Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1395 | Jesus Challenges the Role Women Are Expected to Play

Episode Date: August 10, 2026

Al, Jase, and Zach take a fresh look at the expectations placed on women through the story of two very different sisters, including what happens when one steps outside the role her culture expected. The guys wrestle with the double standards people create for different personalities and why being “wired differently” never excuses jealousy, control, selfish ambition, or a bad attitude. They also look back at Phil’s first reaction to the idea of podcasting—a story that may make a lot more sense once the original “lost” episodes that eventually became “Unashamed” start dropping soon.  In this episode: James 3, verses 17–18; Luke 10, verses 38–42; John 11, verses 17–27; John 11, verses 32–35; James 4, verse 7; Matthew 13, verses 1–23; John 15, verses 1–8; Matthew 7, verses 16–20; Romans 12, verse 9; Matthew 10, verses 34–39 “Unashamed” Episode 1395 is sponsored by: Download the FREE Upside App and use promo code Unashamed to get an extra 25 cents back for every gallon on your first tank of gas https://preborn.com/unashamed — Visit the PreBorn! website or dial #250 and use keyword BABY to donate today. https://www.wildalaskan.com/UNASHAMED — Get $35 off your first box of wild-caught, sustainable seafood delivered right to your door. http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/ — Sign up now for free, and join the Unashamed hosts every Friday for Unashamed Academy Powered by Hillsdale College Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/at-home-with-phil-robertson/id1835224621 Listen to Not Yet Now with Zach Dasher on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or anywhere you get podcasts. Chapters 00:00 Phil’s Reaction to Podcasting 04:11 The Lost “Unashamed” Episodes  07:19 Jase Is the Guest Who Never Left 14:02 Different Personalities, One Body of Christ 17:28 Jase Reconsiders Mary & Martha 22:16 Martha Gets a Bad Rap 31:42 Jesus’ Deep Bond with His Friends 35:20 When Serving God Looks Less Like Jesus 39:37 Selfish Ambition Can Poison a Church 43:01 The Process of Producing “Good Fruit” 47:13 What Biblical Impartiality Looks Like 50:23 Peace Doesn’t Mean Comfort 52:33 Jesus’ Surprising Warning About Peace — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Whether life serves you an ace or an unexpected backhand, the high-protein yogurt, Oikos Pro, is there to feed your strength and help you turn every challenge into a smash. Oikos Pro helps build strong muscles and support muscle recovery with high protein and contains no added sugar. Because true strength isn't about being able to take the hits. It's about being able to bounce back. Oikos Pro Feed your strength. Visit oikos.Ca for more details. I am unashamed. What about you? So welcome back to Unashamed. We, uh, still working on our jet lag from me. I just got in last night. I came home because I'm preaching Sunday. And I'm also speaking at an event here, which by the time this airs will have already happened.

But it, uh, it's, you remember a year or two ago, we met Jobie Martin. Zach? Yeah, he was in speaking at this event. It's called Dry Men's Bones. He was on the podcast. Yeah. Yeah. But he was here for that event, which is then he spoke, then he was on our podcast. So I'm speaking there this year, and Kyle Thompson's going to speak as well. And I'm excited because this is the first opportunity since our movie came out that I'll be able to use some of the footage from the movie, which Zach is the main reason that I wanted to make the movie about Lisa and I was so I could. used the footage for my presentations for our marriage stuff and also for the this in this case

it'll be my testimony so i'm super excited i have to let you know how it turns out so zack you said before i think the last podcast that you had unearthed the um original uh unashamed idea but we weren't even calling it unashamed then we had some other name for it was yeah we were calling it something different we all calling it the last thing lost episodes. I didn't know if that was Zach's production. Oh,

we had some lost episodes. And you said, I'm on one. It was me, it was me and Dan and dad originally. Because they approached

Zach and I, back then we had a production company, a separate production company than what you guys have now. And they approached us about, about dad doing a podcast. Of course,

I mean, I didn't even know what a podcast was. Dad should, he said, pod. pod. Do we get in a pod? Look, he went cast. We cast a rod.

There's nothing about a pod. How would I cast out of them? If I'm in a pod, how would I cast? You remember he turned us down? He said, nah, that's a dumbest idea. And then I waited like a couple days and went back and said, hey, what about an internet Bible study? He said, now you're talking dash.

He said, Zach, the apostle Paul, if he's, He had access to this internet. If he could turn it on, that's what he would be using. So, yes, I'm in for that. So that was the idea. And I just thought, Dad was like, okay, I'm just going to preach. I said, well, Dad, that's not really what, it's got to be a discussion. Because then I went.

At first we were, we were contracted to do like 100 episodes a year or whatever it was. And so we recorded like 12. And they're good. And they're really good. But you've watched. And I'm on one? How was I own one? I don't understand.

That was the weirdest part. I don't know how that one. It was probably me. I didn't want to do it. I was like, I had enough work going on. I think it was the idea of being a guest. That's what it was. You are a guest.

I was a guest. I was a guest. Because I remember thinking, why would I want to go on there and have Phil dominate the conversation? and I'd be a pinata, which I grew to love that character, you know, because look, my dad, he, but I remember him. I probably, Jay's, I don't remember this, but I probably said, Jay's, I mean, I'm having to do, because then I became the host, and I was like, well, I don't want to host. This is like, I'm not even getting paid. This is what's funny how you became the host. I became the guest that never left.

That's what I remember. And Dan became the guy that just faded away. Yeah, I remember Phil saying. Hey, do you know, he said, when you get on your little computer screen, he said, it all starts off with W-WW. He said, I recently figured out what that means. He said, the World Wide Web. So that took me back to thinking the first time we got into Walmart,

I look out there, because everybody's excited, and he went in front of the shop that he had to tear down the front wall of to get the machinery in, patched it back up, but still there was a lot of debris there. And he got an old board that he had ripped off from the building. And I saw him.

He had a can of white spray paint. I was just watching this process. I thought, what is he doing with the scratch? piece of board in white spray paint. And he got it and I couldn't see what it said, but he went to the entrance of our old shop, which was a population of two. Me and him, the people that went in there.

And he nailed up this old broken piece of board. And it said, Duck Commander, Worldwide. See, he's always been in truth. a picture of that somewhere. I would love to... We need to find that picture. I would love to find that picture.

It is. And that thing stayed there for years. Yeah, just... And it was crooked. It was crooked. It was a skew, Zach. It was so classic. It was one of those things where dad, it wasn't like...

He didn't, like, plan it that way, but it was so good that it was that way, because it was just like... My point is, he's always been fascinated with going worldwide, but especially for Jesus. Yeah. And so that's what got him about. Well, we were... It was... I mean, it was... when I found these, because we were doing some server work and stuff,

and I said, oh, we got these original episodes that nobody's ever seen. I mean, y'all hadn't even seen. I hadn't even seen them. I haven't seen. And I was there. Well, for one. Yeah. And you were there.

So we're going to, you can get them on the new platform. We're doing a new platform called Echle, which is short for Ecclesia, but it's essentially a partner with Michael Scott, some other guys who are in the film business. Because one of the things that I've wanted to do from the beginning, is just create more places for Christians and families to go to good content because it's just so much built and trash out there. And so we're launching this thing. It's launched now.

It's got a lot of movies on there, other blinds on there, a lot of Christian faith-based movies, family-friendly movies. But we're also doing ad-free podcast. You can get this podcast, Sadie's podcast is on there or it will be. Duck Call Room, Priscilla Shire and her son. And it's ad-free, right? It's all ad-free. And so we're going to put these 12, we're going to start dripping these 12 episodes over the next few weeks.

I think it's 12 that we're going to do that are the original unashamed. And it's a lot of Phil, which is, I mean, we all miss Phil. And so it's like Phil at its finest, too. The reason why this whole thing happened, though, was because I was watching the podcast. I was like, man, this is going to be to do a hundred of these. because, you know, Phil, he was very singular focused. I mean, he was going, I mean, just like when we did the blind, I remember Jace looked at the thing.

He said, you didn't say the words, death, burial, and resurrection in the film. And so we went back into that little edit at the end because Phil was, he was going to preach that same thing every time. And I knew we had to get more of the dynamic of what was happening in that living room all those years of Bible study and discussions and this, you know, and that's when you came on, Jace, and then I was watching the interaction. I was like,

we've got to get Jason on this thing. That's going to be the key to the whole thing. And then little did you know, Jason, that was an audition that now has led to 1,400. To be honest, that I had zero interest. It's wild. I mean, like how it started

and what we're doing now, 1,400. I mean, that's like, that's like an hour at episode. And we're talking, many episodes have we done 1400 so right at 1400 i don't know you're making my head hurt well tell me this act just for because since you've recently watched them because i'm anticipating too did we did we have a did we have a theme where we're i could because i can't remember what we did did we just talk in general

about the bible do you yeah yeah it's yeah it's got uh i thought it was a theme i thought it was started it started in genesis is the uh i don't want to i i don't want to watch don't be surprised Well, I don't, yeah, hurry out before I die. Well, I'm just saying. I may fall over between now and then. We're talking about all our mentors across and over, you know. That's not that long for us, possibly.

I could watch it in the afterlife. I do, I do love the idea that it's kind of been a God thing all along because I always thought it was ironic that the first person that had a show, post Duck Dynasty, was dad, who disliked doing the show more than, than anybody else that was doing it. And then in the woods with Phil was that,

which is that content available as well, Zach? Isn't that, did I hear? That content, we're kind of repurposing it. You can get it on YouTube. Okay. And those are fantastic. Zach and I produced those. We had a production company,

and we had this whole big plan we were going to do out of Torchbear out of the movie, and that thing never really came to light. But then this other thing developed into, in the woods with Phil, and that's where the concept came from a podcast, which again,

podcasting was just kind of really rolling out at this time. This was like 10 years ago. Yeah, we helped be a part of the podcast boom from the early days. From the early days. Oh, yeah, we were. But we're not taking any credit because everybody I knew, including y'all, said, this is probably not going to work. Well, here's what dad said to me.

He said, because, you know, he's wanting to know how we're going to do. The first time we sat down, he said, so how long are we going here? And I said, well, they want us to go like 48 minutes to an hour. And he said, too long, too long. And I said, well, I know that seems long. He said, hey, when you're preaching a sermon, if you can't get there in 30 minutes, you know, the audience is gone. Which he notoriously preached way over 30 minutes. And I said, well, I understand, Dad, but this is not preaching.

That's what I'm telling. This is a discussion. I said, let's just see how it goes. Let me leave me in charge at the time. And of course, we sail past an hour. or dad still, I mean, he's just getting cranked up, you know. To Jay's point, he never went less than an hour when he was someplace speaking. Exactly.

That made me have a weird thought. I'm going to look this up. I'm excited myself personally to go back and watch it because they're really special. And we have a discount for our audience. If you sign up for the annual membership, it's like $5.80, it's only $5.84 a month. month. That's what it, if you do the annual plan. So it's, I mean, it's very inexpensive. And you get 20% off if you use our code unashamed. So the way you would sign up, you would just go to eKKL.com. And then when you sign up, use the code unashamed and you get the 20% added to your off your

end. And let me just say, there's a lot of you out there that it personally complained to me about ads. So this is your way to opt out of ads. So, oh yeah, well, I tell people all the time that they complain about the ads. Yeah, we have production teams and, okay, we have production teams and, equipment and I mean it's it's a it takes money to run this thing but now we have we and I's got to eat over there he got a but now we got a now we have an option for those who don't like the ads um which I'd recommend I don't like the ads so it'd be nice if everybody just went to echo and then we just didn't do ads anymore but you know some of them we'll probably always have an audience on YouTube and Apple and Spotify but yeah

you can go get to you go check it out let you know what you think everything is getting more expensive. Inflation is a real thing. You see it in just about everything, and particularly right now with gas. Oh, no doubt about it. And Lisa and I travel a lot. Obviously, we're back and forth down here. And so you'd recognize that there's a need, you know, for somehow. What can we do to make things cheaper? That's why I'm using the upside app. I know Lisa uses it as well. It's the free, the free upside app. It helps you get cash back on gas, groceries, and dining. All you got to do is open the app. You claim an offer and you pay with your car like normal. Then you get paid. That's it. Super simple. And yes, it's cash back. So you're not going to get points that you're never going to use or credits that expire. It's money you can transfer right to your bank account. There's over 100,000 participating locations. That means you're going to find offers at places you're already going.

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to find out how much more you could earn. Download the free Upside app and use the promo code Unashamed. You get an extra 25 cents back for every gallon on your first tank of gas. That's an extra 25 cents back for every gallon on your first tank of gas using the promo code Unashamed. What I was going to say is the thank the power of podcasts. is that even when we were talking last podcast about me being friends with Big Jim, which is an unlikely pair. I tell you, he's from Ireland, and, you know, he's kind of a preacher.

And we'd take up for the organized church. I was always a rebel in that environment. He's like me. Once you spend your life doing it, you're much more defensive for it, even with her flaws. And I was more out in the world, sharing Jesus and worldly. environments or whatever. Our love for studying the book is what drew us together. And, but we, you know, totally different personalities.

But I even look at my wife. I mean, we're, Al, can we be any different? I mean, we have totally different personalities. And so I told, I told, I think I told you, Zach the other day. No, in our little group, me and Zach are doing a test pilot for a group of men. and we're seeing where they're going. But I sent the guy running that. I was like, we need to do something about women because, and I think I said this on the podcast,

I was like, that's the only experience of my life. I've been knowing my wife 40 years, and I'm just as lost today as I was when I first met her about what she's thinking or, you know, just crickets. But what I was going to say is, in the, context of James talking about dealing with people. Because you say, well, what is the problem? Where's the problem stemming from in churches? Well, do you have a guess?

There's a myriad of reasons. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot more than just one. Well, I was going to say, it's probably the people. Yeah. I say now, Joe, the church work is great, except for the people. Now, we're kidding because we're supposed to love people. You love God and you love your neighbor.

People are messy. We're part of a body in the church. But there's all these weird analogies about, remember when Paul went off into that in the 1st Corinthians 11 or 2nd 11 and 12, one of those, where it's like, if the whole body were in ear, I mean, it's like a funny illustration. I mean, it had to be trying to be funny. Well, what if the whole body of Christ was an ear?

You just see this big ear walking around. They really listen. But we're all different members, different parts of the body, and we form one. But I think that's why James, when we're, this is overall theme, one of his overall themes here is how you treat people as a reflection of your relationship with God. You know, they're all made in God's likeness. Jesus died for them all. we're all going to spend eternity together. If you can't get along with them now,

well, that didn't even make sense. You want to go spend eternity with them? So it's turning that on its head. The illustration I was going to use for that and using these qualities because we're reading these qualities at the end of James 3 in verse 17. And it just seems like, okay, one, maybe I need, you know, I can do. And you stack them all together.

It's very convicting. I think especially for men. The point I was going to make is I think we look at some of these things wrong in the Gospels on how Jesus viewed people. Now we know that he went around and he ate with tax collectors and sinners. He had this right. That's where this is coming from in James writing. But I thought about Mary and Martha because I've heard my wife give lessons on Mary. of Martha. But she's a Martha.

Yeah. And so you're when I made me uncomfortable the first time she said you know, here's what here. I got this lesson I'm going to do and I'm like yeah. And so I'm going to read it to you. I think you'll find this fascinating but she was right. I was wrong. Let me just go ahead and say that.

And I missed the point and because not only are we from different places and and we're just different. We have different personalities in the kingdom. The body is, I mean, let's just face it. There's no rhyme or reason.

Some people are just different personalities than ours, and we're supposedly, you know, we've got to get along here in Christ. That's a reflection of who God is. So I wanted to read this. I find it fascinating. Here's how I was kind of convicted on this. So in Luke 10, 38, we're introduced to Mary and Martha. It says, as Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where

a woman named Martha opened her home to him. She had a sister called Mary who sat at the Lord's feet listening to what he said. I know we're familiar with this, but just watch how this works. But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. But I just want to stop here. You need these people. Like when there's an event or when there's a gathering, the people working behind the scenes, they're 100% serving.

They're working their rear ends off. to make this a success, right? We just tend to think in this story like, oh, terrible. She shouldn't be doing this. Does it really say that? Watch what it says. By the way, Zay, your mom was a Mary. Yeah.

Exactly. She came to him and asked, Lord, don't you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Now, let's just take a time out. Here's a human who's obviously, like my wife, she will confront people with difficult questions. Let's just put it that way. But here you are the creator of the universe in human form.

You're like, don't you care that my sister has left me to do this work by myself? Tell her to help me. There to get up. I mean, look, just read between the line. You're all high and mighty. Everybody's following you. I got an idea, a ministry idea. I'm telling you this is the tone of this conversation.

And I think she thought she was justified. I am working. I'm doing all this. She's just sitting here. Well, I think too, Jess. I think there's an underlying implication, too, that, you know, women in this era, they were the ones, all women were supposed to be prepping. It wasn't a lot of women sitting around listening to Jesus.

It was a man dominated. But how do you think this? She was almost like she was saying, well, she isn't supposed to be here anyway. Well, and how do you think Mary felt about this? My own sister is. telling on me? Yeah, a tattel tail. To this guy who's the son of God, why don't you shut your yapper? So, so I just want to... How many times if you told your kids are, and now my grandkids, quit being a tattel tattel. Like, they come and say, well, she's not doing

what she's. And look, we're laughing about it, but I'm sure this was embarrassing. Yeah, what are you doing? But she feels justified, and look, to my wife's point, she has a point. Yeah. This is not like she's not doing something that's sacrificial and that needs to be done. But it also shows you, Jay's, that the comfort level was already there with Jesus and this family that she could even do this. Well, that's where I'm going with this. Because in 41, he says, Martha. And then Martha. Martha. Martha, Martha. The Lord answered, you are worried and upset about many things. Now, remember, all these qualities that we're reading in James, Jesus is giving you an illustration, because I guarantee you he came without bad motives, without manipulation.

He came pure. He came peace-loving, considerate. Submissive. Yeah, submissive or within reason, using reason, full of mercy, good fruit, impartial, sincere, peacemaker. He's like, you've done, you're upset about all these things, but. few things are needed or indeed only one let's see there's a little asterisk for if i can add it if i can add it while you're looking at if i could add in a fill uh quotation here dad's when he said martha martha you're upset about many things dad would have said calm down

yeah calm down calm down let's just calm down the other translation of that is but only one thing is needed mary has chosen what is better which is different than saying what you're doing is bad. Right. That was kind of Missy's point. Because she's like, I'm a Martha. I like taking care of things and I like serving. The details.

Yeah. She's just, it's a wiring thing. She's always better and it will not be taken away from her. So fast forward to John 11 because now he's going to their house. So evidently, whatever happened, he wasn't taking it personal. No, it's a comfort level. And so, but here's the irony. This is kind of deep.

This is the irony I want you to see. Remember when I did my little irony of Jesus? Well, this is the irony of Mary and Martha. I did another little article. Did you write it down? I didn't write it down, but I did it in my mind. Okay. So in this case, look, so what did he kind of, he didn't chastime.

he just encouraged her to realize in the big picture of things where this is headed Mary's doing better because she wants to hear what I have to say and that is going to become the platform for all humans as far as the way they live their life wasn't necessarily saying what you're doing is bad in this context he's had an abortion when she was 16 years old And it's a regret that she lived with for so many years before finally she could surrender that to Christ, you know, to feel forgiven because of the guilt that's associated with that. At pre-born network clinics, mothers are welcome with compassion, practical support, and a free ultrasound. Because when they see their baby and hear that tiny heartbeat for the very first time, more than 80% choose life. But really, Al, God is life.

Yeah. And we're 100% saying what really matters in life is living and for how long. Yeah. And so I just think that the most vulnerable humans on the planet are ones that are not born yet. But don't ever doubt, they're living humans. That's right. And today, a woman facing an unexpected pregnancy can order the abortion pill online, often before anyone has had the chance to tell her that she's loved, she's not alone,

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That's pound 250 baby. Or you can give securely at preborn.com slash unashamed. That's preborn.com slash unashamed. Well, when their brother gets sick, guess who this time guess which sister goes to Jesus Martha

now when she goes to him and finds him verse 21 Lord well I want to read verse verse it's hard to pick up this in the middle of the sentence all right let me just read 17 of John 11 on his arrival Jesus found that Lazarus

had already been in the tomb for four days now Bethany was less than and two miles. And many Jews had come to Mary, I mean, Martha and Mary, to comfort them in the loss of their brother. Now, when Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went out to meet him.

Now, isn't she doing the very thing that her sister did at the house? Mary went over there and said to his faith, well, she's like, I'm going to Jesus. And what did Mary do? She stayed home this time. Lord, because she's upset, she's grieving that her brother died.

Lord, Martha said to Jesus, Jesus, and here's this personality again, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. Just not true, but she's grieving, and this happened, but she did go to him. And she's, in a sense, she's right, because Jesus is delayed. Remember we heard he was sick? He delayed, so he would die. But then she has a caveat. But I know that even now, God will give you whatever you ask.

Ooh. Now that's because you can't remember her sister stayed at the house. What a thing to say? What faith this is? That sounds a little bit like Abraham Reason to the Resurrection kind of a thought. This is my point about people, and it's my wife's point, about people throwing Martha under the bus, because you have this encounter, which is awesome. Now Martha, here's another good point. She says, after Jesus says to her, your brother will rise again.

Well, look what she says. I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Well, she had already, Jesus hadn't died, been raised yet. But she's already figured this part of it out. That there's going to be a resurrection at the last day. So she's been doing some listening in there somewhere. And she doesn't think it, she knows it. I'm saying she's awesome.

She said, Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection in life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die. And whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Which is a very confusing statement. And we're talking in James about the cycle of life and death. We know this verse because we study it. But somebody new to the faith, you're like,

whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Is he meaning that I'm not going to die? No, you're going to die, but you're going to not really die. Because when you're reborn while you're alive, you get the... But it is a confusing statement. Yes, Lord, she replied, I believe that you're the Messiah, the son of God, who is coming to the world. Now, after she had said this, look, look what she does. She went back and called her sister Mary aside.

The teacher is here and is asking for you. when Mary heard this she got up quickly and went to him I just thought what what a great thing to do now what I wanted to read I wanted just to read the story and what happened and we know Lazarus is raised right but if you'll notice how this story started in the beginning of the chapter in chapter 11 it says uh what does it say hang on a second uh oh I want to I want to read this in verse four after the sister sent word to jesus lord the one you're sick in verse three jesus when he heard this he said this sickness will not end death you quoted that out no it is for god's glory so that god's son may be glorified through it now look at verse five

now jesus loved martha and her sister and lazarus this is my point as it relates to james Not only are we supposed to love people in the world, and we have these qualities in James, and in the church, it is messy, it's filled with sinful people. They are the problem, including us. We're going to have problems. That's why we're getting this analogy of wisdom from heaven, these qualities we need to know. But we also have personality difference, and we do different things in different ways. And it's just piling up.

This is just not easy to do, which is why. think he gave such a detailed orientation of the qualities that you're going to need to raise a harvest of righteousness. Well, and then I'll add two little caveats to your story. One is after he talks to Mary, and then she falls at his feet, and then she says the same thing that Martha said. Lord, if you had been here, my brother, and I had to see. She repeated what Martha says.

Same thing. But then here's the thing that touched me here, and this shows you that he loved these. this family in the different ways you're describing. When Jesus saw her weeping and the Jews who had come alongside her weeping, he was deeply moved in his spirit. And then we know in verse 35, he weeps. Even though he knew his about raising from the dead, it shows you the emotional connection and bond he has

because their trouble was his trouble. And then the next thing is interesting, and we get to chapter 12, once Lazarus is raised and they're having a little party for him, the reason why it's important for Mary to be present and to hear Jesus talking was that she was the one that anointed him remember and then Judas jumps in and says oh wasting all this money we could feed the poor and he said oh she's preparing for my barrel so even in that she had a definitive knowledge just like Martha shows she had it too of what was coming and that's why I was important that they were with him and so I just it's a beautiful picture because Jesus had his own brothers who didn't believe in him. But this little family, the reason why he felt so comfortable there, and I thought about it in a sense that sometimes you have friends in your life,

you go to their house or they come to your house. And we're all new stuff. We're kind of owned when we're out talking to people. But you don't have to be owned with them. You're just like they're just very comfortable and you can be yourself. That's the way I felt like Jesus was with this family. I mean, there was just a connection there from the very beginning. And it was so beautiful because he got to,

a little, he got to show the resurrection when Lazarus died, but then also they were integral as part of his life. And I bet they were integral in the early church. I don't, you don't read much about them after this, but you know they had to be. Yeah. All I was going to say is, I think what kind of convicted me about reading that story last night is I think we tend to think, okay, I have my role in the kingdom. I go out and I share Jesus publicly. But I think I become delusional when I think I don't need these qualities in all my relationships

because I'm doing this one thing over here really well. I think we tend to get in that kind of mindset and I think sometimes we need to do if we're a Martha attitude and that's your DNA sometimes you need to do some merry stuff and just sit there and stop

in the presence of God and just worship and these kind of you see different people with different sort of we call them talents but i just think it's reflections of their heart and i see it jays when i'll go at least i'll go some place and and speak a lot time it's for a pregnancy center and uh you know we everybody's there everybody's excited they're there to raise some money to to to keep saving babies and helping young moms and dads and so you know there's all these things that go into it and i've done so many now i meet these people and i just me it's the same mindset in a different city and we'll do our thing the people leave we take pictures

with some of them we meet people they tell me stories and it always dwindles down and they start tearing everything down and lice and i are getting ready to leave but i always love to talk to those last 30 people because they're the people that made the whole thing happen that night they're volunteers and so they're usually do one big group shot with that group and that's usually when we leave but i always thought those people are just as integral in what's happening. It's just a little microcosm of the people of kingdom of God. For that one night, they all come together, but there's Marath's, there's Marys,

there's all of those people that are there. But it doesn't happen without all of them. So it's kind of what you're described. Yeah, and the heart qualities has got to get there. Because I've noticed people who are like the Martha, because I've been involved in a lot of productions at church buildings. You know, my wife and I for two years were kind of the music directors. They included me, I think.

I was supposed to say. Well, they included me. Vincy had the quality. You had the... Well, they were unsure if they wanted just to say the woman, you know, is in charge. So they're like, why don't we say both of you? But I'm like, well, if you're going to get me, I'm going to preach on it. Yeah.

Which you did class. Which I did. And she did all that. What was it, Holy Roar? Yeah, Holy Roar is a book by our friend, Chris Tolan. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it's good.

But what I was going to say is, I've noticed with the Martha's, the people who are organizing, they can be a little snippety. And a little bit controlling, different qualities that are not in this wisdom from heaven can emerge. And that's when you've got to have that merry response of, we're doing all this in the name of Jesus. And even though it may not be in your DNA default mode. in your mind to be this type of person. Whatever we're doing, we need to come at it with the attitude of this kind of heart. And I just think it's very difficult to do

because sometimes I have been embarrassed over arguments that happen within the people who are serving about how we're going to do this stuff. And I'm thinking the more this disagreement shows itself, the less it looks like Jesus. We're missing the whole boat. So, Jase, when you want to impress Missy with a meal, what is her favorite thing for you to do? She likes it when I get some wild critter and I do the whole process.

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They had sockeye salmon, coho salmon, Pacific halibut, Pacific cod, Pacific rockfish. I've tried them all. They're fantastic. Jace, you tried some as well. Oh, I did. I took the fish because what you're doing is you're becoming the process. Be the process. I love it.

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I mean, it's the selfish ambition and jealousy. I mean, when you get in an environment and people have different skills, different gifting, different things they're doing, towns, whatever you want to say. I think the issue then comes in because people get very territorial. We all struggle with this. I mean, that's why that phrase, selfish ambition, you don't hear a lot of people, a sermon's really talk about that. Like, it's in the scripture repeatedly, but think about just being overly ambitious to the point that you're, it's. you're making it about you. You're making it about yourself.

And then when you do that, then you see someone else who's maybe operating in a different gifting or talent or skill set or whatever it is that you're not currently operating in, then you get jealous because you see that person is a threat. And it's a sure way to kind of destroy any organization, particularly a church. That's why I think it's in there in the James passage of you got to get out of that. Well, that's why Zach, leadership, so important because, I mean, through my many years of being associated with a church,

I've noticed over the years if you get even one of your leaders who is being fed more from the wisdom of the other side for whatever reason, ambition, jealousy, whatever, it causes not just problems in them, but it caused problems for everybody because then you have to deal with that on a regular basis as you're trying to lead. And so it can poison literally. I mean, that was one of the illustrations James used about the tongue. It can poison a group of people and cause major harm and damage. And that's why so many people are church hurt, you know, and have stories of these things through the years.

It's because this ungodly from the devil, unspiritual, wisdom comes through even an organization that's supposed to be the bears of this fruit of righteousness. I mean, nobody's impervious to this. Satan is still out there. He's roaming to and fro, you know. That's what I got for this Job sermon I'm working on. He said, where are you been? I've been out roaming the earth to and fro. What was he doing?

What Peter said, he was looking for someone to devour. That's what he does. So you're always up against this. It's not like that goes away just because you're in community of the church. In fact, it can become a place where he does some of his best work because people aren't aware and they're not realized he has to be confronted. right. Well, and that's in contract because he just brought him up in the wisdom of the earth, the evil one. And he's going to bring him up again in chapter four when he says,

submit yourselves then to God, resist the devil. Yeah. And he will flee from you. There's always going to be that temptation. He's always wanting to end this in death and not just physical death, but the death of relationships. Because that makes God look bad. You've got to remember, Jay's, if James, the author, is who we think he is, the half-brother Jesus, who was the leader in the early church, and everything points that he's that guy. This is what he did.

This guy is an elder. He was kind of the chief spokesman for the first century church in Jerusalem, which was the very first one before Antioch and all the other churches that came along, later. And they dealt with problems. I mean, remember his, we're introduced to him because the Gentiles are now coming into the kingdom, and they're not sure how to handle that. It caused problems. That's why you're getting this letter. It's how you treat people with them every day. I want to get these last qualities before we run out of time. So we left off on these two phrases full of mercy and good fruit translated. We talked about full of mercy,

not just a drop in the cup. But then it says good fruit, which it implies, I mean, it made me think of yesterday, two of our members of our little duck club voluntary basis, they went and planted on foot because it's been so wet with all these rains that we can't get any equipment in there. And so we're running out of time because we want our crops to be ready by duck season. So they took it upon themselves to be Martha's and go out there and plant the muck, what we call it, because the water, if you, the water just comes off, you can take Japanese millet in this case and just spread it around.

But that comes with a lot of consequences. Number one, it's about 98 degrees. Number two, that muck, the one thing that lice muck in the middle of the sands muck in the middle of the summertime are cotton mouths. There's a cotton mouth every five feet. And I told them. Because I thought, these delusional guys in the spirit of wanting us to have a great duck season are going to go out and take this for the team. But they don't need anybody to get a snake bag of. Well, I just thought, you could lose your life doing this. And so you need to have a hog leg and watch every step you take. My point of bringing that up is

when you think good fruit, I mean, I know we have grocery stores and all, but I don't think that's what he was thinking about. There's a process that has to happen, and it's long, and it takes a lot of patience and a lot of work and a lot of cultivating to end up with good fruit. And I think in the context of interacting with people,

it kind of came across to me as in, are you going to deal with people for the long haul, or are you just going to try to resolve the situation? You know, because it's not going to happen quick to go back to my dad, hey, get over it. It's really going to be a little bit more to it than that. And when you just said that, it took me back to Matthew 13, the parable of sower,

when he paints this picture about planting seed, and what you're up against. Remember when he has the different, you know, four different things that happen, but only one out of the four has a positive scenario that the seed actually gets in the ground and the fruit comes up and it produces this fruit of righteousness. And the other three times, there were a lot of things working against it, you know, and all of them were because of evil. And ultimately, the reason Jesus used so many parables about gardens and fruit and seed planting

because it goes back to the original garden. and when you think good fruit. Yeah. You know, he laid out the parameters. The fruit that they were allowed to eat, which was everything but one, was an act of trusting God. Yeah.

You have this one, and you need to trust being this that you don't eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which is where then the evil wing comes in and tells a lie, oh, you're not going to die. It was a lie. Yeah.

And it happened. So I think that's a piece of this here. And the other metaphor I thought of was John 15, where he says, I am the vine, you are the branches. You bear the fruit. And the closer you are locked into the vine, the more fruit you're going to grow on the outside of it. Whether life serves you an ace or an unexpected backhand, the high-protein yogurt, Oikos Pro, is there to feed your strength and help you turn every challenge into a smash. Oikos Pro helps build strong muscles and support muscle recovery with high protein

and contains no added sugar because true strength isn't about being able to take the hits it's about being able to bounce back Oikos Pro Feed Your Strength Visit oikos.cai for more details Well also it goes back to the sermon on the mount You remember when it says you will know them by their fruits That's Matthew 716

717 you know those who bear good fruit sifers any other yeah 18 produced good fruit that's what the whole thing is about verse 20 you you'll know them by their fruits again he echoes that and then we've said it before even Galatians 5

you know the Holy Spirit in us bears fruit and so it's just that whole concept what is that love joy peace patient kind of here's another link between Paul and James on the same same labeling same page so the next one is translated impartial in the NIV?

Let's see. I pulled up John 11. What is it in the ESV, James 3? So I looked that up. Let's get our unbiased opinion on what impartial is. Consider it. Let's see, where we're at on this. Full of mercy, good fruits.

Fair and balanced was the words I used. Here's what my AI without any denials. nominational interpretation, context, grammar, and overall biblical view. It says, single-minded stability that refuses to treat people differently based on status or favoritism. Ooh, this is getting personal. Relational wisdom means you treat the poor and the rich, the influential, and the marginalized with the exact same dignity.

It is an unwavering. it is unwavering and undivided. Which is a big theme James is used throughout the book. Remember he had the whole first part of chapter two is about... Which goes to three nine about everybody is made in God's likeness. So then you have... What's next? Sincere.

Sincere. Is the last one. And the Greek word there means non-hypocrical. You know what it was? Zach, it was in the old Greek theater, you know, and they would, you had an actor, they would have the two masks. And one would,

the frowning mask was the villain and the smiling mask was the hero. And the same actor would just change out the mad. That's where the Greek, this word comes from, is sincerity, that you were one or the other.

You know, and so the mask is what showed. You got it. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. Or it's translated without hypocrisy. So let's see. So in other words, if an Greek actor was portraying, he was wearing the mask of the villain,

but he was trying to act like the good guy, that would be hypocritical. I mean, the mask is what showed you. Yeah, he had a mask on. It wasn't, you're not playing the, you're not playing the role you're in. Yes, exactly right. Yeah, the exact words used six times. First Peter 1.22, Your Souls for a sincere love. 2 Timothy 1 5

A sincere faith I'm mindful of a sincere faith 1st Timothy 1 5 same thing sincere faith Ooh I like this 2nd Corinthians 66 in the Holy Spirit In genuine love Or by love

unfeigned Yeah love genuine Romans 12 9 is the other one Without hypocrisy What is what is 12 9. Let me read that. That one doesn't ring a bell. Romans 129.

It's Roman 129 where he's time at the unity of the church. Oh, well, that's good because we said, yeah, the problem with the church are the people. Yeah. Getting along with them. Oh, love must be sincere. Hate what is evil cling to what is good. Then he goes into the devotion. Be devoted to one another, brother.

Honor one. Well, there's another Paul and James lining up. Right. So then, and actually in 18, it doesn't really say peacemakers in the Greek. It just says, I think the ESV got this right. It just says, and a harvest of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace. Yeah. I think they got that translation right.

So just think he's summing up all those qualities. You want the harvest of righteousness, which is what? right in your relationship with God and people. That's what it means. Is sewn in peace by those who make peace. That's where the idea of peacemaker. Isn't that something? You want peace?

You got to make peace. Yeah, it's a reminder of the desert fathers. They would ask for the, like, the move of the Holy Spirit, and they would try to discern when he was leading them, where he was leading them. and the way they would determine the direction was essentially which which way leads us to peace. And that's a really, I mean, if you just lived your life that way, just said, okay, peace is that way. I'm going to just do the things that lead to peace.

Then you would attain peace. I mean, you actually would attain it. But most of our or all of our unrest, which is the opposite of peace, it comes from trying to live outside of who we actually are. So James is painting this beautiful picture of you can actually achieve and live in a peaceful state. And to your point from earlier, the book of Hebrews is littered with people who had horrible circumstances but still had peace. So it's not the comfort that always, the comfort is not comfort that always leads to peace. It's being in right relationship with your Heavenly Father is what leads you to peace. And I love the contrast of the two because remember the fruit,

that comes out of this selfish ambition and the envy and all the selfishness that goes with that, where chaos and more sin, every evil practice more of the same. Where here you're seeing the production is order. It's something good, it's stability, but it also is legacy and maturity and blessing and things that you can be proud of.

And you start seeing it generationally. So I mean, it just, I don't know when you look at it at its face, it seems like such a simple choice. Why would you want this one over this one when this one leads to so many bad things? Yeah, I want to say this before we close, because you say, well, why did Jesus say in Matthew 1034, do not think that I've come to bring peace on the earth. I've not come to bring peace but a sword. I've come to set a man against his father, a daughter against his mother.

Y'all, y'all read this. A person's enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever loves the father, mother more than me is not worthy of me. Whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. So it seems to be in contradiction to what James is saying, or is it? And I think his point was in verse 39 of Matthew 10, whoever finds his life will lose it.

And whoever loses his life, for my sake, will find it. And I think that point, the ESV, the way it's worded, by making peace, ultimately, you're never going to have any peace without Jesus. He's the ultimate one who made peace by giving his life. And in all this context, all these things are acts of you giving your life, you dying to whatever selfish motivation you had. And so, look, everybody wants world peace. You're not going to get it unless you're willing to make peace.

And you're sure not going to find it without Jesus being the center. and you being dead to your own selfish desires and ambitions. It's like the old song, war. What is it good for? Absolutely nothing. All right, we'll see you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast.

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