Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 125 | Phil's Message for Gavin Newsom, Preaching Heresy, and What a Lot of Religious People Miss

Episode Date: August 7, 2020

Jase reveals the truth many religious people miss, and it's a doozy. Phil has a Bible verse for California Gov. Gavin Newsom. Al reminisces about the "superhero" blind woman who looked out for him when he was young. And the guys discuss transformations and becoming unrecognizable in Christ, religious hypocrisy, out-of-context Bible verses, breaking wind (again), and what Jase likes to challenge when it comes to religion. - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So we're in John 9, where we've been hanging out for a couple of podcasts through some circuitous routes to get there. But one of the things I was thinking about was that, you know, my life was really shaped at a crucial period of time by a blind person. And I don't even know if you remember him, Dad, but whenever we moved to Junction City, and of course, this is back, you know, when Dad was not a Christian.

And so I was four years old, Jace was born the year we moved there, his dad was just getting out of college. And so he was working at a high school there in Junction City. He was a teacher and a coach. And mom worked for the superintendent. She was a secretary. So we lived on the school property. They had a house there, which, by the way, I went back maybe a year or two ago,

and I spoke in that area. So I drove out there, you know, just to look around it. Now there's like a, the house is gone, those two houses that were there. But it's just kind of like a bus barn or, you know, school stuff. So it's not, but it's so funny because in my mind, you know, when you're four years old, and I'm Jason, just that for you maybe here, everything seems so much bigger. Like, but I could see the ball field down there and the dump and all the areas when I was a kid. It was like an exploration to go.

Oh, yeah. It felt like you were going miles away. Like, I'm so far away from my. house but when I'm surveying the scene as an adult the whole thing was just right there I mean oh when we lived at Darbonne lake this was when you you know which led to you sending us on our way which led you to Jesus so I've dealt with that we're good but as a kid I was like man that was I remember it was so fun because one I could get away from y'all and go down to the lake you know and it felt like it was a long way fine worms you know we got a trailer on the hill I'm yeah well

we're living like kings, you know. I went back just a few years ago. I was over there for some reason, and I said, I want to go and see where we used to live. Still there. I pulled up, and I was like, you're talking about a dump. You know, there's still a handful of trailers up there. Well, yeah.

It was a dump back then, too. Well, I know. But as a kid, you only see what's in front of you. I was finding worms, and I was fishing having the time of my life. We explored that whole hill. I was running around. my underwear, you know. I mean, you're just a little kid.

You don't know. This is wonderful. So this was the place in Junction City was the place before that place. And because Jay is too young to remember it before we moved. But so we moved there and obviously, you know, there were, as a kid, I had a lot of great memories, but they're also not so great stuff too. But there was a preacher in his wife that lived on the street about three houses down. And they just saw me out playing in the yard.

and they came in, they were doing a VBS. At first summer, we moved there when Jay's was born. So this was 69. And they asked if they could take me to church to the VBS. They asked mom, probably, or maybe you. And you said yes, you know, and they took who they were. Which really probably wouldn't even happen today. No, it probably wouldn't.

And they were in their 70s at the time. But I mean people now or so. Oh, they'd be. If somebody come up in your yard and say, hey, we want to take one of your kids to church. During that time, Brian, I'm going to assure you. it wasn't me they talked to you. I was trying to be nice. They talked to your mom.

I was trying to be nice. It was in a bit of a fog. It was a bit of a fog. But I think you got. It's embarrassing to even think about it. I know. So, but here's the point. So even though that wasn't the best of times for you and mom, you did have the

wherewithal probably because you grew up going to church that it was okay for me to go. And so I went, well, I loved it. I mean, they had Kool-Aid and, you know, whatever else they had at VBS. So I just started going with them. So I started going on Sundays and Wednesdays. And so what was amazing was is the wife, Sister Layton was her name. And she was blind. And so she had been blind since she was 12 years old.

She was just like, she told me the story. She was 12 years old. She saw her all of a sudden just the vision started leaving. And because something happened, you know, in that optic area. And then all of a sudden she's blind for the rest of her life. And now she's in her 70. But she was like a superhero to me because, you know, like most blind people, all of her other senses were like super heightened. So I could just take one step in the yard.

She'd be inside the house and she would call out my name. And I was like, I mean, she knows. How does she know? You know, I'm four or five, six year old kid. But then she would sit down and she would tell me Bible stories. And I would be looking in the Bible. And she would know I'm just, I mean, verbatim. It was just like.

And I would think she could really see. I would like do my hand because I was thinking she was reading. That's how well she knew the Bible. She taught me songs. So I was just thinking about it in this text is that here is this woman who had been blind for 50 years of her life. But she and her husband, because their commitment to Christ, had a huge impact on me. Because from when I was four until I was nine until we moved away, eight or nine, I had that spiritual connection to these people. And so it was really interesting.

I was speaking up. That was the almighty looking at you. Just like we talked about with fellas, he was protecting me. And, you know, I was a few years ago, there was a story, and I told something about the story. When we got famous, people knew we were. And their granddaughter, who's now in her seven, I mean, these people would be over 100 years old now. She reached out to me, and so I met her, and she lives in Surcey, Arkansas. Well, why are you know.

It was really interesting because she remembered me from, you know, her parents telling her stories about me because I was like their little grandson. So she's a faithful woman. Faithful woman of God. and still continues that. And so she remembers her grandparents. It's a really cool story. But, you know, this guy that we've been talking about in John 9, basically he was born blind. And so we talked about in previous podcast that the disciples mistakenly assumed that somebody had sin was the cause of this.

Either he did or his parents. Right, right. Because that was the thought process, which we discussed that from the first few verses. What's interesting is when we get down, I think we went through the first seven verses, people now are seeing him, the neighbors and all these people, and they're like, in verse eight, isn't this the same man who used to sit and bag? And some said he was. The other says, no, it just looks like him, which was interesting because they were having a hard time.

Well, it can't be that guy, because how did he all of a sudden just start seeing? You know, they were trying to figure out what happened. But you know, what's weird is even after Jesus healed him. And then they have the investigation and the argument. And the Pharisees basically made the accusation in verse 16. It says some of the Pharisees said, this man is not from God, for he doesn't keep the Sabbath. You know, they went back on that, which was back on John 5. And, you know, if you wanted a bumper sticker moment of the whole story, in verse 33 to me,

because the man answered, if this man were not from God, he could do nothing. Which I like that statement. He just concluded, if he wasn't from God, he couldn't do anything. Right. Which is a blanket statement that I like because it's universally true. What can you do without God? Just think about it. Right.

What can you do? In reality, nothing, really. Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind. Yeah, that was there. And that was what he said right before if this man were not from God. But what I want to say, just to say to my point is what Al just read, they had mistakenly thought someone's in, well, the Pharisees, here's the religious people who you would think would be pro-God,

arguing with a man who had just been transformed, and they went back to that initial argument way at the end of the story because in verse 34, after he said that if this man were not from God, he could do nothing, 33, to this three replied, you were steeped in sin at birth. How dare you lectures? After the whole story, they went right back to where it all started,

which was basically this was their argument. it. Yours a curse on you because you were born blind. I mean, how uncompassionate is that? Right. And here's God, literally God, on the earth, healing this person, transforming him. And remember right after he did that, then they came up there and they didn't even recognize him. And I thought from a spiritual application, because Jesus makes the spiritual application in 35 through 41 talking about being.

spiritually blind, which is why I brought up the deal last podcast about the spitting, because they couldn't digest one fact that this is the son of God. He has the power to heal. He actually made the saliva that he spit. And I just think that's why he did what he did, which was the whole point while we went, low-brow humor. But I'm saying if you're God, you can do what you want. and these things that we make fun of or think that's gross or, you know, in some states you can't spit on the ground.

I mean, it's against the law. An atheist right now would just say, I can't believe these idiots. Yeah. Believe that. They would. But I tell you this, it seems like to me that there's way more evidence that there's an intelligent designer when you analyze saliva or why we break wind or, you know, all these things we talk about. No, they make sense to me. They have a function.

We're the ones that have difficulty embracing that. But for it just to happen randomly out of seaweed, as you always say, and everything functioned that way, to me, that's a pipe dream. I mean, that's your imagination saying, well, maybe I just exploded from nothing. And I have this kind of complication to me. I mean, not to even get into your eyeball and how all that works and your ears. And, you know, when you think about the senses, I mean. Very complex.

It's amazing. And here he comes saying, look, I'll take this stuff that you view as frivolous and heal a person that's blind. I mean, what? And then they don't even give it a chance because the point is was all about the heart, the spiritual, blindness, being aware, not having some kind of system. Many are invited, but fewer choices. That supports your own narrative, which is what they had. It's always the narrative.

Let's face it. They have a system built on law that they think is right, and even God himself, even God himself could not change that narrative. And you have to be in lockstep with them or you're out. Lockstep, agree with everything we say, or you're out. I think there's a little bit of that going on to this day. That's why in organized religion, I challenge everything that's not about Jesus. I challenge everything because I'm like, don't form a narrative in your head with a group or with a creed and perhaps be wrong because I see it over and over and over with religious people in the Gospels.

And it's always our way or the highway. Yeah, that's what the other word. Jot and Tittle. You don't agree? You know what they do? They ask you to leave politely or cleverly. The word, Jase is ostracize. Oh, cancel.

Yep. They'll cancel you. I think the same way with this, the climate change folks, you know, they wonder, why is this, why these people not, they should be panicking with us about climate change. This is happening. It's got a little warmer cows or, speaking of expelling gas. I just saw a commercial. I think it was maybe bird.

King. One of the burger places is they're doing this whole thing about we're going to cut cow flagellants by one third. They worship the creation instead of the creator. Exactly. I mean, the reason why I'll tell you why we don't get that shook up about is we believe in the one that created it. And if he decides whatever he's going to do with creation, I mean, there's not a lot we can do. You know what I'm saying? I mean, I'm for as clean an atmosphere as possible. Well, I love to breathe good air and drink good water. I mean, I'm for that. But when it comes to the big macro problems of,

is there too much cow methane coming out of a cow? So we shouldn't eat a hamburger. That's what these nut jobs are saying about. I mean, how crazy is that? You don't eat a hamburger because by you eating a hamburger, there's a cow somewhere releasing gas that's going to kill us all. That's the link. But that's what I'm saying, that's how narratives are built.

It's not logical. It's not logical. It's just like this. It's like crazy. I think one of the. positives in this story is that they didn't recognize, even his own neighbors, they didn't even recognize him. And I thought about that in a spiritual application.

Think about it if you had seen someone that was lying there. Day after day, year after. Well, they say it was just a blind guy. All of a sudden, you see some guy running around and say, look at him here. And they're like, wait a minute here. They said, no, no, it looks like him, but that's not him. He can't be. Well, that's why I mean.

Because he couldn't really buy the next. He looks a lot like him, but no, this dude, you go down there, he's there. It must be his cousin from another town that just looks like. Hang on, Jason, let's take a break. Well, in a spiritual application, in a spiritual application, if you get your old friends back in the day that we were discussing, they wouldn't recognize you at all. They came up and wanted me to run with them. You know, when they finally located me, I,

I went on lockdown, you know, no cell phone. I'm a cell phone. No telephone, period. So I hid out for about a year, well, they got the trickling in, and they all left one at a time, and they all wanted me to go with them. I said, no, of course, my line was the one you're looking for died. I was speaking about baptism, and this is the new one. And they all looked at each other and said, what?

So they didn't recognize me, because what was coming out of my mouth was the It was the opposite of what used to be. You were telling them what changed you. Which, by the way, you converted. I said, I'm not running with y'all anymore. And the joy that came along with it, the peace, the pay. Well, in this case, I think that was a lot of too. I mean, he was a blind beggar.

And now part of the healing that God had done, part of the byproducts is he's now joyful, his old facial expression. You know what I mean? He probably cleaned himself up because now he can seem like the same one. Well, they're just like, well, that ain't him. I mean, it looks like him. It's like him. But not him.

I just think there's something to that in the spiritual application that you do become unrecognizable in Christ. That is correct. In many ways. I mean, it just, it's something that it's hard to get your head around. I think it's an evidence. People talking about the evidences of God. It's got to be in the top five.

True transformation. Or even answered to. prayer these days. We prayed and people have been healed and you don't recognize the person. You remember the guy in Memphis when he come up there? Well, actually, his family came up to our booth and asked Phil to come to the hospital and pray because he had cancer. They didn't give him wrong to live. And Phil said, yeah, I'll go, which I was shocked. I was like, well, we're working here. He's like, y'all take care of it. And he goes to the hospital, prays for him. and he said if he got better and the Lord healed him that he would take him duck on.

And so we go up there, I think it was a couple years after that. And the guy come up there with the calendar and, you know, like, hey, how you don't? Well, you didn't recognize him. No. Because now he had hair. And he's like, I'm the guy you paint. His head was shaved and had a tube going up in it like the tube going up in the nostrils, whatever.

I mean. And Phil, he said, well, you look better. And he's like, yeah. And so this one feels out. I guess you want to take me up on that duck hunt? He's like, that's why I got my calendar. He said, you told me, he said, if I live, that you take me duck on him?

And I said, so now you call him you on it. He said, yeah. I said, look, and he got his buddy. They did come down to duck hunt. It was actually one of the greatest hunts we've ever had. And just saw me. He said, that's the guy that they thought had a 10% chance of living, but he's going to die.

You prayed for him and he's okay. And Jay told me, he said, I think there's something to this. He said, could I name? These ducks ain't been coming in like they're doing the day. I'll tell you this. Another thing. The Almighty blessed you with them. That morning, it rained as hard as I've ever seen it rain while we were duck hunting.

And you'd just see the ducks come in. You could just see the flickering. And we were just, whoa, won, won, won't, whoa, whoa, whoa. You know, when you're duck cutting and you're killing ducks, doesn't matter that it's rain. Because you're adrenaline. You don't know it's raining. And so we kill a limit of ducks by 8 o'clock. And when we kill the last duck, it stops raining, and a rainbow came out.

And I'm sitting there thinking, this is just, this is kind of crazy if you back up two years and feels in a hospital room. And this is where we're at here. I mean, now you tell somebody in the world, they'll say, oh, that was just coincidence. But to me, I'm like, I like that. Almighty was speaking that. They would have a John 9 moment here, you know. But if somebody would have run an investigation, somebody in the world, they would

have tried to poke holes at it like the Pharisees did. The Apostle Peter makes an interesting point on the people, chosen people, royal priesthood, holy nation, people belong to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light, which we're doing right now. once you were not a people but now you are a people the people of God once you had not received mercy but now you've received it it is interesting with the guy they didn't recognize he said dear friends I urge you and here's what he said we would be like we urge you as aliens and strangers in the world to abstain from sinful desires You're like, so when people run upon the people of God and they say, well, that seems a little strange.

Strangers and aliens, Al, what can you say? Yeah, I mean, that's what we're called to be. I mean, if you're not like them, you end up being an alien and a stranger to them. They're like, I don't know what's going on there. But, you know, they're hollering about Jesus, you know. They get on their knees and pray for people, you know. and they believe in miracles. You know, I don't know about that bunch right there.

It pushes back some people. They're like, I don't want to get into all that. Right. Well, and they'll be breaking out the Bible on me. Because there's been so many religious groups, and here we clearly have one in John 9, who have abused, I guess, the organizations, gathered around the son of God, that they just, there's a distaste there.

And so, because like for every great moment, like we just shared, you also have a, you know, a tele-evangelist saying, send me a thousand dollars for your miracle, you know, or they're faking stuff, you know, the trade's all pageantry and this guy's, you know, some have sincere motives and some don't, but Jesus said, leave him alone. Well, and you have religions that are like, well, you know, it doesn't matter if you have one wife, you know, have 14. And, you know, and it turns into a herm and kids that are being abused. So what about 35 through 41 on the spiritual blindness? What about that?

Well, before we get there, though, I wanted to make a point in the investigation. I want you to see how this happens with this narrative that Jace was talking about earlier. Back in verse 18, the Jews still did not believe that he had been blind. and received his sight until they sent for the man's parents. So the investigation brings them mom and dad. They're double checking this. Oh, we're like, we're going to find out who this guy is. But they were scared.

And they're scared. Because whoever believed in Jesus, they would kick out of the synagogue. Exactly. So it says, is this your son? Is this the one you say was born blind? How is it that he can now see? Listen to the crafted answer of the parents. This is how scared they are that they're going to be kicked out of the synagogue.

Well, we know he's our son, okay, the parents answer, and we know he was born blind. So these two things we can confirm, no doubt about it. That'd be kind of hard to deny. Exactly. And they're just like, well, but they weren't sure. I mean, you think about it. They got a situation. A guy is healed.

And I'm sure the medical practices back then weren't what they are today. So we have a problem. Either he's from heaven and he's got a power. You know what's sad to me, though, is this should be one of the greatest moments in their life. Our son who is more black can see, we can't even enjoy it because of the years. There's no enjoyment. You'd have thought everyone would have been jumping up and down. I see the same thing in churches today.

People come to Christ and there literally are people in the audience who cannot enjoy it because they think something that happened in the steps of leading this person to Christ or whatever people with them who spontaneously broke out in singing or shouting or something in the wrong place and they're like no way i don't know if we ought to be you know these people and a lot of them are two good people but they when you see one that's all tatted up and you don't know whether to meet them or read them and they just and i noticed some of of the some people look at that and say i don't know yeah there's a rough look like an old dude a rough looking girl i don't know why you'd be spending time with somebody they think uh somehow

they weren't worthy yeah of the blood of jesus but they they just well because there's a fear because look some of these people are criminals and you know and they're using your your compassion as weakness and they're we've all had people steal from us and they're they're they're they're But you can't stop helping people. You can't stop helping people. You can't do it. Because that's what we're doing. Let's take another break.

You had a guy one time met me in the back. And he's a good guy, but he just, you know, like you said, he couldn't. He's looking over the section of our church. And he's like, I mean, we've got all these thugs in here. And it really just, I mean, it really bothered me because I was like, you know, I would, those, some of the, you're those your brothers and sisters in Christ. I mean, they've had a rough way to get here different from your background, but you shouldn't look at your brother-s-sisters.

That woman from Indiana that I baptized yesterday, she said something to the effect. I was listening to that podcast. She said, listen, I've been a very sinful person. And I told her, I said, you've come to the right place. You've come to the right place, and you're making the right move. Right. I said, leave your life of sin.

Let's go with it. Yeah. So. Well, look, Jesus was sinless. He was a sinless man. Contrary to Don Lemon, he had no sin. And he's the most empathetic person to sinners that's ever walked the earth. That is it.

So you think about it, if the only sinless person that's ever lived, love sinners, then I sure better love him. Well, they made the same statement when they said a second time in 23, they said they summoned the man who had been blind, give glory to God. They said, we know this man is a sinner. And he was talking about Jesus. Yeah. And he replied, well, whether he was a sinner or not, I don't know. One thing I do know, I was blind, and now I see. I love that.

He never wavered. So they're like, well, how did he do it? They've already asked, you know, they asked him that 10 verses before, and he said, he sped on the ground, he took mates of mud, he put it on my eyes, and I was healed. Why do you want to hear it? So that's why he says, why do you want to hear it again? do you want to become his disciples too? Well, that was the wrong. Right.

Because then they got mad. You know, they're like, oh, we're with Moses. Which that's why we have a whole chapter in Hebrews 3 about that, because some of these people have put their faith and trust in Moses. They had twisted this thing where if we can prove he was a sinner, he shouldn't have healed him. Right. Well, you know, that'd knock out everybody that's ever been healed. That's right.

Exactly. I mean, that's what I'm saying. I think that was a legitimate point, is that. Because they stumbled upon one of the true fundamentals of God. If you're God, you have to be sinless. That's the problem I have with other religions who hold up a sinner as a God. I'm like, well, wait a minute, that's not going to work. Because in eternity, if your God is a sinner, well, he could sin.

So we could get a thousand years into the heaven. And all of a sudden, he said, you know what, I changed my mind. burn you all. You know, I just now, I'm looking at this text. Y'all can put the correct exegedical move on it. A second time they summoned the man who had been blind, verse 24. Give glory to God, they said, we know this man's a sinner. They weren't talking about the blind man.

No, that's what I just said. They're talking about Jesus. That's correct. Yeah. But they only knew. He replied, well, whether he's a sinner or not, I don't know. One thing I do know, I was blind, I'd see now. So they were saying, well, how could a sinner heal?

But where do they come up with this thing about he had to be a center? Why would they say that? Well, I'm going to say this. They'd never seen him saying, that's for sure. Because it's universal. All people said it. They were using a universal fact. They look at it, but he looks like a man.

He's from Galilee. Oh, he's from Galilee. I know he's the center there. Well, you see what I mean? There's no good things in Galilee. But Phil, you bring up a good point, and I want to say this delicately. This story shows you a truth that a lot of religious people miss, in my opinion, which is the Bible is the truth, but not all Bible is true. Because here you have some statements that you could take out a context, like that one.

We know he's a sinner. Yep. And say, well, Jesus was a sinner. I just read it. That's what the guy is seeing in. And I'll tell you another one. The one I read a while ago, it said, you were steeped in sin at birth in 34. How dare you lectures?

So people say, see, you're sinful at birth. I just read it. No, they thought he was. They were wrong. Just like they were wrong about Jesus being a sinner. Plus, there's a people, the different teaching, that you're born a sinner. Right. That may be where they're getting it right here.

But if you get up in a pulpit and say what I just said, that, you know, the Bible is truth, but not all Bible is true. There will be people fall out of the pews. They'll say, you know, get some tar and feathers. He just said the Bible wasn't all true. Well, you start reading stuff over in a book of Job, and when they had a similar situation on why Job was being persecuted, kind of like this, they were giving him the worst advice ever.

Well, they were making the point from this context. Yeah, but I've heard preachers, get up and preach a sermon. And then quote or give reference a verse in Job. Bill Dad or something. Yeah. And I'm thinking, nope. You just gave this whole community the exact opposite advice of what they should do. Yeah.

You just preached heresy. And I guarantee you they're the same people that would defend it. That's the reason I never take any money from going up there at the little congregation, why I'm now, preach the Gadswell, because I've got enough freedom to say, if they don't pay me, they can't fire me. So they just got to go with it. I'm just making a point that. If I got that check hanging over your head, you're like, it makes.

Well, we're all working for free now. What I'm discussing is a little deeper problem in that people who read the Bible like a college course to make a 100 on getting all these facts straight, you're going to take something out of context, especially if you don't do research. You know, if you Google some verses about being sinful at birth and this pops up, and you're like, oh, well, we, yeah, yeah, I read it. There it was, you know. Yeah, you're on the wrong side of this thing.

That's a good point that there's, the Bible is truth, and yet there is, because it's people having conversations, obviously, not everybody is saying true things that are in the Bible. That's right. Ecclesiastes is another great example. I mean, Solomon was in major depression mode. that's one of the most depressing books in the Bible. I mean, it is. It's bad. So if you took a lot of quotes out of it and just tried to apply it into your—

Well, and some of them I say are general truths. You know, like when you read proverbs, I mean, it's not 100% accurate. Every wife is not a dripping faucet. But I've known a few dripping foscent. You know, if you started— It says to make— Well, to Al's dripping faucet. I'm like, what?

I know. It said, the words of the teacher, son of David. King and Jerusalem, and here's Solomon, meaningless, meaningless, says the teacher, utterly meaningless. Everything is meaningless. That's the first statement out of his mouth. Look, there's nothing to anything. So if he didn't understand the context that Solomon was going through a rough patch, you know,

when he was writing in Ecclesiastes, he came to the realization that after a thousand wives, which is, by the way, when you have a thousand wives, that's where you probably come up with this for a few of them. Well, he finally ended up saying, I'll fear God. and do what he says. Right. He says the right thing at the end, but the context of it's pretty bad.

He also said, you know, I had a buddy of mine when I was in early high school, and every verse that he would show me had something to do with, you know, her breasts were like towers or whatever. Song of the verses. Yeah, of course,

the only reason he's reading his Bible is to find every verse that talks about breasts or a vagina, and he's wanted to show me that. And I'm like, I think you're missing that. The larger narrative. Something here. But having said that, those verses are in the Bible. Sure there.

You just never hear a discussion outside of a few married seminars. Well, that's probably right. Let's take another break. Yeah, there was a verse somewhere in numbers that talks about a certain group of people and their description. Whoever the writer, Moses, I guess, was the writer described them by their genitalia, which those are the kind you always confines that, you know, the people that dig through there for that. Oh, yeah.

But it's in there. You know, we said before it. I think you have to be open about it because a lot of people just in churches, they tend to have this, this etiquette that when we go in there, everything must be done. Decent and in order. And in order. And we can't. But a lot of the Bible, even talking about, you know, spitting on the ground.

which I talked about it last time, or the absurdity, you know, of someone breaking wind. Because there's a law somewhere in the state where I read that it's against the law to break wind in church if it's deemed that it was done to be disruptive. There is a law that says that. Yeah. So we need more laws, you know. So I... Let's face it, Jay's the human race. the human race, they can come up with more rules and regulation.

Why is it that the irreligious are full of edicts, rules, and regulate? It just comes forth from them. Is it about just the power of it? No, it's not the irreligious. A lot of religious people, this is a religious, that came from religious law, that you can't do that. I just think that it's done. in this narrative of this is the way God wants us to be.

Instead of reading and saying, you know what, there's a lot of gray area. And there's a lot of things in the Bible that are uncomfortable. And I'm sure most religious people probably wouldn't think that if they were given the reins to heal people, they're not going to be spitting on the ground making mud pies healing. It's just not because that just seems there's no etiquette in that. Right. Yeah, but you also got to remember this thing at the start of this, along with about another dozen times in the cross the gospels, the continued misunderstanding was by these Jewish leaders were that Jesus was sinning because he was doing these things on the Sabbath. But they totally misunderstood the purpose of the Sabbath.

And that's what Jesus kept telling them. In Mark 2, he said to them over another deal, because, you know, the disciples are going along where they're hungry. So it's the Sabbath, and they're taking the tops off of some, you know, maize or something out in the field, and they're eating it. And then they look at it. See, there he goes again. Look at the disciples working on the Sabbath because they're eating this. And so that was that case. And Jesus said, you don't know what you're talking about.

Then he said the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. That was their core misunderstanding. So the son of man is Lord, even of the Sabbath. What he was telling them was, is I was the one that came up with the Sabbath. I was there. You know what I'm saying? I agree. And then I think it was a principle of rest that they had turned into a legalistic, you know, you can't do.

We're going to tell you what you can do and what you can't do. We're going to draw the line on what's work and not working. And to your point, that's exactly what these little despots are doing today. We're going to let you know with what you're doing is hurting us or helping us. So we're going to draw the line. You want to run over here and do this. We're okay with that. But you can't do that.

It's that same mindset. It is. Which comes back to that verse. Legalism, I don't know who said it, some older guy. It was McGuigan. Legalism is a killer. It's a killer. Well, he said it must, but then he said it must be hunted down.

For whatever it is. But whatever verse we read that where he said they came to make him king by force, I think that was in John 6. Yeah. It was after that. Which supports that line of thinking is that there's a narrative that they want to get out. they realize he had some power, whether it's real or not. It's indifferent.

People believe that he's real. So let's make him king by force so that we can get our narrative out there to the people. But he also pursued another thing, because I think there's something really interesting in verse 35. After they kicked John 935, after they got mad, said he was sinful at birth, they threw him out. I mean, throw him out. Here's the heel. This is not a happy ending. He's healed.

He's transformed. An argument ensues, an investigation, and they throw him out on the street. And just as a side, not to just throw his parents too much under the bus, but they really didn't back it up. They were more afraid of being thrown out. They were just like, you need to talk. They didn't believe Jesus was son of God either. That's exactly right. So what I'm saying is it's kind of sad because the parents just kind of let them, let them throw him under the bus.

Every person is responsible for how they view Jesus. Right. Which is an underlying theme through the whole book. Your parents could raise you right. They could take you to church. Don't mean anything. You know what's interesting? Here's a blind man from birth.

I don't know how old he was, but I'd say what. Well, it says he's of eight. Of eight. They said he's of age. That would be 30 in their country. So he's at least 30. He's 30 something years old. And he's finally healed.

And it's caused him more. trouble. That's right. Then it was when he was black. Yeah, that's what's amazing. And he probably doesn't care because he can see. He can see. But I think Jesus says something interesting because he was coming at the Pharisees with that, yeah, I'm the Lord of the Sabbath.

I'm the son of God. That was the whole narrative. But when he came back after the guy gets thrown out in 35, he says, Jesus heard that they had thrown him out. He didn't have to hear about it just by the way. He knew me. He knew. And when he found him, which is what Jesus is really good at, finding people.

Finding people that seek him. Do you believe? Now, notice the phrase, he said, in the son of man. Because if you think about the significance, because he often referred himself as a son of God and the son of man, which is a difficult thing for us to get. But the Pharisees were saying, since he's a man, he bound to be a sinner. That's it. I think that's why he phrased it like that because he was being accused of being a sinner. Because the Pharisee said, we know it.

We know he's a sinner. He was in flesh and they said, oh. But you got to remember the guy who was born, blind, who was healed. He knows he's healed. He knows that that guy healed him. So he's basically saying, to heck with all y'all. I'm going with him. Because that kind of power has healed me, which I don't know if he was reasoning to the resurrection at this point, but I think I would have.

By the way, it's an interesting point because the guy he told that. Hang on. Let's take a quick. Last break. He said that when Jesus heard that throwing him out, when he found him, he said, do you believe in the son of man? And check this out. Who is he, sir, the man had? Which is the whole question of John.

He said, tell me so that I might believe, I may believe in him. He still didn't quite get it. That's what I was going to bring up. And I was going to tie in with what we talked about on the last podcast, this next phrase, and I want to highlight this. I mean, y'all know that I have a special place in my heart for worship, me, and my wife and I leave worship at church. And we've been pursuing that for years because of little verses like this that are found

many, many times in the gospel. In verse 38, it says, then the man said, Lord, I believe, and he worshipped him. And so when these people try to come up with this, you know, the California governor saying, oh, you can't sing in church now because of the coronavirus. Well, we know where that's coming from. That's just of the devil. It bothers you that people love God and they're singing. But to us, oh, we can't help it because it's a reaction.

I mean, when you believe Jesus is Lord and the Son of God, oh, you're going to worship. Can't help it. Now, you can throw me in jail. And what did Paul and Silas do when they did that? worship. They were singing and praising God. They had just taken a beating and they're worshipping God. It had a great impact on the jailer. And I've heard religious people say, you know, that's one of the mysteries that they would be doing that. I'm like, mystery. They believe Jesus is Lord. If he wants, if Jesus wants to get them out, oh, he'll get them out. You know, once you know that he has that

power, you're worshiping. I think, which is the point. here, which are little things that you don't really realize that it's more reactionary. God is always about, it's not about obedience. And you said, what? You know, the religious piece of what? He wants you to obey. There's a difference in there. It's not just, you know, roll everything out and like, you must obey.

Do this, one, two, three. If you do one, two, three, you're in. That's why he said, where is it, Matthew five? that those who hunger and thirst for righteousness. So once you get to know Jesus, which the fundamental question in the book of John is that question in 36, who is he? Well, I have a verse,

what's the old governor's name in California, Al? Newsom. Newsom. Mr. Newsom, Mr. Newsom, verse 39, John 9, read this. For judgment Jesus said that he had come into this world so that the blind will see, and those who see,

will become blind. That's where the governor is. Yeah, and a lot of other people. He said, no, you can't sing to God. That's against the law. Right. You're like, what? Yeah, you might catch a pandemic.

That's the only reason I'm doing that. Al, you're up to no good when you can't tell anybody they can't sing. Yeah, I agree. You talk about taking freedom of speech to a new level. Well, look what the Pharisees said in verse 40. So their answer is they're there, and he says, says that and they said, what? Are we blind to? Like, I mean, what are you saying? You said we can't? You're saying we can't see? Which led to another controversial statement, which a lot of religious

people focus on and they miss the joy of the whole story because they don't understand what he meant by 41. I'll be honest, and I'm not sure exactly. I can't give you a theological breakdown of it because he says if you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin, but now that you claim you can see your guilt remains. I mean, I think it was more about the innocent. There is a time, which I think goes into when you're a kid, which is where this started, he was born. They accused he was born innocent. You know, the verse that sticks out in my mind is that, is it Romans 7, five, where it says, once I was apart, I was alive apart from law. Yeah, Romans 7. Yeah, it's Romans 7, four or five, read the whole chapter, you'll see it.

But then it says, once I was alive apart from law, and then the commandment came and sin... When the commandment came. Yeah, and when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. Yep. Now, whatever your version, however that reads, I'm going to find exactly where that is. It's wrong. The only logical... I've had many arguments about this verse.

The only logical conclusion, in my opinion, no, it wasn't 7-4. It's 7-9. Once I was alive apart from law. But when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. So I only make this as a point to say, how could you be alive, Paul here who wrote Romans, apart from law? didn't know what it said. It's going to be when you're a little kid. Conscience has not developed.

That's right. A baby in a crib can't be a sinner because you say, what could they do to sin? So here. They don't know what sin is. They're too young. So fast forward here. I don't think that was his overall point. I just think he was making a principle that say if you're blind, you would not be guilty.

I think he was talking about him. He was talking about what just happened. Because remember, it started with a question, who sinned, that this man was born blind? He's talking about this. Well, I do think that out. He said neither the parent nor the child. Well, he didn't mean that they'd never sin. He just said that wasn't cause and effect.

Right. That's why he's mind. No, I agree. I was just going to the underlying theological argument behind that is, which is, I know, a little bit. So what basically he's saying is this guy was blind. And it wasn't because of sin. It was so that the work of God might be revealed. He already said that.

But now he is a believer because he has seen. way beyond just seeing with his eyes. Now he sees with his whole heart and spirit. The Pharisees, they could see physically, but they didn't believe in Jesus. No, and they were worse off. That's right. I mean, don't ever doubt it.

They committed, I don't know if, you know, I guess sins do have different degrees as far as consequences. And to me, if you're claiming to be a man of God and your actions, especially with human beings and a love and compassion for them, are in direct contrast, would think that's about as bad as it gets. I mean, when you stand before a guy one day.

They kicked him out of the synagogue because he got healed. I mean, that was why they did it. Can you imagine being part of this group? That's a hard to be a part of it. Can you imagine when he said judgment, the verse for judgment I have coming to this world, can you imagine standing before God being on the wrong side of something like this? And you're standing up there and he's like, I try. You took on my son in a mean, hateful way and tried to thwart my purpose for the salvation of humanity.

What do you think I should do with you? That would be a very good question. And let's face it, the very thing that we're seeing here is why we're all so disgusted when we see hypocrites who make laws for people, but then don't live by it. or have other groups of people not have to do that. Nobody likes a hypocrite. I mean, you know, I'll tell you this, I wish every else, since I'm not part of any religious organization in a leadership way, I would love, I can say this, for every

group of religious people, when they have their meetings with all the pastors and elders, y'all, y'all have the meeting. I would love for one of those meetings to start off by saying this, the leadership, are we sure that nothing we're doing is thwarting the overall mission of God. That would be a great question. Because you definitely don't want to be on the side where you're hindering the kingdom of heaven itself in your religious teaching.

Not a good place to be. It's a fair point, Jase. So we're out of time. Dad's book is out. Be sure and check that out. Jesus politics, how to win back the soul of America. You can get that on Amazon.com, a lot of other places. Check that out.

And see you next time. So we're so glad you guys were with us today. You can subscribe on iTunes or Spotify or YouTube or Facebook. And be sure and rate us on iTunes so that other people can know about the podcast.