Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1344 | America Has Forgotten That Freedom Requires Skin in the Game

Episode Date: May 29, 2026

Al, Zach, Christian, and John Luke look at how the French and Indian War helped forge a distinct American identity through hardship, failure, and the colonies’ growing frustration with British control. The guys connect taxation without representation, George Washington’s early battlefield lessons, and the founders’ fight for liberty to today’s entitlement culture. Zach challenges modern Americans to get “skin in the game” through family, work, ownership, and faith, while Al reflects on Phil’s longtime defense of America’s founders as flawed men who still built something worth honoring. Watch the trailer for Hillsdale’s full-length documentary Revolutionary America, narrated by Tom Selleck at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jeBinuMUhE Today’s conversation is about Lesson 6 of Colonial America: From Wilderness to Civilization from Hillsdale College. Take the course with us at no cost to you! Sign up at http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/. More about Colonial America: Professors of history and politics guide us through the perilous journey of the Mayflower and the grueling winters of Cape Cod. They explore the ideas of religious liberty and natural rights, as well as the brutal conflicts, such as the wars on the frontier and the French and Indian War. Through this six-lesson appreciation of the colonial experience, you will learn how the unique American spirit was shaped. Journey to the New World and discover the origins of the American spirit. Sign up at ⁠http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/ Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/at-home-with-phil-robertson/id1835224621 Listen to Not Yet Now with Zach Dasher on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or anywhere you get podcasts. Chapters 00:00 Hillsdale’s New Film 04:05 Al Watches His Story On-Screen 08:15 Washington’s Translation Disaster 15:10 Larger Than Life Washington 19:00 America Becomes the Battleground 27:30 Taxation without Representation 31:50 John Luke Asks the Big Question 38:50 Liberty & the Danger of Wanting a King 45:30 America’s Flawed Story of Liberty— Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to the Unashamed podcast. It is our Friday episode with Hillsdale College. We're taking these free online courses. I can't believe they don't charge for these. You guys can check them out at Unashamed for Hillsdale.com. We're in Colonial America. And I want to tell you, our friends at Hillsdale College have a new documentary coming out to theaters. It's called Revolutionary America, narrated by Tom Selleck, the icon. It feels like the next chapter after this course we're taken right here on colonial America. It tells the real story of how this country started.

It's not some watered down version either. It's a real deal how ordinary people risk everything. And against all odds, they actually pulled it off and built something that's lasted until like 250 years. And with that anniversary coming up, it's a story that people need to understand. It's when we need to pass on. And this is one of those stories that you want to see on the big screen, not just stream it later. And it's only in theaters for a limited time. So you guys can get your tickets.

at Hillsdale.edu slash film, and we will put the link in the show notes. Al, everybody, welcome. It's good to see you guys again. It's good to be here. It's great to see you again, Zach. Thanks for being here today. Hey, I wouldn't have missed it for the world.

Thank you for your sarcasm. Kristen and I are holding down the studio. I was not being sarcastic. It actually is good to. No, it's actually good to see you because last episode, John Luke was big and you were tiny, but now you're big and John Luke's tiny on the screen. It actually is good to see you.

John Lucas coming back to us from Parts Unknown. Parts Unknown. Parts unknown. The top bunk of a bunk bed. I actually could not see y'all last time at all. Now, I can see you this time. Oh, really? No, I was just talking into the air, just blind. That is impressive.

You did, well, I did not know that. That's not easily done when you can't see the people. But that's an old pro. So we're glad Luke is with us today as well, wherever he's at. You know, it's interesting because on the last podcast, we were talking about the Great Awakening and the spiritual fuel that's led us to where we're going to get into today, which to me becomes like a huge test. Anytime there's, you know, you go through a renewal period in your life, there's always going to,

it seems to be a test coming right after. Maybe just for authenticity. You know, the Bible says, you know, we are tested. And I thought about Zach, you made a comment about. thinking about this in film, you know, because obviously, you know, producing things, other ways to be able to share the gospel and show the power of God. There's different ways to be able to do that. And so by a few years ago, you and I started with you and I and dad,

and then has moved now to Willie and Corey and what they're doing as well with beyond just television shows, but movies, documentaries. And you mentioned that about the power, of telling a story with flaws because that's because that's what happens, right? It's nothing's perfect. And so our, we happen to be recording this, but by the time this comes out, it'll probably be out. But Lisa and I, we had a movie that our production company joined with the one that's doing

the Duck Dynasty Revival production company and produced a movie about mine and Lisa's life. And so I got to see it for the first time this week. and a copy before it releases. And it's a hard watch. I mean, I just got to be honest. It was, you know, and I mean, you live it. So you know it. We talk about it all the time.

It's part of our testimony. But, Zach, when you see it, you know, you see actors playing yourself. And I got to say, the actors that played us did a great job because halfway through the movie, I felt like I was watching myself, you know, going through what I was going through. And it was interesting because we had talked about the, uh, I think John Luke had read a quote from a kingdom of God, Whitfield's sermon about baptism. And it was interesting because Lisa only really cried at one part, you know, us watching the movie.

And it was when she was baptized for a second time. Because earlier in the film, she was baptized when she and I, you know, right before we got married. And she describes it as getting baptized into the Robertson family. not really into Christ, because that was more her motivation at that point, which was a lot of her thinking that wasn't right, which is exactly what Whitfield said. I mean, if baptism is not to understand my submission to Christ, then it's for some other reason that's probably not going to yield fruit for you. But whenever she went through everything she went through in her life,

and of course it's in the film, she comes to that point of true submission and revival for her. and then Paula, her best friend, baptizes her, which really happened, and it happens in the movie, and it's beautiful. And there's a song, it's called I Will Surrender, that's being sung as it happens, and it's just a beautiful part of the film. But I looked over, and, you know,

that's when that was what really got her, was that reminder of going back. And so when we were talking about that, even as a nation, as a people, I thought, man, that's just, it's individual lives that make the turn. And so right after that, there's a scene that where mom and I, mom is talking to me and, you know, about what I'm going to do because Lisa and I are split up. And I said, well, I don't know. I'm thinking about leaving, which is exactly where I was at that point.

And it was her in the film and in real life that reminded me the power of forgiveness, both in hers and dad's life. But then also, Lee said forgiven me in my worst years when I treated her terribly when we were very, young. We were dating. And it was just, again, that reasoning of understand it, we go through things so that we can then help other people. And so I do think that's one of the things that's helped America, flaws in all, to try to be a help for the world, is the idea that we've gone through a lot. And so this episode, and I'm with Christian, I thought this whole series is it's just gotten better as we've come through it in terms of just the lectures. I've been more and more pulled in.

Yeah. It was just hard to leave the narrative now because it's so good. I know. I want to continue. And so when we get to this point, it's such a big test for the people. And it's right on the cusp of, you know, really our forefathers becoming a nation that now we're a part of. And but I just couldn't help but relate that to, you know, my own spiritual journey

and the idea that we fall short and we make huge mistakes and we have to be called back to do them the right thing. And so, you know, so. those of you are listening to our podcast on every Friday, I'd love for you to check the movie out. By now, it's out on Lifetime. So however you can, I wasn't that familiar with Lifetime movies.

I have to be honest, I don't think I've ever seen one. So now I'm encouraging you to get Lifetime and check out our movie. If they're all like this one, because this is quite the story. So Zach, kudos to you and our team and everybody. I was very, very pleased with how it turned out. Well, it does show, though, that anytime you've had some,

something that's birthed into awakening, whether that be a spiritual awakening, whether that be the birth of America, you know, our independence. There's also like the pain, like the labor pain of coming through that, which, you know, in Lisa's case, it was, in your case, all of our case, it's coming to the end of our self. The people who experienced those, that, the great awakening, listened to the guys like Jonathan Edwards. Yeah, they would, they would fill the weight of their sin and they had to go through that to get through to the enlightening or the light of Christ in them.

And then the American experiment the same thing. We're heading into these wars now. So things kind of get worse before they get better. And before we even have an American Revolution to go see what you film about, by the way, we have to enter into

the French and Indian War. And that was a key part of kind of, it was a painful part of American history. It cost a lot. You know, I don't know if you guys had thoughts on that. My thought on the Virginia War that I'd never, I just didn't know

that it was a terrible thing in American history and terrible thing that happened, but also was one of the big hurting points to creating when America is in the mindset of the settlers, the settlers at the time to say

like, we are distinct group from Britain, which was just interesting to me. Well, I didn't know, yeah, because obviously this whole lecture was pretty much, a lot of it was around George Washington and the French and Indian War and the start of it, which if you want to go ahead and get into that, because I was, I had no idea how the war started. Was that like common of, like the whole translation thing? Was that, is that common knowledge to people? That's how the war started? heard that before either. I didn't know it. Yeah. That was just the craziest thing to me. It's like,

and I feel like today would be like a Saturday Night Live skit of like George Washington's translator fails the nuance of one word. Yeah. And leads to a, it leads to a, and what, it was what 13 year war? I mean, it's like a long time. It was just like, because George Washington's translator like didn't cover him on one word and the nuance of what that word translated to these, to these French people, and it just, bloodbath for a decade. Never long, yeah. I never, I never heard that, or that was just the craziest thing to me. That's how this war started.

But, you know, Zach, is interesting, because we talk a lot on Regal and Unashamed about nation building, and we go back a lot to the Tower of Bible and language, and, you know, how that confusion there had led to the separation of nations. and then, of course, we see God's Nation come along in Genesis 12. And that is interesting that you could make a case that the entire American Revolution started by not understanding French fully in one context and getting one word wrong, which led to the war that, like John Luke said, really opened the minds. Because what's interesting about this war is so we're still British subjects,

although we're not treated like British subjects. I mean, it was very evident they were treating America. like second-class Brits because they were here. And so they were, because they didn't fight the way that always fought. And so these Britain, the British troops that were coming over were treating, you know, our people terribly. And they're up against the French. And it's really interesting because then when the revolution happens later, we know that the French then come to our aid against the Brits. And so it just goes to show you, you know, you think in a war situation, they're fighting.

and it's kind of the old two continents. Like they said, it's really just being fought out, the old French and British wars that have been going on for their proximity. They just moved the battleground over here. But it winds up, they switch teams later anyway. And so it is interesting the way it all that. Yeah, I thought the lecture did a good job

of kind of pulling out that nuance of how it seemed like England was protecting America. but it was actually just to control them. So I thought that was really interesting because I don't know if I necessarily would have thought that on the surface of they have all these plans and these things

to where you seem like that's, you know, them wanting to protect the colonies, but it was actually just to get to control them. So I thought the lecture did a really good job of pulling that out and helping to understand the tension there. Yeah, the one example of that that I had never heard of is, I don't remember exactly which one it was, but the Americans

captured the fort and, like, a bunch of people died. They had this big victory and they held the city. And then England traded the city back to France for like an island in the Caribbean for like sugar. And I, that, I would be so mad in that situation. Like, if I was a Pennsylvania or whatever, I don't know who it was, whoever it was, if I like, I went, you know, my friends died and I did all I could to have this. And then Britain was like, oh, thanks for giving that to us. We're going to trade that back for some sugar. Well, what about the story when George Washington was with General Braddock and then they were all losing the war? And George Washington was kind of like looking around. And then they all start scalping the people that were already dead.

And he's like, I'm out of here. His letter to his mom, he was like, it was like, you know, divine. protection. It was just like, you know, because that was what they did at the time. You know, when people would die, they would scalp them. And I just, I just picture him, like, looking around as they're all scalping the dead people. And he's just, I think I might get out of here now. It reminded me so much, it's around me so much a dad because there's a, on the, on the original show, the little duck show, there was a scene where they're out getting catching frogs on a golf course.

and so they're supposed to then the cops are supposed to catch them and so dad's like, nope, he ain't getting me, boys. He's telling this to the people that's setting up, you know, the producers and they're like, yeah, it's going to be funny, Mr. Phil, you know, they're going to catch you.

He said, nope, never happened. Never would have got me. And so they're like, well, okay. So do you want to just slip away? He said, yeah, just leave it to me. So like in the scene, he, you know, everybody gets caught. You know, the cops get them on the golf course

for getting the golf ball. and the frogs and blah, blah, blah, whatever the setup was. And dad, you just see him slip away, you know, do the deal. And it happens later in the show as well. And it was really funny because I asked dad about, I was like, did they tell you to do that? And he said, I don't know. They wanted me to get caught with the rest of it. But you know good and well, son.

I'd never get called. So it was like he had this ability back, you know, from his old running days to get away. But there definitely was something about Washington because he said he, what he had been, Four shots went through his coat and then two horses shot out from under. I mean, you just think about that, the idea that he didn't even get shot. And then the frozen river story. Yeah, he goes in the water. And he's like, yeah, it was, you know, luckily I grabbed a hold of something.

It was just like, this guy. Well, and then he woke up, then the river was frozen, then they took the horses over the river. And then just walked across. Yeah. Yeah. It's almost like larger than life kind of stories about Washington. That shows you what the human spirit is capable of. I mean, like, I think about, man, I don't, could we even survive some of the things that he went through, you know.

But we can, humanity can handle quite a bit. And those early guys, they were, they were beast. But it's interesting, I thought about how that, how the, you know, American, America was basically that theater for the global conflict, you know, between England and France, as you mentioned earlier, Al. And it's, isn't that the case now that is still like that, that part of politics has continued on? I mean, you think about how many wars are fought that are really just proxy wars. I mean, Ukraine seems to be, you know, the West versus, you know, Russia and then Iran, maybe the West versus China. And it's all these, but they use these different places and different conflicts as a way to kind of resolve or try to, I guess,

conquer each other. The hiccup with the Americans, the American being the theater for all this, though, was they, they did not anticipate what had already been like seated here in kind of the psyche of the colonies. And that I think was the big like story that's going to come out of this is they, both sides kind of underestimated really what, you know, what, what was happening over here because it was new and there wasn't really a context for a people who could or would want to govern themselves. What is it? What do they even mean? You know what I mean? Well, and even the, Zach, even the generation that had landed and the ones that survived,

so many of them died. But what they learned, because now, I remember we're talking about over 100 years. So we're talking about a couple of three generations of people that have learned how to live in a, as dad would say, in a rough piece of real estate, you know, over here. This is way different than the countryside of Jolly O England, you know, or, or, or France, this was a rough neighborhood. And with all the Native Americans that were here as well and everything that they learned. So there was a toughness, a brutality, certainly the warfare part of it plays a huge role in this,

you know, what happens here. But then also happens in the American Revolution. And so, yeah, it's, this is a, you're right. I think they just didn't realize what happens over the course of time and how it changes people. And they adapted. to hear and uh, Christian and I were talking about it in the break, but between our podcast that these people,

they were on the edge of this thing were some, they were some rough individuals. I mean, they, they, they were way tougher than in, probably anybody walking around here much today. Oh,

that, that's what I was going to say to, like they were rough people. Even like Sam Adams, who's like kind of known for being like a, like, a, like, later is known for being a kind of like smaller guy.

Like he was in charge of this like, group of, like thugs essentially and which was like was keeping the peace in town and George Washington like doing all that like it was such a different level of yeah like of just rough compared to like the Europeans

who were just like living it up like thinking back to I was thinking about Ben Franklin when he went to France and they were like he's like the noble savage he's like this wild man from America and like that's Ben Franklin like that's That's not easy.

He's not even close to George Washington, but like that was the perception of the Europeans of like of Americans. Like they weren't even close. The Europeans are so comfy. They didn't even have the, didn't know how ironiering and inventive and tough the Americans were at the time. Yeah. Because, you know, you watch those old films, uh, or films about like the old war, war day. the old wars and you see them they they march out in the field and they line up and they point their weapons at each other and they shoot and one group falls down and they reload and they shoot

and i'm like that's the dumbest thing i would like but we like we have been incubated in the kind of the american culture we look at that think that's ridiculous but to them they i mean the brits i mean they're thinking this is this is gentleman warfare right and so the the guys that in the colonies which the French Indian War brought the colonies closer together. So there's a weird kind of dichotomy going on here that, yes, they're building allegiance with each other, and they're also kind of connected with the homeland, England, to fight a common enemy.

What is they saying? The enemy of my enemy is my friend, and so that's what's happening here. But the colonial Americans, they're the ones that have the experience in just surviving. So we actually will hide behind, a tree when we shoot and they're like, oh, that's horrible. You could never, well, we're going to do that. We're not going to get shot. You know what I mean? And it was kind of that guerrilla warfare

that was one of the reasons why they were able to win. But they weren't great fighters, but then also through that whole process of the war, what happens to the colonial fighters and the militias, they actually get skilled in warfare and they get more of a common American identity. And so you can start to see that even though the Americans, and the colonies are on the same side as England, this is like providing the necessary backstory for what will happen later on. But I just thought that was interesting how they would,

kind of, the English would kind of snub their nose, probably at the way the Americans were fighting. But then it was probably also like, but I'm glad somebody's doing it. You know what I mean? Well, that was how they lost one of the wars because they estimated there was like 300 people but then they ended up being 900 because they were all hiding behind the trees and stuff.

So I want you to sign up and take the course with us for free at Unashamed for Hillsdale.com. I like your point, Zach, about the warfare idea still being in these, you know, regional places. And you're right. Even the Middle East, which we're currently involved in, a situation. And it really does, it's the old balances of power. It's oil. it's all these other economies that matter and long history of things.

You have time with the Persians and the Israelis. I mean, that's going back to biblical days, you know, that these wars are being found. And they still play themselves out into our political structure. So it is, it does, you know, the old deal of wars and rumors of wars, you know, I mean, it's been around ever since we've been,

ever since the nations. I mean, going all the way back to the Tower of Bible, which is powerful. Well, one thing is Washington figured out, too, in this, we were talking about Washington, is he was deeply formed by this war, particularly as he served under General Braddock. And what he learned, I thought this is so interesting. So he's, and this is, I love this because you don't know what you're learning in the perceived failures or even successes, but he's watching the bravery of this man.

He's like, that's impressive. but he's also seeing that he's so entrenched in the European warfare style that he's like, you're not going to, like, there's no way that you can, like, win by bravery alone. You've got to have a, like, strategy around this. And they're like, what, what he, so Washington ends up becoming a genius in his own right, mainly because he was able to observe the bravery, yes, which I think is a key part of Washington's story as well, but also at the same time, like learning to be strategic, which he'll later use, whenever he fights the English with their European warfare style, which they were entrenched in.

So you're seeing kind of all of this formation of a type of idea, type of thought. It's very organic. It's very deconsolidated. Everything is, I mean, it's absolutely brilliant. And you can start to see now this is an identity that's starting to emerge in the American psyche. And it's back to that victory out of. of failure again concept. We were talking about from the last episode

in the spiritual side of it because Washington experienced a lot. I mean, he was the reason they had the war to begin with. You know, because of a failure of a translator. And then these other, these losses and him barely escaped with his life, all the stuff we've already mentioned.

And when you get into the American Revolution, there's books written about all the different things that happened. Just miraculous escapes and all the things that he does. So there's definitely this idea. There was way more failure than victory until there was victory. And so it just, it seems to go back to this divine idea that when you, when you surrender your heart to something bigger, that allows you to see things and understand things in a different way. And I think

pride was a big part of this, Zach. I think pride was the British pride that this is the way it'll be always. And then they won. They wound up winning. And so then that fuel that even more. And I think that made them underestimate their own colonists now on steroids, which is why they wound up losing the war to the colonists. You know, same deal. I think it's pride. And I think when pride runs itself out of the minds of men and militaries or anybody else, then you're going to have a lot of defeat. The question is, do you learn anything from it? Yeah, also, I think this whole war, So this war, it exposes kind of this, I don't want to say incompetency, just like an obsolete old way of fighting war on the side of the, you know, the European, you know, established models and styles of warfare. That was definitely, it exposed those weaknesses for sure.

But it also exposed kind of the weaknesses of the colony, one of the big weaknesses of the colony, which is essentially that they were, they were, they were, to deconsolidated. So we talk about deconsolidation a lot and how the American system, a system governed for the people by the people, the consent of the people, but they, they hadn't really, they needed something to kind of bring them together. And so that Albany Plan of Union that Franklin brought in was a key movement here because what it, what it did is they're looking around, they're saying, we need a, we need a more of a centralized representation. Because right now, it's like, you know, it's a wild west out here. It's just, I mean, every man for himself. And it's great. We're governing ourselves. We need more of a formalized

structure, though, that later will pave the way for how they're going to go against the monarchy that they all are still under that authority. Well, and even the results, you know, once the war was over and they signed the treaty, you see that the Brits were always about control because the first thing they did was start taxing and saying, well, you got to pay for this. I mean, you know, you got to put some pounds to the crown, you know. And they had already put so much into it. It was, you know, and the crown never paid them back. But now it's like, we want more.

Yeah, I can't remember what it was, but it was like, yeah, it was, the amount of money they gave versus what they got back in return was, it was. Yeah, one of them was, wasn't it Pennsylvania that had put in a 500,000 pounds? It was like 500,000 and then they got back 60,000. And then they turned right around and start tax them. attacks them. Yeah, and on the sugar and all the other stuff. Yeah. So it is this idea, to your point, Zab, it's really interesting because you're seeing the lines

form that you do have to have some consolidation and unity, but at the same time, if you go too far, then you get tyranny. I mean, it's just a razor's edge the entire time because you see this tyrannical monarchy that now is being led by parliament. They're supposed to be of the people for the people, but they don't consider the colonists to be, you know, worthy of that. Well, you see it in this way. So they win the war, which is great. Everybody claps and like, thank you for, you know, getting rid of the French. And then they, but they lose the goodwill of colonial America. They lose all that goodwill. And the reason why was because they racked up a massive war debt. And

And to England's credit, they're trying to find a way to get it paid for now. So they're going to say, well, you're going to pay for it. And so they overtaxed the people. But it wasn't really just the overtaxation. The key thing was it was the taxation without representation. They didn't have any kind of representation in parliament, but they were being taxed heavily. And I think that was the big thing. It wasn't just the taxation because we're overtax now.

I mean, I'm like, I'm looking at my house. just my property taxes on my house of like almost quadruples and tell on this home. But I do have a voice and I can't at least vote and we're voting people in power. And I try to make my voice known. Unfortunately, my guys haven't been winning lately. That's why our taxes are so high locally. But they didn't even have that. They didn't have that option.

And so you can start to see that there's that resentment begins to really brew. And I can understand why. Can you imagine if you had no... I'm frustrated and I do have a vote. If I had no say whatsoever, that would be very difficult. It totally makes sense and how it all kind of shook down. When you see that the crown, the king or the queen at the time, or king, I actually don't know,

the crown at the time saw America as a business investment, like adventure and all the resources and all the people there as I mean essentially like employees in this business but they actually care about the land where the Americans saw themselves not as like employees in this business adventure but as another county of England like we're the same whether you're in Boston or London like we see ourselves as the same people, but the people in London did not see the people in Boston as the same. They just saw that whole group as like, they're a whole separate thing. They can live or die or lose or gain. It doesn't matter to us as long as the resources are coming back home. More than that,

I think it was not that they're just employees. I mean, I think it was either we are consenting to being governed by you and to being taxed by you or we're slaves. And so that was kind of, it was, it was worse than just the working for you. They're, they're saying, if, if, if, if, if Because at least an employee gives you the consent, right? An employee gives their employer consent. And so when they did the Stamp Act and they said, we're going to start taxing papers and printing materials in the colonies, we're going to tax all these things, goods and services, or whatever,

we're going to tax, we're going to start levying a tax on you. You have no representation. We don't care what you say. We don't need your consent. We're going to take what we want to take. Well, they're like, well, that's a violation of our rights. And that means that we're slaves. And so then that's the underlying resentment that starts to brew

and it just starts to spread like a wildfire in the colonies, which you can imagine, you start taking people's money. I mean, that's the thing. You start taking people's money. I mean, it's like, I always said it to you, you know, most of my career I got paid W2. I was a W2 employee. And so I would get my paycheck.

I never really, I mean, at first I looked at the stub and I'd be, oh my gosh, like they're taking that much out in taxes. Over the years, they started doing direct deposit, and I just quit looking at the, there was a pay stuff unless I got on there to look. But if you had, if we get rid of like the withholding, I think it's called withholding tax and people had to actually pay taxes, if they had to write a physical check and send that to the government or send cash, I think we'd have another revolution. You know, imagine these people are showing up on your door and they're knocking on your door and they're saying, give me the money now. And you haven't even voted for these people. You haven't given them zero consent. I mean, that, the anger that was boiling over in this moment was palatable.

Okay, I have a question for all. If you're, well, I'm going to switch gears a little bit. If that's all, did you have something else? I was just going to say, I guess there wasn't enough tobacco in Virginia to help cover the cost of the war. Yeah. So here's my question, like thinking about all this. And like, it makes total sense. thinking about the whole series as a whole,

like, it makes total sense, like, where we are as America now. Like, it really opened my eyes to, like, how we got here politically, religiously, in the church, and all the different things. But the thing I'm thinking about is, like, how did this, how do I live out these, like, American values that I see the family followers talk about that Ben Franklin talked about with, like, the, um, uh, the virtues that he had, um, the virtues and things. in bravery that George Washington shows and the things that St.

Adams talked about and the things that George Woodford talked about like what it meant to be an American at the time, they had the ability to kind of like put their money where their mouth is because for them it was live or die. Like they had to live by their own morals. They lived by their morals and they had like such fierce opportunity to do that. Whereas today, for the most, for the most part in America, it's not like a do or die situation. So like when we talk about like religious freedom or liberty or representation, like it's almost kind of like in metaphor, you know, in our daily lives. Like what does that, how do how does that apply to like the average American to me?

That's a great question because I often wonder if the founders what they would think about America, 250 years later. You know, just so much good, so much wealth, so much has been built. Certainly the idea and the dreams of liberty are still here with so many people. But then the underside of kind of what you're describing, Don Luke, and sometimes whenever you have a lot of peace, and prosperity, man, that's when you have inner struggles. And, you know, we were only what, I mean, Washington became president in 89 and ran right up until almost to 1900. And I mean, 1800.

And then you just, you only go just 50 years and we had a civil war. You know, so you think out of that close, I mean, we're talking about just generationally, just right there, we would have understood that we would never want to do that. we would, as Zach described earlier, lining up against fields of our own people, you know, of these people that then had started our own country and we were shooting each other, you know, in the most costly war we've ever had because everybody that died was an American. So, yeah, I think it's easily forgotten, Lou. I think the idea we have to somehow, which we talk so much about this on a shame,

is that we have to adhere to the kingdom of God to rise above even our own citizenship in our country that makes us better citizens because of that. But that's, man, that's hard to do, especially when there's... It's the Ten Commandments. You know, I feel like I would even argue that so much of the Founding Fathers,

a lot of... Yeah, I mean, their philosophies and their thought process come from God's original law to his people. Don't covet. There'd be no other gods above me. People, you know, treat people with dignity and all these things. So, yeah, I think a lot of the American values, you know, for us also fall in line with the Ten Commandments

and how to treat people and, you know, love God. Or even the golden around. Yeah, I think, too, though, I think the problem, is you can't, a lot of this, you can't muster up that type of virtue that these guys had. You can't just say, okay, I'm going to choose that kind of virtue now. If you look at the America that we have today versus the, at least the colonial America, why were they, like, where did this kind of passion come from? I mean, ultimately, where did this kind of passion come from in terms of like, I'm willing

to lose my life to fight for this kind of freedom? I think it came from two things. One, it came from the spiritual renewal that they had experienced, right? So there was a spiritual renewal happening on the positive side. And on the negative side, they didn't want to lose what they had worked so hard for. Like they had worked hard. They had put blood, sweat, tears. I mean, they had worked the land.

I mean, these guys came over. You know, we've gone through the course now. I mean, when they came over here, this was, I mean, there was no, there was, I mean, it was tough. Think about the pilgrims. So how many people died there in that first, you know, landing at Plymouth Rock, and it was like, that was like brutal. So you import all of that history, that recent history into what they have now, and they had ownership.

The problem what we have today is nobody or a lot of the country doesn't have any skin in the game. And so a lot of people don't have, they don't own things. We've shifted to kind of a nanny state. And when you become really dependent on the government for all the things that you have, then the downside of that. is that, yeah, why would you, there's no, I mean, yeah, I'll trade my freedom for security. They weren't going to do that because they were self-made.

And so I think that's probably the biggest thing is you can't just turn a switch and turn off like entitlement. And I can't, sometimes I feel entitled in my life. I mean, I have that deal. Being honest with you, but I can't just turn that off. It's the cultivation of the earth. It's me living out Genesis 128. when I'm actually cultivating the earth, when I'm having kids,

when I'm expanding, making families, I got a house. The more skin I have in the game, then the more like passion that I have to make sure that my family's protected, my property's protected, that we can continue to have this type of liberty. So I think it's not muster up the virtue.

It's focus on the cultivation of the earth, focus on multiplying and having dominion. If you do that, then these other things will come with that. They naturally or supernaturally come with that. That was really articulate, Zach. Very good. Sound up to take the course with us for free at unashamed for Hillsdale.com. That was not, sorry, that was not a sarcastic comment.

That was actually really articulate. No, it is good. You said everything I was thinking, sorry, yeah. You said everything I was thinking, but in a very clear, concise, smart, intellectual way. Yeah, that's what he does. I look at, I look at like, I told Max this recently, who, you know, recently got married. You know, I was like, I like, I didn't, I didn't tell my kids to get married young. I never said that.

I never even, we never really talked about that. But when they, they've made these decisions early on to get skin in the game. And like, I'm like, I like, I like, that, to me, that's what we need more men. And you guys both did too. Like, no, we're going to create families early. We're going to create our own, you know, a dynamic early. We're going to create our own businesses early.

You guys were cult of it. You guys were doing Genesis 128 earlier than a lot of people. And to me, that's, man, that's the hope for the country. That's the hope for the world, is that we take our mandate, our cultural mandate, that we take it very serious and that we understand our vocation. Yeah, because when you look at the competing, or not theologies, but, you know, ideas, political doctrines out here now, you're talking about a move. A lot of people want to move towards socialism and even some to communism, which are to me pretty failed ideas anyway, but

it is 180 degrees away from what we're talking about in this course. The idea that we have this, as Sam Adams put this natural law, and then even he included British law and biblical law. in the idea that we weren't made to give control of our lives to someone else, you know, other than God himself. So, yeah, I just, it's amazing to me. And that's why I was thinking, Luke, your question was so poignant, because it is the ultimate thing. When you look at your countrymen, you know,

the people that have the same history in front of them that we do and want to give it all back and go. And it's so funny, there are a lot of these people are doing a no-king's rally, but you talk about wanting a king. You want the government to be your king. You want a king. You're saying no kings, but your actions are saying, we want to be taken care of. All these things that are said to be a right, you know, whether there's health care or whatever, how do you pay for that?

And it's just, it's a crazy mindset. But that's one of the reasons why I'm grateful for Hillsdale, you know, being able to show flaws, but also show the biblical narrative that runs through this entire thing we're talking about, which is powerful. Yeah. I've just learned so much from these courses. I really have. really glad we did this one. Well, it lays right into the 250th year anniversary of the founding of America. And I think that the, I think they've done a very fair job at explaining that this is a,

I mean, the whole path is, I mean, there's lots of sins in it. There's lots of righteous acts in it. There's, I mean, it's a story. And like all stories, nothing is, you know, nothing is pure. Nothing is 100% right. I think what you're seeing, though is the is again I use that word evolution a lot just because it does feel like an evolution it's an ebb and a flow it's a like you know it's a it's a it's being pressure tested throughout time and you'll actually see that the things that are happening now I for example like it's no it's no secret that we have a the sin of slavery of the shadow slavery system in the US that is a that is a stain on American history right and you see like ironically in

this moment that we've been talking about today coming out of the French Indian War that the colonial Americans believed that they were being treated like slaves. And now they're going to own slaves, which is, I'm like, do you see the hypocrisy there? But that's not the point. The point is, is that what's being developed right now in their own identity is the very ideas that will then liberate slaves one day when we have the Emancipation Proclamation and furthermore, which will also be the

key catalyst for the civil rights movement. It's all coming down to this argument that's being developed. But it's not an argument that's like just sitting there yet. I mean, it's having to be developed by guys like John Locke, across the pond, and Samuel Rutherford

and Scotland. And then, you know, then you have the Thomas Jeffersons will emerge, the George Washington, the Samuel Adams, who has mentioned the Benjamin Franklin's. Everybody is contributing to this and it's coming out of responses to real threats that are coming against human dignity.

We take this for granted, though, because we've grown up outside of a world view. We don't even have a context for monarchy. I don't, I, like, when you think about the king or queen, I think about the queen of England. But they're figureheads. They're not like real, there's no real authority there.

We don't have, we don't have the worldview to imagine ourselves under that type of rule. But this is the, so this is, we're living in the thing that emerged out of all of these years of this evolution into 1776. Yeah, and when you look around the world, Zach, and you see dictatorial control, and it's still there all around the world. You usually see people that are not thriving at all. It's a terrible situation. Dad used to be a huge, you know, defender of the founders. And when he first started, like, really, when he was in the heyday of his speaking, he would have a segment.

And he had gotten somebody to print it from computer land for him, you know, and he had these old pages. And he had read them so often. They were just fraying on the sides of all these quotes from the founders. And so he had a whole segment in there. And it was so great. I love listening to it. I mean, I could just almost just hear it.

him doing it. And he always did it with such conviction like he was one of the, you know, guys from that era doing it. And his deal was, you know, hey, they made mistakes. Of course they did. We all make mistakes. He said, but they found it a country, you know, and he would get into this whole thing back and forth. And of course, people love hearing that because it's like your own family, like dad. You know, did he have loss? Sure. Did he make mistakes? Absolutely. But was he a great man that should be honored and remembered and talked about and the best things he put forward. Yes, all of our family should be. And that's the idea of our founders in our country.

And so this thing about just trash and consistently, you know, how we got here, you know, mistakes that were made, also things that were always repairing and working on. But you get the idea now, you hear people talk, that they hate America, that they don't, I mean, they're Americans. They're us. but they act like they hate it here. And they don't like any of them. Well,

because you take the thing that we failed at or the things that we failed at. And the whole thing is horrible. It's such a horrible way to review history. And I'll tell you what it does is you actually miss out on the most beautiful part of the story when you do that.

When we had the founder of Hobby Lobby on our podcast recently and I got to spend some time with David Green. And anytime you get to spend time, and John Lake, you had lunch with us. I think he said this while you were in there. I think he did, but we had just an incredible conversation. This is in his book, too, by the way. He had talked about when he was 44 years old, I think he's 44, 45.

Hobby Lobby, he thought he said, we were in real serious financial trouble. I think we might go bankrupt. And he got under his, I said he got under his desk and just cried out to the Lord and prayed to God. And I don't know about y'all, but I'm 48. So when I hear about someone who they tell their story of success, and it's like they did this awesome thing, like, that's cool. But what really inspires me is when I hear about someone who hit a wall. And they're like, we hit a wall and we had a moment,

and the whole thing was about to collapse. And then I did whatever, A, B, and C, and then this happened. like that inspires me because I'm hitting walls in my life sometimes yeah sometimes but nobody just just ascends to the top I mean it's that's that's not how things work like you go through trials and then in our country you know I think there's been trials and it's been difficult but man it's pretty awesome like you think about the human liberty that has emerged out of what was happening here in the colonies like in this like these guys came over on a boat called the pilgrims and the Puritans and they set up shop here and then from that all the liberty and how

much the world has changed since then and a lot of ways for the better I think a lot of ways for the better I mean we have cures for diseases now we have open heart surgery we have hospitals children's hospital systems we've got education we've got I mean we've got I mean modern technology we've got indoor plumbing we've got I mean the world's a better place yeah I mean, it's a better place than it was that, you know, 250 years ago. And as a people, I think we've been a benevolent people to the rest of the world in a lot of different ways. And a protector, in a sense, of liberty around the world. So I'm proud of all that.

I'm proud to be an American. We can sing this on, right? But we're out of time. We want you to sign up and take the course with us for free, unashamed for Hillsdale.com. This is the last podcast on this particular subject. next time we're going to get back into and finish up our stuff on the early church, which was amazing during the Roman era. So we'll get back to that, and we want you to do it with us.

So we'll see you next time on Unashamed with Hillsdale. Join us every Friday for Unashamed Academy Powered by Hillsdale College. Make sure to go to Unashamed for Hillsdale.com and sign up. It's no cost to you. That's Unashamed for Hillsdale.com. And don't miss an episode of the Unashamed podcast by subscribing on YouTube. to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.