Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1400 | The Robertsons Take a Sledgehammer to the Logic of ‘Open Marriage’

Episode Date: August 17, 2026

The abortion debate takes an unexpected turn as Jase, Al, and Zach challenge the language surrounding pregnancy, choice, and what culture has stopped treating as a blessing. Jase connects that to Mia���s diagnosis before birth and the perspective shift that changed how he and Missy faced what was ahead without minimizing the difficulty. The guys draw a provocative line between idolatry, sexual immorality, “open marriage,” and what happens when reverence for human life starts to erode.  In this episode: Jeremiah 19, verses 3–4; Jeremiah 22, verses 3–5; James 1, verses 26–27; James 2, verse 8; James 3, verse 9; James 4, verse 2; James 5, verses 5, 9, 13–20; 1 Kings 11, verse 2; 1 Corinthians 10, verses 6–10, 14–22; Matthew 5, verses 21–22; Romans 1, verse 21; Genesis 1, verse 28 “Unashamed” Episode 1400 is sponsored by: https://duckstamp.com/unashamed — Get your digital duck stamp online and keep it right on your phone! Get firearm security redesigned and save 10% off @‌StopBoxUSA with code UNASHAMED at https://www.stopboxusa.com/unashamed #stopboxpod http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/ — Sign up now for free, and join the Unashamed hosts every Friday for Unashamed Academy Powered by Hillsdale College Listen to Not Yet Now with Zach Dasher on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or anywhere you get podcasts. Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/at-home-with-phil-robertson/id1835224621 Chapters 00:00 Jase’s Group-Text Sermon Gets Out of Hand 05:42 The Ancient Battle Still Showing Up Today 09:18 Jeremiah’s Warning & the Verdict That Followed 15:46 James Connects Faith to the Way We Treat People 19:40 The Road From Idolatry to Destruction 26:09 Jesus Takes Murder Straight to the Heart 32:00 The Five-Step Slide From Desire to Disaster 37:25 Thanks the Antidote to a Darkened Heart 42:12 When a Consequence Becomes a Blessing 46:10 Phil’s Wildest Marriage Advice Returns — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? The warning was complex. What was your warning? You warned, you warned Zach? No, Zach and I were in a group text, which for years I've said group text should be outlawed. Yeah, now you're starting them. No, I didn't start it, Al. I was invited into it. But since it had a spiritual connotation, you know, a group of men that Zach and I are invited. involved with. They call it the forge group, which I had to look up forge. You had to look up forge?

I don't use forge. Forge ahead, gentlemen. I don't. I think it's like an eye, like a fire, right? Yeah, yeah. You're forged by fire. We had Kyle Thompson on. He said he had a, what do he call it, the forging table?

That's the name of their group. That's a good example, because Kyle uses that lingo, too. he's got a little Zach in him. Half of what he said. He's got a lot of second. How? I needed the cricket button. I was just like, because he.

So, yeah, we're on a group text together, which is, it is, yeah, it feels weird. I mean, not to be on a group text, to be on a group chat with Jase's. And he responds. He responded today with a pretty lengthy script. I don't know what it was kind of. It was a sermon. It was a sermon. Group text.

sermon. So, no, because there was some, one of the brothers in the group were they're going through difficulty,

in this case, like a physical surgery. And everybody's, you know, trying to encourage this guy. He dropped a scripture from Jeremiah 22, basically

connecting it with Galatian 6, 7, on you reap what you sow. But it was kind of done in a bit of a cheeky way, you know, but you should focus on your obedience to the Lord. I mean, it was a great point.

I took that and then developed it out into a sermon. Because I said, well, three chapters before, which I got it from this podcast, you know, there was a situation, and I went through the Gahena bit that we went through on the podcast. There was another situation where you reap what you sow. You throw in kids in a valley to somehow benefit yourselves and please the gods, plural.

And Jeremiah gave a withering prophecy of what was going to happen to the religious leaders, and then history proved that to be the case. And so that I went to the book of James, chapter by chapter. chapter and basically had a statement, how you treat people should be a reflection of your belief and faith in God. So you want to talk about obedience? Make sure you're treating people, especially widows, orphans, and people that are not like you in a way that's going to make God glorified. That was the gist of it. Well, as funny as the guy who initially put that said, thanks for stating this exactly how I wanted to, but I didn't want to take away your thunder.

That was the cheeky part. That was the cheeky part. So real quick reminder before we get into the, too deep into this, by the way, we are launching. We have launched the episodes of Phil that no one's ever seen before on the Echo Platform. You can get this podcast ad-free along with a lot of others. Got some movies on there as well. super simple. You guys can sign up.

It's at ECHL, EKK.com. Use the R code Unashamed. Try to put it in all caps if you can. You get 20% off of one year subscription, which I think comes out to less than $6 a month. So it's very affordable, a ton of podcasts. If you don't like the ads, well, this is a place you can go to watch this podcast without any ads at

echo.com. Use the code unashamed. EKKL. com code unashamed. Well, it's interesting that I had a conversation yesterday about this. With a guy who has had a daughter born with Down syndrome, and there's this whole thing that he's involved in on protecting the life of those children who are diagnosed with Down syndrome. And I was like, well, what's the, I didn't know this was the thing.

I mean, according to him, they're like 90% of these children are aborted, which is crazy. think about it. I said, whoa. I didn't know that. That shocked me. Well, in foreign countries, they're just like, oh, get rid of them. Oh, it's wild. And so you think about, like, the, you know, what you were talking about was, I guess,

was it bail? Was that the worship of bail? Yeah. When they were worshipping bail. And they, but they were doing this to this survival instinct. Basically, we need less humans. Yeah. And we'll sacrifice these.

the most helpless humans, which are babies, to appease the gods. Yeah, it's just wild when you think about that, you know, the conversation we kind of got into, we actually were talking about a whole, he wanted to do this whole unscripted series around the book of Enoch and around some other, like, some of that content. We've even been talking about Michael Heiser content. And we were talking about how there really seems to be. real demonic and evil celestial entities that are partnering with with the world and have been throughout history.

It is funny. It's not funny. It's not funny. It's scary. When you look at Baal and Molek and the human sacrifice of children, and then you see it, you still see it today. It has a different name, but it's the same spirit. And I think that it's not a, so there is a warning, what you've said in your text,

was he said, this is a warning and this is a verdict. There's a warning here and there's a verdict here. And I think that that it's interesting to me that these battles that we read about like even in Gahena the valley of a, what was it, been

hidden. We're still in these same wars. Now we have Christ and the Holy Spirit. Obviously, it's a game changer. But these, this battle, it goes on. It just has different names and it manifests itself in different ways. Well, I made the same point, Zach, in my sermon Sunday.

That was the underpinnings of the Bildadzofar, you know, the friend, alifaz, the friends of Job. There's this underpinning of this God appeasement theology, which has been around obviously, like we're saying, a long, long time, but it's still there. The idea is that if there's some flaw, if there's something we deem not up to our standard, then that's easily disposed of. And so we're not bringing in God's will into this at all, made in his image. So that was the underpinning of what they were saying to Job, because they were saying it directly. Well, your kids, you know, the reason they died is because, you know, they were sinners.

And they said, who has perished, you know, that was not a sinner? As if they were not sinners. I mean, it was so amazing. The minds is so arrogant and humanistic. And then, of course, I went immediately to John Nime. Because at the end of it, I read on the last podcast, the Joe 42, where he says, I've heard of you, but now I see you. And I just thought about that moment where the guy sitting there in John 9 and the disciples look at him. They're like, well, who messed up that this guy got the short end of the stick by being born blind?

And Jesus is like, nobody. The reason the man's born blind is because God's going to get glory out of his life. And then he heals him. And then the guy runs around telling everybody how great God is. So it's just, I think the underpinnings of that mindset, that, that, and it is, it does go with where we're at in James, too, James four, about the two kinds of wisdom. It's earthly. It's of the evil one. And it's, and it, and then it becomes part of us. And then we allow that to happen. And so that, that's what people are doing. Somebody had brought up the point about the, we were talking about the different, in Christianity, there were some, some culture, I can't remember which one they were telling me this, where if you had an, a baby and you didn't want it for whatever reason, wrong sex, whatever.

They'd just go leave it in this place on a ledge someplace and to die. And that was the idea. Like it was just like your child was like a stray animal or something. You had no regard. But Christians would go and take these children and adopt them into their home. It was one of the things that made them different. And so you made the point just a minute ago about how Jesus coming here changed the game. And it did.

because now you've got the Holy Spirit living in people. And so they look at a situation or like us. I mean, we're fighting tooth and nail because, you know, we don't want people to abort their children, no matter what's going on with them. And some of some Down syndrome children and adults that I've met are some of the best people I've met on the planet. I mean,

there was one that spoke at the national rights life speech with Lisa that was just, I mean, she brought me to tears. She's like, I'm here. I'm living life and I'm loving it because, you know, my mom chose life. And I was, I mean, I was in tears. I thought, well, this woman could have easily been discarded, but now she's impacting for the kingdom. And it's just, and it's encouraging, it's thrilling.

And it makes me want to fight to the death. Well, the, if you think about how much time we spent on this podcast talking about that real salvation is, is being invited into participate in the life of God through Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. But we don't talk a lot about this enough. But if the, if that's true, that. that to be in Christ is to be a participant with Christ in the life of God, then the opposite of that is not just that you're not participating with Christ. It's also that you are participating with evil. You're participating with fallen angels.

You're participating with Satan. You're part of it. And that's not all. I mean, as we've said in many podcasts, you can't say the devil may be do it. But you are participating with real organized entities. and agendas that are contrary to the will of God, which was Genesis 128 to be free to multiply, cultivate the earth, have dominion over it.

So, Jason, one of the things that I think our dad instilled in us was the concept of conservation. It meant a lot to dad to not only get land for us to be able to hunt on and enjoy ourselves because we love that, but also to take good care of it and to build great wetlands and to take care of nature. right? Yeah, and we're at this time of year because tomorrow I am going out to the land and we're starting the process to get ready for the ducks. The federal duck stamp has always meant something

to our family because, of course, it connects hunting to taking care of God's creation. Because it's more, it's more than just us harvesting. It's also building something. So if you're a waterfowl hunter, you're required to have a duck stamp, but the stamp does a whole lot more than just give you permission to hunt. Every purchase helps conserve wetlands that provide habitat for ducks and countless other species while protecting outdoor spaces for future generations to enjoy. And we love that. You can get yours easily at duckstamp.com and carry the digital version right on your phone throughout the hunting season. Don't worry, your collectible physical stamp will also still arrive in the mail in the spring. It's a simple purchase that supports something much bigger than

just one hunting season. Visit duckstamp.com and get yours today. That's duck stamp.com. I was looking to try to read it without getting deep into it, but the verdict in this situation, which later Jesus would use this Gahena as the valley of Ben-Hamon or Hennam. In verse 3 of chapter 19, it says, hear the word of the Lord, O kings of Judah, people of Jerusalem. This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel says. listen

exclamation point listen I am going to bring a disaster on this place that will make the ears of everyone who hears of it tingle I really don't know what that means but it means something

really profound has happened for they have forsaken me and made this a place of foreign gods so what did they do what did they do they have burned sacrifices in it to gods that neither they nor their fathers nor the kings of Judah ever knew. They were made up.

And they have filled this place with the blood of the innocent. They have built on the high places of bail to burn their sons and daughters in the fire as offerings to bail, something I did not command, mention, nor did it enter my mind. That's God speaking. So then in chapter 22, which is the verse that I got this morning, Zach and I in the group text, verse three, this is what the Lord says. Do what is just and right.

Rescue from the hand of his oppressor, the one who has been robbed. Do no wrong or violence to the foreigner, the fatherless, which would be an orphan, or the widow and do not shed innocent blood in this place.

And then verse 5 says, if you obey these commands, declares the Lord, I swear by myself, if you do not obey these commands, I swear by myself that this place will become a ruin. So I made the point

when you get to the book of James, I know we've said this a hundred times, and then you can finish your thought. If you just, I just, off the top of my head, picked out one verse in each chapter that talks about how you treat people is a reflection of your faith in God. So when you read James 126, or 27, religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this, to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

where do you get that idea i mean i'm not in that crazy how the bible seems to do that i'm looking on our uh group text for the next references i gave i put two eight if you really keep the royal law found in scripture love your neighbor as yourself you're doing right well there who's my neighbor anybody. Then chapter three, which I think is a theme of James, with the tongue we praise our Lord and Father and with it we curse men who have been mating God's likeness. Then in chapter four, verse two, you want something but don't get it. You kill and covet, but you cannot have what you want. You quarrel and fight. You do not have because you do not ask God. So that's what's happening, you know, with people.

Verse five, chapter five, I put a few references, because in verse five, it says, those who have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence, you have fatten yourselves in the day of slaughter. Well, that same valley where God's justice, just, where God's justice was demonstrated, was called the valley of slaughter. And then verse 13, is any one. and it comes to us, is anyone of you in trouble, he should pray? Is anyone happy to let him sing songs of praise? Because it becomes about relational, about calling the elders and praying for those

who are sick, confessing your sins to each other instead of this contrast in James 4. But it's all how you treat people in your relationships. And then the last two verses of chapter 5, if one of you should wonder from the truth and someone brings him back, remember this, whoever turns a sinner from the air of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins. I'm telling you, the theme is about how you are treating people. Yeah, if you think about the context of, what was that, Jeremiah 22? Is that where we, that was the 19 and then 22. So this is what's crazy about that, is that the context is they're worshiping bail, they're offering up child sacrifices, and they sound like Canaanites. I mean, they sound like

You know, this doesn't sound like God's people. This sounds like the, you know, all of the other people, the pagans. But this is written, this warning is to Judah. And, I mean, you think, man, how in the world that they even get to this point? And you have to go back to even Solomon in First King's 11. You know, he built these high places where apparently children were sacrificed because you got the God of Molek in there that's mentioned in 1st Kings 11. Like Solomon, David's son is the one who instituted idolatry in Israel.

And so when the verdict came to Solomon, the verdict was, I'm going to rip the kingdom away from you. I'm not going to do it in your lifetime, but I'm going to take it away from you. And the only reason why I'm not going to do it in your lifetime, the Lord says, is because I love your father, David. Basically, I'm going to honor your dad. but the kingdom will be divided. And so then after Solomon's reign ended and his son took office, then the kingdom did divide. And then you have Israel and Judah. Well, Judah is supposed to be like the one where like this is the line of Christ, right?

This is the Christ comes through Judah. So this is like now Israel is complete apostates. I mean, they're done. And now it's just the two tribes that make up Judah. So you're just fast forwarding this plan. and you're just seeing the habitual partnership that God's people. I mean, that's the one, that God's people are the ones that are now participating with the demonic, that are now participating with the idols that are, and that always results.

I think this is the other thing, too, Jace. It's not just about the way you treat people. It's also saying, like, this is where that always leads. If you go down an idolatrous road, the end of that road is all. Always, always the destruction of life. It's always the murdering of the innocent. It's always the destruction of family. It's always a counter.

It's an anti-Eden vision. It's everything that God commanded for your own good and for human flourishing. It's the opposite of that. It says, not just like go love people. If you chase the idols, you will hate people. You will hate life. In the end, that is the end result of the whole thing. And that's why you see the pattern of that it goes throughout all of time. And when you get to the book of James, that's why what he's doing here. It's not, these are not just commandments of how we can be better. These are descriptions of what it looks like to live in a kingdom life under the lordship of the king versus living a life of idolatry. This is what this looks like. This is the world that we're invited into is not the world of the demonic, but the world of life.

So, Zach, I got a perfect illustration was a section of 1st Corinthians 10, where Paul is dealing with the same thing in Corinth with the church there. And it's about these, you know, idolatrous sacrifice meals versus the Lord's supper. Because he puts it just like you said, listen to the wording. Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry. I speak to sensible people. Judge for yourselves, what I say. It's not the cup of Thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation. in the blood of Christ. It's not the bread that we break, a participation in the body of Christ.

I'm at the Lord's Supper that is a reminder of participation. We're in this because there is one loaf. We are many or one body. We partake it one loaf. Then he says, consider the people of Israel. And this is right where you were talking about, do not do not those who eat the sacrifices participate in the altar? Do I mean that a sacrifice offered to an idol is anything or that an idol is anything? No, because he said, we don't recognize it. the sacrifice of pagans are offered to demons, not to God. And I do not want to participate with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too.

You cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table at demons. It's this idea of this clear line that you can't participate. And this goes directly to James 4 when we're talking about adulters. He said, are we trying to arouse the Lord's jealousy? Are we stronger than he? Like somehow, again, it's just elevation of this. humanistic idea that somehow we're at the top. And he's saying, no, we can't do that. I mean, God's going to judge this, both in time and at the end of time. Well, maybe we should read James

four, but before we do, I know we've made this point before, but I want to use a different verse to illustrate it in James. So that's why when Jesus talked about the sermon on the Mount, and people are like, what? Because he makes this so practical at the heart of the matter when in 21 in chapter 5 of Matthew he says well you've heard that it was said to the people long ago don't murder and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment which is what we're talking about about jeremiah 19 and 22 and zach it wasn't just that they were from israel or judah these were the religious leaders doing this oh yeah yeah good point So, Jace, our dad had a famous saying, I think it was on the show, but he probably said it before it when he said something about calling 911 and he said, hey, where I live, I am 911.

If dad heard a noise in the night, he was going to deal with it himself. So this is the kind of situation that Stopbox is made for. The Stopbox Pro is 100% mechanical, which means no keys to keep up with, no batteries to replace and no codes to remember. it's a simple five-button setup you can learn by muscle memory jace you've got one there in front of you yeah and it doesn't take long to figure it out it is a combination that is unlocked by muscle memory it goes something like this voila it stays secure but it's still quick to access when you need it also made right here in the good old us of a with solid craftsmanship and support for american jobs and stopbox has other great products too like the new stopbox you can't it uses the same mechanical lock as the pro, but it gives you more space for your firearm, ammo, and gear.

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of Gahena, the valley of bin Hanam, the fire of hell. He goes back to that. Well, James kind of does a similar thing. In chapter five, we'll get to it, but I just wanted to read it for this context. In verse nine, I mean, listen to where this goes. He says, don't grumble against each other. Because we as humans don't feel like grumbling against each other.

against each other is a very bad thing. I'm pretty sure that I've grumbled in the last 48 hours because I slept most of those. That's why I didn't say 24. But watch where he jumps to. You're like, okay, James is saying don't grumble against each other. Well, why?

Or you will be judged. The judge is standing at the door. All of a sudden, you're like, what? I'm just doing a little grumbling. Because the heart of that, just like being angry with your brother, just like not looking at God, not looking at other people through the eyes of God,

that were all made in the image of God, that's where all this leads. It's a desire that snowballs. And you end up with religious leaders dumping babies in a canyon. I mean. But you think why? Why?

Well, here's why. Going back to the, man, that First Corinthians 10 passage that you brought up was spot on. Man, that was someone, I'm adding that to my arsenal on this. But so listen to this. Because, you know, in James 4, he's getting into the sexual morality. He's getting into coveting, fighting, quarreling, all these things. And so the temptation is to read this and be like, and this is why it's so hard when we talk about sexuality because most of the time in the church we say you don't you shouldn't

have sex until you're married and you only have sex with your wife because that's god's that's that's god's command which is true but that's not you're it's almost like we're turning that into a list of rules that we have to follow that's not what this is the this is a this is description of the way the world is and so when you look at first christians 10 and it talks about immorality. It says, now these things took place as examples for us that we might not desire evil as they did. Same kind of language that James uses about desire. You have these desires in your heart. You want the stuff that you don't have. You covet it because you don't have it. Those are evil desires. Each one is dragged away and enticed by his own evil desires, right?

And so these things took place as examples for us so that we might not desire evil as they did. Then this is talking about the Israelites during the Exodus, that even though God's performing all these incredible miracles, they're like, we don't believe you. Yeah, you part of the Red Sea. Yeah, you drop manna from the sky, but we're going to hoard it up because we don't think you're going to take care of us. Those are evil desires, and they were giving as an example for us that we shouldn't live that way. Do not be idolaters, as some of them were. as it is written, these people sat down to eat and drink. And my text says, and they rose up to play.

What does y'all's text say in verse 7? They got up to indulge in pagan revelry. Pagan revelry. They got up to play. We must not indulge in sexual immorality. As some of them did, 23,000 fell in a single day. You say, well, what's the point here? I think this is what happens with this type of sensuality.

It always follows idolatry. And I think this is why. I do think this Genesis 128, I'm going to bring it up every episode, because it thwarts what God intended for humanity. It thwarts the fruitful multiplication of image-bearing worshippers of Yahweh. And so when you have the unbridled sexuality, yeah, sometimes guess what happens. A lot of times guess what happens? Kids come out.

But kids become a nuisance now because now the purpose of sex is not primarily procreation and the mingling of souls. The purpose of sex now is just to consume pleasure in any way possible. And that is a death work. It does not work. And so as kids come, then, man, they're nuisance. We got to get rid of the kids. We got to get rid of the kids. We got to get rid of the whole point of what sex is.

I mean, if you boil it down biologically, what? is the point of sex? It's reproduction. That's why we have sex. Biologically, the point of sex is the reproduction of life. And so then all of a sudden we have to separate the point of sex, like it's tell us. We've got to separate it from its end and its purpose. And that is what evil does. That is what idolatry does, is it turns it into something that is an inward consumption rather than an outward expansion of life. That's the battle. And that's why it keeps popping up, and over and over again. I want to highlight what you just said, which is so true, because from Paul's version of in the First Corinthians, when you go back to as it actually happened, which we've talked

a lot about on the podcast, it seems, it appears like when it happened that just sudden turned to pagan idolatry and all of a sudden you're all this unbridled sex in the group and sacrificing to bail and all these things that happened, it seemed like it turned on a dime with the people of Israel that had been rescued by God, but it really didn't because to Jesus's point, earlier from James, what started their downfall? Grumbling. You remember they come out and they start with the grumbling? I mean, just like, I can't get past it. We're, you know, we're out here. We're not, we got nothing to eat. And back in Egypt, at least we had something. So the grumbling starts. It's this unsatisfied, God's not enough, God's not good enough. And it seemed like it turned on a

dime when all of a sudden at the foot of the mountain and turned into a big sex party. But it wasn't. It was a heart that had been hardened all the way down the trip. Well, that's where I was going is, did you know that right short of where Zach was reading in 1st Corinthians 10 that you introduced now? When he gets to the fifth leg of this cycle in verse 10, he says, and do not grumble. Yeah. And I think if you back this up, I probably did this when we went through 1st Corinthians. but this cycle is here.

There's five stepping stones to how this happened. He starts off in verse six saying, don't set your hearts on evil things. I'm in 1st, Corinthians 10 in verse 6. So that's the first place. Where does all this start? Well, it starts in your desires in your heart. So when you set your heart on something that's evil,

the next step is you become an idolatier. So if you really think about why that's the second step, because you have to have an excuse or rationalize what you know to be wrong in your conscience, because God wrote it there, to do what you want to do. It's kind of like the sex thing, which is where he goes on the third. Real quick, on that first one, real quick, I just want to add this in. Going back to Solomon, listen to what it says, this is the warning. You shall not marry with the first.

foreign women, neither shall they with you. And here's why, for they shall turn your heart after their gods. Exactly. So you have an evil desire, so it starts there in your heart. Then you rationalize it by worshiping and serving something other than God.

So you replace, because now that's the way to get away from God's judgment and a guilty conscience. You're like, well, we serve lots of gods. And this God says this is great. And so then you do it. So then the sin actually shows itself in verse 8, which is in this case sexual immorality. This is how it worry. You had a desire. You become an idolature. You do it. And that leads to the fourth thing because it says we should not test the Lord. Because once you do it, you know your conscience. God wrote on your conscience that that's wrong.

So what does that mean with testing the Lord? Well, you do it right in front of him and like, what are you going to do about it? You told me, deep down in my heart, it's written, that I should not be a moral when it comes to sex. So you test the Lord. Now he says, well, that same,

they tested the Lord, and guess what? They lost. He passed because there was 23,000 of them killed. And you see other verses. You know, Romans 1, remember when it says about they exchange the natural relations with women, which we talked about that. It's like their kind as a woman goes with the other kind of a human, a man. When you mess with God's design, and then later it says, and they receive in themselves the penalty for their perversion. Because all that leads to negative things for life and the good of all people.

I mean, you remember our dad famously said, you know, if everybody had one man, if it was one man and one woman for life, and the sex was kept right there in marriage, just think of what that would do to society in one generation. It changed the world. When it changed the world. Think about how much less crime would happen. There'd be no sexually transmitted diseases. All that, you'd cure all that. safety is not a feature. It's our purpose. Rigorous crash testing. Decades of learning from real accidents. Innovations that help prevent accidents before they happen and help protect you when they occur. Going above and beyond industry standards. A vision of zero collisions. Volvo's legacy revolves around you because safety is about helping to keep you and everyone around you safe for life. Learn more at balvocars.ca slash safety.

there is a there is a i would add one more to what you said and i would put it as the first one based on roman's one you mentioned roman's one but i just went back and pulled it up and i was reading it and think about because you started with the desire and the heart so it's like how do you like i was i was thinking how would i what can we do what can what can the person listening right now to this podcast what can you do to not go down that cascade of sin to death that jace just mention, like, what can you do? Because you got to figure out, what we got to figure out is how can I not let my heart get turned? How can I not let these evil desires come in? Because each one is dragged away and enticed by his own evil desires. But listen to the cascade in

Romans. Romans one says, for although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him. So what's the opposite of grumbling, being thankful? Like the opposite of, if you grumble, you're entitled. If you're thankful, you're not, so the opposite of grumbling is to be thankful. And what they did is they didn't honor God and they did not give thanks to God. And then here's the cascade here,

but they became futile in their thinking. So the way Paul says it is, when you don't give thanks and honor God, then your thinking gets messed up. And then your foolish hearts get darkened. So the heart posture happens when you get entitled and when you start, you're not living in a spirit of thankfulness. And I think that happens when you don't understand how holy God is and how unholy you are. When I, like what when I, when I posture myself in a position before the Lord that says, you know what, like I really haven't done a lot of great things.

really merit me favor with him. And I'm not saying, I don't think we should go in there, well, it's me. I'm horrible. I'm scum. I'm not, I'm not saying, like, that's not what I'm saying. Well, what I am saying is, like, we go before a holy God and we say, and we should have, we should be so grateful for what he has done in our lives. The problem with Israel in the, in the, exodus, is they weren't grateful. In the face of what God was delivering them out of, He was accomplishing the impossible, rescuing them from depravity and slavery and from their tormentor, you know, Pharaoh, and again and again and again, and they just kept grumbling, kept going back to the idolatry, kept going back.

That's the level. I think that if you think, what can I do? I think as you get on your face before Holy God, you confess your sin, and then you receive His grace and mercy, and then you express your thankfulness and give him honor. If you do that, your heart's not going to get turned. It won't. Well, you know what's ironic is that while this is written, you know, we're reading this in the New Testament Bible to believers.

And even if you read the Old Testament to believers of that day, which was, you know, the people of God, the same cycle, Jays, applies to people in the world. They may not recognize it, but it's still there. I mean, like, you'll have a couple and there's a thing. they call it open marriage. So it's like, we're going to get married to one another. But then we're going to be open to do whatever we want to with anybody else at the same time. And even if two people are in agreement to live their life that way, it never works out.

And the reason why is it just it cascades into the chaos. And when you go down that road and these people can't find what they're looking for there because it will not pay off. It's not all it leads to is that ultimate same destruction we're talking about here. So, I mean, because we're all made in the image of God. It's an oxymor. It's an oxymoron. An open marriage is an oxymoron. It's like saying a round square.

Or, hey, I met this guy the other day. He was a married bachelor. No? If he's a bachelor, he's not married. If it's round, it's not a square. And this is the problem with the limitations of language. This is why the Bible says that the letter kills, but the spirit gives life. Because I can take letters and rearrange them.

And I can create a sentence that sounds like I'm saying something. coherent that's completely incoherent. It's a misuse of language. But we do this and you say, how do we, how do we get there? Well, futile thinking. Futile thinking is how you come up with, with the manipulation of language to act like you're actually saying something, but it's complete incoherency. And nobody can live this way, ultimately, because we have to live with context and meaning in the world. And so the whole thing is like, you know, saw it off the branch you're sitting on kind of stuff, you know, I mean, it's, it doesn't. But But again, I think that this, how does that happen?

What starts with not giving God honor and glory and thanking him for what he is done and who he is. And then that leads to entitlement and grumbling and complaining. And that leads to my heart being now darkened and my thinking becoming futile. And then that leads to me indulging in the idolatrist that sin when it gives. birth, it gives birth to death when it's full grown. Yeah. But it's a, but it has to be united with selfish ambition because you take another example from the world like abortion. Well, sex happened and because that sex feels good in the moment. And so that was good for oneself, which is probably why they were doing it.

And then all of a sudden a consequence, which is not a consequence, it's an opportunity, joy is life is formed, but then we know what that means. Being a mom is filled with sacrifice. You're going to sacrifice the rest of your life to be a mom. It's the highest form of just something sacrificial that's going to happen to really be an active, loving mom. You're totally focused on this new human being that's been created in the image of God. We don't want to do that.

And so that's where you're doing. desire then goes to, if it's about me and this is my body, I do with it what I want to, I'll just kill this baby so I don't have to deal with being sacrificial and unselfish. I mean, that's just what it is. Yeah. What do they call, think about this, even this, the distortion of thinking, if that is the mentality that you have, then getting pregnant as a result of having sex, becomes a consequence.

That's right. But in the scripture, he blessed them and said, be fruitful and multiplied. So in God's economy, having sex leads to babies is the blessing. In Satan's economy,

having sex leads to babies is a consequence and a problem. If the end result of the natural thing that God has given us, if the end result of that is a problem, then I would tell you, that something in that economy is off.

You need a different economy because this is what happens when you have sex. So sexuality leads to new life. So in our economy, the one that I'm a part of, man, that's a blessing. Oh, exactly. That's a great blessing. But they view it as a consequence. It's like the Reagan line, which was so good. He said, well, you know, in America, you have a right to believe what you want.

And you say you're pro-choice, your pro-abortion. He said, but you had to be born. Do you have the belief? Well, here's what's cool about the here. Now, here's where this changes with Jesus, though. This is why I love the Jesus part of this and the Holy Spirit and the cross of Calvary that sits at the very center of our reality in our new economy, is that somebody else's consequence

can be redeemed and become my blessing. Yeah. Think about that. So now, Ruth was a consequence. I've been saying, you're living at that. But I got the blessing. So I'm like, okay, we'll do the adoption. I was adopted in my own department.

gravity and sin. So I'm thinking of these things that like the parallels here that somebody else's consequence and Christ can become a true incredible blessing that you can't even calculate how great the blessing is. Well, that was another thing that happened that produced that same result, which was Jesus dying on a cross. Come on. You know, the consequences of sin is death it became our blessing. Yeah, exactly, which is grace. I mean, I think when you look at everything in life through this, it tends to make sense. When you think what are some of the consequences for sex? Well, if you don't keep it within the way God designed it, you have sexually transmitted

diseases. I've never been in danger of that, ever. Because you're like, well, why? Because I married a woman who had never had sex before. And so now we've been together only to each other. No STDs. You know how, well, not even that. Do you know how much time I've spent worrying about getting an STD?

None. None. What's funny about this is that one of the funniest things, we all got our Phil stories. We told them, we tell them all the time on here, but I'll remind you of the one that was so funny that me and I've got to be a part of, that Phil, when he was speaking at CPAC.

Yeah. And CPAC, to be honest, there's a lot of immorality going on. at C-Bank. And Phil opened that. I just remember his opening line was 110 Americans. 110 million. And everybody's like, 110 million.

What? He's like, 110 million of you have an STD. One out of three. He says, look to your right. Look to your left. One of you got it. It's so awkward. But it was controversial, but I'm like, but it is true, you know, according to the CDs,

see, he gave the stats. And all these little, all these little bow-tied young, 20-something-year-old Republicans are looking at each other. They're looking at the left and the right there. It was the ultimate buzzkill, Jace. Like the party, like in that moment, it was like, what we did last night, and they're looking. They're like, he makes a good point. Well, I'll give you another one of his famous lines that a random stranger who I was, who I met in a VIP line, reminded me that our dad said, Al, he said, having sex with your, woman as in godly marriage is the banana pudding of life.

I had forgot he said that, but when he said that, he used to say that. Now, for y'all who don't really get that, my mom made the greatest banana pudding on this planet. And all other banana puddings became... gag reflexes compared to my mom's banana pudding. She didn't get something out of a box and pour it. I mean, double broiler all day ordeal, and you eat the banana pudding, but I thought...

It's warm. It's hot, yeah. It is just, it is just absolutely. It may or may not have five sticks of butter in it, but it is. It's a big thing you've never put in your mouth. But I thought... No, but I was thinking, that was thinking about that idea about the consequence and the blessing.

And you mentioned Ruth. But Jason, you know, I just, I think back to that moment and Lisa was there too. It was such a blessing that she got to be there because she went because Peggy couldn't go. But, you know, when you guys looked at a four-dimensional image when Missy was pregnant with Mia, I mean, that's what revealed that she was going to be, you know, have this cleft power and all the facial, you know, issues that she had. but there was never a thought, and I'm assuming, but I know there wasn't. There was never a thought like, well, you know what, I guess we struck out here.

We're just going to have to abort this one and maybe give another one a shot. I mean, that doesn't cross your mind. You do have to realize that we've got a lifelong struggle ahead, but look at the blessing that she is. I mean, when you think about that, and because back to this conversation of Rudy's started, was that talking about down soon. It was the same exact thing. This is a gift from God. And whatever struggle goes with that gift only enhances the blessing of what happens as a result of it.

I mean, that's the whole. Well, what we said, we did go through the little why us about three months of that. And because we're thinking, I mean, we're doing everything right. You know how the human mind. It was a job. It was a job moment. Yeah. Yeah.

It works. And you're like, why, why is this happening? And we went through all the things that, that, that, was going to happen, but one of them, which just talking about how you change your perspective, after we coined the phrase of my wife did, she said, I think we need to be asking why not instead of why us. Come on. And then I thought, you know, we're going to be in debt the rest of our lives.

And we both busted out laughing. We said, isn't that a blessing that now we just know it, but it's for a good. reason. Yeah. And we're happy about it, which this is before, you know, we didn't have any money when that happened. And, uh, which was not true. It was a wrong statement because who knew that a little show, you know, was going to hit

the air and all of a sudden, you know, and then guys like, no, I got this. But even then, I remember we were prepared. And look, it was funny when we went and paid off all our, our debt for all her surgeries, which was a substantial number. We're just like, here. you go. And because I really felt like we were fine with it. We had a good attitude about it, which I think is what James is kind of getting after about how you view money and all that. In the right circumstance, I thought, who cares? I don't care. I'm going to, not only am I not

going to try to save pennies and worry about it, we're going after the best doctor, you know, for our daughter. And we're really going to pile up some debt. And we would just, we would kind of smile about it. I think it had to be so bad where you get kind of giddy about that, because it was like the numbers were so big that you were like, I don't even know who I could call and borrow this from. I mean, this is just stupid amounts of money. But it was fine with it. And I thought, I'm going to be running from these bill collectors the rest of my life. But I don't, I don't give a rip. She's worth it. It's the, we're out of time, but it's the mindset of living within the will of God. because Lisa said the exact same thing you guys did when she found that she had breast cancer.

First, it was why me. And it quickly became, why not me? Exactly what you said. We had the same thing. We looked at all the money and we were just like, you know what? God's got this, which he has. And it's been amazing. So I want to talk about that more.

Next podcast we'll actually get in and rechange four. Because everything we talked about today is a setup for what's in here in terms of living within this will, what you ask for, all these different things like that. So we'll hit it next time. I'm done to share. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube.

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