Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1352 | Taxing the Rich Sounds Righteous — Until Everyone Pays for It

Episode Date: June 10, 2026

Jase, Al, and Zach discuss how envy, entitlement, and political promises to punish success can quietly reshape a culture that already struggles with work, maturity, and personal responsibility. The guys dig into the subtle road from desire to destruction, warning that ruin is often sold as personal freedom long before anyone recognizes it as bondage. Zach gets hilariously roasted by a stranger who had no idea he was insulting “The Blind” to someone who helped make it. In this episode: James 3, verse 6; 2 Chronicles 28; 2 Chronicles 32; Jeremiah 7; Luke 23, verse 43; 2 Thessalonians 1, verses 8–10; 1 Corinthians 6, verses 19–20; Matthew 5, verses 27–30; 2 Corinthians 12, verses 1–4; John 17, verse 3; James 1, verses 2–18; 1 Corinthians 15, verses 20–26; Hebrews 12, verses 26–28; Job 23, verses 8–11; 1 Corinthians 15, verses 42–58; Acts 1, verses 9–11; 1 John 5, verse 21; 2 Thessalonians 3 “Unashamed” Episode 1352 is sponsored by: https://www.wildalaskan.com/UNASHAMED — Get $35 off your first box of wild-caught, sustainable seafood delivered right to your door. https://myphdweightloss.com — Find out how Al lost 80+ pounds. Visit the website or call 864-644-1900 and mention "AL" to get 2 weeks free in the program! https://fastgrowingtrees.com — Get 20% your first purchase when using the code UNASHAMED at checkout. https://unashamedgold.com — Get a free 2026 Gold & Silver Guide and a no obligation consultation!  http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/ — Sign up now for free, and join the Unashamed hosts every Friday for Unashamed Academy Powered by Hillsdale College Listen to Not Yet Now with Zach Dasher on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or anywhere you get podcasts. Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/at-home-with-phil-robertson/id1835224621 Chapters 00:00 Zach Gets Roasted for “The Blind” 03:52 Yay Italia! 08:48 Gehenna, Justice & Hell 14:37 What’s Wrong with Mansions on a Hilltop 21:20 Paradise, Heaven & Being with Jesus 26:16 Laws That Can’t Be Broken 33:33 What are Firstfruits? 40:15 Job’s Faith When God Feels Hidden 45:35 The Resurrected Body & Victory over Death 50:09 From Idols to Idle Faith — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Spotify, it's Jay Shetty. Are you one of those media strategy people? Scrolling through spreadsheets, searching for an audience that pays twice as much attention to your ads than they do on social? Let me introduce you to fans. And they're here with me on Spotify. Trust me, I know fans.

They don't skip, they stay for hours. They don't move on, they manifest. They're not a demographic group. They're fans. Spotify advertising. You're among fans. I am unashamed. What about you?

Let's act like we're on a spaceship called. We're not going to say, hell, Mary. Let's just say, blessed Jesus. That's what we're going to name our ship. And grace can be there because that's obvious. I'm still confused. Are we recorded the podcast right now?

Yes, we are rolling. We are recording. We are recording. We're recording. We weren't sure. The problem with doing this podcast is you're having a cat. check up. I'm telling so for our audience

for our audience jace was explaining his recent movie outing the movie he loved which we talked about on the podcast because there was so many spiritual components to this movie it was I loved it and then I actually pitched a movie

idea Zach based on a true story because Zach is a movie guy yeah so you'll have to go back and listen to the podcast I pitched a movie idea movie on my Little League Baseball coaching experience, and I want to name it, the Good News Bears.

But we'll have to see about that. I actually love that idea. I was with some folks. I won't say their names because this is kind of embarrassing, but I am going to send them this once it releases. Just use my name. I don't care. I'll use it.

I'm talking with a couple guys. There's a group of us, and there's probably four of us in a circle. we're in at this we're in a in Utah and and so there was a dad and his two sons and then me and then one of my buddies and I really like this family because it was a lot like they reminded me of my family of us the dad was just like hilarious and he literally said these are two the two sons that I'm ashamed of that never really amounted to anything oh wow and which was hilarious he's joking was that's my dad would do something like that yeah yeah you know So I kind of like these.

So then he points to one of the signs, and he says, like, and this gentleman, I'll say, we'll call him Bill. Yeah, Bill, he's kind of a contrarian. Everything he grew up with, he hates now. If it's, he's like, he's on a mission. And, of course, you know, Bill's kind of like, that's not true. And give me an example. And I say he's like Christian films. I don't like them.

And they've been involved in some Christian films. And his brother knew that my film. the I done was the blind. So he said, what about the blind? And he said, worst movie I've ever seen. Worst movie I've ever seen.

And he's kind of like, you know, like, and so he's just trying to be shocking. Yeah. He had no clue that I did the film. And so his brother's like just hunched over and just died laughing. He said,

you realize who this guy is? He said, no, I just met him. He said, this is Phil Roberts's nephew. you. And he's just like, he said, he wrote the film. He wrote the story for the film. And he was like, oh, and it was just like a moment of just like, he's trying to crawl fish. But he's not because he's also like, he's like, he's, well, I mean, you got to understand. And he's, and of course, the rest of the, the two days together. I mean, I just, every, everything went back to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, what do you think? No. No, no, didn't let him off the hook. So. But I. But, I. But, I. I'll take a love, Jay's, because I want to make a few more movies.

I want to make one about Mac and Mary's story, which I had on, we had Mac and Mary Owen on. It's some story. Yeah, well, this is think the bad news bears, but not. But since we're being totally transparent, talk about insult, when I got home and Mrs. So how'd the podcast go? Because we didn't have Zach. I was like, yeah, he's in Italy, which created a funny banter. because I always think about my dad when Italy comes up

because one of our sponsors during the Duck Commander days was an Italian gunmaker, Vanelli. And so my dad pulled off this one great commercial that was his idea. And he was like, the best kind of shotgun is one that goes boom, boom, boom. You can still find it out there in computer. Yeah, they ran that. But some of the ones that didn't make,

the cut were hilarious. And because I remember one of them, he said, all right, turn it camera and I got you commercial. And he went, Italy, pizzas and shotguns. Yay, Italia. It's a little more than that. That one did not make the cut, but in the moment everyone burst in. into uncontrollable laughter. Are you really?

Really? Yep. So you're going to argue with me about who makes the best meatballs on planet Earth? The Italians make the best meatballs on planet Earth. Secondly, you see this? That's called a Pinelli. Italian made just like with the meatballs. Yay! Italia.

I can say it's saying after that little. Yay, Italia. Hey, let me tell you something. Let me tell you something, though. The Italians are on to something. I was shocked. This actually shocked me. So we go to this thousand-year-old castle.

I mentioned it on the last podcast. And this thing was like, I mean, it was, it's like you step back in a time. I mean, it was absolutely incredible. Jill loved it. I loved it. It was in the, it was right. in Umbria right on the border. Like literally there's a road, a dirt road outside the castle,

and you're standing like up on this hill. Did you get me permission to metal detect that council? Oh my gosh. I don't think. Jay, this is the kind of place that I was having trouble fitting in. I don't know if you would fit it at all. I just can't believe you wouldn't even ask that question. I couldn't.

You want a movie? Some people just need to realize they don't belong. Let me go metal detect that yard at the castle. Well, maybe you could get a job as a gardener and then you could just... Well, I think you could probably sneak one in because it's 3,200 acres, and you can have, but you just got to be, you got to sneak around. Well, even look, if you film it, even if the law comes, that just adds to the movie. It's a new reality show.

If there's this place, I'm not going to say the name of the place, but if this place would allow us to film there, I would 100% go do that and take advantage of that. Just line that up, line it up. The food was great. Everything was great. Well, the other side was Tuscany, so you're right on the border. And anyway, so we were- The border of what?

Of Tuscany and Umbria. Okay. So it's like the two, I guess, their versions of states or whatever. Yeah. But we met some, I mean, so it's kind of a smaller place. So it's like, you know, probably 35 rooms, kind of a boutique hotel. And so one of the couples there that we got to meet were from Rome. And so they were like, well, yeah.

And so we get to talk about the Lord. We're talking about Jesus. I mean, they speak English or do you know Italian? Well, I mean, I don't know Italian. They spoke English. But the wife was a philosopher and like for the Catholic Church. And then he was a businessman. And he's done a lot of stuff and kind of the stock market stuff.

So, you got, J.S. Y'all had a great conversation. But, I mean, we got into some great conversations about, you know, about Jesus, about faith, about culture. And so he texts me and said, man, let me get your number. And he said, I want to keep up with you. And so he texts me and said, hey, when you guys come back to Rome, we'd love to take you to dinner. That was like one of the best conversations we've had in a long time. We've never got to explore a lot of these concepts with people.

So they took us to dinner in Rome. We're going to show you the real Rome. And so they took us to an incredible dinner at our last night there. And one of the things that he told me that they're, they've limited in Italy now, that they have a maximum. If you, if you move there, then the most, there's a limit to what you can pay in taxes. Nobody pays over $200,000 a year in taxes. So they have a limit, which I think is incredible when you think about like inviting in businesses and inviting in people who will, who will. So, I mean, I've always thought Europe.

I've always thought, well, that's like, they're way more socialist than we are. But that's a pretty massive, me, I haven't verified it if that's true or not, but that's a pretty massive move if that's the case. Well, I mean, if you're paying $200,000 in tax? But at least there is a limit. I mean, that's... But what if you're a guy that's worth? What if you're a guy that's like, you know, you got a business?

Yeah. You see what I'm saying? Like, I mean, those are the kind of moves, though, that create businesses and create jobs. Well, compare that to the mayor of New York. The guy just bought a $230. $38 million pin house and he goes and films a commercial in front of the building and says,

this is the kind of guy we're fixing to soak. I mean, and calls him out on a commercial. And the guys, you know what he said? All right, stand in Florida. I mean, that's what you do, right? When somebody calls you out and says they won't take a lot. Because it's a lie. You tax the rich, and we all, like,

we can look at whatever you consider the rich to be, which is always, it's a relative concept, right? I mean, but, but when you suck money out, when you tax, where's that money go? it goes into the pockets of the central planners. Somebody's going to get it, right? Yeah. It goes into the pockets of the central planners. And a pack of cigarettes at the local convenience store.

You're getting into my sermon that I wrote yesterday during the sermon, which was because when I saw the song leader, who was when we were in charge of that for a couple of years, he was one of the interns. Yeah. He's now leading. And he looked at me and he's like, well, what did you think? Because we went to the archipella service.

I was like, oh, it was good. And I'm thankful that there were no mentions over the hilltops. Because the last time he led that song, I launched into about a 17-minute dissertation about where that song came from. Which happened to be the first song I ever led. Because I was like seven years old. And they were doing the training of the youth, the raising up of the guard, as they said, all right, this is, you're going to get up there and lead a song on Wednesday night, Zach. You ready?

I said, I'm ready. And it starts with, I'm satisfied with. Just a College Below. But that was the first song I ever led. But one day I got a mansion just over the hilltop. And so my line, look, I literally have this written down, illustration. Mansions Over the Hilltop. My title of this lesson is focus on the person or people, not the place.

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I do this, Gahena. Yeah. Because we talked about Gahenna. Because look, it's coming up in James 3. The word is used on the power of the tongue. He said, it's your tongue. Be careful how you use it. Because it's set on fire by the fires of hell.

But that word is Gahena, the same. Valley of Henham. Valley of Ben Hanam that's in the Old Testament, Secre Chronicles 28, Second Chronicles 32. And the whole reason, we researched this, Zach. Yeah. I'm trying to get you caught up in where we're at. So you've got caught. Y'all are getting into some controversy now. Oh, no, no controversy. This is a historical fact. Without you, Zach, there was no controversy.

I pulled up a pitcher. You can go visit. Next time you go to Italy, stop over in Israel on the way or, you know, make a trip. You're in the region. And you can pull up there and walk around in this valley. And the reason people are not familiar with it, because it's, it's two of the worst chapters as far as just what humans would do to another human. And here you have the leadership of the Israel nation sacrificing kids to these false gods and setting it a fire. And so Jeremiah comes along in chapter 7 and says, yeah, you remember that? Well, you got justice coming. And so then the leaders of the Israel nation, experienced just a throttling by the hands of Babylon,

and they were burned in the same pit that they sacrificed children. And so when Jesus used that term, they were all familiar with what happened. Same with James. Yeah. And so I made the point that he wasn't so much talking about the place as he was talking about, you're going to stand for God, for whatever injustices that you've done

and he's going to make it right. And so that's why it was translated. It's like, Zach, when we went to doing the movie, when we went to Auschwitz, we went to the, it's a place. It's in a country. It's in Poland. But when you get there, it's more than a place because of what happened there. And that's the same concept you're describing is the idea that it's the evil that

that is the problem. Instead of making it just the spot. But my concept, just to finish my theological point, is what I didn't realize when we talked about Gahanna, which I wish I would have done, which landed in the sermon, which is why I came

up with the mansions over the hilltop. He does the same thing with the word that we translate heaven, that word paradise. So look on the other side. What was his point there? Well, that word means garden. So when you think he's picturing the consequences of your life.

You have one concept, which is a garden. And what did he tell the thief on the cross where he used it? He's like, today, you will be with me in paradise. Now just stop and think about this for a moment. He's dying. The thief on the cross has died. And now this guy who people think is the son of God, and he's making these claims about I am and the father sent me all this,

he looks over at a guy. who are on a Roman cross in the same country you were in. And he's like, hey, later we're going to meet up at a garden. You're like, what? In that moment, what kind of concept is he introducing here? You're going to be with me in a garden later on today. Well, that just blows your mind. How could a man who's dying look to his fellow guy,

that's dying, who is a criminal and a thug by all accounts, even though the one saying this has had this injustice done to him. And he's like, yeah, we'll meet up in a garden because you recognize who I am. You got it. And so I think the picture in Gahanna and in the garden is way bigger than what it's become. Like, oh, there's a place I'm going to go. I'm just sitting around waiting for God to take me to the place. Now, I think the with me is awesome.

And I think if you think you got away with something on this earth, oh, no, there's a reckoning coming. And I was just introducing that. It's more about the relationship and the relationships you made rather than there's some place that we have to escape to. That was not his point. Well, and Jay's point about Madison over the hilltop, when you look at it with what he just in the context of what he just described, mansion over the hilltop sounds a little light. Well, and throw in this out. Some of the most miserable people.

Are mansions on the hilltop. Are people who are living in mansions on hilltops. Exactly. Because they put all their eggs in money, fame, power, and they're living alone. You actually just describe where we're at in this text, too, when we're going to pick it back. Oh, it is where we're at because when you think about, when you were saying that about the kind of the, the picture or the vibe of the thing. And you mentioned Auschwitz.

So you walk into Auschwitz, you just feel the darkness. It's there. I mean, it's like palatable. Yeah. Right. When you walk into like, when people have come into our church,

for example, they're like, what's the new age people are like, what's the, man, what's this vibe? That's the language they would use or energy.

And what they're describing is like the, well, the term, And early church was called paracarices, which was the, it was the spirit of the body. If you walk into the body, you're like, what is, what is this? Like, you can fill it. You can just fill the presence of the Lord in your midst. And so I think it's one of the things that James is doing, I think it's the primary thing he's doing, is he's essentially drawing us into that idea.

He's taking these concepts of faith and works and whatnot. and he's bringing them into like a real experiential knowledge of like this is like to your point, Jason, it's relational. So when you think about the word Gahena as it's used in scripture to talk about hell, Paul says in Second Thessalonians when he describes it, he says that people will be punished. When he talks about the reprobate, the way that he says they'll be punished is they will be shut out from what? from the presence of the Lord on the day he returns. We say, well, what's the other people going to be doing?

That's the reprobate. What are the saints going to be doing? Well, they're not going to be shut out from the presence of the Lord. And the description of what they'll be doing is they'll be marveling at his glory. So they'll be beholding the glory of God and they'll just be consumed in a positive way by it, like, captivated by his beauty, by his glory, by his. So when you think, well, I just got back from Umbria and I'm standing on the edge of a mountain and I'm looking at the valley, and I'm like,

and that experience of seeing God's glory and creation. And like, and you're like, wow, this is so beautiful and you're captivated. Like that times a million times a trillion forever and ever and ever. That's what it means to marvel at the glory of God. And so when you think about what Alshu is you're not marveling at his glory, it's darkness. It's death culture. It's death work.

It's every man for himself. It's, I mean, it's darkness. It's hell. That's what hell is, being shut, being left over to your, own vices being, God turning you over to yourself, Romans chapter one, to do what ought not to be done. Those are the two pictures here. And so what we're being invited into is a participatory knowledge of who God is. And James is telling us how to do that. That's what he's saying. So, Jase, what's the most ambitious landscaping project that you've ever taken on?

Well, I just planted three trees in my backyard. Wow. I've actually taken on a real landscaping project at my house. I think we planted over. over probably 400 plants. I mean, this is a total landscaping revamp. Fast green trees, it's America's largest and most trusted online nursery with thousands of trees and plants and over 2 million happy customers. They've got fruit trees, privacy trees, shrubs, and even houseplants. In fact, my yard right now is bordered. I've bordered my yard, Jace, with crisp laurels. And fast grain trees makes that kind of project simple. All you get it is click, order, and you're good to grow. Plus, everything's backed by what they call their alive and thrive guaranteed. So everything arrives

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You know, in 1st Corinthians 6, when he says in verse 19, do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit? Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God. You are not your own. You were bought at a price. Therefore, honor God with your body. Why is he saying that? Well, when you go back to the sermon on the Mount, all of a sudden, remember when he said,

oh, you've heard it said, not to commit adultery, but I tell you, if you look lustfully, lustfully at a woman. And that's why I think we have the problem. We look at these laws and we're like, okay, no, what can I get away with here? Jesus gives this sermon. It's like, I can't get away with anything. It's like he knows me, even what I'm thinking. He knows what I'm wanting to do, but then justifying because I'm like, well, I haven't committed

adultery. Yeah. But you're looking at every woman in an ungodly way. And that was his point all along. And that's why I think James, people are just, they have trouble wrapping their head around. So, but you brought up the thing about heaven. Look, do you know how many times the word heaven is you? used singularly in the Old Testament?

Not many. Zero. There you go. So my point is... And by not many, I mean, none. None. Well, I figured you realize it's a trick question. It's always plural.

Yeah. So even if we translated it, saying, oh, it's plural. I've looked this up. Oh, yeah. And my point was, so I had this epiphany about the gospel diagram, and I shared it with one person yesterday, because Missy, was she was embarrassed. She was like, what are you doing?

You know, because I was writing all this stuff. And I was like, oh, I just had a lightning boat moment. Because you have all these people that if you say, well, what are you doing in life? And people say, well, I just want to go to heaven. I'm just waiting, waiting to go to heaven. And I made a point to, and I'm saying my buddy, it's the first guy who I got to participate in him coming to the Lord, my best friend in high school. And I asked.

asked him, I said, what do you, what do you think about going to heaven? Where's that at in the Bible? And he said, I'm sure it's in there somewhere, but I'm not thinking of the verse, you know. And so, and then I asked him, I said, well, do you know that in the Old Testament, heaven is always used in the plural? I said, so I got a question, if you were going to heaven, which one would you go to? So you know where I'm going with this, because the other, one of the other places, Paradise is mentioned is when Paul shares this weird dream about himself. He was called up to paradise. This is in the third heaven.

You're like, oh, there's three of them? And my whole point for bringing this up is that's not the point as far as the place because it's the relationship that's way, way, way more important. So the epiphany I had about the gospel diagram was this. I said, where does, I said, you know that gospel diagram? and there was a bulletin that had it on it. I said, where does that start and where does it end? And he was looking at it.

And he's like, well, I'm not sure what you're asking. I was like, I was pretty clear. Where does it start and where does it in? And he said, well, you got Jesus coming down from heaven. I was like, okay, got that. And then where does it in? He's like, well, Jesus is coming out of heaven. I was like, isn't that weird that I ask you what this was all about?

and we had a discussion on going to heaven, but the very thing that we said all our eggs are in this basket starts with Jesus coming out of heaven and ends with Jesus coming from heaven. I was like, isn't that weird? He's like, I'm going to have to think about that. Well, I think it's key because when I had this great conversation about this week too, about that John 173 passage

and how eternal life is described by Jesus is a relationship. It's to know the one true God in Jesus Christ's son whom he sent. He doesn't say eternal life is this, that one day you're going to get raptured and go somewhere. He just doesn't say that. And so he says it is an experiential knowledge. It's a participatory life in Christ. And so I think that's when you get to like a passage in like James, it starts to frame it up like this. Because you mentioned the word law earlier.

And so you can view the word law in two different ways. and one way you can do view the word law is there's a courthouse down there that they got a bunch of rules and if you break one of those rules then guess what you get in trouble you get a fine you go to jail whatever you pay the consequence for it but it's more like a list of rules there's another way that you can view law which is like the law of thermodynamics like the laws of thermodynamics the first and the second so like these are laws that actually can't be broken Gravity. Gravity.

Go out there and try to break gravity. We're not going to play by that one. Unless you had a new body of some sort. If you had it, well, but there's still be other laws that will govern that body. Because these are laws that are more descriptions of reality. And you say, well, I can break the law of gravity. Okay, then you go out to a building and then you get to the edge of it, get about eight stories up, and you just figure it out away without any mechanical assistance.

You're going to, I'm going to jump off this building. And I will, and I'm determined I will not fall. The only way you could change that is if somehow you had a relationship with the one who made the law of gravity. Yeah. Then you might could do that. Well, and if you could change your perishable body to imperishable, which you can't, but someone I think can't.

But even that, though, those are, if you understand law as a description of reality, then what's happening is that reality might, like, you might have a different, your situation may change in reality, right? But it will, with a resurrected body, it will. But I think what James is getting at here is this is like he's actually taking the covers off and he said, hold on, I'm trying to show you the way the world really is. And particularly what I'm trying to show you is the way, here's who you really are. This is what you're really designed for.

And if you act outside of this design, If you act outside of this intent purpose, then what you're doing is you're actually acting in unreality. And that leads to death. You can't live that way because it's not real. And so when he uses words like, my translation is different than y'all's, but it says verse two, count on all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, where you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. and I think y'all says perseverance

and let steadfastness have its full effect so that you may be perfect and complete lacking in nothing. Y'all say maturity? What is your saying? Yeah, mature and complete. Maturity, but I call it a process. So the Greek word for that is to layoi

and it comes from like the word like teleos or telos or teleology. And what it means is, it means that there's like a design behind all this. And so like there's a, there's a tell us to this thing I hold my hand right here. If you're not watching, it's a, it's white, it's hollow inside. It's got a handle on the outside.

And it's called a cup. And it has a purpose. And so the purpose of this cup is that what I'll do is I'll walk in there to this thing called a coffee maker. And I got a pot and I pour coffee in here and I drink it. And that's his purpose. If I try to brush my teeth with this, then what's going to happen is I'm going to chip my teeth. It's not going to work because I'm not used. using it as it was intended to be used.

And it's operating outside of its design, its function. And so what James is saying is that there is a purpose and there's an intention to your humanity. And if you operate outside of that, you try to brush your teeth with a cup, a glass cup, it's going to break in your mouth and cut your gums all up. It's not going to worry because you're using it outside. But if you use it for a cup, then guess what? Oh, it's awesome.

I've drinking, I already drinking, a drunk three cups of coffee out of the same this morning. And so what he's saying is, this is how you live in reality as a human being. That's why he's setting this up like that. You'll come to completion. You'll come to you. He's not saying you're going to come to like,

like, flawlessness. Well, he's not talking about that. He's saying you're going to live out the way this is, you're going to live in your true intent purpose of design. And that's big. So if you guys have been to the grocery store lately, I can tell you one thing you've probably noticed is the right.

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about this is the way sin works. You know, it builds itself in. You mentioned both murder and adultery. Again, people don't set out with the idea this is where I'm going, but the mindset and the action lead you to the place. That's why when you get to the end of this section, he has two cycles. You have the earthly cycle, which is,

which it's real tricky we need to talk about after I give this point. Because the word temptation and the, the word trial is really close. Yeah, they're close. And it's hard to discern. So what the translators do is they just kind of base it on the context because you're not real sure. I mean, they're basically identical.

Yeah. Which is difficult because it's like God, he's saying the testing of your faith is a positive thing. But that, that word is when Jesus teaches. is the disciples how to pray on the sermon on the mount he's like lord lead us not into temptation so you're like well or tests i mean it's if you look it up it's going to be the same words so they're like well this must be the temptation one because yeah it's evil and so james does the same thing when he gets to verse 13 when tempted no one should should say i mean you could put tested there

because for us that language could use either or. But they put tempted because it brings up, well, God cannot be tempted by evil, evil, nor does he tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when by his own evil desire, he's dragged away and enticed. Then after desire is conceived, it gives birth to sin, sin when it's full grown, gives birth to death. Well, there's the cycle of death. But then he gives the cycle of life.

And you're like, well, where does that start? But don't be deceived. Every good and perfect gift is from above coming down from the Father, which is why I brought up the point about the arrow coming down. What if heaven comes down? What if God does something about our condition? From the Father of the Heavenly Lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. And then here we have a cycle of life. he chose to give us birth, because that's in contrast to sin being full grown, gives birth to death.

Well, what does this birth do through the word of truth that we might be a kind of first fruit of all he created? Well, where does that fray – I love that he uses that first fruits because it's not used very often. Colossians is one of them. Colossians. Well, 1 Corinthians 15. Yeah. So when we're talking about the resurrection, You remember what he said? I think this goes to your point, Zach, but you'll have to help me make the segue.

So when he says in 1st Corinthians 15, in verse 20, where he uses first fruits, he said, but Christ has indeed been raised from the dead. The first fruits of those who have fallen asleep, for since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as an Adam all die, so in Christ. all will be made alive, but each in his own turn, Christ, the first fruits, which is so fascinating

that here he's talking about Christ being the very first fruits of a human coming back to life. And then James is saying, when you're born again, you become a type of first fruit. Then when he comes, look, those who belong to him. then the end will come when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power. And here's where I want to get to, Zach. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. And then this statement, the last enemy to be destroyed is death. Death itself. So I'm not sure how that factors into the law of thought. Thermodynamics and the law of gravity and all this, but there's coming a time for those who are born again, where there's no death.

So that opens up some possibilities, is what I'm saying, about jumping off. And the reason why there'll be no death is because, well, one, Christ conquered it, but we're going to be living in full reality, meaning that it won't be possible to believe in unreality. But you know where I was heading with that, because then when he goes into that further, because he realizes they're going to have trouble wrapping their head around it. And so he gets into the actual body in verse 45, or 42. The body that is sown is perishable. It is raised and perishable.

That's why I was bringing that up. Yeah, that's the thing, though. If you look at these first few verses of James when he's talking about the perseverance of the trial or the test, if you want to call it that, he said, but God's not, it's not, like, not like God's testing anybody. That's not what this is. He's trying to explain what I think the Hebrew writer explains really well. In Hebrews 12, when he talks about there's a shaking. I mentioned, I think in this podcast, we mentioned all the time that verse where he says we can't believe, we don't belong to a kingdom that can be shaken or destroyed. But before he says that, the Hebrew writer, he talks about

like these other two, these other, there's like three shakening. There's one that happened at Mount Sinai. But then there's another shakening where he says, he says, this is in verse 26, I will not only the earth yet once more i will shake not only the earth but also the heavens verse 27 of hebrews 12 this phrase yet once more indicates the removal of the things that are are shaken that is the things that have been made in order that the things that cannot be shaken may remain which which is the kingdom so when you think about the trials you say well what is that that that's that shaking you're shaking the tree you know shaking the earth shaking the heavens, and the things that will fade away, those are the things that were never

meant to last anyways. These are the fading beauties, the things that are dying over time. They're not going to remain. And so that's why we said, he says, blessed is the one who perseveres that, because what's happening is he's bringing the earth, the heavens and the earth, which should include our physical bodies, he's bringing us into completion. and the things that will remain, the only thing that will remain,

will be the kingdom of God with the new heavens and the new earth. And so that's why we say, that's why he says you're actually blessed. And so when you've stood the test, when you stood the trial, it's not that God's like, has a litmus test and trying to figure out,

okay, who's going to be loyal? No, this is an unfolding of God's plan and reality, and if you can persevere through that, then you're going to actually be part of that story forever. Well, and I always think about when we talk about this subject of trial, I always think about Joe because it was a whole book written with a guy who went through a lot of difficult things. But I love one little quote he has right in the middle of the book, because it really does describe a lot sometimes.

Because remember that word, he says, unstable and all he does, you know, we're looking for something to hang her hat on to be stable. And here's the way Joe put in Joe 23, 8. I had one out of many great passages, but he says, if I go to the, you know, you're looking for the east, he's not there. If I go to the west, I will not find him. When he is at work in the north, I do not see him. When he turns to the south, I catch no glimpse of it. I mean, we've been there, right, in these situations where you're looking, you're saying, where are you you, God? What are you trying to tell me? Then he says this, but he knows the way that I take

when he has tested me, I will come forth as gold. My feet have closely followed his steps. I have kept to his way without turning aside. In other words, what he says is, north, south, east, west. I can't seem to do it. But you know what? He's there. He's beyond north, south, east, and west.

So he knows what I need. I just love that. And the gold's a perfect analogy because what does the refiner do with the gold? He melts away the impurities. He shakes it, and then things fall off of it. And those things get burned up, and then what you're left with is pure gold.

and so James is saying that that's who you are. This is who you really are. That's why the identity starts with Christ. James, a servant of God and the Lord Jesus Christ, Christ is the identity, first and foremost, that's our identity. And then he's drawing us back into that. So when you go through trials or temptations, you shouldn't look at it as God doing that to you.

In fact, the temptation when he says is each person is tempted, verse 14, and when he is lured and enticed by his own evil desire. So it's your own twisted desire, which is a misappropriated or improperly indexed desire, meaning you're wanting the wrong, your wanters broken. And so when that gets broken, that's how temptation occurs. Then that desire, it actually conceives. This is the progression of death, right? It conceives.

and then there's a baby, and the baby of that desire is you actually sin. You go do the thing that you're desiring. And then that sin begins to grow and fester. And I mean, think about this is like the process of addiction, but it's the process of sin. So as it keeps growing, you don't manage it. You don't say, okay, I've finally gotten enough immorality here, and I'm good now. I mean, sexually, that doesn't work, right? You've tried that.

You've said, well, yeah, I just started off with a little bit of this. Then it just keeps going, or I'm just going to do this one. drug. I'm just one intoxication. And then, no, that's not how it works. Like you start, somebody starts at a party when they're 15 years old and somebody says, you want a beer. That's how the attic

starts. That's how the guy, the heroin addict on the street doesn't start by, you know, snort and fentanyl. That's not how this, he didn't start doing fentanyl. Back to that process again. It's a problem. I mean, we lost our cousin to a fentanyl overdose. Exactly. And he was brilliant. And he was gifted.

But he didn't start that way. I remember a time when he was not doing fentanyl. I remember a time when he wasn't doing cocaine. I remember a time when that was a progression to sin. And so when sin is fully grown, guess what it brings forth, death. Yeah. That's the process. Zach, I remember it well.

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You see these pictures of people, you know, when they were 18 or 20, and then when they're 35 after some drug addiction. You just look at the picture. It's like pretty much all you need to know right there. Yeah, exactly. Look at them. I want to finish this thought. I didn't plan on going here, but y'all have triggered me. So in 1st Corinthians 15, when he says, so it will be in 42 with the resurrection of the dead,

the body that is sown is perishable, is raised and perishable. And it goes through other different qualities that it will be. But then he comes back to this heaven and earth because in verse 46, because this is all in response to this idea of going to heaven versus becoming heavenly. Yeah. It says the spiritual did not come first but the natural, and after that, the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth. And we just read about Adam, which started this cycle of sin and death.

But then it says the second man was from heaven. That's why the gospel diagram, that's where it starts. as was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth. We stand and we die. And so is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. And just as we have born the likeness of the earthly man, so we shall bear the likeness of the man from heaven. We're going to be like him.

That's why I love one of my favorite hobbies on the earth is to read what Jesus did post-resurrection. I love it. I love it when he caught those fish. And then he said, come over here and let's eat some. Yeah. I absolutely love that because I'm like, heaven and earth has come together the way it should be. So then it says, so I tell you a mystery, because that's hard for us to wrap our head around. And he says, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

Because if you're still in that Adam state, know Jesus, what's going to happen to you? You're going to sin and you're going to die. A few people are going to show up, sing a few songs and say, yep. But then it says, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed in a flash in the twinkling of the night. The last trumpet, the trumpet will sound. The dead will be raised imperishable.

And we'll be changed. Change to what? We're changed to be like the heavenly, a body that is not going to die. Imperishable. I think that's what it means. Then he says from mortal to immortality. But here's where I wanted to get to. In all this, we just think, oh, this is the resurrection passage.

He does the same thing James does. He goes right back to where this all started when he gets to 54. He says, when the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true. Death has been swallowed up in victory. That's why it's the last enemy. And then he goes back to that cycle of death. Where O death is your victory?

Where old death is your sting? The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. He just left out the evil desire part that James had. But it's the same cycle. But thanks be to God, he gives us the victory through Jesus Christ, our Lord. And then I wanted to read this because just like James does, because people tend to say Paul and James are at odds, where does Paul go after all this resurrection, the earthly turning into the heavenly new bodies? He says, therefore, stand firm, let nothing move you, always give yourself fully to the work of the Lord. He brings up work, even here.

Work of the Lord because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain. Why is he picking up work and labor? And that seems to be exactly what James is doing. Do you remember the phrase that the angel said when the disciples are standing there and as Jesus has given his parting words defines his own law of gravity and, you know, by literally leaving the planet that away, wherever up to the heavens with the S. You remember what the angel said when he appears? He's a, why are y'all standing around looking up this way?

We got work to do. At some point he's coming back. Well, I think this goes back to the garden too, that when they ate that first fruit, right? Like what was so wrong about that? Like, what was the big deal about eating the fruit from the knowledge of good and evil? One of the ways that I think you can see it is their sin was that they did not receive that particular tree as gift. from God. And they ate it for the sake of itself. They said, oh, there's a tree that we can go eat of that wasn't given as a blessing. It wasn't given as a gift. And so we're going to go eat that one.

And there's some kind of blessing in that tree, right? But it's a blessing that was not given as gift. Because God said, you can eat from every tree in the garden except for one. Don't eat from that one. If you eat one, that one, you're surely not. They said, well, that's the one to go eat up. But that's not the one that was given as a gift. And so when you get here, you think, well, what's the real nature of sin. And we talked about that progression of sin that leads to death. It's ultimately, he contrasted it with, he says, don't be deceived. There, brothers, that every good gift and every perfect gift, it doesn't come from your own evil desire. That's what he's saying. It's not, it doesn't come from that tree. It comes from where? It comes down from the father of lights

with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. Of his own will, he brought us forth by the word of truth that we should be a kind of first fruits of his creatures. Well, now we're talking a whole lot about what Jace just mentioned. What does that mean? You are, your tellos, to be complete, to be made, who you were made to be is to bear the image of Christ. It's to, it's to smell and to look like Jesus. Jesus was the first born, but right, we are the first, but we're kind of first fruits of his creatures. So we're created to actually be, like, we're created to participate in the divine life.

And so when you read this, this is not, these aren't like some kind of like little lessons that he's given us. James is actually unfolding the very nature of reality for the reader, for us to see how do we actually participate in that reality. And it's the same process of growth and maturity. It's like the, I love to quote, I call it the great theologian, Robert McCall of Equalizer 2 when he's about to just put a whooping on this guy and he says, there's two kinds of pain, pain that hurts and pain that

alters. And he's given this guy a choice. And I think we all have that choice in pains, whatever it may be. When I was about six years old, me and my cousin Mark were over in Ida. And we thought it was a good idea to take rocks and throw them at a full. nest of purple-tailed wasp, you know, at a distance where we could hit it. Well, one of us hit it. And then we found out that was a terrible idea. Because then the purple-tail wasposs descended on us, and they taught us a lesson. It was pain that both hurt and altered. And I never threw a rocket

of was-n-ness again. In fact, I avoided them at all costs or kill every one of them I can find on my property. And that's what he's talking about here. He's talking about the idea no matter what we go through, whether it's self-led, which we get into temptation, or whether it's done to us, which is certainly the context in James' life what was happening to the church, it's pain that alters you to understanding. And that's how you grow. Why did it alter, though? Why did that alter you? Well, it alter because it hurt. Yeah, and so you looked at the temptation before was, I see that. This will be fun. Yeah, it'll be fun. You do.

it and you're like that wasn't fun that actually hurt fun at all and so you you got older and you matured it wasn't mean when now you could distinguish good from evil you're like that's not that's actually not it looks like it would be fun but actually we i've done that terrible i know how that plays out that that's what's happening here and your faith this is so what james does in the whole book is he he actually gives us a real definition and understanding of faith he does and faith is not like some like exes, like leap into the unknown. We've been taught this our whole life. Faith is what you believe when there's no reason to believe it's true.

No, that's stupidity. That's not faith. That's dumb. Don't do that. If you have no reason to believe it to be true, then don't believe it. That's not the biblical definition of faith. Faith is the substance of things. It has a substance to it.

It's not just like, I'm jumping off the bill, then I hope somebody catches me. No, there's a revelation. at the bottom of the building that's burning, and it looks like firemen with this big trampoline, and they're saying, jump, we'll save your life. I'm going to jump because it's been revealed that there's someone down there to catch me. And if I stay here, I'm going to burn to death.

That faith is to make that kind of leap. And so that's why it can lead to works. Faith without works is dead because it's not real faith. If I really believe in the revelation of God, and guess what? I'm going to do what he said. Yeah. I'm going to do what he said.

All right. Well, I know we're at a time, so I have to introduce this concept because it just hit me. I've never thought about this before. So when we studied first John, the last verse there said, keep yourself away from the model. So people came up with this little catchy saying and said,

there's nothing you can do, you know, to earn your salvation, which is great. Yeah. Yeah, true. And so guess what? So they don't do anything. So look,

they went from not following. Following idols, here's the, here's my lightning bull moment, to be an idol. Same, it sounds the same. It's just as devastating. And Second Thessalonians, that's one I want to get into, because right after this, they'll be shut out from the presence of the Lord, those who don't know God or nobody. As a preacher, I love the turn of a phrase. So when a sermon title from idols to idol, guess what?

We'll preach. Guess what? That will preach. You still missed it. Because people say, well, hey, there's nothing I can do. So guess what they think? It's something that lazy people say because they're like, well, I'm not going to do anything. Well, that's called being idle.

Read Second Thessalonians 3. And the other thing, I never finished my story, what Missy said to me, we got sidetracked, about me doing that movie, about the insults from people you love. She's like, well, you can't do that movie. I was like, why not? She's like, because your family will want to do it, and you'll never get a word in Edgewise. So there you goes.

That was a little jab at you, I think. I laughed. That's so funny. All right, we're out of time. We'll pick it up here next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube.

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