Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1340 | A Marine Veteran Connects UFOs, Giants & Demons in a Wild Biblical Theory

Episode Date: May 25, 2026

Jase, Al, and Zach welcome Marine veteran, Mighty Oaks founder, and author Chad Robichaux back to talk about UFO’s, the world’s most dangerous game, demons, angels, and spiritual warfare. Jase and Zach find themselves on the same side of several arguments about the spiritual world. Chad gives families a powerful reminder to celebrate freedom with joy while teaching kids to remember the warriors who fought, bled, and died for it, and he gives a quick look at his new military thriller “Riptide.” In this episode: 1 John 5, verse 18; Genesis 6; Jude, verses 14–15; Daniel 10; Psalm 82; Genesis 11; Genesis 12; Matthew 16, verses 13–19; 1 Peter 3; 1 Corinthians 2; Luke 15; Hebrews 13, verse 2; Hebrews 11, verses 5–6; Matthew 22, verses 23–33; Hebrews 12 “Unashamed” Episode 1340 is sponsored by: https://helixsleep.com/unashamed — Get 27% off sitewide and make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you! https://bravebooks.com/unashamed — Use code UNASHAMED for 20% off your first order! http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/ — Sign up now for free, and join the Unashamed hosts every Friday for Unashamed Academy Powered by Hillsdale College Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/at-home-with-phil-robertson/id1835224621 Listen to Not Yet Now with Zach Dasher on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or anywhere you get podcasts. Chapters  00:00 Chad Robichaux Returns 08:45 Mighty Oaks & Faith-Based Veteran Care 13:40 UFO Disclosure & Christians Don’t Need to Panic 18:35 Enoch, Giants & the Flood 25:10 Spiritual Warfare & the Unseen Realm 31:35 Jesus Picks a Fight at the Gates of Hades 37:50 The Physical Reality of the Spiritual World 43:45 Chad’s New Military Thriller “Riptide” 48:10 A Memorial Day Reminder from a Marine Veteran 52:30 Gratitude for Those Who Served & Sacrificed — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So welcome back to the Unashamed podcast. We had a studio audience of one on our last podcast we did with the brothers. I'm not sure exactly went all these air, but we did a brother podcast. And one of our favorite unashamed guests, I think this is the third time you've been on, but I'm not sure. Third or fourth. Chad Robeshow, welcome back to Unashamed Nation.

Well, I'm just glad you're hearing it's not in duck season because I thought you were just doing the podcast so he can go duck hunting. I was. And I stayed around all you guys long enough and ended up actually liking you guys. He actually became one of our crew. And what's funny is, Jay, so I had never, Chad's been on the podcast multiple times. And I've been on here with him. Hunter's been on here as well, his son. And I had never met him in person until last night.

He stayed with Stone. You stay out of town? Well, I was out of town for one or two of those. Chad zoomed in for one or two of those. I stayed in your house while you were going. He stayed in our house. He stayed in my house, but I never made him personally. But it's like we said last night, we already knew we were the closest of friends

because of our time we spent together on a podcast and just how much we love the Lord. Yes. And so we already had that. But we were sharing a lot of stories last night. But it was funny, we were on the podcast, Zach, we were talking the first few minutes of the brother podcast about golf. and Chad doesn't play golf but he just told us a story about the you got to tell that on the podcast

Well you had a good line about Because I said Zach said how did the podcast go with the brothers I was like well we wasted 10 minutes Talking about golf Because most people hate golf Or the idea of it Right

I don't like golf No same here And even me like when it's on My wife gets angry She's like that is the most boring I love watching though To have on And you had

What was that quote you said? So Mark Twain said that golf is a good walk spoiled. Yeah, that's good. That was a pretty good line. That was it, which is that I was pretty. So you told them. That's what Max said.

He said, all my friends play golf. He said, but they all walk the course because they ain't got no money. Right. He said, that's just the dumbest thing. Well, Jay's and I did too. We were young. We didn't have any money. We walked every round.

You could afford a card. It's a little better. Some of those fees in some of these courses are crazy. Oh, they're crazy. Oh, it's a rich man's game. But you, Chad, Chad played it at one of the most elite courses in the world. Yeah, yeah.

You played one time, one round of golf. In your life. It was a round, but it was nine holes. You had to do it twice. Yeah, we've played a nine. So we're in Afghanistan, like the height of the war, 2005. And a couple of guys in my task force were there. Just like three of us, we're out in the middle of nowhere.

Dave, Dave, who's a seal in a guy named a boy, a bank, is his name we call him. He's a four-stricon guy. And so we're the, that we're out there and Bank is really in the golf. And Time magazine at the time you go back and look it up, they had on the cover, it says,

he comes out like really excited. He shows the cover of this magazine. It says the 10 most dangerous golf courses in the world. And number one is Kabul. And I'm like, Kabul Afghanistan. I'm like, that's no way this golf course here, Bank.

Like that's, you know, probably old. He's like, no, it's here. So he looked it up and sure enough that thing was there. He's like,

let's go find it. And I'm like, we've been working like three months straight, 20 hours a day, stopping to sleep for like four hours a day. And I'm like, we don't have time, but he had a good point. We need to take a knee. You need the time.

Yeah. So he's like, let's go find it. I'm like, all right, let's go see if we can find it. And so we get Aziz, you know who Aziz is from saving Aziz. We get Aziz. Which we did a podcast on Aziz. And so Aziz takes us and we find this golf course in its nine holes. All the caddies have little greens that they take with you so you can put off of. And I have this really cool picture of me putting.

And behind me is ISAF, International Security Assistance Force, mechanized vehicle in the guys like in the turret peeking out while we're putting. And Bank, like, we just had such a good time. And Bank took that magazine cover and took a picture of us there and put it in a shadow box, framed it for me. It's in my office. So when you get home, I want you to take a picture of that and send it to me because we're going to put that on the notes for the show.

I know you're not a golfer, but I'm trying to get the concept. You carried the green with you and then you put it down? Yeah, the caddies had like this little artificial like turf green that it took so you get hit off of it because there was... It was like a pad for all their shots. Oh, so you were saying green. So there's not a lot of grass. Is that...

Well, there is all like... You're talking about putting or driving? He was talking about driving or hitting his iron. Now that, now that putting was in, they had tar. Like, so they'd have like a round around the hole with the stick in it. Yeah. The flag in it. Yeah.

They had like this shred it like tar. It made it smooth. Oh, so it's like a synthetic. So you basically carried around a mat to hit off. So you hit off. So you hit your ball. And then you put the mat down and then hit off the mat. Yeah, that's right.

To a synthetic green. And then you put it on tar. So how did you play, by the way? Oh, I don't know. How many times did you swing and miss? I don't even know. A lot. That ball was going all over the place.

Because, I mean, for me, like, just hit it hard. So you thought about what you shoot. It's just the game is don't get shot. That's the three of you. Well, exactly. But isn't it funny? how golf is only sport where the ball's never moving. Yeah.

And people who are very athletic have great hand-eye coordination. I'm using you for an example. Well, this is a fourth-degree black belt, you know. And the ball is not moving. And a lot of people who've never played, they come up there and swing and miss it. You're like, how is that possible? It's not moving. It's just sitting there.

And you're like, what just happened? Yeah, I mean, obviously it's a technical sport. have coaches. Exactly. So the guy in your group that is the good golfer, did he hit the ball pretty good? Did he hit the ball pretty good? Oh, yeah. So you're impressed.

So the goal of the round is basically to survive. Survive, yeah. That's why it's the toughest golf course in the world. Now, if we would have put that golf ball out, you know, 500 yards and shot it with the rifles, then I would have. Exactly. If he got the sniper into it all. We've actually done that.

There's a little duck show episode where it goes, Phil and I never liked golf. they like to shoot golf balls. And so we would hit the balls and they would shoot them on the golf course. Which is pretty fun. I prefer that. Yeah, which is fun. So tell us what you're up to these days. We're going to talk a little bit later.

You got a new book out, but kind of Mighty Oaks, what's happening with that? And just, I know you're speaking a ton because you and I talked a lot about that last night. So what kind of kingdom stuff are you doing? It's a lot, but it's in anybody outside looking at my life would think them all over the place. but in my mind it's like it's all very focused i think i'm in a meme you don't mean when you got the guys like crazy with the yarn all over the maps like it looks crazy but in my mind it's like all very focused and the focus for me is always it's always the gospel like uh whether i'm writing a book or speaking or at a even a secular event speaking a corporate event or or the podcast i have the

resilient show it's all pointed towards the gospel and and it's a big umbrella a big net that could cast wide and to a secular, you know, audience and as bring people into what we do. And at the center of that for me is the ministry of Mighty Oaks, which, you know, we found it 16 years ago. And I stepped out of a CEO role about two years ago. It was time. And Jeremy Stalneck is a CEO now. I'm still in the board and primarily responsible for the fundraising. We do about $8 million a year in programming for free. And we've served over 600,000 troops have been through our resiliency program at about 7,000 through a residential recovery program. Still doing a lot

of advocacy on the Hill, Capitol Hill and D.C. for veterans, faith-based veterans care. Every once in a while I'll see you pop up on some congressional thing or whatever. I was like, there's our guy. It's still like a battle. It's crazy. But we are out there all the time and they got some great

Congress members up there that are fighting Eli Crane and Derek Van Orden and Morgan LaTrell and those guys. Eli Crane has really, and Derek Van Orden have really been huge advocates to bring faith based programs because they're approving all kind of stuff and the government spending all kind of money on stuff that just hasn't worked. And, uh, you know, and I say it, I say this every time I go up before Congress, the VA could do as best of job as they want and they can

heal people's bodies and they can heal people's minds, but until you heal someone's soul, they're never truly going to be well. So true. And the only person that's going to do that is Jesus. And the government's not going to do that. Yeah. So need to partner with not just mighty yolks, but, but veteran service organizations that are faith based and going to help people get back to be in the people they're created to be. And, and, Look, I love that the government has this, you know, their hands in trying to help, but the government's never going to do it right. And the communities that these men and women come from that go serve, when they come home,

they're going to go back to those communities. And those communities need to bring them back and help them. And the best way to do that is through faith-based care through the churches and their veteran service organizations. So that's where Mighty Oaks really thrives, partnering with churches and being the bridge between churches and the government and this great need that we've been able to do. So Maddie Oaks is thriving. Unfortunately, this year will be in the first year.

We're in the deficit of having more applications than we'll be able to serve. Wow. And the deficit happened quick. So let me tell you about my day yesterday. We do podcasts. I go play in a golf tournament. Then I had to speak. And then I went and played cards with some buddies because my wife's out of town.

Ow, I got tired. And I thought if I can make it home and get in my Helix bed. Yeah. And I did. And when my eyes opened, I realized I hadn't moved for seven hours. That only happens for the Helix mattress, Zach. Testimonys of Helix mattresses brought to you by Jace. Well, we took the Helix sleep quiz, and we were matched with the Midnight Lux mattress.

It's not too firm, not too soft, just perfect for us because we're side sleepers. And that's the thing about Helix. They actually match you with the mattress that'll work for you. And everybody's different, right? So we've had our Helix mattress now for a couple of years and this given us the best sleep we've ever had. I have a sleep score almost every night on my watch of like 95 plus, which is incredible. Helix will let you try our wrist free for 120 days. But once we felt the difference for ourselves, there was no going back.

We're a Helix family, myself, Jill, Al, you and Lisa, Jason Missy, we're all sleeping on Helix mattresses. Not only am I sleeping better on my helix also have a lot less hip pain and shoulder pain, back pain. So go to helixleep.com slash unashamed for 27% off sitewide, exclusive for our listeners of Unashamed. That's Helixleep.com slash Unashamed for 27% off sitewide. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they'll know that we sent you. HelixSleep.com slash Unashamed. We're about 1,000 per year. And this year, we'll probably end the year at 3,000 applications, but only putting a thousand

through our resident program. Wow. So that's a first time we've been in that predicament in 16 years, which is a tragedy, but also a good problem that people are coming because of the hope that we're able to cast. Yeah, and it also shows that there's growth there. So I want to encourage Unashamed Nation to check out Mighty Oaks because this may be an opportunity to help expand what they're trying to do

and accomplish as well. There's that, the podcast, books. We filmed the TV show that I showed you guys, the shadow figures coming out. Yeah. Now, that's, I wanted to talk about that. Because ironically, so y'all, I don't know, I'll let you describe, which the show is not out. You just kind of, y'all made the show, and you're pitching it around, so we won't get into the details of it. But the backdrop of it is, I was going to say, conspiracy theories or something like that.

Some conspiracies, mysteries. I mean, Zach was helping with it. I mean, essentially, like, I'm a fan of these, all this stuff. I know you guys are, too. But as I've watched like all these shows, it's always like college professors and historians and you're talking about the theory of mysteries and conspiracies. I'm like, well, somebody get a shovel and go dig a hole?

Yeah. Like, and go get your hands there and see it. So I wanted to, so I'm the host. And I talk to the title shadow figures. I talked to a shadow figure who's a theorist. Like an example would be Tim Ibarino, me megalith structure theorist. And he says to me in our initial interview of the show,

like, hey, I believe there's a, there's a, a proverbial law city of Atlantis and here's the reasons why I believe that and so I'm like well what can I go look at to either debunk it

or give you more evidence and he says well in the Bermuda Triangle is the beginning of the Bermini Road and if there's megalus structures under the water there

we could really look like use that information so I put the audience will see me hand pick a team of special operations veterans and we go

essentially go get dig a hole and you dive we go and we jump in the Bermita triangle we go diving we find

these structures and we come back and report it to the shadow figure, Tim Iberino, and then that ties to the next episode. So it's all interconnected. You got you got JFK assassination. You've got some stuff that like well-known things that people wonder about. Now, the big one out right now, though, Chad, we brought this up on the show. I'd love to get your take on it is the aliens and UFOs and the disclosures that are starting to cut trickle out now. Yeah, man, I think especially to our, of the Christian world, I think this is really like an important topic to talk about because if the church is not ready for the, for what's, whether it's real or not, the disclosure

information, then it could really throw people off their faith. Your faith has to be so solid to be able to digest this information, not let it, not let it fluster you in the truth of the gospel. Right. Because, you know, if UFO lands and little green guys come walking out, Well, most people, most church people that would contradict what they've been taught because most of the church world, the faith world, that is, we're Jason talking about earlier, it's anthropocentric view where we believe that humans

are the center of creation and that the earth is the center of universe and nothing exists outside, which I personally believe, and through lots of research in my own study of the Bible, that the Bible talks about secret places and secret things that we don't know. And I don't believe that we know for certain that God didn't create more.

In fact, the Bible talks, if you talk about extraterrestrial outside of Earth, well, they rejoice. A lot of other beings here. They rejoice, right? So there was something created before us outside of extraterrestrial, outside of Earth. So we know that we're not it. Now, I think we're special. God sent his only son on Earth to die for us. We're special and made his image.

But that doesn't mean necessarily we're the only one. Special doesn't necessarily mean exclusive. Exclusive. And you and I talked about this last night. A lot of guys and friends of our. make very pointed, hard stances about it. And like you said, if things reveal to be something different, they're going to be doing some major backtrack.

You should at least be open to the ideas. Well, it makes you highlight Jesus, number one, because I always know Jesus is enough, because that was God's plan. And I'm secure. We read an interesting verse, I think it was 1st John 5, where it said the one, speaking of Jesus, and most translations have this capitalized,

keeps them safe, which I'd never really noticed that verse until we went through 1st John 5. Where was that it? Yeah, 1 John 518, we know that anyone born of God does not continue the lifestyle of sin. The one who was the one who was born of God

keeps him safe and the evil one cannot harm him. And we know the evil one is some form of celestial being. Yeah, some other beings. But I was just going to say that right off the bat, no matter what happens, if little green men do come out, I'm like, I'm in Jesus, I'm good, and we'll go from there. And I'd love to figure out their story because I don't know what they're, you know, what's your, what is their story?

How did they get here? Where are they going? I mean, the same questions would apply to the little green men, right? But it does, like you said, I think most Christians believe, well, probably these, if there's something to the ET extraterrestrials, that it's probably this celestial world that has rebelled and fallen, which is all over the Bible. And especially pre-flood, right? Yeah. Yeah, kind of antediluvinole, like pre-flood. Genesis 6.

Yeah. Which expounds if you want to go down that road expounds into Enoch. I believe the book of the Watchers to be accurate. We were talking about this last night. A lot of Christians like, oh, you can't read that. You read John Maxwell's books, and you read other books.

Like, you can read other books. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it doesn't, to me, my litmus test for this is if I read something and it contradicts the gospel, then it's cast out. Well, exactly. Right. But the book of the Watchers in Enoch

doesn't contradict the gospel in any way. And in fact, for me, it's really built my understanding of the spiritual world and it really explains the flood. To me, it explains the flood. Well, and the best thing going to the book of Enoch is it gets a mention in what we do have in the script. Well, where's it mentioned? Is it a Jude or where's that mentioned?

I can Google it. But that's what I was going to say about that is you have to realize, you know, the book of Enoch was not canonized in the Bible. There's probably a reason for that. I mean, God's in control of this whole situation. But they were very familiar. the writers of these letters with those stories and those books, or they wouldn't be quoting the book of Inak in a book that's inspired by God himself. Historically, it was found with the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947.

So it's, it was a... Did you find it out? Jude. Jude. Yeah, it was Jude, 15, yeah. 14 and 15. So when it says, Enick, the 7th from Adam prophesied about the, men see the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone

and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way and all of the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against them so evidently there's there's a quote from the book of enic right which does it that sounds like something that should be in the bible well and the interesting thing about jude which i hope we get a chance to maybe somewhere down the road, come back and pick up Jude, because it has some really interesting things in there, some kind of behind the scenes stuff that is mentioned about Satan and about a member of the disputing over the body of Moses.

Well, right, because when you talk about, when we were talking about this before we started the podcast, you know, the evil one is used as the reference of he's the Lord of the Dead. And then we were talking about that story where this guy has all these demons, And Jesus actually has a conversation, and they knew who he was. They recognized them right away. Oh, yeah, they called him. Our time has not come.

You're here too soon. Yeah. And I think we take these stories for granted just because they're familiar to us, and he throws the demons. They're like, throw us, you know, don't, don't, it's not our time yet. So it's like they're aware of a reality that we're, it's a mystery to us, how this all works. But they seem to be, have clear knowledge.

that we've lost. And it's not our time. And you have this authority that there's nothing we can do about. And so, and then you have that story. And so you have all these other pieces of like the giants, you know, from Genesis 6. And then all of a sudden, Goliath comes on the saint. Well, here's a giant. Well, it makes sense to us because we're, even though we don't know all the details of all those things.

and who was that the giant of, was it bashing? What was the name, Og or something like that? Somewhere it describes as bed, which, you know, I've learned from scholars. They're like, that doesn't necessarily mean anything because it was some kind of bed iron. But they do agree that this was some sort of giant coming from that ancestry. We know there was cross-pollization between the, you know, beings. So, Jay's, we got summer coming up, which, which means the kiddos are around.

Little man's going to be around a lot more, and it's important to have something good to entertain them. If you got anything worth entertaining? Our kids are sponges, and so whatever we put in them will have eternal consequences. So one of the best things I can think of is good spiritual Christ-centered books. Ah, well, you have just those books in front of you, brave books, teach kids things like courage, standing firm in your faith, loving others, the way God loves us,

and all these stories are rooted in biblical truth, which is what makes them so great. They also have games and memory verses to help the kids apply every lesson to their lives. Jase, you happen to know one of the Brave Book authors. You have a book there for an obvious. My wife help write this because you're my family. I mean, it just gives you chills to think about it. It's a great book about unconditional love. Jeff and Jessica, our brother and sister-in-law, also wrote a book called Dear Valour, which is an awesome story about adoption and God's love for us.

So obviously, we're all in on Brave Books, and our family is as well. So we want to encourage you to get them now, so you'll have something great for your kids this summer. When you subscribe, you get a new book every month. You'll get a free starter kit, plus both of those Robertson books completely free. Use the code Unashamed for 20% off your first order. Let's raise kids who are unoblished. ashamed of their beliefs. Head to bravebooks.com slash unashamed, use the code unashamed.

That's bravebooks.com slash unashamed. Use the code unashamed. Which is what the flood was really about. Exactly. It's not, we wouldn't the corruption of man in his own because of the fallen in the garden. It's because the watchers, 200 watchers descend on Mount Heron and they choose to take women. By the way, this is Genesis 6. This isn't, this isn't Enoch. they take wives, human wives,

and the offspring of those human wives are giants. Now you jump into, which is a death lien. And now you jump into the Book of Enoch and you realize that in that time they would have to have a pay a dowry to the fathers of those human women. And that dowry they paid was technology, like skills of war,

how to use form of acetycles, sorcery, all that stuff. The plants. Yeah. And a lot of people. Forbid knowledge. Yeah. Yeah.

And look what happened. The earth got so bad that here's the story of Noah. Yeah. Which that really makes a lot of sense. You have like, I'm told about 1,500 years. And at the end of that 1,500 years, the Nephilim, the giants, they couldn't, humans couldn't take care of them and enough anymore. It started consuming humans.

And they petitioned to God. And then God sends, you know, Raphael and Michael and Gabriel to. come in and execute, they called Noah to build the ark and execute this redemption for mankind, which was a reset. And that was the cleansing of the corruption of the earth. And that's what the flood was about. It wasn't about us. It was about us being corrupted.

So you wonder how did, so if you had eight people survived the flood, how did Goliath come on the scene? And so some people think maybe his bloodline survived. What I think is we have two instances in the Bible that we see angels rebel. The watchers, that I'm aware of, the watchers in Satan. And so if they did it twice, why couldn't they be doing it now? It's a good thing. It could happen.

So it could have simply happened again. A angel could have rebelled after the fall. And the same thing to keep that plan going to defile creation, which we know. There's a spiritual word to defile creation. That's Michael Heiser's point. I haven't dove deep into this topic, but I did read his book called. The Unseen Realm. Yeah, yeah, the Unseen Realm.

I read that. He talked about it. great book. He talked about how the Genesis or the flood, the men of renown, I think the way that the text describes them was men of renown. And so when you get to Genesis 11

and it says that they wanted to build a tower to heaven because they didn't want to be scattered and they wanted to make a name for themselves. And so that Hebrew make a name for themselves and is the same like root Hebrew as men of renown. And so it's one of the reasons

is why he says that, what you just said, Chad, that these celestial beings that were defiling creation, this wasn't a one-time event. This happened, at least those are two times that he mentions based on the Hebrew. I'm not a Hebrew scholar, so I don't know. But I did find it interesting. And you get places like Daniel 7, and you see kind of that worldview playing out, I mean, Daniel 10, I'm sorry. In Daniel 10, there's a reference to the Prince of Persia that was essentially an angelic, demonic being that was in some kind of opposition battle with Gabriel. And I think it was Gabriel. And so you see this and you think, well, Heiser's point is that there are these, there's a

divine counsel, Elohims, little gods, not Yahweh, little Elohims that are that are ruling over like chunks of the earth. Which is, he gets that from Psalm 82. and the passage where he says, let us make man in our image, which I've always taught that to mean like God's plural yet singular, but he's like, no, that's the divine counsel.

But go ahead, Zach. Well, Heiser was interesting because our eschatology that we talk about here a lot is that what God is ultimately doing is he's expanding his temple, which is the Garden of Eden, right? But now it's in the bodies of believers. He's expanding that across the entire globe

to encompass the entire globe. And the goal is to bring all the nations back in to worship the one true God. So the nations that didn't actually exist until Genesis 11, until this Tower of Babel situation. Then God creates nations. And then God pulls Israel out for himself in Genesis 12. So we've seen this in the scripture for years. And I'm not an expert in this at all, but I found the book fascinating because Heiser is basically taking a similar eschatology, and now he's bringing in this, the spirit, there's a, there's a cosmic spiritual

battle that's going on in the heavenly realms. And so the goal eventually is going, the God is going to bring heaven and earth back together again, which fits really nicely into what we think the Bible already teaches. It just kind of puts it in a lot more of a, I'm trying to think of the word, it's like, it's like real, a real battle. It's not just, well, it makes more sense of all the passages that you read about our struggles not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers and principalities in the heavenly realms, those kind of passages. But what I like about what he does in the book, because I'm more of a simple practical thinker, and I don't know all the details of all the history of that with the giants and the places and the bashing. But he makes practical

point since he has studied this so much, where he makes a big point about when Peter, when they had the discussion on who do people say I am, the place where they were at geographically was like known in their day as the gateway to hell. This is still. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so when he says, on this rock, I'll build my church, you know, he's concluded that,

because everybody takes that statement and kind of makes their own thing. Like, you know, Catholicism said, you know, it's Peter. Yeah. Is it his confession? Did it mean the confession? And so he's like, no, I think it was the actual place where, because Babylon, that was like a pagan idol worship center and all these negative things. He was like here. Because then he makes the point that after Peter says that, you're the Christ's Son of Living God.

And he has that famous sign saying where it says in the gates of Hades will not overcome it. Because he was geographically at the side of this mountain. I think it was it started with age. I can't remember. Herman, maybe, where this went down. But he's like, then a couple chapters later, what happens at the same mountain? They travel three days.

Well, then there's the transfiguration, which now we're getting back to Jude. Because you have Elijah who didn't die. He just left. You had Moses who... Buried by God. Well, buried by God. Whatever that means.

The evil one has an argument about where that body is. And now you have Jesus. And they're transfigured. You see a glimpse of a heavenly existence on earth. And Heiser's point was, oh, he's going to the very forces of evil at the place where they've set up camp. Well, that's where they descended, right? That's what the watchers descend it there. He's picking a fight.

Well, then fast forward until you get to something obscure like 1st Peter 3. And then here Peter brings up the flood, brings up baptism, and the resurrection of Jesus. Jesus, and oh, in the middle of that, Jesus goes and speaks to the spirits who are in prison, which is obviously this locked up spiritual, celestial being world. And he's like, why is that in there? Which is seemingly another quote from Enick, the book of Enich, because it uses that same kind of language. But his point is, he brings up the 1st Corinthians too about the rulers of, uh,

of the celestial world, didn't understand that by Jesus' crucifixion that they were losing because of the resurrection. Because if they did, they wouldn't have crucified him. Right. So they knew who he was, think back to the pigs, but they didn't know what the plan was. And they're thinking,

there's no way the plan could be bad for us if he dies because they're the Lord of the dead. They're trapped in this, you know, the under-the-earth verses that come up. So having said all that, 1 Peter 3, he believes is a declaration of Jesus saying, oh yeah, you thought me, you thought you had me, I'm not going to be here long. And then he's resurrected. But then he ties it to us, which in a way is spiritual warfare, because we participate in baptism,

reenacting Jesus' death, barrel, and resurrection, and us, by that, putting our faith in Jesus, we're declaring to the demonic world, you have no power. over me. You're setting the line of how you're going to operate your life. To me, it's a pretty credible view of the spiritual warfare. I really enjoyed, it's to really, like, you go back in knock and you see this spiritual warfare that's taking place even back in that time, where the watchers actually, the angels that descendant and rebelled, they actually go to Enoch to mediate between them and God not to be spared. But then we see that God rejects their attempt to mediate

and binds them. So what Peter's talking about them being binded, like that's probably who he's talking about, those demons being binded. And then the Nephilim, the sons of these celestial beings, these giants, when they're killed in the flood, this great cataclysm that happens,

they're killed, but their bodies are gone, but they can't go to eternal death or life like us. And so their spirits, their spirits are unembodied spirits. We're on the earth. And this is what Bill Enoch says, the demonic world that we're facing, the spiritual demons that we see in our world or the disembodied spirits of these giants.

Yeah. Have you heard this? I have. And I think that's why I've always thought that the activity, when Jesus came here, the activity for that whole realm seemed to go, way up because they all knew something was a minute like jace was and there was some some knowledge i love what you brought up earlier about the kind of not yet now period of where we are because in luke 15

you know three different times jesus when he's telling those those parables says that angels rejoice when sinners repent which is gives you this idea there's still this rooting on from there's this angelic almost like a like a crowd celebration extended family exactly And so they play a role. And then you get to Hebrews 13, 2, where the Hebrew writer just drops in this bomb, which says, oh, yeah, be careful why you interact with strangers

because it may be an angel that you didn't know was an angel. And this is, again, pretty late in terms of New Testament canon. So the Hebrew writer just drops the in. It's like, oh, by the way, there will still be interaction between the realms and a rooting for us.

And so I just find that fascinating and interesting that there's still that connection. Go ahead. I do, too. I want to finish to answer to that last question with that, because that anthropocentric view that I think the Christian church

has been really misled by is this view that humans are in a center, right? So if you imagine, Tim Alberino explains like this, if you have a wagon wheel, and humans and earth is the center of everything, well, then Jesus is outside of that. Right, but the Christo-centric is you put Jesus at the center and humans are a spruce.

spoken that wheel. And I think we're part of a bigger family, like extended family, of infinite before us and after us. And we're part of that big story. And if Jesus is the center of that, then no spacecraft, no disclosure is ever going to corrupt the fact that Jesus is the center. There's no narrative that's going to corrupt that. But if you put yourself at the center and now you throw something odd out there, you know,

the wheel gets off. Well, it showed me, it should have found that. It shook the foundation of the Catholic Church, if you think about when they discovered heliocentricism, that the universe does not revolve around the earth, that the earth actually revolves around the sign. Copernicus, Galileo, like, they were considered heretics. I mean, Galileo, he was considered a heretic because of a scientific discovery. But again, I think that was because their worldview had placed humanity at the center of the entire thing. And I've never heard you say that, Chad, or the gentleman that you mentioned, but before you even said, Christ-centered, I'm like, no, human-centric, anything, that's humanism.

Like, it's Christ-centered, Christ, he's at the center of all of it, which is the point of the book of Hebrews. Now, what I think is interesting about this whole conversation is that we've, whether there are aliens or not, or all that, that whole broader discussion. Chad, I've come out and said, I don't think they're going to find aliens. Al thinks they are. but Al also is obsessed with Star Trek and his...

And X-Files. So he kind of wants it to be true by being honest with you. Exactly. I've got on Zach's team on this one if you want to know where I'm at. I think Chad's more with me, though. Chad, where are you at?

I mean, I hope there is. I hope it's greater and grander. Here's the thing, whether, if aliens do come, it doesn't throw anything off. The reason I think people need to be prepared is what's the message going to be? Is the message, you know, what's their story? If the message is we see it at you, we created you, we put you here and now we're back, then that's a lie.

Like we know if we're in crisis center, we know that's a lie. And we could reject that. Whatever the message, don't pay attention to what you see. Don't pay attention to disclosures. Like said, Little Green men come off a spaceship. None of that matters. What matters is going to be the message that they come. Listen to what they say.

There you go. That's so good. That's profound. I wanted to mention, too, about Enick, just for people who are studying and this being bewildering. You know, in Hebrews 11, he's mentioned, and there was mystery about him anyway outside of the book, but he's mentioned in the Bible. This is not like something we're just hocus pocus. And I just wanted to read it.

In Hebrews 11, 6, it said, by faith, Enoch was taken from this life so that he did not experience death. He could not be found because God had taken him away. for before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. And I just wanted to read that because there's a lot of mystery about the book of Enix and all this. But at the end of the day, I think your default in the messaging rings true even here. He commended God and he didn't die, which is crazy to us. But God, yeah, but God took him.

And it wasn't unlike Elijah, who you see him later, reappear in the Gospels as in some form. And it makes me think all this being said of that verse that I found a lot of comfort in when my dad died on this crazy story about the Sadducees coming up with this, because they didn't believe in the resurrection. So they come up with a question to Jesus to try to trap him. And they weren't being sincere. They didn't believe in the resurrection, so they're like, well, let's try to, because he's acting like there is going to be a resurrection. So they come up with this crazy story about the woman in the law saying if she dies, I mean, if her husband dies, she's got to get married and then happen seven times. Well, at the resurrection, who's she going to be married to?

Well, he has an interesting answer, and the part out for this discussion I want to focus on, because he said, you're ignorant, you don't know the scriptures or the power of God. But at the resurrection, it says the people will be like the angels. And so it's like, what does that mean? And so when you think about to our discussion, evidently, they're not bound by time, even though they're created beings just in a different form. Because when you think about the evil one, you're like, well, how old is this being? Right. Because every generation, everyone's doing spiritual battle.

So I think that was his point. Of course, the overall point was, and where I found comfort, is when Jesus says in response to the Sadducees, for to him, God, all are alive. He's not the judge of the dead, but the living. Or he's not the God of the dead, but of the living. And so all these beings, they are essentially trapped because they're lost in time, is what I'm assuming,

and at the end, he's going to judge them. And whatever this lake of fire and all this, whether they're forever tormented or tormented forever or destroyed forever or forever destroyed, either one's bad. It's like the joke that said, you know, original or extra crispy, both are bad at the end. So don't get into that debate.

But I felt like, just for clarification, I think it all kind of makes sense when you put all these verses together. I've had this kind of epiphany when I was interviewing a guy named John Burke. He wrote Imagine Heaven. And he interviewed all these, I think over a thousand near-death experience people that had been dead like more than 10 minutes. And they're from all over the world, Christians, not Christians. And one of the things that I found a consistency in all these was they explained their afterlife experience to be a thousand times more physical than. than this life.

And really clicked to me after like talking about some of this stuff that we believe that that spiritual means almost like a dream state and that's not physical. But it's all physical. That's right. It's all physical.

And when we die, like the spiritual world is more physical than here. Well, why would you get a new body? Yeah. Exactly. And the watchers had, they had biology.

They had, they want to create, right? They just, well, that was my point about, that was my point about, baptism, and I don't think I've ever said this in public, but you've gone there, so I'm going to say it. And I feel like the whole religious world, they don't know what to do with the Lord's Supper or baptism. You know, most people call them sacraments, but here's the point I want to make.

The reason I think they don't know what to do with it is because you read verses like the spirit is what counts, the flesh counts for nothing. And so, you know, people think, oh, everything about the flesh is bad. But then you had these two things that are something physical that you do, even though in either case, you're not actually doing anything but kind of surrendering to what it represents. But it is two physical things that happen to it. You're literally immersed in water.

But when you read the First Peter 3, which I brought up about Peter, all of a sudden, you're like, why is this happening? there's something spiritual going on and something physical that's happened to you and the same thing with the Lord's Supper. And I really, to your point, I think that's why he chose those two things because I think it is a picture

just like when he was resurrected and had the meal of fish with the disciples. What's he eating fish for? He just came back from the dead. But if there is a picture of the next life, there's a physical rehabilitation that's going to happen that's hard for us to understand in a new body.

But even he himself ate some fish post-resurrection representing what's going to happen to us. And I love it. It's spiritual, physical, emotional, and intellectuals, all of those things. Last night we watched the movie, Lisa and I did for the first time. And the one part Lisa cried in the movie watching it was when she was baptized in that moment physically.

And Paula is the one that took her down and comes out looked over there and tears are rolling down our cheeks and saw why after 27 years would see in that still have that effect because it touches every part of who we are yeah which is the beauty of it and you described that picture of the kingdom that's hebrews 12 it shows you angels us the blood of jesus the saints of men made perfect i mean all that is that forever famine all right look i had no idea we were going to talk about this but i should have because last night when i asked chatt I said, what do you do for fun? And he started telling me about this.

And so that's what we spent our whole podcast talking about. But before we leave, because this is, we're going to drop this on Memorial Day. There's a couple of things I want to talk about. One is your new book. I want to mention it now because it's called Rip Tide. Now, I've gotten really into, a few years ago, into military fiction. Brad Thor, Ryan Stack is a couple of guys that I read. They're great.

And now, Chad Roe's show, because Foster Quinn, who's the hero of this story, So you've done one of these. This is the second one. Silent Horizons is the first. Right. And it's been amazing. You said it's gotten some awards and some other stuff. It's a very good book.

And look, I read this genre. So I'm telling you, Chad. And I sent a picture. We're going to show it on the thing because I sent it to Maddie to put into the show notes of me sitting with Silent Horizons on the deck of my pool getting ready to read it. So this one's going on the plane with me on the next trip. But tell a little bit about that and what kind of got you into military fiction. because obviously your other books, which, by the way, Mission Without Borders,

is probably my favorite book you've done. It's just so good. You and Hunter and your experiences in Ukraine. And then you've also, Saving Aziz is another amazing story and some other stuff you've written. But what got you into fiction? Well, I've always, I enjoy the writing process. And so my nonfiction books, which are written a lot of nonfiction books, have been about some real life stories.

And when I wrote Saving Aziz, because of my background, I had to send it to Pentagon for review. and went to the Pentagon. They sent it to the Marine Corps, J-Soc, where I was at, the Central Intelligence Agency. And so when that thing came back, it was full of black lines.

If we were resaving Aziz, we kept the black lines in there. I was joking. Put a candle under, you can see it all. But when I've seen that, I'm like, I'll never be able to tell, like, the autobiography of my career.

And I was very privileged to work, you know, as a Forestry-Con Marine. I went as a contractor to a J-Soc Task Force. with what I believe to be the premier special operations unit in the world. And I got to work in this really advanced force operations is what it's called, clandestine side of the access and placement, as logistics kind of effort to build access and placement for the best assaulters in the world

to go kill the worst bad guys in the world. And so I got to do that. And no one had ever really told that story. And I'm like, well, it's never going to be told in a nonfiction setting. So I'd love to do it in a fiction setting. No one had done it before. And so Foster Quinn is that. He's a, we give a career of a force recon Marine who goes over to a J-Soc Task Force as a contractor

and does advanced force operations, clandestinal logistics, and to put the salters on target to capture, kill the worst bad guys. And there's a lot of parallels between what's really happening in the world right now, which some of it was, some of it was like almost crazy how, when we wrote this book, didn't know what's going to happen. I told you that last night, I was like, the first book is said in Iran, and it was just really, I mean, almost eerie as to how much stuff was very similar to what's going on today. And there's also an underpinning of spiritual things going on in this life,

which I know you're going to get there by the time you get through the three books at. But I just want to encourage you guys. It's a great read. I would encourage you to go back and get the other book and get this book and then start this series because it's a lot of fun. And shout out to Jack Stewart, too. Jack Stewart helped me write it. Top Gun Instructor. Brilliant guy.

He's also writing right now for Tom Clancy and Webb Griffith. He's a new writer for both of those. You're going to have our time securing him for future projects. So our last few minutes, so get the book, by the way, Unashamination, check it out. And Memorial Day, this is when this episode is going to drop. So I want to say something about that. This was originally a holiday that was recognized way back in the Civil War. I think it was called Day of Decoration originally.

And they made it a federal holiday in 1971. But this is obviously a time where, you know, it's more than just backyard barbecues and going to the beach. I mean, the idea is for those that give the ultimate sacrifice. So I just wanted you to maybe say something to our audience about Memorial Day itself. And then how's the way that people feel like they want to help people and they're not sure? And you mentioned earlier about churches and might use. Just maybe give us a little kind of an importance of that and what we can do to better help our troops and the folks coming home.

And even the folks that obviously have paid the ultimate sacrifice. Yeah. So every year for Memorial Day, I get asked because my background and what I do at my background. and what I do at Mighty Oaks. How should we celebrate Memorial Day? Should we be sad? Should we be happy? Should we have a barbecue?

And look, like, man, spend time with your family, have a barbecue, celebrate, like, rejoice, enjoy your day off. And don't feel bad about it. That's what, for me, like, for someone who's lost friends in combat, like, that's what I know they would want, right? So that's a day to do that. But also during that day, like pause, take a moment. and remember every military warrior since 1775

whose fought, bled, died for those freedoms that you get to actually enjoy that day because in America, most Americans are naive and don't realize that we're part of only 75% of 25% of the world that even live with religious liberties, that we could freely profess the gospel and go in a church on a Sunday morning, which I know most of your audience shares that appreciation, but we need to know where that comes from. Because around the world, 75% of the world is persecuted for their religion. That's one example of many freedoms that we share.

You guys, I deal with me. We love our Second Amendment. We love the Bill to get our First Amendment, to get a show like this and talk freely about whatever we want and not have the government knocking out door. That is only because of, again, every man and woman who's done in the uniform since 1775 and fought, and died with those freedoms.

So that is the day of the year that we pause and reflect. And don't just do it for yourself. Share with others. If you're a parent, sit down with your kids, and remind him, this is what today's about. So they could appreciate, because if you don't appreciate what we have and why we have it and the cost that was paid for, then we'll lose it. Yeah. Because it won't be valued. Yeah.

That's so good. I love that. Well, we want to tell you, thank you, of course, for your service and your two, I know two of your sons. Yeah, both. They're both Marines. Both Marines. And may or may not get back in. Yeah, they both are tinkling right now with their going back in.

Exactly. So you never know how that's going to go. But we're just so, an unashamed nation, I know there's a lot of guys out there that are serving, that have served. And we just want to say the same thing to you, to you. If you've lost family members, especially on this particular day when this is dropping, we just want to say thank you. I mean, and I love what you said, to get to do what we get to do and to live because of, you know, because of being protected. And look, we just found that reason. I mean, you never know. know when you're going to get called to go, right? I mean, you know, Trump is, is pretty much been famous for being anti-war, and yet things are going to happen in the world where you step in and

people serve, you know, and they get and put it in harm's way, which is all part of it. Yeah, no matter where you land on all that, these guys like you and our officers, they're just going and doing their jobs, you know, for us. When you're in that, you don't look at the politics or what's going to do. You just, you do what you raise your hand to do. And that's how they should perform. Thankfully right now, we are a great commander-in-chief. And the sector, you know, Pete Hexeth's a friend of mine. Yeah.

Secretary of War, I mean, they're in good hands. Yeah. And regardless of what people believe we should be in Iran or should be in Iran, I could tell you, they're in good hands with those guys. If they're going to go, they're going to go to win. Right. And they can be supported and equipped to win. Yeah.

And the morale seems to be high. Highest, I've seen in 30 years being in around the military. And we had the highest retention. in 15 years and highest recruitment in 15 years. Now, two years ago, we had the lowest morale, lowest recruitment since Vietnam, and the lowest retention lost all the wartime. So anytime you look at a company, right,

you can look at the employees, right? You look at the military, look at the service members. If they're like, and also with that, when you have high recruiting or high retention, you can raise the standards. And they can get better. You're getting America's best and brightest. By the way, if you want to hear any amazing stories,

because there's so many stories. My show The Resilient Show, I get to interview so many of guys. We have such a good catalog of just crazy, crazy stories. So check out Chad's podcast, also his books. What's the name of the show? If it lands somewhere. Oh, shadow figures.

Shadow figures. It's going to land, God willing. It's going to be somewhere. And trust me, just from us watching the little trailer today, it's very watchable. So I think you're going to like. Chad, it's always a blessing, having you own unashamed. Thank you, brother.

I've got to finally get to me. I love you guys and thankful for your friendship and all the stuff we'll get to do together. Thanks, Zach. All right, brother. Good to see you, ma'am. We'll see you next time on Unashame. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast.

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