Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1343 | Zach Botches His One Job at His Son’s Wedding & Chaos Ensues

Episode Date: May 28, 2026

Al, Zach, Lisa, and Jill reflect on family, testimony, and the long road from hidden pain to generational blessing. Zach looks back on raising strong-willed sons in a culture that often treats boldness and conviction like liabilities, and he reflects on seeing those same traits shaped by faith, counsel, and maturity. Al and Lisa discuss watching their story come to life, including the physical weight of reliving betrayal, trauma, forgiveness, and redemption on-screen. Full circle family moments come together to show that shame loses its grip when families tell the truth, let God heal what was broken, and refuse to pass old pain to the next generation. In this episode: Revelation 12; Genesis 1; Genesis 2; Genesis 3; Luke 7, verse 47 “Unashamed” Episode 1343 is sponsored by: Get firearm security redesigned and save 10% off @‌StopBoxUSA with code UNASHAMED at ⁠https://www.stopboxusa.com/unashamed⁠ #stopboxpod https://fastgrowingtrees.com — Get 20% your first purchase when using the code UNASHAMED at checkout. https://ruffgreens.com — Get a FREE Jumpstart Trial Bag for your dog today when you use promo code Unashamed! http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/ — Sign up now for free, and join the Unashamed hosts every Friday for Unashamed Academy Powered by Hillsdale College Listen to Not Yet Now with Zach Dasher on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or anywhere you get podcasts. Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! https://open.spotify.com/show/3LY8eJ4ZBZHmsImGoDNK2l Chapters 00:00 Lisa’s North Carolina Geography Mishap 04:02 Zach’s Son Max Gets Married 09:12 Zach & Jill’s Wedding Disaster 19:40 Raising Strong-Willed Sons in a Hostile Culture 26:27 The Purity of Young Love 32:58 It’s Important to Say the Hard Things 39:41 Those Who Forgiven Much, Love Much 46:44 The Importance of Telling Your Story 52:28 Annabelle Wears Jill’s Wedding Dress — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Welcome back to Unashame. So we're Black Mountain style today. And for those of you that have been telling me, and there's a few of you that Jayce talks too much, you're going to be in for a real treat. Yeah. Because the next two podcasts, we're Sands Jace. He's on an undisclosed beach location somewhere. And I want to say something about that. We need to meet. make sure if you're listening that these episodes need to perform better. So tell your friends. Tell your friends about it.

Because otherwise Jason is going to think, oh, yeah, Zach and Al couldn't have. Now, what we want to be upset, man, that thing blew up. Of course, y'all get credit for the first one, but we have the second one, these next two. But the number one comment I hear on the Rozac is we love it when the wives are. So Lisa and Jill are both on. Yeah. Both home today. So we're here for a myriad of reasons.

Lisa had some speaking engagements on the way here. She found out, y'all appreciate this, that there's a big difference in Henderson, North Carolina, and Hendersonville, North Carolina. Probably about a, what, four-hour difference? There's a four-hour difference. So Hendersonville is like 30 minutes from here, and it's right on the other side of the airport.

So some fine folks in Henderson asked Lisa to come speak, Yeah. And it was, it's about cancer survivors. And so Lisa's never really done just a cancer survivor event. So she was excited about it. Said, yes, we'll do it because we're going to be right there. In Hendersonville, Lisa thought. Yeah.

It was Henderson. And so then she comes to me because she's always been a little bit geographically challenged. Is that a good way to put? That's correct. She doesn't know east from west. I said, well, go east. And she says, is that towards Rustin or the mall? I was like, well, baby, you know, if we're like,

like some other place, you can't really go off of the fixed locations in West Monroe. You got to know east of it. So she agrees to do the event. And so we're looking at logistics because we also have an event here in Black Mountain the next morning for her, a women's event. It was a Salvation Army event, which was awesome as well. And so I'm like, baby, you realize you booked us to four hours away. And we're through. And you've already got the Airbnb and everything.

Not only that, we're like, she's got to speak at 8 in the morning here, and we don't finish there until 8 at night. And so it's like, can it work? Yes, but it wasn't easy. It wasn't easy, but that's okay. We prayed for energy, and God gave it to us. He did. And Lisa spoke three times over the course of those 12 hours. So I was just arm candy for this.

And you make really fun, arm candy. Well, thank you, babe. Now that I'm lighter on my feet, I can. I guess that works better. Like a new man. I love it. So the other reason we were here, which we had already planned on being here for all that had happened Friday night and Saturday morning because Max and Annabelle, your oldest son, got married on Sunday. And so I wanted to talk about that because I think we've mentioned it before on the podcast.

I'm not sure that you were married your second child. And it's so funny because it was such a different wedding from the first one. And it's typical because you have a daughter getting married and then a son. But their approaches were so different too. I felt like I just felt like it was such a different like approach to the way. It was so true to them. Their personalities, you know, in so many ways. Well, and obviously Dawson and Layla got married on New Year's Eve.

It was freezing. It was cold. And then they had the summer wedding, you know. It was so cold. And I'm like, I was telling you, I was like, you know, they plan for the aesthetic. Yeah. What does it look like? I'm thinking, but what does it feel like?

So I'm saying, two different agendas. And I'm like, when I looked at the, there's like the chapel for Layla's wedding was a, there's probably three, two inches in between each board. They open outdoors. And it was, I mean, it was like literally like 10 degrees. And I found, I found myself outside more, though, because everybody crammed inside. Yes. And because, you know, it was to be warm, but also it was so loud.

because you had the band playing and I just the older I get I can't like I because my voice was gone in 10 minutes so Josh is the male Maddie is what I call him for this studio for Zach and I've already warned him I was like look because you guys never hear it on the thing but they have to make notes every time I have to clear my throat which is about 20 times per first podcast that's inside all that pollen and you guys got the pollen drop up here right now It's heavy. With Layla's wedding, though, I did spend a small fortune. I was like, we're going to be comfortable.

So I brought in like a whole AC unit, like the 20 gallons of diesel. I mean, the big generate. I mean, it was like a duck work. I mean, it was like, I'm like, what am I? I mean, but I was. And I don't want to, you know, I don't want to ask any impertinent questions. But I did notice that I'm thinking there was probably a big cost difference, too, between Layla's wedding.

And I just, I'm just guessing. I don't know. Well, but they weren't responsible. No, and that's true. That's true. They didn't want that. I mean, and so, and that Laila didn't eat her. Lela's like, I said, I would have just gave you the money.

And she said, oh, I wish you had told me that. Now that I've been married for three years. Why do they always say that, though? Yeah, yeah. Because in the moment, it's not like they're telling you that. Well, I said, I don't know if your mama would have went for that. Would you have gone for that? If she'd have said, we want the money instead of the.

I mean, probably. I don't know. It was my first daughter getting married. I had no reference point for wedding. It was fine. weddings were fun. It was, you know. And Max's little crew, man, I was like, man, they, in Annabelle's crew, I mean, it was a dry wedding, both of our kids' weddings have been dry. And it's kind of funny, like, like, the amount of fun they have, sober.

Yeah. I'm like, that's a win. No, that's a win right there because they're out there, I mean, having the time of their life, they dance the night away. Oh, it was a ton of young, young humans, I called them, you know, loving to dance. But it was like a, I have. I told Max, it was like a hoot nanny because you had a bluegrass band on a flatbed deal doing all the music afterwards. And they did square dancing and the rounder rosies and what, you know, docey does. It was really, it was great. It was great for us to while.

I don't dance. Do you all right to get out there? No. No. You just ate the barbecue? It's every, every. Yeah. And my new Ann Ann Ann, Gordon's wife.

Yes. Her sons are like barbecue masters. Oh, everything. And I'd been hearing about their barbecue. It's legendary. They're an award-winning. They've won many, many awards. And I would tell you what, it was worth the awards.

We had so many people say that's the best wedding food we have ever had. If you come through West or North Carolina, and I'm going to give them a free plug because we're not even charging for this. Yeah. And this is hard for Zach. Yeah, because I just send him $3,000. That's what I should say. That wouldn't ask the question.

You know, why, maybe I should. Maybe I shouldn't tell you who they are. No, they have a place called Haywood Smokehouse, and it is, I mean, it's the best bar. So she has three sons, and they're all in the business together. They have two restaurants. And they're so nice. They're just, I mean, salt of the earth, just gentlemen. And I guess they're your stepbrothers.

Is that what they are now? Is that what you call it? I don't even know what it is. Yeah, stepbrothers? Once removed. I don't know if they're removed or not. So anyway, it was out, it was close to Gordon's house, but it was, beautiful. Max, I hope you guys can show a picture. Josh can throw one of the pictures.

Because his outfit, he looked like a 70s country and western star. It was like a maroon Western style thing. He had a hat. Zach had a hat. You know, several people were wearing hats. A tube stole me. He said one of my friends' tubes. He's a, he's our local hillbilly. He's a local legend. Which I always say if there's a difference between a hillbilly a redneck. Yeah. It's called liver mush, which is something they eat that we don't eat.

Oh, yeah. It's like a sausage patty of liver. I saw it in the grocery store. Yeah. So that's the difference between a hillbell and a redneck. Otherwise, it's very similar.

So I kind of, me and Toop's got to be buddies because he reminded me of people back in Louisiana. So, but anyways, Toots called me this morning. He said, Hey, Zach, you understand movie,

The Three Amigos? And I was like, yeah, I've seen it. Like with, with, with um that's so true oh that's steve martin and martin short yeah i see i said yeah of course it's classic he goes that's what max looked like yesterday it's true that is one of the three one of the

megos that's pretty good i spent some time with him because he's friends of gordon too yeah and uh he's a good guy he's amazing he's our kind of guy one of the guy i don't know if you knew this one of the guys that was in the bluegrass man was his cousin yeah the biggest guy up there was everybody's his cousin. That's my again, there's a redneck connection. If everybody's

your cousin, you might be a redneck. You get four layers down. They're not, you're not related anymore.

So let me tell you this. So we're driving to the wedding. We're on the interstate. Yeah, this is good.

And we go past this truck and it had sparkling stainless steel wheels, you know. And rims and the truck was probably

40 years old. Yeah, it was on those old fords, you know. And I said, that's a bear truck right there. I said that that truck, the rims are more expensive than the whole truck. And we passed him and I said, look at that old boy driving it.

I said, that's all redneck right there. It was he? It was true. It was too. Because we got up, we passed him and got off and I saw him getting off behind me. And Lisa said, I bet he's coming to this wedding. They got a 72 Ford Ranger. That's it.

That's the one. Yeah. Yeah. So we had already comment on him. I said, we saw you on the interstate. He got redneck tendencies. Oh, yeah. Well, his last name was Toops, which is Super Louisiana.

Oh, yeah. That's a South Louisiana Cajun name. Well, we were very much, we were very much at home with the crowd. So, Jase, you and I grew up with a lot of weapons around. And we were taught gun safety, right, from an early age. We were, and it's just as important today. And you don't want a firearm ending up in a kid's hand. Exactly.

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It's the same mechanical locking system as the Stopbox Pro, but with more storage for your firearm, ammo, and your gear. So you don't have to keep up with numbers and, you know, the code to say. Keyless entry, yeah. Yeah, this is something you'll have to practice a little bit. And once you get the hang of it, you will never forget it. So we encourage you guys for limited time. Our listeners get 10% off at Stopbox when you use the code unashamed at checkout.

Head to StopboxUSA.com and use the code unashamed for 10% off your entire order. after you purchase they will ask you where you heard about them please support our show and tell them our show sent you that's code unashamed at stopbox usa.com it was so sweet it honestly was just i was telling someone i did not feel one ounce of stress the entire weekend not just wedding day a rehearsal dinner it was literally just like family together laid back so look So there's a callback. So how long have you been married? Because y'all fixed to go on a 25 years.

25 years. I participated in your wedding. It was me and another guy that was Frank Mills. Frank Mills, who was the, so it was two preachers for the price of no preachers. Just as a reminder. But no, you're paying me now. I'm paying you now. But the dash your way back in the day was my mom, God rest her soul.

who led Phil to the Lord. My mom had no, like there was no pride in terms of, like, she would mooch and like, and she would mooch off of your mom. Oh, yeah. So your mom and my, and Aunt Judy, that's who paid for the rehearsal, did. Yeah, exactly. Mom didn't even pay for it. Right.

She just invites them and they, literally, mom didn't pay for anything. So like, whatever, there's no preachers getting paid. None of that. We got, it was all for you. And it was all good because I wasn't in charge you anyway. But I always, you know, my style is the godfather. I told the story about Blake McGee, who's also 25 years, same years y'all, I guess.

That's right. And, you know, I had needed a favor because I couldn't do the MRI. And so I called him up and I was like, because you mentioned him. And I said, oh, yeah, he owes me a favor. Because he did try to give me like a Chili's car or something. I was like, no, no, no. One day when you're a doctor, I'm going to need a favor. And when I call you, the answer is yes.

And that's why I said, I called him. I said, I don't know. He'd been married. He said 25 years. And I was like, do you remember what I told you? he said, you said one day you would call. He said, and I didn't say anything. He said, is today that day?

I said, today is the day. I need a favor. And you are the man. I love it. So the callback, two callbacks. Now you just remind me the other one. One callback was that I had no idea until you mentioned it, that Max's wedding was on Jan's birthday, which is really special.

So you opened with a throwback to Aunt Jan, which was awesome. And I don't want to get tearful about that, but I did in the moment. But then the second throwback was, so we're doing Zach and Jill's wedding. And so I did the first part. And then, is it Frank? Frank is doing like the vows and the rings. And so he says, do you have your rings? Well, Zach looks in his eyes, I mean, got as big as saucers.

And I realized he's left the ring somewhere. And he said, he's looking like, what do I do? And of course, you know, Frank and I, it's not our first. It was early for me. he probably not as early for him. So we're just like, we're just going to fake the rings. Because, you know, what are you going to do? So are we even married?

Well, I don't know. I think y'all may have been living in sin for 25 years. I may have to do a wedding now on the podcast just to make this right. Hey, you want to get me a ring? I need a ring. I remember whatever. He said, with this ring, and I did the whole thing is. And he said, and we trust that you will.

And so, and your dad, like, had a reaction because he's sitting close enough. He realized what happened. And he throws his. headback hits a candelabra thing with a lit candle in it that goes in somebody's lap. My pregnant cousin is sitting behind it. She's like about to

have her baby catches this flaming candelof. It's like somebody fired a Molotov cocktail through the wedding on it. So all they think he just, they didn't know what happened to your dad. He had a stroke or something because nobody really knows what's happening on on stage. So all that happens

it's a funny story. No ring. I saw no ring. I had no ring at the wedding. So when a, I put my ring that I did have for you. You shoved it on my finger. On his finger. I like shoved it on. I was like with this ring.

Yeah. All right. So it was great. It was funny. It's a great story. Even after 25 years. So we get to the part of the vows. And I think Zach is kid.

The first line I thought he's making a joke because I was like, this is a pretty good joke. Because he said, you know, in my wedding, I forgot the rings. And I realize now I've forgotten the vows for Annabelle. And so I was like, I chuckled. I thought, look at Zach. He's doing a callback. 25 years.

That's pretty good. And he's like, no, I really forgot them. And then I see Jill just get up and just shoot out of there like a cannon. And so everybody starts laughing. But Zach, the difference in 25 years is now he turns it into a joke about himself. Everybody's laughing. Jill's back. He said, Jill, it's in between the kinds.

So she's at the back of the, and we're out in the middle of a field. Yeah. She drives out to the truck. She's in the truck. looking for the things. And I said, she's throwing stuff out of that console, trying to find those vows. And we were laughing so hard.

But it turned into a great moment. But you had it. Well, then I was not. You had a beautiful. Yeah, because I was like, look, this, I promise you'll appreciate this later, because this will be the story that you tell. That's right.

When dad forgot the vows. And the vows you forgot were no vows that could have been replaced off the top of it. I mean, it was the most beautiful. She wrote it as a prayer. Yes. And then she prayed the prayer. And yeah, I challenged you. She was looking at me.

Annabel was looking at me like, so Annabel, I've told her this. She, her way of dealing with conflict that she's kind of passive aggressive. So she was looking at me like, no, it's fine. But it was like, beneath the smile was like, how could I run my moment? And the funny thing is she asked me like four times. Do you have the, do you have the, do you have the vows? You have the vows. You have her notebook.

that sounds, I said, did you, did you tell me to? I just responded to that. Did you tell me to do it? She said, yes. And you're not passive-aggressive. And so I'm like, I'm saying, then lock it away. It's done. If you told me to do it, and I said, that's going to do it.

You don't have to ask me again. Done. And I was getting mad. So I kept, like, responding like that to her four times. It's like, are you sure? Don't forget. I said, hey, Jill, what did you tell me to do? I told you, I said, okay, it's done.

Lock it up. And then I forgot. And then I dropped a ball. God, which is funny, I had already spied. I was clued in to the fact. Spied? Spied. I was like, I was the zoning.

Spy. Like, I spy. I see. I spied. Okay, let's just get over that part of it. The point of it is, is I was watching you, and I saw your notes and your Bible, and I did not see the brown notebook. And I thought he has forgotten the vows. After four times.

After four times. And then I'm like, shit. Surely he's tucked it in his back pants. It's just somewhere out of sight because he couldn't carry it all. But your instinct was you wanted to go look even before that point, but you probably wouldn't know where to look back. But the wedding had already started. I was sitting there.

Can I confess something that to y'all now that I haven't told anybody yet? I actually did that on purpose. I did. Look, you've got to be a storyteller. I mean, I'm a showman. I did it on purpose. Now that it's turned out well, he did it over. funny though when you started saying at my wedding i forgot jill already knew that you forgot the notebook

that's exactly right she already knew it after 25 years you knew and so when he confirmed it i jumped up quicker oh she took off like a shot it was so funny in heels well that was yeah you did you move quick it was it was pretty special they asked me to pre-show which i was kind of like i was very honored yeah i mean because ben did layla's and uh so i didn't know you were doing it. Yeah, because I did both of my girls. And it's special. But you handled it just like I did.

I didn't take it as super emotional or nervous. I was like so honored because it was my kids that I was just like totally in my zone. Because it was like, you know, when I do it for other people, you're kind of worried. You don't want to mess up somebody's wedding. But it's when it's your family. Yeah. And did you feel that? It's like a calm comes over you.

Yeah, because you're seeing very calm now. It felt very, like, there was a lot of pressure. Right. And, yeah, I mean, I felt really in the moment. And it was, I mean, seeing Max, super proud of him. Yeah. I mean, it's one of those, Max was one of those kids, too. We talked about this on the other podcasts.

Max was very difficult to raise in the sense that he was, he's like, he's like a freight train. I mean, he just, I mean, he just, like, steamrolls his way through life. And, I mean, he's just, like, passionate. I mean, we made the joke today. He's like, Peter, you know, he's ready to go. I'm cut the ear off, you know, like that was like Max. And so all of our kids are pretty strong-willed and big personalities. But one of the things I said in when I, as I was marrying him off, and this was like heartbelt.

Like, I mean, you go through that. And, I mean, how many arguments have I been in with him? I mean, Max was not one that you could say something. And he's just like, okay, dad. it was like he's just quickwitted Sharp tongue And I'm like And so I mean it was just difficult

Because Max's hard as bare Or just in a different way Because Bear Well actually Bear is Is easier in the sense of He'll just like yeah He'll just kind of yeah yeah yeah Of conversate yes

He's more like your side of family Oh okay He's more like he's got Robertson tendencies Oh yeah That's why he and Jay's bud Oh yeah Yeah He's big time Robertson tendencies

And Max is more of a buck system type. You know, I'm a, you know, yeah. But, you know, I said, I'm so thankful, you know, because it's more difficult to, like, I don't know how it would instigate passion in a young man. So, Jason, you've got a nice area behind your house. I do as well.

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Yeah, I'd rather redirect a freight train than try to start an engine that won't start. Yeah, yeah, that was so good. So I'm proud of him because there's not a passive bone in his body. And so, you know, there was a moment, by the way, in like our history. Like, I remember, like, 2020 happened. And all the woke stuff was just piling on young men. And I remember thinking, like, I'm, I, I'll tell you, I was so, like, the skirt.

And encouraged and depressed when that was all coming out because I was like, I've not raised my boys to operate in this world. And I wondered, is this the way the world is going to be now? Because my boys will not, they will not survive in that world because they are, I mean, bull in the china shop. I mean, Bear was going down there in COVID, which is kind of scary now. He started out with the American flag. And he's marching now. He'd go out on the street with the American flag. Every day.

Every day. then he upgrades to military because now he has one camouflaged. And he gets progressively more. Like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We got to take a break here, you know, because I don't know where all this is going. And you all live in an area.

It's funny because you're in North Carolina, which used to be a firmly red state that's now purple and you're in a blue dot of this state. So it's not like your neighbors around your... Super opinionated. They're not going to hold back what they say. They're just like, here it is, they can or leave it.

I mean, wearing their emotion. on their sleeves, and I'm like, man, but you go through that with someone now, I'm actually 20 years old, and I'm looking at him make this covenant with this woman who's going to be his wife. And they did. They pursued the Lord together. They pursued purity together. They asked for wise, godly counsel beyond just us. I mean, they went out and sought after other people to speak into them for other elders

and shepherds and people in our church, mentor us. We want to sit under spiritual authority. And it was, I think you have those moments where it's just like, okay, maybe we did okay, you know. And she was beautiful. Just had that radiant glow. I mean, most brides do. But then there's something uniquely special about her is that inner. You mentioned it.

Yeah. The inner part that comes out so clear in her. And the excitement. Yeah. I mean, they were both just so excited, you know. Yeah. I mean, usually at a wedding, there's more of, I don't know, they're nervous, you know, but they did not seem nervous at all.

They seemed like they could not wait for this day. They could not wait, you know, to share their life together. It was just, you know, it was beautiful. It really was. And so special. So Lisa and I had, we looked at each other because you said, we didn't know all their history. I mean, I knew they had been dating through high school and all that. But so when you mentioned that they first.

she had first seen him on the playground or where it was like eighth and seventh grade and so Lisa I look at each other because she was like oh that's the one I'm gonna marry you know and our movie came out this weekend while we were here the day before the wedding day before the wedding and so

and we watched it here and I cried at all the same places I guess I'm gonna cry every time now at the same places but we had just watched it the night before again and there's this scene there early in the movie where we're eighth grade and sixth grade

and it's like where Lisa notices me on the playground and it's like the 9 and Shining Armour which winds up being our story. Of course, we took a lot of detours through the story in the 9th and Shying Armour but it was really interesting

because we felt that bond because we were like we know what it's like to start and what's interesting I'll give you a little insider unashamed so Cole, Prine, who's one of our producers on the movie but also has been with us

with all of our projects going back to In the Woods of Film Yeah. His son is the one that's me in that scene. Oh, really? Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah, it's his son.

Oh, I love that. Because they just needed somebody, and he was excited to do it. And he had my hair. He had the whole thing. Oh, I love it. And so in the scene, Lisa has like a little princess fairy tale book, and I pick it up, you know, because she gets knocked down. And it's just one of those little moments for us. It goes back to the innocence and the purity.

And so, I don't know, that was just another little bond. Liz, what did you say when you watched it, what was it like for you to watch that story on a screen? You know, it was amazing because Haley really played the part well. I mean, like, I really felt like that was me because she had a lot of my mannerisms, a lot of the way that I would have felt and I would have talked and, you know, I would have reacted to things. But the first time we watched it, it was tough to get through. you know, because it's one thing to talk about your life and to tell your story. It's a whole other thing whenever you're watching it come out on TV and somebody is playing you.

I mean, it was, parts of it was surreal. It was just like, wow. I mean, somebody's actually playing me. And then, you know, other parts were, wow, I can't believe I was that person, you know. When we were watching the You know Unfaithful Segment of the movie

The affair It was we both had First time I did in the second time Which I was glad I still did the second time Did you? Physiological reactions

And we talked about this last night at dinner That it's It's amazing that When you go through something really difficult Like you can still have physiological responses Yeah Grant was saying

last night because he's a dentist that he's had 60 years, people my age, come in and because they had a really bad experience at the dentist when they were 10, they have a physiological reaction to him and being in that chair. And he's seen it many, many times.

But you ever heard the phrase of like your body keeps the score? It's like it does. It remembers. It does. Well, look, so the night it all broke. And I was calm that night, but the next day, like the Sunday, because this was like in the early morning of a Saturday.

By Sunday, I just, I just was like had like the chills. And so I was just like wrapped in an Afghan. And I was in my living room. And it's the Sunday that Lisa went forward at Whitefaro, which is in the movie. Very powerful. And so John Godwin's sitting there with me. And I would try to talk, but my teeth were, I was just, I was like that. So when we're watching the first couple of scenes into that, what happened.

happened that night and the fair and all that. I literally like had these, I wasn't full blown, but I could feel these twitches inside my body going back, 27 years ago. I felt it. I mean, that's how strong it was in me. And that's how good of a job they did showing it, because otherwise I wouldn't have that reaction. Lisa said she was nausea. I had so much anxiety and I was just nauseous, just thinking, oh, I mean, because the one thing whenever, after that happened, and I had repented and I'd changed my life, and I'd been, you know, baptized, and became a new creature, I had asked the Lord, I said, I want to remember this feeling. Because when somebody comes to us and they have this same thing, I want to be able to feel what they feel.

Yeah. You know? Yeah. And I don't ever want to forget this because I don't ever want to go back to being that person. And so I still have those feelings, even whenever we talk to people, you know. And it was like that on the movie. I mean, I actually felt that like I was having a panic attack, you know, which is how I felt, you know, that night and during all of that. So it got a little easier.

We watched it the second time. I didn't have the reaction. It's still hard to watch. But I will tell you, if you hadn't seen the movie yet, that now you can get it like Amazon, you can rent it or buy it anywhere. The last 20 minutes of the film are worth for us, I'm talking about it. I think the whole thing would be great for anybody. But the last 20 minutes was such an uplifting thing for me.

It was like even, it just was a reminder. It was like, oh, yeah, it was all worth it. Yeah. It was all worth it. You know, just seeing Lisa renewed, you know, and Haley and Luke both, we both reached out to them because we were, they'd just such a good job. I mean, as the actors that played y'all.

The actors that played us. And, you know, they're young people, but they got it. They got it from the script. They understood. And so they just, and even Luke got me from the cocky young 18-year-old that I was. Because, you know, we go through my transformation, the early part of the film,

which was very moving to me, the coming home to mom and dad's house, the being accepted back and the grace and all that that was there. We buzzed during that part. It's funny because I'm glad it

it worked out for you because the headlines that I read it didn't work out these people with the headlines right? When you read last night was like

it was like, it was like it just happened He can never forgive. He can never forgive he's rejected her forever and I was like you didn't want this month. The book that you guys wrote

was called Desperate Forgiveness right? Yeah, yeah. There was forgiveness and there was redemption and it was full circle moment too. Yeah. Like I love,

you know, this was crazy about your story because we've shared this on the podcast before because why I go through that they feel kind of struggle with this too we did the blind yeah there was a a lot of psychological

and physiological response to him telling that story again and it was painful for him I mean Phil was not a crier but I mean I saw him cry several times during the making of the film Yeah.

And not, I mean, like, not like, there was one moment where the tears were not, it wasn't a stream. It was like a, like, I mean, like the kind of cry. Ugly cry. Ugly cry. Ugly cry. Ugly cry. Ugly cry. Ugly cry.

Because it just leaves that. It's very painful. So, Jay's, you were just away on vacation. I was curious as to how did you arrange the care for your little poochies. Did they go with you or did they stay at the house or what happened there? I start them off with a little rough greens just to say, I'm sending a message that I'll be back. Well, the rough greens is very important because it's an all-natural USA-made supplement created by our good friend, Dr. Dennis Black. Some of the most popular dog foods out there still use dangerous additives linked to organ damage, cancer, and chronic inflammation.

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Rough Greens. We make any dog food better. But what's interesting about, like, why do that? The Bible says the way we overcome the accuser in Revelation 12. is won by obviously the blood of the lamb. Yeah. That's the, yeah, of course. But then the power of our testimony.

Yeah. Which is hilarious. The world doesn't get that part. But the power of that testimony. And, man, I don't know. I've been reading some of these comments from the last time you were on and sharing your story. And even your story about being molested as a child and some of these things that have come out that are painful to talk about. Right.

These are not things that we're like, hey, let's talk about. These are very awkward, hard conversations to have, but bringing that out into the open. I mean, you've read some of these emails that we get, too. Some of the emails that we get are like, I mean, are so, like, the inspiration that's coming out of the testimony to inspire people to move towards Christ. And these are a lot of people who aren't walking with Christ. and in very, very hard circumstances and living in lifestyles that are contrary to the Word of God

and they're saying, I need to change. And that's, and your story inspires. Which is why we do it. And I want to say something, I'm so glad you brought that up because you're talking about comments.

We did a, Fox did a piece on us that then went into a lot of other places and I made the mistake of doing what I tell you not to do. But it's just because I read to the bottom of the piece and then there's like the first five or six people have commented on. and out of the bat. And everyone was negative about us and about telling us story.

Why would they do this and keep this to yourself? Why do you need to air this dirty laundry? And I'm tired of people making excuses. People. Lisa's not making excuses about her behavior. She has owned it all along. I fully accept that. What she's doing is giving you a reason why the evil one got into her life when he did.

And initially, it wasn't her fault. But then it sets something in her. And she tells us very plainly. So anybody's out there that keeps saying she's making excuses, she's never made excuses for her own behavior. But she gives reasons why things happen. Because if you don't understand the reasons, you can't go back and figure out how to let God heal you.

That's the thing. And all the people that have reached out to us that have had similar things, or I remember the woman after Desperate, that was, what, 72 years old? This woman is 72 years old. And she had had a life. of bad relationships and bad marriages and the way she related to me and couldn't figure out, why is it so bad?

She had cried out to God, but couldn't find what she needed. And she read the book, and she was like, now I know. I know why I've been this way in my whole life because she had a similar experience, but didn't understand that that had put her in this place, that she had to go back. And when Lisa describes that about taking Christ back with her as a child and then as a teenager, and then through the different things she had done. And that's what our counselor, who was so good at doing. And we let Christ heal every one of those hurts right up to the current 33-year-old woman.

And then she becomes a different person, literally. And quite honestly, a person who a lot of people that were in my ear at the time were telling me she would not change. You just made a mistake. You married the wrong person. I mean, the same thing I've heard people say a million times. And for a while, I thought maybe they were right until God convinced me they were. and there was something about this woman that was not only worth saving from his perspective,

but from my perspective. And so that's what opened the door. And so, but to see that through faith, and that's why I love that they call it faith in forgiveness because it takes both. And you have to be willing to do that. There's a scene in the movie. It was so powerful of mom and I sitting there together,

and I'm in contemplation mode. And out of our family, I've said this before publicly, that out of our family, mom was probably the only one that was sort of more neutral or kind of leaning towards, you know, Lisa could change. And everybody else in the family, dad included, we're just like, nope, she'd not change. You know, you're probably just got to move on some. Well, but in defense of them, this was not the first transgression that I'd had against Allen. So I don't want people to say, oh, well, they don't think people can change.

This was not the first time. And they felt like they were being strong for me. I've said this before. And everybody was hurt. Lisa was at the company. She was right there with the family. And this whole meltdown happened as a family. And so everybody was hurt in the moment.

But mom in the scene says she's reminded me of dad's change and her forgiveness of him. She's also reminded me that I was unfaithful to Lisa, which is what drove her into a terrible tailspin when I was younger because I just left her. I mean, we were together then. And in the movie, it's great because like the Luke version of me, like has this aha moment. Like, oh, yeah, I was terrible. And God forgave me and renewed me. And so I always think about that verse in Luke 7 where the, you know, the woman is there and she's just, I mean,

scandalously, you know, seeking God's love from Jesus. Remember the hair and the crying and Simon? is sitting there looking at her like who do you think you are you can never change i mean he's the representative of that person who says no you know if he knew who she was there's no way he he would kick her out and then jesus knowing his heart says something so profound he says simon and he gives him a little you know sermon and then he says in verse 47 the person who has been forgiven much will love much yeah But the person who's been forgiven little will love little. And he doesn't even say that's you, but we all got the point, right?

Well, I think that verse, there's no one more fitting. I mean, you love people in a way that is so real and is so tangible and is so of the Lord. It's interesting because I didn't come into this story until after this it all happened And whenever Zach and I started dating and getting engaged, and Zach will tell you, who was always my favorite Robertson woman, it was you. Like there was something, I just remember always saying, she's just so real. I just, you just make people feel safe.

You make people feel like they can be honest. And, you know, hearing you say asking God to not let you forget that feeling so that you could remember it when you're talking with people. that is your spiritual gifts. Because if I come across a young woman that is going through something, I know that you would love her and just heap compassion on her in a way that is so beautiful. And so I'm just in awe of really and truly you allowing God to

use you. And I mean, to think of y'all not sharing this story, I mean, that I think to me is of all the people myself included, I've been impacted by your story so much. And for you to not have put that out there, man. Well, you know, it's funny because the night we're watching the movie, of course, we're getting texts from people. And because now it's out there. So, you know, a lot of our friends, Paula, you know, who's in the movie.

And, you know, Paula's like, oh, so. hard to watch. I dreamed about it all night. And I was like, yeah, I did too the first time. But Lil' little Mia, Jason, Mrs. Daughter, sends us a sonogue. So they're all together at the beach. And she's watching it. So like halfway through during one of the commercials, she texts us. And she said, we're watching the movie. And just said some really neat stuff to us. But what she said was great. Because I said, because this was just before we got to that part. And I said, there's a tough part coming up. Lisa is like giving her, there's a warning sign of hand. It's a tough part of them.

But she said, I'm learning so much. And when you said that about learning about the family, and then Cole just got married last year to Emelin, and she said, Emily and keeps asking questions during every commercial because she's trying to figure out all out because they don't really know the whole story. And so, again, these are in our own family. But these are the kids. You got the thumbs up from Jace too.

Chase loved it. And not as a shame nation. I was shocked. And not as a backhand compliment. No. Because typically, if he liked it, he'll say, well, I'll say, well, I'll thought. it was going to be horrible when I watched it. And you know what?

It wasn't horrible. That means I really liked it. He actually went further and gave you a positive affirmation. That was a healing moment too, right? It was. It was really good. Here's something that I'll tell you, Jill. And this is the reason why that we share.

So we were at the Salvation Army thing that I was speaking at. It's a women's event, probably 400 plus women there. Yeah. And so afterwards, this woman comes up to me. And you could just look at her and tell she had had a rough life. And she said, I'm 67 years old. And she actually looked a lot older than that. But she said, a lot of the same things that happened to you happen to me.

She said, do you think I'm too old to tell my story? I said, you are never too old to tell the story of what God's done in your life. I said, you start telling it now. Because at the end of one of my speeches, I always say, tell your story and give God the glory. And so she said, do you think I'm too old for that? And I was like, never. You start right now. And her daughter was over there, and she goes, Mom, you can start with me.

Tell me your story. And I was like, oh, wow. And she teared up. They both did when she said it. Well, when we had Mac and Mary on our podcast, not yet now, you've got to check that episode out, by the way. If you haven't seen that, it was. Some of our listeners have sent me notes about how great it was.

It was so good. I even got chastised because they were like, you've had Mac on twice and he hadn't noticed stuff. And I was like, well, we're always talking about so much stuff. It was so good. Their story's incredible. Are you one of those media strategy people clicking through slides, scrolling spreadsheets?

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So, are you ready to talk to fans? Spotify Advertising. You're among things. I was crazy about me and Jill talked a whole lot about that. We've been talking about this a lot ever since that like we've got to come out of hiding. Like we have a good friend. One of Jill's best friends from high school was telling us that, you know, she watched that whole thing.

And she went off into drug addiction for a number of years. And she was talking about how those family secrets, even early, you know, hiding things. Like just, I felt not even, no one said hide it. You just, it was the thing. you hide these things and they start to pile up on you. And to me, the healing comes from coming out of hiding. And that's biblical. That's the whole fig leaf.

That's what we did in the garden. That's what our ancestors did. We learned it from our ancestors. Well, and I loved it, Zat, that you, in your wedding sermon, you're the block of your, you know, when you do a wedding, the first part is kind of the biblical connection. And you did it out of Genesis 2 and 3, and 1, 2, and 3. And it was so powerful because it goes back.

to that, right? The idea that we get it. The very first husband and wife had issues, you know, and sin was a problem. And then they had to deal with that. And it wasn't just dealing with that with God. Everybody wants to talk about that, but they had to deal with it within their relationship and how that affected their family. And so nobody's perfect. And so I just thought whether you're talking to a couple on the first day of their journey, which you guys did, or us, who were 41 years plus into that journey or that lady, you know, who, however she is in there. The impactful part is that God can redeem and take away shame and take away, you know, past hurts and take away all of it and build it.

And we want to get there as quick as we can. At least I say all the time, when we tell a story, it's as much cautionary as it is. We're doing it to help hurting people, but it's also a cautionary tale. Yeah. You don't want people to make the same mistakes. We heard that. I mean, I think we heard that, right? Oh, absolutely.

We heard the cautionary tale. Yeah. And so we got to bypass a lot of your pain. Exactly. Which is to us, that's the ultimate testimony, is we avoided some things. When I was early in ministry, and again, we deal with this in the film. And again, for you excuse people. It's not an excuse.

But it's some reasons why I was so committed to my new journey in Christ and now this new opportunity in ministry that I neglected my wife and daughters during this period of time. I mean, it just, it was there. Now some people would say, well, yeah, but you were doing the Lord's work. I was, but I was leaving out the very person that needed to be doing it with me. And we didn't figure that out until later. And I just thought that was another thing. The film captures beautifully.

The script did it. And it wasn't throwing the church under the bus. It was just the idea that it was me not realizing the importance of it. There's a balance there. And so what I'm hoping is a lot of young pastors out there and youth pastors and people are just getting into ministry, well, look at that and say, you know, I don't want to do that. I want to make sure my wife, my, my brother. bride is right there, at least with the bride of Christ.

That we're together in this, because we're going to be doing this ministry for as long as God has us on the earth together. And one that Mike Watkins that told you that one time. Yeah, he did. The late Mike Watkins. Yeah, he did. The late, great, Mike Wattons. He wrote me one of the most touching letters, and Mike was a guy, he was an engineer,

and, you know, he's one of those kind of guys that, man, he could just get under your skin so easily for just though his personality. But he was such an observer of people. people. And he sent me like a seven-page letter, handwritten letter when I was in the contemplation of whether I was going to go back with Lisa. And he was pro us being back together. And it was just one of the most encouraging things because, and I told him that many times, not too long before he died, they came to our marriage retreat because they had moved away. And it was a chance to reconnect with him. But I told him, I said, Mike, you remember that letter you sent me? And of course, he doesn't

forget anything. He said, yes, I remember. I think it was a bit long. You know, he just goes to engineer Moe. And I was like, it really was one of the things that helped sway me to the right choice. I heard a rumor he was in the CIA.

He may have been. He might have been. Who knows? Did you hear that? His kids never knew what he did for a living. I think Trish listens to our podcast. So Trish, if you know something,

send me a note. Let me know. You know it and you could say it without. That's exactly right. That's right. Then tell us. If you have to kill us,

don't tell us. But actually, Mike, was part of a crew of people, Buddy Barwick's another one and some others, Stan Williamson, that was a part of your mom's gang in college. They all went to college together at Tech. And so that's how they all kind of knew each other. So it's funny because you mentioned your mom.

And then I saw all like Max and Annabella's all their college age and I guess probably lifelong friends out there all dancing together and having such fun. And I just thought, man, that's it, right? The era of those relationships and some of those will last a long time and some of those you'll lose along the way. but there's always something special. So for us, this whole weekend has been very special

because it started with Lisa talking about her cancer, which is kind of the ongoing part of our testimony because that's a new thing for the last two years of having to deal with that. We learned a lot, again, about ourselves, about how to serve Lisa in a whole new way. And then she did the thing at the Salvation Army, which was so powerful.

And it was the day the movie was coming out. So I was just, I was doing the PowerPoint back there. I called it, arm candy when Lisa's doing all the speaking and so I'm just trying to look, not embarrass her and look good on her behalf. And we met all these wonderful people here in y'all's community.

And then the movie that night and then the wedding. It was just like the perfect like way to see the whole thing together. So sweet. I thought Jill was because that's cool about Annabelle's dress. That was another thing. Yeah.

Yeah, talk about that. Yeah, it was your dress. This was the dress. Jill wore 25 years ago. Wow. And she, how did that even come about? Did she, did you, was that your idea? No, it was the coolest thing. She FaceTime me, which Annabel and I have an amazing relationship.

It is just the sweetest. I mean, I viewed her as a daughter for many years. And she FaceTime me, she was at the thrift store. Annabelle is a thrifter. She's a saver. She's a planner. She, you know, she's been safe. She bought her own car.

She's been saving for her wedding. She's a hard worker. And she facetime me at the thriftime me at the thrifted. store in this wedding dress. And she said, I found this at the thrift store. What do you think about it? And when I saw it, because I had no idea what kind of style she was going for, when I saw it, I thought, if that's the style of dress you want, I told her, I said, you need to come to

my house. My mom preserved my wedding dress in this box. It's a better version of what you have on. You at least need to come look at it before you spend $200 on the thrifted. And so she came over and put it on, and she just started weeping. She was like, it fit her perfectly. Like a single thing. Like Cinderella story.

And she just was like, this is my dream dress. And so, yeah. So I think their wedding was so special for, there was a lot of like, like for me and Jill, like, okay, once she's wearing Jill's wedding dress. So that was a moment to see her walk down the aisle in the dress that I saw Jill walk down the aisle in 25 years ago. And you mentioned those friends. Shane was there, Gary was there, you were there.

You had two of Jill's friends that were in our wedding were there. And so I was just, it was just weird. I'm looking around. I'm like, you know, we did keep a lot of these relationships. And now they're at our kids' wedding. And then there's that generational story. I think that's the thing that we can close with when we're talking about this. because what you guys did is you told your story.

Yeah. And your story shapes the imagination of those around you for what the kingdom can be. Yeah. How they can participate in the kingdom. You know, Max and Annabelle, there was a story attached to that. We move in story. And that's why when I started that with my mom, it's because we had a moment, I'll finish with this,

we had a moment right before we went to the venue where Max and, Max and Laylor were playing this song that they wrote about time passing by quickly. Of course, I listen, and it was like, well, no, isn't playing. It's like, hey, this is a song we wrote. They were just singing it for me. And I mean, and I look up and Fred's just, it's just our friend. Okay, and maybe I was crying. Everybody was crying.

And then we had this moment of sincerity, which is hard for the Dasher, you know, clan. And they were talking about May May. And today's May May May's birthday, which is my mom. And we're all dressed up like, I mean, we got all the cowboy hats on and all that. And he was like, I just remember May May used to always say, never get horizontal with a girl until you're married. Don't lay horizontal. And you know, only peck on the cheek. And there's other things that were said that she would say that I won't repeat.

And didn't repeat at the wedding either because she kind of had that feel. That Robertson thing. Yeah. But May May inspired that story into my kids, along with a lot of other people. And so what that wedding was, it was a story that we were living into of the gospel of Jesus Christ. And sometimes that story is a testimony of redemption. Sometimes that story is like, no, we didn't go down that route. But together, we're all in this place together.

All different kind of stories unified around the one. story of a guy who came to urge it. And what I love about that is this, Zach, in a lot of people's families, they have generational curses where it happened to the mom, it happened to the daughter, it happened to the granddaughter, and it goes for years and years, and, you know, those curses just continue to happen. With this, you have generational blessings. Yes.

So with your mom, with y'all, now with, with, you know, with. Max and Layla and their families that they're going to have, those are generational blessings, which is what we want more than we want the other. I mean, we want to cut the generational curse, but we want to extend through generations that generational blessings. All right. We're out of time. Jays wasn't even here. We still run out of time. That's a podcast we've never done. We call it love and marriage. We'll see you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out. by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts.

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