Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1355 | Miss Kay’s Memory Issues Turn Movie Night into a New Kind of Family Moment

Episode Date: June 15, 2026

Miss Kay’s memory issues are changing how her family spends time with her, but they definitely haven’t stolen her joy. Al shares how Miss Kay lights up over simple moments like burger cookouts, popcorn movie nights, and a trip to see a patriotic documentary — and she still cracks a perfectly-timed joke when the moment calls for it. Jase and Al also revisit a few wild childhood memories from Phil’s barroom years after an old George Jones song brings the past rushing back. The guys dig into the difference between trials and temptations, why God uses testing to mature us, and how Satan tries to twist vulnerable moments toward destruction. In this episode: Matthew 6, verse 13; Matthew 4, verses 1–11; Matthew 16, verses 15–23; James 1, verses 2–15; Job 1, verses 6–22; Job 2, verses 9–10; James 5, verse 11; Matthew 5, verse 48; Romans 6, verses 1–14; Hebrews 4, verses 14–16; Hebrews 6, verses 4–12; Romans 1, verses 21–25 “Unashamed” Episode 1355 is sponsored by: http://curehydration.com/unashamed — Get 20% off your first order with promo code UNASHAMED https://myphdweightloss.com — Find out how Al lost 80+ pounds. Visit the website or call 864-644-1900 and mention "AL" to get 2 weeks free in the program! https://fastgrowingtrees.com — Get 20% your first purchase when using the code UNASHAMED at checkout. http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/ — Sign up now for free, and join the Unashamed hosts every Friday for Unashamed Academy Powered by Hillsdale College Listen to Not Yet Now with Zach Dasher on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or anywhere you get podcasts. Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/at-home-with-phil-robertson/id1835224621 Chapters 00:00 Movie Nights with Miss Kay 08:05 Phil’s Quote Shows Up Again 14:28 Growing Up In a Bar 23:33 God Tests but Satan Tempts 34:08 The Choice to Curse God or Trust Him 39:01 What Jesus Meant by ‘Be Perfect’ 44:15 The Controversy of Hebrews 6 49:10 Temptation Starts with Distorted Desires — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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What about you? Welcome back to Unashame. We've had a, so I've been only in town two or three days and I'm leaving again today. I'm in that mode, summer mode, where Lisa's trying to sell houses and Gulf Shores. So I will come home and do some podcast and then head back. And so I ferry grandkids back and forth because they'll stay for three, four-day, however long I stay, and then they're back. And they all have camps and Camp Chioca, which we talk about.

One of them's horse camp, Doc likes that, and other one's basketball camp. And so we're in that back-and-forth mode. So when I'm home, I try to spend some time with mom, especially when Lisa's not here because I'm just bashing it anyway, you know. So we've had movie night two nights in a row from them. Oh, I can't wait because she's been throwing the brothers under the butt. I think she does that to everybody. Oh, she does.

that makes it because she wants you to be there. Yeah. So we did movie night. So the first night, I brought over to the house and I cook burgers because she loves burgers. And we watched our movie. We watched the Faith and Forgiveness movie because she hadn't seen it yet. And I've been telling her about it.

But she's kind of at a place now where she, it's hard for sometimes to follow things. And so we're watching it. And it's people playing us. So she got confused. She could say, now who is that? I said, Mom, that's you. Yeah. Oh, and that's Paula.

Who is Paula? And I said, well, that's Paula Gowan, you know, the one, oh, oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot she knew y'all. So, like, the whole movie I'm having to explain things. But here's the thing. You, you, this saying is true that when parents reach a certain age, they kind of become like kids. Yeah. Because we have, when we have a little man, you know, he wanted to do movie night.

Yeah. And so I was like, okay. And so, I mean, we, the last. time he was this past weekend. I mean, we had a full day. We went swimming. I went, we went to the grocery store. I bought a watermelon. Oh, my goodness. So all day, when we go eat that watermelon? I was like, we're going to get so hot. And I'd given him a job. He made $5. I told him about that story. So when we get to the movie night, which he stayed, you know, about three nights in a row. And it's like, I could not have eaten another thing because we just, we did that. I just ate pretty much

three quarters of that watermelon. He ate a quarter of it. Missy watched us. So he's like, we're going to have popcorn. I was like, because I was thinking, I can't eat.

I'm not going to be able to pass up popcorn. So I do the popcorn. So we watched this movie. It's about David. It's like a cartoon. It's really good. Oh, yeah, yeah. So the next day,

long day, all kinds of fun. Well, we'll have a movie night again. So I go make the popcorn. You know, it wasn't as full this time, so I was more.

excited about the popcorn. Well, it comes on, and I'm like, didn't we watch this last night? I was like, no, let's watch a different movie. You know, I looked at him and his lip, but I want to watch David. And I thought, all right, we'll watch it again, you know. The next night, same thing. But it hit me when you were telling that about, Mom, you could go watch your movie. We could.

And it would be the same effect. Because she looked at me at one point because I was sitting next to her. And we had other people in the room. And my grandkids watched it the first time too, which was interesting because the nature of it is pretty tough. So I had a lot of questions afterwards to answer to them too. So we kind of had a lot of kids, including mom. And mom looked around me at one point. She said, is this where your daddy cheated on me?

And I said, no, mom, you were good by this point. I was like, Lisa and I are doing the cheating at this point. No, you're good, you're good. And she's like, okay. Like, you know, she's, because now she's kind of conflating it with the blind. Well, I'm going to save you some time. Next time you come in town, you just do the same thing. I'm going to do it again.

So she's introduced. She's got a new woman that lives with her. And she's the first time I met her. Yeah. She has a real memorable name that you could never forget. And so the next day I go, over there and she's like, I want to introduce my new friend. I was like, Miss Kay, we did that yesterday.

And she was like, we did. But then, so then the next day was Sunday. So I see her at church. Well, her friend was there. And she's like, you got to meet this woman. And I was like, I would love to meet her because I thought she doesn't realize it, which is okay. And she's happy and she's aware of her surroundings.

and she just doesn't realize that we talked about this yesterday. So it's so funny you said that about the kids. So it's exactly that because so we watched a movie, I take her home. I said, so mom, I said, we're going to go to the movie tomorrow night, but we're going to the actual movie. I said, do you want to do that? Yes, you know.

I said, and we'll go to your favorite restaurant before. She likes this place up here, the fish place. And so we did. And another large group of people, which I didn't factor. I don't go out and eat. much. I don't know how much time to allow, but they were like 16 of us. I should have known better. And so, and plus with kids, you know how they're, it's hard to speed them up. And mom's like that. So we're like, we're not going to make this movie. Like I can tell. So Anna wasn't going.

So I gave her the credit card. I was like, look, we got to get out of here. And I said, mom, we got to go to get to the movie. And she said, well, I'm not finished Edie. And I said, well, you just have a little bit. I said, look, can we just take it with it? Because we're going to miss the first of the movie. So, Zach, we went and saw the Hillsdale movie,

which was a three-night fathom event called Revolutionary America. And it basically was, it picked up

where our lectures ended, you know, after the French Indian War. And then it tells the story of the revolution.

It's excellent. But mom, so we go in, so we've already eaten and she didn't quite finish her food. So we go,

she said, well, I got to have popcorn. I said, okay, we're already 10 minutes late.

And I hate to be late for a movie. Oh, I got that from a mom. I got to have popcorn. So we go get in line, and I got her in a wheelchair because it's easier to get her in the place. So we were waiting in line. We get the popcorn. We get the Coke. I said, are you good, Mom?

Yeah, yeah, I'm excited. So we go in, and they had the little section, you know, for, like, wheelchairs and stuff. And so one of her sitters came with us to the movie. And she sat next to Mom to help her, and we sat a little above her. But I was watching her during the movie, and she, I mean, she was glue. She never made a move. I figured, because I was kind of worried.

I thought because she could make it through this two-hour movie. It's a documentary. Well, that's the same problem with your kids. That's what I was saying. You have to get in that mood. Exactly. So I go down afterwards. I said, well, mom, what do you think?

She said, God bless America. She started singing the Nashville. And she was so excited. She was like a kid. She loved it. Tom Selleck is. the voiceover on it. And she said, was that Magnum P.I?

I mean, it's funny how things she will remember. She brought it back. Yeah. But it was excellent and took her home. I said, well, Mom, did you have fun? She had fun. And you're right. And she was just as excited.

We could do that every night. Yeah. And she would love it. Well, that's kind of helped me learn how to navigate that. Which, we need some music for, I got some throwbacks for. Did y'all ever figure out the quote from the movie? with my dad. If you don't know by now,

I mean, you missed it. Yeah, I'm not even sure the movie. Well, you told me, so I won't guess. So it was Project. Hell Mary. Hell Mary. And I said, that was a quote. So did you, have you watched the movie yet, Zah?

I did. I watched it two nights ago. Did you find, did you see the quote? That's what I want to know. When the Rock said, happy, happy, happy. Yep. Yep. Yeah.

Do you think that was just a coincidence? Hmm. Everybody happy, happy, happy, happy. And even said it like that, like that. Yep. He did say everybody happy, happy, happy. Yeah, I mean, I think we need to talk to it. I just thought with all the Jesus stuff, I just thought that was a sign.

So I didn't say it was a direct quote, but I just liked. I like that. Even though the saying is universally accepted as being that. That's what AI said. But I think it's actually, the problem is that he didn't just say happy, happy, happy. I think he said everybody happy, happy, happy. Yeah. Which is the, that's more.

How many times have you heard my dad? Look, they show, in the episode, the new revival, when they honored dad, they showed that little rapid run eclipse of him saying it. I didn't know he said it so many times in the original show because I just remembered a couple of times. He says it like 20 times. He went a decade where that was said hundreds of times. Yeah, yeah.

That was his mantra. Yeah, yeah. And he said it like that. And it was usually kind of like, yeah, he would like attribute it to mom or somebody. Oh, yeah, Ms. Kay. She's running around happy, happy, happy, happy. So Jill's being, she's gotten into tennis and says she said,

you need to come play tennis with me on Sunday after church. I actually ended up playing pickleball with a bunch of guys. And I'm going to tell you some, it's hot. So I pulled out my cure. I don't know if you guys are taking care of your hydration. But it's a real deal when you get our age. You got to stay hydrated out.

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And if you're not sure which one to try, we'll grab the variety pack and see which flavors that you like. Me personally, I like the peach flavor. Curehydrate is officially in Target now as well, so we're super excited. about that. I stocked up last week. And I'm not ashamed to say that I'm already thinking about my next restock. Find it at your local target or get 20% off at curehydration.com with our code unashamed. That's curehydration.com code unashamed.

We always had one significant saying. So that one was right after now we cook them with peanut oil. Yeah, that was a good. That one went on for, you know, four, five years. But that even changed because. Because when I was younger, and you may even remember this, he would say, now we're cooking with butane. You remember that? And then he upgraded to peanut.

We could never afford peanut up. Well, right. Well, once he started making some money, he said, we're moving up to the peanut oil. Because he always said that every time they'd say, well, Phil, what's changed about your life? You know, now that you're famous and, you know, you've made money now and all this. He'd say, the menu. That's the menu. The menu.

The menu. We went from hot dogs. We're talking weaners and hamburgers to filet mignon steaks. Ribby. Ribis. Y'all heard the old song. Maybe I hadn't heard it, but it's an old country song called We're Not the Jet Set. We're the old Chevrolet set.

And then it's basically talking about kind of the life we live. And it's like our steak and martini is a draft beer and weanies. and then everything's like it. I mean, I would never have the articulation or the memory to have that branded on my brain. I would try to sing it. I want to sing that. I like the song. If I try to sing that song, I would offend people because I would get all the words wrong

and it would turn out into something sinister. I think George Jones sang it. I'm pretty sure George Jones sing the song. I got to look that up because now it makes me want to hear. Even though I went to a George Jones. concert one time, which was crazy. I just never have been into that. I went to one of his concerts in New Orleans, and it was funny because... Is this BJ? Yeah, this is BJ. I was still working on the testimony, but he was, because it was at a bar, but he had no-showed this venue like earlier,

and so this is him having to come back and fulfill the contract. And you could tell because he did not want to be there. Like, you know, he didn't show up the first time. So, but I guess some lawyer forced him to come. And he just wasn't happy and you could tell and he was griping about the place that he was at. And he sang like six songs and then just walked off. George Jones and Tammy Wynette, 1973. Here's how the song starts. By a fountain in Rome, I fell in love with you. And a small cafe in Athens, you said you'd love me too. And it was April in Paris when I first held you close to me. Rome, Georgia, Athens, Texas, and Paris, Tennessee.

So it's a whole kind of, it's pretty funny. Oh, that's funny. Yeah, it's good stuff. You read some of these old songs, and you think, well, what were they ingesting to come up with such songs? I know. Well, I don't know. Did you ever see that there was a mini-series about them?

And Lisa and I watched it. I think it's called George and Tammy. Because I've always been interested. George Jones was always, our granny loved Georgia. Remember how much she loved George John? And she had records and would play them. So I grew up hearing a lot of his music.

But man, you talk about volatile. I mean, their relationship, it was something. I mean, if the movie's accurate. Well, there may have been some booze involved. Oh, there was a lot of booze. And he was one of those kind of drunks. When he got to the point, like, he would go crazy drunk. He was a crazy drunk.

He would do, I mean, he'd shotguns shooting around the house. I mean, just crazy, crazy stuff. If all that's true. There's a certain singers that when I listen to them, they kind of transport me back to, like, my childhood, like Granny and Paul. And he's one of them. And I don't know why he's one of them, but he is.

She loved Loretta Lynn, too. Yeah, Loretta Lynn. Conway Twitty's one. It's like a, they're tapping into like a nostalgic, like, memory of my childhood, how we grew up. And, you know, this is, but anyways. Do you remember, Jay's, I don't know if you're old enough to remember, but there's some of those songs from the like 72, 73. Well, this era, Zach's talking about that used to be on the jukebox at the bar,

and they would play. And they'll, like when I hear it today, if I'm listening to like Old Country or whatever, they call it, what do they call it, Rebel Country or whatever, when I hear that song, it just takes me right back into that bar room. because Jason and I would go in. They would be cleaning up and stuff, and we would play shuffleboard and pinball. Well, you know, the one your mom brought up

when we were doing the blind was one called Satin Sheets. Yeah. She said that's the one song she remembers just on repeat by 10. That was one. Yeah. Yeah, when we watched the blind, I remember that old jukebox because I'd go out of any money that I had stolen from whoever. as a kid.

I mean, look, we weren't raised by Christian prayers. We were all before Jesus at this point. Yeah. I mean, if it was capable of being a center at five years old, I was definitely because you are what you're around. And this

wasn't a good environment for kids. But we were out there. And I'd play songs at that jukebox. So you were like three, four, five years old during this era, so you were very young. But these memories are there, music.

Well, they're there, and they say, you know, you're not supposed to remember, but it was so graphic. I guess it was. And so I just can't get them out of my head. So you're three to five, are you running around the bar at three to five? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, we, we remember my dad. We live there, Zah.

I remember my dad standing there with, he had, he bought him a, like an old Western gun belt. Yeah, two pistols on us. These aren't like play guns. And I was just. just looking like, oh, my dad's crazy. And they would do, dad would do, he would do arm wrestling

and there was a picnic table out back. And he would go out there and these big old pulpwood drivers and, of course, they would be drunk and he wasn't. Yeah, he wouldn't drink while he was there because he was making money. He would drink later. But he would go out there and, I mean, these guys had like arms

that look like, you know, small sapling pines. I mean, these guys are hard men. and they would think they could take him, and they never did. He was undefeated. Well, just all the fights, you know, the only one I remember specifically was a fellow that had a two-by-four. And my dad took that tube of four away from him and popped him, where he just knocked him out in like a blink of an eye. He was so quick. It reminded me that Raiders of the Lost Ark seeing when the guy come out with his sword, you know, and he just, boom.

It's like, well, that died. everybody was hollering and cheering and I was thinking my dad you know something's fixed to happen to you you never forget mom had this little white Volkswagen and we pulled in one night from some place we had been and it's me and jace and Willie was the little baby and we pulled into the bar and they were all out front and we saw them all kind of gathered in a circle and dad's in the middle just waylaying some person I mean it's like just that's the way life was but it was always so weird because I never I didn't know the concept of the police at that age, I just

always remembered that every night ended with flashing lights. And I thought it was so cool. I thought every night they get together and it's a light show. Like at the end of a wedding when they put the sparklers in the day, you're right.

I would look out of the window and I was like there's the flashing light. They do this every time. I guess mom and dad are coming home. It must have been bad because I did extensive interviews with the family and everybody when we were writing the script. And so after we had written everything, I think we'd already filmed the film. And I'm sitting down with your dad.

And he's like, and he started telling me another story. And it was the most incredible story. He said, he was driving down the road with the owner of the bar, I guess who owned the actual real estate that he was leasing from. Right. Because dad just ran it. Yeah, he just ran. He's like, yeah, we're sitting there. And he said, I don't know out of nowhere.

We kind of get in an argument. And he said, I'm driving. And he said, he pulls out a gun, a pistol. And he's like reenacting the scene. And he's like holding the pistol by his belly. And he said, the guy like turns to me and he shoots me, like, fires it right at my head. He said, the bullet grazes my nose and it goes out the window. And he said, I mean, like I said, I was bleeding.

And he said, so I said, what did you do? He said, well, I took my hand and I hammer-fisted him right in the face. And then I got the door, his door open, and I took my leg, my right leg, and I basically kicked him out of the car while he's going down the road. And I'm like, listening to this. And I'm like, how did this story not make it in the original interview? He said, how am I? Because that was very, very cinematic.

exactly. That's what they call a cinematic moment. I was so mad. I was like, that is a scene. And I'm just pictured it in my mind as he's talking about it. Then it becomes rated R, which that was the biggest challenge. Kind of what the Old Testament is not making it rated R because look, people, they do ghastly things, you know? Oh, yeah. So, Zach, you like roller coasters? No, I don't like roller coasters, actually. You know, I don't either. And yet, I spent about a decade riding. the roller coaster of weight loss and weight gain. And so, you know, you try the fads. These days it's the GLP one shots. And they help with the appetite. The problem is they're not dealing with

the real situation that's going on. Ph.D. can teach you about your body, help your body work with you instead of against you. Here's, if you're watching this on YouTube, here's a picture of me at the beginning of my journey, which now is almost a year and a half ago. 80 pounds later, feeling much better, obviously, much healthier. Off the meds that I was on, off my CPAP machine, able to do a lot more with my grandkids can exercise now and feel good about it. So if you've been wanting to get off the roller coaster, I'm telling you, now is the time. It's never too early to start.

Right now, when you call and mention Al Robertson, you'll get two free weeks, and they'll pay for the cost of your food, which is a $1,500 value. Call 864-6-44-1900. That's 864-6-4-6-4-4-4-1-1-1-1. 4-1900 or go to my PhD weight loss.com because the goal isn't to lose weight once is to never have to start over again. So call them 864-644-1900 or go to my PhD weight loss.com. And look, we it was funny, Zach, because you think about it like there was obviously a lot of bad stuff going on people drinking the fights and all that, but the people were very friendly to us.

Nothing bad ever happened to me. No, me either. I don't know how. I don't either. It wasn't like, I don't know if it's a different error. They just didn't come there, but they viewed us as just Phil's kids. And one thing is nobody would ever mess with us. Well, that's true.

They were afraid of him, you know. You got this crazy lunatic going around with two pistols. I mean, it wasn't like cheers. It wasn't like that kind of bar. It was definitely a bar where people came to get drunk. But they were very kind of us. Nobody ever mistreated me at all. Yeah.

I mean, I think it's a good segment. way to, I've been thinking a lot about this trials and temptations where in the Lord's Prayer, because that's, I mean, I don't know if we want to read the section that talks about it, but it just made me kind of go down a rabbit hole of

because it's really hard to wrap your head around because the word in the Greek is so close to each other. And so you have like most scholars, when they read the most scholars that I looked at,

when they read the sermon on the mount, they have the testing. They say where it says, when he says the prayer in chapter six, when he says, lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. So when you have that as tempting, I mean, not testing, people tend to think from a scholarly view, well, God tests us all the time. I mean, you go back to the, even the garden. Well, look, it's basically a test.

Don't eat of that tree in the middle of the garden. And in the intertwining of it, you're correct, is temptation is there because the evil one's there. Right. So I'll tell you what I think. Yeah. And y'all can, I'd love to hear what y'all have to say. So on the Bible project, because they're going through the sermon on the Mount in a year,

their take was interesting. And I'm not sure how I feel about it, but I thought, okay, this at least makes sense. So are they, is that their take because it's the only thing that really makes sense? Or is that actually what it says, you know, because they were using it as testing. But they're like, they kind of equated it to Jesus when he, he, it's kind of like when he prayed the same thing and said, if there's any other way. So it's like, keep me from this test, but the test is coming. You know, they're viewing it like you're being honest in your prayer.

So if it is, if the idea is more with the English word test, then, okay, you're being honest. I don't want, nobody likes to go through trial. So in your prayer, we constantly are praying for the good things to happen. We're like, oh, protect us, keep us from this. But their point was, but when the test comes, because it's coming because you go from Genesis, even think of Moses and the testing of the people going through the wilderness and all this. You think about Jesus being tempted. Yeah.

Of course, they're using tests there also, you know. but what is that connection, but deliver us from the evil one? Because when the test happens, then that's where the evil one shows up in the trial. And he offers you an alternative, which is exactly what happened in the garden. Same thing happened on the cross. The evil powers come, but he's like, deliver us from the evil one. That's why Jesus ultimately said, but not my will, but yours be done. It kind of makes a little more sense when you're looking at it, that the evil one uses our trials

and the bad things that happened, to then tempt you. That's why James says, God doesn't tempt you to do evil. But now he'll test you. And that's why you see these things all over the place. And to your point, it's exactly what happens with Jesus in the wilderness. Remember, that happens when he is baptized. And we have that moment, you know, and we see the Holy Spirit descend, and he's about to begin the ministry.

And the Bible clearly says he went into the, wilderness to be tested. He didn't eat. And look, how did he get there? Yeah. The Holy Spirit carried into the wilderness. Exactly. So what happened to this? God doesn't tempt you. So that's what they're saying to wrap your head around it. God's going to give you the test. And he wants you to pass. Oh, yeah. Because it is going to produce character. It is, you overcoming and all this. But there's always going to be an element of the dark side of the world, the fallen angel, the spiritual forces of evil, that they're going to use your most vulnerable time to say, hey, do it this way, which is exactly what the evil one did in the garden.

They made this point biblically, I thought fascinating, because it's interesting that we went to Jesus being tested by the evil one. And so he makes a statement, which in the literal Greek language, he basically says, get away from me, tells that to the, and when I heard that, I thought of that old talk about triggering moments. I thought about that Clint Eastwood movie. I don't know what the name of it is. It's one of them Spaghetti Westerns, but he was sitting in the judge's chair, and this old boy walked in, and he said, get out of here. It's right at the end of the movie, you know, and always... That was Joe, Joe Kid. Yeah, I think it was Joe Kid. But that same phrase is used when Matthew 16,

when Jesus said, who do you say I am? You're the Christ's son of the living God. Oh, Peter, this was given to you by God. This is the rock I'm going to build my church. Seven or eight verses later, Jesus says, now, I'm going to die and be buried and raised. He's like, no. And it's the same exact phrase that Jesus used.

It doesn't appear that way in English. When he says, get behind me, Satan. He's basically saying, get out of here. That's right. Because there's the evil one. So this is the trial that Jesus has to undergo. He's going to die. Well, Peter hears that thing.

Oh, no. You're not going through that. And then Jesus is like, deliver us from the evil. Get out of here. Well, and it's got to be so galling to Jesus. Because he also knows Peter is going to deny him three times the same night. So he sees that and he's like, come on, man. This helps me, though, when you're going through a trial,

you realize, okay, God is doing this for my good. But there's an element always of temptation that's going to arise in this from the evil because that's where he makes him and his forces. But I love the way you put them together. And we started this conversation talking about the bar setting. But if you think about it, you see both present there. Dad was being tempted to, because he's living a lifestyle that where this sounded like a good idea to him to expose his family.

So for him it was temptation. The evil one was there. But for us and for mom, it was just a giant test. Can we stay together? Can we survive? Yeah. It's not a test in the sense of, I'm going to give you the questions and see if you pass or not.

I think it's a testing that's aimed. Here's the big difference between God testing and Satan tempting. God's testing, and this is the text here, God's testing is meant for your maturation. It has an intention and purpose. He wants you to live out. So it's like I'm testing this. I'm refining the gold.

I'm burning off the impurities. Satan's tempting is to destroy you. It's to kill you and to not bring you to your full maturity. It's actually the opposite. That's the big difference. And both of those things can be happening simultaneously in the same event that's happened. in any trial.

Both things can be possible. So when you read this passage in James 1, it has that word all throughout it, like this let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete. That's that same phrase. We talked about in the previous podcast of our telos, our teleology, God has an end for you.

That's the whole thing I said, you can't brush your teeth with a coffee mug. So what the testing is to show you, this is not, no, no, no, that's not going to work. That's not going to work. And after you go through that, yeah, you may, like, you let your kids do that sometimes. I let my kids go through certain trials. And I say, I wouldn't do that. Don't do that.

That's a bad move. And then they keep belligerently trying to do it. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to give you just enough rope, not to completely hang yourself, but at least experience the little bit of the consequences of you being left to yourself. And then if they're smart and the testing goes as I plan, then eventually they're just going to trust me. And they're just not going to move on those things. But sometimes you've got to let them,

you got to let them try it because they're not going to believe you otherwise. You know what I'm saying? I have taken on the biggest, most ambitious landscaping project of my life this year. I don't know about you. What have you got into? Because your yard was looking mighty nice last time I saw it. Well, it's not looking quite as nice as when you were there. We had the ice apocalypse, which took a lot of my shrubs and trees out, so we're having to do a little bit of a remodel ourselves.

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time to plant. Let's grow together. Use Unashamed to save the day. Offers valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply. Back to the book of Job, when we see the kind of interaction between the evil one and the Almighty, you see a situation here. Job was exposed to try to that were beyond his control. Like he couldn't do anything about his kids got killed. His famine happens and everything or circumstances. That's a great example of what we're talking about. Yeah, it put him in that position.

The temptation was, he only had one temptation from the evil one is curse God and die. That was the one thing he could control. And so I've always seen that as being a distinct difference between a trial and a temptation, is that temptation is something you can control and either do or not do. trials are typically things that are happening to you. And then you have to figure out, can I muster, can I get through this? And that's exactly what happened in his life. And the same thing happens to us.

And the pro James, that's why James brings it up in verse 11 in chapter 5. He says, as you know, we count as blessing those who have persevered. And he says what you just said, you have heard of Job's perseverance. Yeah. And have seen what the Lord finally brought about. The Lord is full of compassion and mercy. So even James is, after this argument is kind of fleshed out, he's going back and saying, hey, like, remember Job? Yeah, remember that.

What's the point? The Lord is merciful. The Lord has compassion. So whatever trial you're going through, on the Lord's side, on his end of it, it's compassion and mercy. And you know what I love about that too, Zach, is that, because a lot of people say, well, you know, Joe's not a real book. It's an allegory, you know, about suffering. And I'm like, no, because James referenced that he was a real guy. They went through the real thing.

Well, that's why we're bringing this up. And the problem with this whole conversation is the translation from Greek to Hebrew, from Greek to English. And our current English words are not depicting exactly. Yeah, it's tough. And that, so the reason I'm saying this is because Zach keeps bringing up this teleos, which they're in that Bible project series that I'm listening to, that comes up a lot because they'll do. about 10 podcasts and then they'll have a Q&A. What was fascinating is one of those Q&As,

he said the number one question we're getting, and they have the actual person give the question, so it's recorded, you know, is I found this fascinating. One of the frequent questions that they were getting was at the end of the sermon on the mount, it's just a little simple verse. And most of these people who are asking the, his questions were young people.

Yeah. Because they're reading this verse at the end of the sermon on the Mount. Let's see. Where does he say that? Where he says, be perfect. Well, it's at the end of the chapter five. Talking about love your enemies and talk about that deal about adultery and divorce and oaths and eye for an eye. Remember the murder and anger, fulfillment of the law, all this.

And then he gets down and says, be perfect, therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect. So as they're running these questions, and they ran more than one that said the same thing. They're like, reading this, why would he say this? Because that's not attainable. They all had the same vibe like, oh, this has been a great study that you are doing. But why would Jesus say something that can't be done?

You can't be perfect. So the first thing he said, he's like, well, that word, in Greek, telios, because that's the word. It's the same one. He said, this was his line, does it mean what you think our current English word for perfect means? Yeah. And so, and he read a lot, like, we've done that on a podcast before. Well, we, I think we looked up every one of them.

We do. And so Missy and I was listening this on our way, on our double date. And I was listening to that episode, and I was like, because I was nervous about where he was going with answering this question. Because what I've noticed is when that word appears, love is close by. Because when you think about who God is, God being loved, you think about the sermon on the Mount, fulfilling the law. He leads to this statement where we were talking about Phil having his catchphrase statements.

Well, Jesus, when he got to talking about the law, his catchphrase statement was love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, love your neighbor as yourself. Because love is the fulfillment of the law, and God is love. He's going in what's behind the laws. And so when you start thinking about being like God in your life, well, how are you going to do that? Well, love's got to be at the top of the list. Exactly.

Because that's the whole motivating factor for why we're here. You think, well, why did God create us? What was the law intended to do? He wants you to love people. Yeah. He wants you to love him. So I think that changes your dynamic in why he said that. Like, because Zach just mentioned that.

We tend to think, oh, I got to get everything. Exactly right. Which is why a lot of people think God is unloving and don't want to believe him because they're like, well, he wants me to be perfect and I can't be perfect. He hates me. Most of us, our whole lives, we've interpreted the word perfect as flawless, and that's actually not to your point. Here's the picture. This is a major shift in the way we interpret the Bible, by the way, is if you understand that what's in it for us is much more connected to teleology, to telos or to teleosis, that framework, that what that actually means is that it's saying God wants you to live in reality.

and what Satan wants to do, he wants you to live in unreality. And that's the thing. And so where you tell you, what's Satan's tell us? What's his design and tent purpose for us? It's confusion, its accusations,

and ultimately it's death. And so the other side of that, what is God? What is this tell us, God's is revelation, God's is endurance and perseverance, and God's is in the end is life. So when you look at the first,

or the temptation you mentioned about Job, there's actually a second part of the temptation. The temptation was curse God from his wife. Here's the temptation. Curse God and what? And die. So you see even see it in the temptation. He's like, just you want to die.

You don't want this. You don't want to live. Curse God and die. That's the telos of Satan. And the telos of God is praise him and live. And those are the two, that's the worst. that's the world. That is what we are faced with right there. And if you go the route of the lie, then that means it's unreality and you will die. If you go the route of truth, that is reality,

and that means that you will have life and have it abundantly. Yeah, I see that when it comes to baptism. In Romans 6, when Paul called it a death, you died. And you see the evil one take the same concept. Because how many times did Jesus say, you want to follow me? you know, lose your life and you'll save it. Yeah. What does he mean? Lose my life. Right.

Well, you want me to die? Yeah. He's like, well, sort of. Yeah. Because even Jesus was baptized. What was he doing? It was a death to what he wanted to do and a total reliance on the father, even though he is the father.

I mean, that gets a little complex. But I'm saying the evil one on the other side, that's why you see suicide. because it's he's promising them relief through death. And I thought about that when Zach said that. And that may have been what Mrs. Job was intimated to her husband. Maybe you're just better off taking your own life. Because you see the picture of that. We mentioned Peter earlier days.

I mean, he denied Jesus on the night of his crucifixion. Judas betrayed Jesus. And what was the difference? Judas cursed God. and took his own life a day later. Peter waited three days, and Jesus came back. And that changes. Same trial.

Same trial. Different result. We'll see what happened. Well, one believed in the telos of Satan, and so he killed himself. He cursed God, and he killed himself. And he killed himself. Done. He died.

The other one, repented, praise God, and then wrote some of the New Testament and was very intramal. And priest's the first sermon to the Jews and the Gentiles. That's like, yeah. That's why it makes sense when you get to like Hebrews 4, where it says talking about trials and temptations, when it says, therefore, since we have a great high priest who's gone through the heavens, Jesus, the son of God, for we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses. Well, what are we talking about? We're talking about the trials that are going to come our way and then the temptations from those trials. because then it says, but we have one who has been tempted or tested in every way, because the reason they're so close to each other is because the temptation is going to come from the testing.

Yet just as we are, but then it goes to the temptation part, yet was without sin. Every moment, even going back to the wilderness where he was tempted by the evil one, but that happened throughout the process, which is why at the end he's saying, take this cup from me. Because people are like, why is that happening? Because it's a trial that's leading to temptation, but they're two different entities. You have, and that's why he said, even, remember when he said, this is the hour where darkness rains in this moment, they think they're winning by my death.

Of course, he didn't elaborate because he's actually using that to claim victory over them because he's coming back. Oh, yeah. And so then it says, let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. But it also makes sense of where he went to two chapters later, and I wanted to read this. you remember the real controversial paragraph in Hebrew 6 where it's like it's impossible for those who have been enlightened who have tasted the heavenly gift who have shared in the word of God

the powers of coming age if they fall away to be brought back to repentance because to their loss they're crucifying the son of God all over again and without getting into that debate again which we've done in past podcast. What I find fascinating because I think a paragraph later

It goes in with what we're talking about in James. He says, even though this is verse 9 of Hebrew 6, we speak like this, dear friends, we are confident of better things in your case, things that accompany salvation. God is not unjust. He will not forget. And he starts talking about your work and your love that you have shown him as you've helped his people and continue to help them. we want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end in order to make your hope sure.

We do not want you to become lazy. Well, this sounds a lot like James. But to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised. And he's kind of dealing with all this how you're responding to trials, which in the controversial section, obviously some trials have come their way and they're all of a sudden abandoning all these things that saved them and so I think he revisits it there

which is never part of the argument but it should be because I think it's James's point he's like consider pure joy when you face trials because this is the thing even though it's rough these are the things that's going to produce it's going to produce a perseverance a work and a love for people that you don't care what happens we're going to stick to the plan

no matter how difficult it becomes. And I love that you were talking about that linking it back to Romans 6 because the idea is, and Jesus, again, I think he showed us the example of his, when he was baptized, the idea that the Holy Spirit's presence becomes a game changer for everybody. And it's the same thing that happens with us.

That's why we're resurrected, literally, into this new life. Because Jesus didn't go through the sermon on the Mount to give us something we couldn't do. That's not why it was the point of that. But everybody asked the wrong questions about, look, the Q&A that I listened, there was about three of them,

and I've listened to them all, and you're just like, you're missing. The very question that you're at, like, look, let me just give you a few, and you'll see what I'm talking about. It's like the one about the oaths, because James gets in that. Don't swear by anything, basically.

And you're like, why is he making it such a big deal? Because you're supposed to be trusting God. And it's making you look like you're not a man of integrity. It's like we do it by saying, I'll swear on my mother's gray. When somebody says that, he's probably, you know, full of bull. Because it's like, why are you trying to convince me? You're going to your mom's grave to say that what you're saying is true.

God doesn't like that. No. So here's a question that they were getting. They were like, was it, is it wrong? to put your hand on the Bible, like when you go to the courtroom and say, I'm swear I'm telling the truth. Because technically, you see why they're asking that. But they're wanting just a hard, fast rule.

And I remember when I was in a bass tournament, caught a big bass, and they're like, you're going to take a lie detector test. I was like, what? Are you serious? Well, it wasn't a lie detector test. I thought they were going to hook me up to a machine. This guy gets me in a trailer at the boat. hands me a cross

and wants me to hold it. It's just a wooden cross. And he starts asking me spiritual questions. To get to that fish. Yeah. For me to say, did I catch the fish? And I thought, if I would have been more familiar with a sermon on the mouth,

I would have rebuked it. Because I thought, you're causing me to use this in a way. I mean, I was just, I think I've shared that story before. I've never heard that story. Oh, Al, I walked out of there and I said, I'll never fish this tournament. I didn't do anything wrong, caught a big fish.

And I got some guy getting down into my soul, making me hold a wooden cross and say, did you catch that fish? And it wasn't just did I catch the fish. He went through every rule in the manual, but you couldn't get out of a boat. You can't get out of your boat because they don't want you walking to some pond. Yeah. You know. And so then he's like, at any time, did your foot touch land during the six hours of the tournament? I never knew fishing tournaments were so intense.

Well, while I'm holding the cross, I said, well. As if that would make the difference. I'm going to be honest. When we, you know, got out of the, when we launched the boat and I pulled up, I actually touched land and pushed that boat back. I said, then we actually got in shallow water, and I had to get my foot out and push off a tree. And he's like, I think that was probably okay. Now, people, what's funny about the story? The reason I'm laughing because it's not funny, actually, because there are people that live out their spiritual walk with what you just described.

Not even at church. I was in a past tournament. I mean, it makes you sad. They're going to give me 300. because I got a big bass, and I have to go through this. It wasn't worth it. And I didn't even break the law. Now, I think that's the big difference in how we need to shift the way we understand the

gospel and read the scriptures. So when you mentioned that passage in Hebrews about Christ, Jesus being tempted in every way like we were tempted, like this is what I think the book of James is getting at. But it says he didn't fall. Jesus didn't succumb to the temptation. He was tempted like us. But the question is why? Why did Jesus not sin even though he was externally tempted, not by God, but by Satan in every way.

And he was able to say, no, I'm not going to participate in that lie. And the reason why Christ was able to do that is because there was inside of the Son of God as a human, there was no perversion or there was no distorted or disordered desire in him. So you go back to James. So why do we sin? Christ didn't sin when he's tempted. We do sin when we're tempted. Why? Well, James tells us, each one is dragged away and enticed by his own evil desire. See, we do have disordered desires. We do have perverted desires. We do have thwarted intentions and things that aren't.

What does that mean? It just means that we want things that aren't real. That's all that means. To have a distorted desire means you want something that's not reality. And so what you do, is you have to change your perception. This is Romans chapter one. You have to start to change your perception of reality so that you pretend and convince yourself that this is the way the world really is. This is a whole gender movement.

I mean, we're going to look back on that in history and say that was the dumbest thing ever. How do those people ever believe that? Well, you don't. You have to shift your perception in a way where you're pretending that you're manipulating and bending reality to your will. The truth is, though, you're not. You're not. And that's why the Bible says

that it's futile thinking. It's futile thinking when they became darkened in their understanding. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie. It's the weight. We cannot bear the weight of unreality as humans. And so the answer is, I need to repent for trying to be the author of a reality I never really could construct in the first place. And I need to remember and confess that I'm actually the creature. He's the creator, so I'm going to come underneath the good rule and reign of our Heavenly Father. And when I do that, I actually live in reality. And the end result of that is life and life abundantly.

And that happens with three S's. It happens with surrender. It happens with the Holy Spirit that then comes into your life. Then it happens with this sanctifying life that comes as a result. So when you're saying, can it be done? Yes. But not unless you first. surrendered.

Oh, man. Those are good words to end on. They're great words to end on. So we'll pick it up here next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.