Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1277 | The Robertsons & Godwins Open Up About HIV Scares, Miscarriages & Marital Collapse

Episode Date: February 25, 2026

Jase and Al welcome John and Paula Godwin to reflect on the kind of community that shows up in the hardest moments from medical crises to marital collapse and everything in between. They revisit seasons of fear, loss, and uncertainty, including Paula’s HIV needle-stick scare and the painful surgeries that tested Jase and Missy’s resolve. The conversation builds to the powerful “even if” faith of Daniel 3 — trusting God not only when He delivers what we ask for, but even if He doesn’t. In this episode: 1 John 2, verses 3–6; 1 John 3, verses 16–24; 1 John 4, verse 10; Daniel 3, verses 16–18; John 17 “Unashamed” Episode 1277 is sponsored by: https://fastgrowingtrees.com — Get 20% your first purchase when using the code UNASHAMED at checkout. https://bravebooks.com/unashamed — Get 20% off with code UNASHAMED https://myphdweightloss.com — Find out how Al lost 80+ pounds. Schedule your one-on-one consultation today by visiting the website or calling 864-644-1900 and mention "AL" https://ruffgreens.com — Get a FREE Jumpstart Trial Bag for your dog today when you use promo code Unashamed! http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/ — Sign up now for free, and join the Unashamed hosts every Friday for Unashamed Academy Powered by Hillsdale College Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/at-home-with-phil-robertson/id1835224621 Listen to Not Yet Now with Zach Dasher on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or anywhere you get podcasts. Chapters: 00:00 Welcome John & Paula Godwin 04:20 Mia’s Surgery & Showing Up in Crisis 09:40 Paula’s First Impression  16:15 Marriage Collapse & Carrying Grace 24:30 Becoming Grandparents After Loss 30:50 Why Real Community Requires Commitment 37:40 Believe in Jesus & Love One Another 44:45 The “Even If” Faith of Daniel 3 52:30 Godwin’s Fishing Guide Life -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? First time. I'm in on the duck call room, but not over here. Speaking of insane. That's the crazy. That's the crazy. All right. So welcome back to Unashamed. I'm super excited. Two of the best people I know on planet Earth have joined Unashamed Nation. John, you've been here before, John and Paula Godwin. But Paula, your first time on Unashamed. It is.

I'm so bad. That's embarrassing. I did not know. I'm disappointed that it's taken so long. Well, we've tried. You know, Paula's a working girl. She's a woman of many careers, which we'll talk about that. I mean, I've insulted your husband many times, so I'm going to apologize for that.

He doesn't know what I'm taking to say. Okay. Because everywhere I go, because I've been out a lot here lately. So people, they ask you these questions. they're like, what about, you know, what about Sai? I mean, is he really is crazy? That's usually the first question. And I'm like, I get that almost every Q&A.

You have no idea. And they're like, what about Gawin? Is he still around? You know, how do you feel about Gawin? Can he say more than three words? Here's the insult because I say, oh, I love Gawin. I said, but I really love his wife. I say that every time.

Well, thank you. She's a special servant. She is. She is. And look, our relationship is, I mean, Paula was, she's seen our family at its most vulnerable occurrence when we were, because you have a medical background, and you can maybe describe that for us. Well, I'm a respiratory therapist.

Respiratory therapist. For about 35 years. Yeah. But you're also. But I don't do that. Now you're recovering. You're a recovering respiratory therapist. It's like me.

I said I'm a recovering pastor. Yeah. So, but when Mia, she had all her surgeries and all that, and it's like, it's one of those moments where you're like, we need a medical professional here. Because in our world, dealing with a special needs kid, in this case physically, you become the doctors. The doctor said that because they were, the worst thing we ever had to do is they put in a, maybe you know the official term. I can't remember. But it was some kind of device that was surgically put in her jaw with a screw. And you had to turn that screw.

Every day. Twice a day or twice a day. Twice a day. For like a month or two. Look, this is, I don't want to be graphic, but this was graphic. And it is literally moving her jaw forward. And you're doing that with a screwdriver. And it was not pleasant.

I mean, she was in pain, just pain off the charts. And, of course, I couldn't even do it as a, I mean, I just went. I thought I cannot inflict this much pain on my daughter without, like, getting nauseous. And I felt like I was going to throw up the idea. But Missy, she has, there's a side to my wife that is really tough as nails. And she's like, well, we got to do it. But the doctor said, because Ms. said, well, we're not medical professionals. And he's like, oh, yes, you are.

It's required when you have a kid with this condition. Because we couldn't drive to Dallas twice a day every day for weeks and have them do it. He's like, you're doing it. You stick the screwdriver in there and turn it. See one, do one. They showed you, and then you had to do it. So we were talking about who we were going to get. We basically wanted some comfort in the process.

And Paula, you were the first person Missy brought up, and I was like, perfect. And she was just such a wonder. Well, Paul and John came into our lives, which we'll tell a bit about the story when you guys first became Christians and into this world, our world. and you were the only, at that time, you were probably the only person

in any sort of medical profession in our inner circle. So it's funny because Paula's a restatory therapist, but she got the job of everything. Nurse, doctor, whatever. If it was anything medical, Paula got the call, you know, because she was the, you were the one. You were the one.

And what I love about is where Paula knew that she was doing or not, she acted like she did. Yeah. You know. Well, I told you that story just because it really wasn't, you basically just watched us do it,

but the comfort you provided just from a spiritual. And that's just her personal. And little things, the little ideas you had that made it, you know, you would bring her something, you know, it was like you were more concerned about the psychological impact. Because every time this rolls around, well, she just didn't want to go through it. I mean, it was agonite. It was literally just terrorizing. It was. And so I'm really grateful that you helped us through that.

I'm glad I could. And y'all had it under control. I was basically, like you said, moral support. But what parents, what a terrible thing. It was terrible for y'all to have to do that. Yeah, yeah. I was just glad I could be a small part of helping in any way. Yeah, well, it was a godsend, literally.

So when y'all came in here a minute ago, you caught the tail end of size appearance on the last. Oh, we heard him. Soon as I come in the door in the back, I can hear. I said, size fired up. So John is obviously, a lot of the people listening to a shame, listen to a duck hall room, which is John's podcast that he's on with size, so you get a steady dive back.

Oh, yeah, yeah. But he does get a certain level of excitement coming over here because this is like, this is what he wants to get his Bible on. Well, you come over here, you know how it works. Yeah. And you go over there and you're thinking, is this going to work? But look, tell us what you told in between this podcast.

The first thing I told you. Because we were talking about side. And I can remember me and you was out at the land work and that's where we hunt. That's what everybody called, you know, is just right down the road from Phil's House where we worked at that time. And we were coming back, and Sai was just coming on the scene. He hadn't arrived there yet. And, Jason, I guess you was kind of warning me.

You said, now my uncle's coming, and you're going to think he's funny, but he's really crazy. That's the most profound thing you've ever said. Now, did I nail that? And what's crazy is, Cy, now that we're going to. now that we know this dementia and Alzheimer's and all that is so prevalent in my family in that line because every sibling except for one had it. But it turns out, Sai was the normal one all along because he's... Well, with a caveat, because we didn't even realize, we did a whole podcast in about 10 minutes in it,

Sae, who read Al's notes for the podcast, which I did not, came up with a Greek word that Al had in his notes to find a special knowledge, which I found out after the podcast, was not in the notes. So I either made it up. I said, I do have some Greek words, but that's what he means special knowledge. I kept thinking, why is Al not addressing this? Because how do you address insanity? Sometimes with silence.

He said, no, it's in there. And I was thinking, no, exactly. It was so crazy. So that whole podcast, now that you know the secret behind the secret, he was right about knowledge because Jason had just done a whole podcast on it. So that's kind of where we went. Yeah, he was in the neighborhood. Wow.

So the first time that I met you guys, and I know I've shared this story before when John was on, Paula, but we haven't had you on it. So I want to get your take on it. So I get a call. I'm a young preacher. This is probably mid-90s, I guess. somewhere around. 96.

Yeah, 96. So I got a call from a mutual friend of ours, Tony, and he said, I've been sharing the gospel with my best friend, and, you know, he'd gone out to your dads, and you've told your story, how you first, you know, the drinking out of the sippy cup and all that stuff. And he said, and he's ready to be baptized. But he said, I just, I feel like somebody should, like, you know, make sure that he's doing it for the right reason, whatever, you know. So he lined it up for me.

But you were ready and y'all were going to do it. And so you come and Paula, you were with him. But you, like, you had an attitude. I do. And she's one who won't make a change. I know, exactly. And so what was funny was, so I'm just sharing, kind of going through, you know, asking John questions. And, you know, do you got to have any questions about what you're about to do?

And Paul is just sitting over there and she's not saying anything. But she just had a look about her like something. She wasn't happy. She wasn't sure about this. She wasn't sure about all this. And I didn't even address you. I mean, I met you when you first came in, but I thought, man, I don't know that. He's married to an old gal.

I don't know about her. And that, you know, that was my first impression. And I found out later that you had had like a bad experience in a church or something like that from somebody. And so you were like distrusting of the thing. Well, they had made it a condition to be baptized to join the church. It wasn't about your heart. Yeah. You know.

So, Al, spring is right around the corner, and it's time to get back outside and transform your yard with fast-growing trees. Well, fast-growing trees is America's largest and most trusted online nursery with thousands of trees and plants and over 2 million happy customers. You know, I've personally ordered some of the barrier trees, the Leland Cyprus. Al, you've got some fruit trees. Fast-growing trees has ever 6,000 plants to choose from, including fruit trees, privacy trees, flowering trees, shrubs, and houseplants. So whatever you're looking for, fast-growing trees helps you find the options that actually work for your particular climate, space, and lifestyle. Super easy to use. All you've got to do is just click, order, grow, and when they're alive and thrive guarantee, your plants will arrive happy and healthy.

Their plant experts can help you plan your landscape projects. They can help you choose the right plants for you, and they can also teach you how to care for them. Fast-growing trees makes it easy to get the yard you've been dreaming of and at a price that won't break the banks. So right now they have great deals on spring planting essentials up to half off on select plants and listeners to our show. Well, you guys get an extra 20% off your first order when using the promo code Unashamed at checkout. That's an additional 20% off for better plants and better growing at BassGraintrees.com using the code Unashamed at checkout.

Bass graintrees.com code Unashamed. Now's the perfect time to plant. Let's grow together. Use Unashamed to save the day. Offer is valid for a limited time. terms and conditions may apply. Like if you're going to a church and you want to join the church, then you had to be baptized to join the church.

It was never about your heart. It was about membership of that physical church. So you thought I was probably going to go down that road. Well, I thought here's somebody else saying. So she didn't say, so like, so I can't remember, I just remember the exact, how I said something to you, but I said something to you, and you were like, I'm not getting baptized. And I was like, okay.

And I was like, you don't have to give it. You're good. And so we baptized, John. And then later, of course, you never knew all this was going to happen. We wound up buying property across the street from one another. And for 16 years, we're next to our neighbors. And we become best friends. And then we look back and laugh at our initial meeting, which was me saying, I don't know about this old gal here.

She's a little lippy. She's that, which is what she's going to have on her Tuesday, right? Yeah. Well, I was in, actually in a Bible study with Kay after that and at Alice's every Tuesday night. And about two weeks later, I said, well, I'm ready to get baptized. And I told Kay that, and I said, can you baptize me? And Kay said, no. No, no, no, no, no, no.

She said, but one of my sons can, and you baptized me. Oh, really? Well, okay. Did you remember that? I didn't remember that. But you know why. Yeah, I mean, yeah, but it was 1997. It was a long time ago.

Here's the caveat, though, but guess who baptized Lisa? Paula. Me? Yeah. Well, Missy had her first one. Yeah, we talked about that on the podcast, which I don't know why we ever thought. It doesn't have to be a man to baptize somebody. It doesn't matter.

Well, I mean, here's a bunch of women from out of town coming in the weekend, and they're like, we're not leaving here. And it's the middle of the night. And I was out of town, and Miss is like, gulp. Let's do it. Yeah, let's do it. Well, and so what led to that? I'll just tell that story.

Because you know, they're filming this movie about me and Lisa as we sit here today. And y'all are in it. I don't know if you knew that or not. Oh, they have characters. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they're a big part of our life. Jack, Blatt. I don't know who it is.

I mean, I should say that. Maybe they cut you out of the script. Who knows? But you should be in it if you're not. But you guys were there, like the worst part of our lives. I mean, at least I completely fell apart. And Paula, you were the first person I called that morning when it all broke. And Lisa told the truth about what had been going on.

And John, I'd been sharing with John because I thought it was crazy. You're talking about insane this whole time because, you know, something's going on in your marriage, and you don't know what's happening. And so John became like my guy to just vent to mostly and just listen. But you were there, you like took the torch for Lisa when I couldn't do it. I mean, I was done. You know, I just couldn't do anything. I was just completely shut out and shell shot.

And you stepped in and really just maintained that loving relationship in spite of where she was and what she had done, which was so important to me. And I've told you this before, but I mean, if that didn't happen in that interim, you know, she wouldn't have become the woman that she is and submitted to Christ and made the life change. So in that process of you and some other sisters here in our community that walked with her and guided her and, you know, were just an example. Because that's, she had to have grace from somewhere. She wasn't getting it from me, you know, because I had none to give. But between the Almighty and you guys, y'all carried that period of time.

And so when she finally made her full decision to come to Christ, you know, you were there in that moment. So, you know, from my perspective, and that, by the way, that's the heart of the movie, which is a lifetime movie. But, I mean, I'm so excited that we're going to get to show that, you know. It's hard to show the parts that were leading up to it. But the same time, unless you know the bad, you don't really understand the good. And we were still young Christians, too. I mean, it would be at just the right time. Yeah.

It was my first real experience with saying, okay, this, now she's not my friend. Yeah. She's my sister in Christ. Like, I have to love her, like he loved the church. Yeah. Like, you have to separate that emotional. Yeah.

Because you were just as wounded as I was. Right. And shocked and everything. But I was the first time I knew. that you have to love them, not as your friend, not as your whatever, as your sister and Christ. The same grace you would show a fellow Christian you don't have a relationship with. At least that much grace. Right.

At least that much. Yeah. Which is hard to do when you love somebody that you've been wounded by or even your kids. Yeah. It's the hardest thing to do in that situation. But I'm like, okay, I've got to separate myself. now, and she's my sister in Christ, no matter what. Yeah.

And show her that grace. Right. And we just picked up the torch and walked on. And she wound up living with you guys while we were split up, which made it convenient for our family because she's still trying to help take care of the kids. And we eventually put it all back together. But, you know, just since you're both on the podcast, again, I just want to say that to be there with somebody in the...

and walk through that in the worst part of their life. I mean, there's a bond there that will last in into eternity. So I'm grateful God brought you into my life that night, even though you were sitting over there like a blowfish. We're not wondering, wondering what was going on with this guy. Oh, my gosh. She's a little. So tell us about you guys have a lot of exciting things going on.

Your grandparents now. Yep. So tell us about that, how awesome that is. You've got twins. Twins. Identical twins. It's been scary and crazy and wonderful at the same time. All the, I mean, does that sum it up?

Well, I mean, we went through five miscarriages, so finally, you know, you're happy, but you're still scared. Yeah. It's just going to go all the way, but anyway. We tried real hard not to let the devil still out. our joy. Like, Johanna talked about that a lot. You know, like, I'm not going to let him steal my joy. I'm going to enjoy every moment as much as I can, you know.

And then her health wasn't good, and we got through that, and it was scary. I mean, it was emergency C-section, emergency surgery, you know. And then the babies ended up in N.I, but they were fine. Yeah. And now we're, you know, Joanna just said yesterday, she said, Mama, the girls are going to be two months old this week. She said, I feel like it's been 10 years. Because they're up every two hours.

They're feeding to. They're doing two. We go on Friday nights and spend the night and take the night shift and let them catch up on sleep. Oh, yeah. Because he's still working and, you know, she said, it's been the longest two months of my life. You know. Welcome to Mother. Right.

But she loves it, and they're great. They're great parents. They're truly. You know, we were talking about with Si about how you know there's a God. And since we're so close and literally raised our families across the street from each other, you know, me, I have to watch it. I'll get emotional talking about Johanna. But we, watching her from the little girl to the young woman and then to the wife and now the mom,

It's just, I mean, the hand of God has just been so providential through that whole process. Because y'all adopted Joanna because you couldn't have kids. But that whole thing was just amazing. And she was a – how was she when y'all adopted? I went in delivery with her. Okay, yeah, so from the beginning. But she was just – this kid – there's ADHD in the dictionary. It's this kid.

There's her picture. And so, I mean, like off the chains with all the way she was. And yet, at the same time, there's just something endearing always about her to us. And, of course, almost like being her godparents, I guess. And when she graduated high school, she got the largest scholarship that night at the head of graduation. And I just sat there and wept. I mean, I just, it was just such a grace moment to see how great God is. So what a treat now to get to see her be a mom.

She truly is wonderful. A wonderful woman. She's 32. So she's not, I mean, she, I mean, she writes. She gives all the glory to God about everything. She, like, will call in a stressful situation. And she calls, and she doesn't ask for advice. She asks us to pray over over the phone.

Like, she truly, truly, truly got. grounded in Jesus in this village that we were right. God blessed us with. And she gets it. Yeah. And now her husband got it. So he was worse than Paula's first meeting. Hey, what?

So Jay's recent on the podcast, we've been talking a lot about standing firm in our faith. And, you know, that's something we want to pass along to our kids and our grandkids in the next generation as well. And that's why we love brave books. They help parents build strong families by teaching kids about courage and forgiveness, fruit of the spirit, and it's written in stories that they love to read and listen to. Plus, every book includes discussion, questions, and games so the whole family can talk through these truths together. Missy, of course, wrote one of the books. She did.

I mean, there's a reason God wrote a book to communicate with humans. Exactly. So hers is called Because You're My Family, which is a great book about unconditional love. Jeff and Jessica also have a book called Dear Valor, which is an awesome story about adoption and what it means to be chosen. So great biblical truths. We're all brave families. We love it.

We love what they're doing. When you subscribe, you'll get a brand new book every month and a free bonus bundle, plus the two books written by our family for free. So you're getting a great head start. Let's raise brave, unashamed kids in a confusing world. Go to bravebooks.com slash unashamed. Use the code unashamed to get 20% off your first order. That's bravebooks.com slash unashamed code unashamed for 20% off.

We had a house church at that time at our house, and he came the first time, and he was sitting over there in the corner. He wouldn't say anything to anybody. And he was on his phone the whole time. And it kind of made me mad. I was kind of like, this guy, like, he's just ignoring us on his phone. But what he was doing was he was fact-checking everything I was saying. He was like, looking to stuff up.

in the Bible or online or whatever. And I didn't know that at the time. And you're like, you're back in. Well, I liked that once I heard it later. But then I met him and I just wasn't sure about him. And I told John and Paul, I was like, I don't know. You know, I just don't think this guy's going to work out. You know, and so I was not high on him at all early.

But now, I mean, watching him, it's just almost like watching Johanna, but watching his spiritual journey. And the first time he won me over, it was quite a, bit into their relationship. But she got real sick and was in the hospital. And that man never left. Remember, he was there the whole time? And I was like, well, there's something to this.

I mean, there was like, that was a chance if he was just a flake where he would just bail because they weren't, you know, they weren't married or anything. And he didn't. Like, he stepped in the gap and was there for. And I thought, well, there's some depth here. I'm not, I didn't see in this man. And boy, was I ever right about that? finally to see that because he is a very deep man, a deep man now, a man of faith, and just,

I love him to death. And they've been coming to the marriage retreat, which is the first year they won't be able to go in a while because of the babies. But just having conversations with them now as a married couple, as people who really get it with Jesus. I mean, it's very, it's inspiring, you know, so. It is. And he, true. I mean, he reads and listens and studies, and he's very intellectual, very intelligent, very, I mean, he's a bill, he's intelligent and he deeply studies. And so he's, I always thought, well, if we could ever get him, get it to his heart, if his heart can be fricked, he'll, he can really do great things.

Because he's one of these guys that just, like a lot of people out there, just had no input of it into his life until, you know, he met her and met you guys and met us. And so like, where would he get it from, you know? I mean, there's just a lot of people are like that until they find someone who knows about Jesus. But I do think it's a great discussion for why you need community in your life, just us talking about this. Because who knows when you're going to need that point, Jason is it with me, these crossovers where you have people that walk through the hard stuff with you. There's one thing to see somebody at church and give them a nod, how's it going? Oh, it's going great.

And walking out the door, that's not really community. That's just like we all meet there and we're listening. But communities when you're screwing the thing in the back of the jaw, when you're at the hospital, you know, all that stuff. Yeah, when you're showing up for the hard times, day in and day out, and you can't get that casually. I mean, it is hard to get that because it takes commitment on both parts. That's one of the things we talk about as a family.

As a family is a two-way street. You can't just be a taker. You have to be a giver. I mean, you've got to show up. to receive, you know. Right. I mean, so teaching them, you know, that her as a young child and as a young adult to be the person that shows up, you know. And you have to surround yourself with good people.

It makes me think, we've been studying first John. And I pointed out a couple of podcasts ago, how many times he says about knowing him or what you've come to know, is how you know you have this fellowship with the father and the son the holy spirit's kind of a deep concept but it just comes up over and over again but i want to make a point here over what we're discussing and i read this with uh when we had saum but when first john two three says we know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands the man who says i know him but doesn't do what he commands is a liar and the truth is not in him and this is kind of one of the themes that keeps coming up.

Of course, when you read that, you tend to think, oh, it's some kind of rule-oriented system, kind of like your first concerns. But he gets all the way to chapter three, and he kind of defines what this means about his commands. And what I found fascinating when I read this is when he gets down to the two things that he highlights about these commands. we tend to only highlight one of them, and I want to read it. And this is 1 John 321.

It says, Dear friends, if our hearts condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask because we obey his commands. Well, there it is again, and do what pleases him. And then he just kind of stops and has a moment and says, and this is his command. This is verse 23 of chapter 3. To believe in the name of his son, Jesus Christ. Well, that's the one we highlight.

But he adds another thing along the equivalent. There's two things. And to love one another as he commanded us. So to me, that's just so profound that like, oh, well, everybody's got to believe in Jesus, which is true. And we also love one another. which is almost just as difficult. I'd say maybe more. Especially when we're not lovable.

But then it says, so those who obey us commands live in him. And you're like, what were those two commands again? To believe in His Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another. Those who obey these commands live in him. And he and them. And this is how we know that he does live in us. We know it by the Holy Spirit. he gave us.

And I just thought, man, that what we've been discussing, and we've said love for one another, and we were there in our most vulnerable times, and you talked about Johan, you're getting tear it up. But all this is the equivalent. It's not just, okay, you need to believe in Jesus, and, you know, might ought to love one another and try to figure that out. It's inseparable. Yeah.

Because he has invited us into this complex God. who has this love that was going on before the creation of the world. He says that in John 17, and then invited us to participate in that. And this is just what it looks like. You start loving like Jesus did, which is why he's the most famous person that ever walked the earth. And you just look at all those conversations

and all those encounters he had. And you're like, man, this guy seems to have a love for people that is just not of this world. And so I think this is what it looks like. It's not at this world. It's not. Bill Smith used to call it. Remember, he coined the phrase the first, or I guess he coined it.

He was the first time I heard anybody say it. He called it forever family. And that's that concept of family we understand, although a lot of times people's family situations are not good. You don't grow up in a good situation. I mean, you don't get to pick that, right? I mean, it picked you because you're born into a situation. It could be bad.

The first few years of mine in Jesus life, it was bad. But then the idea of forever family, is always good because it's a choice you get to make about community and people that bless your life and you bless their life. And so it really is a completely different concept. But you're right, Judge, faith without love just can become very cold.

Well, and I think that's why he says all these verses that are hard to wrap your head around when he, the one in 16 of chapter 3, when he said, this is how we know what love he is. Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. And then he says in chapter four in verse 10, this is love, not that we love God.

And people are kind of offended by that because we're like, well, I love God. But it says, but that he loved us and sent his son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. And you're like, why is he phrasing it like that? And I think just look at all the details of the stories we just said. I mean, your daughter gave birth to twins and everybody's happy. But it happened after five miscarriages.

We had that experience. My wife had two miscarriages. I mean, there's nothing. That is very difficult to overcome twice and five times. And you start looking at Jesus' life and what he did in his love. But things didn't go well here. I mean, people were trying to kill him. He didn't have a house.

He had to borrow a coin just to do an illustration. They were accusing him all this. He was the son of God. They had to go fishing just to pay his taxes. Remember they had the one that was in the... And I think there's something to our lives being just stripped down when just everything is taken away from you. And you're just like, oh, I mean, you're at the bottom

where all of a sudden God does some of his best things in your life. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think there's something about understanding what, real love is in those moments. And so I think we all, even the story I was telling about me, I mean, that was the worst of those 21 years of surgeries and every six weeks going to a doctor. I mean, you saw the, that was kind of just at the point of, are we, this is what we're doing?

Remember, I kept saying that? I was like, this is the plan? I got a screwdriver over my daughter's mouth and physically moving her jaw, And, you know, with blood and excruciating pain. Yeah, it was terrible. We had Gobwin on the podcast, man, he has joined me in the Ph.D. Quest, and he's looking quite spelt. We had what's left of Godwin on the podcast.

But, you know, you get to this point in your life where you're like, you know you need to do something. And so you try all these different diets. I've tried them all. And you start thinking, it's like, well, you know, I just have a motivation problem or have a discipline problem. And that may be true. but that's not all it is. It's not just that. You have to understand how metabolism works.

And what I love about Ph.D. weight loss is they understand the science of burning your fat. Here's a picture of me at the beginning of my journey. And here I am 80 pounds lighter. Obviously doing much better. Lisa can't keep her hands off of me. So, you know, that's a good thing. No more CPAP machine. My meds are almost, I'm completely off of almost everything.

And it just feel a lot better. So I want you to check it out. if you know you've been wanting to get there, I'm just giving you that encouragement. If you call now, they'll give you two free weeks in the program, and they pay for your food. So you can finally see real results without all the trial and error. If you're done with yo-yo dieting and you want clarity, call PhD weight loss now and mention Al. No more guessing, just answers. You can call 864-644-1900 and say, Al.

That's 864-6-44-1900, or visit my PhD-D weight loss. But having said that, I look at her today and I think, oh, boy, all of that, you know, love and community and pain and stripping down, you're like, okay, God had a plan in this. Well, I remember it seemed like it was in the first year when you guys connected with us, I think it was when in the first year that you had gotten a needy, needle stick, because back then you were a restwear therapist at the hospital and from an AIDS patient. HIV, the height of HIV.

Yeah, that's back when it was really, you know, back 80s and 90s. And I just remember, and that happened really quickly. And, I mean, we were all so scared until you could get tested and all that stuff or even wondering was it going to show up at some other point. Do you remember that? Yeah, yeah. I was on my 30th birthday, actually, and we were just Christians. and I got, it was a code situation and I got stuck,

which happens when you're rapidly doing things in an emergency situation sometimes, unfortunately. But I just kept doing and then found out right after that that this was an HIV positive patient. And it was at the height. We had, matter of fact, as a staff, because I worked in the ER, had just read an article where a surgeon had gotten,

cut himself during surgery, and the patient was HIV. HIV positive and he cut his thumb off because it was that unknown at that time how it spread. And so we had just had that conversation reading that article as a, you know, just, and so, it's like, whoa, this is very, who knows. And so I had to go through all, you know, the stuff and take the AIDS medicine and go through testing and all that. That night we went to church.

It was on Wednesday, so we went to church and was Bill Smith's class. And I just, we got there early, and I went up to him, and I said, I just want you to pray over me, if you would real quick, before class starts. And I told him what happened. And in the middle of class, he just stops class, and he puts us in the, he says, we got to stop. This is an urgent situation. Like, I want to do a prayer request. And he put me in the middle of the class, and he had everybody circle me and put hands on me and pray over me,

which was powerful to me at that moment, you know. And it was the first time I experienced, like I knew, okay, my biggest fear was for other people's children or, because we didn't know how it spread. You know, like, I didn't know if you drank after me. Could you get it or could your kids get it from me? That was my biggest concern at that, but I didn't. And you're right. We forget how when you don't understand something. It was the same thing as COVID.

It's COVID. Exactly. That's what I thought about it. Same. There's more mystery. than what you knew. That's right. Yeah.

But you know it was deadly, right? It was deadly, but we didn't know anything at that point. But it was the first time I experienced, I had extreme confidence after Bill Smith did that, that no matter what happened, if I had HIV or didn't, I was going to be fine. Like, I knew that God had a plan, whatever happened, I was going to follow him, trust, him, obey him, and whatever it would be would be, but I would be fine. I had never experienced that much peace about anything before that. And it came from a prayer and the idea that people were with you, right?

I mean, the surrounding- Community and the knowledge of God's love, that I knew he loved me, I knew his best interest for me, was real, this was real, this was not fake, that this was a real thing, real love, a real person, and that I had a community that would help me. And so I was, I wouldn't say scared. I worried about it just because I tried to be real careful about my contact with anybody until we knew. And I had to be tested for years until I was sure.

Yeah. I just, I mean, it stood out to me because I just remembered us being so close to you guys that that was just the first of many, many tests through our lives and raising our kids of different things where that came to be, whether it's what we described what Lisa and I went through and other things, just raising our kids, being scared about different situations. That's what forever family's about.

I've been on this for a while to the point of, we had the lead singer for Mercy Me on our podcast, because they made a second movie to, I can only imagine, called Even If, which was their second most popular song. So they kind of got a thing going. They have a great song, and then they make a movie about how that came about. And so I brought this up three or four times because I've listened to that song about a thousand times,

but I'll just share personally why. Because, you know, I had heard that song before, but I didn't know it was based on scripture, which is embarrassing. But it comes from Daniel 3. And it's just two words, you know. even if. It's the Shadrach, Meshak, and Abendigo story.

Yeah, it is that story. But the reason I became so obsessed with it and even had him on the podcast, when I really thought about what I'm fixing to read, I thought, I see a weakness here in my faith. I'm not sure I have this kind of faith.

I need to work on this. So I've listened that song a thousand times because it makes me think of this story. And I think it's why it's in the Bible. But it describes what you, you just got through saying. What you felt, it describes that moment. So I have to read this. So this is Daniel 3 in verse 16, Shadrach Mishik and Abednego, replied to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar. We do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. And just to give you the context of it,

he's worshiping other gods. And he's like, this is what we're doing. All knees will be. bow. So as they're doing this, somebody looked over there and saw these three fellas, they're not bowing. And he's like, bring them here, heat up the furnace. Because I made a decree, you're bowing. We'll show you what happens to people that don't bend the knee. And so there's a confrontation. So this is the confrontation. So verse 17, they said, if we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to save us from it. So, they had that right. They're like, kind of like, we're not worried about this because God is able.

And here's where the song came from, verse 18. But even if he does not, we want you to know we will not serve your gods or worship the image of God you've set up. And so you see how that that kind of faith is like, we know God is able and he's going to take care of us and he cares for us. But if he chooses not to, we're still not going for your God. We're going to trust in the Almighty God.

Of course, then that kind of faith produced a wonderful miracle because they put them in the furnace after they turned it up seven times hotter than normal. Even the guards were burned, burned up, putting them in there. And then he looks down, oh, the king, and like, I thought you put three of them guys in there. kind of had two questions. Why are they, why are they not burning up? And who's the fourth guy? And who's

the fourth guy in there? Who's the fourth guy? Somebody showed up. I mean, it's a powerful, powerful thing. And that's why I made the whole point about sometimes we have to be stripped down and we suffer. And God allows that to happen for this, for his love to truly come out and be this testimony to the world that, Oh, I'm not absent. I'm here going through this with you, and we'll come out on the other side. And if you look at that story in the historical context of Israel, you know, I mean, here we are waiting on the Messiah to come and it's been talked about and prophesied. And in this period of time, these fellows, along with Daniel and others from Israel, or have been taken out of their country into captivity into another country. So you're talking about the lowest of the lows.

You didn't even have your own country. I mean, you're literally not even occupied. You've been removed from your own country. And so you're in somebody else's country and you're not playing ball. And so that was their whole setup. And this went on for many, many decades before Israel was restored to then continue the idea. So when you look at it from historical context, it was the worst of the worst of the worst. And yet you see the best of people of faith.

And that's really what it's all about. I mean, that's a faith that I thought I need to work on this. That's pretty good. Because when we're praying, you know, I'm like, okay, I know God, we fixed to do this. But, boy, the even-if part, I need to work on that. Even if he doesn't, he's going to use this, you know, for a greater purpose. So, Jace, what's the best thing about your dogs? What do they bring to you that's very valuable?

They are my security apparatus. If somebody they don't know pulls up. And they're not like guard dogs because they're very tiny. They're little, but they give you that. Don't underestimate them. Well, all of us love our pets for different reasons. They bring love to us in many ways, and they show up for us, right? As dogs get older, they're a little slower, a little pickier, and suddenly their

stomachs are just off. Traditional dog food is missing probiotics. It's missing enzymes. oil's live vitamins and minerals that your dog needs to absorb food. Rough Greens is America's number one dog supplement. You sprinkle it right on your food. It's right here in front of Jays. It's packed with all the live nutrients that they need.

Plus, it's all natural. It's made right here in the good old U.S. of A. Rough Greens is helping dogs feel younger, more energetic, and healthier than they have in years. Your dog could be one of them. So I give it to my dogs every day when they get their food. And I've noticed they have more energy. Their coats are shinier. It's definitely a great product.

We want you to check it out. Get a free jumpstart trial bag for your dog. You just cover the shipping. Go to roughgreens.com. Use the discount code, unashamed. Rough greens. We make any dog food better. Well, and that's why, you know, generationally, it just keeps going.

That's the beauty of you guys now, now that you're grandchildren and you're seeing that thing go forward. You start realizing that, you know, we're only are here. for such a short time. I mean, and the impact. And, of course, Paula, you've been there

helping us with mom, you know, and dad when he was, you know, at the end. And you just realize that, man, this thing goes fast.

I mean, it's like, you know, the same with us and you guys, and parents and passings. And it just goes,

and it goes. And you get rid of us, if we don't have an eternal, you know, clutch into this thing, you can, it just goes so quickly.

You can just miss the whole point. because it goes by so fast. Well, it's a testimony to y'all's growth, though, because when difficult situations arise, y'all show up. You all are around. And I always think that, you know, back in my duck call days, there's duck call competition, which is how you came to the Lord,

you know, over a duck call competition. Duck hunters show up. I always think about that with Missy. She's a singer, and I've been at so many things. And just looking at it from her perspective, I thought, yeah, something good, some worship's fixed. happen. Well, she's around. But you see people of faith who God uses, and they show up in these difficult times, and y'all have been there, you know, time and time again, which I think is

very noble, and we're appreciative for. And then, of course, Godwin worked for Doug Commander for how many 25 years? 25 years. Now, are you officially retired? Because people are saying that. They're like, he's retired from Duck Commander, but he's not retired from working. Yeah. Jason said yeah. Paula's reminding him about it. So tell us our audience, because I know your audience knows, but what about this? There was a secret joke in there because I resigned from Duck Commander and I can't leave.

They keep pulling me back in. Well, I mean, I still do the podcast, but yeah, I'm fishing. My other passion besides hunting was fishing. And dad got me doing that. And so now I'm crappy fishing guide. Full time. Godwin guides. Godwinguides.com.

That's right. So you go out there, they're looking for a good time on the water. Oh, yeah. We have a great time. People say, well, you don't get to fish no more. But watching people, I look, you can take the grumpiest old man, him get a fish on his line, and he smiles all the way to his ears. Especially when you're catching the greatest freshwater fish.

fish and they're tasty. Mine them from heaven, but. Yeah, that's what John calls them. That's excellent. But now you've got to eat at grill because you're doing Ph.D. Well, I was going to say when you walked in, because my thought was it's mini-Godman. Godwin. Godman is the new Al because he is taking the Ph.D challenge this year.

I talked to my fat counselor today, and she said, I just talked to Godvin this week. And I said, really, so Heather is both of her. I mean, you've got to be over a bag of corn, which is 50 pounds. He's over two? Since he started all this, yeah, and he's fixing to go down another 50. I don't know. We'll say how far you. You sound like me because I'm right at the end, and they want me to do,

because it has to do with your body mass and there's a number everybody's looking for. I couldn't believe the number she said. I know. I said, what? Is that awesome? But you lost 100 pounds. That's incredible. Yeah.

I mean, that's like a high school kid. I mean, are you back to bull, right? No. You got to remember. When you rode bulls and then you ride motorcycles? Motorcross, yeah. And you survived all that. God had a plan.

Yeah. I mean, those are, I think, two of the dangerous things you can actually get up on. His joints and body didn't survive it so well. Yeah. But, yeah, he's, I mean, he's. Is that why you married a medical professional? Exactly. Paula's always been the constant motivating.

Is she in there like, what's going to be on her two stow? She's a lot. She's a lot. She's a lot. Paula God when she was a little leippy. A little what? Lipby. Lipy.

Well, she's a firecrack. That's one of my favorites. I would call her more of a bottle rocket. But you need, what I've noticed is the same thing about my wife. Okay, she's a firecracker. But you need that firecracker. When things go wrong. I mean, when my wife has a certain look, and I thought, yes, this is made up for those 10 times that I thought, how can we contain this explosion?

Yeah. It's necessary. It's necessary. It likes us better. Not all situations. It's funny because, me knowing John of Paul's so well, we spent so much time together back in the day. And Paul would get going on him. And John, you know, he's pretty much just take whatever listening.

And then he'd get, he's like a rubber band. He'd reach a point when do Paul had to snap back him. You know, Paul, I've never seen that side of you, which is crazy. I've heard about it. Oh, it's there. But I thought, what are you crazy? She's just always kind and gentle every time of all right. I can be pretty blunt.

I mean, when I, my daughter, she's like, always, you know, like, can count on me to be honest about. And sometimes I have to watch, work on the delivery of that honesty, because if it's not wrapped in love, who's going to listen to it? But it is, Paula. I had a dad like that. You did. Paula's been that in my life and Lisa's life, she's been that person for us. And I've always appreciated that, Paula,

because that kind of friend is the one you rely on for your whole life, the one they'll tell you the truth, even when you're wrong. Well, it's true. And I've been there, too. The reason I would take up for you and the reason I took up for my dad because I knew his heart. And I think that's the reason my dad got away because he was way more blunt with perfectly strangers about their life. And I thought, I cannot believe he is saying this out loud in this environment. But he just seemed to get away with it because I think there was something about his heart that was coming across in this confrontation about their life.

You knew his motives were pure. That's right. Yeah. His motive was pure. His motive was pure, but I was thinking they don't know his motive. But somewhere in there, I think they felt it was. They do. Yeah.

Well, they knew it was right. Yeah. Well, I mean, you had that experience. I mean, it was hard to work for my dad because he did have that edge to him. And you've had like at least four careers. Yeah. So you work for an energy business now. Were you guys like in crazy land with the ice storm and all that stuff?

Or how was that? Well, we're industrial and commercial. So while we were out supporting the facilities that support customers, like Entergy Corporation. And we're a banister electric. We're a construction company. We were out supporting the people so they could support their customers. Because their facilities had damage. Oh, yeah.

And their trucks couldn't even get out of the ice. over parking lots. And they're, you know, like the gas energy transfer, Kinder Morgan, all those places, their facilities had problems. So the men that worked for the, were out getting their stuff up so they could take care of their customers. It was a...

Well, I'll tell you one thing. So I bought my generator from the company you worked for six years ago, and that's the best money I ever spent, because my life didn't change that much except I had everybody. Your house became the hub. It was the hub. Everybody showed that. Danny has a resident.

Yeah, he does that. Yeah, he does that. What I found, what I found fascinated in you sharing that is like your job careers are they like, it's like an earthly, heavenly connect. We talk about that a lot. Yeah. The podcast about them being connected because they reflect your two spiritual qualities which is you provide healing in a lot of situations through love,

and you're a powerful person. You bring the energy. You bring the power. There's your bottle rocket. What will I am saying? Bring the energy. That's what you do. That's what you're doing.

Well, I like working in, I think, different environments, you know, involving people in any aspect, but where you have to think outside the box or do whatever you've got to do to make something work or figure out something. Yeah. And that's why I've said this many times before, Paula. When you're working with Paula Gawain, at some point you'll be working for Paula Gawain. And that's what I – she winds up running wherever she's at. Is that not true?

She always becomes the person. That means you're good at what you do. All right. That went fast. We're all the time. Wow. Paula, you're always welcome back to Onasham. I'm sorry, I took this long to get you on it.

And you too, John, now that's your fishing guy. I'm right next door. We love you guys. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.