Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1378 | How a Billionaire’s Hunt for Immortality Only Highlights Phil’s Peace in Eternity

Episode Date: July 16, 2026

A man’s lifelong hope to die while worshiping becomes reality when he collapses during a song based on Psalm 90, giving Jase, Al, and Zach a sobering reminder to number their days. The guys contrast that peaceful view of eternity with a billionaire biohacker’s costly quest to reverse aging and escape death, then connect Phil’s final years to Al’s growing urgency to leave a lasting legacy for his family. Jase digs into James 2 and Genesis 22 to show why real faith cannot remain only a belief—it listens, trusts, and acts even when God’s plan seems impossible. In this episode: Psalm 90; James 1; James 2:14–26; Genesis 3:15; Genesis 12; Genesis 22; Joshua 2; Matthew 1; John 1; John 3:16; John 3:19–21; John 8:58; Romans 4:20–21; Romans 9; Hebrews 6; Hebrews 11 “Unashamed” Episode 1378 is sponsored by: https://chministries.org/unashamed — Get a better solution at half the cost of traditional healthcare! https://www.bruntworkwear.com/UNASHAMED — Get $10 Off at BRUNT with code UNASHAMED #Bruntpod #sponsored http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/ — Sign up now for free, and join the Unashamed hosts every Friday for Unashamed Academy Powered by Hillsdale College Listen to Not Yet Now with Zach Dasher on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or anywhere you get podcasts. Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! https://open.spotify.com/show/3LY8eJ4ZBZHmsImGoDNK2l Chapters 00:00 Jellyfish UFOs & Immortal Marine Life 05:58 Man’s Quest to Live Forever 11:34 Wisdom of Numbering Our Days 16:29 Jase Declares Jellyfish UFO Pure Clickbait 19:03 Faith Without Deeds Is Dead 24:24 Why James Chose Abraham & Rahab 32:05 Abraham & Isaac Trust God to Provide 38:00 Abraham’s Test Points Forward to Jesus 43:40 Seeing God’s Plan in Our Sacrifices 49:58 Listening to God Means Acting on His Word — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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hear that it's your money calling it wants a promotion elevate your savings with the scotia high interest savings account always earn high regular interest rates that grow the more you save and invest conditions apply visit scotia bank.com slash hisa to learn more scotia bank you're richer than you think I am unashamed what about you what these jellyfish sightings are and just got released. The UFO jellyfish. I don't even know what you're talking about, but...

UFO, yeah, because I just saw some jellyfish, but they were in the ocean. Well, that's exactly where these were seen over the Atlantic Ocean. I mean, what you're saying is verifying reports. The question is, were they in the water or above the water? Yeah, they were in the water

stinging my grandchildren. So I don't know. I didn't really think they were aliens. I've seen them before. So these are videos, Jace, videos of eight-pointed object hothering over East Asia, a jellyfish-like UFO over the Atlantic Ocean. That's what we're talking about here. Is you sure this is not fake news? That's real news.

This is recently released by, I believe, the Department of War. it's very and one silent craft that breached the U.S. nuclear base. So what is your question? There's some... What's your question? I'm asking what the, what is it? Is it manmade?

Is it supernatural? Is it alien from another realm? We've already been through the alien from another realm. Well, yeah. It's a flying jellyfish is what you're saying? Well, I mean, one of the ones I'm looking at that's just pretty clear image is a darker maroonish color, approximately 12 to 15 feet high and height. Some have likened it to a jellyfish UFO, the one previously seen in places like Iraq.

So very interesting kinds of- I'll see how this can blow your mind since you have yuppie tendencies and don't spend a lot of time in the outdoors unless you're doing it like a yucke. But so. This is beyond yuppie. This crosses over into redneck territory. Yopi territory. Can a jellyfish jump? Can it jump?

It probably can jump. I would like a real jellyfish. Let's see. Well, I'm looking at headlines. One headline says, floating jellyfish UFO haunted U.S. military base in Iraq for years. So... Listen to this.

According to AI, certain deep-sea jellyfish, such as the trachy medusia, can actually jump completely out of the water. Wow. They are equipped with a thick ribbon of mud, muscle around a thin, lightweight body, kind of like me, allowing them to swim incredibly fast and generate enough force to propel themselves in the air. So there you go. I solved that problem.

Next. Now, either are they 12 to 15 feet in height? I mean, do you ever ship a jellyfish that big? No, wait a minute. Listen, you had a, you read something on the Internet. I solved the problem, and now it's turned into cross-examination. examination. Yeah. Somebody took a picture of a jumping jellyfish. They also remember the time we did the bit about the 10 most interesting creatures or

whatever, and they had jellyfish saying that they're eternal. Remember it was something about an eternal jellyfish? Yeah, I remember that. Oh, it was the same hype. Let's see, let me ask. Let me just posit this while you're. looking at that. If, if, because the, the earth is three quarters cover about water.

And there's been a lot of movies and, you know, like people wondering if, if aliens were actually going to be here, they'd probably be underwater. Because most of the earth is water. So, and they could live wherever they want to. They could get down there. We'd never know anything. So there may be something to this. Now, these are not, I'm looking at the, that the features here.

We're not talking about an organic, this is, we're talking about engineering here. So here's your problem. This is a spacecraft. Here's your problem. I'm going to use this past issue to illustrate the present conspiracy that you are now undergoing, Zach. So I typed in here, can a jellyfish live forever? I knew the answer before I typed it in there. And it's not true, but I'm just going to read you the answer.

Yes. The specific type of jellyfish called turretopsis, don't. meal is considered biologically immortal. Now, when stressed, injured, or aging, it can reverse its life cycle by reverting into a juvenile polyp. Essentially, resetting its biological clock to zero and started over indefinitely. So you're like, this is crazy. Read the next paragraph.

While they can technically live forever by repeatedly rejuvenating themselves, They're not invincible. In practicality. Practicality. Many of these jellyfish still die because they're eaten by predators like fish or turtles. That's interesting. No, no, hang on.

I'm not finished yet. They succumb to various diseases. Or die. in harsh environmental conditions. All of a sudden, this has gone torturous. I don't want to live forever if I'm going to be eaten and tortured for mine. This is the problem in our world, and it's a deeper theological problem. Wherever there's truth, there's also a lie riding the wave.

And it goes back to the Garden of Eden. There's always an opportunity for something. Oh, yeah, technically, what does that mean? There's no technical things in the jellyfish world. They don't do technology. They're not on their little iPads under the water. I'm just making a joke here. Technically, they live forever.

What does that mean? No, they don't. You just then, the next paragraph showed all the gruesome ways that they get killed. Oh, it just infuriates me And it all started Well, it's like the There's got him Brian Jumping jelly

It's got in Oh no What No No I thought We're having two different conversations now

I was talking about It's about truth and lies In both conversations Yeah you're talking about a biological fish I'm talking about an engineered machine

But to your point I will say I agree with your point because I read another article this week that a guy named Brian Johnson. He's one of these transhumanist biohackers. And so he's reversing his age. Transhumanist bio. Oh, oh, somebody sent me this. He's going to live forever. Somebody sent me this. Yeah, but he got an autoimmune disease. And the article already said there's a snag in the plan now because he developed an autoimmune. I'm not laughing at the fact that he developed an autoimmune

disease, but just to your point, I mean, you're not going to live forever. Brian Johnson, the millionaire biohacker who wants to live forever, diagnosed. Yeah, he sent me the article, which I just answered, my buddy, I'm not surprised, but I think the media is. Well, I found it interesting when I saw several stories on him. And through his processes that he's doing to maintain his look, he's making it. himself look like what I would guess would be a robot or a I mean like he's got a very strange look about him and I guess it's from all the stuff he's I mean like he he's sticking needles in

his face every day and I mean he goes through quite the stringent process to to try to do all this to keep himself like looking what he looks like but from the outside looking in it just looks like a person who doesn't look very comfortable to your point it's about the jellyfish that would live but be eaten and tortured. You can't. Here's why you can't find comfort there because it's not satisfying when you don't number your days. That's why Psalm 90 is pretty clear. It talks about just the levity and how brief life is.

And so you take that into account. And the psalmist is like, teach us, Lord, to number our days so that we may gain this wisdom. And then the psalm goes into satisfy us. And when I wake up in the morning, like, satisfy me, Lord and you. I love that Psalm, like, that idea, like that soberness of understanding how this side of eternity is temporal in the terms of like until we get our resurrected bodies. But then that gives you the longing to find the satisfaction of him. Because if you try the other route, then eventually you hit a snag. in the case of the jellyfish, that's just you get eaten by another animal.

In the case of Brian, what was his name, Brian? Johnson. You get autoimmune disease or whatever, diabetes or something. But I mean, you're going to be disappointed in the end if that's where your hopes at. So lots of Americans right now are noticing the tremendous increase in prices on everyday goods and services. Al, have you noticed the difference in the increase in health care over the last. several years. No, it's been terrible, Zach. And, you know, at least and our self-employed, uh, since we do this. And for those self-employed, it's even worse, because you're not getting

any help from an employer. So it is definitely high when you're having to pay the whole thing. And even with health insurance, your options can be limited. Your premiums are like out the roof, sometimes keeping you from choosing the best doctors in the hospital for what you actually need. And that's why we support and are part of Christian healthcare ministries because they offer a more biblical and affordable solution. I'm actually a member of CHM. CHM is not health insurance, though. It's the original health cost sharing ministry where Christians actually share the burden of eligible medical bills together. Al, you guys were sharing your medical bills when Lisa went through cancer.

I know that was a great blessing for you all. Yeah, and not just the financial side, which obviously was a big help, but also just the spiritual side. I mean, knowing that people are praying for you, getting those notes of encouragement. Oh, no question. And here's the deal. These guys are the real deal. They've been nationally endorsed on The Ramsey Show. And since 1981, CHM is satisfied 100% of every eligible bill received.

Program starts as low as $150 per person per month with added protection for catastrophic medical events. So see why believers across the nation are better off with CHM. Get started today by visiting CHM ministries.org slash unashamed. That's CHMistries.org slash unashamed. I like your point about the, because you're so right. And since I'm the oldest of the three of us, I'll tell you, there's no doubt since when dad got sick is when it first really, I mean, we first started noticing and you knew then we were now on the clock. I mean, it triggered something in me like to speed up what I have left in the legacy that I have to leave with my grandchildren, with what I want to do with ministry, how I want to share Jesus. I mean, like, I realize the clock is now ticking because you go into that next generation

because your generation before you is, you know, they're all crossing over. So there's no doubt it's in us. And I've never done this. I mean, I've read them all, but I've never read them all together. But it would be interesting to, you just quoted Psalm 90, which was one of Moses's Psalms. And what's interesting, if you could go back and read like the final, like speech, because they all have one. Abraham and David, Solomon. But if you just read them all together,

you would see just what you were saying would be proved out in what they were saying at the end. Like they had done what they had done for the Almighty. And everything was about forward. You know, like, what are we going to do going forward? Joshua, same thing. Those final speeches that are recorded, it's like them saying,

I want my life to have mattered. And, you know, I wanted to go forward what we were trying to do. Interestingly enough, I was at an event one time. I don't know if I've told this story here before. If I have, forgive me. I was at an event, and Shane and Shane actually have, you know, they do all the Psalms, and they put them like worship music. And Psalm 90 is one of the ones that they've done.

It's a beautiful, beautiful song. And they were singing this song, teach me, Lord, to number, teach us Lord to number our days. And they were like, I mean, everybody was like raising their hands. And it was kind of a smaller gathering. And I'm literally, as they're singing this song, song, someone like comes up on the stage and was like, do we have a doctor in the house? Because somebody in the audience has passed out. And so they just kind of like took a break on

the music for a minute. Well, what happened was there was somebody in the audience, a group of about 150 people or less, worshiping. And he just drops dead right in the middle of singing in the song. About numbering your days. About numbering your days. and about it like because even the psalm actually says that we get like 70 years maybe 80 if you had the strength. 80 if you had the strength. It's kind of like this sober moment.

And you're like, but we're yearning for something more is kind of the idea of the song. And so we're singing this all together. This guy drops dead. And I found out later that from someone who is friends with his daughter that this man had said his whole life, the way I want to go out, man, wouldn't it be awesome to be right in the middle of worship,

and that's how you go out. And that's how he went to be with the Lord. But it was sobering. And I found a strange, it's very strange, I found a strange piece in it. A lot like when your dad died, when my mom died, yeah, I was sad, but there was a strange, a very strange piece in it because it, like, I backed into what? There's got to be more. You know what I mean?

Like you're looking at my mom's body and she was there 10 seconds ago and now she's gone. And what is that? I mean, it forces you into this contemplation about what is eternity? What is my purpose? What am I doing here? Where is that longing come for? What is all this? And you back into the spiritual realm and eternal life and what God has created us for.

So I think there's a lot of wisdom in that Psalm. No, it's one of my all-time favorites. And I've used it. I use it at gravesides back when I used to do a lot of funerals, I would always use it there because it's the perfect, like, last place we're kind of gathered here around at least the person's body, even though we know, you know, what happens with the resurrection. But it really is a great, like, word of inspiration in that moment to say, look, this is, this is not it. You know, we're not saying, we're not just going to walk away from here getting our cars and

the story ends. The story is going to begin when it, when he, comes back. And so it really is, I mean, without that, man, if all you got is just like this guy, what he's trying to do. And so many before him have tried similar things. You know, he's just gotten a lot of attention because he's had the money that, you know, people think to pull it off. But you can have all the money in the world. It won't do it for it. No. Yeah. Well, I mean, let me, there's a couple things. Number one, Maddie sent me this image of what it says, the clearest image of jellyfish UAP revealed.

That's what I'm looking at too. Well, that's not a jellyfish. So that's... Look, I sat here and wasted 14 minutes of my life about... If you're watching this, Rani, can you put the image on the screen? I'd love to know... Well, look, I don't look at stuff like this because it's a waste of my time. But then to put jellyfish into the...

the title, this is not a jumping jellyfish. I explained that. James is trying to tell you. Some kind of drone with a light that came by at a pretty high rate of speed. And that was before we kind of figured out, you know, what drones are going on. Somebody was ahead of the curb. You think it was clickbait? Is that what you're saying?

Was this clickbait? Oh, I know without a doubt it's clickbait. Especially when you put jellyfish in the title. and, you know, the idiots and morons around us said, oh, look at this jellyfish. How beautiful. Okay. So, I mean, geez. Just the drone, nothing to say here.

Move on. Exactly. So that was the first thing. The second thing, it did go down a good discussion because this is going to lead into, oh, did I ever come across something last night. in my studies. Is this really going to lead into that? Are you about to have it? Oh, it is.

No, because ultimately, ultimately, you started talking about life and death. And look, what is all this? He's waiting to get into this

the whole time you and I were talking, just so you know, that's, he was waiting for it. He was looking for some avidatee to get out of this

and into what he wants to talk about. That's right. This is Phil Robertson Jr. This is Jason's transformation into our dad's. I mean, you know, this is happy.

The only thing I like, about this conversation as it reminded me of the forever jellyfish that the scientists have said, oh, yeah, technically, they're going to live forever. But, you know, they reinvent themselves, but they also die in horrible ways. So, you're like, yeah, yeah. So I'm glad we went there because this James II illustration that James uses about. We get to this section. I mean, how you can give the overview about faith and deeds and loving all people.

It's a, to me, just from studying the book now is indefinitely as we have so far, to me it's the apex of what James is really going to get at. Because I feel like everything after this is going to lead back into what that looks like. And so I think this section 214 through 26 is what he's trying to say. in the letter is what I think. Well, let me tell you, do I have a rabbit hole for you? And it's not our typical rabbit hole that we go down. This is about like this dissecting what this image is going across the sky.

This is what this is like in James, too, because I got a question for you. Let me make it more profound, Maddie, so you can do a little short intro. So gentlemen, I have a question. He's got a question, Zach. I got a question. So, I'm ready. We go into this James chapter two, and he starts talking about your faith. And he actually uses the word belief in there when he said, Dion, even the demons believe.

Well, what good is that? It's a key verse. But so in 214 through 26, one of the most argued sections of Scripture in the Bible among religious people and people who follow Jesus. You know, is it faith? Is it faith in deeds? There's a faith alone as it works. But I have a different question. Why did James use Abraham and Rahab as his two examples?

That's the first question And I have my theory on that Well, I don't have a theory on that I have facts Okay On why he did that I have some facts too Yeah

The second question I told you our rabbit hole I was going to be the same days Because this is exactly where I went Second question I have is Why in the world Does he get to the end And says,

Zach, this is why I'm thankful You brought up The lies about jellyfish as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. So he actually uses three illustrations. He uses Abraham. He uses Rehab.

And then he uses this, perhaps the most weird thing. He uses... The relationship between the body and the spirit to faith and deeds. Of you being dead. Yeah. Or alive. Yeah. Isn't that kind of morbid?

I guess I've just never noticed. I mean, you get to the end of this. Now, I think I found the solution to those and the answers to those questions when I went back and read those stories. So there's a lot of you guys out there who put in long hours and you don't have comfortable, durable boots to wear on the job side.

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So that's the rabbit hole I went down. I would like to read them at some point, but I'd like to get your thoughts on this going into it, or MRO. No, I was intrigued by the exact same thing. it was interesting because I was going to bring this up when we got there. The couple of guys that I read, they immediately made the contrast points of why he would use Abraham and Rehab. You know, one obviously a pagan prostitute from Jericho that was the whole city was going to be wiped out versus the father of the faithful and, you know, the guy that, you know, bore the idea of the Messiah to come. And so they were making that thing.

But I was just the opposite. When I went back, just being so familiar with both stories, I found that they were so linked, was why he used them not. There were obviously two totally different people and two totally different times in context, but there was so much similarity between their stories as well. And so that's where I landed on just the illustration itself. They're linked, but they are different. I mean, you got to keep in mind, she was a,

Gentile. But guess what genealogy she's in? Jesus. Yeah, she's in the Matthew genealogy. Correct. So it's, it, there's a whole eschatological. Explain that. That she is, she was a Gentile. And you think, well, how could she be in the geneal of the Christ then? Isn't that like everything, you get re-Romans 9? I mean, that the, that when, you know, when God became flesh, you became Jewish flesh to quote, feel. But, you know, like, you know, to Demble on the patriarchs, the law, the, you know, even the incarnation of the Christ. And so, why would she be in this genealogy? You actually see even in the old flow of scripture that it was never truly about the DNA. And because you have the introduction of Gentile blood into the genealogy that the Christ came out of. That's a very significant point. So,

but so there is a lot of differences here. But I think to Al's point, it's not just that they're different that makes them together in the passage. He's showing that you have two completely different like people in every capacity, but they're linked in something. And it's the thing that they're linked in. This is Romans 9. This is the whole point of Romans 9, by the way. It's what they're actually linked in that is what matters, right? And so, and what they're linked in is the pursuit of righteousness by faith. You know, I've got to, I don't want to, like, dominate the conversation, but I have a lot to say about it, particularly on the Abraham side, you know, but we can go

under the second. But think about it. Think about it even with, even with Abraham. I mean, he was 75 years old. We know from the region he came from. He's in a polytheistic, I mean, he's in a pagan situation, and he's called out to go and to do something different, which would then make him the first of the covenant people that, you was going to build through the Messiah.

But I mean, like he was called out just like Rehab was. I mean, I see it as such a similarity because he wasn't even under the Mosaic covenant because he predated it. So, you know, he was before law. He was before, you know, the nation building. He was before the kings. And even though he, yes, he became that first one. That's why he's the father of it, you know, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob when they first

talked about him. But he was still called out at 75 years old. And he had to make a decision, is he going to go or not going to go? just like Rehab did. She had to make a decision. Am I going to protect these guys? Am I going to lie for them? Am I going to put my life and my family's life on the line or not?

I mean, you just see all these similarities and the idea that belief, which is his main point, belief in something means you're willing to go to the map for it. That's what happens next is whether your belief system matters or not. I was going to say this real quick. The Genesis 22 passages. Yeah, the Genesis 22 passage is interesting about Abraham because then we get like a whole, like we get the full kind of picture of his story in that, I think in that particular moment.

Because if you're thinking about what the Bible teaches about Abraham as being the father of our faith, we get a description of what that is, you know, because what was the promise? That God took him outside and he said, okay, look up in the sky. And I want you to try to count how many stars there are. And then Abraham's like, I mean, there's way too many. of course I'm paraphrasing the scripture and he's like yeah that's how many grandkids you're going to have and as they got older you know this is like how is this even possible as old as we are

well then they try to kind of like they're going to they heard this promise from god and they're like okay let's let's get together let's try to make this happen so then he brings in hagar and they had this moment of sin where he actually has a kid with with with hagar whose name is Ishmael and I'll say that's not what that's not how this works I'm the one that produces it's the one way covenant remember I'm the one that does everything. So then he does bless them with Isaac, his one and only son. And then Genesis 22, the Bible says he believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness. So then he takes this son and God says, I want you to sacrifice this son to me.

It's this only son that you have. And when you read Genesis 22, what you see happening here is Abraham says, okay, I'm going to sacrifice this one son. Now remember the promise. What was the promise? Through Isaac, your offspring shall be reckoned. So through this one son, Isaac that you had, through this son, not Ishmael, through Isaac, that I'm going to give you all those grandkids. This is how I'm going to fulfill the promise.

And Isaac had not had any grandchildren yet. And now God's telling him to sacrifice. So if I was Abraham, what I would be thinking is, well, God, do you know how this works? You told me, this is what I would have said. I said, you told me I was going to get a bunch of grandkids. I've only got, and you said it was going to come through Isaac, and now you're telling me to kill Isaac. That doesn't mean, are you a liar? What are you doing?

But what we see in Abraham's pursuit here in Genesis 22, we see two things in the passage. One, he says that the boy and I will go up to the mountain and will make a sacrifice, and then Abraham says, and we will return. Well, how does he, why does he say that if he's going up there to kill Isaac? We don't know that later until Hebrews 11, we found it out. And the second thing he says when he goes up there is Isaac's walking with his dad. And he says, Dad, I see that you have the wood for the burn offering, but where's the sacrifice? And Abraham could have said, well, the joke's on you, buddy, you are the sacrifice.

But what he says is God will provide. And God did provide. When they got up to the top of that mountain, God provided the substitute and the sacrifices, which is one of the places why we get the idea of substitutionary atonement. is that God provides the ram and the thicket that becomes the sacrifice. But later on in the book of Hebrews chapter 11, we actually see the psychology and the reasoning process of Abraham. And it says that Abraham reasoned that God would raise Isaac from the dead.

But that's not what God did because he never killed Isaac. And so Abraham believed God, even though he didn't understand the how, or he did not understand how God was going to fulfill his promise. he just believed that God would fulfill his promise. And I think that's what it means to have faith. To have faith is it means I don't know how you're going to do it. I just know that you are going to do it.

And then my actions and my obedience will follow based on what I know your character is because God is impossible for God to lie, Hebrews chapter 6. I think that's what's playing here in this James passage. Before Jason gets on his run, to sort of bolster what you just said, the word here, the Greek word here for faith, Pistia, it, I think it was interesting because it means belief, which of course is what we tend to connect to faith, but listen to the other, it means belief, it means trust, it means confidence, it means fidelity, and it means faithfulness. All those in this word faith.

And if you think about all those words, I mean, the belief, when we just kind of think of in terms of a mental assent, but all those other ones are active words of, of some. something with what I believe. And the word ergo, which is the word for deeds, and these are the two that are all throughout this text, it means to toil or to have action. So it's putting that into action. And I found erga several times in John 3, 19, through 21, when Jesus was talking about what the people of light do versus what the people of darkness do.

He made the same point that there was a connection between the action, the earth, with light or with darkness. It's always going to be the fruit of that. That's how you know what somebody believes. You just watch them for a while and you know. This episode is brought to you by L'Oreal Group. Beauty is a powerful force that moves us. That's why L'Oreal Group has built a business that is inclusive at its heart

with 100% of its brands, championing diversity. With 25,000 professional opportunities for people under 30 worldwide, and 54% of leading positions held by women. Diversity is a strength that helps Loreal Group create the best beauty products for all people. Visit Loreal.com to learn more. Well, Zach said a lot of things I was going to say, but my point was, why did he choose the two?

After all this discussion about listening and doing faith without deeds, notice listening, not just listen, but doing, Remember that was in chapter one? Yep. And why he picked these two, and the life and death aspect of this. Yep. So if you read Genesis 22, which Zach went through it,

but there was one key verse that I think is the link to Genesis 22, and then in Joshua 2, we see Rehab story. So let's just read this. So, and most of this Zach just said, which was pretty impressive, off the top of his head. God tested Abraham. This is Genesis 22. He said, Abraham.

And here I am, said Abraham. Take your son, your only son whom you love. Now I want to just stop right there. You realize how many times that phrase is used about Jesus once you get to the New Testament? Oh, many, many, many times. John 1. Yeah.

It's his version. The baptism of Jesus. This language is used. Transfiguration. So keep that in mind, because this is all pointing back when Jesus makes the statement before Abraham was I am. And look, you know how long this journey was, this death journey with Isaac? Three days. Three days of death.

Now, you just think about this. And this story makes people uncomfortable outside the followers of Jesus because they're like, what are you kidding me? I've heard jokes about this story on movies and things. They're like, yeah, what a dad. Because imagine Isaac. He's like, you know, he's in a group 20 years after this. He's like, my dad tried to kill me, you know, horrifying.

Wow, you know. But, I mean, it just seems icky when you start thinking about this. It makes you uncomfortable. And I think that's natural because you're like, why is God asking him to do this? And then, so you're thinking about this for three days. So I'm going to stop right there for I keep reading because I think just to put this into context, anybody that's ever known someone who can't have kids, this becomes consuming. I mean, I have been on the couch in front of someone who this is a real short.

struggle in our world, and it is very difficult. So here's, they're thinking we have this promise, but we're beyond age, we can have kids, but in their case, they know this is an impossibility, but it happens. So I do think that should alleviate your concerns about why is God asking him do this? because if it hadn't been for God in the first place, and he knows that. He's like, this is how we had the kid. So I think the story behind the story is,

God's already provided, even though it was an impossibility. This is not like the jellyfish you can never live forever. That's why I said this actually went in with what I was thinking. Just think that you, not only would you like to have a kid, that's one thing, which is very serious. I said that I've seen people more preoccupied and dramatized that. But then when it's impossible for you to have a kid, and then you do,

well, it puts you in the right perspective for this test, which is, it says it's a test. Where does it say that? You're out of the bat. Yeah, right off the bat. Somewhere in there it says a test. Is it verse three? Well, it said he tested in verse one, didn't it?

Yeah, yeah, there it is. One. Yeah, in verse one. So that's why James is going here. Because remember, how does James start off? Yeah. You have tests and trials. Trials.

I'm just trying to answer those questions. Why did he go here? And the answer is going to be found in verse 18, but I'm just setting the story up. So then when he set out for the place, Yeah, verse four, look, on the third day, Abraham looked up and saw it. Okay, well, that's, why are we bringing up three days? What other significant death march happened in three days later?

And it was the son sacrifice. Talking about the son, whom I love. Oh, he's seeing where this is going. This is about Jesus. It's a preview. And for any other reason, that's why I went through about having kids and he couldn't have kids because God sent his son. This was a planned thing. So then verse 5, he said to his servant, stay here with a donkey while I go. Now we will worship and then we will come back to you.

And you rightly brought that up, which you only have two options. Either Abraham said that because he really didn't know what to say he didn't want to say in front of the boy, we're going to go up, but only I'm going to come back. Well, that wouldn't have been good. I don't think that's was his motive. I do think that he thought, well, he already supernaturally created this son, and he gave me a promise, God doesn't lie, we're coming back somehow. And I do think Hebrews 11 explains that. He reasoned. Because how is this unlike the first time? He's asking him to give him up, but it was, I'm not saying it was easier for to give him up, but it was easier based on what had happened in how he got here.

Yeah. He's like, you see what I mean? Why are we saying this is a tough thing? Hey, he's like, I get it. If I'm a hundred years old and I'm going to have a baby, if he tells me to go up the mountain and sacrifice him, I'm going to do it. He must can raise the dead.

I don't think it's that big a leap. No, that's, this is supported in the text, in Romans 4. What you just said is support. in Romans 4, which is also, when you ask the question, when we get into faith, which we're getting into now, and you're like, I don't have faith, how do I get it? Listen to how Paul uses Abraham. I'm going to get into the whole text here, but he gets down to the end of it because he's talking about Abraham, you know, basically was the prototype of what faith looks like. And then he gets down here

to Romans 420. And he says, no unbelief. made him waver concerning the promise of God. What was the promise was that? The one that, this is when he's on the mountain in Genesis 22. Like he didn't waver even though God said, kill your son. He said, no unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised.

So when he's on this mountain, to your point. And he's like, man, I've already seen what God can do. Like he gave me, Isaac, when we were well beyond our years. So whatever he says he's going to do, I've already gone down that road once, is kind of what I'm thinking he's thinking. I've already gone down that road. And that's when we get the whole Ishmael situation.

I had all the drama with Hagar. Man, I ain't doing that again. Like, I'll learn my lesson. Like, I know what God can do. Don't know how he's going to do it. He'll probably do it this way. But I don't even know, but it doesn't matter. I'm going up.

So I think you're right on his, that is his kind of frame of mind as he's engaging in this. But go ahead, because I definitely want to get you to the Genesis side. Don't you think that's exactly why Jesus on his way into Jerusalem to give his life. Oh, by the way, just raised up Lazarus, let him die, speaking of three days, and then raised him up.

I mean, wasn't that to like show everybody that it's, the impossible is possible if it's me. But we're still. I just wanted to give you the context because there's a reason James used this, and we have not brought it up yet. I found the reason. We're getting that. We still haven't found the reason why he used this to illustrate faith without deeds is dead.

Because we gave him the reason for Abraham, but we haven't tied in the, what's the Rehab connection? Why did James use Reha? So, because all this is good stuff. But you'll see. Verse six, Abraham took the wood for the burn offering and placed it on his son Isaac. He himself carried the fire and the knife, which is an unusual word, the word knife, because I got into the Hebrew lingo of all this, basically was kind of to eat.

Because you're going to see a picture of the Garden of Eden here about making a choice and reaching out your hand. just like you see with the knowledge of good and evil and the fruit and they're on a mountain and there's an altar here there's a lot of similarities going on here and so then it says as the two of them went on together

Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham Father yes my son the fire and the wood are here where is the sheep for the burnt offering Abraham answered God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.

And you notice where it says God himself will provide just another little caveat. When you look at the Hebrew lingo there, it's basically the form of what we would say see to it because this mountain, the first mountain was Morah, and this is Mariah, or maybe I have those backwards. But both of those names means to see. and so when he says he will provide it's it's basically he'll see to it because seeing is going to be part of the fabric when it comes to wisdom

when you read that hebrews 11 where it says he reasoned he saw that there was god had a plan in this that there's a there's a bigger plan going on i just thought that was interesting because i know those two mountains meaning see and then he uses a word that basically says he'll provide but it's he'll see to it so that I can see what he see our professor jace on the doctor jackson on the hillsdale when we were studying genesis member Zach he made the exact point jays is making about seeing yeah that that's it he said the exact same thing so then verse 10 which this is where I got to reach out his hand then he reached out his hand and told the knife to slay his son.

Well, you think he's just using that phrase? You know, when's the last time somebody was reaching out their hand to grab something? After the sin in the garden, this exact phrase is used to the opposite effect when God said, because you have chosen what you chose, you will no longer, I will no longer allow you to reach out your hand and partake of the tree of life and live forever. Well, in this case, he's reaching out his hand to take the knife to kill his son. You see? But he's making a decision based on trusting God instead of the reverse, where Eve didn't do that.

The reason I'm making all these word plays and they're coming up all over the place, because the smoking gun for why James is using that is found in 18, in my opinion. and we're headed there. I agree. So then it says, he reached his hand, but the angel of the Lord called out to him from heaven. Abraham, Abraham. Here I am, which the actual Hebrew says, look me.

Yes. Is what it says. Yep. Do not lay a hand on the boy, he said. Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me, your son, only son. There's that saying again that's used as Jesus in John 1 and the baptism of Jesus,

the Transfiguration, John 316. Now, this verse 12 is a rabbit hole that I won't go down, but this is a much debated verse because people read this and they're like, well, wait a minute, I thought God knew everything. You know, I thought he had had a place. plan, he predetermined, he's sovereign, which he is sovereign. And there's a difference, I guess, in predetermining and pre-knowledge. But somewhere in this, it's almost like him choosing partners to get his will done, creates these types of scenarios, and that's really hard to wrap your head around. I just want to acknowledge that here, because he's like, this is what it says.

And you're like, what does the original Hebrew say? This is what it says. Now I know. He's inserted himself into a point in time where he gave him a test. He obviously passed because he trusts, and then God says that statement. Now I know that you fear God. It's a rhetorical tool that I think that the authors use me. I'm not saying he did.

I just, what I'm trying to convey is because a lot of people, you know, treat God as God and treat humans as robots. but he's chosen to participate with humans. And you get into these trials and tests and these things happen. We don't know, but that's part of kind of the dance with God that we participate in. And ultimately, you're like, should I trust him? And my point is, when you do trust him, we're going to see some action. We're going to see some deeds.

is I think the point. All right, moving on. Verse 12. Let's see, or did I read 12? Yeah, now I know. So verse 13. Abraham looked up and there in the thicket, he saw a ram, called by its horns, he went over, took the ram,

sacrificed his burnt offering instead of his son. You were right, but that's where you get the idea of the substitution. So Abraham called that place, the Lord will see to it, or the Lord will be. provide. And to this day, it is said, on the mountain of the Lord, it will be provided or he will see to it. The first time is that Abraham and Sarah tried to provide through Hagar. So this is a redemptive moment. This is like rectifying. We don't provide. The Lord will provide. And they sin, by the way. And, you know, when you read the, because we're coming in here at 22, we're coming

in hot. This story's been going on since Genesis 12. First, he asked you to leave his family, leave his land. He does all that. And you see the same terminology in that conversation. Now he's asking him to give up his kid, his son, who's the catalyst for all generations being blessed. Yeah, we're over 25 years after all this started historically. When you think about this was he put to the test, oh, he's put to the test. He basically said you need to give up everything.

And I'm getting into the details because ultimately when Jesus sends his only son, whom he loves, and he has his three-day death march, well, we're left with the same thing. We're going to have to give up our family. When the father sends his only son. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and we're in that same test. So then it says in verse 15,

I swear by myself, declares the Lord that because you have done this and have not without your son, your only son. Why does he keep saying that? That's why I know this is about Jesus in the future. I will surely bless you, your descendants to numerous stars in the sky and the sand on the seashore which is his original promise your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies and through your offspring

all nations on earth will be blessed now this next little phrase says because you've healed Now it just says because, but the word heal is used here. It's the first time it's been used since Genesis 315. You're like, well, what does Genesis 315 say? You remember after the sin, after the confrontation, after Jesus said, I mean, a God through Jesus, I guess, the words, said, you'll no longer be able to reach out from the tree and eat and live. There's some curses that happened. And when he said the one to the woman, he says,

through your offspring, which we're talking about Abraham's offspring in this context. Let me get the exact phrase of Genesis 315. It says, God curses the servant of the fall declaring, and I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and her offspring, he shall bruise your head and you will strike his heel.

You see that word heel? Yep. Well, that word is used here. Now, it's a totally different context. I want to read to you what my AI search said about this. We're almost out of time, does you may have to, this may have to be a giant tease. no, I'm doing it.

So, here we go. Genesis 2218, because you obeyed my voice, the Hebrew behind this, it says, as a result, in biblical Hebrew, listening and obeying are intrinsically linked, listening to his voice.

Does that sound familiar? So even though it's used in a totally different, way. When you look that word up, it's unusual for Hebrew writers to use that because we're talking about offspring, but I'm saying the writer of this, Moses through the Holy Spirit, is making a point about listening and doing as a common thing. And he throws in offspring and even this heal. Because you've healed, which it's a metaphor, but it just seems weird. that he would use the same word from Genesis 315 in the context of offspring.

And so my whole point was, there's the listening and do it. That's why James used Abraham because he listened and he did. What if he just said, yeah, I believe you, and not taking the three-day journey? Not got out the night. You see, that's James, that one verse

about listening and doing, it's your listening to the voice of God and that action occurred. Are we out of time? We are out of time, but we're going to get to Ray out next. Yeah, I've got to just say before you have to come back for the next episode because now that you've said all that, I've just been packing gunpowder in my cannon. We've got a giant tease for the next podcast, so we'll see you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast.

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