Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1384 | The Bible’s Greatest Mystery Is Solved in One Sentence

Episode Date: July 24, 2026

Al, Zach, Christian, and John Luke trace the Gospel of Mark’s surprising answer to the mystery running through all creation: Christ in you, the hope of glory. The guys connect Jesus to the kings, prophets, priests, sacrifices, and promises of the Old Testament, showing how the Bible forms one continuous story fulfilled in him. They also examine why the disciples recognized Jesus’ power but struggled to accept a Messiah who would conquer through suffering. The cross ultimately reveals the true nature of God’s strength and the radically different life his kingdom offers. In this episode: Mark 1:1–15; Mark 2:1–12; Mark 4:10–12; Mark 6:30–44; Mark 8:1–38; Mark 14:43–52; John 21:15–19; Luke 5:1–11; Luke 22:35–38; Romans 5:8; 1 Corinthians 1:23–25; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Philippians 2:9–11; Colossians 1:27 Today’s conversation is about Lesson 3 of Theology 101: The Western Theological Tradition taught by various Hillsdale Professors. Take the course with us at no cost to you!  More about Theology 101: Examine the great questions of Western theology from the ancient Hebrews through today. The gift of speech, or reason, given by God to man, enables us to think about God and to worship Him.  This free online course pursues this purpose by examining the nature of God as revealed in the Bible, exploring the great theological questions and controversies of the early Christian church, studying the history of the Reformation and Counter-Reformation, and much more.  We invite you to join us and explore the nature of the relationship between God and man, and how a proper understanding of this relationship can lead to a free and happy life. Sign up at ⁠http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/ Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/at-home-with-phil-robertson/id1835224621 Listen to Not Yet Now with Zach Dasher on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or anywhere you get podcasts. Chapters  00:00 Christian’s Frosted Tips 03:18 Finding Jesus Throughout the Old Testament 07:06 The Bible Comes Alive as One Continuous Story 13:02 Peter’s Influence on the Gospel of Mark 18:11 Mark’s Gospel Echoes the Exodus Story 22:03 Why Jesus’ Disciples Didn’t Understand Him 26:18 Peter Sees the Messiah but Misses the Suffering 31:09 The Disciples Expectations of Power 36:24 Jesus Fulfills the Priesthood & Kingdom 41:02 The Scandal of a Crucified God 44:47 The Cross Redefines Power Through Sacrifice — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Well, welcome back to the Unashamed podcast with Hillsdale. It's our Friday episode. You guys look great over there. Does Christian get a new hairstyle? That's good, man. Thank you. Looking good, right? You never know. Christian's like, you always wonder, when he walks through the door, I'm like, okay, what are we going to get? What are we going to get now? Is it going to be long-haired Christian, bearded Christian? Christian. Yeah, I wanted to cut it. I did a chat GPT photo of myself with shorter bleached hair, and it persuaded me to want to do that. So I did not go full bleached as what the chat photo gave me,

but I did frosted tips a little bit, Zach. You know what you mean? Oh, Zach, you remember the frosted tips, bleach hair, era? You were a little younger than Christian, though. Well, and the problem, too, was I... He's just like his father-in-law. Well, I had used some, like, sun and stuff down to the beach back when we went in April with John Luke's family, with, I guess, with our family. And it, like, turned my hair orange. So I had been waiting for a good opportunity to try to, you know, get it more blonde again.

So this was my opportunity. Well, you look great. Yeah, I did mine. Mine was not bleached tips. Mine was the full M&M, like it was white, the whole, every, every. Hard to miss. Yep. We are in the Hillsdale episode. We're actually taking a course called Theology 101, which has been actually really good. Anytime you use that language, I'm like, eh, what is your theology? So far, it's been very Orthodox and right on Target. And we're having a great time so you guys can take the course with us for free. And we have a big announcement. We're doing another giveaway on this new course that we're taking now, Theology 101. We're going to pick one listener to come down to Westman Row and to watch a live recording of Unashamed. We're going to pay for travel and

for you and the guest up to $1,000 each. All you have to do is take the Theology 101 course with us. You've got to finish all the quizzes. You've got to send us your certificate of completion. And to sign up, I've got two websites for you. You sign up to take the course for free at Unashamedforhillsdale.com. And then once you finish the course, you upload your certificate at watchunashame.com. And you will be entered to win the drawing.

So yeah, I hope you guys will jump in on that with us. we're having a good time. This was a great, I don't know what you guys thought about it. I thought this was a really, really good lecture that we're going to talk about today. We're in lecture number three, which he went to pretty much the whole gospel of Mark.

I don't know. Did you guys enjoy it? I thought was awesome. Yeah. I learned a while. I learned so much. Yeah. Like Al said,

you said that pre-podcast? Yeah, it was before we came on. Yeah, they said to three. Yeah, he, I thought, well, first of all, just Dr. Westblade,

I like his passion. He's a very enthusiastic. He's very enthusiastic professor, and I love that because, you know, it just makes it more interesting when you know he's excited about it. And he was kind of tying in the Jesus in the Old Testament, but he made a quick transition because he really wanted to get into the book. Super quick transition. Chris and I were like, he laughed that in the rear view. But I'm sure probably in his regular lectures, he has more time. But just for one, he had to get into Mark.

But I thought it was really good. What was your favorite thing he did during the podcast? I have like this one visual. He was near the end of the lecture, and he was talking about, it was giving Jesus dialogue to when, you know, after we fed the 5,000,

how many buckets were left over and what the disciples said? He was like, 12. He was acting out. And he was like with the 4,000, how many were left over? And he was like, oh, seven.

Yeah, to me, this was great. I'm reaching out from my Bible right now. I actually like, I like the the background so this one and like the chalkboard and everything. Every every course we've taken has been totally different as far as like the background, the look, the graphics, like whatever. The next one's, it's the next one a real fireplace or is it a fake fireplace? What do you all think? I couldn't tell. I couldn't tell. I couldn't tell. I thought it was fake. What's the one behind you right now? Is it real or fake? It's, it's rolling. But it's not putting out any heat because this is like an ice box at this place. It's a

I wish it was a real freezing in here. The, yeah, I like the whole like background and everything I felt like the chalkboard. The chalkboard.

Well, the, this, I mean, it's actually one of the areas like that I love the most. One,

the gospel of Mark, in fact, we, you know, I have another podcast sometimes I'll get on and say, welcome to the not yet now

podcast because I get them switched up that Jill and I do with one of the pastors at our church. And, but we have, we've done like, I think, 70-something episodes of that podcast, and most of them, with the

exception of interviews that we've done, have been going through the gospel of Mark. So Mark is like a key teaching for us, how, you know, the unfolding of the kingdom and all of that. And he brought up a lot of the same points that we've talked about in great detail. And then the other thing, where he started that you mentioned out, like that, that's of a particular interest. to me of how do we see Christ in the Old Testament. That's a, that, that, that is profound to me. That has been probably one of the things in the last five years that has really set my faith on fire is reading the Bible through a little bit of a different lens through what's called biblical theology where you're seeing the whole Bible as a, as like one continuous story as

opposed to like, you know, systematic theology where you take issues, which is helpful, but where you read the Bible and you look, what is the Bible? Bible say about given subject. But reading it as like a cohesive story has just set me on fire and seeing how Christ was all in the Old Testament. Yeah, he used Abraham, Moses, and David as his three sort of archetypes, which kind of goes back to his covenant theology, which was in the lecture before that. But yeah, you see those pictures very clearly, and we've been talking about is that quite a bit on regular and ashamed, even out of James, how God has, all those examples are really showing the system of Jesus, even before anybody ever heard of Jesus. But, you know,

they understood the Messiah, but you see all that this there. And with Abraham, it was this idea of being called and Jesus being the light of the world. And then with Moses, it was this sacrifice system and that Jesus becomes a sacrifice with David, of course, him being the king and this being a kingdom. And he even established that in the days of David as an eternal kingdom. And so you just follow that lineage down and boom, here's Jesus, you know, as that king. So I thought that was really rich and really has shown the kind of the whole system of theology and how it works. And really, it's so cohesive, you know, and it's important. It's important for people to understand it because like, Zach, I don't know about you, but I grew up basically with, you know,

the Old Testament was just for the Jews. It's like, I mean, you know, there were some things, some stories in there that related to us, and Jesus was a Jew, but I never heard this taught. You didn't hear that hard at all. Yeah, we grew up in a denomination that did not have instrumental music. And they would make the case based on, I think it was Ephesians 4 when it says singing and make melody in your heart.

And then they would say, you know, well, it doesn't, you know, it's not commanded. There's no example of it. in the New Testament. And then if you were talking to somebody who disagree with you, they would, of course, they would bring up David and his harp. And they would go, oh, you're talking, look at all these Psalms and look at all, you know, and there's so much in the Old Testament. And do you remember, I don't know if you remember what the, what the rebuttal would be. I remember a phrase that we would say. That way it says that, that's the Old Testament doesn't

apply. And we literally, that's how I viewed the, that's how I viewed the Bible, like the Old Testament, that's, yeah, that doesn't apply. That doesn't, you know. And, and so, and so. we camped out mostly in the New Testament Gospels and then obviously probably a lot of Paul's letters, you know, and we had like a New Testament theology, but it was completely divorced. And I'm not saying that the church I grew up in taught this, this is just how I received it. But I didn't have a full understanding until, you know, so I got into apologetics and, you know, probably 20 years ago I started rethinking a lot of things. And then the Bible really came alive for me by seeing how this is one continuous story.

And I do think covenant theology provides us with, or some version of covenant theology provides us with a more cohesive story of the whole scripture. I would love to go back to my young self and ask people, what about Hebrews? What about the book of Hebrews? Because Hebrews takes the entire system and shows exactly who Jesus is from the Old Testament. I mean, it's just so clear. So I don't know.

I don't remember here. Well, it's kind of like one of my friends having dinner with the 90s Jewish guy. And I told him, I said, I want to lead you to Christ. And he said, well, he's like in the 70s. He said, well, you're going to have a hard time to tell me I've been on the wrong road for the last hour many years. I said, well, no, I don't think he's been on the wrong road. I said, you're, it's like that movie, six cents, you know, with I see dead people. And the whole story, you're watching the story.

but until there's that revelation at the end that, oh, the kid or that the psychiatrist who's played by Bruce Willis, he's actually dead. Then the whole story comes. It kind of makes sense before. Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. Well, it's been out since the 90s. He didn't watch it. But so what really is like when you understand who Jesus is, then what happens to the entire Old Testament, it just, like all of Judaism comes alive in this moment when you realize the Christ is the fulfillment.

of the entire thing. And then you're like, oh, that's what that meant. Oh, that's what that meant. That's what he said that my house will be a house of prayer for the nations. Now that makes a lot more sense. Or I'll call those people who are not my people, my people. Oh, oh. And then everything starts to make sense again.

And it is a cohesive story that, to me, has been such a great validation for my faith in Christ. And I'll say this. I think it has profound implications, too, on understanding the gospel. of Jesus Christ. Because, again, when I heard the gospel growing up, I thought that the gospel was only how Jesus died for my sin was buried and resurrected from the dead. And that is certainly a key part of the gospel. But he mentioned this at the very beginning of his lecture. Listen to the way Jesus announces the gospel. And the word gospel here would be like a,

the idea would be that there would be this herald who would come in, proclaiming like the good news right and listen to what John says and I mean I'm sorry Mark says in Mark 114 after after John was arrested Jesus came in the Galilee proclaiming the gospel of God

he said what did he say what was the gospel and saying that the kingdom of God is at hand repent and believe in the gospel it's one of the reasons why I love the gospel of Mark is because Mark is so clear not to separate the gospel of Christ from the coming of the kingdom of God. They're not, you can't separate them.

And so Mark's gospel is actually introducing us that the kingdom of God coming is a key essential connecting point of the gospel of Christ. That is, that is the good news that Christ is bringing. Is that the kingdom of God is at hand because why? Well, the king is here. You know what I mean? And that's exactly why he started the book the way he did in Mark I, the beginning of the gospel about Jesus Christ's son of God. And then he goes straight to Isaiah, to your point about the Old Testament. It is written Isaiah, the prophet says, I will send my messenger ahead of you who will prepare your way, a voice of one calling in the desert, prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him, talking about John the Baptist.

So he goes right back there, and that's where he starts. And so you get that Old Testament view. He had been pointing towards the pathfinder and the one that's going to point to Jesus. And boom, here he is. And what's interesting, he didn't get into this in the lectures at, but some of this is just, some of this I've just read other people in this, my opinion. But Peter, Mark was Peter's, he was young. So, and he was very young when everything was going on.

And he sort of became, you read about him in Acts, you know, there's some disputes about him because he didn't, show up when he was supposed to. Remember, and he had some issues with Paul. But he wound up being Peter's right-hand man. And so he was sort of his scribe. And so I've always thought this was really Peter's sort of interpretation of his narrative through Mark. And I've always thought, and this is just my opinion, but Peter, I felt like because of the way he came in with the whole betrayal and then the reconciliation and then being the guy, I think Peter wouldn't want his name on the gospel.

He historically said he was crucified upside down because he didn't deserve to die the way Jesus did. He wanted to be less than. And so I've always thought that's why Mark wrote it, but it's really Peter feeding him the idea. And this lecture solidified that for me that in a way I'd never seen before because I didn't really, I'd never picked up on these marks of three as he explained it, how it was. told in this, but that makes perfect sense when you think about Peter because he denied Christ three times. And then when he's restored in John 21, Jesus restores him with the three questions, right? Do you love me? Do you love me? So, I mean, it would make perfect sense to arrange it this

way if it was being told from his perspective of following Jesus. And why wouldn't he? You know if John and Matthew and Luke were going to do the same things that Peter would have had to have weighed in. So I just thought it was really rich to go there I never We talked or taught We discussed Mark Zach on this podcast And I missed that

I'd never noticed the three rounds With the as he laid them out But he was exactly right The connection between Mark and Isaiah No the idea that he had three different times Of the miraculous And then the And then the

On the water the storm, and then the questioning of it, then the blind person. I mean, there was three times that happened. He was right. I never really noticed it. I don't think I realized that Peter was from Besseda. I mean, I'm sure I knew that,

but just the connection made between the blind man from Besseda and Peter from Bessata. I'd heard growing up, and it's the complete opposite of what you just said, because some people thought that Mark might have been, I don't think it was the rich young ruler, but it was, who did some people think that Mark was?

Which is why he uses the word immediately so many times. Have you ever heard that argument? No. You haven't? Who's the man in the gospels that he like runs away and he's like naked? Yeah. It's in, it's in Mark. That is Mark.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm saying people think that was Mark. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Mark was the one. Yeah. who ran away naked. Yeah, but I've heard some people think that that was actually possibly like the rich young ruler, which is why he uses the word immediately so many times. So it's like later on he gets that idea of like I should have followed him. So this is, you're talking about Mark 1451, and this was when he was arrested.

And he says, am I leading rebellion that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I was with you teaching in the temple courts. did not arrest me, but the scriptures must be fulfilled. Then everyone deserted him and fled. And then here's the verse you're referring to. A young man wearing nothing but a linen garment was following Jesus. When they seized him, he fled naked, leaving his garment behind. Yeah.

And so most people have thought that was probably Mark describing himself in the moment. Yeah. Because he was very young as well. I mean, they were all young. Yeah. Because Mark's the gospel. He uses that word immediately, like more times than like, He uses it, I can't remember how many times, but it's a ton of times.

Signifying how important it is to, like, take initiative and take action. I've never heard it attributed to the rich young ruler, but I think it's definitely the Mark and John Mark that we read about in those early days of the groups that went out. I'll have to look it up. Yeah. Yeah, one of the things you see, though, and how Mark does, he does use a lot of the Old Testament imagery. I mean, even in the language here at the beginning as it's written, in Isaiah, the prophet, I mean, you notice what even, like, it's not just an employment of Isaiah's prophecy. It's also a recall back to Exodus because he says, prepare the way. The voice in the wilderness, you hear this idea of wilderness, Exodus 23 talks about deliverance out of captivity.

You have the language that's very similar here, too, in Malachi III, that talks about. this ever-expanding sacrificial system that's coming, which I think is the kingdom. Then Isaiah 40, they go back into captivity with the promise of future deliverance. Then you move into verse 12. It says the spirit immediately, there's that word immediately again, drove him out into the wilderness. And he was in the wilderness for 40 days. Well, why 40 days? Well, 40 days echoes Israel's 40 years in the wilderness. And so you're seeing like this echo of Exodus in the gospel of Mark. I've heard. it's the new exodus that we're in. We're actually in the new exodus. And then when you,

when you can see how this overlays with the story of Exodus, then you realize a lot, and the book of Hebrews is very helpful in this, by the way, of showing how all of this was ultimately fulfilled in Christ. But you can't take Mark's gospel without seeing Christ all throughout the Old Testament, because that's what Mark's doing is he's showing us that that he was the Christ was the Jesus was the son of God. That's a big bold move. And I think it's one of the points he brings out in this whole lecture is that was the kind of heresy of the whole thing, for lack of a better term, was that God would actually die, which is what's going to happen to Jesus.

And they're like that they didn't have a worldview for victory through suffering. And no one had that understanding. And that's what Mark's establishing here through his Christology, through showing who Christ actually is. Well, and it also shows you how difficult it was in the first century for all of the peers of Jesus to really, you know, believe that he was who he says, who he claimed to be. And, you know, and I get it because we would have the same problem. in our era. We talk about this a lot. Like if Christian came in one day and said, all right, boys, I need to lay this on you. You know, now that I'm 30, you know, I am the son of God.

And we would all be like, nope, we've already got him, you know. And so we would have a hard time with that for a lot of different reasons. And they certainly had that. And I think that's one of the things that came through really well in this lecture from the book and the retelling of it is just how hard it was for them to accept even seeing the signs and the miracles that had been predicted for all of their history, you know, all the fulfillment, all the things that were happening. He fit the bill, and yet it was still hard to believe. Was it the third of the fourth lecture where he was talking about in the Old Testament when it said when God said anyone who, anyone hung on a tree is accursed?

I think that was this one. I think it was this one. Is it this one? Yeah. I couldn't know if it was this one or the fourth one. But that was kind of like, kind of like we said just for the Jewish. Yeah, because he goes on and talk about in the end of the lecture, about how Christ was a stumbling block. But yeah, that idea in the Old Testament about anyone hung on a tree,

let him be a curse. And then you have Jesus nailed on a cross. I think it was the fourth lecture because that was part of the, which goes in with what we're talking about on this lecture, but it goes in with the idea that it was hard for them, to accept the humanity of him because of that, both him being born and being a human being and that he died.

So we want you to take the courts with us, sign up for free at Unashamed for Hillsdale.com. One of the other reasons I think it was hard for them to get it is because it was super confusing. And Jesus was very... That's a good point. Jesus was confusing. I mean, he says in this lecture too, he talks about that verse.

and whenever Jesus, I gave you these parables because... Which was another quote from Isaiah. Which was, yeah, yeah. I gave you these parables so that you would not understand. Your minds would be, you know, clouded. And later, consistently, I think it's in Luke, or maybe John's, or I think it was Luke's gospel later, where Jesus is about to go, he's about,

they're about to go into Jerusalem for Jesus' death, and Jesus explains everything to him, and then they go in and it says, and the disciples did not understand. it just like goes right of their head. It's like they just constantly were not getting it. And Jesus, for the first while part of his ministry, also wasn't clearly saying it,

which, I mean, that's like a whole other thing. But it's just the point of being like there was a lot going on and Jesus was trying to do certain things and bringing in all these Old Testament references and all these kind of huge events were happening that I think when they were there on the ground, they couldn't understand, but we now are able to because we kind of have the whole scripture together. Right.

But we also have to search. Don't you think, Zach, that part of the thing that all the gospel writers were bringing forth and because Jesus did it the way did it, he's showing us that you have to have a seeking, a heart that's willing to absorb, even what the mind can't at first. I mean, like, you have to commit to that. And that takes time.

And that takes wisdom to get there. And so I feel like he was setting that forward at the beginning to show us this. Because, you know, Peter shows that, and he brought it up in the moment where he, he says, who do you say I am? And he says, well, you're the Christ. It was the right answer. But he still wasn't there yet because then he got clear. And he said, well, okay, you're right.

And here's what's going to happen. And then Peter immediately, he spins and says, nope, not going to happen. Yeah. We're going to make sure that doesn't happen. And he calls him Satan. And he made a big deal about that. He got hung up on the suffering part.

And even though Jesus said, the son of men be raised, you know. But I think that he talks about this. I thought it was one of the best points of the lecture was the nature of the coming of the kingdom is a progressive unfolding of illumination of the eyes. Right. So he has the blind man, the first blind man. I mean, it's like, be healed. I mean, Jesus is touching.

Be healed. The guy's like, I'll see stick figures, but I can't quite see. Like, I can't, and these, oh, okay, let's do it again. And so it took, it was like a two, like, it took two times. And he's like, it wasn't that Jesus was lacking the power. This was intentional. And we see that, even with Peter, his vision. And when you said the disciples didn't understand, yeah, they kind of understood

something because, you know, they're seeing the authority of the of man. They're seeing that unfold. They're seeing, for example, in chapter two, it talks about that there's a miracle of the healing of the paralytic man, and it says that this happened so that you may know that the son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins. And so you're seeing this establishment of authority. You're seeing miracles. You're seeing a lot of things that's happening that's establishing Jesus as the son. a man, the Daniel 7 figure, you know, the, this is like we're elevating now Christ to the, he's going to be God. He's the, he's the one who was prophesied about throughout the entire

Old Testament. And so they're kind of getting that progressively throughout the whole story, but they don't, they're not fully getting it yet, because they're only got the partial healing until they're touched again. And I think that what the, the full healing, and we never received the full healing, right, according to Hebrews 11, until Christ comes back for the second time, then we will. Philippians 2, you know, when we see every knee, there's a time coming where every knee will bow, every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord. We won't have an option.

It'll just be so, the revelation of his glory will be so evident and overwhelming that nobody's going to be able to believe a lie anymore. We're just going to be witnessing the sovereign king in his glory, and we're just going to hit the deck and be like, you're Lord and I'm not. Like, that's coming. But now we are in that state. But I was thinking what they were having a hard time with is they didn't understand the secret of the kingdom, which is in, if you turn to Mark 4, 10, it says when he was alone, those around him and the 12 asked about the parables.

Because to your point, John, like he spoke in parables and he spoke in a couple. kind of a weird coded language. And he said to them, to you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God. To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God. But I don't think they fully understood what it was. And the Bible tells us later in Colossus 117, what that secret is.

And it's this, Christ in you. You're now the temple of the Holy Spirit. You know, that's the secret that Christ lives in us now. But they just weren't fully getting that. I think they got the power part. They didn't get the suffering part. They're like, eh, I don't understand the suffering part. That's the part Peter kept pushing back against.

Well, and it's interesting because I think it's subtle too, because he says, I mean, Jesus turned and looked at his disciples and he rebuked Peter because Peter took him aside and rebuked Tim about the suffering. And he says, get behind me Satan. You do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men. And I don't think he, in the moment, that's harsh, you know, and he made a big deal about that in the lecture. That's the F, you know, on your paper. But I think it's speaking in a subtle way to even what Jesus was experiencing, because that's what Satan does. When we have to face

something, and times are hard and times are difficult, in those moments is when Satan loves to come in and cast doubt on what you're supposed to be doing, right? And so, and the reason I know this is because when Jesus gets to the garden and he's in anguish over what's about to happen, I mean, to me, he shows the clearest picture of his humanity and our humanity when we're facing something that is just brutal. I mean, you've had a sick child recently. I mean, for those who are parents, it's like that's the worst thing is for one of your kids to have something and you're not sure what it is and you're trying to figure it out. That's an anguishing thing you have to face and figure out, God, help us deal with this thing. That's where Jesus was. And so,

he elevates the rebuke. I mean, yes, Peter showed, you know, he didn't quite get it, but it was an elevated rebuke. That was a rebuke at Satan because of what he does and what he's done to us, humanity. And so I think he's making a much larger statement there that, that included himself, because he had to face that at his own day. Yeah, I do have a quick question, though, because talking about Peter, you know, and then when Jesus says, who do people say that I am, and he says, you're the Messiah. And, Zach, you kind of just mentioned it about throughout the life of Jesus, I'm sure they had an idea about who he was because of the power, but maybe did not fully understand the suffering part. But like when Jesus calls Peter,

when they're fishing, and Peter falls on his knees and says, depart from me, Lord, if I'm a sinful man, when he says, Lord, is that like a generic, like a, you would call a rabbi lord or like a teacher lord? Because I've always kind of thought initially out the gate, he realized something was different about Jesus from the initial meeting with the, the fish. But when he says Lord, but then later he says you're the Messiah. I mean, I'm assuming those are two different Hebrew words

and things like that, but... They are. Why would he have said Lord from the get-go? Oh, I definitely think it's because he recognized there was something very different about him. I would need to... I don't remember the Greek word for that. I'd have to look it up. But it is different from the Messiah.

I figured it was a different word. I'd always just thought... It is a respect, though. Look, you got it. I mean, he knew it. What was interesting was he was a fisherman and so a large catch of fish is going to get his attention. But he had also been listening to him teach because remember

he's just standing over there washing his nets the whole time Jesus is teaching. So he knows there's something about him. But what's interesting is for Peter is the interesting you brought this up is because not only does he recognize something great about Jesus, but he also recognizes something lacking in himself.

And that's I think why he probably used that expression. He even recognized in that. Be sure and take the course with us for free at unashamed for Hillsdale.com. Yeah. Well, because you have Psalm 110

or, you know, just later on with Jesus ends up talking to the, to the, to the statutes about with David, when it says, and my Lord,

or in the Lord said to my Lord, and I've always thought that when Peter is with Jesus fishing, and he says, depart from me, Lord, I'd always thought that

initially Peter had this idea that Jesus was greater than yeah, than maybe most people already at the time thought he was. Oh, yeah. And you're right. And it is no shocker then that he would be the one that would also recognize him as the Messiah, the first one to actually say it out loud.

Other than, I guess, John the Baptist is saying, look, the Lamb of God, you know, similar to that before. It was the demons that recognized Christ as God quickly in the gospel of Mark. And I mean, I think that's a key point here. And then I think when Peter comes on the scene and confesses Jesus as to Christ, he was right in the title, like, yes, that's the guy. But what he was wrong, and he didn't understand the actual role of the Messiah. Because immediately in Mark 8, it says Jesus began to teach them about the son of man, Daniel 7, right? must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priest and the scribes and be killed. And so, but what's interesting about this is it's like if that's all Peter could hear in the moment.

It was like, no, no, no, that's not the Messiah. The Messiah comes and he conquers. Like he, no, the Messiah comes and he exercises power. And the Messiah comes and he has dominion. I've read Daniel 7. The son of man, that is not how this is going to play out. The son of man doesn't die. the son of man is given a kingdom.

He's given all dominion, all authority. Go read Daniel 7. He appears before the ancient of days. No, no, no. There's no suffering here. What's interesting, though, is that if Peter would have had his ears open, he would have heard the very next part of the story, which is the whole point of the gospel is resurrection,

because he says after Christ, the son of man is going to suffer, he says, and killed, and after three days rise again. I mean, it's like he missed that second part. He was so hung up on the suffering part. He didn't hear the victory part. And that's when Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. And he was like, that's not how this is going to play out, Jesus. And that's when Jesus said, get behind me, Satan.

Because if you remember when the devil, when Satan took Jesus into the wilderness to tempt him, that's what he was tempting him with. No, this is about power. This is about authority. This is about, it wasn't about authority and power expressed in sacrificial love as what we see in the gospel. It was about the accumulation of power as if Christ actually needed that. And so that's why he looks to him and says, get behind me, Satan, because that's who he was acting like. It was the same lie from the enemy that Jesus had received earlier.

Now Peter's the one giving it. He said, get behind me, Satan. That was exactly the point I was about to make on then not understanding the role of the Messiah. and I think we have we people nowadays have the same problem that they were having then in that it's a mixture of we we have the as he put it in the earlier lecture the philosophical god like the perfect god that we have in mind the all-knowing all-capable or all-knowing all-powerful omniscient god and us in our minds thinking how that God should act and what they should be doing.

But then when we read scripture, it's different. It's a real, for lack of a personality. Like God has his own thing going on. He's complicated. And there's all these different ways that he moves and deals with people in different circumstances. But it's not this kind of like big overarching like force that we kind of think is like that's what God should be. And that was kind of the same thing they had going on with Jesus here is they thought the Messiah should be the certain way. And for them, I'm sure it was growing up,

bringing the Old Testament when you were talking earlier about, or both of you were talking about, you know, you didn't really have the Old Testament that much. Like, I'm sure you heard the stories, but you didn't study from it. And for me, it was kind of the opposite. I think that growing up, I know I did, read more from the Old Testament than from the New Testament. And even now I would say I've probably read the old text, just eyes on the page probably spent more time in the Old Testament than the New Testament. And not necessarily in like study,

but just because like I love like the stories. Yeah. Like I loved, especially like middle school and high school, reading their stories of like, like Abraham, like going through the wilderness and like saving lot and going through the thing and watching, like reading the book of judges and the judges like writing,

is like rising up and like defeating the evil kings that were like taking over and then reading the stories of David and David and David Goliath and then David the warrior and David the killer and then David the psalmist and going all the way through like Isaiah and Elijah and like all of them and like you read these like great kind of like men and women of the Old Testament and these stories and the way that they like came in and God just like destroyed and they took names and they took over and they restore Israel. And like that is the same stories that Peter and Mark had going into this time period is like, oh, the new David, like David who killed his tens of thousands.

Like he's about to come into short like Jesus is the new David. Or John the Baptist is like the new, who is he compared to? Elijah. Like calling down fire from heaven. the whole these like stories, the raising people up and healing and like all these things are going to happen. But then you get the actual person of Jesus and he comes in saying like the meek will inherit the earth. And like we've come to be to sacrifice, not to, you know, raise life, not to kill. Like the sick, I'm the, I've come for the sick, not the healthy, you know.

And it's just like a whole mind shift of like what. power looks like and what the savior savior what saving means it's not just for this nation of Israel it's actually for the entire world yeah that's very good and christ really kind of the caveat too is to understand him as the fulfillment of all of that so he's not just a uh a new david he's the fulfillment of the kingship right he's not a new he's not just he is a new Moses but he is the fulfillment of the prophets, right? He's the fulfillment of the king, the fulfillment of the prophets. He's the fulfillment of Aaron of the of the, of the, of the, of the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the priesthood in the order of Mount Caziday. That's the point of Hebrews. And so what you see then is like,

that's, I think that's a key part here is if you were to just go back and read the Old Testament and have no clue of Jesus, and you were to see all the conquering and how God would raise up groups and they would come in and they would restore Israel. But what, but also what would happen every time is what would Israel do? Every time, what do they do after they got restored? Falling in. Went right back to their idolatria. Yeah.

Which is kind of funny because you're seeing that same kind of mentality, like with the feeding of the 5,000 and the 4,000. And he's like, do you not understand the loaves? They're fighting over a loaf of bread after he had already done these miracles. And they're like, well, we don't have enough bread. The disciples are fighting over the bread. And he's like, you people, like, do you not understand? the loaves. You could have said that

I'm sure that was the same exact problem. It was that was happening in the Exodus. Like manna comes out of the sky. Like bread falling from the sky, God says, I'm providing for you. But just don't hoard it up. They don't just eat what you need. We'll have plenty.

I'm going to take care of y'all. And as soon as they get their fill after they get received the rain bread, they're like, oh, we got to hoard it up in case the Lord doesn't provide. And he's like, what are you guys doing? It's like the same story. And so what's happening in the Gospels is it's not just a repeat of Exodus.

It's not just a repeat of the Old Testament. It's now there will be an accomplishment. Now Christ is going to provide us with the means to actually live in the presence of God now. And that wasn't provided in the Old Testament. They had atonement and all of that. But what was their problem with atonement? Think about it. Their atonement system was that you're going to be.

going to have a priest, a high priest, go in once a year on Yom Kippur. He was going to, on the day of atonement, he was going to atone for the sins of the people. And the Hebrew writer points out that the problem with this is that, one, that priest also has to atone for his own sins first. Two, eventually that priest is going to die, and you're going to have to get another priest in there, and you're going to have to have this repetition of priests. And three, you've got to do it every single year. But in Christ, you have the perfect priest who does not have to atone for his own sins. You have a priest that will, in the order of Mount Kesadak, this guy, he's not going to, he's a priest forever. He's not going to die because he was resurrected from the dead. And you have a priest

that we don't make a sacrifice every year. We made a sacrifice one time on the cross of Calvary, done, finished work of Christ. Christ is the fulfillment of all of it. And that's the, that is the story that's unfolding here, but as you move through it, you can, yeah, it's hard because we know the end of the story. You have to put yourself in the mind of the apostles of Peter. You don't know the end of the story yet. He hadn't seen the resurrection of Christ yet. He's completely clueless to it, and so would we be, you know?

So sign up and take the course with us for free at unashamed for Hillsdale.com. No, I think that's, I was going to say, I've never thought about, yeah, comparing Exodus with the manna to Jesus and the loaves of bread. So I was going to say that was a great point. I've never necessarily thought about this. He's exactly right. It's the same spirit of people. But here's what I think.

I think you're so right. What the apostles, the disciples in the moment, probably thought, like a lot of the other leadership around that era, was he was building an army. And what an army would have you would have if you could provide food for us, the hardest thing to do is feed an army, right, and keep them ready and to go. So that's why they kept missing it, you know, because again, they're seeing this, you know, he's going to rise up. That's why they were arguing amongst themselves,

is, okay, so where we get to sit? Imagining that he's on a throne, where's our little pecking order? Who gets to sit on the right and the list? So they're having these arguments with the idea that this is going to be like a national takeover. We're going to kick the Romans out. We're going to take over the world.

It's all this militaristic stuff. And you know it is because even at the critical moment, and even after Peter had been rebuked, we get to that point in the garden where Jesus is going to do what he says. said he was going to do, Peter pulls out a sword. Yeah, they're armed up. They're like, he's like, I am confused when Jesus, when they said two swords and he

said that's enough. I am. Yeah. What is that about? Well, I don't know. This is what? What was that? There's a, where he says, we bring our swords and he said, we have two and he said, yeah, that's plenty. Yeah. He said, that's enough. Yeah, I'd have to find that reference. But because I think he was saying too, too many. Yeah, I think it was kind of a sarcastic. That's what I thought I need it. I think how we're doing this thing. Because you had the group that came in.

I'm saying they missed it because Luke was right. They were looking at it from the wrong lens the entire time. But here's the big narrative. I think the big thing that this lecture brought out, and I think he was correct. The scandal of the gospel is that God would die. The scandal of the gospel is that God himself would be crucified the scandal of the gospel is that God himself would take on the weight of the world's sin,

and then the wrath would come on. The wrath of God would be poured out on that sin that Jesus carried. I think about that. He's carrying the weight of sin on the cross. I think that the key point is that there was a substitution. Yeah. That there was a substitution. I don't think we can get away from the fact that Christ, I mean, this is the whole Abraham story, right?

Abraham offered Isaac. They're going up on the mountain. and God provides a substitutionary sacrifice. Christ does die in our place. Christ does take on the penalty of what was due us. Christ does take on death. Second Corinthians 318. Yeah, I mean, very clear.

God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, which is very clear. And I don't want to read this too. We don't have time to do it because we don't have a lot of time left, but go and read Isaiah 53 because he mentions it in the lecture and it's such a picture, or you were talking about it earlier, of who God is in terms of sacrifice. I mean, that was clearly, you know, we know that's Jesus that's talking about, but it is not

it is not the conquering idea that it turns out to be, but not the way we thought he was going to get there. We read Isaiah 53 to 3. But I do want to read this, 1st Corinthians 1, 23 through 25 because he read it, and I thought it was really good. It says, Jews demand miraculous signs. Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles. But to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ, the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than mastering. And I thought

was a say and point to the idea that it was not done the way we would do it, but God's way is always the right way. So even if you miss that, it's important to see it, you know, for what it is. And that the idea that we needed a substitute, that was the whole purpose and coming here. And we talk about this idea of the partnership and relationship between humanity and the divine. And we're going to talk about this much more in the next lecture about the Trinity. we had to have him come for us. There was no other way. We had to.

And I think it's also, this is something I've been working on for the last few years. And ironically, the guy who has been teaching me this is the son-in-law of a guy named Edmund Clowney, who was kind of the guy at Westminster Seminary who wrote about Christ in the Old Testament, ironically. But anyways, the idea of it. is is that in the very nature of the cross, you actually see the Trinity. Like you see the nature of our God in the cross of cavalry itself, because what you see at the center of the cross is self-sacrificial love, which is the nature of God's. And so when God demonstrates his own love for us, that while we were still enemies and sinners, Christ died for us. He died for the ungodly.

Like this is a display, right? It's life pouring outward. And so now, of a sudden, the power dynamics in the kingdom of God, this is why they couldn't get it. Because the power dynamics in the kingdom of God are Trinitarian. They're not of this earth. They're in this earth world, but they're not of this world. And what that means is inside the

Godhead, there is no manipulation. There is no, I'm going to use you, abuse you, I'm going to manipulate you, I'm going to gaslight you, I'm going to strategize against you. I'm going to, because there's no, they are, like the father's son and spirit ontologically, meaning in their very nature, in their very being, they just love

each other. They just like unadulterated, unbridled love and just complete sacrifice for the other all time, just all they can do and say, well, what would a relationship with three persons interacting in this way eternally be like it would be one being? That's who God is. That is the Trinity. And so in the cross, what we actually see, what Jesus is showing us is he's actually inviting us in to a new way of living. And so when he says that the first shall be last and the last shall be first, that is not like, like, I'm going to reward you for being humble and getting in the back of the line. And then I'm going to usher you to the front of the line where you can look at everybody in the line and laugh at him as you get ushered to the front. Now what he's saying is the best place to be, like the best place to be in reality, is in the place of sacrifice, in the place of submission, in the place of just giving yourself out for others.

And so Christ demonstrates that on the cross for us and at the same time, he is taking on a payment for our sin so that we can live in that type of triune life that God has invited us into, that participation or that dance in the Trinity of C.S. Louis, Seth. Well, and that's why he said, take up your cross and follow me, you know. And he mentions that this idea of the new and the reformed, us and him. That was a perfect lead-in, Zad, to where we're headed in the next podcast, which is to talk about the Trinitarian controversy and sort of how hard it was for people to grasp that. So remember, sign up, take the course with us. It's free, Unashamed forhillsdale.com. We'll see you next time. Join us every Friday for Unashamed Academy powered by Hillsdale College. Make sure to go to Unashamed for Hillsdale.com and sign up. It's no cost to you. That's unashamed for Hillsdale.com.

and don't miss an episode of the Unashamed podcast by subscribing on YouTube, and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.