Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1424 | A Dream Gig with Hank Williams Jr. Sparks a Controversy About Our Place in Culture

Episode Date: September 21, 2026

The Dasher family gets a full-circle surprise when Zach’s son and daughter land a dream gig opening for Hank Williams Jr., the same artist who soundtracked Zach and Jill’s first date. Jase, Al, and Zach also challenge the divide between “sacred” and “secular,” arguing that faith should shape the way people work, create, serve, and relate to others in every part of life. The guys dig into why disagreement so often turns into alienation and why burning every bridge over differences can do more harm than good.  In this episode: James 5:7-11; James 4:11; James 2:8-13; James 3; James 4; John 3:16; John 10; John 12:30-32; John 16:7-11; 2 Corinthians 5; Luke 15; Ephesians 4; Ecclesiastes; Job 2-3; Proverbs 11:1-4 Want to watch the Lost Episodes of Unashamed, only on EKKL? Get 20% off with code UNASHAMED, and watch faith- and family-friendly movies, podcasts, and more: https://ekkl.com/ “Unashamed” Episode 1424 is sponsored by: https://cozyearth.com/unashamed - Get up to 20% off when you use our link and code UNASHAMED!  https://myphdweightloss.com - Find out how Al lost 80+ pounds. Visit the website or call 864-644-1900 and mention "Al Robertson" to get 2 weeks free in the program! https://chministries.org/solution - Get a better solution at half the cost of traditional healthcare! http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/ - Sign up now for free, and join the Unashamed hosts every Friday for Unashamed Academy Powered by Hillsdale College Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/at-home-with-phil-robertson/id1835224621 Listen to Not Yet Now with Zach Dasher on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or anywhere you get podcasts. Chapters 00:00 Zach’s Kids Land a Full-Circle Gig 05:06 Hank Williams Jr. & the Dasher Connection 09:18 Christians Don’t Belong in a Cultural Bubble 13:42 James Warns against Judging Your Neighbor 20:37 ‘Rock-Throwing’ Christians 27:29 ‘Doing Jesus Stuff’ Is for Everybody 33:07 Ordinary People Are the Best Gospel Influencers 40:53 There’s No Divide between Sacred & Secular 48:30 Job’s Friends’ Lesson in What Not to Say - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashame. Zach, the last podcast, you had mentioned before something about what your kids are doing. Oh, I got a phone call yesterday. I'm assuming you mean you're singing, you're singing children, your adult children. They're not kids. Zach, let me help you. What did you call yours?

Your offspring? What do you say? What are you referenced? My grown adult children. He has two adjectives in front of me. There you go. There's a lot to keep up with. Well, no, Jill calls me yesterday.

Have you talked to Layla? Have you talked to Layla today? I said, no, she'd call me. I didn't call her back yet. I've been a recording podcast all day. And she said, well, you need to call her. And you need to put me on a speaker phone. I'm thinking, I mean, what would you think if somebody called?

I would think she may be expecting. Every time my wife says something like that, I say, well, let me just say, no matter what this is about. they're grown adults. We don't want to be hover parents. Leave and cleave. That doesn't just apply to the young people. That applies to the parents.

They will leave their father and mother. Well, it doesn't address the father and mother, but that means you have to let them go. You got to let them go. No doubt. Well, I called later expecting her to tell me that she is, pregnant and but instead she said you're not going to believe who we're opening for i said who because they you know they're kind of on they're on tour with larry right now

but they also kind of do some other shows they opened up for some guy montana can't remember that was and that there's a lot of larry's exal larry larry fleet my my father-in-law is named larry not that larry they're not open it for larry which would be that would be good show there if they sang and then larry pretty i think it'd be great well larry wrote book called Strings Against the Wind or something. So he's all about that guitar picking. But they, no, she said, you're not going to believe who we're opening for. And I said, who?

And she said, Hank Williams, Jr. I said, that is, I said, do you realize that you would not be here without Hank Williams, Jr. And she's like, what are he talking about? I said, the very first date that I took your mom on, we were, we went to, Shorty Smalls, which is a barbecue place at Little Rock, Arkansas. I don't know if it's still there. I got the barbecue ribs. I still remember what I was wearing and what Jill was wearing that night.

And so we went walking downtown, and they had a Hank Williams Jr. concert going on downtown Little Rock. And I found a, you know me, you guys were making fun of me for being cheap. I was cheap back then. I found a hill that was like an open little hill area overlooking the field. So you didn't have to buy tickets. didn't buy tickets and we watched the entire show and uh and that was like our first day where we were the magic the magic happened under the moonlight listening to hank williams juniors i said you're here we are full circle i never would have thought in that moment i never would if you just said

you guys are going to get married one day you're going to have kids and they're going to be opening in concert for that guy i would i would have been like no i never would that that would have never crossed my imagination but but yeah so they're that's why that's pretty remarkable Well, what's remarkable is we left off on the last podcast, Sam, we were going to talk about the end of times, which we also off-camera talked about, because I did my little dove tail, and I said, well, wouldn't it be nice to put prints on

and have a little When the Doves cry? But then I realized, because I didn't know that that costs money, and Zach is so tight. Well, now what you said was, you said everybody, all these other podcasts have bumper music and all this stuff. Why don't we have that? And then Maddie said,

well, that costs money. And I instantly smiled like, I pre laughed because I knew. We left out one part of that. There was five seconds of silence. Because nobody wanted to say the obvious, which is,

oh, Zach's way too tight for that. But I was, I knew it was coming. So I was smiling. And in my mind, I was going, three, two, one. And then you said it was, Zach's cheap. I mean, whatever you said. Oh, yeah, now we know why because Zach's so cheap.

But y'all don't even realize where I'm going with this because we left off on the end of time. But as soon as you said that they're opening for Hank Williams, Jr., so maybe this is a sign from God, the first thing that popped in my head was, the preacher man says it's the end of time. and the Mississippi River, she's a going drive. See, we have to sing our own songs on this bike. I probably know every word to every song that Hank Williams, Jr. ever sang. I probably know them all. Well, that's troubling. Did you bury that when you came to the Lord?

No, I kept it going. Well, the old man, you need to. Because I did the same thing. The only country music song I liked for years was, that country boy can survive. And, of course, I think I've shared this before, but my dad vehemently rebuked that. Because even though he said, you got some of it, right?

Jason, I had to hide my eight track. Remember, because I had it on an eight track tape. Well, all the rest of the songs, though, reminded my dad of his former way of life. That was where I was going with that. And he was like, no, I buried that old man. So they're doing it. They're going to be down there opening up

in Cincinnati. So is it like a several concerts or just just one offer? It's one show. This is kind of like, you know, they're,

but they're getting, you know, they're getting some shows out there now. And, you know, what's funny, Zach, is I actually met

Hank's daughter and he reached out saying he wanted to go treasure hunting with me. And we almost did it when we did that Duck Family Treasure show, but it just,

his schedule our schedule had to be here and uh i found that fascidates he he's a treasure hunter i don't know if you knew that i didn't know that but hank's one of those guys is like yeah hang there's certain kind of music that when i listen to it it like it brings me back to my childhood like keith whitley conway twiddy i don't know why it's like i think granny and pa the whole it's like it's a way of life that you just kind of if you didn't grow up in it you don't know what it is but, but it's, yeah, so they're, we're full circle now. Whenever we saw Hank, you know, me and Jill were 20, I guess, I was about 20 years old, but it's crazy.

He's still touring and apparently selling a ton of tickets, too. It's a big venue. But I just thought, man, that's, that's kind of nostalgic. So we would like, be and Jill would like to go, but we just, we can't make it up to Cincinnati. I would love to see that. I mean, I'll say this, I mean, because we had your kids on the podcast. I mean, their sound goes with anything. It's so beautiful and harmonious and just, I don't know.

I could see, it reminds me, they kind of remind me of a lot of the music was on, oh, brother, we're out there with the harmonies and kind of, I don't know, I would call it an old-timey something, but really, really rich and good. So I definitely think they're up and coming. God's going to use them in some powerful ways. I think people get uncomfortable when we start talking about stuff like this. some church people.

But I just think that God, you know, for whatever reason, called our family to be on the cutting edge of, you know, trying to convert people in the world. And so even our show, Duck Dynasty. So these kind of conversations happen with that because since we were discovered in the world and then people were like, oh, y'all believe in Jesus. I mean, you know, but that same dynamic happens in the world. I think to think about it is, though, where the bigger discussion comes in, and this is, I mean, I'll fight this every day of the week, that. Well, come on. Let's fight it. You'll agree with me.

And it's honestly part of what we were talking about in the last podcast, because we got in the book of James, we were kind of ending it out. We were kind of talking about this 80-70 concept where, you know, the temples destroyed things. But what is that? Because a lot of that stuff, when you get into the whole concept about the destruction of the temple, Mark 13, which we're going to get into today, you think, what does it really matter? Here's why it matters. This is why this whole discussion on ascotology matters. Because if Jesus, if one of the primary purposes of his ministry was to establish a new temple of which he would be the cornerstone and we would be. be the living stones built upon that cornerstone. What that does is, is it tells us that in God's economy, in God's world, there's actually no such thing as a secular, secular music or

secular TV shows or secular this and secular that and then sacred over here. It's all His, it's all redemptive. God's people are to go into all of these spaces and create culture, create restaurants, create food, create art, create music, all the things. And so it's one of the reasons why Duck Dynasty was actually so effective. What was so effective about Duck Dynasty is that it was not a sermon. It wasn't a show on TBN where someone got up and preached the gospel. It was a show, not that we need that. We need the preaching of the gospel.

But we also just need Christians to go into the world and be in the world. and that's what it was. It just, it broke through the culture because it was like, oh, they pray at the end of the show, but like, and, the end is the big part is that,

oh, there's a whole worldview that undergurge what this family represents, what this family is. And that was the curiosity. That creates the imagination. I do want to remind you guys about echo eKKL.com. It's the only place that you can get this podcast without any ads.

So if you're like, I don't like the ads, or we have a solution for you. all you have to do is sign up for ECHL at ECHL.com. That's EKK.com. Use our code Unashamed. You guys will get 20% off a year-long subscription, which makes it less than six bucks a month. Very affordable. We also had the first 12 episodes of the Anashane podcast that were ever recorded that we never released to the public. You guys can check that out there along with a host of movies. We've got the new Daniel movie that's going to be on the platform after it leaves the theaters.

After it leaves the theaters. We've got the movie The Blind. We've got God's Not Dead. a bunch of your favorite faith-based films, Case for Christ, all on the platform. You guys could check it out, Echle.com. I think this week is when we're going to experience fall weather, but it has been hot, and so you've got to change your sheets out. I use the bamboo sheets from Cozy Earth when it's hot outside, and then I use my bubble cuddle blanket whenever fall hits.

I'm actually, I'm ready. I don't know about y'all, but I'm ready for bubble cuddle season. We are still very hot here, and so the blankets are still on. hole, but the cozy earth sheets are definitely in full bloom. Well, what I love about cozy earth is that it's all about making the home, the best part of life with products that are thoughtfully made, comfortable, and they're all built to last. They've got jogger sets, which are designed to be your go-to outfit. You can relax in them. You can run errands in them. They're absolutely amazing, lightweight, breathable, soft, and a fit that looks like you're put

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podcast. That's CozyEarth.com Code, unashamed. Comfort lives here. But I think that's part of James' point when he says, no, just think about where we're at. When he says in James 5, well, we haven't read this yet, so I'll read it and then make my point. He says, be patient, my brothers, until the Lord's coming. This is James 5.7. See how the farmer waits for the land to yield its valuable crop and how patient he is for the autumn and spring rains.

Now, he had just talked about these people who are professing to believe, who are rich. Maybe Al, you said the Sadducees and the religious leaders, the same bunch that Jesus has taken on. Jewish elite. Who are taking advantage of poor people and doing them wrong and inflicting all kind of suffering on these people. So now James is kind of addressing those people saying, look, he addressed those, the oppressors, by saying, this is not going to end well.

for you. And now he's addressing the people that are being oppressed said, be patient. In verse 8, you too, be patient and stand firm because the Lord's coming is near. Now, we'll discuss that. Preacher Man says it's the end of time. Don't grumble against each other. Now, this sounds familiar. Because in the previous chapter, he said, don't slander one another. Don't grumble. Who's he talking to here? He's talking to the police.

Believers who are grumbling and slandering other human beings and or believers. Don't grumble against each other, brothers, or you will be judged. Well, he brings this idea about judging, which is going to go back to the sermon on the mouth. Because then he says the judge is standing at the door. Well, what door is he taught? about, which we need to discuss. But for the conversation that we're having right now, I'm just going to show you where he's brought this up before.

So if you look at chapter four in verse 11, it says, brothers, don't slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law. Now, he's making a very sophisticated argument here because if you go back, to James 2 in verse 9 he says if you really keep the royal law found in scripture love your neighbor as yourself what's royal law we talked about that's that's Jesus's law that he introduced love your neighbor marry you love God with all your heart soul mine's trade love your neighbor's self you're doing right but if you show favoritism you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers.

Forever keeps the whole law and someone's at one point, it's guilty of breaking all of it. For he who said don't commit adultery also said

don't murder. If you do commit adultery, do not commit murder, you become a law breaker. Speak and act as those who

are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom. How does the law give freedom? And we talked about all this stuff. It's all coming

together because he keeps repeating it, but then he says mercy triumphs over judgment in 212. So going back to four, He then says, when you judge the law, this is verse 11, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it.

There is only one lawgiver and judge the one who is able to save and destroy it. But who are you to judge your neighbor? Well, he just said the royal law is loving your neighbor. So now he's fast forward to chapter 5 and 9, don't grumble against each other or you will be judged. The judge is standing at the door. So there are the three times he addressed that. And that's why I called them the police. They're not loving their neighbor, which all these projects that I'm doing,

I've been to things where everybody's drunk, but me, you're like, what are you doing? I'm loving my neighbor. I get up and I blow some duck calls and then I share Jesus. But I've had people in those instances say, why are you going there? Why would you a Christian shouldn't be going in that environment? Oh, that irks me so much. Because I'm like, I don't ask the question, what would Jesus do?

Because I would go to Luke 15 where he told the three parables after the reasoning on why he was eating with tax collectors and sinners. I ask the question or make the statement, what is Jesus doing in that moment? Yeah. What is he doing? What am I doing in that moment? I'm loving my neighbor, enough to say you were created by God, and he has a relentless love for you, which answers the questions on how you got here, what you're doing here, and what happens next.

So I'm a little bit, I get ticked off about this, because I think James's point is our point. These things in the world that we like, oh, you know, we must. abandon any involvement with this, go find a building, hunker down, and survive until he comes back. And I'm reading this thinking, I think you've missed the whole point of the royal law and how we're supposed to be operating. That's good. It's a, I would say, a misuse of what God has created in us. Like you mentioned about us being the temple of the Holy Spirit, well, if we took that, if we took the, the actual housing of God that's now in us and totally aim that just at each other,

where we would gather up and it would only be spent and only be shared, all the great fruit of the Holy Spirit with people outside that don't know Jesus. We're doing a disservice to being the house of God. We should be out there flowing where people understand and see it. In the modern world, you know, there's all these people now on the internet, on social media and all these other places. they call them influencers. You young people, and they get followers that watch everything they do and

people pay them money because they get a big following. Well, we're gospel influencers. That's why we're on this podcast. That's why we go places like you described, Jay. That's why we share anywhere we're at. We're gospel influencers. We're trying to get them to see the goodness of Christ. Are we imperfect?

Absolutely. But you pointed it out perfectly clear, Jay's. Jesus ran in those circles when he was here. The only time he had the real clashes is when he was talking to the people that James is talking about in this text. Yeah. That's when the sparks flew when Jesus ran up on the elites because they were judgmental and they were hypocritical and they were corrupt. And it made him angry. I mean, it's one of the few times you saw him get really, really mad was over this type thing.

Well, this is James's point. And I feel a sermon coming on, and I feel like I made this point on the last podcast, which got crickets from y'all, so maybe you don't understand what I was saying. Or maybe this wasn't any good. Well, when I brought up this, look, I brought up this individual thing. And I think our theology gets so individualistic that there's a danger that it becomes like the earthly wisdom that is described in James III. Selfish ambition and bitter envy is of the devil.

That wisdom. When you make everything about your take on, you know, you're throwing rocks at other Jesus followers because, oh, they're going to a sinful environment. They shouldn't do that. We should stay away from that. I'm like, well, why don't you come with me and see how, see what I'm doing there? Because I'm being real clear that God, through Jesus, is reconciling the world to himself. He's not going to be able to do that from quiet believers.

It's just not going to happen who are just worried about their own salvation and not the job we're supposed to do. And where I'm getting that is when you read that in James 3 and then in James 4, he's talking about humbling yourself for God. And he says, resist the devil and he'll flee from me. He's brought up the evil and twice. And it's all hooked up this selfish ambition. Well, if you go back and read John where Jesus, you have his life depicted. And the most famous verse in John is John 316, for God so loved the world. And that's what he came here to do is to save it, not condemn it.

But fast forward to then, John chapter 12, I just find this fascinating and I want to read it. because we're underestimating the power of the evil one to use selfish ambition, not only in the world as far as indulgent in sin, but in the church for you to be throwing rocks at everybody and not loving your neighbor. And I want to read this in John 12. You remember when he was describing his death, which is right after John 10, where he said, I'm the good shepherd, the thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy.

Well, we know he's talking about. Well, then he goes on in John 10. 10 talking about how good a shepherd he is, that he laid, nobody takes his life from him. He lays it down by his own accord. So, Zach, I remember it well. I'm rocking along. I'm in my 40s. I'm in decent health, decent shape.

Not really working hard at it, but just kind of coasting along. And then all of a sudden, it's like I hit an invisible wall. It was a place where I'm starting to gain weight. I can't get rid of it. So then our good friends that Ph.D. Weight Law stepped in, became a sponsor of this podcast. I also offered me the opportunity to lose some weight the right way by restoring my metabolism, which helps my body work for me and with me and not against me. If you're watching this on YouTube, here's a picture of me at the beginning of the process. And here I am now.

80 pounds off. I'm off all my meds, much healthier, no CPAP machine anymore, after 12 years of that ball and chain. So life is better with PhD. And right now, Now, when you call and mention Al Robertson, you'll get two free weeks and they'll pay for the cost of your food, which is a $1,500 value. Call them at 864-644-644-1900. That's 864-644-1900, or you can go to my Ph.D. Weightloss.com. The goal isn't to lose the weight once, is to never having to start over again. That's 864-644-1900 or go to my Ph.D. weight loss.com. You got me riled up here.

I got to read this. I think we're missing this when it comes to judgment. So he gets to John 12 in verse 30, and it says this voice thundered, you know, about Jesus coming to this very hour, about him, his death. And he says, verse 31, now is the time for judgment on this world. And of all things he could equate with that, watch what he says. now the prince of this world will be driven out. Well, he's talking about the same being that James is talking about, who's using earthly wisdom,

and God is saying through James, you resist him, this selfish ambition. For when I am lifted up on the earth, I will draw all men to myself. That picture of the cross and the love of God, him reconciling the world to himself, that is the draw. the relentless love of God, despite what humans have done.

So then look, in John 16, he basically says the same thing. In verse, talking about the Holy Spirit coming. Now he went from his death drawing people. Now to the Holy Spirit being poured out. In verse 7, it says, unless I go away, the counselor or the Holy Spirit will not come to you, but if I go, I'll send him. When he comes, he will convict the Lord. world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness look and judgment in regard to sin because men

do not believe in me in regard to righteousness because i am going to the father where you can see me no longer now watch first 11 and in regard to judgment because the prince of this world now stands condemned. So my whole point is this individualistic view of everything that is about Christ, there's a temptation there for people who are believers to alienate themselves from the love of their neighbor, all in justifying it by their love for God. And I think that's where you come up to, we all have the different buildings we go to, and that's where we do our worship.

It's like we're protecting and hiding ourselves. Then we go out in the world and we're just trying to stay away. We're trying to stay away. And I'm reading this thinking, like, take 2 Corinthians 5. Paul's like, he's reconciling the world to himself. And you remember how he started that speech? He said, we used to view Jesus in a worldly manner, but we do so no longer. And we don't regard anyone from a worldly point of view.

because God through Jesus is reconciling the world to himself and has given us the ministry of reconciliation as though God we're making his appeal through us. We're there for Christ ambassadors. How can you be an ambassador without loving your neighbor, which is any person within earshot, in any building, at any place, anywhere, anytime, if they have ears? So that's my take of judgment, the law, how we're supposed to respond to that, faith, you know, without deeds, it's dead. I just think that is what he's saying.

There's a spiritual war going on. Which side are you on? That's really good. And I think that's why even his addressing, because, you know, he comes back and he's like, to his audience that he's been writing to after that harsh judgment that he, in warning he had for the rich people. But even that, Jay, if you think about it, I mean, James was doing that. So maybe people would turn it, turn it around.

around like and realize that I'm trusting in the wrong thing. Even a, even a harsh message sometimes when it's true is, is really done in love because you're trying to save people. I've said this many times before. I mean, you know, dad put me to the test. It was like, you can either change or you've got to go. You got to leave. Well, that seems harsh. But he did that because he loved me. He knew the path I was on and I was, you know, he knew I was the Luke 15. And so that was spoken. in love, but I didn't see it for two years before I came around. And so that's why you have to be where people are and you have to drop in those nuggets of whatever you can when you get the opportunity to do it when you got a prodigal kid because there may be, I know there's listeners

out there. You've got a prodigal grandson or granddaughter. You're just thinking, man, what can I do? Well, you love them. You keep looking on the horizon. And when they come back to the homie beacon, you meet them and you love them. And you welcome them home. You always. got to have a pathway home. And you can't do that when you are the person you're describing Jason that cuts people off. I always say you've got to have a door. The door we're talking about with judgment, the door is open if we're willing to walk through it in Christ. But if you don't, man, that's a sad, lonely place to be on the wrong side of the door. Yeah, I think just the common member in the church think they think that, oh, this is for preachers and teachers and influencers

or famous people to, you know, I had something happen recently. You know, big gym went on to be with the Lord, and, you know, I got heavily involved with the family and friends. And some people had a more difficult time because it's just like when, you know, our dad went on to be with the Lord. I mean, there's a few months, not just days of just, I don't know how to describe that feeling. You know, you're missing him.

It's like a new world. He's no longer here. I mean, it's a tough thing to go through. But I was trying to encourage some people because they actually gave me one of Big Jim's Bibles, which kind of made me emotional a little bit because you imagine him going through it. And I have this. He's no longer on the planet. And they're like, what do we do with this stuff?

And so they gave me one. So in an effort to encourage, you know, certain members, because I know, a few weeks passed by, and it's a struggle to do this. But I made a statement in a conversation I had. I said, you know, really what I realized was going through my dad and big gym is that doing Jesus stuff, that's how I put it, is salve to the soul, because you're still participating in that ministry. And the point, I'm not throwing these people under the bus, because I want to capture what I

think is the problem. Because these people that I was encouraging on a group text, they were what you would call common members. They're not preachers. They're not teachers. They're not, you know, they don't have this big platform. And they made the comment, which was all good, but it just said, well, we realized that you and Big Jim were doing the Jesus stuff.

But it's like when I read that, it bothered me because I thought, you can do this. What do you mean? Yeah, we all do Jesus. And it kind of made me think, I think that's the problem, is people just a common member, they think, well, I don't know enough verses, I don't know enough Bible, I hadn't had enough experience. Look, those are all lies from the evil side of the world. If you understood who Jesus is enough to respond and you have the ability to communicate, I mean, think of the guy that we have. on our podcast who has cerebral palsy and he's one of the most evangelistic people on the planet. Yeah.

He, you know, he could, his name is popped out of my head. Todd. Todd Lawler. Yeah, Todd Lawler. And which, I mean, I think that should be a lesson to everybody that this is a group thing. When you try to make it individualistic, I realize we all have roles. There's leadership. There's all this.

But Ephesians 4 makes the case that the whole point of leadership is to get the people equipped for works of service. Well, what is that? That's doing Jesus stuff in your life and with your neighbor and all these kinds of things. And so I really think we should rethink that and not just go to our little buildings and kind of do church. and then it not be lived out with a love your neighbor theme, which is obviously James's point. No, and I think that's the conversations that you can have and those moments, just like you just shared, with somebody to encourage. You brought up Todd after he was on our podcast.

I wound up giving him a little private tour of our Duck Commander, our tour we have there, which there's a normal way they do that. But a lot of times I'll take somebody through, and I give them all the stuff you'd never get because I lived it. Every room I lived, except for the first one, we're signed to Edward kids. And so, you know, we spent about an hour together. And Todd had gone through something difficult a few years ago. And he said, I started to text, I said, I wish you would have.

And then I was able to encourage him just in that. And if you take the time with people, whether there are people that are doing Jesus stuff or not doing Jesus stuff, and you try to get them there. It just, it takes effort to make that happen. But you're so right, Jay. So many people, you're so well positioned, not being a famous person, because the people aren't intimidated to be around you. Maybe people you work with.

I mean, I'll be at a thing, and I know you've seen this before, Jay. So there'll be a line of people to meet us. We'll be at an event somewhere. And, you know, and they get up there, and they're nervous. And they got about, use it about 15 seconds worth of material. and then they don't know what else to say. But I watch them when they're standing over in their own group waiting to come up there, they're talking and they're laughing.

And I thought, the people that are going to influence the people in that little group back there are each other. Way more than me. You know, I'm just doing what I do. But you do what you do because the Holy Spirit lives in every one of us. I love the thing you said about the Ministry of Reconciliation. That's all of us. That's not just the preachers and the people on the internet. know. So, howell, have you noticed that health insurance just keeps getting a lot more expensive

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I think it shows itself in, this may be a little tricky to talk about. But, you know, we have guests on our show that I don't agree with a lot of their theology or whatever. But you got these rock throwers who are like, ooh, they said something. I'm like, we're all on a journey here. We're trying to unite in Jesus. People are at different stages of growth, especially, you know, a new Christian. obviously he's not going to know everything. But then you've got a decision to make.

You can either throw some rocks and alienate them because they said something wrong, or you can love them and, you know, befriend them. And hopefully as they're growing, they'll understand some of these things that they're off about. But when you start burning the bridges at every turn, I just don't think that's the way to be. And I think that's the problem is we're functioning. more like a police force, which is then going to create arguments and make people mad. I mean, I notice what I'm guilty of most of all is people that I really disagree with. I try to find some common ground so we can continue the relationship.

Well, it usually ends the relationship as they say, I don't agree with you, and I don't want to associate with you, which happens more often than you think. And I think that's what James is getting at here, is you can. be that way. You're now going above as you're the judge of the law and how you relate to people. And if your default setting is alienation, that is the exact opposite of what God has called us to be, which is reconcilers, which is what he did in Jesus. Now, I realize there are exceptions to that. You know, if somebody's out there living a life of sin claiming to be in Jesus, well, that's a deal breaker, you know? I mean, there's some obvious.

things that are exceptions, but I think most of the times the stuff we're arguing about. Well, even if they are not living for Jesus, here's the thing, even if they're not living for Jesus, let's say that someone is completely opposed to what we believe about the fundamental truths about Jesus,

I'm still going to have a relationship. I mean, that has been the primary way that, I mean, most of the people that come into our life, let me take that back, this is actually true. 100% of the people that have come to Jesus that I've actually got to witness,

they weren't with Jesus before they came to him. It's like, I mean, so, and I think that what's happened is, and I don't, and even inside the Christian faith, I don't have to agree with you on everything. You know, when we did the episode with Frank Turrick, a lot of people

were talking about, well, you know, he disagrees with your eschatology. I'm like, okay, then I think he's wrong on it. I don't know what he believes that, but I mean, we can happen. I got news for you. So does about 90% of everybody else I've ever believed. I said that wrong

that I've ever talked to. You know, there's a disagreement. I'm like, open the discussion. I'm not going to like, I mean, I think that's the thing that I think now there is a point I probably wouldn't platform certain people if I thought what they really, what they were, but I mean, I think

having the conversation is not a bad thing. Getting out into the secular world, quote unquote, world and doing quote unquote secular things as actually not there's there's not a biblical precedent for dividing the secular and the sacred i mean that is one of the key fundamental truths about the kingdom of god coming with christ and being inaugurated with christ is that um i think hyper said that there's not one square inch of the entire universe that the sovereign lord does not cry mine so it's all his now we can go in and and and uh and we can tell stories and sing songs

and you can do country music or rock music or rap music to the glory of God, there's a way to do that or make a reality TV show or, you know, or duck hunting. I mean, think about Phil's business was duck hunting, but it was like it wasn't a professional ministry. This is a line I got from Nancy Peirce's husband, Rick Piercy. And we were having a conversation one time, and we were talking about this very topic. And he said that he was coaching soccer. And he said, he asked his kids that were playing soccer before they were on the field.

He said, I set them all down and I said, okay, what is more spiritual? Jesus down on the cross or are you guys playing soccer? And he said, without exception, they all said, Jesus down on the cross. And he's like, no, it's all his. He's like, that's the thing is when you separate it out and this is a benign, secular, neutral thing that we're doing. There are no neutral cultural

liturgies. That's what the church needs to understand. Everything is his, and what that means is it doesn't mean that you have to explicitly, in every circumstance, lay out the fullness of all the gospel. You can't do that every time.

Yeah, it's not a methodology. And this goes back to what we were talking about in Ecclesiastes, which I think is why it's so mischief. understood. I mean, the writer eventually says, these are gifts of God. God did this for you. Yeah. From pleasure to, you know, all the things we do. I mean, making a garden, going through the day, acquiring land, whatever all that is, which he's like, it's all meaningless. But then he says,

but these are gifts of God that he did for human beings. And that's why I said it's more a perspective change. Well, let me tell you how this plays out. There's a, I probably shouldn't say the restaurant. I mean, I'll change this a little bit because it's in my hometown. There's a restaurant that, I mean, it's the worst, like, hamburgers. Like, they just, like, they just, it's just gross. Like, everything about it is like, I can't.

Have you been there more than once? Oh, but, yeah, I've been there enough times to where I, it's not a one-time deal. Well, I think you need to take some responsibility for that. Well, it's not, well, here's the thing, though. It's not me. Someone will come in town and so, and they'll like, oh, it's going to eat so and so. And I'm like, I don't do it. And then they do it.

I'm like, don't do it. And then it gets there. You're like, okay, yeah. And they have a sign out front on their sign that says, Jesus is Lord. And I'm just like, no, don't say that. Because yes, he is Lord. But won't you just, why don't you put that into your hamburgers and your food? take that concept and don't put it on a sign, embody that in the way that you make hamburgers and french fries.

And actually, when people come into your store, they're like, man, this is awesome. The service here is great. Wow, look at the, you know what I mean? Like, that's what I'm talking about. Like, but we'll take the virtue. Oh, we got the phrase out there, so we're good. But meanwhile, we're doing subpar stuff down here that doesn't actually reflect that Jesus is Lord. This is the Lord of our hamburgers.

Which leads you not to pray for your, to thank God. for the meal, but to actually pray for the meal itself. Pray for safety. Yeah, Lord Jesus, help this meal, you know, be processed properly through my body because it does not taste right. Well, that's funny that you said that because I think I mentioned it. When we went to Jersey a couple weeks ago, we're out in the middle of nowhere, and we went to meet Jersey Joe's brother.

And so he took us to this little place, and he's like, oh, this is, in Jersey, Joe and his brother are Italians, and they can both cook. And so we were going to an Italian place. And I was like, well, I'm impressed with that because y'all are, you know, full, full board Italian. And we go to this place. And it's like the, it is like an old house. It's been there since 1958, I think. And the woman who cooks the food is small place, but she does everything.

Like when you order it, he said, it's going to take a while because she, she cooks it all up while we're sitting out here. And she comes out. He says she might come out, you know, depending on how busy it is. what she does and she was her name was angel but she was salty like she was she was dropping some four-letter words and you know and all this stuff and then they told her who i was and she couldn't believe it you know because she had heard of the show and then she invited me back to her kitchen to meet the people back there she said i got one of your biggest fans back here in the kitchen and then and he was salty as well and it was so funny because then we got to talk him and then all of a sudden it's like

we start talking about jesus and actually jursy Joe brought it up because he's working on his brother too. But we had this Jesus conversation. And, you know, it would have been easy for me to be offended by this person or just uncomfortable, but I wasn't because it was the first time I was meeting her. Because she knew of our family, had an opportunity to go a little bit deeper than normally would. To your point, Zach, some of the best food I've ever had in my life.

And it was easy to see that she excelled in doing that because she was this, second generation. Her mom had run that restaurant until she died cooking. She had been there until she was 95 years old. And so she said, the only reason I'm still here is because this is the one thing I can do well. But then we opened up a spiritual lane for her to talk about. And so to your point, I think anybody that tries to do something the best they can do has something in them that if Jesus can fill that spot with the Holy Spirit, that person is going to be dynamic. And that's exactly what your mom prophesied about our dad. And she was exactly right.

And he became the best and most well-known Duck Hunter in the world. And because of that, he had an opportunity to build now what we are still doing in sharing with people. Yeah, I think we've just missed this because people that say, well, I just don't have the gift or, you know, evangelism. we categorize, you know, sharing Jesus is like something we have to organize and go do. But when you look at who Jesus is and what he did when he was on the planet, it's just one conversation with just a few people or maybe just one individual over and over and over and over. And not all of them went well for the other person. You know, they didn't all respond.

I mean, when he took on leadership, corrupt leaders and some of these Jewish leaders, But I even think that where he goes next in his letter, after he says the judge is standing at the door, which I know we didn't get into the end times thing, we'll have to do that next time because we're almost out of time. So I want to just make one subtle point about the next paragraph that goes in with what we've been saying. He then says, brothers, as an example of patience in the face of suffering, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord. and as you know we consider blessed those who have persevered. You have heard of Job's perseverance and have seen what the Lord finally brought. The Lord is full of compassion and mercy.

And I just want to make the point. You see this same concept that I introduced. What happened in the book of Job? You have the evil one and the Lord. That's where it started. And it's just like when it comes to judgment, what Jesus did on the cross and the resurrection by defeating the evil allows us to flourish as newborn creators in Christ that image him.

And that's what we're supposed to be doing. What else happened in that story? You had a conversation that happened with Job and three of his so-called friends. It just naturally happened in the face of suffering. Now, did it go well for the three friends? No, because they were spewing terrible advice. Worst support group. They were the rock throwers.

They were the grumblers and the slanders throughout the whole conversation. And Job threw that whole thing and having uncomfortable conversations. He glorified God and he didn't sin. So that doesn't mean, you know, if you've never tried speaking about Jesus to your neighbor or your son or daughter

or cousin or uncle or fellow worker, just try it. That's what I tell people. They're like, well, I don't have that gift? I was like, have you ever tried it? And they usually say no. I was like, get the, bring the conversation up. And if you don't know how to respond, say you don't know.

If they ask you a question, you don't know. But if he's your Lord, he's your Lord. And this is what we're supposed to be doing based on everything we've discussed here. But God is reconciling the world to himself. And you're part of a body that can help you when, you know, questions do come up, whatever. But I'm just saying, you know, you're just saying, you see this in every story that you come up with, even in that story. It was, it turned into 30 chapters about a conversation between three friends who didn't believe there was a living

God and a guy who did. So what the whole book's about. No, you're right. And it's, it's interesting because they thought they knew everything. But what was funny was they were so ignorant that they didn't, which is what God said. When he shut, when they show up, Jay said, end of chapter two and Job. It says they sat down with Job and he's sitting there. He's got, now he's got the sores. And I mean, I'm sure he was a site. And he's sitting there on the ashes and they sat with him and nobody said a word for a week. And I thought to myself, that's what they should have just never spoken. They'd have been way better off. Just don't say anything. So they started out trying to do the right thing. They were there in presence. But when they started

is speaking. That's why it all went downhill. But the reason why is because Job said some really tough things when he starts in Job 3. I mean, he is questioning everything about himself. He says, I wish I'd never even been born to have to go through this. And it's just a reminder that we are going to go through difficult things. We'll get into that a lot more next time. I do want to read a verse as we close, Jay's, because you had gone to Ecclesiastes. And I want to read Proverbs 11, because it's the exact same thing that Solomon was dealing with in Ecclesiastes. Here's what he said in Proverbs 11. The Lord detest, dishonest scales, but accurate weights find favor with him.

When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom. The integrity of the upright guides them, but the unfaithful are destroyed by their duplicity. Wealth is worthless in the day of wrath, but righteousness delivers from day. death. And I just love those words of accuracy, humility, integrity, righteousness. That's the same theme that James has here in this text. And no doubt. Even Solomon pointed to it way back then. Well, why don't we, yeah, next time, why don't we, because I know people are curious about what does he mean when it says, the Lord is coming in 5'7 and then the judge is standing at the door. Yeah. We'll give that famous line, the preacher man says it's the end of time. We'll go through.

that. I think you'll like where we go, but that's to be seen. There's your tease. We'll see you next time on Unashame. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast.

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