the future, but we're sitting in that now, and I think that's the trial. We're going through the trials.

We're going through the broken world. We're going through the fact that, man, sometimes we're doing stuff for the Lord, and then we're building churches and building businesses and building communities, and sometimes we're building families, and sometimes marriages fall apart. Sometimes spouses cheat. Sometimes we're in this not yet now, you know,

to bar from the podcast, we're in the night yet now. And I think that's the picture that he's put pointing out, James, push through the now so that we will get to the night yet. We will get to the consummation. He also, he illustrates in the midst of this text, and I got into a little bit yesterday, the idea of making a comparison, because when we're going through something difficult,

a lot of times people, especially people of God, will look at the world around them, and they'll say, well, these people aren't suffering. I mean, they seem to be doing pretty well. And he makes the point. He says, well, I know it looks that way, but that's their test. Oh, yeah. And they're not passing their test.

It's really interesting. And so I closed the lesson with, because we just studied John, with Jesus standing before Pilate. And it was very interesting because you remember Jesus' answer to Pilate in this conversation about whether he was a king. He said, everyone on the side of truth listens to me. And so here's a guy. standing there with a crown of thorns, dug into the scalp, blood down his face, he's been beaten,

he's got the fake robe on, they're mocking him, and he's standing there saying, if you want to do us right, you'll listen to me. And he's literally standing feet away from Pilot, and Pilate's answer, instead of saying who is truth, as you mentioned before, Jays, he says, well, what is truth? In other words, what does that have to do with me? Now here's a guy who... You can make truth whatever you wanted to make. And here's a guy who's the biggest fish in the pond, he thinks, in the moment. He's making all decisions about life and death, and he's standing feet away from the one that can save him forever, and he won't bow the knee. I mean, it's no different when I said about that guy who had justified his lifestyle by saying, well, I was born that way.

He was basically saying, what is truth? I have this truth that I believe it was only when he contemplated who is the truth and that he could be remade without me having to go through philosophical arguments that trumped his delusion. That's it. All of a sudden, it's like, oh, wait just a second. I wanted to bring up, he brought up Romans 8. You know, not only that was a great point about the creation itself, but he goes on to just say in the same way the Spirit helps us in our weakness.

And where does that passage lead? He gets down to verse 35 of Romans 8, and he's like, who shall separate us from the love of Christ? And it's all these things James is talking about. Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or neckiness or danger or sword? And to your point, Al, I think we would do our new converts better by saying, guess what? You surrender to Christ and you're going to get to wear a crown of thorns for Jesus. That's right.

But it just is not something we say because we feel like people are going to say, well, I'm not sure I want to do that. I'm sure I want to sign up for this. But look, even though when you read the First Peter 5, 4 talking about the crown of Lloyd, that whole context is suffering as a Christian, taking a beating. It's like you get to participate in the sufferings of Christ and you're blessed. This, wear it with pride. And I think if you really believe the reality of what we're talking about, he raises dead men,

we get to live forever. All these things are just part of the process that expresses the true love of God. This is what love looks like in our life, which is what he says, who shall separate us from the love of Christ, shall death or even life or angels or demons, neither the present, the future, nor powers, height, death, or anything else, and all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus, our Lord. I would say, Zach, this text and in my sermon yesterday for sure was quite the opposite of what people now call the prosperity gospel. That's out there and popular.

This is the punishing gospel. This is the punishing gospel. But you know what? There's the time this was written, the context of when it was written, it still speaks today as we brought it into the 21st century, even by the lives that people were talking about. the name of it was tried, tempted, true. And I think that's exactly what our experience has to be. We're going to be tried. We're going to be tempted.

The question is, are we going to be true? And that's the submission part to Christ and what he does to shape us and change us. And quite literally, folks, he prepares us for anything. That's why last year we went through the crossing over of Dab. It's never easy to say so long for a while. But at the same time, that transition for us was like, that's natural. And you look at him, he didn't seem real worried about it. Not at all.

Even this new brother, I mean, he's relatively new. What kind of guy looks at the face of a doctor who just kind of put a short period of time? And he kind of chuckles and like, yeah, okay, well, I better get to work. I'm on the clock. That's exactly the way that you want to respond. So I don't know if you're going to listen to this time. I hopefully do. You mean a lot to us, brothers.

So you're a great example to what we should be as well. So, well, that was James 1. So maybe we'll get to first shine next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.