Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1377 | The Robertsons Confront the Church’s Uncomfortable Obsession with Wealth

Episode Date: July 15, 2026

The Robertson family may have stumbled onto a surprisingly simple secret to a long, healthy life, and Jase, Al, and Zach compare the routines that have kept generations of their family going strong. The guys also reflect on a military veteran who searched for truth in Islam before finding peace in Jesus, then turn to James 2 for a hard look at favoritism, wealth, and celebrity culture inside the church. They challenge every Christian to reflect on how they treat others, and dig into why even correct theology becomes empty noise when it is separated from the character of Jesus. In this episode: James 1:4; James 1:27; James 2:1–26; Deuteronomy 6; Exodus 20; Genesis 1:26–28; Genesis 9; Genesis 10–11; Joel 2:28; Acts 2:5–17; Acts 15; 1 Corinthians 1:26–31; John 5; Matthew 5–7 “Unashamed” Episode 1377 is sponsored by: https://homechef.com/unashamed — Get 50% off and free shipping on your first box plus free dessert for life! curehydration.com/unashamed — Get 20% off your first order with promo code UNASHAMED https://bravebooks.com/unashamed — Use code UNASHAMED for 20% off your order! https://myphdweightloss.com — Find out how Al lost 80+ pounds. Visit the website or call 864-644-1900 and mention "Al Robertson" to get 2 weeks free in the program! http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/ — Sign up now for free, and join the Unashamed hosts every Friday for Unashamed Academy Powered by Hillsdale College Listen to Not Yet Now with Zach Dasher on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or anywhere you get podcasts. Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/at-home-with-phil-robertson/id1835224621 Chapters 00:00 Zach’s Yawning Sparks a Debate over Naps 05:09 Al’s Fourth of July Shrimp Boil Nearly Falls Apart 08:20 The Robertson’s Best Leftover Recipe 13:12 A Veteran’s Journey from Islam to Jesus 17:04 James 2 Confronts Favoritism in the Church 22:27 Loving Jesus Must Change How We Treat People 28:41 The Church’s Attraction to Wealth & Influence 33:44 Kingdom-Bound Wealth & Resources 38:37 Babel & God’s Plan to Unite the Nations 42:40 Mercy Triumphs over Judgment 50:01 Faith Without Love Is Just Babbling — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashame. Sacks got his yawns all done. So let me get them out. Stretch the arms out right before we started recording us. Let me get the yawn out. Which we appreciate because when we're making a say of point in the podcast is when you've been yawning in the past. That's what throws us off.

So thank you, Zach. There are social subtleties that are being. respectful to other people, which is exactly where we are at in James too, which this was a bigger picture because it's like all about Jesus, all about Jesus, and then the way you treat people or just the ignoring people around you, that doesn't fit with the living like Jesus narrative. You see? Yeah. That's why I said, if we're doing a podcast, three guys and in the middle of a point, one of the

guys is yawning. He's not, no, wait a minute. He's not necessarily ignoring the people around him. He could just be tired because he's trying to raise a family. And he's sacrificing his life for his children and working hard, Jason.

But why are we all doing that? This is really, you're getting down to the root of the problem in human society. What's that? Well, it's like all the Bible studies I've ever had. Most people who are just

like living in a life of sin, they had the same excuse. They're like, well, you don't understand. I have a different, things are different to me. And I'm like, no, no. We all. There's a definition you should look up. It's called gaslighting. And you're gaslighting right now, but I'm not going to fall into it.

See, I don't know what that means because when I hear gaslighting, that is not a good thing to do. because no, I mean, that's clever. What you're doing is a sign of brilliance. I will say that, but it's gaslighting nonetheless. But you know what? I'm well-rested the day. I went to bed early, although when we came back from D.C.,

I literally, I didn't go to bed until 1.30 because the show didn't in and Jill was late getting in with her and good boys did all that. And I mean, the fireworks going off. We went to bed at 1.30, woke up at 3.30 to get back to the. the airport, flew it directly into Charlotte, drove an hour and a half back to the house, took a shower, and went to church, Jill talked about. I didn't preach that Sunday. That was good. But we were, so I am kind of coming out of a two-day whirlwind. How is that? What you just described, I'd do that every, I'd say 10 days, minimum.

You do that 10 days? Every 10 days of a year, I have that schedule. And you talk, and you take a nap. I know you do. I just don't take a nap. So that's why you don't yawn because you get to take naps. I don't get to take naps. Zach, do us in favor and take a nap. I would love it. 30 minutes.

Just go way down and take a nap. You know when you're a kid and you're like in elementary school and they make our daycare, they make you take the naps and everybody's so mad. When I try to put my daughter down for a nap, she just like bites it with tooth and nail. If somebody came to me and said, I want you to go take a two-hour nap. I do not come out of that room until you've gotten a good nap. I would be like, are you kidding me? Like this is you, like I'm being four.

That would be the greatest gift. Well, I just gave it to you. But not two hours. That's too long. Yeah. How long do you that for? 30 minutes to an hour. Yeah, an hour's your max.

Hours max. Because then you feel worse. Ow, did you nap like Jason? No, not regular. But when I get to my limit, so a lot of times it'll come on a Sunday. If I've had a week of podcast and I preach, I just hit the wall and then I have to get that

45 minutes. 45 minutes is about the number for me. Are you on to be in the bed? Taking a nap? Oh yeah. I'll go to bed. I actually do it in fulfillment of the spirit of keeping the Sabbath.

It's just naps because if you add up the times because some days I'll take two naps. You know, 30 minutes at time. Dad napped every day and for that reason. He was like, you need this. You need this time. So he would eat lunch and then he would take about an hour nap and then he would go back out and work.

That's the motto I go with. I do it. I would say six out of seven days at least, and, you know, on average, almost seven. My grandfather took a nap every day, and he left a 90. Well, there you go. And he was in great shape. What got him was the COVID. But he probably would have gone on to live.

I mean, he was driving his own car, doing his own life. Like, no, nobody helping him fully function on his own at 90 years. old. Very healthy. He took a nap every day. He probably would have gone to be 100 without the COVID. Yeah.

So maybe there's something to it. Naps are healthy. So you mentioned gas lighting. It made me think about so when we had a group of people over here at our house and I was doing a shrimp bowl because now that's kind of Stone taught me how to do shrimp boils. And that's kind of my go-to when we have a large group of people coming. And Jason, I mentioned we had a friend of ours over and his family.

And so I'll go out to get my light up my, you know, a cooker for my shrimp bowl. Well, it won't light. And then I hooked up another. You know, I got like four tanks of butane around here. I went purposely and got a couple filled. Nothing. Won't work. What's, you know, we're on, it's the 4th of July.

What's, what's, there's nothing to open. What am I going to do here? There's no plan B. I got 12 pounds of shrimp. I got all my stuff cut up. I'm ready to get the part. already started, the company is on the way. So I call a friend of my, you always got to have somebody that knows how to fix things, because I'm not very good at fixing things. I'm good at

breaking things. I'm like, your son's does that. And so I call up my friend Pete, who is an engineer, he can do anything. I said, Pete, you got to get over here because I got a problem. I can't get fire going to the deal here, you know, and all I know how to do is, you know, stick a lighter to it and turn it on. And so he comes over. And I mean, he said, you got tools. I said, well, let's go look. So I pull out of toolbox. I had enough tools.

And he literally takes everything apart, which is not a lot. But he takes it all apart, figures out the problem. Within 10 minutes, we got blue flame going. Now we got the shrimp bowl kicking off and the party started. But you have to have somebody in your sphere that knows how to fix things. You got to have a guy. And you got to have a guy. I've got a guy that showed up at my last shrimp bowl.

As a matter of fact, it was actually a, was it shrimp? We did shrimp, yeah. Chase, you met him. Is it your house? I brought my guy in with me. Oh, yeah, when you all were in Nashville for the car fish. Oh, yeah. And you know what's funny about that?

We had an issue. There was a leak in the gas tank. Chase's equipment was faulty. And we could then smell the gas. He said, oh, we got a leak. So we had to do, I forgot how he fixed it. He did something that fixed it. But, yeah, we had to get out there.

First of all, that was my son's equipment. It wasn't personal. It wasn't personal, Jay. Which I get it. I pass that on to my son, but there's a certain element of danger when you have leaky butane bottles. Because we've seen a lot of things that the duck line happened. I mean, because the worst sound that you want to hear,

especially when you're in a confined space in a duck blind, is that... Which has happened many times. Well, y'all need to learn a plan B. My wife is on this... She's got a little Cajun recipe that's moved in the top three. It's basically a milk-based gravy. Like, it feels like a soup.

But all it has in it is shrimp, little potatoes, cut three ways so there's little chunks of potatoes shrimp and corn in a it kind of looks like cream based soup yeah cream base soup it's one of the greatest things the next time she's on she's she's on here I'll let her give the recipe we had it last night and they're taking a couple bowls to my mom

tonight because she just gets giddy when that enters jays let me tell you what we did now this was stone I gotta give stone credit because he did it first the season one to tell me I do the shrimp bowl. He came up with a concoction very similar to what you're talking about. So, you know, when you do a shrimp bowl, you got leftovers, but really the only thing that's good on the leftovers are the shrimp, because they're good cold as well as hot.

Correct. But like your potatoes, your corn, you know, your mushrooms, the other stuff that goes in the shrimp bowl, not so great cold. And so you kind of all this food left because, you know, you cook for a bunch of people. We had about 25 people over here, you know, for the shrimp bowl. But I, of course, had too much food. And so Stone came up with this.

He's calling it shrimp bowl chowder. And it's very similar to what you did. And he told me how he made it. So I made it last night. So I took all the leftovers. I chopped up my potatoes. I cut the corn off the cob. These are the potatoes that you already cooked.

I already cooked. Everything's already boiled. I peeled all the shrimp. I cut the sausage up from Lincoln. into small pieces, and I basically came up with the guts of this chowder, which is what you're talking about this. But it's all pre-cooked. So all I had to do, I sweated some bell pepper and some onion and garlic.

Yep. Same Trinity. And made the Trinity. And then I put it with a stick of butter. And then I added some milk. And then I put some evaporated milk and some heavy cream. And so that's the base. And then I just added all my boil stuff and this heated it up.

That's all because you just already cooked. that thing is awesome because it's got all that flavor. That's what you did. So that we solved the world's problems about that because it is fantastic. Let me tell you something. We got a little dish at our house that we make that, and I got to give a nod. I don't know if you can get this cookbook anymore, but that cookbook that we did, y'all did with that K's face on it. I don't know, I forgot the name of it.

Miss K's something. Oh, there's a corn, I think it's called. Al's Corn Chowder. That's exactly what it's called. And we make that, when my son-in-law comes in town, that is the thing that he has to it. But that recipe book is, I don't know how well it did, but I'm telling you that there are some good recipes.

We cook out of that a lot. Yeah, and that's what it is. It's mom, a lot of is, obviously, it's my, under mom's banner, but it includes some of Missy's recipes, some of mine and Lisa's and some of the other Willie. and the family. And it's our stock. It's what we do. And you're right.

That's where Jay got the idea for this shrimp bowl chowder was from my corn chowder, which is the same thing. And I got that from Paula, Godwin. She's the first one that ever made that. But of course, you know, I made some improvements,

you know, because that's what we do. What's your go-to-me on dinner when things get crazy? Well, one of the things I like is one of our sponsors, Home Chef, sends me some nice, fresh ingredients that are already

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You must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert. Well, that last, that that little throw the shrimp bowl in the chowder seems like an improvement. That seems like a game change. Oh, my goodness, Jack. It is a game changer. And what happens is now after last night, I'm thinking, I think I like the second meal from the shrimp bowl as much as I do the shrimp bowl and as good as it is for a group of people. I'll say this too, Jay's. So this, our friend that came over that you've been disciplining.

And in fact, he told, he told his whole story. I got to hear much more of his story, which is the beauty, by the way, when you have get-togethers with people that you hear stories that you didn't know, you know, all of it before. And he was telling about the night that he came to Chad Robesho's event that you were speaking at. That was the first time he met you and met anybody from our family. And I didn't realize that that was the night he really crossed over spiritually. He had been trending that way. But when he heard you explain it, he was like, oh, I'm in. And this is a guy that served our country in the military, amazing man.

special operator, just amazing things he did for our country. But he lost his way and he actually converted to Islam. And I didn't know this, Jay's, that while he was serving overseas in Islamic states, he converted to Islam. But he knew that he didn't fulfill him, but he was just searching. He just, he had lost his way from when he was a youth. And so he came, so he came to Christ through. through that night of when Jace was there, which really just ironclad did it for him.

And then he's been, you know, obviously he listens to our podcast. So he's listening today. But I didn't know his wife's story at all. And then she was here. And he said his in-laws were coming. And they did. And some of their family. And we had a wonderful time together.

But it turns out her story was Phyllis's story. She just found her dad a year ago. And he was here at my house. And so it was really interesting because they were in their early, they're in the early journey of this like reunification, you know, when you're already like almost 40 years old and you find out the person you never knew is your dad, is your dad. And so they were all here together. And it was so fascinating to hear their story. And, of course, I was super interested because I just spent time with Phyllis, you know, just a couple of weeks ago. And, you know, that's been our journey at the same thing.

She found us and found dad. But it was so good. I mean, the love they had, and I saw him, I was watching them several times throughout the evening. And he would put his arm around her and just the little subtle things that, you know, as a daughter, she needs from her dad because she's found him, you know. And she had lost her mom when she was 12. And just, you know, the evil one had thrown up so many roadblocks in this family's life. And yet as we were sitting around talking and telling stories, it was just like, but this is what God does. like he's so redemptive all the things that evil one tries to do to derail our entire life

if we just can have the patience to seek him and to search out and to find him even if we go through other religions he's there for us you know he's so redempted him and they stay we we watched the fireworks together on tv and it was just it was a fantastic evening it was just a reminder as you just go across people in life's journey that man what what we're doing matters and and this is one family that's now, you know, and of course they were, I had never met the in-laws. And so they were telling me how much they loved the show. What a blessing it was to their lives. They're from Tennessee. And it was just like, man, it's just a reminder all over again about what's so important about our faith journey and our walk is the impact it has on people's lives. So, you know,

that was a wonderful way to spend an Independence Day for me. We're getting to James again, boys. Finally. Are we in Chapter 1 yet? we're in chapter two Zach come on I was talking about this this family I met and it really Jace goes back to what we're talking about in James too about this idea

of favoritism because we really are the human condition is everybody and it does there is that's what James's point is and he kind of he's going to keep referring back to money and the things that sort of

class divide us, but it could be anything. Obviously, there's a Jew and Gentile reckoning here as well, because we know that from James' past, you know, before we wrote this book from Acts 15. And all the things that we think divide us don't, because in the end, we're sinners who recognize we need grace and we need mercy, and the only place we can find that is in Jesus Christ, which is basically what James is talking about when we get to James too. Well, yeah. I mean, I thought about most people in the religious world come to James II to argue about whether they're safe through faith, you know, alone or faith in deeds.

But the context of it is how you're treating people. What's so fascinating to me, because there's some people don't even believe you're saved by faith or deeds. I mean, you know, you get into, there's all kinds of thoughts out there. but how you treat people should be universal because that is the theme here and so you know this is kind of launching they didn't have chapter divisions uh we put those in there but he just said true religion is is treating widows and orphans well and keeping yourself from being polluted by the world and then he launches into this because you think about if we're here's jesus comes down on a rescue mission, he saves people. And then we put our faith and trust, we believe that Jesus is the son of God. Well, that's got to trickle down in how you treat people.

And so when you really, I think it's a good idea just to think about Jesus collectively. How did he treat people? Because there's one verse here that brings up love after he brings up the scenario, he says, he brings up the scenario saying, show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of Glory.

I mean, Jesus is the focus here. There's no doubt about that. For if a man wearing a gold ring and fine clothing comes into your assembly, and a poor man and shabby clothes also comes in, and you pay attention to the one who's wearing the fine clothes and say, you sit here in a good place. while you say to the poor man, you stand over there

or sit down at my feet. That's what we'd like to say. Have you not made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? Well, that's a question there. Yeah. This is not anything about Jesus whatsoever. It's just look.

What I thought about was the picture I thought was Jesus spent a lot of time showing children as lovable. They're like, get those kids out of there. He's like, bring me the kid. I love kids. And then on the other end of the spectrum, he also forgave his enemies that put him on a cross. He had the little discourse about loving your enemies

on the sermon on the mount. Just think of those two extremes. In one breath, he's like, what you think, think it's easy to love a kid, but, you know, depends on the kid. It may be more difficult than you think, because parenting is hard. But look at all those in between from Jesus washing the feet of his disciples. Okay, but he also washed the feet of the guy who was going to betray. I mean, how hard is that? So I said all that to say when he gets to verse five, he says, listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith

and heirs of the kingdom? And here's a neat little phrase, which he's promised to those who love him, which that is the foundation for where he's going. Do you claim to love Jesus? Well, then when you read a verse like verse 8, it's like if you really fulfill the royal law according to the scriptures, you shall love your neighbor as yourself, you're doing well. You're not going to be able to love Jesus and then not love people the way Jesus loved them. And so I said all that about the theological arguments. My biggest problem with all those is how the people who are religious leaders are acting towards other people because of a disagreement. Just think about when you think about pride or just being closed mind.

or just being downright, mean and insulting in a religious discussion. And I'm like, have we not missed the point of what he was trying to say on how you treat people? It has, and that has downstream consequences. We were talking about this on the Not Yet Now podcast. And like I've been around people who are engaged in the same battle. And then one group on the negative side is filled with, anger, resentment, division, us versus them mentality. And then on the other side, they're in the same exact battle.

They're filled with grace, humility, the Holy Spirit, unity, helping. I mean, and you know them by their fruit. And I think that that's what happens when you divorce the system from the person, right? When you divorce the doctrine from the person of Christ, when you separate those things out, then you can be really right about something. Maybe. Maybe you're right. Maybe you're not. But the way you treat people, you completely miss the ethic of Jesus. You completely miss the spirit of Jesus. You completely miss the aroma of Christ. And at this point in my life, I find myself gravitating more towards, yeah, I want you to be theologically sound, but I really want you to smell like Jesus.

You know what I mean? I want to be around people who smell like Jesus. And you know the difference. You actually know it when you're around. It gives you that. You can actually sense the spirit of what that is. So Fred started football practice today. And Jill said, before you leave, you got to take some electrolyte mix with you. And she brought out the cure.

And they're really, really good. All the flavors are great. My favorite is the blood orange. But, man, they're just, they give you what you need. A lot of times, especially when you're out there sweating, like you're talking about, you need something to put those electrolytes back in. Cure is an electrolyte drink made with simple ingredients like coconut water and pink Himalayan salt for hydration. There's no added sugar, as you said, no artificial sweeteners and nothing that you can't pronounce.

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instead of by some narrative. You know, it's interesting because we had the World Cup here in the U.S. as well as Mexico and Canada. And all these Europeans have come here and they're experiencing like all of America because, you know,

these things are spread out across the country. And so there's been a narrative going on for a while about America to a lot of, Europeans. And so they've been shocked when they come here and they meet people and they're like, man, these people are great. Like, man, the Waffle House and the Buckees and the just going across the Middle America and finding people and talking to people and they're interesting. And it's like finding the reality of what's here instead of believing a narrative that you

always heard about. It reminds me a quote that Abraham Lincoln said. It said, God must love the common people because he made so many of them. And, you know, It's just the idea that there is a commonality of humanity. And as you mentioned about the theological debate of James 2, which is coming later, which is in the second half of this chapter. But I want to read you something that Paul said because he makes the exact point that James is making. And by the way, he and James are so, they're looking at things from a little different perspective because James is a little more on the Jewish side.

And Paul, who's making his case to Gentiles, makes it differently. But listen to this, that this doesn't sound exactly like. this part of James, we're in James, first part of James 2. This is in 1st Corinthians 1,26. He said, brothers, think of what you were when you recall. Not many of you were wise by human standards. Not many were influential. Not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise. God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly things of this world and the despise things and the things that are not to nullify the things that are so that no one may boast before him.

It's because of him that you are in Jesus Christ, who has become for us wisdom for God. That is our righteousness, our holiness, and our redemption. Therefore, it is written, let him who boast boast in the Lord. And so if you don't recognize the true common existence of who we are, and that we're not any better than anybody else, we just are the first person who found Jesus. Jesus. And when you do that, that's the elevation. That's what makes you different. That's what changed your life. That's what changes your future. That's what gives you a legacy. All those things are built in that. And so the minute we get off of this thing is somehow, you know, we're elevated

above other people. That's when we find ourselves in a terrible place. And we get unreachable because we don't realize our commonality. We're people who need a savior, who need a guide, and that's what he provides for us. So I love it that Paul makes the same point to Corinth that James is making to the despora, those who are spread out in the Jewish realm because it's the same. It doesn't matter.

We're all together in this fight. Well, don't you think our current model of representing Christ has contributed to what James is saying you shouldn't do? Because you think about it. Now people gather up at a building, and it's kind of run like a business because people give money. There's people working for the church. And it's so tempting for leadership.

If somebody comes in that you can tell has money, they're like, ooh, they could help us, you know, get to where we need to go. And what tends to happen with that model is that widows and orphans are forgot about because they have nothing to contribute in their mind to the structure that is in place. to represent Jesus. And I mean, I hate to say that, but I just think this passage more than a lot what we read translate to what's happening

in modern America more than some of the others. Jay, to your point, it really, if a church is functioning as what we're reading about in these scriptures, and remember, we went back, we were talking about James, to Acts 2, Acts 3, Acts 4, all the way up to Acts 15, where we see them. And you see a very common element in how we treat one another. And they were selling stuff to provide for other people.

Really, a church should never have plenty of money in the bank. I mean, let's face it. We should always be struggling to ever get things done because all we're doing is helping people. It's a flow. It's a flow that only elevates other people to find, you know, whatever they need in life, which is Christ, but also then to help them, you know, get a meal or whatever. And he's going to talk about that later. He's like, look, if you see

somebody in need and you don't do anything about it, you're guilty of not wanting to have a heart for me. You should be active. You should be thinking, how do we help people? And it's not about piling up money because none of that matters. I mean, we're already on the universe because We're co-hears of everything. So everything that comes in this life flows through us to help other people find what we found. And so I think that's his foundational point. And it goes back to the early church, but it's still active today. And you're right.

You see it now. I mean, you see, I'm debating what I should say, this next line. Go ahead and say it. Tell it. You know, I wonder if there really should be green. rooms in the kingdom of God. Exactly. Yeah, I mean.

Why were you debating on saying that? I've been in the green rooms. And I'm like, but I'm like, but like, but like, it just always feels a little weird. And should there be green rooms and the kingdom of God? And, you know, I think that we do tend to cater to those who have quote unquote resources, high capacity donors and things like that and, you know, giving units. And we start to understand people's giving units. units as opposed to that.

These are image bears of God. And we build out a lot of church models that are based on this. And you get a seat at the table based on how much money you got or how much influence you have. And then meanwhile, you've got, you know, Joe Farmer out there who's got a little country farm in the middle of nowhere, but he's faithfully served his church. He's been faithful to his wife for 50, 60 years. He's been faithful to read the Word of God daily to get on his. his face and prayer before a holy God.

And I'm like, man, sometimes those guys have more wisdom and more spiritual nourishment that they can offer the church than anybody with all the resources imaginable. Not to say that having resources is bad either, because I've also seen the flip side of it where I've seen people with tremendous resources. For example, I was at the Bible Museum, Museum of the Bible. that's been funded by people with lots of money. And I'm telling you, these people are, I mean, the people that are surrounding some of these efforts, like the Museum of the Bible, illuminations, life collective.

Some of these nonprofit ventures are being funded by people whose whole business exist to fund the kingdom of God. So it's not that that's bad. Wealth is not bad. People, the resources is not bad. And there is a place to have meetings with people who have resources. I think the point is that James is making, are you showing favoritism to certain people simply because they're higher up on the social chain? That's the problem.

They're escorting them in to get the front seat because they sit in these positions. That's a different thing than, you know, gathering people together. But you described it, Zach. I mean, we had David Green on the podcast recently, and he's the sort of the patriarch of that whole family that accomplished all that. But you remember he's very humble and lowly. And like when he talks about himself, he's like, I'm one of six. When he said six kids and all the other five are in full-time ministry. And he was like, you know, I'm the outcast because I was a retailer and just went out and, you know, founded a billion dollar,

multi-billion dollar company. But he's like, that's my contribution. to the kingdom. And then they don't even keep the money. Like the money goes all into kingdom work, which is why you have the Museum of the Bible and all the other stuff. In other words, they're making a living like all of us are. But it's like we're not accumulating. These are things that are kingdom bound. And that's James's whole point. And so when we sat down with him and talked to him, he sounded like us or like anybody else that we work with. I mean, he's a very common person who loves the Lord and was raised by his parents.

to be a kingdom-minded man. Well, I just, and, and honestly, like, I mean, not to tooth their horn too much, but, I mean, I've been around this family, weirdly enough, in the last couple months, several times, and even the downstream of the grandkids, I'm like, they're very intentional. I've been in settings before people that are very famous. We all have. We've swam in these waters.

And sometimes you get around people that are famous and rich, and you feel like, I mean, it just feels like a separation. It feels cold. It feels like you're less than you're there. There's like it just, there's a, I mean, get the vibe. And then others you get around to have tremendous resources as well. And you don't feel that. You feel welcomed.

You feel included. You feel a part of it. So the problem is not the wealth in this passage. The problem is not the fact that some people are coming in with, you know, the problem is not the gold ring. The problem is not the fine clothes. The problem is not the shabby clothes either. The problem is how do you address people? Do you see, do you treat people?

based on what they have, or are you treating people based on who they are? And who they are is their image bearers of God, Genesis 1-26, Genesis 9. We bear the image of God. So what I come in with my clothes doesn't really matter. The funny thing is with people like you guys and like Jay's got, I mean, somebody thought he was a homeless guy one time. You know, I mean, that's funny to me, but it's also good. Multiple time.

Multiple times. That's been a theme of my life. So Jay's is summertime, which means that we get more access to our kids. And you got little man around. I got my grandkids around. And, you know, we've got to find things that keep them kind of interesting, right? I think one of the greatest traditions that we have as families is reading books to little kids. That's right.

And that's why we love what Brave Books is doing. Brave Books makes children's books that teach real Christian. values like courage, standing firm in your faith, loving others, and it does in a way that keeps kids engaged and loving what we're reading to them. They're all about helping parents build a strong foundation for biblical truth in their kids at an early age. And Jason, you happen to know one of the brave book authors. Missy co-wrote a book called Because You're My Family, and I think it's fantastic. It's about unconditional love.

Jeff and Jessica also wrote one called Dear Valor, which we have here on our set. And, you know, that's what Brave Books does. It exposes children to what God has done their lives, but in a way they can understand it and love it. Here's what we want you to do. When you subscribe to the Brave Book Club, you'll get a new book every month and a free starter kit. And right now, both Robertson books are completely free with your first order. Use code unashamed for 20% off. It's amazing deal.

head to bravebooks.com slash unashamed, use the code unashamed. That's bravebooks.com slash unashamed, code unashamed. You've got to be careful judging. You can't judge a book about its cover anyways, but like, I mean, you present yourself, I'm trying to be nice about it. You present yourself in a way that, yeah, I probably wouldn't think, but I didn't know that, you know, I probably would look at you. I probably wouldn't think, oh, he's, I didn't, I wouldn't give resources, you know what I mean? And I was going to say, that's why he says this idea that J-Spore up about the royal law. He's speaking to people that have no problem with saying,

love the Lord your God, the Lord God only, the one true God. I mean, that's back in Deuteronry 6. That's, you know, Exodus 20. That's the number one commandment. But he says the problem you're having, and Jesus addressed this in the sermon on the Mount, the problem you're having is that the second part of this is just as important as the first.

have one without the other. You can't say I love God, but I'm not going to love people, you know, because they're beneath me. And in essence, that's what he's dealing with, the mindset here. The Genesis 128 passage keeps coming up. I can't not see it throughout the whole scripture. As I'm just saying this, Tower of Babel, right? Genesis 128 is go basically create culture, like multiply families, people. getting together communities. Go create communities. Go. Communities. Spread the garden across the whole earth. Genesis 11, they're like, no, no, no, no. There's no spreading. We don't want to be dispersed. Let's make a name for ourselves.

Let's go to the tower to God to make a name for ourselves so that we won't be dispersed. So they're blatantly rejecting the cultural mandate of Genesis 128. What happens now in the New Testament here, what this is, it's anti-cultural mandate. cultural mandate is community cultural mandate is shared communion it's it's it's coming around the table diversity and unity

and what it's the uh the widows and orphans like why is that pure religion because that is the that is the that is the flow of the cultural mandate is is you take in people who don't have a family

and you bring them into your family because God wants families because God seeks godly offspring If somebody comes in with poor clothes, shabby clothes, and they come into your myths and you're like, ugh, and you turn your nose up at them, then you're actually rejecting the cultural mandate to have community with people. And you're saying, until you are at my level and I can get something from you, I'm not going to participate in community with you. That's an anti-kingen vision because that is a self-centered pull inward vision as opposed to an outward expression. of expansion, and God has called us to expansion through the community of believers. And so that's why, in James, that you are even seeing that in the church, people were kind of

shifting back into those old political mindsets that we see in the world of, oh, we've got to be around the right people, got to get the right Instagram pig, got to get the right, you know, it's that whole thing. It's high school all over again. Well, I think that's why eventually gets to that point where he says, speak and act, verse 12, as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty. It's not, you know, he makes the point about believing and doing, but he also, which a heavy theme in James is also speaking, because you brought up that Tower of Babel,

when there's a detachment of the way Jesus lived his life on earth, as our example, especially loving people and trusting the Father, will you speak and act as if that is true? That's why he comes up with this to me. There's no debate about this. You can't put your trust in this one and have these four books where you see how he spoke and he acted. Yeah. And I mean, he was a lover of all people.

He broke down every distinction that we make. And you see those theme lines. But we even, you know, have theological arguments with people that, It's like, well, God doesn't love everybody. And you're like, well, wait a minute, hang on. You look at Jesus, and then you see the way, you know, they act towards people. And you're like, wait a minute, that can't be true. I think about that Acts 2 when they got up.

And Peter, because now Jesus has conquered. He's rendered victory over sin and death and the things that divide us, all of that. He's like, go preach the gospel to all nations. You would assume that's pretty much everybody. All nations? Yeah, because I have all the authority. So then it's launched. And then here's Peter, who obviously got that concept,

because he quotes Joel 2, where it says that, you know, at some point, I will pour out my spirit on all people. And then he starts listing all these dividing lines, either young or old or, you know, I forgot the exact phraseology, but it's all the things. Yeah, but he's quoting Joel too.

Yeah, yeah. I'll find that. That's a good one. Joel 228, and it shall come to pass afterward that I will pour out my spirit, make it available. I'm giving you a good redneck definition there. On all flesh, your sons and your daughters, your old men, your young men, they will see visions, they will do all that. So Peter quotes that in Acts 217, post Jesus going to the right hand of God, in the last days, it shall be.

God declares that I will pour out my spirit on all flesh. And so if you just look at the, and when I put this in, I put without any theological interpretation on the grammar of this, here's what AI spit out to me, all flesh. in the original Hebrew, and it has the word there, and Greek, it has the word there. This phrase literally means all humanity or all mankind. It breaks down national, ethnic, and physical barriers. And so I recommend when you look these words up, put in that phrase without theological

interpretate. Just look at the grammar. What did it mean then? And that's what it's spit out. Well, think about this. speaking in the Tower of Babel, you went to Acts 2, which maybe that was the Holy Spirit leading us here, but in Acts 2.5 and 2.6,

it says, this sound, the multitude came together, and they were bewildered because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. So the word bewildered here is the same exact word used in Genesis 117. It's the same exact phrase. So in Genesis 11, what was it? It was they were bewildered because they were confused. The language was confused. The guy confused their language.

In Acts 2, he's now bringing the nations back together so that they can hear each other in their own native tongue. And so when you skip down a little bit further in verse 9 through 11, it says the Parthians, the Medes, the Elamites, the residents, the Mesopotamia, Judea, it gives all these nations. and what's interesting about the list of nations that it gives there, when it says each one can hear in their own native tongue, is that that's the table of nations in Genesis 10 before the Tower of Babel. I mean, you can't make this stuff up. So Christ is an abbreviation almost of the table of nations in Genesis 10 before God disperses the nations.

In Acts 2, what is he doing? Bringing the nations back together now. It's a fulfillment, which goes back to the very beginning of the Bible, which was what they were supposed to do in the first place, which was to be fruitful, multiply, and go. And Christ is saying, now we're going, the kingdom has arrived now. The spirit has come, and the kingdom will now go forth, and we will actually reach the nations. And so going back to me being at the Bible Museum, it's what I guess we're fired up about. Because I'm like, we're taking, these guys are taking the gospel to the nations, and they're going to have the Bible training. translated into every native tongue in the whole world in our lifetime by 2003.

I'm like, you don't think there's some kind of prophetic Holy Spirit-enabled eschatological happening in our lifetime? Like, this is an incredible time to be alive. It's crazy. So, you know, for most of us, we realize as we get older, you kind of hit a plateau somewhere in there where you have to start dealing with weight issues. But I found that until I understood what my body was doing and how it was working and how that metabolism had slowed down, I was going to be able to deal with it properly. And our good friends at PhD weight loss really taught me that.

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That's where you want to be. Again, that's 864, 64-644-1900, or go to my PhD weightloss.com. And the relevance to what you just described, Zach, which is so eloquently, is in the book of James, is 15 to 20 years after that happened in Acts 2, he's writing to that same group to the dispersed Jewish Christians around the world. And that's his audience. And he's reminding them of the simplicity of the beginning because it's easy to lose your way. And Jason, you read the, you know, speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom or law of liberty. And then he says in verse 13, because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful.

Then he says the great phrase, because if you just stop right there, that would be very scary. because we're all going to face judgment. We know that from John 5. Remember Jesus said that. Everybody faces that moment, right? Where you look at it and see. But then he says this great phrase, mercy triumphs over judgment.

And so you have the capacity to choose mercy for your own life. You have the capacity, therefore, to then give mercy to other people. And that's people that wrong you, whatever. I love the point you made earlier in the podcast, Jason about Jesus loving everybody. Because you think about it, we tend to highlight the lowly, you know, the woman at his feet, the woman who was caught in adultery.

But he also, remember when he came across a rich young ruler, he said he looked at him and he loved him. And he knew he was not going to choose him because of money. But he still loved him anyway. And remember the noble guy that had a sick child, he looked at him, he said, man, this guy's got some great faith. Your child is healed. I mean, he loved people of nobility.

and wealth, just as much as he did the people who had nothing. Oh, I think it was a great point. I thought about the rich young ruler earlier also when he did that. Because we just, we want to make everybody into a category, you know, or assimilate with whether it's along theological lines or whether they have a bunch of money and which results in a lot of, you know, churches looking like everybody's looking like everybody else there. And I just think, you know,

know, this is what the world is after, even people who don't believe in God. People are like, why can't we just all get together and destroy these barriers and these dividing walls? Well, that's what Jesus came to accomplish. Yeah. And it's very clear. But I just think that going back to the Tower of Babel, if you're not looking at this loving Jesus like he loved in your speech and your actions, when you're talking, you're basically

just babbling. I mean, you can have the theological correct points, which is why the verses you referred to, Al, in the next section, I mean, he just throws a haymaker here when he says, verse 14, what good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith, but not does not have works, can that faith save him? And then he makes an illustration. If a brother or sister is ported clothes and like in daily food and one of you says to them go in peace be warmed and filled which by the way that same word filled is a version of what jesus fulfilled in how he lived and his ultimate death being buried and resurrected and he also refers to that in james one four about overcoming trials but he uses the same

version of that fulfillment when it says and let perseverance have its full effect. Yeah. Effect on what?

Effect on those people around you. That's where he's headed and how you say. It's so interesting these subtle little words that James uses that we just kind of

read over and think, oh, that's something else he's talking about overcoming trials. No, he's all talking about this fulfilling the royal law that Jesus set out and by the way he lived, by the way he spoke, by the way he loved, by the way he acted. And then he removes all doubt by, because we'll get to James 4.8, by humbling himself and then God exalted him, which is what he wants to do with each one of us.

I do think there's a hidden point in here about the reason the poor people and people who have nothing, are the very top group of people that you should be targeting because they're not distracted from God by all these worldly distractions of money, fame, and all that. They're the type of people who seemingly would say, oh, okay, I get to inherit the universe, everything God has, this sounds like a pretty good deal to me because they have nothing.

And the truth is, we all have, nothing. We all have nothing. They just think we... Yeah. Yeah. It's maybe a better realize. I want to say this real quick, because I got to say this. That Pat, what you just said about Christ, that's a great point, that Christ looked at the rich young ruler, who ultimately rejected him.

And he said he loved him. And I don't want to get into a position where I have to redefine what that means. Yeah. I don't want to get in position. I don't know. That means that's not really love. That's another... No, no, no. Christ loved it. Christ loved him because the default position of Christ is love. And that's why that mercy triumphs over over judgment versus so powerful, because if I don't understand that, then I'm going to go into the world.

I'm going to look at the quote unquote reprobate. And I am going to have, it's going to be an us versus them mentality. And I'm going to look at those people as enemies to be conquered as opposed to image bearers to be engaged. And that's a big difference in how we approach the world. I'm glad you said it. That's a good preview because I know we're at our time. But I want to just say, you got to remember,

there's two things that happen on the cross, metaphor style. One is a courtroom. You know, there was a debt that was paid. Sins were paid for. People were redeemed. God's justice was satisfied. But there was also a throne room. And that's the exaltation that Jesus,

is represented. So he's like, well, what do you mean? Oh, yeah. He looked at our sin, stared it right in the face, and he paid for it with his blood and deemed us innocent. But then, in the throne room aspect, he then puts his arm around us and says, let's go. And I think that's missed in a lot of our practical lifestyle is what does this mean? We look at other people and say, they need to get in on this and share the two things that's happened there, which is, yes, you know, Christ was a victim of our mistakes, but he's also the victory that we declare to people. And I think you have.

Christ the victor. Yeah, you have to emphasize both things, or this is not going to be lived out in your life. 100% agree. It's so true. I'll end it with this. The young man I mentioned that came to my house, he's been sick and had a lot of issues.

He lost his career. He loved. And he looked at me and said, you know, I've had a lot of stuff happen since I became a son of God, a firm believer in Christ. And it looks like I lost a lot. But for the first time, I have peace that I've never had before. And I was like, why is that? He said, because of Jesus. And I was like, that's what matters.

And so that's where we're in James. Next time we're going to get what I think is the apex of the book, which is James 2, 14 through 26. So we'll get into that next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.