Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1425 | Jase’s Bizarre Michael Jackson Encounter Leaves Matthew West Speechless

Episode Date: September 22, 2026

Matthew West looks back on the career advice that told him to be more of a “rock star,” a mold he knew he didn’t want to fit. He recounts touring with Willie Robertson, quickly realizing who the real celebrity was, and finding humor in some deeply humbling moments along the way. Matthew opens up to Jase, Al, and Zach about his brother’s long battle with addiction, the prayers that seem to go unanswered, and why his song and devotional book Don’t Stop Praying grew out of his own need for a deeper prayer life. The guys dig into surrender, grace, and Matthew’s new Jesus Is King album, reflecting on what it means to draw near to God instead of trying to control everything yourself. In this episode: Romans 8:26-27; James 4:8 Want to watch Unashamed ad-free? Only on EKKL! Get 20% off with code GOUNASHAMED, and watch faith- and family-friendly movies, podcasts, and more: https://ekkl.com/ “Unashamed” Episode 1425 is sponsored by: Download the FREE Upside App and use promo code Unashamed to get an extra 25 cents back for every gallon on your first tank of gas https://preborn.com/unashamed - Visit the PreBorn! website or dial #250 and use keyword BABY to donate today. https://helixsleep.com/unashamed - Get 27% off sitewide and make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you! Taking care of your health just got easier - start here with Zocdoc: https://zocdoc.com/UNASHAMED #sponsored http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/ - Sign up now for free, and join the Unashamed hosts every Friday for Unashamed Academy Powered by Hillsdale College Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! https://open.spotify.com/show/3LY8eJ4ZBZHmsImGoDNK2l Listen to Not Yet Now with Zach Dasher on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or anywhere you get podcasts. Chapters 00:00 Matthew West Joins Unashamed 04:08 Jase’s Michael Jackson Story 08:02 Jase Pitches “Eager Sunday” 12:26 Matthew West Wins Over a Crowd 17:41 Why I Reject the “Rock Star” Image 24:16 Willie Humbles Matthew  28:38 Matthew’s Songwriting Career 36:10 When Prayer Goes Unanswered 42:17 How Prayer Changed Jase’s Life 47:03 Matthew West on “Jesus Is King” 55:23 Jase Pitches a Song - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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You're richer than you think. I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. You know it's going to be good when you can't like, you can't rain into conversation and start the conversation. This is the Nashville edition. And anytime we're in Nashville, we run into people that we love and have always

wanted to meet and have a conversation with. And Matthew West is one of those. I think we've all met you at some point in some green room, some place or an event. But we've never had a proper conversation. Well, I'm a fan. I'm a fan of your podcast. And I've been wanting to be on this show ever since I learned the name of the podcast. because I was like, okay, we got something in common.

I had a song called Unashamed that came out. And it is a good song. And I was like, oh, man, I got to get on the Unashamed podcast. We were going to sue you. You were going to sue me? Because you took the name on the show. We thought you got that from our podcast. I wondered when I heard from your attorney, Bart Durham.

I was like, oh, I'm in trouble. Well, that would have been cool if we could have used that as like the intro to the show. How do we not connect on that? It's actually too tight. He was, if it costs any money, it's ever going to have. I was going to charge you big bucks for it for sure. Yeah, that's what it was. He just raised children who are musicians, and then he just uses all their stuff.

Oh, is that what it was? He raised kids just to get the music. He's got a little musical sweatshop in the house. They live here, and so I would have been like that. I watched the Michael movie, Michael Jackson. Oh, yeah, yeah. And I want to be that dad. Oh, no, you don't want to be that dad.

Yeah, I just get filthy rich. The dad got sued, didn't he? I don't want to go that far. I just want to get rich, and then I'll back out. You guys take it now. You got it from here. Well, they call, like, in the industry, though, call that like a momager, you know, or the mom's just like two overbearing. So a dadager or something

like that that's just like, you know, pulling all the strings behind the scenes. Yeah, I'll walk away when I feel financially secure. I walk away. Take care of your dad. Go play a show. Well, and this is the first time since we're doing the podcast down in this area. And the rooftop that where our building is looks just like the one you, you recorded the unashamed video. Yeah, because it was close to the stadium because that was in the back. Yeah, right down town. But it looked like one. these little buildings with the little rooftop. That's what it was.

That's what we did. We shot the video. We thought what would be a cool visual for like shouting from the rooftops, what you believe in a bold statement of faith. And we thought, well, let's keep it simple, stupid. Like, let's actually go to a rooftop. Yeah. And so it was actually really cool because there's all these, I mean, Nashville, I mean,

you're coming and seeing the new Nashville, which is just blown up and it's bars and clubs everywhere. And so it was really fun to sing that song on the rooftop of a building looking down on Broadway while Lord knows what's going on down there and saying, I'm unashamed with the gospel of Jesus Christ. So anyways, but in all seriousness, ever since I knew the name of your podcast, and I was like, oh, this would be a fun conversation, talk about faith. And so I'm excited to be here, man. Oh, yeah. I'm, I feel I'm behind because I, first thing I'm going to do after this podcast is go pull that up and listen to it. There you go. It's an awesome.

I didn't realize there was a movie about Michael Jackson that was out. And why would you go? I didn't go to I rented it. I don't go to the movies during the answer. I just rented it. So now that we've called us... So he's getting all caught up on current events. Well, he lives under a rock. Do you know who Michael Jackson is? Yeah. I do. I went to a Michael

Jackson concert. I talked about it on a podcast somewhere. He's judging me for watching the movie. Yeah, you went to the show. No, well, I went to a show, but it was the Spanish version of Michael Jackson. I was in Mexico. Oh, I was ready. Were you there? Yeah.

What do you mean? What do you mean? like a cover band? This guy we said, I said, Michael Jackson, I've heard of him. We're in Mexico

and they're like, we're doing a concert and I'm like, I thought he was dead. Was it Miguel Jackson? Well, they leaned into that. Like,

he's not dead. He moved to Mexico. So I was like halfway both. Even this guy comes out. With Tupac. He was a band. And Elvis was the magic. I'm just telling you,

this guy. I was Michael Jackson, but he spoke Spanish. And he did all Michael Jackson songs. All the songs, he moved like, Al, did he not? He was very good. He was there too. I was there too. We were staying at one of these resorts, you know, in Mexico.

We went for golf, but, you know, the women want to go at night. We got to go eat. We got to go to the show. And they had one of these Michael Jackson lookalikes from Mexico. Was he singing in Spanish, though? Oh, yeah, yeah, he's sung in Spanish. but that was the only thing that was like, but his voice. It was all legit.

I mean, Michael Jackson, you could argue. He was quite an entertainer and a singer. I mean, this guy had all the moves. People say he's still alive. If Elvis Presley showed up afterwards, then I'd be like, wait a minute, we need to go to Mexico see what's going on. I mean, I was like not 100% sure that was not Michael Jackson. It was not Michael.

There's been a bunch of videos posted. There's some guy in South America that they've spotted on a riding a public bus that literally looks like he has the same, like, plastic surgery. It literally looks like Michael Jackson. So a lot of people believe, just like they believe that that preacher is Elvis Presley. Have you seen that? There's like a small town preacher who, like, looks like an older version, like an older version of Elvis Presley.

And he sings in the church and he sounds like Elvis Presley. I forget the guy's name, but I've seen these videos, and it's like, it's kind of creep. I don't know if I'm a believer yet. Like, you're kind of on the fence on. Well, now that you've told me Michael's alive and well and singing in Spanish. He just made to Mexico. I don't know what to believe anymore. I know Jesus is alive.

I do know that. That's a fact. That's all I know. The rest of I don't know about. There is a biblical being here about us wanting to worship and put people on a pedestal, you know. And believe they never die to you. Exactly. We're looking for immortality.

Well, that's what I said about all movies. You think they use all godly principles. It's like at the end of horror movies, you think he's dead. Oh, he comes back. Got that out of the Bible. Because they always works. Then they put the end. Is it?

Is it? He's back. You know, now after the credits, you know. We got the sequel. Yeah. Well, now it's all the Marvel movies and the movie's over, but nobody leaves because you got away because somewhere in the credits, there'll be something. Like an Easter egg.

They lead you to the next movie. That's the way it's... Well, and they all do supernatural trick. You know, Superman, they're flying, defying gravity. It's all... They want the godly principles. Well, even the term Easter egg that we just... Yeah.

The highlight of... Don't bring that out. There you go. Speaking of rabbit holes. Oh, we had a whole rabbit hole. It's not Easter. It's eager. Yeah, we changed the holiday.

We had probably... I bet Jace devoted every bit of 16 podcasts. this topic. To renaming Easter egg? Yeah. There was a whole Easter egg. Eager egg. Because of Romans 8 that when we're talking about the resurrection,

I shouldn't write it up. The word is translated, We eagerly await the redemption of our bodies. And the creation itself eagerly awaits for the selves of God. And I was like, why are we calling this Easter off some pagan deal? They said the comments were like, Jesus is bashing Easter. Yeah, I'm bashing Easter. Call it eager.

I have scriptural support of the English word. I'm with you. And Romans 8. So I have since that day we did the podcast, I call it eager. Eager Sunday? Eager Sunday. Because I'm eager. Because Jesus is my younger brother and it was a good idea.

I preached this last Easter at our church and I changed it to Eager Sunday. Yeah. I did it. And how did it go over? I think they don't seem to like it. No, I think people, once you read the. Romans 8, you'll be like, and now that you're, we have one of the greatest songwriters here, and I'm going to give you a story on this. And then I need to go write a song? Yeah.

Well, we're going to watch it right here on this podcast. I'm trying to win the world to make, make this transition, and now I have the man to do it. Because I'm going to tell you a story, because we were all trying to remember how many times we've seen each other where it was. But, and our wives are good friends. Yes, they really like it. Yes. She said, no matter. where I go, she's like, I'm with the wives or husbands of really famous people. She's like, Matthew West, I see his wife everywhere. We went to the Chris Tomlin Good Friday service. That's the last time they saw each other.

Well, the first person she saw was your wife. And she's like, well, here we are again. Here we are. And she rattled off like seven times in the past two years that she's been somewhere. Yeah. And they've hooked up. So they're, and they love each other. thinks the world of your wife for sure. She's not so sure about you, but I'm just kidding.

Well, she's like, and I never see Carrie Underwood, but Mike Fisher, see him everywhere. All the time. Because it's like every event, it's like I'm with the wives and the husbands because they're all doing whatever they're doing, and here we are. So you need me to write an eager song. Yeah. Should I do it in Spanish like Miguel Jackson? Well, I think we should always, we should always have a Spanish version, which I think is an untapped market for you. Do you speak Spanish flu? Does anybody have? I know two words. I know Patoos, of course. Ducks. That's ducks.

Ducks. Because when I went to Mexico, I said, Patos, in a question, kind of phrase. And everybody laughed at me because at first people just looked at me. But then we had one guy, he pointed. To the ducks. Yeah, we went down there and there was a little lake with ducks on it. And we wound up hunting there. So I'm like, yeah, what are you thinking of me now?

So you learned. Yeah, so that word came in handy. And the other one I used. a lot because I'll say, especially when I'm dealing with my kids, I'll say, let me put this in Spanish for you. No. I do want to remind everybody that if you don't like the ads in this podcast, you can get it ad free. All you got to do is go to ECHL.com, use our code unashamed. It's EKKKL.com. Use the code unashamed. You get 20% off a one-year subscription. You get this podcast, along with a lot of others. you also get family-friendly films, some series.

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I regret not paying attention in my high school Spanish class. But I remember I got up in front of this school of hundreds of little kids in this inner city school and I stood up there and I just had this sudden earth to like speak their language. So I said, I thought, well, if I say the one sentence I know

with authority, like something good will happen. And so I stood up in front of the crowd. And before I sang, I just said, Donde esther, El Banyo. And I just said it with great authority. And all the kids looked at me, like, strangely. And then they all just pointed to the bathroom and started laughing. And we built like a connection. But that was the one sentence I knew. Yeah. So now I know where the men's room is at that school. That was the one. sentence I could think of, you know, at least the one sentence that didn't start with two madre. See, I did. The only phrase I know is Puedo-Arbanio, porfavor, because that, when I took Spanish in high school, you had to ask and go to the restroom in Spanish.

Oh, that's if you can go? That's just, can I say? May I use the restroom or may use the bathroom? And what did I say? Where is the bathroom? But I said it right, right? I don't know. I caught the manual. I don't try to learn the language. I have those two words. I use charades. And they figured out more quickly than I could figure out the language, you know, I'm like, you know, and they're like, oh, he's got to go the bathroom. Wait, what was, ooh? That's, you got to go to that. That's universal. That's how you wind up at a Michael Jackson concert. That's universal for Montezuma's revenge. So now I want this

eager day to catch hold because Missy said, well, I went, she went on a cruise without me with some conference and you sang while she was there. Yes. I forgot exactly. In, What the other group was with you guys, King and Country on this cruise. Because my wife was on there too. Because she said, let me tell you, if you ever have a song idea, he's your man. This is yesterday, she's telling me. Really? And I'm like, why?

She said, he did something when he did his concert that I have never forgotten and I found it fascinating. Did I make up a song? You made up a song. And do you remember what it was? Well, if it was on a cruise ship, it was probably about food. It was about food. I feel like we're back with a magician.

I think I did a song about I'm eating my way through the cruise ship. And what's funny is, so this started years ago when I first started making music, I would pick up a guitar like at Christmas time around my family and I would just make up songs to make fun of my brothers. And my dad was like, hey, that's actually really funny. Like if you ever do a show, you should do that. So then my first concerts were I would book myself to play at like college campuses. And nobody, I played two.

200 college campuses around the country. And trying to get a crowd at these college campuses was challenging. Were you doing Christian music at this time? I was, yeah, it was, my music was always faith-driven, but for some reason these secular colleges would bring me in just because I would play a cover song, like Hootie in the Blowfish or something. So they'd bring me in, and it was a doorway for me to share my faith. But what they didn't tell me is that they were going to put me at University of South

Dakota in the cafeteria at lunchtime. So it wasn't like a captive audience. You got to grab them in. So I'm standing there while the kids. are going through the line and they're throwing tater tots at me nobody's listening so i would start making up a song and like goofing around with the the guy in the red sweatshirt who's throwing tater tots at me all of his buddies would start laughing then they would kind of gather and it started to like form a crowd so at a lot of my shows just i'll just stand up there and it's kind of like a highwire

act where you just you just improv something off the spot and sometimes the worse it is the better it is you know what I mean. Oh, no, this was... She liked it, huh? Well, I'm giving me this story. It was about molten, because somebody hollered out chocolate cake. Y'all are having chocolate cake with molten lava. Yes, yes.

And it's like, and the reason I know this, because after she told me this story, I was like, she's like, there's got to be somebody had to have filmed that. And sure enough. Was it on YouTube? It was on YouTube. Terrible quality. Like somebody in the... the audience on their phone that's blurry half the time, filmed it.

Oh my gosh. What impressed me, though, after I watched it, is how you came up with all that so quick because you started off. It kind of reminded me like you're the Christian version of Adam Sandler, inventing a song. That's what it is. Because it's even your manner is, it was funny. Everybody was laughing. I was like, he has won this crap over.

And the words, and look, then all of a sudden the song, when you do this, what do you call it when you have the verses and then you do the... Like the chorus? Like the bridge? Yeah, like the bridge. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The bridge, all of a sudden, you start sensing the Titanic song. And it was those lyrics of that.

But he's singing so passion at the end of the day, it morphed into a love affair with you and chocolate cake in the multi-lava. And no matter what happens, our desires are going to be met. It's the last thing that goes down. And the place erupted. The guy's phone is shaking. I was like, he just won the world. So stupid.

So stupid, man. I'll tell you what, I've never been good at being like the rock star guy. Like, in fact, years ago when I would, I remember a record label came out to like watch me play a show. And I was playing for all these like high school kids. And so in the middle of my show, I did what I do, which is just make up a goofy song and totally like make a fool of myself and that record label their biggest critique of my show was like man that's corny like you need to be like more of a rock star and i knew i knew right then

and there that that wasn't going to be my record label because i was like man i want to be who i am and for me humor has always been like i've always felt like humor is a great segue to get to the heart of the matter so like even um just a few nights ago we played in east tennessee this big festival and it was a city festival that brought in Christian music, which was so cool. But I was joking with the crowd, because this was kind of like Morgan Wallen territory. Oh, yeah.

And I was like, man, you guys could have had any country artists here tonight. You could have had the other M.W. Morgan Wallen. A few people cheered. And I was like, maybe I should do a Morgan Wallen song. And I don't know why I did this, but I just started singing, Last night we let the Bible talk. And the crowd just looked at me, and I started riffing on his song.

And I was like, get it? Because I said, it's about a small group Bible study. And the crowd was just kind of like, that wasn't very funny. I said, I don't care if you don't think that's funny. I think that's funny. So that's going to be my new song is turning Morgan Wallin songs into Christian songs. That's awesome. Yeah.

There you go. So I'll work on an eager song. I'll do a Spanish version and an English version just so we can cover the whole world. I think it would go viral. And look, I don't mind it being a little humorous. Okay. Yeah. Even though, because it's pointing you to the greatest thing that ever happened, the resurrection.

But that's so, it's interesting because you talked about the podcast. Whenever we first began the podcast, in fact, we just unearthed some lost episodes. How did they get lost? Well, because, well, Jason wasn't originally a part of it, and dad had been approached. Right. I hid them as well, yeah, had been approached about doing this podcast. Well, dad's a pod. Pod.

Do we get in a pod? He was like, cast. Casting. Cast a ride. Do we cast a podcast? What is this? I'm not familiar with this term. And so then Zach changes it to internet Bible study.

And he said, oh, yeah, I'm in for that. And so we started out. It was just going to be dad. And I was just like helping out. I wasn't even going to be a part of it the full time. You were just filler. Yeah, I was just filler. I was like, somebody has to keep down the rails.

But dad was interesting. And then we had another guy that got worked for dad. And so there was like these 12 episodes, which now they found and remastered. Jace came on as a guest. And then he never left. And we changed the whole podcast. But it wasn't even called unashamed. And, but one thing is, it was called fishnet.

Net faith. But they were really good. The reason why we made a transition, because we were, with our contract, we had to do 52 of them. And then, and then so we were, after the 12th one, I'm like, Phil's got, I mean, he's great, but he is going, he couldn't understand that, like, he's like, I have to give the full gospel, the death, the bear on the resurrection. In every episode. And he could, and he said, no, we got to get that. We got to get in there. I love that.

But we're like, coming back at like once a week. You know, you never know. You never know. So it was like this. This is our chance is. What if they're in the one time? Yeah. So we wind up changing it and changed the tone of shame.

But when you talked about humor is what made me think. I mean, Jason and I figured out pretty early on, because dad just wanted to preach, you know, and he'd be like, okay, Saturday Night Live's over. It's time to get to serious stuff. Yeah. Because that was him. He was ready to get there. But we realized that, you know, we're a good,

storytellers and you know we have a humor it was a big part of the show and so we started doing what we call the cold opens which we'd have just what was going on in our lives and sometimes it'd be hunting but it'd be something funny i love that yeah somebody had our life was we were talking about earlier was so dramatically bad when we were kids that at some point we just kind of started laughing about it and i mean it wasn't funny but now we'll tell those stories back then and we'll all sit around and laugh, you know, including my mom. She's just like, we were just absolutely terrible. And I think there's some healing in that somewhere.

100%. I think you've got to get to that point. I feel like God's redemption in our lives gives us, like you always think about like the term, like forgive and forget or, you know what I mean? Like the idea that like the past behind us, you know, we don't have to remember it. But I've always felt like the Lord's shown me that like what his redemption in our lives gives us is a perspective. Like we see what's behind us in a red, through a redemptive lens. And so it allows us to heal, maybe even laugh sometimes about the dysfunction or the brokenness and things like that. And

I think it pulls people in for you guys to talk as real as you've been about your story from the television show to the podcast. Like people want to hear it's like people want to hear me too. They want to know I'm not the only one that's got messy parts of my life. But yeah, the humor and heart part, you guys have done that. That's what I think so many people loved about the show you're laughing all the way through and then by the end like you're bringing it home and you're praying together with the viewers as you're praying as a family that's powerful I've been out across the fruited plains with Lisa and doing a lot of speaking on behalf of the unborn because an unexpected pregnancy leaves a woman wondering what to do next and so whether it's

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That's preborn.com slash unashame. Yeah, and then you tell us before we started that you had done some, you and your wife had done some events with Willie and Corey. Yeah. I'll tell you what. I never felt like, okay, so I'm a singer.

And Christian music, like, there's not as much face recognition. You know, you're not on, you know, every magazine or things like that. So I'll get recognized, like, when the guy at the airport checks my license or sometimes people will come up to me. But going into a waffle house

at 1 a.m. with Willie and Corey, I literally thought I was holding the cape of Elvis Presby. That is our core demographic. I'm telling you. Waffle House. Warf house 1 a.m. It shows you why if you look like this, you would be recognized.

If you go to the Waffle House after making a show like Duck Dynasty, that's your target audience. Because people used to look like that to hide from the law. Which is partly true of our story. But we did a tour together. My wife and I and Willie and Corey, somebody came to us with this idea of like, what if the four of you went on tour together and it was targeted towards couples?

Like helping married couples really choose to put Jesus at the center of your marriage. And we had such a blast. So I did a little concert and then we'd do a Q&A with our wives on stage. And it was so much fun. But Willie, I mean, what scarred me for life was he gave me. me a gift and it was a it was a Willie Robertson Lufa yeah and I thought

now that's like merchandising on a whole new level and I was like you know I can't take this show I'm not washing with this number one I'm not a lufa guy it's probably used that was probably the worst part of it I hate to tell you this but the question is at what point of this 12 tour did you realize that he's moving

you to a backup singer oh yeah it was it was one show in when I realized well it was the trip to Waffle House when I realized I'm not the main attraction. I'm the man before the man. This is this is our brother who every time we got on a private plane said, you know that if this plane goes down, it's going to be Willie Robertson was killed in a plane crash along with five others. You're one of the others. You're one of the others. Okay. Just say you know that's how I realized I was on this tour. And it reminds me of, I was doing this event and Tim Tebow was speaking after I was singing.

and this was the best introduction I've ever gotten my whole career. I'm standing backstage. The emcee goes out. He goes, ladies and gentlemen, and just a minute, the man you've all been waiting for. But first,

but first, here's Matthew West. And I had to go out there. But did you address it? No, I just was, I walked out there feeling about two feet tall. And then afterwards, I go back and Tim's standing backstage. And we've known each other for a long time.

and he gives me one of his big bear hugs. And I was like, I'm the man before the man you've all been waiting for. But I love that. It's like the Lord gives you little daily. If you ever get too high and mighty, there's something like that that goes, oh yeah, all I am is the man before the man.

I would love to sing you create a song in that moment. I should have. But first. But first. But you're interesting because you are on the stage, but I'm learning that you're like also behind the scenes of a ton of stuff too. Like we had Anne Wilson on. Yeah.

And she's the best. And she's the best. And she's the best. And you're kind of involved in this emergence of kind of, I guess I'm crossing the secular sacred divide, which is really. It shocked me when she brought your name up. Really? I was like, Matthew, I thought she was a country music singer.

Yeah. Well, when she was like, so I've had a, I've been in Nashville for a long time. And I started my career behind the scenes as a songwriter, you know, on music row, everyday songwriter, just with all the good old boys on music row, some of the hardest working and most gifted musicians and lyric writers that you would never know to meet them, right? But they're there every day. And that's how I cut my teeth. I was assigned a published songwriting. And so nobody wanted to sign me to a record deal. They didn't think I was good enough. And so I just spent everyday writing songs for other artists. And I had songs recorded by some

country artists and mostly in Christian music too. And so I was starting to have some success in that. I still really felt like God had a calling on my life to be out there singing my own songs, too. And when I finally got a record deal four years later, I had fallen in love with that craft of writing and being in a different seat at the table, like pouring into other young artists. And so I just kept both of those paths going at the same time. And so I'm making my own records, I'm touring. But then when I'm off the road, my favorite room to be in, no offense to today, is the songwriting room. Like that is a special, special place for me that I crave.

Like, I get in a bad mood if I hadn't written a song in a day. That's how I know it's like, it's just in me. So to this day, I get the chance to make my own music, write my own books, and do things like that. But the Lord's opened the door for me to like help champion other young artists. So a record label called me and said, we just signed this young artist. She's, I think she was 17 at the time. Would you write with her?

She needs to find her big song or whatever. And I would get that call often. And we sat down and it was Anne Wilson. and we wrote a song called My Jesus. And then I got to know her family and we became friends and her testimony, as you guys know, is so powerful, the tragedy that she's endured it in her life.

And her family came to me and said, hey, our daughter needs a manager. We want you to do it. And I was like, well, that's one hat that I don't wear. And they said, well, we think you can and we trust you. And imagine being a parent of a young kid who's got a record deal

and there's Christian music or any other genre. There's a whole lot of people that will be all too happy to take advantage of you. And so trust was a big thing. And I said, let me do this. I'll set you up to meet with every other manager in town. And so I set them up with all these meetings. And I said, how did it go?

They said, it was great. We want you. I said, well, go to this one. How was it? It was great. We want you. And so I started to realize, okay, maybe this is a way that the Lord wants to use my years of experience

to help champion young artists. So one, they don't get taken advantage of. And two, you know, I can help pour into them. especially an artist that has a ministry drive. Anne could make any kind of music she wants, but she wants to tell people about Jesus. And she does it with the country sound, which is really cool.

So that's been a part of my story of recent years where we've grown our management company and when young artists are coming up and they feel a calling on their life, we can rally around them and help them tell their story to the world. It's just another version of discipleship, really. It really is. I mean, that's what you're doing.

And taking the talent of an art form and then infusing what the Lord has taught you to go through the process. I mean, it's funny you said that being excited. We're like that to prepare for this or go and present in front of a group of people. That's like me. I crave that. If I've gone too long without being in the Word and developing something or chasing one of the Jason's crazy rabbit holes,

then I'm missing something in my life. So you wrote this book as part of the new album. don't stop praying. Yeah. So my mom called me years ago, and she said that I was going to be, she said, the Lord put, you know, I know you guys know what it's like

to have praying parents, you know, have prayer warriors in your life. And my mom and my dad are that for me. They actually live with me in Nashville. My dad has been a pastor for, he pastor at the same church in Illinois for 40 years. And now he helps run a nonprofit ministry with me that has a prayer network across the country.

And our whole desire is like, what happens after the goofy song about chocolate cake or that concert when that concert that mountain top experience is over you know i think a lot of times the more successful you get in music the less contact you actually have with people so our desire was to kind of break that barrier down and like learn how to do life with people and continue to pour into them with devotional content and things like that but my mom called me years ago and she's like i think the lord's put it on my heart that you're not just going to be writing songs someday you're going to be writing books and And of course, I laughed and reminded her what my great point average was.

And it was kind of one of those. I'm not qualified for that. But all these years later, I've had the chance to take some of the messages of my songs and dive deeper and really point to scripture at every turn. Because every song I write, now that I look at it, it's really like a three-minute version of one of my dad's sermons that I've heard. And I take my lyrics to my dad, too, to make sure that theologically they line up. Because I think that's a great responsibility for Christian music makers to make

that, you know, we're lining up with scripture. And so the Don't Stop Praying book was, I had a song called Don't Stop Praying, and it really turned into this cool movement during a really pivotal time in our country, which was the crazy election season. And we had thousands of people putting Don't Stop Praying yard signs in their front yard amidst all the election yard signs. And it was just such a cool thing. So this was written out of my own desire to just kind of go deeper in my prayer life. If I'm being totally honest with you guys, one of the biggest struggles in my life, I felt like the Lord showed it to me in this way, was that I had gotten really good at talking about Jesus and had forgotten about the most important part, which was talking to him.

And when you get better at talking about Jesus than talking to him, that's dangerous territory for a believer if you've been a Christian for any amount of time. And so like my songs, the books come out of like, these are messages that I needed. And I needed, I felt convicted to go deeper in my prayer life, make sure that I'm taking care of first things first. And so I put it down as a 40-day prayer devotional that was going to be my own roadmap. And it wound up being a journey back, a journey back to the hour that I first believed and a new, renewed sense of dependence on God. So, Jace, you guys aren't experiencing the fall weather yet. I know it's really hot down there. But up here in the mountains, it's starting to change a little bit. And I can't wait. Because that kind

of weather makes you want to get comfortable and stay there. And that's exactly what my helix mattress is good at. Jill and I took the Helix two-minute sleep quiz and matched us with what's called the Midnight Lux mattress because we're both side sleepers. So it's kind of like a middle ground, not too firm, not too soft. It has just the right fit for us. We've been sleeping on Helix for years now, and it's made a huge difference in the quality of our sleep. Heelix gives you 120 nights to try it risk-free. But once you get used to that level, comfort, trust me, you're not going to want to go back. Oh, Helix has become our go-to mattress. As much as we travel, you really appreciate what you have when you don't have it. And I can't think of a better bed.

I agree. I sleep better overall on our Helix. But the biggest difference for me has been just waking up with a lot less discomfort in my hips, my shoulders. As you get older, that stuff starts hurting more. Other than my family, my Helix is what I miss most about home when I travel. So go to helix.com slash Unashamed for 27% off, sitewide, exclusively for our listeners. That's helixlept.com slash unashamed for 27% off sitewide. Helixleep.com slash unashamed. Yeah, when I read that you said that, I immediately went to Romans 8, 26, and 27, when, you know, Paul says, we commune with the Holy Spirit in those moments that we can't

really express sometimes what we're trying to express. But if you don't have the moments where you have the expression, then you're not allowing the Holy Spirit to do what he can do for you. You can't intercede with the groans that words can't express it. If you're not even going, if you're not making space for that. That's what I thought about. Yeah, when you said. Back to Romans 8.

Yeah. That's where Jay started. Well, and why I'm going back there, I'm feeling a song coming. This is a songwriting. No, it is, man. And that's one of the chapters in the book is talking about, like, how do you pray when you don't know what to pray?

Yeah. And, you know, I have a brother who's battled addiction for a long time, and the song, Don't Stop Praying, was inspired by just this. just defeat this feeling of like, man, I've prayed for this person for so long, prayed that the rock bottom would be hit so the redemption could begin. And what happens when you don't see the answer to that prayer? What does it look like to persevere in prayer too? And my mom and dad have demonstrated what that looks like.

There's a line in the song that says when you wonder if you can bow your head one more time, do it one more time. And so what does it look like to daily, with the prayers that we haven't seen answered or with the words we don't know how to pray, how do we come to God, and how do we know, how do we remind ourselves that we can always, we're always invited into his presence, whether we have the words or whether we even want to pray. Sometimes my prayer is, Lord, help me increase my desire to talk to you today.

Help me create space. And that's an honest prayer, but that's a real one that I think a lot of us pray. There's a Eugene Peterson quote. I think he got it from Friedrich Nietzsche, but it's a long obedience in the same direction or something like that. But I think I've written down prayers in the past. and then found them like years later. And sometimes when you're praying out loud

and you're not seeing them answered, but when you, if you write it down and you catch it two years later, you're like, whoa. Yeah. Because it is that long obedience of just coming in and communing with your father. And it's also a way to just in the moment help people. I did an event a couple of days ago, a men's event.

And part of that was my testimony. And the guy came up, I mean, he's just, he's weeping. And he said, how do I do it? you know, and you're in a line and people and, you know, but what do you do in that moment? I said, well, I know how I did it. Let's pray about how you're going to do it. And we just stopped right there.

And the line stopped and everything stopped. That's awesome. And in that moment, our prayer was that. And when it was over, you know, he's crying. He was like, I'm going to do it. And I was like, I know you are. But this is where you start. You have to continue this conversation with the Almighty.

And in a moment like that, you only have a minute sometimes with people. But prayer is always an open door. for them to find what's been the response. I mean, you've got this out there with the song and the book. Yeah, I think it's been incredible. The biggest response that I can point to is every night at our concerts, we have a prayer wall out in the lobby, and we give people an opportunity to write down at least one thing they're praying for.

And let me just tell you that by the end of every single night, that wall is filled with hundreds and hundreds of very real needs. And some nights I'll bring that prayer wall on stage before the end of the end of the day. the night and I'll just take some time and I'll read them out and we'll just stop and pray for each person but I mean the thing about it is sometimes in Christian music like you kind of wonder am I preaching to the choir or am I like you know am I keeping the found or am I reaching the lost but the thing that I've learned with every prayer tag that I read is like man the church is just filled with lost and hurting and broken people but they're there in the hopes that there really is a God who can

change their life and they're facing some of the most real battles you can face. And I think that's why it's important for us to talk about, like when you talk about laughing about your childhood and things like that, like people need to know they're not the only one who have this chapter in their story that the devil's made them think is worthless. And so I think it's important for people to know, hey, my prayer need matters and I'm going to put it on this wall. And in doing that, I'm choosing to surrender it to God. And so that's been really powerful just to see people go, all right, I'm going to, I'm going to bow my head one more time. I'm going to put this need on the wall. And I'm going to trust it. I'm going to trust my.

prodigal to God again. I'm going to trust this addiction. I'm battling again. I'm going to just dare to believe that God hears me when I call on his name. Well, even in the practical ways of what we do, because I was going to skim the book, because it's a long book. And I got it yesterday. I wound up reading the whole thing because I went to, I did. I did. Yeah, there's a, there's a couple of little points I want to really focus on. But what I was going to say, just the story with what we do, what I figured out, because in my childhood, I was real shy, just, I think, because of everything that was going on. Everybody responds differently. I'll turn into a prodigal. I just turned into a kind of lone wolf, I guess. But then here we go. I give my life to Jesus. I try to do it quietly

for a couple of years. And this process goes on where I realize I'm not going to be able to do this quietly. So I'm going to have to get over this problem. But what I noticed is, As the crowd's got bigger and you go out, it's kind of a lonely thing we do, especially at least you have a band, you know, somebody you talk to. I'm a one man. I mean, I have a team of people with me, but they're all doing stuff. They're all thinking about me and a half. Are these guys traveling?

We do the podcast, but I'm saying about when you're traveling and speaking. When I try, get in front of thousands of people and you're even doing a meet and greet, but it's all superficial. And what I realize is it's kind of a lonely. You're never really with anybody. No, you're right. Everybody's trying to get you to do something. So I developed, I mean, I wish I'd have read this book a lot earlier

because I would have gone down this road because I realized, and there was a verse you had in the verse in your book, talking about come near to God and he'll come near to you. So with everybody so far, I realize I need to pray during this process and make this about what really matters. I'm out here representing God as a redeemed person. And so it became a thing. It's really where my prayer life started to improve because every time I got an event,

I started earlier and earlier and not just right before I get up and speak, Lord be with me. It just became more of a thing. And I thought, it's so amazing how close. that I felt, even to a point where I shared the store on a podcast, one time when I was leaving the arena, I was having a conversation with God, but I was audibly saying it because I wasn't thinking about it. But I was like, I think that went well, Lord, you really, you know,

I just felt good about it. But then I looked up and there were people staring at me because here's a guy talking to himself, walking through the parking. What's wrong with this man? And I was like, I'm just praying. I love that, which is exactly what I said. Yeah. Because it made me realize in that it kept me in the right perspective.

I love that. You know, this is, this is, I'm doing this for the Lord God Almighty and how good he is. It's not about me. Yeah. And so it was, it was inspiring to read it because I really got that out of it. It is more of a conversation that you're, he's not far. I don't know. No.

We tend to think that. He's way off. This might get to him, maybe. And if it does, you know, I'm not sure he'll do anything about it. And it's just the wrong way to look at it. No, I mean, just the thought of like the story of, the entire story of scripture is like the story of a God who pursues us. And I think about the old hymn, prone to wander, Lord, I feel it, prone to leave the God I love. Those lines, every time I've sung that in church, I'm like, gosh, it just hits me.

Like, that's me. And I heard somebody say once, like, if you ever feel a distance between you and God, God's not the reason for that. distance. It's you and me. We're the ones who wandered. And I was listening to one of your previous podcast about being good enough. And there's a song that I had on the radio this past year that's like, it literally says, I used to think grace was a ladder that every sinner had to climb. If only I could just do better, that I could earn it over time. Tried to work my way to good. Trouble is I never could. But then you showed me what grace is all about. And I think that's the, we tend to feel this distance because every mistake is like another mile between us and God. But then when you read through

scripture about a God who would stop at nothing to find us, and then that reminder in James, if you draw near to God, he will draw near to it. If you lean into him, he's leaning in to hear the sign of this child's voice. And so the grace in that message is a message that I've needed over and over again in my life. And then the reminder is you're in front of people all the time. It's like, I got to stay close to God because I feel when I, if I feel that distance, I know this crowd in front of me is probably wondering the same thing. And so what does it look like for me and you and all of us to demonstrate what it looks like to have just a closer walk with thee?

Right? Yeah. I think about that. And I'm thankful for people like my mom and my dad who've shown me what that looks like above all else. They're not chasing fame. They're not chasing celebrity or a hit song. My mom and my dad, they just are chasing a closer walk with Jesus.

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There was a guy who, you know how you can customize Coca-Cola cans? And he went on and tried to make a can that said Jesus is king, and Coca-Cola flagged it and wouldn't let him do it. So he typed in Allah as king, and they let him create it. And then he typed in, like, Satan is king, and they let him do it. And then he went back and did Jesus's king, and they kept flagging it. You You know what I mean? But I wrote a song called Jesus is King. And on the surface, it looks like a bold statement of faith, like I'm unashamed. And it is. But it's inspired by the thought of, like, who's on the throne. And why is my daily tendency? I think my prayer life tends to mirror how I've decided that I'm going to be the one on the throne of my life. And that's something

that I feel like convicted about daily, because I want to control the outcomes. I want to control the crazy world around me. And that's when I realize I've placed myself on the throne. And I've learned enough about my life to know I don't make a good king. Yeah. And so I want to surrender my life to a higher power. And I think so much of why this world rejects Jesus being king is because this whole world is about self-empowerment, not giving the power away to something else.

And so I think as Christians, we look different and we should look different. When we're choosing surrender, the world sees surrender is a sign of weakness, but we know that surrender to Jesus is where the true strength is found in our lives. That's why the phrase in the Lord's Prayer, thy kingdom come, that will be done where? On earth, just like it is in heaven. And one of the reasons why we believe that the kingdom of God is here now, to his point about the not yet now, it's not yet fully consummated. I mean, there's pain here. There's a lot of, I mean, your brother's maybe still an addiction. We lost our first cousin to addiction.

We've had, I mean, it's painful here. It's not fully consummated, but if Jesus is king now, then he does have a dominion that he reigns over. That's right. And so, like, we believe the reason why the kingdom is here is because the king has been inaugurated. The king has been crowned with glory and honor. That's right.

You know, he's appeared before the ancient of days. He's received an everlasting kingdom that can never be shaken nor destroyed. And that's the hope, right? That's exactly the hope. And we know scripture promises that every knee will bow. It hasn't, but it will. And every tongue will confess, right? We know that that day's coming.

So what is our role here in the meantime? What is our role? Our role is to demonstrate lives, surrender to Jesus, changed by His grace, and learning, and then go and make it in heaven as crowded as possible because we look different. Like what's the scripture where they talk about the disciples and said they could tell these men had been with Jesus.

Like, I want that to be said of me. You know what that's like. When I spend time with you guys, I'm like, okay, I know these guys have been with Jesus. And I hope that's said of me. You know what I mean? And I don't want to fake that. I don't want to, because like you said about our public speaking,

like we can put on a performance and make people go, oh, man, they said all the right things. They quoted all the right scriptures. But the Lord knows the truth and the true condition of our hearts. And I've learned throughout my life, it is possible to perform with the best of them, but your heart can still be in critical condition. I've been doing a bit in my speeches

because the only musical instrument I'm good at is a duck call, which is something. It gets their attention. But I've been singing a song, and it's a famous song, Frank Sinatra. I did it my way, and I sing it. Because it's a pretty easy song to say. I'm not sure how I'm sounding.

I don't want to ever listen to it. Well, let's find it on YouTube. We're going to find it. Oh, I just say, I did in my way. That's pretty good. And so then I ask, I say, how's that working for you?

And it just, the crowd, because I'm like, we sing this at funerals. We, this is what we're going with. Gosh, yeah. Just one question, how's it working for you? And this, I'm like, there's a better way. And that's why I got over my fear of how I sound, because I thought, I think this will make people think,

we've held this song up, this is awesome. No, it's not awesome when you look at your life in the moment and consider God's plan. The judge does his best singing in one like that. Just one verse, he used to, also he and dad used to do the first two words of the Canadian National Anthem. Oh, Canada. To start every duck season because ducks come from Canada.

So we would always pay homage to, and so it would remove the hats. Oh, Canada. Well, it went worse than that. We would kill the first ducks, and you can tell a Canadian-born duck from an American-born duck. What's the difference? They're just bigger, more vibrant colors. And several times we would look at each other, read our minds and say, Oh, Canada.

My devil would start rubbing this out. They're here, boys, they're here. that's awesome so good I heard they're drying up the wetlands or something I read yeah there's some worry I'm looking into it

yeah way he's been getting a whole another I'm looking into it that made it sound like he's calling the powers that be who is in control over there but I feel like

if it's going to affect his duck hunt I do think that somehow he's going you have a couple cell phone numbers he's going to become a lobbyist yeah well when you look at a duck talking about prayer life and you think about why are they here my dad used to do a big bit about

that he's like why's a duck here there's only two things you can do you can look at them or you can eat them and his point was pointing that back to the creator so because it because it always fascinated me in my dad's prayers he would audibly thank god for sending us the ducks these gifts from above that we can eat as our family eat together at you know with a family. But I like that he was even realizing the subtleties of life that ultimately this is a gift from God. And we should thank, you know, thank God for our daily bread. Yeah. In our case, it's our daily ducks. But same concept. Well, I got, you know, this is, of all the anthems I thought I might hear on this podcast, I wasn't expecting to hear old Canada.

You never know. We've given you some work today. Your challenge. Yeah. I got it. I got an song popping in my head right now. I really think. If you get a Canada in that, and the name of Jesus. Because I trust you, Matthew, after we've talked now. So you'll send me in my check.

But for the idea. I'm also, I asked Ann about the who am I, when Moses said, Who am I? And God responded, I am who. I am who I am. You know, and I was like,

there needs to be a song about that. Who am I? I am who. Can we not do one? song about that? The last time I did this idea, I got seven or eight versions, but they weren't at the Matthew

West level. So I was like, well, keep working. I'll respond and keep working. We are out of time, though, but where can folks pick this up at? Amazon, what's the best place? Yeah, probably. And Jesus' King is coming out in September 25th. Yeah, September 25th,

Jesus is King. Every song on the album fills in the blank. Jesus is and every song is another just descriptor of the character of Jesus and the reason why he belongs on the throne of our lives. And again, it's just messages and reminders that I need. Although the record's coming out September 25th, so if I'm going to go write this eager song, I'm going to have to. You might slip it in.

But I love this idea. The only thing I, as you're talking, I'm like, eager, what rhymes with eager? And I'm like, night moves by Bob Seeger. Sunday's coming, and I'm feeling eager. I don't mind it being funny. Working on a night moves, right? Bob Seeger when he was traveling down the highway and he saw that Hulk

and one of the greatest rock and roll songs of all time. But he saw God's creation and he said, I'm going to give it one more try and he turned it car around. Roll me away, I think. Roll me away, won't you roll me away? Yeah, that's about Jesus. We need that vibe.

Well, just like I proved with Morgan Wall, you can turn anything. into a song about Jesus. Jesus is king, Matthew. I mean, that's the thing. Last night we let the Bible talk. I think your whole career led to that. And look, I noticed you've had 38 number one songs

that you've been a part of. We buried the lead here. And you've written nine books the Lord is used in you. That's just 38 good ones, but I've written thousands. That's the thing about music. I mean, you think about, I'm a huge baseball fan. You think about, like, a baseball player, if they get a hit three times out of ten at bats,

they're in the Hall of Fame. and like music industries like that like your batting average but you just got to do it like oh 91 it's like you just keep going it's like jesus rabbit holes you know you just keep going seven out of ten you might get a rabbit but we used to have a cricket button that they use for me when I used big words that they call they called they multi-salabic words you use some words on the podcast that I listened to that I was like I got to look that word up thank you thank you for saying But you also said you liked the deep study. You were supposed to give us a plug for that.

I did. I will say when I was listening through to the podcast about the title caught my attention because of my song, Good, was about being good enough. And I was like, okay, these, I don't know what I was thinking. I was like, oh, this is going to be just kind of goofing around. And then as I started listening through to the podcast, I was like, these guys are going deep. And I need that.

And I think as Christians, we can settle for a surface level of understanding of scripture. I've done that so many times. It's like, oh, I'm just going to do my quick little reading today, but not really understand the history of the scripture, the why of the scripture, what it's really about. So I loved that you guys were unpacking it. I wouldn't call it a rabbit hole. I would call it deeper understanding.

So let your producer hear that today. We need to do a joint venture here. But first, we got to have you. We're so glad that you came out. I'm happy to be the man before whatever man you bring on. The guy coming on next is awesome. Thanks for warming him up. Oh, I'm happy to do it.

Thank you guys. That's funny. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.