Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1393 | Phil Robertson Knew This Verse by Heart—Until Jase Read the Fine Print

Episode Date: August 6, 2026

Jase remembers the priceless moment Phil quoted one of his favorite verses, only to double-check the Bible when Jase added the terms and conditions that came next. Jase, Al, and Zach also honor the life of longtime mentor Jim McGuiggan and reflect on the responsibility of carrying forward the faith, wisdom, and example of the great men and women who came before them. Their study of James turns to the kind of heavenly wisdom that trades pride, retaliation, and hidden agendas for purity, peace, gentleness, mercy, and sincere relationships. In this episode: James 3, verses 13–18; Matthew 5, verse 8; 1 John 3, verse 3; Hebrews 11, verses 35–40; Hebrews 12, verses 4, 7, and 11; Job 3, verses 25–26; Matthew 5, verses 38–40; Philippians 4, verse 5; 1 Peter 3, verse 15 Want to watch the Lost Episodes of Unashamed, only on EKKL? Get 20% off with code UNASHAMED (all caps), and watch faith- and family-friendly movies, podcasts, and more: https://ekkl.com/ “Unashamed” Episode 1393 is sponsored by: https://www.quo.com/unashamed — Get 20% OFF your first six months with Quo! https://myphdweightloss.com — Find out how Al lost 80+ pounds. Visit the website or call 864-644-1900 and mention "Al Robertson" to get 2 weeks free in the program! http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/ — Sign up now for free, and join the Unashamed hosts every Friday for Unashamed Academy Powered by Hillsdale College Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! https://open.spotify.com/show/3LY8eJ4ZBZHmsImGoDNK2l Listen to Not Yet Now with Zach Dasher on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or anywhere you get podcasts. Chapters 00:00 A Six-Hour Drive Becomes a Four-Point Sermon 05:11 Great Stories Never Get Old 08:01 The Mentor Who Shaped Al & Jase’s Faith 18:10 The Simple Truth That Holds the Bible Together 21:12 Knowing Scripture Without Truly Knowing Jesus 24:24 Carrying Forward the Legacy of Great Men 29:21 Worldly Wisdom & the Chaos It Produces 35:10 Comfort Isn’t Promised to Christians 40:08 Wisdom Chooses Gentleness over Retaliation 57:18 Persuasion Without Manipulation — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales, using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify.

I am unashamed. What about you? So welcome back to Unashamed. I had to make the mad dash back last night, Jay's from the Southern Lair. Josh and I were done. Maddie's gone today. So Josh, I call him the Swiss Army now if he's filling in today, producing our podcast. And he was talking about how these people go back and forth to gold stores.

I said, I'm one of those people. But you have to, it's a mental, it's mental, gymnastics. I actually have now in a strange, weird way, I've gotten to where I sort of enjoy it, especially if I've been here and we've done a lot of podcasts and I've preached because I've done it so often. I just, my mind kind of goes into just autopilot. Trance. A trance. And so I kind of like, it's kind of a gathering time for me. I can think about stuff and all that. The problem is this time of year, when you're traveling along the Gulf Coast in the summer, in the afternoon, late afternoon to early evening,

I mean, the pop-ups are coming. And so about every 45 minutes to an hour, you're going to go through the heaviest rain imaginable. They just pop up. You know how it is, and you're playing golf. They just, you're on the Gulf Coast. It's going to happen. So you got to come out of the trance when you hit a lot of those

or you got some trouble. Yeah. But I break it into four one-and-a-half-hour segments. That's the mental gymnastics of it. It's not six hours. It's an hour and a half to hear, an hour to have to hear, an hour and I don't have to hear,

and I don't have to hear, and I don't have it there, and then you're there. So it breaks it up in a way where it's like, oh, only a preacher would do that. You make a traveling, a four-point sermon. Bring it home.

Bring it home. When I get to the invitation, when I get that last hour and a half, that's the hammer is down. We're heading home. Drop the hammer sign. That's why I just couldn't be an organized preacher. I just had to do it for

Well, you're right A free-roamer It's because you have to Like it's such a grind Especially in the old days When you were going like You know it's three presentations Every week

It's kind of like what we're doing With the podcast actually But I mean you had to You had to be organized Just to get the material It's just you're a grind It's a grime And you could never like

Relish at the moment Good or bad Or like you know Feel terrible about something Because you've got to move on You've got to move on You've got another one coming there's no sense.

Somebody says the bad. Well, he said we should have teams. Yeah. It seems like it's too much for one guy. And I've always kind of been a part of a team here, either with, you know, one other person or right now it's kind of a rotating group. That's what y'all do, is that? Yeah, we got a team.

We got about five of us that rotate through. And sorry, I'm losing my voice. I just thought you had gone from a tenor to a base. In the last 24 hours, something happened. Yeah, because we recorded yesterday. You weren't this low. No. Oh, you were grinning like a posse.

Well, he was off vacation. That's what. That's what happened. Now I got the blues. But I tell you, what does make me feel good is that we have the lost episodes, Al and Jace, of Phil. Jase, you're actually on one of them. Because, you know, we recorded, I think, like 12 episodes of Phil before we started. Like, we had this whole thing that we were going to do initially with Unashamed.

But those episodes had never seen the lie today. And I found them the other day. So we're going to put them on the ECHL.com. EKKL.com. You guys can watch these episodes. They're really the unashamed birth story, how it all started. You guys can sign up there. You can also get this podcast ad-free

because that's the number one complaint that we get is that you don't like somebody you don't like the ads. Now you can get this podcast along with a lot of other Christian podcast, faith-based movies, series, a whole lot of other things. So you can get it at E-KK-K-L. com. Check it out. You get 20% off a one-year subscription with our code, which is Unashamed.

So again, that's eKKL.com code Unashamed. Y'all check that out. And hopefully my voice will somehow recovered throughout this podcast. That just shows you right there. Too much rest. Too much rest. That's exactly right. I lost my stamina.

Yeah, you guys are going to bear with me on that. But yeah, we have a rotation of, God, I don't know how you do it. I mean, I don't know how these guys get up there, you know, three times a week. And it's just. Well, the same audience, too. It is really rough because you're trying to motivate essentially the same people all the time. What we all do, we go on the road is so, so good because it's a new audience every time. And they're very excited that you're there.

And so it's just so fresh, you know, every audience, no matter whether you're doing what you normally do or something different. But, man, it's tough. And it's just a same guy's. weekend and week out. It's like comedians. You know, how do they do it now with the internet? All your best stuff's out there.

Yeah. How do you keep coming up with a new? I mean, we have all, you know, you watch it on Netflix. Well, I mean,

then they go on tour. I mean, but you've already heard. Because you're right. The old days, the comedians, they did the late night run, but you only did like five minutes

of your content. So it's just enough to wet the appetite. So when you go do a live show, everybody was going to show up. That's the only time you could get it. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's,

more about, I mean, there's a reason this story in this book, it's the same story. Yeah. Why do we keep talking about it? That's true. Really awesome. Yeah. It's, I remember Phil saying, you know, we basically tell the same stories. And, but you enjoy hearing them again.

Right. I'm talking about our family stories. How much do we do that? Oh, the time. We do it a lot on here. And that's why good, good repeatable stories, I mean, I've said this before. Dad used to, when he first became a Christian,

we would invite people over. We'd feed them fish, remember Jason? It'd be church folk, and sometimes it was our mentors. And he would just sit for two hours and tell stories. And they were stories you and I had heard our whole lives. But I sat there and laughed at the same parts. And I waited for the punchline. I mean, Zach just watched the outlawed Josie Wales on his vacation.

Yeah. Why did you do that, Dad? Nostalgia. I don't know. I still enjoy it. Because they're still good. But when you think about it, I'm convinced that whoever wrote that, they've been reading a Bible. Because when he got to the end, I mean, just think about the book of James.

There's a point that is emerged as a theme. The words of life and death. Yeah. It shall be life. That was the movie. I got into character there. Ten bears. I mean, but really, is that not what James?

He gives you the cycle of death? And the cycle of life and what it looks like in your life. Well, and the idea that it keeps going is the concept. And I love that idea. Jason, you and I, you more than me, because you had a close relationship with him, but he was one of my mentors too. We lost another, not lost, but another crossover mentor this last week. You hear us talking about Jim McGuigan, and he finally crossed over.

But he, man, I mean, that guy, he's just, you realize now we're getting at the age where all the people that, like, taught us a lot are now crossing over, which makes us, it makes me kind of have a little bit of melancholy. But at the same time, it makes me like think, man, we got a, we're on the clock here. Well, he taught me a lot, you know, and then as, as God and fate would have it, you know, we became friends later on in his life. And he contributed to the podcast because he sent you. You know, all this stuff. Oh, yeah. Well, I hired him because just to send me any thoughts or emails, but, you know, I did it because he kind of felt like he didn't have a purpose, you know. Right.

Because he used to tell me, he's like, I mean, I got old and these people aren't asking me to preach. Yeah. And I'm like, well, tell me. And he's like, what? But, no, it's, what's weird is I've always kind of, you know, been a loner. But, and I don't have, I'm like that tombstone. You remember when he was, they had, something had just happened, pivotal in the movie. I guess they had just had the gunfight.

And they were discussing where Wyatt Earp was. And he said, old Doc Holliday said, well, I suppose he's down there walking on the water. That was after he shot, Curly Bill. Yeah, and so they're having this conversation. And so Doc Holliday just starts hacking. The guy played, you know, it was his best role. It's like play that you're dying. He's over there just hacking his guts up.

And they're like, what are you even out here? And he said, because wide erp is my friend. And one of the other guys is like, I got lots of friends, and he said, I don't know. So that's the way I kind of feel about Mr. Jim. I called him Big Jim, which is funny because he was a little man, a small Irishman. But I thought, where else other than the kingdom of God, could you have a man from Ireland?

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That's QUO.com slash Unashamed. Well, and it had a long history, too. this is one of those God things because the people that taught us in school were his peers at sunset out in Lubbock. He was an instructor there. So he had a tie to our area and our church way back before we were even born.

I mean, that was like the mid to late 60s. That's when you and I were being born. And there was a tie. And so it was amazing that it looked back all those years later through relationship. Yeah, I'd met him a couple times. But for whatever reason. We've had him speak here several times.

Yeah, we just, you know, we found, kind of found each other. And when you study the Bible as much as we do and he does, it makes for an interesting, you know, friendship. It's a safe place to go over all this crazy stuff you're thinking and reading. And they had the family asked you to speak at his people? They did. I mean, you know, it's like when it's, I feel kind of like when, when, when, you know, our dad died, I'm like, oh, really? Because I'm emotionally invested in this, and you're like, don't have a meltdown.

But it's an honor because I just really feel like he really helped me study the Bible. And he was just kind of out of the box, not ordinary view. But it made it, I think he got. it right. This book is about a person. And just all the stories you used to tell to kind of illustrate that was when I was a teenager and all, I was like, now this, this sounds right. And, you know, at that time I wasn't sure, but it kind of taught me how to study, I guess, in a way where it just didn't seem like, okay, this is what we believe you're here. It revealed the personal relationship. I still remember one of my favorites.

His favorite illustrations that he did, the first time I heard him speak, he was describing a gate at a concentration camp during the Holocaust. And he said it in German, and then he said, then he translated it. It says, work will set you free. Oh, yeah. And which was, you know, what was over the gate is these Jews are coming in. And, of course, he said, it's a lie. It's a damnable lie. He said, it was a lie then and it's still a lie today.

You know you're good. That was 30 years ago, and I still remember the illustration of it. It was so powerful. Well, it's funny. I think everybody goes through stages. And it's like when my dad got over 60, I was like, he had preach a sermon. And since I was kind of the spokesman for the family to go tell our dad something we were kind of getting concerned about, I was only approached when it was bad news I had to give him.

But I said, Phil, that was a great sermon, but you seemed angry. And he's like, what are you talking about? No. But I had that same conversation with Big Jim. I was like, every once in a while, you seem angry. He said, oh, I am. I was never expecting that. But he was like, you know, I mean, because then he was, you know, he made the point.

I mean, he was always saying points like, we are to be the most excited people. You know, it's the good news of Jesus. And he would just, he would get so into it. He's like, well, what's wrong with him? But he's raising his voice. And he's like, I'm a yeller. I can't help it. But, you know, I appreciated that.

He was unoffendable, which I think is why we became friends. and I am too. But the old schoolers, you know, they were yellers, and Bill Smith was the same way. But what I was going to say, though, is he evolved, kind of like our dad, where then he got real kind of sweet at the end. And everything was beautiful. So I think that's just part of being a human and getting toward the end of this life. There's something about that that softened you up a bit.

And so But I'm so glad They asked you to do To speak and you're doing it Because it's a It is an honor for For great men Who have impacted a lot of people

And getting to do Getting to speak at Bill Smith's funeral There were a lot of people in the audience That would have loved to have been able to say The impact he had on them Yeah So I realized I was not just Had the honor doing it myself

But I was representing a lot of other people So a lot of people afterwards like oh man, you know, I would have loved, I said, I know. And I'm so humbled I got the opportunity because I was representing them. Because this is a guy that had a wide influence on a lot of people, you know. Yeah. Oh, well, okay. I'd hate to know where I was.

There's something about. I ordered a couple of his commentaries, I think on Daniel. So he's written, I mean, he's written some books. He's written almost 40 books. But I'm going to just tell you this now that I feel like I can be a spokesman partly. every time he says how many books he's written he says they're not very good and people i think would would think oh exactly like him though because they're written in very scholarly form well it is but his point the reason he says that i know that point because we've had this discussion because i told him i was like

big jim every time you say that whoever's in charge of selling your books they are literally angry at you there's a loud groan i was like because you do you do it's a loud groan i was like because you do it every time. Every time you mention a book. He's like, I've written a book on that. Like he'll be speaking and then he'll say, it's not very good. But I do think you'll find it helpful. But the reason he said that is because I think he felt a little guilty in his earlier years

for getting so complex and so into the weeds that he missed. that he missed the simple aspect of the relationship part, which is what drew me to him. I mean, there's multiple illustrations that I heard him give, that he might have got from somebody else, but that I use today. The one about, I'll hold the Bible up, every event I do, I hold the Bible up,

and I'll say, what's this about? And I'll say, Jesus is coming to Earth, Genesis to Malachi. Jesus is here, Matthew through John, Acts to the Revelation, he's coming back. Well, I got that from him. I heard him say that. I mean, I had to be a teenager when I first heard that. And I was like, are you kidding me? This is, that was amazing.

That was revolutionary to me. Because from my mind, being a young Christian, I thought, how am I going to wrap my head around this? You know, you have to have that foundational piece. Another illustration he does that is fantastic. he'll use I've seen him use different things but I think the last time

I was mindful of that illustration he had a watch on and he took it off and he had the Bible in one hand and a watch in the other and he's like this watch if you gave this to somebody who had never seen one through time

ironically they would be they'd be able to learn and tell you about the pieces, the spindle, the little knob, the clock, the arm. Even if they had no concept. But if they never knew what it was for, it'd all be a waste of time.

And so he said that, and then he held the Bible up, and he's like, this is what we do in churches. We talk about the journeys and the missionary journeys and the facts and how many books there are and all these things. If you never get what it's for, you've wasted your entire life. It's pretty powerful.

Yeah. It's pretty powerful. He also had the great line that preaching was not about memorization. It was about explanation, which is a fantastic line. Because a lot of times people get up and quote a ton of stuff. It's like if we're just supposed to be impressed by your ability to memorize scripture, over explaining what it means to us, which is great.

I mean, I took that and applied it directly into my, you know, preaching because he was right. It was much more important to make sense out of what you were talking about rather than just quote 12 proof text, you know how people do it a lot of times with preaching. Well, and so I think he evolved, and so he has almost 500 videos, his daughter, who's lovely. I mean, I'm using his words.

She's lovely. She really is. He's great. And she's been, you know, with him every step of the way and helped him, especially the last few years and her husband. But they have several videos. And those are really, I think, his best work. I know he wrote all them books, but that, you know, they are complex. And they were over my head at that stage of my life.

But, you know, people should never feel bad about books like that. I know you do because we change in life. But, you know, we're all, we live through seasons. And so if you write books, it's just the season you're in that moment. And if you were in a season where he was training people and it was scholarly-looking approach, it was what it was. And later work, videos, whatever. So we should never feel bad about that. It's just a snapshot.

That's why the Bible is so powerful because it stays the same, but we change as we study it. And it impacts us in a different way. So I know why he says said what he said about it. Because I feel the same way. We've written books, too, and you look back in the, oh, man, I wish I had. That's the first thing I say. I was like, I wrote a book. It's not very good.

But it's my story. What was the season of where you were in the moment? I mean, it's. ologically, I wasn't in a, in a, in a, good place now. But at the end of the day, to my point about him, which is what led me to him. You know, he told an illustration about the Lord. Lord's supper. And he's like, you know, if you take the most special relationship in your life, your wife, you know, if you, if you, you know, wrote letters, if you talked about the letters you

wrote, if you honored this person, I mean, if you just went through all this, they had a supper in their name, all the things that we do for Jesus, his point was, yet you never, actually spent time with this person, well, what good would it be? And I think that's so profound. It's like you don't just check boxes as a follower of Jesus. Jay's, you and I are brothers, which means we shared the DNA of our parents. This is a really nice way of saying, you got my mom's body type, and I got my dad's. And I was, yeah, exactly right.

So we get to the middle age part. for me it was probably around mid-40s and my metabolism up to that point it had been great And all of a sudden, I just couldn't burn that fat the way I used to could. And so it all piles up mostly right here in the belly right up front. You got to get to that underlying problem. You've got to get that metabolism reset so that your body is working with you, not against you. And I learned this from my good friends at PhD weight loss. Here's a picture of me at the beginning of the journey about a year and a half ago.

Here I am today. Still holding off the weight. New lifestyle for me, much healthier. I'm off my meds. I'm off my CPAT machine that I had had for 12. 12 years, which is a great blessing. I have more energy. I'm able to exercise. You can do the same thing. Right now, call and mention Al Robertson. You'll get two free weeks, and they'll pay for the cost of your food, which is a $1,500 value. You call 864-644-1900, or you go to my PhD weightloss.com.

That's 864-644-4-1900 or go to my PhD weightloss.com because the goal is not just losing the weight once, but it's never having to start over again. Again, that's 864, 644-1900 to go to my Ph.D. Weight Loss.com. One of the things that I respected about Jim so much was when we were, I was working at the church and Howard Books was still here, and they did a book that he wrote about his wife because she had been, she had an illness or something. I can't remember the details, but for the last several years of their marriage.

Oh, yeah. And look, he was all over the place. Part of that time they were in Ireland and part of it they were here in the U.S., but he never, he took care of her. Oh, he was so devoted. She was totally dependent on someone else. Right. I asked him about it one time.

And that touched me so much as, you know, a young man and especially in a struggling marriage. But those things matter. I mean, that mattered to me because I was in ministry like him. And so I just thought, man, could I do that? As much as I was doing for the church and other people, could I be that devoted, you know, if I needed to be. And that spoke to me in a power of a world. He did it with a smile on his face. But his response was when he was like, look, when I was at my worst, she was at her best.

Do the math. I mean, look, she was down for years. Years and years and years. And he just... Was her name, Ethel? Ethel. Yeah, Miss Ethel. And she died like the day after Easter or the day before,

because I remember that being a thing, he was like, oh, if you're going to die. And he's like, I may killover while I'm doing this. He's like, just think, isn't that? that nice. I mean, what an attitude, you know. I mean, there's some people, I think, that are so focused on the relationship, their relationship with God, and they're studying His Word every day for hours, and then just can't help speak about it.

That they're just, they look forward to, I mean, death is nothing that they're not looking forward to. So I do have, I mean, to me, that's been the encouragement, because I've listened to this man for as many hours as you could imagine. And he's confident. Yeah. Confident in where he is. Yeah, which is powerful. That's why you live that way.

And anyway, I guess it's an honor for us to be able to talk about a great man. So I appreciate it. Yeah, I'll give you a report how it goes. But, of course, it's not, you know, about me. But I think it'll be a wonderful celebration and just a charge. to look, gulp. We got to carry the legacy here and the load. Well, I was saying that since we started this podcast, the first guy was Keller.

I remember we used to quote and do a lot of Keller stuff, and then he crossed over, kind of more unexpectedly in his case, I think. But then, and then, of course, dad, you know, who mentored all of us. And so now McGregas, it feels like, you know, a lot of people that have had input for what we're doing for the podcast. Now we're honoring them by keeping going. So, which is why we do it, right? That is true.

Yeah, well, he's a warrior. I'll tell you that. No doubt. That's what we live for. So James is where we left off. And we were doing the, we're in the section in James 313 through 18 about the two kinds of wisdom. And we didn't go into a lot on the negative side, but we, you know, it's pretty evident. We did talk about bitter envy, selfish ambition.

There's an arrogance, boastful arrogance he talked about as a result of that. And then also dishonesty, which is, he says, denying the truth. That's sort of the fruit that comes from the worldly wisdom. And that's the description of it. And then we said about that, it produces some things. It produces disorder, chaos. It produces more evil, because it says every evil practice, which are kind of the catastrophes that come from that.

And it kind of reminded me, that where we were in chapter 1, 13 through 15, the highway to hell, remember days, the process that gets you there. So those were the other side. And so then he flips that back and he says, but wisdom that comes from heaven is, and then he lists eight different fruits or words that come from that. And we talked about purity in the last one. And then Jesus.

Well, like purity in a kind of a different, I mean, like a, because that exact word, I think, was only, well, let me look. I got it right here. I got the list. And I told you, the word that came to my mind from Matthew 5, 8, when Jesus used the same thing, blessed of the pure in spirit or pure in heart, was innocent. The idea, there's a chaste innocence about the fruit that comes from this, which started with Jesus.

So that word pure here in the Greek only used 18. times but you're right it's elsewhere translated innocent yeah uh well 1 Timothy 5 has pure or free from sin uh pure or you're chaste yeah so those verses uh 1 John 3 3 I don't know if that's what is that 1 John we just studied 1 John 3 what's that say everyone who's who has this hope in Jesus, oh, becoming like him, purifies himself just as he is pure. Yeah. Which is why I like that link back to him.

So in this context, though, he's obviously talking about your relationships. So when you, and I read the Greek definition of that after I put in the parameters. of what do these Greek words mean? Just stick with grammar, context, and biblical overview. And so for that one, it was free from mixed or hidden motives in relationships. It represents complete transparency and integrity. Yeah.

And approach completely devoid of hidden agendas, manipulation and selfish ambition. Yeah, that's so good. We talked about that, remember at the end of the podcast, it's because everything, if you could approach life without a motive of trying to get your own way or to get up on somebody and to gain an advantage, I mean, that's what it's talking about. It's not approaching people that way. There's such a sincerity about this idea of purity, which is powerful. Well, then we did peace loving, which was the next one.

And I said that the only place that one is, The exact phrase that was used was in Hebrews chapter 12. That's where we left off. Hebrews 12. 11. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. So you remember this.

I mean, this kind of goes in with what we were talking about, about Big Jam. You know, you have this heroes of faith. And, you know, at the end of Hebrews 11, talking about faith, and we had made the point that, which is another big gym quote, which is where I got the idea, if you have faith, are you faithful? Yeah. Are you righteous? Are you right in your relationships?

I mean, he's the one that taught me that through the Greek words. So when you look at all this, these bad things that happened to them in the end of chapter 11, floggings, and, you know, there's a verse in here where, where it says others were tortured and refused to be released so that they might gain a better resurrection. Some face jeers and flogging while still others were chained and put in prison. They were stone. They were sawed in two.

They were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins, goat skins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated. The world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains and in caves and holes in the ground. These were all commended for their faith. yet none of them received was promised. God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

So then he goes in, and we have these witnesses who's gone on before. So let's focus on Jesus, run the race. And then it leads into verse 4 in this, in your struggle against sin, you've not resisted to the point of shedding blood. And then he starts talking about the Lord's discipline, endure hardship as discipline, verse 7 of 12. God is treating you as sons.

What son is not disciplined by his father? So we read all that just to say, no matter what comes your way, whether it's discipline or whether you're just being attacked by the evil one, which is going to happen, especially if you go public. He brings up this peace in the spirit of that

that's going to be produced. What's he talking about? You know, how can you have peace with all that going on? I mean, when you start thinking that death is not a problem, there's a peace that comes with that. There's a way to act with people that, without agendas and manipulation and all this, that brings a peace to all this conflict and yow-yao and cuss fights.

And there's some calms in the story. But you learn that quality through going through the tough times yourself. Exactly. Difficult. God is for that. This is, which is why I read all that. I mean, I think we really struggle with this in following Jesus. Like, oh, come to Jesus.

He's going to solve all your problems. And your life's going to be great. That's nowhere in there. Yeah. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync. everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales,

using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify. It's like, yeah, you talked about, in the last podcast, you said something about comfort, how we crave comfort and being comfortable. We were talking about building houses. Why would you build a house? Yeah, I was disappointed in y'all's answer, no offense.

I was like, why do we live in houses? You were like, well, that's just where we live. Oh, that's where we do. No, you asked, why do we? You said, why do we build them? Why do we build? Yeah, why do we build houses? And I said to live there, which is true.

But I was kind of thinking deeper a little bit. a bit. Why don't we just all walk around? Well, you just added an adjective to what we said to live comfortably. But what I was thinking about was because I'm preparing all week for a sermon, which I'll tell you about Monday. We'll see how it turns out that it's about Job. It was interesting because Job was a man who feared God and who shunned evil. That was the description of him, by the writer and by God twice.

and but Job was he was comfortable because Satan was getting ready to attack him he's that well the only reason he fears you and is you know and shuns me he didn't say shuns me but that was the other part of it is because he's he's got everything

he's set up he's blessed there's a hedge of protection right he's got his family there he's like he's loving life you know he's not being challenged was what Satan said and God says in his wisdom so challenge okay challenge it

I mean, he had full confidence in Joe's ability. So he goes through all these difficult times, which is what I'm going to be talking about. But he gets into chapter three when it all just goes to pot. And he says something really interesting. He said, the things I have feared the most have happened to me. I have no comfort. I have no peace. He says that in his little thing.

And so for the first time, like, he's challenged to littered to the bone in this moment as he's sitting there. And that's when you have to make the decision about what you really believe in. And I think that's what we're talking about here. You read this text like in Hebrews 12. He's saying, in the good days, it's pretty easy. In the comfortable days, it's not that hard. But in the challenging days, that's when it matters. And I love the illustration, Jason, in the rest of chapter 12,

because he basically gives you a picture of two mountains. He's like, you got that Mount Sinai where it was trembling and fear and everybody's scared what's going to happen here. And this was the first covenant with God. And then he pictures Mount Zion in the heavenly Jerusalem and the new kingdom. And he's like, it's a peaceful place. I mean, fear now is a whole different picture and a vision for it.

So it's a consistent theme throughout the whole Bible. I love the concept of it. When you read that passage in Exodus, when they have the encounter with God on Mount Sinai, they ask Moses, do not. not let God get near us or we will die. So you see that picture, they withdrew. They like, we can't get around His Holiness.

And the picture of the new mountain is it's one that can be touched. And I think that's the, I mean, that's the whole thing is that God does, he makes himself available and where we can actually be with him in his presence. Yeah. Yeah, we were talking about Big Jim, which I think I'm going to read that, you know, the is. illustration that our friend Mac Owen. The Great Cloud of Witnesses? Yeah, because, you know, it's like, my grandpa died. I remember Max said he got his Bible out, and he put his name alongside those.

It was very powerful. Yeah, his chapter, around his tax, he has wide margins that you can write, and there's just names. But what my point I was going to make was, you know, Big Jim. He moved from his home country. Not unlike, you know, Abraham in that light, comes over here. He's living in his daughter's basement. You know, money. He'd care nothing about that.

That's why he would make those comments about the books. Because you would like, if you were ever trying to sell them, you're not going to sell them if you're telling everybody, they're not very good. And he did it every time. He cared nothing about that. But you're talking about a joy in a human being, which was another reason I was drawn to him,

he couldn't be more excited and more proud of his family and his relationships and his sons and his daughter. It just was fascinating to me because I'm looking, I'm like, this guy has nothing. He does not care at all. He don't have a car.

He doesn't have a house. He doesn't have any money. He just went all in for Jesus, and all he wanted to do was talk about the Lord Jesus. So he was, he was, looking at what we call difficulty as not difficult. Right. I mean, he was perfectly content.

It's hard to have that kind of peace in life when you don't have any kind of material possessions, nor do you want them. So I think that was a true sign. You'll go to the next? Yeah, next word is gentle. Well, translated gentle. Let's take a look at that. Considerate is the word in the NIV.

Or is that a different one? Consider it. A willingness to waive one's legal or strict rights for the sake of relationship. Ooh, I hadn't read these where I'm reading these with you. Rather than insisting on absolute justice or demanding to win an argument. Uh-oh, Zach, we're in trouble. This word considers human frailty and prioritizes mercy over rigid regulations. Yeah, this was another one, Jace, from the sermon on the Mount.

Jesus, when he was talking about the, he said, you've heard it's an eye, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tube. But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him take your cloak as well. The concept about not being retaliatory in everything that's done to you, I think, is kind of the concept. I'm looking for where this word has used other places. It's used five times.

It is used in Philippians 4 or 5. Let your gentleness be known by all. Yep. First Timothy 3-3, Titus 3-2. Oh, that's the qualification for elders and all. Oh, yeah. They have to have that quality. Yeah.

Interesting. All right. Which one's next? But I have considered it. Was that the same one? No, the same one. Okay. So the fourth one would be, look, it's very difficult because they put them in different orders based on your translation.

Right. So mine, the NIV says submissive. Let's see what the ESV says for the fourth one. Let's see, James three. What verse? 17. We're still looking at the fourth quality. We just did gentleness, which looked to a man.

Man's man the way we were raised. That's the last thing that you want to be about anything. And so that's why I said these things were so wrecking for me. It's like a wrecking ball. But you mentioned, I think gentleness seems to be one. And it's interesting that you just brought up that twice it's used to characteristics of elder. there is something about as men get older, most, a lot of times, especially when your heart's right, I guess.

You tend to become more gentle. Yeah. And we used the word sweet a minute ago, but I mean, certainly our mentors were that way. They weren't so gentle when they were working on us, which is probably a good thing. All right, I did look this up. And the ESVIT says, open to reason.

So I did look this up. Yeah. Now look, this is a bizarre phrase. It took me a while to wrap my head around it. So let me show you it's an unusual word. So you can't, it's the only time it's used because it took two words, two Greek words and put it into one. So this is it. That's why I said, is that that word that I was having trouble with?

Yeah. So open to reason. Then IV says submissive. So here's the two words that it, that went together. I think this is kind of interesting. The first one is every time when you, like in Matthew 25, 21 and 23 where it says, well done. So that's the first word. Well, that's all over the place. But even think about, You know, the words that, like, when you die and you hear that saying, well done. Good faithful service. Yeah, yeah, you've heard that. So it's that word combined with this word, which is mostly translated trust or persuaded. So what he's saying is, based on my analysis of it, it's like you're really. really good at putting off this vibe of persuading in a trustworthy manner. That's the way you should try to do this.

Because it's hard to persuade anybody to do anything. And usually what are the worldly ways for persuasion? Lying, conning, arguing. This is more, when you put all of these things together, which we have, you know, a phrase that was invented from these two words where you're, you're wanting to approach people in a way that's persuading them in a way that's inspiring. Yeah. You're doing this well, the way you're coming across.

I mean, look, it's something I've never thought about. The fact that I haven't thought about it is why I think this is in here. But again, it's just think. It's about. But that's why it builds, though, Jay. That's why we started with pure, because if your motive isn't right by the time we get to this point,

then you're persuading the wrong way. See what I'm saying? If you start with this with pure motive in the sense that you're only trying to help people, when they get to that realization and are persuaded about something good, then it's a good thing in their lives. And not a bad thing.

Not when they look up and say, wait a minute, my wallet's empty. This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales, using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify.

You know why this is so foreign to us is because this doesn't happen very often. And it's also from heaven. people are not engaging with other people with this kind of attitude. That's right. They're like, I want to just be totally without agenda, without manipulation. I want to persuade you gently and from a trustworthy frame of reference. I have nothing to gain whatsoever. I mean, it's pretty powerful.

So that's why I've had trouble putting that into English. because it took not only one Greek word, took two. It's the only place that's in the New Testament. I found that fascinating. I thought of the word accommodating. And, you know, it took me back to, I referenced here Genesis 13, when Abram and Lot, remember when they left and they get, you know, they get basically to what will be later the Promised Land.

And so now they've gotten so successful, they need more ruin. They've got to spread out. And so Abram is like, well, you pick where you, you know, and so he looks down at the planes, and he's a, ooh, that looks easy down there. It's a lot harder up in the mountain. And Abrams like, well, okay, he's very accommodating. He's like, you go down there. But, of course, what happens, it was a terrible idea because once he got down there,

he got into the worst culture ever, which wind up costing him everything. But from Abrams' perspective, he was very accommodating. He had this idea of persuasion. Well, I think you see this. I mean, like, I'll give you a practical example. It's like, because in our family, this was, not only did we not know what this word was, this never happened.

We're not coming to trying to persuade you in a nice, fluffy way whatsoever. But what I thought about, because like my dad, he would be like, hey, get over it. Well, you know, that's not what this is about. Just move on, because then you're mad and just like, get over. I mean, you don't even, you haven't even heard the argument or whatever the situation was. But it made me think, you know, one day our dad quoted that First Peter 315,

always be prepared to give an answer for the reason for the hope that you. Yeah. And then, but I said, but do this with gentleness and respect. And he went, ooh-hoo. He was looking back. Looking to see if it actually said that. Yeah, yeah. It's still there.

I was like, oh, that's there. Yeah. It's in there. Ooh. It's so funny. In that one moment, he was convicted. Yeah. Because he was just like, bring the fire, you know.

Do you do his little laugh? That's why one of the greatest parodies was Willie's famous Phil Robertson announcements. Yeah, reading the bulletin. Top ten things that have ever. Top ten. parodies I've ever heard. Phil, Willie as Phil, reading the bulletin.

And it was, he, I don't know where he got that bulletin, but it was like a bulletin from a church 75 years ago. It was from our church. But it had that vibe. Chicken dinner. You know, chicken plates. And he was like,

you know that's my chicken? George Washington. Yeah, he went through all the founding fathers. I mean, what are you doing? You gotta eat, don't you? Yeah. Who doesn't like chicken?

For crying out loud. Yeah, it was a, that was the point. You know, what was funny was we were filming for the show at the building that day. And this was just like, we were waiting. You're always waiting around for production. And so Willie just, because he gets bored, he was like, Al, grab that phone. I got an idea. And we just literally did it in between scenes we were filming for the show.

That was just right off the top of his end. It was classic. It was gold. Well, then the next two are phrases because it's full of mercy. So it's hard to look that up. Yeah. But it's a throwback to when he said in chapter two about mercy triumphing over judgment. And it's just the spirit of when you're dealing with people in confrontation.

I mean, being full of mercy is you're willing to forgive this person. person, you're willing to, you know, find a pathway to reconciliation instead of alienation. So. Well, and it's in this anticipation, Jay, that you're going to be wronged. I mean, the only time you're going to need mercy is when someone wrongs you. When Jesus talked about this, again, back to the sermon on the Mount, he put it in the context of love your neighbor, but and also love your enemies. It was the way he put it. And it was like, because you have an anticipation that people are going to wrong you. When that happens, you are always going to have a decision to make, do I retaliate? Is it, is it eye for eyes, a tooth for tooth?

Or am I willing to show mercy when someone else doesn't deserve it? Because that's when mercy kicks in. And this illustration is so vivid because you think, in my mind, I think, well, here's a full glass of water. And I'm like, how much he's given that illustration. This is mercy. and it's brimming full. And it just, even if you just get around it and bang the table, it spills out over in everything.

Most people have a couple of drops in the bottom of a cut. They got to get a straw to get it. I'm including myself in the word most. I mean, we're laughing to keep from crying. Look, this is so convicting. When you start stacking all these qualities together, it just, it does. It's not a good reflection of the way I've operated on the earth.

No, and we're almost out of time. We'll have to pick it up next time. But I was thinking we started this out, I was telling about driving back and forth. When you're on the road as much as I am, I mean, literally on the road and driving, and there's construction and people having to get down to one lane, you have this concept of mercy.

I had it, you know, 10 times yesterday on the road. What kind of driver am I going to be? Am I going to be like some other people are doing to me or am I going to be merciful? It's a consistent challenge. I actually thought about our text. And just to finish reading them, we'll go through the last three or four, I guess, next time.

But it's another phrase, good fruit, which is an interesting dynamic, then impartial or unwavering and sincere or without hypocrisy. Yeah, non-hit people are critical. Peacemakers, who so in peace, raise a harvest of righteousness. All right.

So we'll pick it up there next time. Don't an unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.