Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1403 | Jase’s Security Gets Breached—and Phil’s Old Response Suddenly Makes Perfect Sense

Episode Date: August 20, 2026

A surprising comparison between pornography and marriage reframes the conversation around sex, beauty, and what can only be understood over the course of a faithful life. Jase, Al, and Zach connect that idea to the difference between what looks good in the moment and what actually leads to life, tracing the pattern from Eden to Solomon to the book of James. Jase also recounts the bizarre moment uninvited visitors made it through his security setup and wound up getting an unexpected message about Jesus and the resurrection. In this episode: 1 Peter 3, verse 15; James 3, verses 13–18; 1 Corinthians 2, verse 14; Psalm 127; James 1, verses 2–6; Exodus 31, verse 3; Exodus 35, verse 31; Psalm 107, verse 27; Genesis 1, verse 2; Proverbs 1–9; Genesis 2, verses 15–17; Genesis 3, verses 2–6 “Unashamed” Episode 1403 is sponsored by: https://myphdweightloss.com — Find out how Al lost 80+ pounds. Visit the website or call 864-644-1900 and mention "Al Robertson" to get 2 weeks free in the program! https://cozyearth.com/unashamed — Get up to 20% off when you use our link and code UNASHAMED! https://duckstamp.com/unashamed — Get your digital duck stamp online and keep it right on your phone! https://trustandwill.com/unashamed — Get 20% off estate planning with code UNASHAMED today! http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/ — Sign up now for free, and join the Unashamed hosts every Friday for Unashamed Academy Powered by Hillsdale College Listen to Not Yet Now with Zach Dasher on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or anywhere you get podcasts. Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! https://open.spotify.com/show/3LY8eJ4ZBZHmsImGoDNK2l Chapters 00:00 The Perfect Birthday Card 05:35 Strangers Breach Jase’s Gate 10:10 Phil’s Armed Encounter With an Uninvited Guest 15:10 What James Is Teaching Jase About People 19:20 Solomon’s Wisdom Takes a Dark Turn 25:40 Two Kinds of Wisdom 31:20 The Hebrew Meaning of Wisdom 38:10 Adam & Eve’s First Battle Over Wisdom 45:44 Godly Wisdom Was Built Into Creation 52:00 Receiving Wisdom vs. Possessing It — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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People thought denim on denim was peak fashion, inline skates were everywhere, and two out of three women rocked, the Rachel. While those things stayed in the 90s, one thing that hasn't is that fuzzy feeling you get when WestJet welcomes you on board. Here's to WestJetting since 96. Travel back in time with us and actually travel with us at westjet.com slash 30 years. I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. We just have been a few minutes since the last time we were together.

We're kind of in our boxes back in there. Last time we talked about some travel, Jason and I are doing quite a bit of that these days. And I want to mention that Lisa and I are going to be in Ocean City, New Jersey on August 30th at the Ocean City Tabernacle. Old Jersey Joe and Christine are going with us. So we'll have our own Jersey guides. We're going to be speaking there on that Sunday at the church. So if you're in that area, we'd love to see you. And look at our website, Al and Lisa Robertson.com.

That's where we've got all our events because we've got a lot coming up. So I love it. Zach and Jason, I met a guy in Minnesota. I met several great guys, but I met one particular gentleman that, and now it's almost everywhere I go. There's at least one, sometimes multiple. He had tears in his eyes. He said, please do not stop doing the Unashamed podcast.

It has changed my life. It's disciple me. I never miss an episode. I love what you guys are doing. So, brother, I forgot your name, but I remember your heart and those tears in your eyes. So thank you, Unashamed Nation. And when we're on the road, we like you to know where we're going to be because we love to meet you. And so we appreciate what you guys are doing for us out there.

Jace, you got anything to kick us off? Well, I had a birthday. I'm getting older. And my daughter gave me. 57. 57 now, Jay. Yeah. Isn't that something?

57. You are now, as dad would say, you're crowding 60. I think you reach a point in life where the birthdays are not met with the excitement that it once was. You think? And you don't really get any presents. You get experiences, you know. And so I went and played golf in 103 degree weather. And the goal was just to survive the outing.

I mean, it's in the middle of the day. And got together last night and played some cards. No Uncle Sy was there. And we ate gumbo. It was fun. But my daughter gave me the greatest card I've ever gotten. I'd like to read a little bit of it for you. You want to hear it?

We would love to hear it. It's not a teary-eyed thing. I just thought, you know, it'd be hard to pick something for me. and my daughter gave me this card and it's got a bunch of pictures of fish on it and it said holy mackerel you're one great dad no trout about it you totally kick bass you're a clown sometimes but you're in tuna with the times without you life would be crappy The whole family would flounder.

So, and I'm just not saying this for the halibut. You're the greatest dad ever, and that's no fish story. And then she put how she loves to fish with me. And I mean, I laughed. I got teary-eyed, and I thought, yes. Because she had just completed the process. a week or two ago. Because I take her fish and we go, we're fishing buddies now.

And she wanted me to teach her how to clean the fish because she wanted that process out that we were born with it. It was an honorable thing because we lived off the land. I mean, here's our parents teaching us this. And I shared this in the same story in an episode coming to you from Nashville. But it was just such an awesome thing that when I, I was out of town, she sent me a picture of some fish she had just cooked. And then I realized she caught it, she cleaned it, she cooked it, and she ate it. And she sent me the picture

and she was proud. So that was the backstory. That was very punny. Very punny. It was. But back to, you know, we talked about, we kind of went off the rails last time. Do with that as you will. but we were trying to do a reset on James. And I was telling you a story about, you know, my last event where it was kind of weird because we were doing Jesus stuff, but it was kind of a community event, and it led to a great discussion slash argument about the role of local churches and all that.

But what I am really about is doing that Jesus stuff, and in that conversation I have with one of the community leaders there, when he asked me to describe Jesus stuff, I went to John, but then I said, well, take yesterday, and I thought I'd share this with what happened at my house. And you got to remember, I have a gate. I have security. We're pretty well locked down. And when someone, you know, if someone knocks on my door, I find my weapon or, you know, just be quiet because in our family, you know, we, we just walk into each other's houses. There's no, because you feel like it's created that environment, you know, where that's just kind of the way we operate. So don't walk around in your underwear because, you know, your brother may show up or whatever, you know, it's just the way it is.

But I get a knock on my door after 12 days of traveling. I slept till 10 o'clock. I'm in my pajamas, and now it's noon and I'm cooking some lunch. Well, somebody knocked on the door. dogs go crazy you know and so i was like well it's not my family one they knocked to my dogs they know this is not a normal person and uh so i'm assuming it was some kind of delivery people because they can get through the gate and all that well open the door and i was like i know this fella but i'm not sure what his name is right off the top of my head but i knew i knew him

I said, come on in, what you got? But he would just, he stood there. And, of course, I didn't want to say who are you, because I knew I knew him. I just couldn't think of his name. And he said, I got some friends from the Texas Motor Speedway that want to meet you. Well, then I was like, what's going on here?

This is not planned. I know I know who you are, but I have not seen, I was thinking, I have not seen you in five years. And I said, who are you? And he said, well, you know me. We used to play cards together, you know. He said, you called me the grave digger. Well, then I remember he owns a funeral home.

I was like, oh, yeah, the grave digger. That's whatever's the most obvious. And always is the most obvious. And I said, well, how. Is either a pro wrestler or he owns a funeral home? I said, well, how did you get it? here and he said i drove i said no i got that but i got a security system in place that you've obviously breached and uh he said well the gate was open he said but i'll tell you this uh if you

if you bury people that they generally let you let you go wherever you want to go and i thought i'm not sure what that means but i guess whatever if you're dead i guess it's okay i mean what what are you going to do? Yeah. And so I was a little bewildered because I thought, this is weird that this guy, I have not seen him in five years and thought this was a good idea.

So in that moment of frustration, I thought of the Book of James. I thought about Jesus stuff, and I thought, well, the odds that that gate was open were about one in a million. And the fact that he just decided this was a good idea. So look, when the three guys came in, I'm telling you, my first impression was, you know, in that movie,

old brother, where Art thou, and they dressed up to be the band, the soggy bottom boys with the fake beard? These guys, I thought, well, no wonder, he's a grave digger, and he's got three potential clients. Because these dudes are old. I said, I guess he's working here.

and he thought it'd be cool to bring them over and meet a duck you know meet a duck man and we went to the texas motor speedway one time so i thought maybe that's what the connection was but i thought i'm taking this as a sign and so i said well i said i got three elderly gentlemen they're just looking at me they walked into my house i said running around with a grave digger and i hadn't seen this guy in five years. So I'm taking this as a sign that y'all need to hear about Jesus and the resurrection from the dead. Because trust me, the signs are here. Y'all are at death's door and he'll put you in the ground. Y'all are here with me and I'm going to tell you about a guy who can get you out of the ground. So while I'm eating lunch. And so that's what I did. And because I just thought I was

explaining to this fellow i was like i call that jesus stuff because i took something that i could have been mad about because this guy just on and out showed up you know and i mean most people would send me a text or you know ask a buddy to ask me if i was you know i'm open to it i was like but i thought you know maybe it was a sign they need to hear about jesus what's funny is they weren't ready for that so they basically never said over about 20 words and we took a picture and they left five minutes later. But, because I think it intimidated them, maybe scared them. I'm not sure.

I wasn't trying to offend them. I was just being honest. I thought, you're not going to be here long. This guy here, he's doing something, you know, that's a notable service to our community, but what life's really about is what I'm sharing with you. I do want to remind you guys about a new platform that we're on called ECHL. It's more than just a streaming service. It's got movies on it.

They've got series, Duck Dynasty's on there, our podcast, a lot of other podcasts as well, Daily Devotional's got kids content, a whole lot more coming soon. And you can get every episode of this podcast Unashamed without any ads. So if you don't like the ads, all you have to do is sign up at eKKL.com. Use our code unashamed. You get 20% off if you do that. That's EKK.kKL.com code unashamed. Echle.com Code Unashamed.

So, Jase, I got Jep down here visiting. He's lost about 25 pounds. You know, he's kind of now in that stage of mid-40s. And so we were talking about it. We kind of realized in our 40s that, you know, you just, all of a sudden, it just, the weight doesn't come off easy. You know, now they got the GLP ones, which is great with appetite, but it's really not a long-term solution.

And so our good friends that Ph.D. weight loss have helped me tremendously by understanding that you have to restore your metabolism. And the proof is sort of in the pudding, or at least in the picture, because there's a picture of me at the beginning of this journey, which has now been a year and a half ago. I've been in maintenance for several months now, 80 pounds lighter off of all of my meds that I was taken before for blood pressure, for cholesterol.

I really want to encourage you to check these guys out. It's a fantastic program. Right now, when you call and mention Al Robertson, you get two free weeks, and they'll pay for the cost of your food, which is a $1,500 vaccine. you call 864-644-1900 that's 864-644-1900 or go to my phd weightloss.com because the goal isn't to lose the weight just the one time but to never start over again that's 864-644-9100 to go to my phd weightloss dot com it reminds me of that story about the guy that time years ago that came down from

Missouri to talk to dad. And he had his wife and a baby and then a little older son with him. And he went through dad's property. He got around the gate. He left his wife and baby in the car, but went through a fence and got walked up to dad's house. Well, when he knocked on the door, he got the same thing, except worse because dad was standing there with an AR looking at him.

And it's like, who are you? And the guy just like turned into like a ghost. And he said, uh-uh, Mr. Phil, I just came to hear about Jesus. When dad said, if anybody had mischief on their mind, that's probably what they'd say. How do I know this to be true? He said, well, my wife and baby are back in the car. He said, well, go get them and come back. And then we'll talk about Jesus.

But they ain't there. You better keep going. Well, exactly. And so the guy, I met the guy later. He wasn't getting baptized. And I met him later. And I came up to him. I said, son, I said, what you?

did was a life or death deal. You put yourself on the, I said, I wouldn't go through people's private fences to get there, but I will say there were four guys that put a guy through the roof, and it all worked out for them. So I'm glad it worked out for you. That's a good story. I should have thought about that. Well, it's funny. The only reason, I mean, I have my pistol in arms reach, but the fact that I recognized him made me not pursue that venture again. But I gave him something better, which was the resurrection. And, you know, who knows. But I do think when you get into uncomfortable situations, Jesus seemed to have a knack for it. And I just think you've got to state the obvious, you know. I just thought you can't make this up. Yeah. And you never know.

Yeah, you just look at what's before you and it makes you think of the big picture. Yeah. I think that's why you've got to always be ready. That goes back to the first Peter three, right? Always be prepared to get an answer for the hope that you have. And you never know the scenario of the setting. You described, I thought about you days. You told a story a few podcasts back at the Dallas airport and having that guy who came to crash right there in the middle of because I was in Dallas twice this weekend going and coming to Minnesota. And I just, as I flowed through that snake line of humanity, I thought about that moment you described of, you never know when people are going to make their decision. Or what's going to prompt

to give them there. Well, we've been studying James so much. I just, it's really been one of the best studies we've done, in my opinion, because it just changed, it's changed how I view people. And our last flight, Missy and I from our event, the guy sitting in front of me, he was, and nothing, you know, nothing bad, he was just talking about why he came to, because we were all headed to Monroe. And he recently moved there.

Actually doesn't live too far away from me. And he was talking about different businesses and what he's into, and he's kind of in the technology world and who he's met and who he knows. And he was a talker, you know. But the guy sitting beside me, never said a word. I didn't even know if I knew him. But about halfway through the flight, something happened that started the conversation. But when I said, I said, what do you do?

And I was an older man. And he's like, ah, it doesn't matter. He said, what I've been doing is I'm coming back from mission. in Africa. And he was just telling me, I mean, they were helping kids and sharing Jesus.

And I just, it reminded me of me. I thought, you know, he asked, what do you do? And he's like, that doesn't matter.

That guy's the real baller probably. He's like, yeah, he don't mind. He probably, he's probably telling me, he was like, I'm not going to waste your time

telling you what I do, but I tell you what I just did. And it was exciting. That's good. And what he was doing was exciting me. And what I also notice is how humble he was because, you know, it wasn't like he brought, I mean, it took an hour before we ever even had the conversation, you know. And I just thought, man, that, that is exciting. So, you know, it's just what we think, you know, kind of a worldly, what's going on from a financial thing to who we're running with and who we know.

but really what life should be about as followers of Jesus and sons and daughters of God is how we're treating people because of our belief in God and doing things like that. That's what we should be doing. We left off in our study in James 3, 13 through 18, when we had introduced, well, actually, it introduced it way back in the first chapter, this idea of wisdom, heavenly wisdom versus earthly wisdom spiritual versus unspiritual the godly versus the evil one there's been a lot of different comparisons and the the statement came in verse 15 we said such wisdom does not come down from heaven but it's earthly unspiritual of the devil he gives three different descriptions of it and jace you

brought up the idea of the world which is mentioned here and he's going to get into that in chapter four as well. And I had mentioned before that this was the same comparison John used in his writings over 100 times this idea of the world within the world. And that's where this ungodly wisdom comes from. And so what he's showing is that basically the fruit of both of these and kind of how they play themselves out, which we talked about some in the last podcast. But this, I didn't bring out that this word unspiritual here, the Greek word, is psyche or is, It's actually, it's a kiki is in the Greek, but it's what we get our word psyche from. And in 1st Corinthians 2.14, the ESV calls it the natural man.

The NIV calls it the man without the spirit. And so I think that is part of what James is describing here, is the difference is that which comes natural, comes from our human experiences and existence and even impacted by the evil one, versus that which comes from the Holy Spirit, which, you know, in our case now lives in us. So that's kind of the dividing line of where we're headed in James 4. So you're saying, oh, oh, in 315, where he said, this is not the wisdom that comes down from above, but it's earthly unspiritual. Yeah, that word.

Yeah, because it's funny because I've been on a Solomon cake lately. And going back and reading through First Kings, primarily you've been interested in, how does a man like Solomon like go from building the temple to building the places where Molek got where there would be you know sacrifices to to Molek and then how does that happen and when you know I just really been interested in that so then you go back and read this lament and ecclesiastes which is something Lisa Harper pointed out that I hadn't considered this and you know I've done a good bit of research

on it this week, that Elysiazies was probably written at the end of Solomon's life after he had done all of it. After he... Oh, yeah. So he had accomplished the great things for God. He'd built the temple,

you know, get that incredible dedication, which is just such a great sermon on us in, great dedication to the Lord. Then he goes in and his heart's drawn away after these foreign women. His heart turns. He sacrificing these horrible sacrifices to foreign gods.

Then at the end of all of it, he goes back and surveys it all in writes ecclesiastes, which is the most depressing book in the Bible. You mentioned this earlier, Jace, about the books of wisdom. Because what he gets, the point that he essentially gets to is, like, I've tried everything,

and it's all meaningless. And I mean, when he says everything, even his wisdom that he asked, he said, I tried wisdom. And even that's meaningless. And I think the caveat here comes down to Psalm 127, which is also Psalm written by Solomon, and I think it's what's talked about.

I think it's what James is pulling out here. It's what Paul pulls out in verse Corinthians. That wisdom by itself is meaningless. If your wisdom is only the wisdom of the world, and that's all it is, then it's all in vain. If you build a house without the Lord, then the building of that is in vain. vain. If the Lord is the centerpiece of the building and of the wisdom, the divine wisdom,

then it's not in vain. I think that's what James is pulling out here, this idea that there's, wisdom has two ways that it actually manifests itself. One is the acknowledgement that it is actually divine wisdom or it's a human wisdom. One is in vain and one is actually human flourishing at its best. I don't know about y'all, but this has been one of the hottest summers that I remember. I think this has been the hottest summer that I can recall. You just, you think about going outside and you begin to sweat.

Yeah, well, that's why I've got my cozy earth bamboo sheets to keep me cool at night. But last night, I've got our AC turned down so low that I brought out the old bubble cuddle blanket because I got cold last night for the first time. Cozy Earth is all about making the home comfortable and making the home the best part of life with products.

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We do. It takes me back to our young days when we were just young lads, Zach, wear a matching pajamas. I don't remember where a match of pajamas. mom is in our young days, but now we do have a matching set. They're super soft or stretchy. They keep you comfortable without overheating. Give yourself the kind of comfort that lives with you all day, not just the moment you get home. Head on over to cozy earth.com.

Use our code Unashamed for an exclusive 20% off. And if you get a post-purch survey, mention that you heard about Cozy Earth right here on Unashamed. That's cozyearth.com code Unashamed. Comfort lives here. And you know what, to prove to add to that point, I thought about the story. about the two prostitutes and the one up before the judgment seat of Solomon. And it showed his wisdom when he said, well, let's just, you know, because one claimed it was her baby and the other one says, no, it's mine.

And Solomon's human wisdom, you know, and being, you know, God's man, had a great answer for him. He said, well, let's just saw the baby in half and then you can both have half the baby. but the one who was the mother said, no, let her have him. And then he knew who they belonged to. Well, that was a great ending to this story because a baby was saved. But think about it. It represented the two wisdoms in the two women. One would be willing to let the baby die rather than the other one,

hurt the real mother, happer, versus the one who would then give the baby up to save the baby's life. That's the two wisdom between godly wisdom and earthly wisdom. Solomon was just pointing that out in the moment, but the heart had to change in the woman who was willing to kill her own baby or kill the other woman's baby so that neither one of them would have her. That's the different picture of what we're talking about here. And Solomon, who resided over it, you know, in the moment had the right answer. But as he gets older and down the way to your description, the babies are thrown into the fire. And he helped make that happen. And Jerobo makes it worse.

Yeah, I think that's like a good, like, you know, just for the last podcast we got into where I want to say it did get heated, it just got like a little tense. But I think, and then we got a further discussion afterwards that we got a little more tense. But I think what the tension is that you can take the things of God and you can turn them into a form of wisdom that is devoid of life. And I think that's what I think that's probably what Jace was pushing back on. But if you look at Solomon's wisdom, you're right. The godly wisdom always leads to life. And it's hard to box that in sometimes in a simple doctrinal, you know, like format. Because, you know, you think about there's a philosopher that was talking about how beauty is essentially experienced or seen or encapsulated.

And he said he was using like the erotic nature of sexuality versus like the, the fidelity of a long-term marriage as to kind of how he contrasts these two things. He says, you know, the erotic, it can actually capture the aesthetic. It can capture the beauty in a moment because it could put it in a frame. Like literally, that's kind of what porn is. It's like it's a frame of human sexuality. You're looking at the frame. You've captured it.

It's right there. It's objectified. The other side, he says, on the marriage front, he said, how do you, how in the world would you actually be able to touch and to feel and to experience like the beauty and the aesthetic of marriage, of a faithful marriage? He said, that's the thing. You can't put it in a frame. He says, it can only be lived. And I think that's the, that's the human wisdom. Let's take it. Let's put it in a frame. I got it. The divine wisdom is a wisdom that is lived. It's a wisdom that is fully experienced and embodied over the, of a lifetime.

somebody. And I think that's the point that it's a, Zach, is the difference between a thumbnail and current language and a movie and a long movie. You know, that's the different picture you're describing. What is something in the temporary moment versus something that goes over the course of a person's life, a bio pick? Well, good. I'm glad, uh, Zach finally saw my point of view because I'll be a lot nicer in my presentation.

I'm a peacemaker, Jace. No, no, you're right. You depicted my view. And I was, since I never really got to my point on the last podcast, I'm going to start it with an echoing some of what you just said. When you look at the book of James, where he starts off in the first chapter, when he says, verse two, count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials, various kinds, you know that the of your faith produces perseverance or steadfastness, and let that have its full effect,

then you may be perfect and complete or mature, lacking in nothing. If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach and it will be given to him. But let him ask in faith with no doubting for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea. seems like a strange way to start letter talking about asking for wisdom fast forward to chapter three and then as you accurately depicted it's like well wisdom is just wisdom but he he makes a point of saying the source so the reason i read james one is because that wisdom from heaven that is that has all these great qualities, you know, peaceable, gentle, open reason, full of mercy, good fruits.

That's coming from heaven, which makes sense on why he said, hey, if you lack it, ask him. That's where you get it. So the source is the point. And when faith without deeds came up, he's like, just believing is not enough. even the demons believe. That wisdom from heaven is lived, as you're saying. So it made me try to, when you depicted my view, which I appreciate because I agree 100%.

You said it's hard to doctrinally, what did you say, encapsulate what we're talking about here? I had the same thought. And so I went to AI and I had all my disclaimers. without denominational dogma, only using grammar, overall biblical themes, context in history, please define the Hebrew word for wisdom. This shocked me when I took out the doctrinal denominational lingo in our 2006 definition of the word wisdom, What I found in the Hebrew culture and definition of the word is shocking, and I would like to read it.

Are you ready? We're ready. The biblical Hebrew word for wisdom is chakma. Take my word for it. It is a feminine, a feminine noun derived from the root verb. Chakam, meaning to be wise, skillful, or stute. Now, you're going to see what I asked in this definition, which I like, but it says, when you strip later theological or denominational systems from the word chakma, it fundamentally

means applied competence, technical mastery, and expert navigation of life. It is not abstract philosophy or passive contemplation, but functional know-how. Now, when it comes to the grammar, that was the first, that was the introduction to the definition of this Hebrew word. When it comes to the grammar and the linguistic context, I know this is technical, but this is really fascinating. It's a feminine noun. It appears roughly 149 times in the Hebrew Bible. So this Old Testament. Root action, the verbal root emphasizes doing, functioning, and performing. Concrete versus abstract.

While it evolved to include ethical discernment, its earliest and most concrete biblical applications are entirely vocational and physical. Using across biblical context, this is what I ask, so this is what we're getting. craftsmanship and artistry. In its earliest uses, Chakma describes the practical, structural genius of master artisans, jewelers, and builders. For example, skilled workers filled with Chakma or wisdom to construct the tabernacle in Exodus 3133 and 3531. So if you go read those verses, you'll see. They were skilled based on doing this stuff. in real life, and then God gave them a spirit of wisdom to use that for him.

You follow, those were, I look those verses up there, very interesting. Social and administrative competence. It designates the sharp strategic insight required of state rulers, judges, and negotiations. Al, that was kind of to your point, make judges making decisions and all this. Seamanship and survival. You said, what does that got to do with the wisdom? It is used for the navigational expertise of sailors handling a ship through dangerous waters, Psalm 107, 27.

Ethical and relational acumen. In wisdom, literature, proverbs, ecclesiastes, Job, it scales up from physical building blocks to interpersonal strategy, knowing how to speak, manage conflict, avoid self-destruction, live successfully within the created order. I just find this fascinating. I mean, everything I'm reading here, you realize James knew what that word meant. Yeah.

J. It's that time of year, it's coming up, and I know we were with a certain country music singer last week, and I noticed you invited him on a duck hunt. That's a big deal. We are now in the process, because there's two stages of life, duck hunting and getting ready to duck hunt. Well, some of the best mornings,

as they happen when you're sitting in a duck line together. Zach, no doubt about it. I remember sitting there in the morning, you know, with Jason's sons being in there, our generation is there, dad is there, the coffee is steaming off the cup, the sun is coming up, we're shooting ducks. Those kind of memories will be in my memory brain forever. But if you're going to do it, you've got to have a federal duck stamp. The federal duck stamp that helps make sure that our kids and grandkids still have those

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yours today. That's duckstamp.com. It's interesting, too, going back to kind of the previous conversation. The word in Hebrew for word is masculine. The Hebrew word is. And so that would be more of kind of who, like the self expression of God, right? And then, but then the wisdom is the, how does God make the world intelligible? You know, like, what is the, what is that? And so I think about how these things kind of work together. It's that complementarian, nature, but actually you see it in the trinity. It's like there's this beauty that's emerging.

I mean, Christ, or think about like the, have you guys seen that painting the prodigal son by Rembrandt? And I actually had the painting right over there, not the painting, but a replica. And you have this father who's embracing his son. And if you look at the hands of the father, as he embraces his son, Rembrandt painted one of the hands to look like more of a masculine, kind of firm hand, but the other hand is a more feminine motherly embrace. So you actually have in Rembrandt's painting a beautiful picture of the nature of God of both the masculine and the feminine, the strength with the embrace

holding in the sun together. And it's such a, you know, one of an icon, it's one of the most iconic paintings in history because it gives us that picture. Oh, you're going. you're going down the black hole with me because when you get to proverbs one through nine in the song of solomon all of a sudden this lady wisdom emerges yes as as a woman and that that's where this is heading and uh it's so fascinating uh but i want to finish reading the definition of the word i know this is the longest definition in the history of definitions but i put it in such a way that I didn't want to get into modern culture theological, you know, definitions of what it means. And just what was the point that James was making?

Because that's where we're getting off. He gave you the key to understanding the argument about faith and deeds. And it really, you start to see it more clearly when you understand what the actual Hebrew word for wisdom meant. and you have four books that are entirely, look, what's fascinating about Proverbs, ecclesiastes that you brought up, Job, and the Song of Solomon, is it's like the whole story stops about Israel. I mean, Job, he was not an Israelite. No, he was probably Abraham or before, yeah.

Yeah, it's just some dude. You have the song of Solomon. Here's this semi-erotic poetry. You know, and this between, you know, married sex potentially, and, you know, it's poetry that's like, whoa, what in the world? This helped me understand this because, look, when I go, when I, it led me to go back to the garden. Because in that song of songs, there's all this garden imagery. And you're like, well, let's go back here and see if we can find wisdom. And look, just to give you a thumbnail, and I'll let you speak, but I just want to give you a thumbnail.

Do you remember when Eve, and I'm going to break that verse down, when here you have in the garden, humans are given this kind of wisdom to do what? Subdu the earth, Lord over it. Rain with God, be his image bears in work and leadership and rule. So these are things that would manifest the true definition of wisdom. And then he has all these things that are good. Look, everything's good. He creates it, good, good, good, good, good. Oh, not good for a man to be alone.

Good, solved that problem. Here's a woman. And then he gives this picture of all the freedom you can enjoy while you're doing the work that reflects me. And then he says he comes to that one tree. And all of a sudden you're introduced to wisdom and where you're. you're going to get from it. And you don't really realize it till later when the evil one tempts, because he's in that category of the earthly wisdom.

Remember what the woman said to herself when she looked and saw that it was good to eat, and then it was good for gaining wisdom? Ooh, now you see the wisdom from heaven. He said, trust me, I've given you a job. This is all good. Everything's good. There's one tree here. Not good.

Trust me. Go ahead. And you mentioned, so here's where I would connect the two of what you just said, because you brought up the tabernacle in Exodus 33. So you have these two guys that were commissioned, Alohiab and Bezile, who were commissioned to actually build the actual tabernacle. And these were craftsmen, by the way.

These were artisians. These were, I mean, these guys were, when they were skilled craftsmen. And if you think about their role in Exodus 33 to build a tabernacle, the Bible says here they were filled with the spirit, which, by the way, that's the first time that that's used in the Bible since Genesis 1, verse 2, about the spirit of God coming and filling up someone or something. So the spirit of God is filling them up. And so they were actually filled with wisdom because they needed to know how to essentially how reality could be ordered to its proper end.

So they're building this tabernacle with the intention of building it to its proper end. You said, well, what is the point of the tabernacle? So I actually just wrote about this weekend. So I'm glad you brought up Exodus 33. I read the Bible for the first time, like, cover to cover about 15 years ago with Jill when she was doing this Bible in a year thing. And I'd read the Bible my whole life, but I'd never read it from cover to cover in a year. I did it that year. And when I got to the part in Exodus where it starts talking about all these, like all the details of the tabernacle, I just skim through that.

Or when you get to First Kings and you start reading through all the laborious details of how Solomon was sufficient. supposed to build the temple. I just, I skimmed through all that stuff. But here's the, but later on in my life, I realize I go back and read that now. I'm like, no, these, these details, he says, I want you to build this tabernacle exactly as I've told you to build it. I want you to pack, because it's a pattern of something. And what it's a pattern of, it's a pattern of Eden. So, so as these guys are receding wisdom, what is the point of the wisdom? The point of the wisdom is that the wisdom, it tells us how to build the world and how to actually build things to their proper end.

Now we're back to teleology. We're back to tell us perfection. That's the whole point of James. So wisdom, what she's doing is she's aligning our craftsmanship in the world and pointing it to its proper end to actually live in reality. That's what godly wisdom does. Godly wisdom actually brings us into reality so that our efforts are not in vain. We're not building like Solomon built post-temple.

We're not building idols. That's in vain. We're actually building for a purpose. And the purpose of that building is we are building a house for God to live in. That's the temple theology that you see. in the construction of the tabernacle in Excess 31. And it also shows you why he built us in his image. So the potential's there for every single human being,

whoever is born on this earth, to then align those two things together. Because God made us in his image to be that and to be that light. And so all that we're missing is his spirit, his godly wisdom, to join those two forces together. Because you are the temple now. You are the tabernet. You are the dwelling place of God.

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slash unashamed and get 20% off. That's trust and will.com slash unashamed to get your 20% off. Trust A.N.D.will.com slash unashamed. Well, I wanted to finish this definition. Okay. So the last definition, based on what I put in there, overall biblical themes. Listen to this. Functional alignment. To possess chakma is to understand how the structural rules of the physical and moral universe operate and to act in harmony with them rather than against them. Pragmatic outcome.

The test of chakma in text is results. Does a choice lead to life, stability, and order, or to chaos, ruin, and foolishness? Now we're getting into James. Oh, man. And there's an interesting verse in Proverbs when we read, because I'm going to go through one through nine, which echoes exactly what that definition. I know that's where they got that from. And I'll read that.

foundational all, the recurring motif across the text, the fear of, like, for example, the fear of Yahweh is the beginning of Chakma, wisdom, functions contextually as an admission of human limitation, true mastery begins with humble recognition of the objective reality and boundaries set by the creator. That's going to be a good introduction to chapter four. Yeah. Because he lays this out saying, here's the standard, and it's high. Yeah. Because God's perfect. That's right. And he's like, but if you'll humble yourself, because you're not going to meet that standard, I'm going to give you more grace.

I mean, it's really powerful. And I know right in the middle of that is one of the most controversial verses in the Bible. And usually I avoid controversy. but we'll dedicate a whole podcast to that coming to you because that shouldn't be a controversy. That when you look at where wisdom starts in the book of Genesis and where James is pontificating on it years later,

there's no controversy there. We'll correct that problem once and for all. But in our last few minutes, since we brought up Adam and Eve, I wanted to bring this up. When you go read the actual text where he brings up basically the standard here. Everything's good.

So when you go back to that story, Genesis 2, 15, it says the Lord God took the man, put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and keep it. So there's the reflection, and there's the deeds, I guess, of his wisdom in creating man. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, and you're like, well, why do we have commandment?

Because we're setting the standard here. You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat, or good and bad, depending on the translation. For in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die. All right. So when you think about that phrase, good and evil. It's a phrase that's used a lot in the Hebrew Bible. And it symbolizes moral maturity because I look this up, I know we don't have time to do it right now. But the reason I know it's

moral maturity, which goes in with what James, his whole point about you being complete, if you need wisdom, you ask God so that you be, you could be complete and mature, that tell you. us, Zach, that word, is because there's several references it'll say like throughout Israel's history. They'll have children and they'll say they don't know good or bad yet. But it's also interesting enough, I found a couple of cases where it's used for old people. When they've reached a place where they no longer know good or bad. And I don't have to prove that to you. You can see that in real life. Yeah.

You know, a little baby, try to have a conversation about wisdom. But they don't know what's going on. And then they're, unfortunately, you know, you see it in older people when they, where they lose the ability to discern. So that's where I'm... We saw it in our parents with Zach's mom and our dad, you know. Get to a point where he couldn't, they can't decipher reality or anything for that matter. Yeah.

And so then when you get to the part of the text where, now where's the, I have this new Bible, it's hard to find anything, where she looks at the tree. That's three, two. Yeah. So, well, where is it when she looked at it?

Yeah, yeah. So three two says, and the woman said to the serpent, we may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden. And you got to remember, this is all good. All these trees that, remember he said there's good

and there's a connection between desirable, which was good. You're going to have this desire because everything he made is good, and you see that it's good to eat. Those things connect. You also see, so when you think about desirable being good and you're seeing something you want to consume it, well, just think about humans. everything what we do whether it's earthly wisdom or godly wisdom we think it's good for us

that's why we do it we make that same connection that's here in the first couple of pages of genesis we connect those dots because she's she's going through that process that we all go through I want something that's good for me and then when I see it not only do I want to just look at it I want to be a part of it. And it's kind of the definition of life. And you got to remember, it goes back to the same cycle that James started. After he said, Ask Wisdom, you'll become mature and complete. Then what does he do?

He gives the death cycle and the life cycle. Well, that goes back to what he said. God said, if you eat of that tree, what's going to happen? You're going to die. You're going to die. But it's not the, I think I've heard this argument. I think it's resonating with me right now as you're explaining this. In Genesis three, it's humans saying, I'll take wisdom.

I want to possess it. In First Kings three, it's Solomon saying, Lord, give me wisdom. It's not a possession of wisdom. It's received as a gift from God. And that's why it says that the Lord was pleased when Solomon asked him for wisdom. I think that's one of the things about that, like what Satan's doing here is he's telling them that wisdom is something you have to possess. No, I agree.

I agree. I think that's the difference between the two types of wisdom. One wisdom, an earthly wisdom is a wisdom that I possess autonomously. A godly wisdom is a wisdom I received from his revelation. But he did give them wisdom in the beginning. And then when you set the scene, because he told them, this is all good, you're free to eat, here's your partner in ruling over the land and, you know, and subduing the earth and also creating babies.

I mean, the whole function of man from God's view. And so then this conversation happens. We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, you shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden. Neither shall you touch it lest you die. By the way, God didn't say don't touch it. Adam obviously told her not to touch it. Yeah.

You won't die. For God knows that when you eat of it, your eyes will be open and you will be like God, knowing good and evil. To your point, now you possess the godly wisdom in and of yourself. You did it. That's right. That's right. So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food and that it was a delight to the eyes, and the tree was to be desired to make one wise.

She took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband. So I'm saying this goes all the way to the beginning. And what I'd like to do is go through Proverbs, because I think that gives a lot of clarity to what not only happened there, but you see James all over the writing. I'd like to do that next. Well, and I would add in to, it may not be a part of your thing, but same with Job,

because I've been doing a deep dive into Job lately, and it's the same stuff there, especially when you put in the trials and the persecutions and all the different things in there. I think we're going to wind up in the same page. So we'll get into that next time on Unashame. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.