Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1351 | Jase Helps Zach’s Son Find the Courage to Speak Boldly about Jesus

Episode Date: June 9, 2026

Zach returns from Italy with a sobering reminder from Rome’s ruins that every earthly kingdom eventually falls, but the kingdom of God keeps moving forward. Jase, Al, and Zach dig into how trials expose what comfort hides, and what it means to have a double-minded soul. Jase helps Zach’s son, Bear, through a panicky faith moment, and it ends up being an awesome reminder of the courage young Christians need in today’s world.  In this episode: James 1, verses 1–8; James 2; Acts 15; Galatians 2; Hebrews 12; Matthew 5, verses 21–22; Matthew 23, verse 17; Ephesians 2, verses 8–10; Genesis 2, verse 15; Hebrews 5, verse 14 “Unashamed” Episode 1351 is sponsored by: https://zocdoc.com/UNASHAMED — Check out Zocdoc and stop putting off those doctors appointments. Go to ZocDoc to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today. https://ponchooutdoors.com/unashamed — Get $10 off your first order and free shipping! https://www.quo.com/unashamed— Get 20% OFF your first six months http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/ — Sign up now for free, and join the Unashamed hosts every Friday for Unashamed Academy Powered by Hillsdale College Listen to Not Yet Now with Zach Dasher on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or anywhere you get podcasts. Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! https://open.spotify.com/show/3LY8eJ4ZBZHmsImGoDNK2l Chapters 00:00 Jase & Al Admit They Need Zach 07:05 The Faith-and-Works Debate 13:45 Faith, Family & Freedom 2026 19:33 Little Man’s Deep Thoughts  25:10 Zach’s Italy Trip  32:05 Why James and Paul Weren’t at Odds 38:11 The Wisdom Behind the Law 42:24 Double-Minded Faith 47:33 Work Was Never the Curse 51:15 The Difficulties of Counting Trials as Joy — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This spring, denim gets a softer, lighter update. Introducing Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg, a new fit that moves with you. It's everything you want denim to feel like for summer. Easy, breathable, and effortlessly cool. With a fit that creates natural movement and a wide leg that feels modern, not overwhelming. Plus, that signature, wait, for this price, moment. Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg. I am unashamed.

What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed, or is the, what was the old bit that was on he-ha, gloom, despair, and agony on me? Well, where? Is that it? That's it. That's it. Why did you leave me here all along? That's it. I remember that.

I'm taking it back now. You have to have more passion with that out. I searched the world. It was just the poor blues. That's what I felt like today. Jason, I have come in. We've done nothing but complain since we got here this morning. Maddie's tried to be a bright light.

We have a friend here, John, from San Angelo, Texas, watching today. Zach, you're back, though. And for that, Jason and I are eternally grateful. We did four podcasts without you, and we felt like it was a struggle. That was great. Go ahead. I'm not going to interrupt you one time today because we need you, Zach. Well, I get on, and you're like just talking about how rough it was

without me. I mean, it was a lot of complaining, but I heard it as, Zach, I love you. And that's why I responded with, Jace, I love you too. Well, we're habitual creatures. And what I learned is that when you're a leg down,

you have a three-legged stool, you have a two-legged. But the two, you're asking more from the two when you don't have three legs. And the problem is that you, nor Zach are very good at listening to other people. You're thinking about what you're about to present. So in a two-legged stool situation,

you're just hearing Charlie Brown's teacher over here, but then all of a sudden, you're on, and you didn't know what I said. Well, because there are degrees of listening. Now look, there's a, Zach, you don't even know what we've been doing. Let me explain this to you. So y'all recorded while I was gone. I actually didn't know that.

We did. We recorded for it. What did you think? The world doesn't stop when you stop. I thought we got ahead. We have people who are lined up saying, give us something that we can get through the day. Yeah. And so.

We have companies that depend on us to get their ads out there, Zach. Come on. That's true. Fascinatingly enough. That's one of the biggest words I've used in a month. That was a lot of syllables for you, Jay. Some of my buddies, when they heard we were doing James, they're like sending me to. And I'll give you some of their notes off my memory.

Ooh, I can't wait to hear Zach on James 2. And I was like, ooh, let me go read James 2. What are we doing there? Because I do, I did say while you were absent, a lot of scholars and pastures and teachers, they avoid James. Oh, yeah, they don't like it. And the book is viewed as kind of controversial because they're like, they read Paul's writings or Jesus's things, and they're like, oh, it's, look, grace, believe in Jesus,

have faith, you're good. And then they read James, and they're like, what happened all? What does this work you speak? How does that factor in? So it becomes kind of a place for people to discuss, argue. And so that's what he meant by the James. Which we didn't talk about this, James, and we were setting it up. up, but it also shows you the very important tool of harmonetics, which is a big word, but simply

means... I think it's hermeneutics. Hermonetics is a hairstyle. That's true. Well, I... Sorry. No, it's not. I just made that up.

I combined homiletics and hermeneutics. You're right. So, hermeneutic is understanding the context of who these letters were written to, it does matter. The audience matters. Yeah. In the tone of the scripture, and we did talk about when this book was written in the why of it, but that is very important in this context to a Jewish audience. It's the reason why Hebrews stands alone so much, and that's another one.

But it's, it was certainly written to the Jewish audience to understand why this stuff happened like it did. Which led me to the sermon on the mount because I thought. What did I say? Hermonetics. Hermonetics. Yeah. That's funny. So next time you get a haircut, you'll say.

You think about my hermetic. That's funny. But what people do even in debate is they read James I in first verse. He wrote it to the 12 tribes scattered among the nations, which is a moment after Stephen was stoned. The tribes got scattered because of fear of persecution, which feels right when you, because he's starts off in James saying, now look, there's going to be some trials. It's rough. Yeah, yeah.

And these are happening so your faith may be refined, that type of mindset. So then the argument in the religious world is, well, that's kind of the equivalent. Him saying to the 12 tribes of Israel is the equivalent of saying, well, we're now the new Zion, the heavenly Jerusalem. So people tend to make things what they want it to be, to like prove their arguments, because it very well may be. It could be. Some of the respected scholars that I've read, they say, well, now that Jesus is here, there's no Jew or Gentile. This is where this is coming from. But I just think, just the simplest, we said this, the simplest explanation is usually the best one.

And you put it in the correct time frame. James is an early church leader. He's right in here in the book of Acts, right. there where this happened, and I know that's what he had in mind, would that include a broader look at Hebrews 12? Exactly. Sure. Does the sermon on the Mount, which was primarily Jews?

Right. Or exclusively Jews at that point. Does that not apply to us in some way? I would think so. That's why I'm good. Go ahead, Zach. What say you? Well, two things.

One, there's a term called Occam's Razor, which is essentially. Zach, I don't do razors. But go ahead. Occam's razor. You know, I've tried Harry's. I've tried Gillette. Let's just explain that because you've done it. You've been gone to foreign country for a week with your lovely wife.

I was in Italy. I was in Italy. I was in Italy. I stayed in a thousand-year-old castle. Okay, first of all. Second of all, I toured ancient. I mean, we went to all the cathedrals. I mean, it was a, it was very enjoyable.

Did it ever cross your mind that God doesn't live in buildings? No, go ahead. Go ahead, Zach. Tell us what Acky-Razers. It did cross my mind. That verse did cross my mind. We could talk about that later because I saw some pretty incredible buildings. Occam's Razor is when you're kind of analyzing a problem and you have a very complex solution over here.

And then you have a very simple one over here that you choose the one that's the, that's the most simple explanation that's most of the time that's the answer. See, I didn't even know there was a term for what I said. I thought I just made that up. It sounds like you agree with me because you tend to be more complex and I tend to be more simple. Who? Well, me and you. You tend to be more complex. You just said a word I've never heard. I use language to like I use complex, maybe bigger terms that that basically put a lot of information in one term so that you can have a like shorthand conversation. But I was going to say that on the book of James,

and I think the book of Hebrews, Martin Luther disputed the apostolic authority of James for the reason that you're talking about. So you think about kind of the Reformation Movement, which were all, if anyone ever asked me if I'm reformed, I'm like, well, I'm not Catholic, so yes, I'm reformed. I would have to be. So it depends on what you mean by that.

But if you think about that Martin Luther nailed the 95 Theses to the wall of the church at Wittenberg, because the Catholic Church was, they were selling indulgences and all the things you could buy people out of hell. There was some corruption that Luther was identifying. And he's like, no, you can't buy your way. You cannot buy your way into heaven or out of hell. This isn't something you purchase with your money. It was purchased by the blood of Jesus.

So you can see that kind of spawn, this grace alone kind of spawn the Reformation movement. And so when this keeps getting pushed out, then you get to a book like James. and you're like, wait a second, if it's grace alone, and what about all these works? You know, faith without works is dead. You say faith alone, grace alone, scripture alone, but what about the works? And so I think it messed up his theology a little bit, and so he questioned the authority that he even had apostolic authority,

is what Luther was getting at. And I think he even also questioned whether or not Hebrews should be included in the canon as well. Oh, boy. But I think... I would have had to argue with that. I'd argue with both of them. Well, yeah. But I mean, especially Hebrews.

I don't think you can understand. This is like... Hebrews is one of the greatest unlocking, unlocking mechanisms in the New Testament. To me, explains the whole reason why you have a heaven and an earth and why Jesus became a part of the earth to go to heaven to make the presence of God the Father available and the spirit. I mean, it just, to me, I'm like, you know, you keep reaching in your closet and you're trying to find that perfect shirt to wear. It's what I love poncho, because it really does fit all occasions, whether you're going fishing, whether you're going out to dinner with your wife. They're very versatile shirts. We all have ours on right now. You guys look great. I do my own laundry.

I just have a big pile. And look, you can't, this, the shirt is so good. And that must have to be on top, because it looks really nice. It came out. It came off the top. Pancho is a men's outdoor performance shirt that doesn't look like one. That's the catch. You can wear it to fish. You can wear it to hunt, grab dinner afterwards, and you still look put together. They really did nail the fit. The poncho shirts are lightweight, breathable.

They dry fast, and they have a built-in UPF 50 plus. Some styles come with a smart little details too, like a hidden zipper pocket, sunglasses holder or even a built-in lens cloth, which comes in handy for me because I do wear glasses most of the time. So Father's Day is right around the corner. and poncho is the perfect gift for a dad who doesn't need anything but definitely he does need this once you try it trust me don't be surprised if you're back ordering more every once in a while i'll go out to civilization and play golf and this is the perfect shirt for that the good golf shirt yes father's day's almost here go to poncho outdoors dot com slash shunashamed and enter your email you get

ten bucks off and free shipping on your first order that's p-on-c-h-o outdoors dot com slash unashamed head there drop your email and get $10 off and free shipping and once you try one you'll get why i have a closet full of them it's essential if you're going to read christ in the old testament then just read the book of hebrews i mean it's like it's the most beautiful well-written argument and i mean it's incredible i mean it's a sermon i think but uh but it's it's incredible to to read it in its entirety and understand what the hebrew writer's saying anyways i think that um for me that The book of James was the book that rounded out my understanding of how faith and works and grace. How does all of that work together?

These are not, they're not in opposition with one another. You know, one theologian said, how do you reconcile? I think he said grace and works, or maybe it was faith and works. How do you reconcile the two? And he said, well, you don't reconcile good friends. And I like that, you know, that makes sense to me. So I think that what James gives us is a proper understanding of what faith actually is. And then he goes back to the father of our faith.

And so then there's a lot of Genesis that will play out in here. Like when we get to chapter 2, there's a lot there that I love. I mean, James 2 is one of my favorite chapters in the Bible. Which is why some of our audience is so anticipating your response. Well, and then to me, that was a long way to get back. One of my buddies said, oh, and I can't wait to you deal with that verse. Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry. Which I have the slow to become angry.

I am slow to become angry. But the other two, okay, it's a process. Be quick to listen. That's very observant. Whoever said that, who's listening? I appreciate that. I had dinner that night with some folks in there, like, how do y'all do, how do you do four podcasts a week?

I said, it's actually five. How do y'all do that? Like, I mean, like, where do y'all come with the content? You know what the answer is? Wearily. You should have said, we do it because we're slow to speak, we're quick to listen, and we're slow to become angry. Yeah, that hadn't weren't so great in a podcast.

Speaking of slow to become angry, I have to announce this. This is exciting. We've been doing this for three or four years out of a row. At least four. My lovely wife gave me this shirt because it has the American flag. It's kind of a Fourth of July vibe. Are those baits? No, yeah, yeah, because this is a honeyhole shirt.

Okay, yeah. But it's in the shape of the American flag. Yeah. So she was like. I was trying to figure out what the object was. Bates. American flag baits. So I'm inviting all the listeners to, or in my wife and I.

to our little place out in the middle of nowhere. For faith, family, and freedom, this is the 2006 edition. And this is kind of a big one here. 250 years. That's a big one. But when we are doing it on Sunday, June 28th. So if you show up on the 4th,

turn around and you miss this. So that's a Sunday, June 28th. Gates open it for food trucks, snow cones, live music. There'll be a lot of vendors that Missy and I have partnered with over the years. We'll have my daughter's charity there. And they'll actually be selling these hats. So she gave me this hat to wear. Some gospel symbol stuff.

You're always looking for that. We are. And it will benefit me and me on top of everything else. Exactly. It's a win-win. I had an epiphany about the sign language on this hat. So if you're listening, it has the cross coming down. I mean, the arrow coming down, the cross, the tomb, the arrow coming up, and the arrow coming down.

I had an epiphany yesterday during Mike Kellett sermon. Sorry, Mike, I wasn't listening because this hit me like a bolt of lightning. You see why podcasting is difficult, people, you just heard it right there. I started writing. I wrote a whole sermon that I, next time you all. It's the sermon within the sermon. But it came from this, me thinking about that. And then, look, we will also have the backyard Jesus class, which has become a popular thing.

So every 30 minutes, I think you've participated in that before. I did. Last year was my first year, and I loved the event. I was going to say that just as a first timer because the first two times you guys did it, I was on the road, and I will be back this year. I am preaching that morning at WIFR just to let you know because a lot of you in time. I wasn't going to bring that up. I didn't know.

I mean, we may not have enough room to hold people. Oh, I say pile in. Come early. Come early. I'll be preaching that morning. But we have six guys lined up for every 30 minutes. So you have Paul Stevens, who was my dad's actually the first person that. Dad led to Christ.

Yeah, I guess that he responded. My dad was sharing with people all over the place. He was, yeah, Georgie, Joe, Rucker. Rucker. We have Mrs. Dad. Oh, we have Godwin. Oh, Johnny Godwin.

That's awesome. Hey, it's the new Johnny Godman. Have you seen him lately? The man's a rail. I've seen what... PhD, baby. I've seen what's left out of it. And then I'll do the last one.

Jay's is the bullpen closer. We'll have a baptismal tub on site. That was quite popular. And that thing was rocking last year. I don't know if people were just trying to cool off or submitting to the Lord, but it was good all the way around. So I have a prayer team available also. And how much does it cost, Chase?

That's the last line. of this blurb is it's free. For free. It is free. Let me make sure I got everything else. We'll have, well, I won't get into the details, but we'll, we have singing, we'll have worship, we have fireworks, and we'll have a lot of kids. They're doing some kind of presentation.

Yeah, when you get there, you can sign them up to be a part of it. That's going to be awesome. So here's the most important part. So, because we want you to sign up so we can prepare for having. many people are going to be there. So if you want to sign up, go to, and Maddie, maybe you can put this on the screen. www.w.w.logtownestate, that's one word, dot com. So www.logtownestate.com. So www. logtownestate.com. And R.SvP, so we can prepare. It's free. See you there.

And let me just say, Jace, on behalf of our audience, that we appreciate you and Missy doing this, because one is, you know, there's money involved for you guys to do it every year. The fireworks shows spectacular. And so, you know, it's not a lot of people are willing to just do something for the good of other people. So thank you for that. If thousands of people have come, hundreds of people have been led to Christ, have been baptized. So it's a great day. There is one prerequisite to coming because you got to remember something.

In Louisiana, if you schedule an outdoor event, in the summer, the one prerequisite is you must bring a good attitude because it's going to be way too hot and it's going to be way too crowded. Crowded. And there are going to be bugs around. Bugs and potential rain. I mean, it's summertime. Who knows what's going to happen?

So you've got to bring a good attitude because if you show up and say, oh, I didn't know it's going to be so hot, it's going to be hotter than anything you've ever experienced if you're from a northern state. Yeah. Bring your chairs with you and. Do what we do. Let that be a reminder that you want to stay away from hell. Because it is hot.

It will be hot. It will be hot. You will sweat. I've had a little man for three days, so I'm sleep deprived. I actually feel like we're going up on the mountain and Jesus was going to pray and he's like, now stay awake. Well, Jay's line was to Maddie's,

we need to get this thing rolling because I'm getting sleepy. And I said, we're about to start. So part of the reason Jay's and I were complaining this morning is because we're two older men now. Let's just admit it, Jay's. We're old men. And so Jay's says little man this weekend. I had three teenage girls that I was faring back from Gulf Shores. Lisa stayed to sell real estate.

And so then I get up this morning and my whole routine's wrecked. And it's just, you know, so we're old, we're, there's no country for old men. I take the morning chef. And look, little man this morning was so profiling. It was crazy. He was like, because I, he gets up, I get up, I mean, we're talking about before the, for it's light outside. And so I have about an hour and 15 minutes.

We do the routine, fixed breakfast, and we get in the golf, golf cart. But this morning when we went out, it was so wet because it rained a lot down here. And he was asking me all these profound thoughts. He was like, he said, Jay Rock is what he calls me, Jay Rock. He said, I'm not sure I want to grow up and get big. And I said, well, why not? And he's like, because I'll miss you. Well, that hit me like a ton of bricks.

I was like, what are you saying? I didn't say this, but I was thinking, you've concluded that when you get big, I will no longer be on the planet. That's pretty handy for a four-year-old, I'll have a day. And you're saying, right now. And yesterday I taught him some work ethic because he's like, is there any jobs I can do for money?

And I was like, well, why do you want money? And he's like, because I want to go buy some junk. And I thought, why would you want to buy junk? And he's like, well, that's what y'all do. And then I realized this little stuff that we buy, and then it lasts about an hour. Yeah. We're like, that thing's a piece of junk.

So he's concluded the whole capitalism system is adults. making money so that they can go buy junk. Anyway, I gave my job yesterday. He made five bucks. And look, you would have thought, because he's thinking, I have something in my hands that's worth more than me

because I'm four, and this is five. And so it's great. Oh, he sweated. He worked over $5. He was asking me, who's this guy? A pitcher on the bill. I was like, well, he's the president, Abraham Lincoln.

He was like, okay, me and him. We don't get to know each other. That was hilarious. So, Jace, you know, someone has said that life is like a big puzzle. Do you like puzzles? I am doing puzzles almost on a daily basis. Life is tricky. There's work.

There's relationship. There's finances. There's all kind of things. And so what we hope to do is when we need a doctor, we need to be able to find one. And Zoc Doc, one of our sponsors, makes it easy to find and book an appointment with a doctor that you'll love. Zococococ is a free app. and website that helps you find a book high quality in-network doctors so you can find someone that you love. ZotDOT makes it really easy to book in-network appointments with doctors all over

the country like over 150,000 providers in all 50 states. So it could be a dermatologist, a dentist, eye doctor, primary care. You can search by what you need and find the right fit. You can go in person or you can do a video visit, totally up to you. And we also love that you can read real patient reviews so you actually know what you're getting into before you book. Most appointments happen within 24 to 72 hours, sometimes even the same day. So next time I needed a doctor, Zott, Doc, is where I'm headed. Stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zott.com slash Unashamed to find and instantly book a doctor that you love today.

That's Z-O-C-D-O-C.com slash Unashamed. Zock.com slash Unashamed. Thanks Zoc Doc for sponsoring this message. It is funny with kids in their view of money because my 11-year-old granddaughter, she asked Anna, my daughter, she said, do Mamma and Papp have a million dollars? And Anna says, I don't know. You'll have to ask them. She said, why are you asking?

She said, well, I need a new Lego set. Does it cost a million dollars for a Lego set? I know. But I love these kids in my life because of that. Because like this board, I was like, everything you want to do, we couldn't do because it was too wet. And he's like, well, I think we need to go fishing. But the last two, three times we tried, we hadn't caught anything. And then I had to deal with, you know, overcoming that.

It's like, it's why it's called fishing. But he was like, I think it's time today. I think we'll catch one. Go back, rig up my ride. I only have a few minutes. And go there first cast and I catch a month. I mean, I was going to let him real length too big. I mean, it's, so we caught him, took picture.

I mean, it was, but I thought in this kid's mind, I mean, this was a moment. It was about half as big as he is, and we landed the beast. And, uh, that's why I said I'm, I mean, I feel like I've already lived a day. And we showed up. So, Zach, I want the audience to hear, and I want to hear, what was the best thing about your trip? You mentioned standing in the castle. It was 25 years of celebration. We did a podcast, Lisa and I and you and Jill, the day before you guys left.

And y'all were exhausted. You just did a big wedding and everything. We're all working hard. So what was the best? Was it just being with her and being in Italy? Or what was the best part of it? Oh, yeah. It was great, man.

Food was great. What else was great? You know, it was a nice rest. We hadn't rested a long time, but we got to tour a lot of history in Italy. which is, I mean, we've gone before, Al. Yeah. I love it. So we went to a lot of the same places we went.

But we were only in Rome for about two days. But it was seeing some of the origins of even the Christian faith. A lot of, you know, a lot of that origin of our heritage, you know, was right there in the heart of the Roman Empire. And so to me it was also just, it's sobering when you go into, when you imagine the power of the Roman Empire. in its heyday, and you think about how big and powerful that a dominant power they were, and then you're there 2,000 years later, and you look at it now, and it's still beautiful,

and the ruins are great, but it is sobering to think, you know, the kingdoms rise up and kingdoms fall. Yeah. I just kept thinking about that passage in Hebrews about the kingdom we belong to that was started during that time period. that we read about in the scriptures. And that kingdom, look at the kingdom of God, how it is just taken over the world, really, since Jesus arrived. And it's just such a different kind of kingdom.

It was sobering, it was on one end, and it was ridiculously encouraging on the other. You know what I mean? Because you're like, don't put your hope in these earthly kingdoms, but you're hoping the one that will sustain. That's good. That's right. We had a good time.

Kind of the same observation. A little man had about just a lot. life, right? It's the civilizations in the same way. Well, I got to say this too, though. When you're gone, though, the kids, you know, they still will text you and call you and all that stuff. So that, you know, we're trying to like, don't mess with us while we're here. Well, thank you, Zach, because I was going to say, and that kind of goes along with, you know, creating this memory with little man, because I took you and one of your sons duck hunting.

and to say that that experience left a lasting impression on your said son would be an understatement. Of course, you know, you get out in duck blind, that's the perfect place to talk about Jesus, especially when you got young people involved in the teenage years. So since you were gone and you told him,

don't bother me, he was wearing me out. Did you know that? He said, we had to speak. He got asked to speak. He got asked to speak. He's asking a question. He's not speaking. Hey, you think it'd be all right if I get Jason's number?

And I was like, absolutely. So I said, and you just do not. I said, be relentless. I said, do not let. I didn't tell him that part. But he, I got back and he. You don't have to tell Bear Dashir to be relentless. No, he said he's got that on his eye.

Yeah, he got the, Jace walked him through kind of his sermon that he gave with all the students at his school. Yeah, he did. He was going to speak, and he's like, I could sense the panic in the text. It's like, because I didn't have my fault. I mean, that was you. Oh, yeah. I remember being that age. I mean, it's very difficult.

You know, you're like, gulp. I'm going to get up. Because I think the biggest problem teenagers have is confidence, you know, in the Lord, but just in any arena. You still remember the first time you ever spoke? I remember the shakes. I know that. Was that at school? I was ripping pages out of my Bible,

which then they're probably thinking, isn't that sacrilegious? That's what's shaking about. My first speech was I was the president of our class at Pinecrest, which was also Mr. Pinecrest. We talked about that on the Brothers podcast, but I had to give a speech at the last parent. night.

Yeah. Because I was the president of the class. But, I mean, I was. And that sounds awesome, but that was, he was president of like 14 people out of the class. The class was 14 people. The audience was 50. But I was petrified. I mean, like, like you said, I mean, it's very, very funny.

But it's a great learning moment. But now, I love that. When I see young people excited for the Lord, that really excites me. Yeah. So, and it went from panic to. Oh, yeah. And you could, it got confident, and then he was excited. So, and then the next day.

And he said you even followed up with him. So how'd it go? Well, yeah, because he said, I'll let you know how it goes. Well, then 24 hours later, it hit me. And I looked it up, my thought, well, that's a Zach move. That's over. So we've moved on. And I said, well.

Yeah. But then he responded, yeah, he was excited about it. Because if you don't hear back, your fear is that maybe it didn't go so well. Exactly. Well, we're glad you're back, Zach. Welcome back to Unashame. Good to be back. So how do we want to tell Zach what we've done?

Because we were like, it's like we pulled over into a field and just spun our wheels. Well, we were saying, we did the background, Zach, of the book before you. We didn't want to get into the text until you were here. We kind of got into the first couple of verses. which are the setups, who James was. We loved his humble attitude because we're assuming that he was the brother of Jesus, which some people would say that'd be the lead,

but if you're a humble guy, you'd just say, no, I'm just a servant like everybody else. So we talked about that. We talked about his role in the early church, if indeed this is that James, which we believe it is, in Acts 15, because he was a calming influence on some choppy waters of the Gentiles and the Jews coming together for the first time over Cornelius, you know, being led to Christ by Peter.

And then also, you know, Paul spoke highly. And by the way, by the way, earlier we were talking about kind of the schism from some people's mind. You mentioned Martin Luther about Paul's writings and James's writings, which I've always kind of chuckled at that because James and Paul, contemporaries and in scripture had conversations with one another. So to somehow think they weren't on the same page for Christ to me is a little bit nuts. You know, I mean, they knew each other and worked together. So, I mean, he was one of the main elders at the church in Jerusalem. And Paul came and went a lot. And he spoke very highly of James in Galatians and even not so highly of

Peter and some of his actions. So to somehow think there was a schism between these two men and their approach to the gospel was, it makes no sense to me, just from the scriptures. So we talked about that. What else, Chase? We talked about, we talked about this idea of the diaspora, which was the 12 tribes scattered, and we kind of went back into that again a minute ago, what that means. And literally, it just meant they were scattered because God told them to go, but they were staying. So guess what happens?

Persecution tends to push you out the door. Well, I brought up, there's a few things in James that is found nowhere else. And it's why it led me to Matthew and the Sermon on the Mount. Yeah, we did a whole podcast on the Sermon on the Mount too, Zach. Because when you think about the book of James, you don't think, I don't even think the kingdom is ever mentioned, per se. I'd have to look that up. But there's some kingdom references because,

He calls the law the royal law, the loving your neighbor as yourself. And that phrase, that's not found anywhere else, calling it the royal law. And he actually uses the law in a couple of places that says the perfect law, that brings freedom. And you're like, I thought the law, how would that bring freedom? Yeah. Because we tend to think, well, if we're under law, we're not free. So some of the things, like the little things, Jace, in a business that people off the tape for granted are things like miscalls or delayed responses. They don't seem like a big deal, but actually end up being a big deal over time.

You know what's crazy? When we had Duck Commander, I answered the phone. Can you imagine? I mean, somebody call up and they're like, I'm like, hey, this is Jase. How can I help you? So you are the customer service representative at one point in your life. Yep. Then they moved me to a different position.

Well, it's a big deal. That's why today's episode is brought to you by our partner, Quo, spelled QUO, the business communication system built so that you never miss a call. Quo is the number one rated business phone system on G2 with 3,000 plus customer reviews and over 90,000 businesses are already using it to stay connected. Quo works wherever you are, phone, computer, and you can keep your numbers well. and add teammates fast and let call routing handle itself as you grow. Quo is more than just a phone system. It harnesses AI to log calls, summarize them, and flag the next steps so that nothing gets lost. Everything is in one place, calls, text, voicemails, so your team always has the full picture. Yeah, Zach, this would have been a big benefit when the show was going on because there were so many people trying to get through and they just couldn't get through.

Money is on the line. Always say hello with Quo. Try Quo for free. Plus get 20% off your first six months when you go to Quo.com. slash unashamed. That's QUO.com slash unashamed. We were talking about that even before we started. I was joking. I was like the law, even like the speed limit law, just think if you didn't have a speed limit or what would happen? Chaos. And a lot of deaths. Because you would go, you know, as fast as you could. Well, let's face it, even seatbelt laws, which we were all against when they first, came out because hey don't tell me i can buckle up when i want to i remember dad saying that you was like

you know you don't tell me when i can buckle up when i can't but i mean they do save lives it wasn't just dad i mean i was the same way i thought i should i should have the right if i don't want to wear a seatbelt yeah it's my life of course then when you know it years later here I am before the judge over a technicality on the seat. I remember that. But look, some of this is just infuriating. I mean, I had to tell my wife this yesterday, we're headed to go meet with the brothers.

And Zach, we went through a lot of the wisdom that is found in the sermon on the Mount because Jesus is really bending your mind on. what it means for him to be fulfilling the law. I mean, he's taken, you've heard it said, and then he'll say something. Everybody's like, well, yeah, and then he's like, and we went through specifically the one about,

when he said, you've heard it said, don't commit murder. And then he de-escalates, like, the crime into, but even if you call somebody a good for nothing, that rocka, which is what that means, that's just as bad. And you're like, well, wait a minute. that can't be just as bad.

But then he's like, but even if you insult someone and call them a fool or whatever, which he called people fools, we didn't talk about that part of it, later. In Matthew 23, he's like, you blind fools. So a lot of people, I've experienced that debate and had that question. To me, they're like, well, how come he said, don't call anyone a fool? Because then as he de-escalated the consequences of the crime, he goes, murder, then just viewing humans as less than humans, then just insulting them.

But at the same time, he escalates where that leads. He's like, you commit murder, you go to court. You devalue humans, you go to the Supreme Court. You insult them. We're talking Gahana fire. Yeah. And it's translated to hell. And you're like, what is this?

point because he's really wanting you to look in to the wisdom of your heart and mindset and how you apply these things, the process. And we talked about Zach that when someone commits murder, there was a process that happened for them to act on that. And James kind of echoes that when he gets into this process, like in verse 13 through 15, when he talks about, God doesn't tempt people, nor is he tempted by evil, but each one is tempted when by his own evil desire. So you start with this desire, or like in this case, using that sermon on the mal illustration,

once you devalue human beings, well, that leads down a road to where one day at some point you might even take their life. Yeah. And so he's asking for wisdom, in that because he's fulfilling all that he's he's looking at the heart and it takes discernment to even say that but i was going to give this illustration yesterday and this is i mean it made me really mad so i'm in line at the checkout center at the little convenience store and there's two

women in front of me and they're they have uh some kind of food stamp or whatever you know and it's like they're having an argument so i walked in i don't know the context what what what what what what what happening here. But there's a long line. And the checkout guy who doesn't really know this process, he's like, no, this is as much as you can get. So the more I'm listening, so finally he handed them a pack of cigarettes. But they wanted two.

But whatever funds they're giving from the government. And boy, I thought, I'm paying for this. Is this legal? And so I asked my wife, wrong question. She's like, that's against the law. But I said, well, just remember, we got to love people. They're made in the image of God. Evidently, babe, that has, in Louisiana, I guess you can go buy a pack of cigarettes with taxpayer-funded dollars, you know.

And she's like, oh, no, you can. I said, I just saw it happen. But it does. She's right. That didn't mean it was legal, but it did happen. But the reason I told you that story is because at some point, people said, if I want to smoke a cigarette, I can smoke a cigarette. You know, and they're like, oh, no, no, it'll hurt you.

But they still allow you to do that. But then you're asking a lot when you're asking other people with their tax dollars to pay for your cigarettes and delay me for eight minutes because they're asking. this process is so complex. I mean, which let's face it, in your mind, that was as big an issue

as the larger tax question was your way having to wait 10 minutes for them to argue about it. And I'm telling you, if I hadn't had just done all these studies on the sermon on the mat, I would have been so angry. I was angry.

You might have called them a rock. In your anger, do not sin. You know, I was getting that to that a fetus because it just infuriated me. I thought. It was the days you had the same reaction.

I was watching. the mayor of one of our major cities running on a platform of replacing the teeth of meth addicts with taxpayer money. And her reasoning was, I mean, how are people going to get ahead in life without teeth? Yeah. And so we got to do the teeth for them. And I'm sitting there looking at the teeth and I said, why don't you quit the math? Let's help them get off the meth.

That's a lot better than, because the new teeth go in and the math goes in. Guess what happens in the new teeth? There go. But I'm saying, so as far how to wrap your head around this as believers, and you read the sermon on the mount. And I think that's why he starts off saying about these trials. And then he's like, if any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God. And then he's constantly going back to the sermon on the mount from vows that you say to the royal law, loving your neighbor. that there's you'll see a lot of references as we go on where you see that and I think from his

Jewish perspective they're still wrapping their head around what Jesus meant yeah on what he's introducing as far as the new creation and I think subtly us being indwelled by the spirit having this discernment when it comes to right and wrong and so which kind of goes in with the Another one of the things we talked about that is something you only find the book of James. In fact, it's the only one in the Bible or even in Greek literature is this concept of double-minded. The Greek word there in 1-8, and it's also later in 4-8. And he's the first one to coin this phrase. Scholars don't find that anywhere else in Greek literature until the book of James came out.

this idea was it was it literally means double sold the idea here is that there's a conflict within your soul of a mindset which is kind of what you're talking about with what jesus was leading into something which may be when he called them hypocrites right and we talked about that a little bit we usually think of a hypocrite it's just somebody who is devoid of doing right things but i i don't think that was the way jesus was using it he they were doing it right things. They were just doing them for the wrong reason or, you know, some kind of self-exaltation. That's why when he got to the, in the sermon on the mount, when he got to when we pray,

when we fast and when we give, he was attacking that as far as your motive for doing that. Right. If you're just doing it so that everybody will look, it's kind of like you're taking some food for somebody who's in need, but then you schedule it where you know other people. are going to be there so that just your presence, the other people can say, oh, well, you must be holy. Yeah. He doesn't like that.

Yeah. You missed the point in there. Stop what you're doing because we've got a deadline coming up, Al. So it's June the 15th. That's the last day. So write it down June 15th. We're actually doing a contest with our Hillsdale Friday episode. And what we're going to do is we're going to pick one listener to come down to Westman Road to watch

a live recording of Unashamed. Al, you're in studio right now in Westman, I am waiting with anticipation for our lucky winners to be here. And he's got a chair already ready for you. What we're going to do is we're going to pay for travel and lodging for you and a guest up to $1,000 each. And this is all you have to do is take the ancient Christianity course with us at Hillsdale, finish all the quizzes, and then send us your certificate of completion. You can sign up for free at Unashamed for Hillsdale.com.

And then once you take the course and complete it, you upload your certificate at watchunashamed.com. So two websites there, and then you'll be entered in for the drawing. Monday, June 15th. It's the last day to enter. So you need to finish the course and upload your certificate by Monday. We can't wait to find out which one of you guys wins and get to meet you in person. You remember dad used to quote one of the proverbs that talked about showing hospitality, but then talking about it after someone leaves.

And I can't remember the proverb, but dad used to quote it a lot. And he would talk about that just in practicality, because he and mom always opened up their house. It was like, yeah, but the real thing is, did you just do it for the reason of the people or are you doing something for yourself? Exactly. You know, which is...

Well, the reason we're making such a big deal about it is because when we read the book of James, when we get to the difficult argumentative points, I feel like we've set the foundation where maybe you might say, maybe I missed the point of what he was writing then and there. And so maybe that,

I think we're arguing about just being saved and what that means like when Zach was talking about, is it faith, is it actions? Is it grace? Is it, what is it? When I think, in my opinion, the biggest missing message of the book of James, and he subtly says it that we're made in the image of God.

When you look in a mirror, what do you see? Why is he bringing these kind of analogies? It's because God has a purpose for us to do. And work is all over the New Testament. Think of Ephesians too when he says, it's for grace you've been saved. I mean, that's probably the biggest grace alone passage. and then four verses later he says, so what?

So that you can work. Your God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus. It's not only in the New Testament, it's in the Old Testament. I think that's the, I think that's the, a key to understanding James. And I said earlier we go back to Genesis. I mean, like what did God put Adam in the garden to do? To pre-fall. Pre-fall, he put him in the garden to work it and to keep it,

to protect it, to work it and protect it. So a part of being made in the image of God is that we have a vocation. We actually work. And so work was not the curse. Work was not the curse. The curse was that your work would produce thorns and thistles. And that's a very key distinction that you have to make when you're understanding, like, what does it mean to be human?

Yeah. Is that a curse? Work was a blessing. And so, again, so is it work? Is it faith? and you try to separate these things out. It's like, wait, what you're doing when you do that is you're actually testifying that you probably have a Gnostic view of the world, meaning that a Gnosticism is an ancient heresy

in scripture, that it's to view the physical world as evil, the body is bad, and then the spirit as good. And that's not the teaching in scripture. And we know this because Christ was resurrected in a body. So if Christ was resurrected and a body, what that means is that God has a very high view of the body or else, one, he would not have incarnated into one. And two, he certainly would have left Jesus dead in the grave and said, hey, but guess what, guys, your spirit and your ghost gets to go to heaven and be with me forever. That's not what happened. He resurrects the body.

And so the new creation is a physical world. The new heaven and earth, that's physical. That's tangible. You can put your hands on it and touch it and feel it. And so I think that that is what James is trying to recover here is that when you go through trials and things like that, like, yeah, it's going to seem at times like you're losing. It's going to seem like, oh, wow, the world's going to hell in a handbasket. Like, I said about the Roman Empire earlier. Like you look at the Roman Empire and its heyday, well, it's not like that anymore.

But the kingdom of God still moves on. And so he's teaching them kind of this idea about what the kingdom is. And you can go through lots of different kind of trials, lots of different things, because what we're building is something that will last. But we are involved in it, and there is work to be done. So let me read this first few verses just to set us up for the next podcast, because we're going to get into it. You mentioned trials, perseverance, wisdom.

These are words you see in this early part of the text. and he's going to deal with trials, then he's going to deal with temptation, because there's a different sort of response to both. But let me just read the first few verses and set us up. It says, consider, we've read the first two, James, the servant of God, Lord Jesus, to the 12 tribes scattered among the nations.

Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, which is a bumper sticker for you, Jay's. Well, that's going to be real hard to pull off. I mean, I remember the first time I read that, consider it pure joy whenever you I mean that's a that's a lead I think that's where people just said you know

I'm going to study this later maybe we don't need to do you know Donah is going to tell you why because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance or endurance is another definition of the Greek word endurance perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. If any of you lacks wisdom, and chapter 3 is going to have a whole section on this concept

of godly wisdom, if any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think he will receive anything from the law. Lord. He is a double-minded man, unstable, and all he does. Think about that for a second. That phrase being double-minded and unstable in all they do. Like, I can identify with that. In an immature spiritual state, and a lot of people probably

listen to our podcast, are like, man, I'm a new Christian, I'm trying to figure this out, and you feel like you're back and forth, you're back and forth, you're back and forth, and you're back and forth, and you are. And I think that as when we're immature in our faith, we are back and forth. And the reason why is because we actually still think there's some kind of benefit on the other side. We actually believe in the lie still. We're saying, well, it would be fun, you know, but I know it's wrong. And so you're back and you're forth. And what it is, the immature, the Hebrew writer says they have a very difficult time. And I should say we, because I've been there. And the immature have a difficult time distinguishing what is actually good and what is actually evil. It's hard to determine between

the two because sometimes evil looks really enticing. There's a reason why we sin. The Bible says sin is fun. Yeah, it's pleasurable. Like, yeah, that's why we do it. But it's a lie. And so the Hebrew writer says that the mature, who by constant use, have trained themselves to distinguish what is good from evil. So your patterns and your rhythms of life, actually help you determine and you can look at things, but that's actually a lie. That's actually good. And you can actually live it out. And that's why when you, his point here, why would you consider it joy when you face a trial? Because that's stupid, right? You're in the trial. This is not pleasurable. It's not fun. It's the trial that actually produces in you the perseverance.

It's the perseverance that helps you become mature. It's the maturation, maturity, completion, but to that word, I think it's probably teleology or tell us there, that you're actually coming to the end of what, you're being what you're supposed to be through this process, and that way you can actually, you're not taken by the things that would actually destroy you. This is like how you would come out of a drug addiction or any kind of addiction. This is the pathway.

Or when you're young as well. All right. All right, well, I'm going to leave it right there. He's going to give an illustration in the next section, which is kind of what you just described. I would call it an upside down look at what a blessing really looks like to your face. So we'll pick it up here next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast.

Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.