Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1293 | The Litmus Test for Identifying False Prophets Among Us & Leading Through Sacrifice

Episode Date: March 19, 2026

Jase spots a bug crawling in a stranger’s hair and steps in to remove it himself, triggering a mix of relief, shock, and secondhand embarrassment. Al and Zach join Jase’s attempt to detect a subtle message from a Pink Floyd hit about who—or what—is really influencing us. The guys lay out a clear, practical litmus test for recognizing false prophets, especially when faith starts to look more like a business than truth. They confront the real damage that can be done when spiritual voices miss the moment people need them most, and how to hold onto what’s real when everything else feels twisted. In this episode: 1 John 4, verses 1–6; 1 John 2, verses 15–17; 1 John 3, verse 13; John 10, verses 10–18; Ezekiel 34; Galatians 5; Jude 1, verse 12; Isaiah 56; Mark 8, verses 33–36; 1 Peter 5, verses 1–4 “Unashamed” Episode 1293 is sponsored by: ⁠https://myphdweightloss.com⁠ — Find out how Al lost 80+ pounds. Schedule your one-on-one consultation today by visiting the website or calling 864-644-1900 and mention "AL" ⁠https://ruffgreens.com⁠ — Get a FREE Jumpstart Trial Bag for your dog today when you use promo code Unashamed! ⁠http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/⁠ — Sign up now for free, and join the Unashamed hosts every Friday for Unashamed Academy Powered by Hillsdale College Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/at-home-with-phil-robertson/id1835224621⁠ Listen to Not Yet Now with Zach Dasher on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or anywhere you get podcasts. 0:00 Jase’s Pink Floyd Research 4:45 Little Man Steals the Show With a Bear Story 9:30 Yard Work Theology & “Free Fertilizer” 16:23 Sudden Tragedy & Grieving a Plane Crash Loss 22:58 Jase Gives a Stranger a Helping Hand 29:33 We are From God 36:37 What Defines a False Teacher? 41:55 The Litmus Test for Your Theology 49:00 The True Shepherd Leads by Sacrifice — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So welcome back to Unashamed. It's been an odd beginning for me and Maddie because we've just been watching it all happen, Maddie. Jace came in listening to Pink Floyd. Zach was listening to Elvis. Yeah, I was. Caught in a trap. I was caught in a trap. I was caught in a trap. Suspicious minds. I said that could have been the theme for our movies. we're doing that.

I was actually doing research. Oh, you were researching? Well, no, the song, look, for years, because this rock and roll vibe was thrust on us, not by choice. Because my dad really love classic rock. And so when we would be in the duck call factory, I don't know, Al, if you ever visited that duck call factory.

I was there when you were still trying to get out of your pampherson. You're peated in the diaper. Yeah, I was, trust me. I spent time in the... I think Jay's forgets that you basically raised him the first... He has no idea. He's only alive because of me. I know he had a rough patch, but I was thinking about...

The man is only alive because of me. I feel like, you know, that part where all the machinery was, that's really where I hung out and Phil would turn that music up so loud. But I never listened to the words. never listen to them so it's like well we were young too

so it didn't quite have the impact now that you're a but now as I'm older I realize a lot of those songs were a cry for help in the world because I've been thinking about this you know how many times

this world is mentioned it's like the world hating you and don't the three aspects of the world, the cravings of simple man, the boasting of what they do and say, and the lust of the eyes, all of those things. And so today, we were talking about false teachers the last time we were here. And I think we tend to think they're always way off somewhere, but they're among us. I mean, you don't realize it.

It's camouflage. It's hard to spot them. And so anyway, I was thinking that everybody has a shepherd. You know, because when Jesus said, I am the shepherd, and I'm listening to this series from John Tyson, Zach's buddy. I would say our friend, but he was only on Zach's podcast after it was my idea. But, and it's really good. If you focus on Jesus, I'm listening to that series,

and their sister church, they're doing a series on the questions of Jesus. So I have to listen to that every Sunday no matter what, because I love it. But anyway, I said all that to say, it made me think of that pink Floyd song, brain damage, because that little phrase where he said, there's someone in my head, but it's not me. And I was like, what was that song really about? because that's the only line I remember because I was had that idea of everybody has a shepherd

everybody's being influenced by something so I broke it down but what I didn't realize is they wrote that song about I think their lead singer had a nervous breakdown a mental breakdown and so they wrote a song about it and so if AI is correct it was kind of due to fame and isolation and just the world trying to conform you. That's what got my attention. So I thought, oh, I want to check those words out.

And I think you'll see that in the song. But anyway, that was the story on the song. What I was going to tell you is because we, since we're spirit-filled, spirit-led disciples of Jesus, it's our responsibility to introduce the true shepherd. which is he referred to himself, Al, as the good shepherd. Don't underestimate that word good. Yeah. Because you're going to be shepherded by something or someone.

I would go with the good one. And so we declare that. So I had a little story I was going to tell you. This really excited me. And I don't know what it means, but maybe y'all can discern. I have a picture, but I can't show it because it's involving. little man and I protect his identity. So they had this thing at their little school,

and it was, which I found this fascinating, four-year-olds, and they were to get up, here's the class project, and share an adventure. I thought, man, that's pretty ambitious for four-year-olds. I mean, I actually asked Missy, I was like, they actually think this will work? And so I didn't know what happened. I just knew, Missy said, well, yeah, I got to come up with something because it's tomorrow.

So she sends me a picture of him going into school, but he had a poster board up. And it said, little man and J. Rock's Bear Adventure. It had a title. And Missy had asked me for all the pictures that, you know, I'd, take of me and him. And she had four different pictures of me and a little man with this bear. You're like, with a bear, ooh, do tell. Well, my brother, I think I shared this story when Corey was there.

My brother built one of the largest statues of a bear on his property. When you say built, do you like it, like a carving? He does have carvings. He had it built. This one's metal. This thing is iron. It's an iron. Aaron Bear with claws, because when I shared when Corey was on the podcast,

he got Jason. He actually got me, and I have two scars in my lower back region. I mean, I bled like I had been shot with two arrows from the claws. Because I little man almost tripped and fell, and I reached to get him. And when I straighten my back, I just, which in his mind, he thought, run, run. The bear got me. Yeah, the bear got me.

He's like, mean old bear. So anyway, so I'm telling you all this. This is where the story gets good. So it has the pictures. And so she later sent me a text of a picture that the teacher had taken with little man in front of the students. It was just him. He was holding the poster, and he's talking.

He's like mouth open mid-thousand. sentence. Here's what I found fascinating. There's the classroom, they're all sitting on the floor in a semicircle. And these kids, when I'm saying are hanging on every word, I blew up the picture and looked at these kids, mouths are open, eyes are wide. And I thought, he's creating another J's. Another Jace. I thought, I've done something right here.

This kid is telling a story, and he has managed to do, which I think the teacher took the picture to say, look at this. Because she had probably never experienced that the entire year. It was just full attention from a classroom of four-year-old. That's funny. I thought it was incredible. It was pretty amazing. I have no idea what he said. because we go visit the bearer.

I'm sure he did like you. He just made up most of it. He's learned now how to just spread it. We may have to add Silas to little man Silas to this young man. So now I've been doing a theme for the grandkids and little man. Now when I do an adventure, I film it, you know, like in edit and then I send it if I'm not with them. So they, so Missy's visited them. So she gave me the report.

She said, I shared it last night to her because yesterday I caught a bunch of fish at Willys, which was, I felt a little bad because he was working on his place, you know, still cleaning up from the ice storm burning. And I'm out there catching fish. He never came over. He just looked at me. I know what he was thinking. You sorry, you're rascal.

I'm out here working. You're catching all my fish. Well, we talked about that on the podcast. because, though, he does love doing that. He has since he was a kid. So I think he's enjoyed, I mean, obviously it's been a lot of work, but he likes that kind of stuff. He used to clean up all the mom's stuff for her.

Because dad, you know, we talked about his philosophy on yard work, which, you know, he said the frost will get it. He didn't mind yard work. He didn't like lawnmowers, hell. Yeah. He didn't do yard work either, Jay. He wasn't into that. Well, it was a problem with cutting, scissors, razors, lawnmower blades.

There was a pattern there. That's right. There's no cutting. Yeah. Now, if you want to build a big fire out there, no problem, but don't cut it. You've been talking on the podcast recently about jealousy. We're talking about brothers, Can and Abel in the Bible. And I have to say, the only time I've ever, I don't really struggle with jealousy except for one small thing.

And that's you, dad, and sigh have always had a metabolism that seems to be unworldly or something, supernatural. You've always been able to just stay trim and... I've never figured it out. Burn the fat, I know. And so, unfortunately, for me and Willie and Jeff, we seem to get some mom's DNA. But I don't want to blame her, throw her into the bus because I've tried every diet. I've tried the paleo, the Weight Watchers, the fasting, the Nutris System. And you know the drill, right?

you lose some weight, then you gain it back. And then you go really good and then you go really bad. And so we've done the yo-yo, but now I finally found something that works. It's a lifestyle change. It's really helped me. It's Ph.D. weight loss. Here's me at the beginning of the program. Here's me now, 75 to 80 pounds, depending on the week, less.

So obviously, I'm doing better, feeling better off most of my meds. I'm exercising regularly. No more CPAP machine, which is a great blessing as well. So you can do the same thing. But you've got to call them and you got to jump in. If you call right now, they'll give you two free weeks in the program, and they'll pay for your food so you can finally see real results without all the trial and error. If you're done with the yo-yo dieting and you want clarity, call Ph.D. Weight Loss Now and mention Al.

No more guessing, just answers. 864-644-1900 and say, Al. That's 864-644-1900. Or you can visit my PhDwateWatLoss.com. I'm actually in the process of getting out of doing my own yard work. I've done mine for years. You guys all made fun on me. But now I finally decided this past week.

Jill's like it's just, I'm not good at it. Our yard looks like a junkyard. So she's talked to me, I'm going to pay somebody for the first time this year. There's a difference. There's a difference in landscaping and yard work and then throwing a bunch of junk. in it. Yeah, I'm going to have the whole thing cleaned up. I ordered, I'm ordering some trees from our sponsor, Fast Growing Trees, but I got those coming. The guy said, I just look, here's the price. It doesn't include the plants. So I'm ordering my own plants, but he's going

to do the rest. So I've got a guy coming out next week. So we're, well, let's face it. You've done it because you're cheap and you don't want to spend the money on it, which, and, you know, yeah, that's fair. That's part of it. Sounds like to me, what you described had nothing to do managing the lawn. You're just, you're doing what. You're doing what. what most, I think deep down you're wanting to be a redneck, which is one of the qualifications is you got to put a bunch of junk in your yard. Yeah, that is true. Stuff on your porch and you got to get you a couple old appliances that don't work anymore. You need to take one of your cars and put it up on blocks and just leave out.

Yeah, it's just got to sit there. Well, truth be told, when I lived, whenever I lived at the golf course, the one that, When I hired Willie for that brief period of time, which I'd love to say he used to work for me, we were burning trash in the backyard on the 18th green, me and Willie. Big old bonfire. His golfers are coming by like, what in the world this happened? So we represented wealth. I'm not opposed to that.

I think, I mean, Missy do a big fit because every year I would burn the leaves in the yard. And she's like, well, there's big old black. You're staining our yard. I'm like, I'm fertilizing for free. matter can't be created or destroyed unless you're God. I'm just turning that into fertilizer and it'll come back. Just give it a minute. And basically, that's how the Almighty's always done it.

You know, he clears land by the lightning strike, you know. Fires happen, and then you look through up. It's showing you what new creation is all about. Yeah. So, oh, I preached to her a sermon. So. You had to go book, chapter, verse. owner. Yeah, it's borderline. It was close that I'm even here. I had, this morning I'm studying

misses out of town. All of a sudden, I hear these two guys talking really loud, and I look back there, and they're cleaning my pool. But it's two young boys, and they're talking so loud, I thought, well, if I'd have been asleep, they would have awakened me. And so I looked at the clock because I thought I mean they're on my property I realize they're doing a job for me but they were like being really loud and I thought this is kind of weird so I cracked the door to see if I could hear any four letter words because I thought if I hear one it's one thing to be loud because I just thought if I was if I was doing their job I would think I'm on somebody else's property I would show a certain amount of decor and but I cracked the door and but I cracked the door and

and they were talking about dogs. And I never heard a four little word, but if I heard one, Al, I was fixed to give a son. You see what I mean? I was going to walk out there. You had one ready. I had it ready. And I thought, well, and so then I went and got ready to come here, put my clothes on. And I said, you know what?

I think I'm going to do it anyway. And so I walked out there and they were gone. You know, it's funny. Because you talk about every opportunity about ministry. And this whole section we've been in in 1st John 4 has been about, you've mentioned false teachers. It's been about there's definitely people are trying to lead them astray. And John's trying to get them back to the central message of Jesus being the Messiah.

But this whole week, we've been down there in Gulf Shores. And you never know, you go back and forth. And so we have friends down there, but you never know when ministry opportunities are going to be there. I've shared the gospel with a lot of people and had a lot of Jesus conversations. But this week, two of our friends died in a plane crash Saturday night. And some other dear friends were here at the house when they got the call that something was wrong. We didn't know what it was. They left suddenly to go to be with the wife.

And we didn't find out until later that night. But it's just been, you know, the agony and grief of a sudden death like that in a community and families. and I've dealt with a lot through the years being a passion, but it never prepares you for that moment of shock and grief at the same time. And it's really been tough. But so we go back to our old house last night. We're looking at some stuff there because we're selling it. And I see my neighbor in the yard.

And so I go over and I said, hey, how are things going? And he said, you don't know, do you? And I was like, no, no what? And he said, his wife had passed. She was paralyzed and she had had a lot of health issues, but I had no idea. And so it was like we'd already been dealing with this all week. And then I was just so stunned. I said, I am so sorry, Jeff.

And so we're talking. He's not a real religious guy, but she was, you know, a believer and the sweetest person. But he was tell me, so he told me about how it all went down. And he was telling me about he said, well, you know, she had this lady preacher. That's the way he described her minister, I guess, who came to see her and pray. for it. And I was like, well, you know, she's into that. So that's fine. So he's telling me the story. And he said, but then she said, God gave me a word. And he, he, he, he, he, she's saying this to his wife. And he, she said, you know, your penance is now over. Of course, you know, she's been paralyzed

for 10 years from a doctor's mistake. And there was a lawsuit. It's just a terrible situation. And I mean, it set him my neighbor off. He, he, he just, he told her, he said, all right, you're done. You're out of here. And she said, well, I'm not through praying. He said, no, you're through. He said, you know, this woman is the most amazing woman, the toughest woman in the world and the sweetest person in the world. And you're talking about her paying her penins. And I mean, he literally ran her out of the room. Of course, and it made me so mad because this is what you're talking about with this false stuff about how do we know whether a spirit is, is the spirit of God or some spirit of falsehood. But no matter what your deal was and what you think in that moment, as someone

who supposedly is a leader, first as a witness to him who's not a believer, but also to this woman who is near death, that's the last thing you should ever say. Whether you thought it was true or not, but one is not, you know, somehow to say that, you know, everything that befalls this person is somehow because God is making her pay a penance. And now he's told you that it's over. And it just, it made me angry because I was in that moment trying to provide something for this man who had lost his wife, who I know is mad at God, had been mad at God for 10 years because of what happened to her in the beginning. And so I've been working this relationship because, you know, I love it.

He's my neighbor. He looks after my place. And one person comes in like this with some kind of whatever that was and can just train wreck, you know, someone else trying to do the work of God. It just, and it makes me furious at falsehood and to see. you said, Jays earlier, and it's among supposedly the people of God.

And this woman was an amazing example of Christian faith in spite of terrible things that had happened to her. And this man, and I told him again last night, I said, I talk about you when I speak around the country. I said, I know you don't believe yet.

But you are an inspiration because you could have just stuck your wife in a home and then went off and lived your life. But you didn't. You have taken care of her for 10 years. And I mean, I'm talking about taking care of her. I said, that's an inspiration. I said, you taught me things, Jeff.

And so, you know, but that's what you do as a believer. You know, your role is to help people and help them find Christ. Not to just say stupid things that are ungodly, you know. So I don't know. It just incents me that all week we've been doing this. And he told me this story. And you said that about falsehood. And I was like, that is just straight up falsehood.

Yeah. And inappropriate on top of that. So, Jase, you got two little small dogs. Don't be deceived, though. I know they seem. I thought they were small. They seem small. They might weigh three or four pounds apiece.

But if you heard them in the middle of the night, you would think, oh, stay away. Fierce, fierce. Unfortunately, the one that has good manners also has instincts. The other, I'm not sure what to say. Well, no matter what, whether manners or instincts, are there. We love our pets, right? And that's why we love Rough Greens. It's a great product. Our good friend, Dr. Dennis Black, came with this product. And as dogs get older, they get a little bit slower and a little pickier. And sometimes their stomachs just get off, which creates problems, right?

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if you want to try this product, we encourage you to do so. Get a free jumpstart trial bag for your dog. You discover the shipping. Go to roughgreens.com. Use the discount code unashamed. Rough greens, we make any dog food better. Well, it's, yeah, it's hard to know. I think we live in our own little bubbles.

But that made me think of what happened to me on my last event when I was telling you all about going to surprise Arizona. It was such a weird trip, which I didn't. didn't tell y'all this part of the trip but i had uh when i got to the airport that morning i was in line and about three people in front of me there's this nice woman well-to-do and i looked and saw something moving on her head and i was like what is that and it was a large insect and there's two guys in front of me and I thought

what are we going to do here of course we're all looking because I looked up at them they're looking at the same thing I'm looking at but they're not moving and I thought this woman's by herself obviously

because nobody is right next to her and I thought you know what I think sometimes you just got to stand up and be a man so I started walking toward her and I said don't panic but she didn't turn around and I got you know I was getting closer

I was like don't panic so she turned and looked at me of course now I've lost the visual on the insect I said don't panic there is an insect in your hair and I'm going to get it out for you right now

just remain calm and look on her face she turned her hat around and I just surgically went in there with my fingers and grabbed the insect What's funny about this, because she was trying to look at it, I was like, you don't want to see it, and it flew in your hair.

I was like, it's not because you're not keeping yourself up. I was like trying to deal with the, because now everyone's watching me remove said insect from her hair. Here's the funny part. I go to the trash can and I like flip it in the trash can. Well, it just takes flight, and everybody went, Ha! I guess all the women did that.

I didn't hear any guys in that. So I'm just saying that was a very awkward thing, and I only tell you that story, because when I got to the event, it's a men's event, but we walked through the back door, and there's about 30 women who are cooking all the food,

food and I thought and I said something I'm like here's where all the real work's happening y'all came up here to serve 1,500 men and I mean look they were sweating and you could just tell it was a workhouse so I was trying to encourage them but one of the ladies kind of started following me and she said I I hate to ask this but you are my husband's favorite and I'd like to take a picture you know But when she said that, I said, well, what's that? He didn't win you over? Because she said, you're my husband's favorite. Yeah, I was like, he didn't win you over.

And she said, well, he died two weeks ago. And, oh, well, now all of a sudden I was like, because I was making a joke. And she got kind of teared up. And then I just said, and you're up your serving two weeks later? I mean, it just kind of hit me. I thought, wow. And so I said, well, I'll tell you what. Before we take a picture, so I just said a prayer with her.

And, of course, she started crying. I got a little emotional myself. And, of course, I'm with the group of pastors he's putting this on. And they weren't aware that this had happened, which was kind of weird, but it is a big church. And so they're like, we're on it. But I thought, wow. you know

it just it really made me think like I told you those two stories in contrast which one was awkward but the other was awkward with way more ramifications you know yeah and it moved me

because I always try to find the one person there's usually one person on these trips that you think God lined this up and I think that was it so well and there's a you know there's a certain

when something happened suddenly like that, there's a sort of a process that people have to go through to accept it. And so it's a day-by-day thing. And people are, there are people gifted at helping people get there. But it's tough. I mean, it's tough when you don't get a chance to say goodbye.

Yeah, exactly. I wasn't like this woman was older. I mean, she was a lot younger than me, but I didn't ask for the details, but I thought, man, what a warrior. She's up here. When she probably was there because he did love it, and she probably already agreed to do that, and she was doing that to honor him, I would bet, I would bet, if, you know, it sounds like.

So, stuff like that impresses me about people anyway, the idea of just able to see, you know, Christ and to see the idea of honor and legacy through the pain of losing somebody. I mean, it's just so hard. You know, that's the moment of true. I mean, look, death is never friendly, you know. My whole point about saying that is people need a shepherd, and we're followers of Jesus, and we represent that. Yeah.

But life's messy. I mean, you know, it takes courage to have awkward conversations and be vulnerable enough to be available and have conversations with people. Hey, by the way, I want to remind everybody, too, that we are doing another course with Hillsdale, which is incredible. It's on ancient Christianity. So if you want to know about the history of our faith, this is an incredible course. It's free to you. Definitely wants you guys to sign up. And if you finish the course, we're going to have a drawing for hopefully we're going to have a little surprise for those who finish the course. They have an opportunity to be entered into a drawing. But you can sign up for free at Unashamed. for hellsdale.com. I wanted to read this. I know we're in 1st John 4. I mean, maybe we should read that first,

but it made me think of this John 10, and I wanted to remind you of what he had written before. But in 1st John 4, where he says, so he talks about the Spirit of the Antichrist, we read that, I think, in verse 2. Yeah, we read 1 through 6. Yeah. So when he gets to,

those last couple of verses, and he brings up this idea of world, it's four times in four and five. It says, you dear children are from God and have overcome them, which is another word he uses a lot in first John. Yeah, yeah.

Because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world, which you had already defined what the world's all about in chapter 2, 15 through 17, But he also said in verse 13 of chapter 3, Do not be surprised my brothers if the world hates you. And that is directly from John 15.

So then it says, They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world. And the world listens to them. So you see the point about someone is shepherding you. Yeah. We are from God, which I think, think it's an interesting phrase if you're if you're kind of outside the context of it because you're immediately think well aren't they from god too but you got to remember this is all from

kind of the context of we're children of god you know chapter 2 28 and we do what's right because we've been born of him so it's this new it's in the context of this new birth we are from God and whoever knows God listens to us, but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood. And so, you know, I talked about that Jesus being the door from John 10, but then he goes on to say in verse 11 of chapter 10, he says, because you remember when he said the thief in verse 10 comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I have come that they may have a life

and have it to the full. Well, who's the thief? Who are these thieves? Now, in this context, I believe it's these religious leaders who, same ones that got mad in John 9 because Jesus healed on the Sabbath. Remember all that? Yeah.

And when you throw in Ezekiel 34, you see this prediction of these false shepherds being made right through God, producing the ultimate shepherd. It's a fascinating read. I think we read it when we were in John 10. And so that is the groundwork for I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns some.

the sheep. So there's kind of three categories for false shepherds, the robber, the thief, and the hired hand. And the hired hand is not necessarily evil, but it makes you, you know, Jesus has a way of making you think. What's the problem with the hired hand? Well, he's only doing this to get paid. Yeah, his heart's not in it. Yeah, he don't care about the sheep. Right. If a wolf comes, what's he doing? He's getting the sheep. in between him and the wolf. Because they're not valuable, right? Right, right.

I mean, that's the point. The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep, so when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. Jesus, again, I am the good shepherd.

And this goes in with where we're at. 1st John 4, 6 about listening to voices. I know my sheep and my sheep know me. Just as the father knows me and I know the father. To me, this gets heavy with that statement. Because he's comparing our relationship to Jesus with his and the father. And the whole reason I wanted to read this

is the next couple of verses. because then he's going to get to this love, which is going to be introduced in 1st John 4. Then he says, verse 16, I have other sheep that are not of this pen. Every scholar would tell you that that's the Gentile world. That's us. I must bring them also.

They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. And now look what he does. Look where he goes after we have this relationship just as I and the father about listening to the voice and knowing each other. Then verse 17, the reason my father loves me, then he brings up the love idea, is that I lay down my life only to take it up again. And this is one of my favorite verses in the Bible, verse 18. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down. of my own accord, which is the definition of love, God's love.

I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again, this command I received my father. I was just thinking about false shepherds and false teachers, which is a real threat. Here's my question, because we all grew up in a, I remember we were kids, that accusation was thrown around quite a bit. In fact, I remember my dad was called a false teacher, by a lot of people that we would went to church with.

And so it's kind of a weird thing, because it's a real threat on one end, but then it's also an accusation that is thrown around very loosely. You know, when somebody's off on their theology, you know, you throw out the heretic label or, you know, or the, you're the, I call it the heretic police. And they're just, but you remember, like if you got outside of the line of the church of Christ back in the early days,

um, teaching things like grace, they taught the gospel of grace, they would have called you a false teacher. And they would have marked you. They actually used that term. You know, he's been marked and things like that.

So I don't know how do you guys, how do y'all kind of decipher what is the difference between someone who's been called a false teacher and someone who is actually a false teacher? Therein lies the whole issue. And that's why I was saying you get into it with over the course of 2,000 years since these things were written. You had plenty of opportunities. for people to continue down both false roads and then also just prideful places where everybody's a false teacher.

I mean, there are some whole groups of people, some churches that their whole mission is to call out everybody else in the religious world who's wrong. I mean, we see these groups out there that they kind of make a name for themselves. And that goes against the whole spirit of the entire Holy Spirit in the Bible because you're not you're never winning anybody all you're doing is trashing everybody so you know it can't be from god so well you know yeah i think if they don't care for the sheep that when people are getting hurt that doesn't matter that there's you know those three things of the world that won that pride of life there's some people in powerful positions in churches that have this pride as in

you know, we're the only one's going to make it. And I mean, whoever's around this power structure. And it's like that kind of attitude seems to be in contrast to what Jesus is describing about, I'm the door, all are welcome. I'm the shepherd. I lay down my life for the sheep. I mean, he's treating the sheep as valuable. And it seems like most people empower, and I'm talking about just not in the church in any powerful role, tend to think the sheep are expendable as long as I maintain my power and control.

Yeah. And part of it, Zach, is keeping it at the simple. You remember when we started this conversation, we went back, Jason went back to Galatians 5, and we said, you know, look, it's pretty, when we talk about the Holy Spirit, I mean, the Bible keeps it fairly simple. It's gotten complicated from man, but the Bible is pretty simple. You got a list here of sinful behavior, and then you got a list of fruit from the spirit. And if you can keep those contrasts there, that's pretty much what you can see and know. What we've done is, and I mentioned this when we talked about it back then, we create these whole doctrinal things of sinfulness that, you know, you can take the Bible and twist it into whatever

you want to. And that's what a lot of people have done. And then you got all these rules that are, it's just like what the Pharisees did. You know, you add the add-ons, I call them. And then that's who they get after people with. And that's why all of us know that so much of our audience, we've had to spend a lot of time trying to tell people and encourage people to find community, you know, outside of just this podcast, because we know we all need that in our families. I've seen it this week, the need for a community. But at the same time, how many people have told y'all because they certainly have told me that they've had so many bad experiences in churches and and with the leadership of churches and just you know terrible situations that the one guy told me

he said i love jesus but i loath the church and i was like that made me so sad because i've the church has done so much good for me so you know it's but it's what you're talking about that those experiences are what has hardened the heart of many people well i think that when you The third label out there is super dangerous, particularly if it's, if the, if the, the accusation is they have the wrong theology or your, or whatever you could consider to be the right doctrine. And then they're off on a particular subject. Then you just, I mean, just come after them with everything you have, calling them names. I mean, we've all received these comments from even the people that listen to this podcast before. Not many, but we do receive some. and that's why we always kind of caveat I could be wrong

I mean like we're these are this is what yeah there you can't defend these these people because to me that's not being Christlike no but my point is

is is if that's the litmus test for a false teacher then we're all excluded because nobody has 100% correct theology if you do I'd like to know who you are because I'll follow what you're doing if you can convince me that you're 100% correct in your interpretation of the scripture.

But there is, like, part of scripture is that God does he just spell it out, everything out for us. And I think that's intentional, by the way. But I think you mentioned, were you in Ezekiel, you said? Was that Ezekiel 34? But I'm going to push back on one thing you're saying. You said no one has 100% theology, correct. But there are people who think they do. Yeah.

So that's just a fact. Well, that knows the ones I get really nervous about. If you can't say I could be wrong, then I get really nervous around you. And I'm probably not going to follow you, to be honestly. But I will say this, the litmus test for me, and I think the litmus test in Scripture, is more about how do they treat the body. The great passage is equal 34. It's shepherds who get fat on the.

offering of others. They feed themselves. They're not even looking at the people around them. One of my friends who was a major in the Army Rangers, he was just telling me this last week, invited us over for dinner. Him and his wife cooked this amazing meal for us. And he was telling me this story one time of when one of his superiors got in line and ate before his men ate. And they were in Afghanistan somewhere. And my buddy went up there and kind of broke protocol. and he essentially rebuked his superior for eating before his men ate. And he said, you don't do that. A leader does not eat before his men eat.

The leader eats last. And I thought, man, what a good picture of a shepherd. A shepherd eats last. Not in Ezekiel 34. The shepherds are feeding themselves. There's also passage in Jude 1 that kind of echoes this. It says, this is Jude 112. well, these are hidden reefs at your love feast.

As they feast with you without fear, shepherds feeding themselves, or again in Isaiah 56, the dogs have a mighty appetite. They never have enough, but they are shepherds who have no understanding, they have all turned to their own ways, each to his own gain.

I think that's the caveat. So when you are looking at ministry leaders and you're looking at teachers and you're looking at shepherds, look at their ministry, look at the fruit of their life, Is, are they elevating themselves at the expense of the body? Are they using people?

That's one of the reasons why the prosperity gospel is such a dangerous, and that is a heretical gospel, give to me, you know, and I'm going to go buy an airplane with your money, but give to me to prove that you are, you know, that you're loved by God or that you want to be blessed by God, and then that person accumulates all that wealth. I mean, that is a shepherd feeding themselves. And as a shepherd in the church that I serve at, that is a very sobering warning that I constantly think about.

Like, I do not want to be caught up in that category of these guys in Ezekiel 34. I don't want to be that guy. Well, I want to say this because you made me think a couple podcasts ago we talked about when Peter makes this profound statement that you're the son of God. and all of a sudden that sowed the seed for who would be the greatest among them. And then a few verses later, when Jesus outlined the plan, I'm going to be arrested, rejected, die, be buried, come back, and then Peter's like, no. And which, you know, when you look at the Greek language on all that,

it's literally like he got in front of Jesus saying, I'm going to stop you. and he's like, get behind me, Satan, because you have the things of the mind, the things you're focused on are coming from men, humans, and not God. Remember that? Yeah, in Mark's account, you know, you made me think of, it kind of goes along with what we're talking about. In Mark's account, let's see, I wrote this down some, I took a picture of, you said,

why did Peter, why did he get that wrong on what the Son of God was supposed to look like? Because he just said he, and he was a revelation from God himself, Jesus said that. Why was he so wrong? Because he thought that the Messiah, here they are, under Roman rule, was going to liberate them. They were after freedom. And this was in the questions of Jesus sermon that I was talking about I heard. And because they want the power. Yeah.

And they want to prosper. They have a power over them. And their whole idea of Messiah, if you have on your mind the things of men, it kind of looks like that 1st John 21st, John 215. You're like, well, we want to be free. We want to have the power to do what we want. We want to prosper, and we want to be honored. So we want to have this oppression lifted,

which is not necessarily a bad thing, but it's a physical, you're looking at the physical world. And so in Mark's account, when Jesus responds to that, it's the same story, 833, when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter, get behind me Satan. You do not have in mind the things of God, but things of man. All right. But then watch.

Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples. He thought, okay, let's get everybody, huddle up. Disciples, crowd. Listen, if anyone would come after me, he must deny himself. Which is the opposite of this narrative that whatever calls Peter to say, that's not going to happen. He must take up his cross and follow me. Whoever wants to save his life will lose it.

Because that's what he just said. I'm going to be rejected. I'm going to be arrested. And just like John 10, I'm going to give my life willingly. Save his life will lose it. But whoever loses his life from me in the gospel will save it. And so then here's the question. Here's a question Jesus asked.

what good is it for a man to gain the whole world and yet forfeit his very being or soul there's a good Jesus question yeah it is because I'm tying it in with the world Peter had in his mind we want all this for now and look nothing's changed I mean even look at the nation of Israel they're still looking for that freedom, honor, but any country, you know, that's the goal.

And so you say, well, what did Jesus, what was his point? He asked another question, if anyone is ashamed of me in my words, I mean, that's the name of this podcast. In this adulterous and sinful generation, the son of man will be ashamed. named of him when he comes in his father's glory with his powerful angels. So I wrote this down because you had the four things that was in the mind of Peter, that you know, freedom for the nation, power for the nation, prosperity, honor. And then Jesus answers with arrested, rejected, suffering. He had another word, but I put humiliation,

because he was talking about the death on the cross. It wasn't just that he died on a cross. They were humiliating him, not honoring him on the cross. And I think that's the difference in mindset. But my point is when he says, he didn't just say if anyone is ashamed of me. That's one thing.

He's the shepherd. We know his voice. He knows us. But it says of me and my words. I think the criteria number one for a false teacher is they're not focused on Jesus in his words. They're not listening. Here's another key aspect of it.

Let me pull this up real quick, thinking about it. This is in, I think first or second Peter. I think it's First Peter 5. Because this is a description. It's kind of an interesting passage about shepherds and elders. And I'll tell you a story around this when I was hit. I hit this verse one time when I had a lunch with a guy. And he wanted me to, this is First Peter 5.

He wanted me to join his church and to be an elder. And we had been attending. But I was like, I don't, we just started attending. I was like, I don't really know a lot about your church yet. It was a small church. And I just said, let me sit for a little bit. And the more I got involved in this church, I realized that this guy had built this thing around his personality. and everybody in the church was dependent on him.

And so we went out to lunch and he basically said to me, he said, hey, I really need your help. He said, every Moses needs his Aaron. And I was like, ooh. I said, I wouldn't sit well. I said, let me stop you right there. I said, I said, I ain't nobody's Aaron. I said, but on the flip side, I don't want to be anybody's Moses either.

And I said, I don't think that's what biblical eldership looks like. He said, well, God called me to plant this church. He gave me a vision and all this. I said, no, no, no. And this is common language, by the way, but I don't believe the Bible teaches. God doesn't get, there's no, like, hierarchy in the priesthood, right? No. It's a priesthood of believers.

Like, you didn't get any special vision that I don't have access to. I got access to the same word of God you have access to. And I said, I won't say his name. I said, you've set this church up where it is ripe for pastoral abuse. And consequently, two months later, that he was arrested for him. using someone in the church. But this is the verse I read to him. I said, notice how what happens when Peter, who is, who had apostolic authority, and this is, people debate this, but I don't believe apostolic secession continued. I think once they laid hands, the people they laid hands on,

after that generation, you know, that type of authority was gone. So when Peter writes, when he writes a letter, it's called scripture, right? So this is from First Peter, to think about him as having this authority. But listen to how he addresses the elders. He said, I exhort the elders among you as a fellow elder. So Peter comes down off of his apostolic authority when he's addressing the elders and the shepherds of the church. You see him, he's coming off of his platform, so to speak, and he's coming down to the level of the elders. He's saying, I'm addressing you as a fellow elder. and then he just exhorts them to be ready. He said, as a witness of the sufferings of Christ,

as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed, shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercise oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly as God would have you. Not for shameful gain. There's that. Don't feed yourselves and get fat. That's not the point, but eagerly,

not domineering over those that you're in charge of, but being examples of the flock, and this, I love this part. And when the chief shepherd appears, you'll receive an unfading crown of glory. I love the fact that the way Peter addresses the fellow elders, he flattens that authority structure out. And then he says, we're not here to get fat. We're here to actually prepare the body for when the chief shepherd, the lead pastor comes. There's a lead pastor.

His name is Jesus. When he comes and says, so what does the shepherd look like that's not a fault? teacher or a false shepherd, he looks a lot like Jesus. What does Jesus look like? It's the verse you started with. What did Jesus say? Nobody takes my life. I lay it down. I lay it down by my own will. So a biblical shepherd doesn't look like someone who is consuming from the body. He actually looks like someone who's laying down his life for the body. Sounds a whole lot like Jesus. That's what a biblical shepherd is. I think that's good. And that's a good word to finish on because we're out of time. think that's what John is doing, by the way, Zach, and first, second, third John, he is

speaking to them as an elder as well. And that's why he's, you know, making these points. So we'll get into it again. Next time, I'm unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.