Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1284 | Flashback: Phil Robertson's Questions About Mental Illness, Sin, and the Human Dilemma

Episode Date: March 6, 2026

Phil kicks things off with a question: When was the last time you heard the word sin in our courts, schools, governments, or Hollywood? This leads Phil, Jase, and Zach into a candid discussion of counseling, psychiatry, and the relationship between spirituality, sin, behavioral problems, brokenness, emptiness, mental illness, and the human dilemma. This episode originally aired on October 30, 2020. In this episode: Romans 2, verse 15; John 15, verse 18; John 15, verse 26; John 16, verses 7-11; Hebrews 10, verse 14; Colossians 1, verses 28-29; Hebrews 5, verse 14; 1 John 3, verse 10 http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/ — Sign up now for free, and join the Unashamed hosts every Friday for Unashamed Academy Powered by Hillsdale College Listen to Not Yet Now with Zach Dasher on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or anywhere you get podcasts. Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/at-home-with-phil-robertson/id1835224621 Chapters: 00:00 Zach Introduces a Flashback With Phil & Jase 02:05 Why Modern Culture Won’t Use the Word “Sin” 06:10 Behavioral Problems or Mental Illness? 11:40 Why People Feel Guilty 16:45 When Psychiatry & Culture Redefine Sin 22:05 The Human Problem: Biological or Spiritual? 28:10 Jesus, Repentance, & the Path to Real Change 34:30 The Holy Spirit’s Role in Convicting the World 40:10 Phil on Why Many People Turn to God Around Age 30 46:10 Living by the Spirit vs Living by Self — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, guys, we've got something special for you today. This is Zach, and I want to give you something new here. It's a little flashback to 2020 when Phil, Jason, myself, we're talking about a very important topic called mental illness and that relationship between spirituality and sin, behavioral problems, brokenness, emptiness, and just a human dilemma. We didn't always agree, but these conversations, they really did make us all better. Phil was so sharp, and I think you guys are going to love this.

And then next Friday, March 13th, we're starting a Hillstale online course on ancient Christianity. It's the life of Jesus, his apostles, and all the trials and triumph of the first Christians. I hope you guys will join us. And if you want to take the course along with us, just go to Unashamed forhillsdale.com and enroll in the ancient Christianity course. The link will be in the show notes. You can take the class at any time, and they're all free. And coming up in the next few weeks, we're going to tell you about something really cool that you'll be eligible to win if you complete the course, okay? So make sure that you complete the course.

All you got to do is sign up at unashamed for Hillsdale.com to get started, and it's no cost to you. I am unashamed. What about you? So I'm asking myself this question, and I'll ask you younger bucks. I'll ask y'all, and be sincere in your answer, when is the last time or have you ever heard, Let's just get it down to the court system, the school system, the Hollywood governmental agencies.

You say, when's the last time you heard the word sin? A little word, S-I-N. I don't think they use that word anymore. Yeah, that's an arcade word. They don't use that word anymore. Okay, well, that leads to my next. question well if they're not using that word anymore to characterize certain behaviors yeah you know people are are shooting looting burning robbing honey and hatred is up in your face spitting in

your face spray painting your car tariff ripping you out of a vehicle because you're going along with a flag sticking out the window you're describing peaceful protest I'm describing oh perfectly normal and healthy yeah peace what would they use the word what is the word the modern day word. So what do they call what we, what you look at sin, we have lists of, lists of sins. Would they say mistakes? Illness. Because like I've heard a lawyer say that no matter what, he's a defense lawyer,

no matter what happens, he always says the same thing. Mistakes were made, apologies were given, checks are in the mail. Yeah. Yeah. In other words, so, so look, so you've got to tell. take a Bible text, the acts of the sinful nature are obvious. So the Apostle Paul has said, you can look out at humanity and you can say, yeah. So you're in Galatians 5? I'm in Galatians 5. Yeah. And there's two lists here. One list for the sinful and one list

for the godly. So everybody says, well, there's no God. I say everybody. There's a giant percentage of them. There's no God. There's no sin. They're actually just sick. They need a psychiatrist. They need a counselor, a sociologist. They need somebody. Valid point. Tell your story about, you were telling me about the guy who's telling you why he doesn't get to the root of the problem. I think this is interesting.

And this is somebody that I've had a lot of robust conversations with about theology, about worldview, about culture. And he said to me one time, he said, Zach, you know why? You know why everybody who comes to me comes to me? And I said, no. And he said... Now, why are they coming to him to begin with him? He's a counselor. He's a counselor.

He's a counselor. Okay. The one of the... That's right. So he says, why... Do you want to know why people come to see me? And he said, they all want to know the same thing, which is, why are they the way that they are?

Like, they want to know that one thing that will explain why they are the way they are. And, of course, we're always talking theology. So I'm thinking, sin? And I asked you, I said, sin? Well, well, I mean, that's the ultimate answer, but that's not what I tell them. He said, I can't tell them that. They'll never come back. He said, people want something.

He said, if he tells them they're sinful, they'll never come back. Yeah, he says that people are looking for something outside of themselves to explain why they are the way they are. And granted, there are a lot of outside environmental things that affect us. But ultimately, I think that thing in you that's empty is a real. I think the Bible teaches it's, you know, we've fallen short. of the glory of God, everybody has sinned and fallen short of his glory. But if they don't have a belief in God, they're saying, why am I behaving like I'm behaving, why am I internally, I'm all been out of shape here, I have these struggles.

And, you know, the law, everyone who sins breaks the law, the definition for sin. First John 3, verse 4. Everyone who sins breaks the law. In fact, sin is lawlessness. But we're living in a culture that says, no, the communists say what you need to push through is treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders, which no one but psychiatrists can understand or treat. So when they come to you and they say, I'm not happy. I found myself doing this and doing that, and I just feel upset, but I don't know what to put my finger on. One of the things that's possible, in my opinion, people show that the requirements of the law, this is Romans chapter 2, they show that the requirements of the law, you say, well, what are the requirements of the law?

You obey the law. You don't, you're, you're not a man of lawless issue. You just obey it. Well, but think about it. Most of it. Yeah, well, you have all these cultures with different sets of laws, rules, if you prefer. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts. Other words, what about, in this case, he's saying the Jews, God wrote it down in stone.

And for top ten, that's a do-stead. I mean, children obey your father and mother, don't murder, don't commit adultery, don't lie, don't steal, don't covet. So the Almighty wrote that down for the Jews. You said, what about all them Gentiles hanging around out there? They never had that. Well, how would they know what was right and what was wrong? How would they know when they were lawbreakers? Because they come to psychiatrists and they say, I have all these problems, but I don't know exactly what it is.

But if you say, well, it's a sin. They would say, oh, no, look, they'll give me the Bible stuff. I don't believe in sin when you break the law. I don't believe that. But what they don't understand is that the law is written on their hearts, the one who didn't get it in stone. They didn't have a code that you could pull out and say, okay, if I do this, this, this, this, this, and this, I'd be a good person.

Their consciences. So what I'm telling you is, the reason. reason they come to counselors and sociologists and psychiatrists, the reason they go there is because they don't understand that they have a conscience and when they violate the law, not written in stone or a piece of paper, it's inside their head. We all have it. We have a conscience that tells us what's what your conscience will do. Your thoughts will accuse you. Why did you do that? You knew that was wrong.

Well, what are you doing? And then they all go, oh, I guess maybe I shouldn't do that again. I don't know why I feel guilty about doing that, but all I did was just, you know, slick somebody out of a few bucks. Yeah. And now, I don't know. I've got this guilt about it. I mean, I'm trying to get past it. Can you help me?

It's a way you ever heard the little word sin? They're like, no, no. I don't believe in that Bible stuff. fix my problem, Mr. Counselor, fix my problem, but don't be talking Bible to me. Now it either, your conscience accuses you even defending them. So you say, well, I don't think it was that bad because, you know, everybody does it. So it can't be wrong. It wouldn't be this many people who participate in this kind of behavior.

So I don't think your conscience begin to say, wait a minute, it's healthy, it's normal. I mean, you're practicing perversion, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Or you say, it's sin. You need to come to the one who can remove that. So we're giving them the Jesus answer, but the psychiatrist, they never mention the solution to the problem. I think it's difficult, too. In psychiatry, well, there is a legitimate role for psychiatry. I mean, some people have legitimate mental illness.

We were talking about my grandma. Your mom. That was a chemical imbalance and she basically would go through stretches where she was another person. And when she got lined out through medication and different things, she didn't even remember what happened. You know, when she, I remember coming back from the hospital one time, she's like, I mean, who painted this house red? She's like, well, you did. Who stopped up all the toilets with wash rags? I was like, that would be you.

She said, I didn't do no such a thing, you know. Remember, she would like, I mean, if you want to get in trouble, you say something crude or, you know, she would never tolerate any kind of four-letter words or anything. But when she was on her rant, oh, she was dropping four-letter words. Nobody's busy. It was crazy. They labeled her a manic depressive.

And somebody found through treatment of the heart, the pump that's in your chest, they found out the lithium, I think it was. So they began to dispense lithium to them, and they'd keep them in Pineville, which is a place where the mentally ill end up. So, and then you saw a lot of people with, I mean, I'm trying to find out where mental illness is in the scriptures.

I'm having a hard time finding that particular phrase because it's not in there. Well, I was more thinking about, just counseling is different. You know, when you say, I've got some problems. Yeah. Let me go talk to a counselor and figure out what the heck's going on. Well, you've got counseling.

Psychiatry is more, and they're medical doctors, so they're probably looking at things to a more biological perspective. Yeah, see if it's something physical or chemical. But, I mean, to be fair, to Phil's point, although I do think there is a legitimate framework for psychiatric medicine, but the diagnostic manual that they use, use to determine mental illness. When I was in college, it was called the DSM-4, because that was the fourth version. I'm not sure what version it's on now, but I will tell you that if you go look at the history

of it, there are things that we call mental illness that have evolved based on kind of cultural adaptations and expectations in society. And so it is somewhat, I'd always bother me when I would, you know, I'd say, well, it's settled science because it seems like where the culture moves and certain things that would used to be that would be in this manual as a mental illness would not be now simply because society has evolved to not accept that or they've accepted that behavior now as something that's perfectly legitimate well yeah i agree it's kind of blurred the line because when i did the two-year prison ministry every time i had a one-on-one just about almost all well they were like i can't figure out why i'm here

I'm like, well, what did you do? Tell me the process. They're like, oh, that was a misunderstanding. I was like, okay. But tell me, I want to hear the details. What happened? How, when did, and it would always go down the same road. I'm like, when did the police actually arrest you?

Tell me that story. But I noticed they didn't want to tell that story. because it's all of a sudden it turned into I'm the counselor yeah and I'm trying to get to did you did you commit a sin to your point bill that even the world says no wait a minute you got that's wrong it's and it's not even that you commit a sin and then like oh no everything happens it's it's more of a state of sin that has caused our dilemma our ultimate dilemma right I mean we all got that thing in us It's like, man, something's not right. I think everybody has to deal with that.

And so when we're trying to come at it from some humanistic standpoint, or we're going to try to explain this away, it's just falling short. I mean, it's not working. I mean, we're selling tens of billions of dollars a year in antidepressants and psychotrophic medications. And we're still depressed. We're still anxious. More so than any point in history, you would think that with the advancements in mental health

science that we wouldn't be. I think it's because in a lot of cases, we're not getting to the core of our issue, which is that, yeah, we're in a sinful, fallen world, and we are broken, not just broken. Broken is kind of a nice way of saying we are morally depraved. We are rebellious. All right. Now, hold on that.

So, we have two entities that have arisen. I don't know about Red China, North Korea, Russia, Venezuela, with a complete different system. It's not a constitutional republic, that's for sure. But they've built a system. They're dealing with liars, rapists, thieves, robbers, looters, shooters. These people over there that do not have constitutional republics. They're dealing with these same issues. All of them.

Every country, full of human beings, the sins are all the same if you're going to go down the sin road. They're sinful. They need a Savior, and it will fix it. My question is, who's winning? Who's winning as far as we've got this poor soul? They've come to you. I've had thousands come to me. What is my problem? What's wrong with me? I'm just trying to get my life in order, but I'm on crystal meth, and I just keep on this downward spiral. I talked to rehab, the people in the rehabs and the prisons like Jason's talking about. A lot of them deny that they ever did anything wrong. I don't know how I ended up here. Now, you tell them, well, the crystal meth's a powerful drug, you know, fentanyl, we've taught

you, our own kin are dead now because of fentanyl, my own nephew, hanged himself in a jail cell full of fentanyl. So who's winning the battle on the explanation on whether it's mental illness, a psychiatric disorder, or it's sinful? So on the one side, if we're supposed to have the answer, Christianity, why is it that it seems like to me that the rate of rebellion, sinful, we call it sinful behavior, lawbreakers, how come that it seems like, it seems. to be there's not a real good solution to it. I mean, we're living in a world now to where we've dumbed it down to where, I mean, we can either dominate the psychiatric profession, the Communist Manifesto says, the Karl Marx crowd. They said, what you need to do is dominate the psychiatric profession. Use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control,

over those who oppose communist goals. So turn it over to the psychiatrist. No one but psychiatrists can understand or treat what's going on. That's what they're saying. Well, who's winning the battle here? I think that it's considering that what it means to be human is that you are a body with a spirit. So we're not purely biological as humans. You know, now the animal kingdom, you know, they don't have the spirit that we had.

They're not, they don't have rational faculties of deer. I mean, you guys hunt deer. They're still doing the same thing that they were doing 10,000 years ago. But he did use that as an example. You remember that in, is it, Second Peter, where he was talking about false apostles came in there, and he was like, they're springs without whatever. Not mere instinct. They follow their instinctual desire.

And it says they promise freedom. Second Peter 2. But they are a slave to depravity. There are springs without water. Yeah. That's, that's, here's my question. But let me just finish my thought. So then he relates it to dogs.

And he's like, if you've escaped the correction of the world, and then you're again entangled in it, and he then says, I mean, you're like a dog returning to its vomit to Zach's point. at some point i mean i have a little dog who was spoiled by mrs grandma and she died left us the dog this dog was spoiled for years so he's in the house he has a doggie door we have another dog that gets it when you poop or pee you go out that door and you're free to do that all over this yard in creation so the first dog first time the dog didn't do it he just poop right there where everybody's sitting so i got up calmly not in anger. I know it's a dog. I popped him about twice on the rear end. Of course, he got the door

then. Didn't see him for two days because he's like, what in the world is going on. I'm like, this, this is wrong. So about four or five days later, guess what? I come home, I step. I said, what's that smell? We've got more doggy poop in the floor. I grab the dog, rub the note, pop. You said, what is wrong with this dog? He can't get it. A few days later, guess what? Here we go again. Popped him again. So now, every time he sees me, he runs.

But I'm establishing the fact, he made that analogy in that we used to, what's my problem? We almost become soulless like the dog when we continue the same habits over and over and over and deny that there's a problem. But we're not soullish. We're not simply spirits, though. There is a biological component to us. So I think there's a role there. But I think to feel, to answer your point, though, when we approach the human dilemma with a framework that everything is material,

all of your psychological problems, they're all material. And if I can just figure out a way to get your neurochemical balances right, if I can get your noroprenephine, your dopamine, your serotonin, and you're from that to cleft and I can, you know, but the problem is is that we're not strictly biological. We are biological, but we're also spiritual. Oh, I agree. I was just answering the question when the guy sits down on the couch

and the counselor, because he would never say it, say quit pooping in the middle of your house. That's what the problem is. Here's my question. You have two avenues from me just step back looking at it. they come to counselors they come to professional social workers the acts of the sinful nature are obvious I have a sexually immoral problem I'm breeding anything I get my hands on

and I keep getting these safely transmitted diseases I don't know what I'm done I'm just sitting I'm spiraling that control I have no self-control or it's like I'm into pornography I don't understand. Impurity. That's there, Jay. Debutchery, just, I mean, party time all the time. Adolators, witchcraft, hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage.

All these issues, people are going to, one or two places. My question is, which one works the best? The one that says you're just a collection of molecules and all these things are normal and natural, and they say, I will go through a seven-step program without God, without Bible teaching, and you'll come out on the other side. What's the rate of people who are cured? And they now are, after going through the series of counseling sessions, they are now amazingly model citizens. and it was all done without anything biblical, we just treated them and we talked and we had them share their problems.

Which one is producing the most model citizens? Is it through the worldly collection of psychiatrists and psychologists? Are they doing a better job? Or is it the ones that go to the sons and daughters of God? They believe in a God. They believe in a Savior. they believe that he can remove the guilt of what you've been participating in. Not only remove your sin, but he can remove the guilt of your sin.

A lot in the Bible are talking about, you know, he takes away the guilt, takes away the guilt. I mean, it's unknowable, but I would assume it's no one's in Jesus. I mean, they'll probably say, well, you know, show you some staff. Which is the best way to make models? Because what you won't at the end of the day, no matter what you say, you would like to see people just below the acts of the sinful nature. They go through the process, whether it's a spiritual process, Jesus at the front, point them to him, he'll remove your sin. It's Satan. I know you don't think there's a devil, but the Bible says there is, and he's brought you down on the ground.

So you're giving them that fix. The other ones are saying, well, you're just mentally ill. we're going to give you some medication, and this is going to calm you down. So with pharmaceuticals and counseling, at the end of the day, you will be full of love, joy. You will be happy, happy, just dancing or jig once you go through the seminar with the counselor. You're going to be full of peace. I don't think he's going to work. You're going to be patient from now on.

Kindness will stand out from you like you. Not now you're crying and you feel guilty for all the immoral action, but you'll be good when you get done with the counseling session. You'll be very faithful to the code to me for helping you, and you'll be gentle from now on the rest of your life, never any outbursts. You will be calm as everything. And finally, you will get what you've always been wanting for the last 20 years

and brought you to prison or in a rehab. You will be full completely of self. control. You'll be able to control your life where you, your life at fentanyl, your life at cocaine. You say, what an idiot. I didn't know that. I've been counseled and they said, well, well, you know, fentanyl will kill you. And cocaine, you'll have to take more and more and you never seem to get enough because these are real issues. And look, it's a big problem. All I'm asking you all is, which is the best route to go. I point them to Jesus.

I'm a counselor. They sit down and I point them to Jesus. The ones I see that repent, which they're told, you've got to repent. You have the decision to take over your own life with the help of God, or you can just stay down here in this circle of death

that you're participating in and you're going in a circle. You're not going anywhere. I only bring that up because I just noticed. I only bring it up because I noticed. And then I thought about my own life. You start asking people, how old are you?

They come to you and they say, I have some serious issues, Mr. Robinson, I'm going to tell you about them. So I said, they start going through it. I go the spiritual route. I go point them to Jesus and tell them you're going to have to repent and turn to God.

He'll take away your sins. He'll free you from Satan. he'll free you from guilt. Look, he'll free you from the law, from all these lawlessness you've been doing. He's going to free you from that, put you under a whole other system of grace because he loves you,

and you just trust him and you try, and what few mistakes you make, he's going to take him away because you've repented. You've now changed your life because you heard about this Savior. It's either that or the psychiatrist is you now have enough medication that'll keep you at ease all the time, take two of these every day, and here's your code where you operate, you know, get some folks of like-minded, sit in a circle

and talk to each other and talk about your problems, and they'll stay in that circle for years and years, and finally they'll come out of it a model citizen on planet Earth. Well, you just... Which is the most productive. Well, you just canceled 10 years. of my career because I sold to mental health facilities pharmaceuticals. But to your point, though, I mean, I did. I was in that industry.

Did you sell a lot of, by the way, did you sell a lot of pharmaceuticals? We did. We did a lot of. How many of those pharmaceuticals were aimed at behavior? Speed you up or slow you down and mellow you out. I mean, we did. I mean, I was an account rep for some antidepressants. What's interesting, but the last job I had was a drug that I sold to treat a disease

that is created by the psychiatric medications. So the medicines cause a disease, and then I sold a treatment for the disease that caused. But, now you're going down the road. I'm glad you're going down that road because I'm listening to what you're saying. You pushed pharmaceuticals, and this is going to solve the problem. But, Zach, let's face it, what was the attrition rate? What was the, what, at the end of the day? Yeah, I don't know the answer to that question because of, obviously, I didn't have contact with patients.

I mean, did it work? I'll be honest. Did it produce model citizens? I don't think that, well, the science is interesting. It's a, you know, there's studies out there are certain antidepressants that showed that the placebo is just as effective. So I never, I mean, I think there's a place for it, for sure. but in counseling as well. But as long as that counseling doesn't surplant the counselor,

John 15, which we're in, I mean, there is a role for a counselor. My translation, ESV, calls him the helper. You guys are NIV, so it probably says. It says counselor, but I just wanted to review. So why are you talking about all this? You know, in John 15, Jesus, he's fixing to die. He has his disciples there, and he says, remain in me. And he does this illustration about, I'm the,

I'm the, I mean, I'm the vine, you're the branches remain in me. By the way, while you're there, that in me tells you that you're in a position. A lot of people don't realize that when they come to Jesus, they end up through faith and bowing down to him, they will be placed in a position of in him. Yeah. And the reason for that is, is God made him who had no sin, no, no mental issues, one way or the other. Sins are, I'm just down in the depths and I don't know what's wrong with me. Yeah. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us so that, John 15, so the verse equal, so that any, in him, we might become the righteousness of God. So you end up in a position in Christ where he didn't sin. Well, you're in him.

Therefore, when God looks at you, he looks at you through the death of Jesus and his resurrection. Well, let me just to. So you brought up a good one now, James. Just to give you the conclusion, though, of what led to this conversation. He says, remain in me. And then he gets to verse 18 and he says, keep in mind if the world hates you, it hated me first,

which is when you take a stand in Jesus or bring up sin, the people in the world will start gnashing their teeth at you because all of a sudden, through guilt or whatever the reason, this is not going to be pleasant. So he gets down to verse, 26 and then he says well when the counselor comes whom I will send to you from the father

the spirit of truth who goes out from the father he will testify about me and then of course in future podcasts we'll get to chapter 16 but I just wanted to read this when he says in verse 7 but I tell you the truth it is for your good that I'm going away unless I go away the counselor will not come to you but if I go I will send him him to you. When he comes, the counselor, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin, which there's your word, Phil, and righteousness and judgment in regard to sin because men do not believe in me in regard to righteousness because I am going to the father where you can see me no longer. And in regard to judgment because the prince of this world, which you made reference to,

the evil one now stands condemned. You're not going to get that little section in less than 10 seconds. You're not going to read that. No. Chapter 16, verse 7 through 11. I'm going to tell you this. I've spent the better part of 30 years

reading that and meditating on what he said there. Well, I think it's interesting that Phil went to Galatians 5 earlier to talk about this, because, let me say this first. Like, you can have mental issues and not be a result of your sin. Like, someone may have abused you.

Yes. So that's not what we're saying. Or you have a chemical imbalance. Yeah, or there's something physically. I think, you know, yeah, what we're talking about is just the vast generalization to take everything that's sinful and put it into the camp of psychiatric problems. Or counseling situations. I mean, I was in a Bible talk one time.

and this guy was having problems with his wife. And this counselor speaks up who, now we're here to talk about Jesus, we're believers, but I knew he was a counselor for a living. And he said, you know, what I find is when you're arguing with your wife, because now he's going to give some counseling advice, you know, if you try to do it naked, that usually solves the problem.

If you try to do what, naked? I have the argument with your wife naked. Now, at first, everybody kind of chuckled. you know, and they were like, yeah. And then I just couldn't help it. I thought, well, it's been my experience that I can have just as good of an argument with clothes on or naked.

I mean, clothes are optional when it comes to arguing with your wife. Because I thought, well, what a, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Because he was just looking for a little quick fix, you know, from his perspective. I mean, trust me, if my wife's mad, she can care less whether I got clothes. zone or not. She's hot. Yeah. And so what I'll bring that up to say that it's more of a spiritual problem. And a lot of these people who are trying to fix their problems, they go to these counselors, and they give them advice like that, which is just stupid.

It's because it's behavior modification. And that's not what Jesus is talking about here. That's not the Holy Spirit. That's what I love it, Phil Redd. The contrast, the acts of the simple nature, the opposite of that is the fruit of the spirit. So love it. joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control. But it is worthy of note that the fruit is not fruit that we manufacture. It's fruit. It's his fruit, which is why the role of the Holy Spirit is so powerful. So when you read the three things that the Spirit does in John 16, well, we'll say the three primary things at least, he convicts the world about sin because we're sinful. And I equate that to our justification moment when the Holy Spirit says you're guilty

and a court of law and the penalty is death, and you need to be forgiven. That's the spirit that tells you that. And then you turn to Christ and you confess him as Lord, and you're saved. You get the blood of Jesus. But he also says he convicts us about righteousness. But why? Because he says, I'm leaving. And I think what that means is that it's easy.

Jesus has been walking with these people. He's turning water into wine. He's saying, blind man see, you know, cripple man walk. It's very easy to do the right thing when you have the Son of God walking around with you everywhere you get, right? That's easy. I can be righteous, but what, he's leaving. So he says, but, so he's coming in your sanctification as well. He's going to come and live in you, which is what all this is kind of leading up to. And you, you and him. And you and him, that's right. You're going to abide together. You can't forget that because, now look, I'm going to add to you to the

power of this. So you get to read these verses and you say, wait a minute, I gave you, God made him who had no sin, to be sin for us. so that in him, John 15 verifies that, we might become the righteousness of God. By one sacrifice, Jesus' death on a cross, all these animals, bulls, goats under the law of Moses, never took away one sin. Not big enough, not the right kind of blood. It took God himself. because by one sacrifice, I hope everybody understands this on whether you're going to a worldly counselor or you're going to Jesus. By one sacrifice, he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

you strive for perfection, but you already are perfect because of your position in Jesus. Forever. You get in Jesus, you're going to be viewed as perfect. Think about somebody on drugs and they tell you they're going to spry out and out of the control. Immorality is always in there, by the way. And you say, finally they make a decision. You mean to tell me I can be viewed by God as 100% flawlessly perfect because of my position in Christ.

And he and me and I and him. He's in me through his spirit. I will be viewed as perfect. Yeah. So you make it your goal to do what's right every time. Now watch. That's one. Here's another one.

We proclaim him. They come to us and you say, well, what's the counseling? You point him to Jesus and say, repent. Turn from your wicked ways. And he's going to give you. you a counselor. He's going to give you a counselor. The counselor. The counselor. The counselor. Look, and unlike me, I'm counseling. It's going to cost you about 200 bucks for this little set to here. But God's going to give you a counselor free. It's free of charge. By the way,

eternal life. That's free too. So health care, you know, you're paying you. That's in there. But it's eternal. It's paid for it. Yeah, it's not a government health care. This is eternal. It's a pretty good system. We proclaim him, Jesus, admonishing and teaching. everyone with all wisdom so that we may present listen everyone perfect in Christ to this end

I labor the Apostle Paul said struggling with all his energy who works in me which so powerfully works in me so the counselors work the Holy Spirit of God that's Colossians 128 yeah

yeah so if I'm viewed as perfect as low down scoundrel before I came to Jesus. A low down scoundrel. I mean, I broke moral laws. I was like a dog chasing his tail, and I meant to tell you this the other day. I looked at my age. I looked at my age, and I said, here I am. I'm 28. And I said, I never heard this story about the resurrection of the dead, me being viewed as perfect, a sorry scounder like me? Are you kidding? So I'm weighing this before I make the decision to say I'm all in.

What struck me 45, 46 years later today, I'm seated here. And when I ask someone over and over and over, this keeps coming up, How old are you? You've told me you have a lot of problems and a lot of issues. How old are you? I'm telling y'all, I would say 80% of all the people I've converted, they were between the ages of 27, 28, and 31 to 32, over and over and over.

So the reason I only bring that up, I said, why is it that they all are in the same age group that I was in? But I think what it is, and to show you about the paths we choose when we're young and foolish, when we're 18 or 19, we go down this road of sin and we build a track record without realizing it. You're building a track record, how you walk. It's a record. And man, by the time you go a decade in that thing, Round and round and round and round, the drunkenness, the drugs, the immorality, the perversion, all of that.

You put it all together and you say, I'm going around here. I'm in misery. You have a track record that you can look back at because you're 29 years old. So you look back and you say, when did I get on this path and end up here that I'm talking to some kind of shrink that's trying to get inside my head to tell me what my problems are? Well, by that time you've got a track record built, and there's no doubt about it, it's a terrible track record. And you say, I'll tell you what I'm fixing to do. Because of what I just heard, the possibility of escaping planet Earth alive and peace of mind while I'm here, I think I'm going to try this Jesus. Now, that was my thinking at 28.

And since that time, when I ask them their age, every one of them, they'll say 27, 28, 38, 31, 31, to 32, 29, 30, they're all about that age. The vast majority of them, they were at that age group. I think it's because they have a track record, and it ain't pretty. That's true. And they're saying, I'm fixed to change the way I operate. And I want to clarify something you said, too, because I meant to do this on the last podcast because we got a couple of emails on this.

When Phil says, I converted somebody, what he means is he shared the gospel with them. obviously the spirits doing the conversion. Sure. And God brought them. Yeah. So we're just participating. I'm not taking the credit. I'm just saying I'm looking back and I'm looking at all these people who are relatively

speaking. You're saying, hey. Well, people hear that and they're like, well, that's a cult. Yeah, that's not what we mean when we say that. That's the verbiage that kind of we use in our circle. Well, the explanation of it is God uses flawed people, even though he's made it's perfect, which is great point. that Colossians 1 2829 is awesome because it says to this end I labor so he's laboring like

I convert and he was already perfect struggling with all his energy which is so powerfully which so powerfully works in me so that that was his point yeah we're just we're just vehicles that we're vehicles and I think that's what he's saying with the spirit here like he's no doubt he's saying but wouldn't you agree that people with the vehicle the holy spirit in them and they live their life on planet earth. They get up because they realized, I don't think I can be good without God. Let's try him.

So they get in Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is given to them, and they look around after about, you start out, you'll be zigzagging left and right. That's the way I did. I was going like over here, back, forth, back. Well, because it's hard to make the break. Yeah, it was kind of like this. Wide swings at first, you know, evil,

good, evil good. And finally, you know, I just kept on. And I looked up after about a decade. And I said, you're not the same guy. Yeah. You know, I look back and I said, good man, when's the last time I've been drunk? And I thought, it's been six years since I've been eight years. But you see, 10 years. I think you got to sum all this. I said, this is doable. I think you got to sum all this up, though. Your original question, why do they not bring up sin? Because they don't know the source. The sort, sin to me is not as big as the source of sin, which James 316 defines, which is selfish ambition. Because we easily get the source on the other side, which is the Holy Spirit.

So, I mean, I brought up those things about the dogs, and, you know, Zach, you had a good point. You know, if I'm in the little dog area, what we call my lair, well, that dog's not going to go out there and do that because I'm sitting there, or I'm sitting there watching him. Guess what? When I leave, you know what? He's like, I just don't want to go out. Selfishly, he doesn't want to go out there because it's raining. I'm not there. Look, God's not around because, you know, from his perspective, I'm God. I control pain, freedom, luxury, food, all the essentials that he need. I control it. And I think it's the same way. What I would like to see counselors do, because

when you said to that story about your buddy, you know, that made me mad. Because he doesn't want to say what the problem is because they won't come back. Because nobody wants to hear that. Nobody wants to hear, you know what, you're the problem. You're making bad decision after bad decision. It's called sin. Everyone needs, everyone. You don't want to hear that.

No. Everyone who is contemplating following Jesus. this is the biggest missed text in all of mankind of every book that's ever been written. Solid food, you take the scriptures and you obey them. Solid food is for the mature, who by constant use, this is something that you seldom hear in the religious world, even. They've trained themselves to distinguish good from evil. the first lesson everybody has to realize, and the spirit's there to help you with this. You say because it's a, the road becomes a lot easier to walk on.

If you have constantly, like the dog, you poop on the floor, you get your butt whipped. Yeah. You say, what are you doing? You're helping him train himself to say, if you're going to take a poop, you need to get outside under some bushes. Well, the language of helper is probably not even, I mean, it's even, more. He's, he is the source of revelation. Well, that, to go back to your Colossians, one, look, he says, between good and evil. And he says, to the, this end of labor struggling with all his energy.

It, it's, it's bigger than, he's not even, it's not like, it's not like, it's not like, it heard someone say one time that, that grace was when you're, you're, you're climbing up the ladder and you get to that last wrong to heaven, you're like, I just can't get there. spirit and he gives you grace and he helps you the rest of the way no i just that's not it yeah you can't you can't even get on the ladder there's look you didn't even know there is a ladder no you that's right but i just know this you say well you know these bull boys they blow and smoke a bunch of rednecks claiming you who's saying look let me let me enlighten everybody that must be talking about you yeah let me enlighten everybody about something uh let's see what what time is it well i don't know

let my clock 12 o'clock i have no idea we're here midday So we're here midday. You say, when did you start moving around this morning? I said, I got to moving around probably 30 minutes after daylight. I'm out there. I end up in the woods. We're working on bulldozers. I'm out there looking at my water.

You say, so what are you trying to say here? I'm saying to everybody, it's already been about seven or eight hours. I'm here at 12 o'clock. I got up at daylight. You say, has there been any sin committed yet? any misstep. No? There's been no missteps.

You say, so you've been down there looking at bulldozers? They're working on that, you know, and you kind of pulled in there, brought a generator to them, and the guy's fixing the bulldozer. You went from there checking your water, see what the water going to do. You know, Dan, you ended up up here. Now I'm at this table. You say, so far today, have you sin violated the law, hurt somebody's feelings? Have you, or you attacked anybody?

No, it's all good. Everything's been good. you say, well, what about yesterday? Same thing. So I see a pattern that's developed in my own life after 45, 46 years applying these scriptures. The pattern says you can't be good without God. But with him, I've gone eight hours so far.

No sin yet. You're like, hmm, you might make it all day. Might make it all week. Just get up and do what's right. Train yourself to know the difference between good and evil. If it's evil, no, I'm not having it. I've shown evil. I embrace good.

Well, I've been doing it all day today. You say, everything's good, everything's good. But you will fall. That's what I'm saying. People immediately always go to. But I'm just saying people who say, well, no way I can do that because you're asking too much. No, I'm not. But it's the Holy Spirit inside of you.

leading you down that path. And when we do mess up, God is an interesting being. He doesn't go with past, present, and future, because he's eternal. He views everything at once. He knows our flaws,

but he knew it before it happened. But the evil one, Jace, comes along and says, you can't be good. You can't be good. Well, I think that it's kind of, we've got to be careful how we frame that because I don't think that what he's saying is,

like, it's not good in the sense of, like keeping a record. I think what's happening with this text here is he's talking about that the spirit and also in Galatians 5, the spirit of God, the Holy Spirit, the Holy Ghost is going to change the desires of your heart. He's going to transform you. So it's not a, it's not this, oh, I can't do the wrong thing, I do the right thing.

Because that's another burden. When I hear that, I think that's another burden. But Zach, human beings will tell them. themselves and they'll belittle themselves so much that they don't appreciate when they're doing good. Look, this is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are. Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God as a pattern, a walk. I'm in 1st John 3 and 1st John 1st 1st 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1. He says, look, you're going to sin. I'm there to mediate for you. I'll remove them. Confess your sins to me.

They're coming. And don't tell me you don't make mistakes from time of time. I'm just saying we take that and say, well, you can't be good all day or all week. Yeah, you can. Well, I think Zach's just saying it's not really the point. You can beat yourself up trying to never make a mistake. Yeah, we should. But we don't endorse make a mistake. But that's why the source is what, either self or spirit.

Are you led by yourself or you live by the spirit? Anyone who does not do what is right. It's not a child of God. Neither is anyone who does not love his brother. You say, so you love your brother and you make every attempt to do what's right, but you're not watching. Have a little step you're taking. You're just living a lifestyle of being good. It's innate.

And you've learned that from the scriptures. Well, we've opened up another can of worms, but we're out of time today. So come back next time and we'll finish this conversation. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. Don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.