Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1283 | The Robertsons Expose the Dark Side of Success That Few People Talk About

Episode Date: March 5, 2026

Jase, Al, and Zach reflect on how their unique experiences around success have given them a front-row seat to the dark side of it—the jealousy and rivalry that often go unspoken but have been damaging families since the beginning of time. Using the story of Cain and Abel, the guys explore how envy can quietly grow into bitterness, division, and even hatred. The conversation highlights the powerful contrast between Abel’s blood demanding justice and the blood of Jesus offering mercy. In this episode: Genesis 4, verses 1–12; Exodus 32, verses 1–35; Matthew 23, verses 33–36; Hebrews 11, verse 4; Hebrews 12, verse 24; 1 John 3, verses 11–18; James 3, verses 13–16; James 5, verse 16; Proverbs 6, verses 16–19; Revelation 12, verse 11 “Unashamed” Episode 1283 is sponsored by: https://rocketmoney.com/unashamed — Join Rocket Money and let them help you reach your financial goals faster. https://ponchooutdoors.com/unashamed — Get $10 off your first order and free shipping! http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/ — Sign up now for free, and join the Unashamed hosts every Friday for Unashamed Academy Powered by Hillsdale College Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! https://open.spotify.com/show/3LY8eJ4ZBZHmsImGoDNK2l Listen to Not Yet Now with Zach Dasher on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or anywhere you get podcasts. Chapters: 00:00 The Mesmerizing Microwave 03:05 Miss Kay’s Bird Sanctuary 06:10 Duck Sausage Debate 13:40 Parenting Lessons Take Time to Work 17:10 Message From the Start: Love One Another 21:05 Cain, Abel & The Hidden Sin of Jealousy 31:40 Abel’s Blood vs. Jesus’ Blood: Justice or Mercy 44:20 A Shocking Testimony of Redemption — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. We often say this, but we obviously record a couple episodes when we get together, so we just finished the last episode. And we all have to take a little nature call breaks. Jace went into that quite vividly on the last podcast of what happens when you're in the middle of a field. But there was a girl standing down there, Jase. There's a lot of young girls that work. I'm assuming they work for Sadie, but I'm assuming they work for Sadie, but I'm sorry. I don't know. Maddie, did you know that person standing at the microwave? So she's standing there and she's just looking. She's got some food in the microwave.

And she's just standing there just, you know, looking at it. And so I walked by her and she didn't even look up. And so I said, you know that a watch microwave will not produce hot food. A watch? A watched microwave. Oh, a watched. Watched. And it's a playoff.

The old saying, a watch pot never boil. Remember that when you stand there and watch a pot? This is the first I've heard of this. So I said, have you ever heard of that? The original saying is a watch pot never boils. And she said, no, I've never heard of that. And I said, but you're standing there looking at the microphone. And she said, it's mesmerizing.

Oh. And I said, yeah, I guess you're right. I said, you know, you're watching it and it's literally heating your food from the inside out. I said, how does that work? She said, I don't know, but I can. can't look away. So then I just left it at that. And then when I left, she never said it away.

There's got to be some spiritual applications there, Al. We have the Holy Spirit inside out, maybe. Because you look at it, you know, microwave, course, I never liked to stand in front of one because that thing's like radiation, isn't it? This is so funny that I was having this conversation with Miss yesterday, the things I've been sharing. Because look, every time I told her this story about running across the field yesterday, you know, what her response was. Don't tell that on the podcast.

Gase, do not tell that on the podcast. Zach, does this sound familiar about the last thing you tell somebody is don't say that? Oh, I know where he got it from. We got off the plane. Remember that's OPR? A couple of podcasts ago when I told about the woman who had an odor problem, I was not making fun of the woman at all. I was just saying it was kind of weird that I think.

think she was writing in first class. So you're thinking, it's not that she doesn't have the money to buy the odor. She's just chosen not to wear it to the suffering of all others. And we get off that plane. And I'm like, whoa, boy, I'm glad that's over. And she said, do not share that on the podcast. What did you do at the very next stage? I didn't mean to.

You brought it up as a sign. But what I was going to say is yesterday I'm having a conversation. Well, you realize by telling me the first thing I'm going to do is ask her about these stories. No, she won't know. Look, don't do it, Al. It's going to be bad for me. I'm telling you, I'm like you, once you tell me I can't do it, that I'm like, I got to do it. I got to hear what she is.

I went and visited Mom, and so I walked in the door. I figured she's sitting there watching TV. What else she's going to be doing? Nope, she wasn't there. And she saw me, and she's like, oh, you're just the guy. looking for. Come watch these birds. And I'm like, what?

She loves that back window at her house. Yeah, and she sits there, and they have put all these feeders out there. And look, ow, there were over 100 birds. I've seen it. It's a happening. I've never seen such a diverse group of birds in one setting as what she has with her. And I said, do you realize there are six doves there? And she said, if you shoot one of those doves, I'm going to be angry.

She already knew where I was going with that. I was like, oh, it looks like supper. And she's like, no, once they enter the bird feeding realm, they're safe because I want to watch them. But she said the same thing. I was like, well, do you do this all day? And she said, it's mesmerized. She actually mispronounce mesmerize, but that's a tough word. Such a mom thing to do.

That's a hard one. Yeah, she said it's memorizing. And I said, I think that's mesmerizing. She's like, same thing. I guess when you're mesmerized, you couldn't memorize. It's funny, you brought this up because I meant to tell you that I have been enjoying the fruits of your last two or three weeks of duck season when it was salvaged by the rally of the ice apocalypse that then brought you guys to kill a lot of ducks, all these full limits. Because Jay Stone did something he's never done before. where he took a lot of those ducks and turned them into duck sausage.

Oh, I, look, when he... And it's some of the finest thing I have ever eaten. When he, I'm going to be honest here. And I'm a duck hunter. You do get a tungsten every once in a while, you know. Well, but look, I told him, you can use my... Metal detector. My pinpointer.

Yeah. There's a device that's used in treasure hunting. And I'm like, why wouldn't that work? Now, you'd have to clean it up because you usually use it in the dirt. You're going to be getting dirt all over your sausage. But I'm like, wouldn't that, couldn't you take the sausage before you prepare it and just run that pinpointer over it? Now, you couldn't do it like if they're in a pan. Obviously, I'm stating the obvious because it's like, oh, they're shot all in these sausage.

But it'd be a great Duck Dynasty episode if we were still doing that. To double up, that's right, to take the treasure hunting apparatus and apply it to your duck sausage. But look, he does it with the mix of it had some onion in it and bell pepper and then two different kind of cheeses. But I think there's some jalapinas. And a little bit of jalapeno. It has a little bit of heat to it. But man, it is good. In fact, I think I like it more than deer sauces, which I didn't think was possible.

Well, see, I don't like doing that with deer, but they're doing it because they're shooting deer that are so big and these big old bucks. And then they're aging it. It's about the only way you can eat it. Well, right. And ducks are not, what I was going to declare is they're not very good to eat. No. As far as when you have a filet mignon. Yeah.

Well, you know, ducks have a mustiness. My dad used to say, there's a mustiness in there. He likes the mustiness, but me not so much. So I thought, I think you should try this sausage. Well, it was a brilliant plan because it is delicious. And it fits my piece. D diet, so I'm... I hadn't even tried it yet.

Oh, it's so good, Jay. The flavor is fantastic. Even Anna, who's, you know, kind of like most of our women when it comes to Wild Game, I mean, they're kind of, you know, like, they're not crazy about it, but she was like, Dad, this is better than

the deer sauces. I was like, really? And when she gave it the endorsement, I was like, okay, it's got to be good. Got piquity there. Yeah, you got to try it, Zach, next time you come down. And it was, I guess you I probably ate some of the ducks that you killed as well. I know he shot one mall or Drake.

I saw it. And that's all I needed to see. That may be the one I ate. I moved you substantially higher on the list after seeing that. He said, he acted like I'd never been duck cutting. This is what he says after I killed the ducks. First duck that came in, I will add. He goes, well, I'll be.

Zach Dasher shot that duck. today you have become a man How old are you saying? 48? That's not 48. Sometimes it takes a bit. It takes a bit. You arrive.

And my son's looking at me like, you're going to let him talk to you like that? And I'm like, this is every day, Bear. This is an exercise. Did you tell Bear, welcome to the Unashamed podcast. Oh, Bear and Jace hit it off. I mean, they were like, I mean, he's like, oh, I love Jace. I mean, he really spoke into me. What does that tell you?

Out of the mouth of Bade's wisdom happens. I'm like that. I learn a lot. I mean, look, I'm running around chasing a four-year-old. I had him this morning. But, you know, I learned a lot from this kid. And it's just, I think if I had a do-over, you know. If you've ever been like that, you're like, man.

I get to do it with just like you're doing this. With your grandkids, it's such a different thing. Last night. Sage had a project. She goes to a Christian school here, and she had a project to, I can't remember what the setup. Do your own podcast is what they're trying to get them to do, like a five-minute podcast.

And she decided to do one on dad, becoming a Christian and how he got on a podcast. And so that was her podcast. So Lisa films it on the iPhone, and Sage is asking me the questions. And so I'm the guest on her podcast. It was really interesting because it's kind of how the young people, now they see the internet, especially with all these stupid little videos,

but they say it as an opportunity to get expressed themselves. So I was glad it was being done in a spiritual format, you know. Yeah. And so she asked me about dad. And, you know, I talked a little bit. I would answer her questions and how did he get on the podcast? I said, well, he said he wanted to get out there in computer land is the way he viewed it. He said because he knew that the apostle Paul had access to the internet.

He'd be preaching the gospel. So, you know, I went through the little thing. thing with it. But then she went back in the closet. It's funny. So she does the thing there, but she goes back in the closet on her own with the camera and films her own little intro of the podcast. You know, you see all the clothes back behind her and she's like, you know, I'm about to do my podcast. And so it was her cold open. Yeah. It was back in the closet and she comes out and then she, you know, puts it all together on the thing, which is amazing because like, you know, Maddie and all the people here, Swiss Army Knife and the other ones, they do all

stuff like that. I couldn't, I don't even know how to, could you do any of the, what's done to put us on the internet? Would you know anything about that? Oh yeah, I'd call some money. He's going to look as bad. But that's officially getting it done. So I used to spend a lot of time trying to manage my finances before rocket money. I actually doubt that I have all that extra time on my hand. It gives me time to spend my kids, my family. And what I noticed when I signed up for rocket money was that I had multiple subscriptions that we had paid more than, we were paying more than once for them. Now that I have rocket money, I get notifications anytime that happens. In fact, just yesterday I noticed that my wife had three different subscriptions for the same exact

service where she was ordering vitamins. And I was like, why do we have three of these? I made a mistake. So I got rocket money on the case and they can cancel those unwanted subscriptions for you. What rocket money is, it's a personal finance app that helps you find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions. It also helps you monitor your spending and it helps you lower your bills so that you can grow your savings. And I love it because I can see all of my subscriptions in one place, including the ones I forgot about. And if I see something I don't want, like what just happened yesterday, Rocket Money can help me cancel it. So Rocket Money has a dashboard that gives me a clear view of all my expenses across all my accounts with automatic transaction,

categorization, and tags that show my spending patterns. I can also create a personalized budget to help keep my spending on track. Plus, their goals features can help you determine what time a month is best to put a little extra money aside. Rocket Money will even try to negotiate lower bills for you. They deal with the customer service team so you don't have to. So let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join at RocketMoney.com slash Unashamed.

That's RocketMoney.com slash Unashamed. RocketMoney.com slash Unashamed. Missy and I have had a few pretty heated discussions over this because I'll say she'll ask me to do something well I'll call somebody and she's like well I could have done that I was like but you didn't you asked me I called somebody that I handled it that is handling that's right you delegate yeah but I was

talking about little man yeah I'm in a strange situation because I'm kind of like a grandparent role. And so, you know, with my kids, and I've learned a lot, I don't know why Zach's saying this about his son, you know, it just made me think about this. Because it's a weird role in that, I mean, I didn't give birth to this kid. I mean, it's kind of a weird circumstance where I find myself.

And so I'm like, well, I'm never going to, like, do what I did with my kids, like, whoop his butt. or anything like that. Well, it's very hard to get. Because it didn't belong to you, but in a way, Jay's, it's almost like from the last podcast, in my mind, he's almost like a Moses delivered to you.

Well, right. He's been a party all's life. So what I found very difficult is to train up a kid, like in our limited role, without that being a weapon. So it's like, well, it takes a lot longer. Or maybe a tool is a better way than a weapon. Well, and I was against that as being a kid, because remember, we got whipped by grandparents, aunts, uncles.

And I was like, you know. Everybody within reach of a belt or whatever. And I was like, they just did, they wanted to fast forward the time because it takes way more time, even this morning. I'm like, we took it, I took him to a little playground, but he was making a mess. He had a water bottle and he drank it and just threw it on the ground. You know, I'm just watching this. And I'm like, you know, we don't do this Because I was on Willie's property as a little kid playground.

And so when it got time to go, I was like, you need to pick up all that stuff that you've thrown in every direction. We got to leave it like we had it. I'm teaching him honor and respect. And well, he was looking at me. And I thought, oh, you're going to do it. I'll sit here as long as it takes. I was like, but you need to trust me.

This is the right way to do things, you know. And so I just thought, all right, 1001, 1002, 2003, and here he went, you know. And I thought, okay. So I think it made me think of what we've been studying. This power when kids of wanting you to be pleased with them is a powerful tool. Oh, yeah. And you're being disappointed. And it just, it's way more time-consuming.

I mean, to let that play out, which I didn't have the time with my kids. I'm not making excuses. If I could go back, I would have done a lot of things differently. Well, that's the pressure of it. I mean, we're all still busy and working, but it's something about it when you're younger doing that with your kids. You're so focused on trying to build something that a structure that they can be safe in and they can be provided for, that you do miss those patient moments sometimes of building something. Yeah.

which is interesting, the whole picture that you read from Exodus 32, to me is that moment God has with Moses. He goes through that, I think he went through that whole process to teach him something. But think about the patience that takes to do that. Oh, yeah. And I told you, I told you when we ended the podcast, I didn't mention the podcast, but recently, Lisa and I were kind of had differing ways of doing something. And I knew I was right, but I wanted her.

to think it was right because she got there on her own, not just because I said, this is what we got to do. And so I was just patient. I let a couple of months went by, and finally one day she wakes up, and she totally agreed with my side, but she got there on her own. And even though her husband and wife were equal,

at the same time, I knew she would own our decision better if she got there on her own. Oh, yeah. And so I think that's exactly what the picture you see. That's what we do. But now you can do that more with your grandkids, it's like you're willing to take,

that time to get there. Yeah, it made me think of this passage. I know we're not here yet, but in 1st John 3, where it says, 318, dear children, children, let us not love with words or tongue, but with actions and in truth. Yeah. And, you know, I mean, my first trip around parenthood was a lot of, I tell you what, it's just that. Because, Al, you know how we were raised and you tend to.

just be victims of what you were raised in. I mean, my dad would put the fear of the Lord in you, and then he would back it up with the right hand. We were not only afraid of disappointing him. We were more afraid of angering him. And he didn't get angry at that altar for what he did. It was a happening. Yeah.

And even reading that in Exodus that we did last time and looking at what the definition of, Love's not easily angered. And if I could go back, you know, I wouldn't have been able to say that to my dad, but boy, I was thinking it. Which is why Dad went through the same metamorphosis as we did and to get to watch him later in life become that patient person. And I probably saw it the most.

I mean, he was like that with Jeff, but he was the most like that part with Phyllis because she was kind of the last entry point into his life. But just watching him the way he did him. It made me respect him even more that he grew to that. Look, this is a process. I mean, we're dealing with some difficult things in First John about this connection and relationship.

And it is a process. And we've said this from the beginning, but I want to say it again here because this passage we're going to get into today, that I think the metamorphosis of John, the disciple, the young guy, the, you know, he wouldn't even refer to himself. I mean, he was like third person reference when he wrote the book of John. Like he's the young guy. He was obviously the youngest of all of them. To now elder John, who's an older man, who's lived through a bunch of stuff and watched

the first century church. He watched the destruction of Jerusalem. And now to see him write this letter as an elder and an older man, I think that's why he keeps doing this circular logic to keep coming back to it because he's trying to teach something. That's why he keeps saying, dear children, dear children are fathers, young son. He keeps, he's like, he's a teacher. here. Whereas early he was just a witness.

You know, he still got the witness, you know, at the beginning. But I just, I like his style. You can tell you written by an older man. Yeah. So let me read this passage kind of where we're two in 311, because we've been doing a lot of rabbit holes, but they all set up this part. Even though we're not going verse by verse if you haven't noticed.

Because he's saying the same thing. We're trying to talk about this like he wrote it, which is a circular. way of coming back to the same theme over and over and over. So he says, this is the message you heard from the beginning. Now, what does that sound like that? Now where you're at? Verse 11.

Yeah, verse 11. This is the message you heard from the beginning. Well, now he's going to, he's resetting right back to where he started in the first four verses. Remember he said, this is what you've heard from the beginning when he started out. So now he's going to refer back to that. And now he's going to bring in, we should love one another. So before he was talking about the faith and the life aspect, now it's the, this is how we should act.

And the light aspect of what it means to be living just with God being real. Because he just had a whole section about sin that we talked about the sin is lost and all that. So he's going to come right back to love. This is the fruit of it. And then you know it's the beginning, because you said, what is the beginning? He's going all the way back because his illustration he uses is cane. So we're talking garden. We're literally talking in the beginning.

Do not be like cane. the brother of Abel, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. So John gives some insight because, you know, when you go back and read the text in Genesis, it doesn't seem quite that stark. You know, it's almost like it was just a situation where they had, they disagreed on who had the best sacrifice. But John says, no, the evil one was prompting him. And he says, and why did he murder him?

Because his own actions were evil. and his brothers were righteous. Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world hates you. We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murder. That's quite the statement,

which sounds a lot like some of Jesus' sermon on the Mount stuff. And you know that no murder has eternal life in him. Let's just stop there. talk about that for just a minute because I wanted to reference this stuff about Kane and Abel, which is very interesting because you see him, Abel's name comes up in some other contexts, which I find interesting. One is Matthew 23 when Jesus is, you remember Matthew 23 is the one where he's ripping the Pharisees. You brood of vipers, you know, you pit of snakes, you know, and he's doing this whole thing because of how they have treated him and how they've been.

So there's always that one shirt that you keep grabbing because it works for everything. And for me, that's the one I got on right here. It's a poncho shirt. I've actually got about seven of them, but I go back to them over and over again. I usually don't get this excited about shirts, but this one has earned its praise. You guys, are y'all got your ponchos on too? We do, Zach, and they're super comfy. What hits you is we've come a long way in the making of clothes since I was a kid.

Remember those hand-me-down white t-shirts we used to wear? They were stained. Yeah, these ain't no hand-me-downs here. These are the real deal. Pancho flannels, the reason why I love them because they're not bulky or stiff, they're really soft. They got just enough stretch so that you can move in them. They also have hidden features that are very useful, like zip pockets on the bottom here. They got a little lens cloth for my glasses, which might always get, you know, fudged up.

And they have SPF-50 built in. So these shirts that you could wear outside working or you can wear them out to dinner because they're super nice. And poncho denim shirts are incredible as well. They're also very soft from day one. They have that broken in feel not like something you have to suffer through to get comfortable. They also got that clean Western look that works well for if you want to dress up or dress down. Poncho also offers free shipping, free returns, easy exchanges, and they stand behind their product, and they want to be your go-to as well.

So go to poncho outdoors.com slash unashamedment. Enter your email for $10 off your first order. that's P-O-N-C-H-O-Outdoors.com slash unashamed for $10 off in free shipping. And when they ask you how you heard about them, let them know Unashamed sent you. He says something interesting in there about Abel, and I want to mention this. Let's see. Matthew 233. He says, you snakes, you brood of vipers, how will you escape being condemned to hell?

therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify. So he's given the picture of the history of how they've treated the prophets and the people God has sent to the people. Others you will flog in your synagogue and pursue from town to town. And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on the earth from the blood of righteous Abel. So he goes all over back to Abel to the blood of Zachari, son of Burkai. whom you murder between the temple and the altar. I'll tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

And when we studied Matthew, we talked about that being, we think, the destruction of Jerusalem and the judgment that came as a result of that. But the Hebrew writer also mentions the blood of Abel in Hebrews 11, 4, when he mentions him. And then also in Hebrews 12, 24, when he's given that picture of the kingdom of God, And he says that the blood of Jesus is even better than the blood, the righteous blood of Abel. He says to Jesus, the media of a new covenant, 1224,

and to the sprinkle blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel. So I do find it interesting that John brings out the cane side of the equation, but then other people talked about the Abel side, which was blood that was shed innocently. And it was shed innocently. And when you read the story in Genesis 4 and verse 10, it says, the Lord said, this is after the act was committed. He said, what have you done?

Listen, your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground. Yeah. Which what a picture, which is why I think John, when he gets to chapter 5, he's going to use these life sources as an illustration. He uses blood, water, and the spirit. Yeah. And all these things represent life. You know, the spirit gives life.

Where there's no water, there's no life. And blood is like the life source of humans. Right, right. And so I do find it interesting that he makes the comparison here of those two. And it also shows you something else we talked about briefly in the last podcast. Two things, I think. One is there's a heart behind a sacrifice or an action, and that's what God's interested in. I mean, Abel, what made him righteous was that not he was perfect.

He was a man just like Kane was, and now they're the result of their own parents' sin and what that's unleashed on the world. But his heart was right. His sacrifice to God was the right heart. That's what God was looking for. Cain's was not. And then the second thing is, I think it shows you the power of jealousy and envy. I think that's two of the greatest motivators for sin.

I mean, the evil one, and I think the reason why it's so rampant, because, you know, Jesus said he was a murderer himself from the beginning is because when you have jealousy and envy of other people, maybe it's within your family, maybe it's other people's possessions, whatever the case is, if you struggle with that particular sin, it will always lead to something bad. It either leads to anger, as in the case of Cain, where you get so angry with something,

somebody that you can murder somebody. I mean, literally take them out. Or what I see more often is bitter envy that the Bible talks about quite a bit that you get where you just can't accept anything good because that guy doesn't deserve that or whatever. And you root for their failure. Yes. You actually root for the people that you once loved. You actually root for their failure. And in this case, it was, and they were brothers. I mean, thinking about that, they were, they are two brothers that I'm sure they're a relationship. They probably played games together as kids and they grew up together and then but but able offers this wonderful beautiful sacrifice to the lord and it grew that bitter root in his heart and it's so interesting that if

you think about like when when he killed abel and abel's blood spills to the ground and then as jace mentioned that that blood cried out a particular um action that it wanted to happen and And the action was it was justice, like, avenge me. That was the cry of Abel's blood. So when you get to the Hebrew text, you actually see something completely different. It says the blood of Jesus cry. Yeah, it's a, what was the phrase again? It speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Yeah. And to the sprinkle blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel, yeah. So the blood of Abel cries out justice, avenge me. The blood of Christ cries out mercy, forgive them. Yeah. I mean, think about the context of that, of what he's saying there in Hebrews. And so you actually see that loop play out as we are redeemed by Christ, and then we allow the Holy Spirit to sanctify us.

We can actually be released from all of those jealousies and all of those things that would set up against the people that God created us to love, our brother and our sister, right? And so what I think is probably one of the most hidden sins in all of humanity is that sin of jealousy. Because it's not something you just admit, right? And to admit, people say, man, I struggle with porn. And everybody's kind of like, okay, yeah, I get it. That's a problem nowadays. Man, I struggle with lust.

Okay, I get, man, I'm really struggling with, you know, working all the time. And I just, I want security and I'm not relying on God. Okay, man, I really talk bad about you. I'm sorry. But for some, I've never heard someone say, I'm really struggling with jealousy. Yeah. I don't, you never hear it. You don't.

And yet it's so destructive. And also generational, you go back and you read from Kane forward. There's a couple of chapters there where it talks about their lineages of the different sons. It's really interesting because when you look at Kane's lineage and you watch and see some of the things that are said about the next generation, the one after him, Lamek and others, it's all bad. I mean, the first time you see somebody with two wives, it's out of Cain's lineage. The first time the guy says, if Cain is avenged, one time I'll be avenged seven, I'm going to kill seven times as many as he did. And it led to this place, this precipice that was so bad that God said in Genesis 6, I wish hadn't he made them. Oh, yeah.

I mean, that's the progression. Well, because it gets to be every man for himself. When you give in to the sin of jealousy, what ends up happening is you start to view the world to a skeptical lens. and everybody is a threat. Everybody's out to get you. You can't actually collaborate. You can't actually, but you read the cultural mandate in Genesis 128, and God's intention for humanity is not that we would actually be jealous of one another

and compete over the resources. It's actually that we would collaborate and expand the resources. It's to cultivate the earth. And so I've really, I mean, look, I've struggled with jealousy. I've struggled with secretly wanting someone's failure not even because he did anything wrong, maybe quite the opposite, because they did it right.

And I felt like, man, somebody needs to put them in their place, right? Yeah, I'm lacking. And so we've kind of made it a practice in our family because I think we identified this about seven years in the marriage, that jealousy was just a killer of intimacy. It was a killer of cultivation.

It was a killer of any type of life. And so we started to, me and Jill, we do repeatedly confess that when we feel that towards, somebody. And it's kind of, it was embarrassing at first. But when you speak that out, and you don't have to tell it to everybody, but when you speak that out in confession, you know, James says that you'll be healed. And we found progressive healing from that. And I can tell you everything that I've been able to be a part of creating that was great in the world, it was always in collaboration

and partnership with other people. Everything. And it's usually not out of failure. It's kind of the case of Cain and Abel, jealousy usually comes out of success. In other words, people are jealous of other people's success. I can't tell you how many families through the years of being a pastor for many years were just destroyed because of this concept. Someone had success in a family. Some sibling had this rivalry and jealousy and just wedged in between them, between parents. And it's so destructive and it just breaks your heart. And then you see it like it was with Cain, pass on generation to generation. which is a sad part.

Well, I think jealousy is just the offspring of pride. Because pride is the problem. And it made me think of that. Before James said, confess your sins one another, so you'll be healed. He said we read this often. But in James 313, he says, who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life,

by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. but if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such wisdom does not come down from heaven, but it's earthly, unspiritual of the devil. And then here's the, I mean, just lightning bolt statement. For where you have envy and selfish ambition or jealousy envy, there you find disorder and every evil practice. Wow. Yeah, that says it beautifully. You know what it made me think of is that a verse in Proverbs 6, 16 through 19 that says there's seven things that the Lord hates.

It says there's six things that are detestable, seven that the Lord hates. And when you read these things, haughty eyes or pride, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood. I mean, I just think about the abortion epidemic. How much is that blood crying out? And now it's exponentially more, even with what's happened in our culture, because now the evil one keeps creating ways to do it. Now it's the abortion pill,

which is now done unchecked across, I mean, just people can get delivered right to your house. Four, a heart that devises wicked schemes, five feet that are swift in running to evil six a false witness seven sewing discord among brothers and I thought what are all those things have in common yeah

they all affect other people yeah I mean that isn't that something it is you would think oh the seven things the Lord hates it's all relational that's right how you treat someone else how you view them And I'm telling you, I know that's because we have a big audience, that some of you're sitting out there and you know this is a struggle for you. And I'm just telling you, if you don't do what Zach was just describing a minute ago, which James would say later in James 5, you confess your sin for healing. That's how you get there.

First it meant, I got a problem with this. And heal those damaged relationships. It's not worth it. It's not worth going through life, not having this relationship. I mean, John is very clear. about the nature of this thing. When he talks about, when you've, and you don't always murder a person by killing them.

A lot of times you murder them by cutting them out of your life. Exactly. And it's the same thing. And so, and then look, he comes back with his answer. Listen, verse 16, because you say, well, how do we know? How do we know what this love looks like? Well, he's going to tell you, this is how we know, verse 16, what love is.

And here it is. Here's what we do. Jesus Christ laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. And then he has a very interesting sort of example what that might look like. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need, but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Which is an odd thing that he just stuck in there unless you realize that submission and caring about other people leads you to be one who serves and gives.

I mean, it just becomes a natural producer. Well, I've found it always powerful when a Bible writer ask a question to go ahead and answer it. Yeah. It can't. That's right. It's like a rhetorical question. No, I know, but we don't ever want to answer that question. You're right.

It's like, if anyone has material possession sees his brother's knee but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? And then we just keep reading. Do you know? No, I can't. It can't. Well, that becomes convicting. Yeah.

Because you're like, what am I claiming versus what am I doing? How is this real? That's right. And I keep getting back to that. The more I read first John, the more God seems real. Like, he's not messing around here. It's like if you go to an assembly once a week and then go out that door and live the exact opposite of his nature, it's not there. It's just not there.

No, you're just going through the motion. There needs to be conviction with the way you live your life. And again, it's a great point, Jay, is because that goes back to that idea about, remember, this started with Canaan Abel over the sacrifice to God. So if you're looking at your spiritual walk of Christ as just the things I do to check a box or a list or whatever, you know, and you never surrender. Because when he shows a picture of surrender, laid down his life, that's a surrender. But you can go through the motions of all the sacrifices, but remember David said it's not sacrifices you seek. It's the heart behind the sacrifice that he's seeking.

So you can have all the blood of bulls and goats and everything these guys are going through without the heart behind it. And you're just going through the motions. And I think you describe a lot of people. Yeah. I think that's why people tend to alienate themselves. I mean, I remember one time I was, he had a brother, he was struggling.

And he wasn't meeting half the time. And I was like, look, these, this is your problem because it's usually a pattern. When you see somebody, their life, they got some sin in their life, and then you look up and they're not around. They don't meet. But I remember asking this guy, I was like, you're not meeting. These are your friends. And I was thinking, John 15, no greater love than a man lay down his life for his friends. And he's like, I don't want to be around these people.

I mean, he's flat out said the obvious. And it's like because it's harder to have these friends in the Lord because they're constantly challenging the way I'm living. Yeah, but I don't want to change my life. And that's what it gets down to. We talked about this a lot. We had our marriage refresh last weekend. And we were talking about kingdom marriage. So the idea is just like we surrender in the kingdom, which is such an odd term of victory is to

surrender to win. And yet that's exactly what happens. And how that has to happen in your marriage. And one of the illustrations that someone used, which I thought was good, is like, you know, we say, would I give my life to protect my wife and my family? And most men would say, if that moment came, I feel like I could step up and do whatever it took to protect my wife and protect my kids. In other words, take a bullet. But can you take the burden of the day to day? Because that's where really, you know, the chances of you having that life or death moment are slim. It'll happen to some, but 99.9% of everybody has to make a decision in marriage whether you can take the burden and not just the bullet. And I think that's exactly the same picture that he's describing here.

And I love the idea that the natural reaction to it and the response is that we would become giving people who would look at situations and have compassion. You know, but if you, you You didn't. You notice of people that are like all the things you describe from Proverbs 6, if that is a marker of your life, you notice those folks usually are never very compassionate to people or never very... How can you be? It's a guilty conscience.

But it's a throwback to where he started when he said in verse six of chapter 1, when he said, if we claim to have fellowship with him, because we want to have fellowship with God, because look at the benefits. Yeah. Live forever. Don't burn in hell. you know, all the big highlight moments that you get out of this. But it says if you claim to have fellowship with him,

yet walk in the darkness, we lie and don't live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, see the other that's in the light. Then he throws this little parenthetical in. We have fellowship with one or another. Yeah. Part of walking in the light is doing the day-to-day fellowship, which is the same reason people don't share Jesus. You know, I've found that.

People like, well, it's just not my talent. or no it's just messy yeah when you share Jesus and have difficult conversations with people people don't want to do that right and because it's messy but it's the messiness that that actually works and is effective me think about what paul said in first corinthians chapter one and two he said essentially i didn't come in with a bunch of really good arguments and if anyone would have had great arguments it would have been paul because he was both a scholar and judy He knew the Torah very well. He was, you know, the Pharisee of all Pharisees,

but he was also a Roman citizen. And we saw later in the book of Acts, that he was able to interact and, you know, with the Greco-Roman philosopher. So he was very well read. He knew his stuff. But he told the Corinthian Church, when I came to you,

my witness, my presentation of Jesus to you is not in wise and persuasive words, lest the cross be empty of its power. But it was, he said, I came to you with a demonstration of the spirit and a power so that your faith might not rest on the wisdom of them, on the power of God. And so when you consider the Apostle Paul and how He shared Jesus, it really, it's not about your effectiveness that leads people to Christ anyways. It's actually about the Holy Spirit

in you coming out through you, through your story, through your testimony, through your genuine, your own genuine experience with God. That's what you share. It's not some packaged up thing, you know. Well, you know, there was the exact, at the refresh last weekend, there was a couple there that I'd never met. And I don't know who they were. I mean, there's like a lot of times there's a lot of people there. And so they were doing one of the testimony. So I knew the people that organized it, Trey and Anna and others, knew this couple's story.

But I had no idea. I'd never met them. They get up and they start sharing. And it was amazing. It was so Revelation 12, 11. which is that we overcome the evil one by the blood of the land, the word of our testimony, the fact we don't love this life so much, we'd shrink back from anything, including death. And as they were talking, that passage just was like a, it was like a highlight.

It was like if it could be flashing above their head, it was because they were given all the glory to Christ and honor. But when they went back and described their pathway, I mean, she was an atheist, and he was an agnostic. And I think they were originally from California. And so that was their start. then they start walking through. And he was a physician. He's a doctor that doesn't practice anymore, but he was a doctor.

And he used his position of authority, in his words, to groom women. And so he had these multiple affairs. They had both been divorced a time or two before they found each other. And then he had these multiple affairs of her. But he said it. I mean, who says that out loud? I was a groomer of women. That's what he said.

He said, I would find them. They were weakwill, just what to describe in the scripture. They would have problems. and I knew just what to say to set the stage to then be able to take advantage of. And when he was describing, I was like, wow, I mean, you talk about a man who's found some healing that can talk about the way he was in these terms. And what was really interesting was he said what finally broke through to him was when his daughter was in a high schooler and a person was trying to groom her, a pedophile.

And he said, I never had anything for children, but I was doing it to win. And he said, but when it happened to my own daughter, he said, all of a sudden, he said, I looked at the situation. I was so offended and mad about the thing. And he said, I realized, that's you. You're doing the same thing, just in a different genre. Yeah, it's somebody's daughter. Exactly, which is what I said when I got up and spoke later. But, you know, when I heard them tell that story and then how that Christ, how they finally just out of sheer brokenness and just misery of a miserable marriage and life and all.

that, they just came to Christ in that broken, battered way. And then he had totally changed them. And so now for the last, I think they said three years, they're both working corporate America, you know, but they just sold all their stuff and they have a motor home and they just drive around offering to do testimonies at churches and talk about their marriage. And I was like, that's the part about that you don't love this life so much you shrink back from anything. And so they wind up at our marriage retreat because they had met some people because they just drive around an RV, they both work corporate jobs to make a living and to provide for them, but they live a life of now ministry and trying to help them. I was like, a guy like that, like, if you think about

the blood of Abel against a guy like that, it says, avenge me, it says canceling. Yeah. Somebody admits that, you can't, then that's worthy of cancel culture. Yeah. But, but the, but the blood of Jesus says forgive. Well, exactly. You think about that. That's right. That's what. Because we talked about, they had this thing where you, around your table, you talk about the people that just did a talk or whatever. And one of the guys sitting next to me, he's like, man, I mean, when he was describing himself, I mean, I was getting angry. I was just like, this guy, this, I mean, I don't even want to keep listening to this guy. And, you know, and it was interesting because then you get to the end, he said, but, man, isn't God good? And I thought that's where it winds up, right, for any of us.

Well, I wanted to ask you this in our last few minutes, that, 1 John 3.15 is such a profound statement because there's two aspects of it. One is anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, which echoes what Jesus said on the sermon on the Mount. Remember that? You've heard it said, don't commit murder. But I tell you, if you're angry with your brother, you've committed murder in your heart. And, I mean, what a profound statement. and then it says,

and you know that no murder has eternal life in him, which I think people who are skeptics of the Bible think, well, wait a minute, let me get this right. Moses murder. Yeah. He killed the Egyptian. Paul, which Zach just referred to, he was going around killing Christians.

You have David, who we haven't been. mentioning, but you remember his... He murdered his wife, I mean, the affair he had, husband. Yeah. So how, what would you tell the skeptic, I mean, I just wanted to get y'all's opinion, because I think people bring that up, they're like, well, why would John say that? Yeah. Well, I think because that shows you how it plays out.

I mean, they actually did commit murder. Yeah. You know? And, but where did it start? I think his point is it started because of... you didn't love somebody. You know, and first of all, that love is you lose your love for God, but then you lose your love for your neighbor.

And so I think that's a great point that you described. Three of the major characters in the whole biblical narrative were people who committed murder out of this sinful, you know, heart that was there. So, yeah, I mean, that's the prime example. When your heroes are people that have done exactly what he's warning you not to do, That tells you right there, there's got to be something bigger than just you. Well, the failure, if we think about this, the failure to love, it is, it's that. And then it's also, I think it's about vocation.

We talk about that a lot on this podcast, but one of the biggest, the biggest fundamental flaw with liberalism, and I mean political liberalism, is that it's historically, and I don't mean classical liberalism. I mean, like, as we know it today, is it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's seen resources as finite. And you got to hoard up the resources, right? So the whole idea is that we got an economic pie. And you got to make sure that that pie, you get your part of that pie.

Because if that piece is gone, if somebody else eats it, well, then it's gone forever. So the mindset is it's built on a mindset of scarcity. And so I think this is the problem. It's the same problem with Kane. That's why he didn't want to give up the sacrifice to God. is he was thinking with a mindset of scarcity. He didn't understand the cultural mandate.

He didn't understand Genesis 128. No, it's not scarce. We actually can create wealth. We can actually expand the garden. We can actually expand the fruit production. Like, it can be expanded. Abel got that. So he could very easily come to God with this offering

because it's like, I mean, yeah, I give God this offering and then he'll produce 10-fold. I mean, I'm not worried about the resources. There's enough to go around Where Kane was like, I got to hoard it up And so I think it starts with the fear That you're not going to be provided with And that's, then you start to hoard, right?

You hoard it up. You say, I'm not going to do the cultural mandate thing. I'm not going to expand the garden. I'm going to build a fence around the garden. That was Kane. And then when you look at someone who is expanding the garden, then the jealousies come in. Then you start to fill all that stuff.

And so that plays out throughout, all of the history of Israel. We just read Exodus 32, and either this podcast or the last, I can't remember, they all bleed together, but what was the issue in Exodus? Well, the Israelites,

God literally has manna raining out of the sky, like Brett's falling out of the sky. He's obviously going to provide for you, and he says, just don't do one thing. Don't hoard it up. Don't gather it up, get what you need, and leave the rest there,

and what they do. they gathered it up. And you know what's amazing about that, Zach, you're so right. You know what they took to make the golden calf? All the plunder that God had given them out of Egypt. And they took all that gold and all the great stuff he gave them. And then they just melted it all down into something that they would bow down to. Out of scarcity, your point is exactly.

And to be fair, the only real evidence that God had given them prior to that, that it was that he just literally parted the Red Sea for him. I mean, you're thinking like, what else does the God of heaven have to do? How would the world, coming out of what you just came out of, seeing what you just saw, how in the world would you think that this God, Yahweh, is not going to provide for you? But they thought that, and so they leaned on their own ability to make sure that they could build a fence around their garden instead of doing what God called them to do, which this idea of expansion in our vocation is it is a key, facet of how we interact with the kingdom of God.

Which goes back to that presence concept. The presence of God in our lives is an infinite well of everything we'll ever need. To Zach's point, you're never going to run out. I mean, the Holy Spirit's going to provide what you need. I think it's interesting. He's contrasting the anger that it takes to take a life versus giving up your life. Exactly. And that's so good.

That's what's being highlighted. And remember, that's what's. what Paul did, that's what Moses did, that's what David did. Well, look at our culture, all the things that result in death. Yeah. I mean, if we all caught a hope to that movement, well, civilization would die out. Yeah. It results in death.

Because Satan is the architect of it. All right, we're out of time. We'll pick it up here next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.